Why is it that abuse victims tend to be really good at shit tests and maintaining frame?

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October 8, 2019
146 upvotes

It's literally on a god-like level. I'm thinking it's probably because they need to avoid showing any emotion so they wouldn't be hurt by their abusers, so they developed mechanisms to de-escalate situations and maintain their role. What I don't understand is how they can be so good at it. Is this something all abuse victims have?

Someone I know is literally the king at this and though he looks weak before you approach him, as soon as he interacts with anyone, it's like that person is always trapped in his web. I've seen tons of situations where girls go to him expecting him to be one way or to bend to them, then literally after a brief interaction they end up worshiping him and literally begging for attention and willing to do anything. Seeing that literally changed my view on a lot of things. He doesn't have social status or anything either and he doesn't care to stand out or fit in. He also doesn't lift. If you guys are into labels, he'd be something like a sigma, with a high EQ. I remember he showed me this hot party girl who was literally BEGGING him have to sex, but he curved her because he said that his intuition gave him red flags about her.


Post Information
Title Why is it that abuse victims tend to be really good at shit tests and maintaining frame?
Author We_Broke_Up
Upvotes 146
Comments 104
Date 08 October 2019 07:12 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit askTRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/289307
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/asktrp/comments/dewjoa/why_is_it_that_abuse_victims_tend_to_be_really/
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Red Pill terms found in post:
sigma maleframeshit testlift
Comments

[–]ArnoldT1000192 points193 points  (9 children) | Copy

Hard times create strong men.

A so called “sigma” is a man who does not need acceptance or temporary validation. His priorities come first.

This is who your friend is. The reason why he is this way is because he learned through hard times who he is and what his priorities are.

Basically, his foundations are rock solid. You need to experience adversity to develop this mindset.

[–]thrwy7547934 points35 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is exactly it.

There's an interesting article on resiliency in the face of criticism that kind of ties into this. Grenny talks about his work with The Other Side Academy (TOSA) in Salt Lake City, Utah, where poverty stricken individuals with criminal backgrounds live in a self-reliant community, men and women both. It's noted that twice a week, students engage in "games" consisting of 2 hours of relentless, raw feedback:

It can be loud. Vocabulary is sometimes raw and colorful. And a single student can be the focus of relentless attention for 20-25 minutes from as many as two dozen colleagues. Peers present you with evidence that you are dishonest, manipulative, lazy, selfish, or mean. There is little emphasis placed on diplomatic delivery of the message. Instead, they focus on helping the individual learn to "take their game."

The premise is that criticism irrespective of what it may be, or how it's delivered should be welcomed, and it's important to learn to take the truth from the feedback (if any), and incorporate that into improving your life. He notes that "if the truth is going to hurt you, it is more likely to do greater damage when you don’t know it than when you do. So, learning it is always beneficial."

Having the ability to remove the fluff, and absorb the facts from what assholes may be telling you, even in the toughest situations allows you to feel safe instead of becoming defensive and lashing out, and protects your self-worth.

[–]BatsNightmares12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

This, had the toughest times too and can relate.

[–]Mescalean5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Best advise ive been given is “you only get stronger when you start taking shit away from yourself”

[–]T-P-T-W-P4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

My grandfather was this way. My generally unaware family even characterized him as a sigma. He began poor and gradually amassed some wealth through continuous hard work, never really a “big break” of any significance. The lifelong grind made him staunch in his values and what various things meant to him, many of them “alpha” and some of them not. Your conclusions on life may be right or wrong (all subjective), but it seems to me that the longer you’re in the belly of any given beast, the less questioning of everything you do.

[–]InstigatingDrunk1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

or completely break and end up a failure.. i'm teetering and need to figure out my priorities.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (3 children) | Copy

There's nothing strong about being an unfeeling block of ice. Talking from experience. It's the sort of thing immature impressionable teenage boys believe.

[–]ArnoldT10006 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Who said anything about unfeeling? Read up on stoicism.

[–]electricspresident0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is not about feelings. It's about reactions. When shits happening to you, how do you take it. If you were the same state as you were before then you held your frame.

The seeking to learn mindset has drawbacks though, you can end up losing frame or perceived as weak on the other hand its delusional confidence like Trump but that has destructive tendencies.

The balance between these 2 is an unshakeable confidence with the willingness to take outside feedback into consideration.

Easier said than done ofcourse

[–]afterthe_fapocalypse-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

here's a tampon

[–]MR_SKINNYPENIS6976 points77 points  (19 children) | Copy

Conditioning. Abuse makes you tougher and more resilient to abuse. Shit tests are a form of abuse.

I was raised by an alcoholic single mother with drug problems. When I was a shy teenager playing World of Warcraft (14 - 18, right up until I went to university) she'd come home every single night from work and just load off all her problems on to me by finding a reason why I'd done something wrong (usually to do with cleaning) and scream her head off at me for it for a few hours until she'd relaxed enough by getting drunk. It was fucking hell, I can tell you. She'd follow me around the house if I tried to get away from her, and I lived in a remote area so there wasn't anywhere to go except onto the road outside. I never shouted back because I learned very quickly that the quickest way for her to calm down was to not escalate and just let her shout and drink until she stopped. Any response I gave would stoke the fire, so I just stonewalled. Weekends were my only relief because she was never stressed from work and could just drink and take drugs instead of getting worked up then coming home to scream at me.

I'm under no delusions though: my abuse was very mild compared to some horror stories out there, but I can tell you that the nightly screaming and harrassment knowing I had no escape was fucking awful. I never initiated, I never gave cause for it, and yet I had years of nightly shit from a sad and depressed woman high on booze and coke.

