GF & BF Spooning. GF cries rape 7 years later. Is it really rape?

hyperrreal · 2014-09-29T18:59:18+00:00

I dislike when stuff like this get posted to TRP or even reddit in general, because we have no way of knowing what really happened.

Like this could be rape, or it could be an immature person rationalizing regret after sex. So much of it depends on the context and how accurate her account is, and we have no access to either.

AshleyYakeley · 2014-09-29T18:58:35+00:00

yes (at least under British law), because she did not give consent, and his belief that she gave consent was unreasonable.

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2014-09-29T20:23:02+00:00

Er, there's a bit more than spooning being described OP.

GridReXX · 2014-09-29T20:44:47+00:00

Whatever that was, it was uncomfortable.

Here's the thing.

I've hooked up with a guy before where that was his approach. The difference is I enthusiastically consented. Whether via moaning or turning around to kiss him or a host of other things implying I was okay with/enjoying what was happening.

Someone laying there like a deer in headlights is not an invitation to continue. Guys have to remember being penetrated is a very vulnerable experience. Don't be an obtuse dick. Pun intended. If someone goes tense and deadfish, this is not an invitation to continue. Particularly, particularly if this is the first time you're doing it with said person. I'm glad I'm reading things like this, so that if I ever have a son I can teach him to do better.

Regardless of what happened, the OP seems fairly traumatized by the situation.

Doldenberg · 2014-09-29T21:11:55+00:00

Lets boil this down to the core of it:

If a man forcefully, digitally penetrates a womans vagina without her consent; and then inserts his penis afterwards, again, without having obtained her consent, is that rape?

Yes. Yes, it is. That's the exact fucking definition of rape. What do we even have to discuss here? Where the hell do you think this wasn't rape?

The fact that they were boyfriend and girlfriend (sort of)?

The fact that they slept in the same house and bed?

The fact that they spooned?

The fact that he didn't know that she didn't consent? First, ignorantia juris non excusat, anyone? Second, of course he knew he hadn't obtained consent, simply because he hadn't. The only case where you don't know that you didn't ask for something is a case of serious amnesia.

The fact that she didn't say no? In which strange world do you ask whether you can do a thing AFTER you have done it (or don't do at all and just wait for the other to protest). You wouldn't want me running around sticking dildos up your ass and only removing them when you ask me to. You would want me to ask "Hey, can I stick that dildo up your ass? No? Kthxbye.", so why is it ridiculous when the dildo is an actual penis and a woman wants to be asked before getting it stuck into her?

Will you throw the "it might not have actually happened that way"-card? Do I have to remind you that the initial question was "Is THIS EXAMPLE really rape", no matter whether it has happened or not?

AshleyYakeley · 2014-09-29T19:49:43+00:00

I'm a little disappointed by the folks here, many of whom I have upvoted in the past, claiming it was not rape even if she is telling the truth.

By default, there is no consent.

Can I touch your vulva? Can I slap your face? Can I stick it in your butt? Can I spank your ass? Can I whip you? Can I stick needles in your flesh? Can I taser your genitals?

Yes. Yes, I can. I can do any and all of these things, legally, and it is not a crime, provided I get your consent first.

Aerobus · 2014-09-29T19:26:41+00:00

If her story is 100% accurate then yeah, that's rape. No consent was given on her part.
I think that time does decrease the validity of these claims. Our memories are not as good as we think they are. We embellish certain details and forget other ones. One study implied that Bugs Bunny is at Disneyland and those subjects were more likely to remember actually meeting him while at Disneyland, even though that's impossible. I doubt she's deliberately lying or has any malicious intent, it's quite possible that she was reading stories about rape, recalled her past experiences, and then inserted new information into those old memories. It's really impossible to tell which is one reason why there's a statue of limitations on these things.

[deleted] · 2014-09-29T19:47:06+00:00

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17b29a · 2014-09-29T19:39:27+00:00

Yes. She froze the hell up and cut communication. If a girl freezes the hell up and stops talking and you don't pick that up as a SIGN that she's not into it, you need to get your head checked.

Screwing somebody who froze up is more along the lines of a specific fetish or sexual preference. It's not what I'd call natural.

BUT, that's not to say we're not in a shade of grey here. She kept dating the guy. So there is an indication that neither party was exactly aware that this was rape; it was more like "bad sex" and "very poor communication." The act was not accompanied with malicious intent, hitting, or bruising. We're kind of in a no-fault zone due to mutual ignorance.

In better educated circles, that guy's maneuver is akin to stealing. He cheated his way into getting pussy. That's NOT how you do it. So yes, you can have communication levels so damn poor that you're in rape territory.

powerkick · 2014-09-30T00:00:05+00:00

he slid his fingers in my vagina (we'd never even played around with handjobs/oral at all before this). My brain kind of panicked and froze, and I just froze physically. He said some things like "oh yeah, you're ready" and then his penis was in me and he just started fucking me while I laid there frozen.

You forgot a pretty important part there. Yeah, it was rape. If she were to prosecute now, there really wouldn't be any evidence and I'm not sure where the case would go, but they hadn't done anything sexual at the time and she definitely didn't seem into it. Yeah, it was rape.

babyguineapig · 2014-09-30T01:51:50+00:00

I believe that it's most likely rape. The burden of proof in a 10yo incident, with no witnesses or physical evidence is very unlikely to be realized though. She'd never get a conviction.

TheScamr · 2014-09-29T20:58:37+00:00

It seems that sex was not discussed prior in the relationship and she froze, which is a normal response to something so unexpected to her. Consent was absent and so that was a sexual assault. In most states in the US it would be in the first or second degrees as many states have dropped the legal term of rape.

The follow up question does the dude have a rapist mentality? Was he all about power and control? Did he intentionally pick an inexperienced, quiet (maybe shy) girl and take advantage of her?

Or was he just some young dumb ass who assumed that his girlfriend was ready when she was not? We cannot tell over the internet, even knowing he was jealous later in the relationship.

Thle length of time is inconsequential. I work as a youth counselor and have counselled both juvenile sex offenders and their female victims of sexual assault. Lots of trauma on both sides. People can put trauma aside for years until they are ready to deal with it, and everyone deals with it differently. I know women who have not dealt with it until they were in their 30 or 40s, except for abusing drugs.

17b29a · 2014-09-29T18:51:15+00:00

yes 2. no

twox suks

fchs · 2014-09-29T19:49:04+00:00

What I can't stand on female oriented subs is the immediate suspension of disbelief. No matter how much someone's post resembles a creative writing exercise, no matter how dubious the story, it's instant belief and yo go girl advice and cheerless and validation

moggymojo · 2014-09-29T21:15:35+00:00

If it went down as she says, legally, Yes. Which is crappy because I don't believe the guy in question had any idea he was 'raping' someone.

7 years later.... I think that indicates a LOT of processing the event, and that potentially means that over time it has become rather distorted.

From what she has said it is clear that she felt bad/gross afterwards and it is entirely possible that she has replayed that night over and over so often trying to make it fit with feeling bad that it has become distorted.

Memories happen in the remembering, so there is no such thing as objective memory clearly replaying the facts as they happened. The more time between the event and the claim the more time she has had to re-remember the event.

So I have a harder time just accepting it as stated when there is a 7 year lapse.

Now, personally I wouldn't call this situation rape.

I have been in this situation (or parallel situations) a couple of times in life because I CANNOT say 'no'. It is a throw back to being extensively sexually abused as a young child; if someone does something sexual to me that I don't like I basically play dead, disassociate and wait for it to be over.

It is a shitty defense mechanism as an adult because there are times when just clearly saying 'hey! don't do that!' would have helped, but I physically can NOT do that.

Because I know that I can't physically say no in the moment, I never consider any of these encounters to be rape.

I consider the guys to be jerks for enthusiastically pounding someone who has gone rigid, silent and thousand yard stare... but I don't consider it rape.

I consider it HORRENDOUS sex, horrendous communication and an appalling attitude towards other people, but I don't consider it rape.

ms_kittyfantastico · 2014-09-29T19:09:49+00:00

Is this example really rape?

If it happened according to the way she said it did, then yes. I would define it as such.

[time]

From my experience, I believe someone equally whether it happened a week ago or ten years ago. The brain has a way of rationalizing things when someone takes non-consensual control of your body, trying to make it all seem okay. An hour, a week, or even years later, you might be able to process what actually happened.

crying rape

Please don't use this phrase as you are implying a cry-wolf situation for all.

Note: let's assume her retelling of the story is true.

Edit: more words.

SirNemesis · 2014-09-29T19:25:22+00:00

No
Statistically speaking, yes, if she waited for a long time, she is more likely to be seeking attention or revenge, but I wouldn't rule out something as rape simply because the victim took a while to realize it was rape or to get the guts to talk about it.

Aerobus · 2014-09-29T18:45:26+00:00

My thoughts:

No. She never said no.
It's very hard to find this example, and others, legitimate because the girl waited 7 years. As /u/tuxity puts it,

If you are really raped you would know.

No "I guess I got raped, pls give attention" 7 years later.

I think this woman is doing it for the attention.

[deleted] · 2014-09-29T19:20:13+00:00

[permanently deleted]

VarsitySlutTeamCpt · 2014-09-30T04:34:03+00:00

Fuck man escalating during cuddling with someone you know is rape now? Shiittttt. By the way this chick is a fucking bum, she couldn't say no and now she cries rape. Fuck off with that attention whoring shit.

Tombstone31 · 2014-09-29T23:06:56+00:00

Question for the people who are saying yes, this is rape:

What would you do in the guy's situation? Ask "can I finger you?" What if the woman says yes, but "did it because she was nervous"?

If you're honest, 100% of the people ITT would have/have committed sexual assault, under this understanding. Married woman gropes her husband without asking for consent? Welp, send her to jail, she's a sex offender.

[deleted] · 2014-09-30T11:58:29+00:00

Wasn't he a virgin? In that case you can't expect him to notice it in the 20 second spawn.

Guess he might've been circumcised so he'll probably last longer? In that case disregard the above.

Title	GF & BF Spooning. GF cries rape 7 years later. Is it really rape?
Author	Aerobus
Upvotes	3
Comments	114
Date	September 29, 2014 6:43 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/2ht8gx/gf_bf_spooning_gf_cries_rape_7_years_later_is_it/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/gf-bf-spooning-gf-cries-rape-7-years-later-is-it.284736 https://theredarchive.com/post/284736