Now as a man I'm incredibly resilient to women giving me a hard time. I am a steel wall. I would never wish my abuse on anyone but it made me incredibly good at just stonewalling, holding frame, and doing my own thing. Some would imagine that I'd end up just putting up with shit from a woman, but instead I actually have zero tolerance for it as I never, NEVER want to go through that again. The moment a woman starts acting like my mother did she's history.

I also keep a spotless apartment because I was conditioned to feel like any dirt or untidyness would lead to abuse.

[–]burnertaliburner18 points19 points  (0 children) | Copy

I had a similar experience. I have similar compulsions like cleaning too. Emotional unavailability is a strong tool if channel correctly. Best to get something out of all the shit.

[–]Warren_Bateman7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think this is why this and the main sub matter. There are no support groups for young men who are abused by women growing up, so they lead broken lives until they: a) die, b) hurt people, c) hurt people and then die, or d) find some way to heal themselves.

I imagine option “d” makes up <5% of the abused male population.

To correct one thing - you may not have had it as bad as some, but that is still an abhorrent way to grow up. It sounds like you’ve mostly moved on, but if you need to talk, pm me.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy

Sounds like my mother only she's a covert narcissist not an alcoholic. Ironically she acts as if she's afraid of booze and never drinks (I think my grandfather may have been an alcoholic). Funny how these things work.

[–]send_it_for_the_boys11 points12 points  (2 children) | Copy

Same, when I stone wall my mother then she pulls the “all my kids hate me, you hate me soo much I’ve done everything for you” and it never ends I’ve learned to wear headphones and turn the music up loud and walk out.

[–]MR_SKINNYPENIS693 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Sounds like personality disorder.

[–]PandaLitter-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

Him or the mom?

[–]AlphaBinomialDistrib3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

In your opinion, when you are dealing with gaslighting and girls trying to purposely under your skin, do you think it's best to stonewall or yell back and have boundaries?

[–]MR_SKINNYPENIS699 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy

I can't say what would work for you but I never yell back. I just tell them calmly and rationally they're behaving in an unacceptable way and then I exit the situation.

If they're at my place I ask them to leave. If they refuse, I press it over and over and tell them they have to leave repeatedly. I don't get drawn into arguing whatever point they're trying to make.

I make it clear that if they had behaved like an adult and respected me enough not to lose their temper and give me abuse then I would have been happy to discuss any issue, but since they couldn't do that I don't want anything to do with them. Then I soft or hard next depending on the severity of the offense.

You cannot argue or reason with an angry woman. Never even try. You could provide the most flawless and genius logic and say it perfectly and be the kindest and most reasonable guy in the world and she'll ignore it and twist in another direction to try and beat you. Just exit and do something else.

[–]Channel_oreo4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

my wife is a nice person but acts like every other women when she freaks out or get angry. I stone wall her every time she behaves like this (once or twice a month). She goes to her room crying every time. LMAO.

[–]agjrpsl0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is gold guys. Never escalate a situation with an angry woman. Either you ask them to leave or you leave. This will also keep you from getting a domestic violence charge. Do not touch her in anyway.

[–]SonnyFFC6 points7 points  (7 children) | Copy

Sounds like you’re carrying a lot, have you considered talking to a therapist?

[–]MR_SKINNYPENIS6914 points15 points  (6 children) | Copy

You may find this hard to believe because it's kind of morbidly comical but my parents are both therapists lol.

My mother worked on a psychiatric ward and my father had patients come visit him (but wanted nothing to do with his son).

So I have somewhat of an aversion to therapists. I'd feel like I was going to see my parents. If it was a male therapist I'd feel like it's my dad; a female therapist, my mother.

[–]i-am-the-prize16 points17 points  (2 children) | Copy

you win "fucked up household of the week" for sure. glad you made it out and found RP.

[–]MR_SKINNYPENIS699 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

I dunno man, another guy in this thread said his step dad gave him facial scarring.

Like I said before, the abuse and neglect I endured was terrible for me but nothing compared to what some other people went through.

BTW, username checks out. Are you my prize? No homo

[–]i-am-the-prize0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I dunno man, another guy in this thread said his step dad gave him facial scarring.

Yeah, I saw that. He would win "fucked up household of the year" - you got the week only... all your scars are on the inside... ;)

[–]mr4kino[🍰] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

People think therapists = help. What they don't understand is that it is a position of "power". Narc typically love this.

[–]SonnyFFC1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Why don’t you try a gender neutral therapist then? Jokes aside, I started counselling for childhood trauma and it has helped me to understand things a lot better, rather than push it down and let it constantly linger being able to release has made my life a lot easier. Felt like a pair of tangled headphones getting untangled when I actually spoke about it. I know you don’t like the thought of it because of your parents but you hold that shit in it’s gonna bring you down.

[–]afterthe_fapocalypse0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

you'd get over that feeling pretty quick in the face of a good therapist

[–]Mister_Lymon_Zerga0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I also keep a spotless apartment because I was conditioned to feel like any dirt or untidyness would lead to abuse.

Shit. I wondered why my level of cleanliness was so much higher than everyone else's I've met. I can't get anything meaningful done before my apartment is clean.

[–]jm5126 points27 points  (11 children) | Copy

ime, long term abuse victims lose any concept of 'equal'. To them, a person is either a victim or an abuser, no half measures.

Sweet girl, do anything for you blah blah. Time passes and the expected abuse doesn't come her way. That's when she flips and becomes the abuser.

Happens with men too. Long time abused husband gets dumped, cries for his abuser. Recovers, gets a gf. She is not abusive. He becomes abusive towards her and treats her with contempt.

[–]Quo21021 points22 points  (6 children) | Copy

What the fuck.

This is the reason I feel disgust when people treat me with love?

Single mother raised me. Controllig, histrionic+borderline+anxious. About 20 years of abuse, i'm currently with a therapist but havent dicussed this

[–]Garathon16 points17 points  (3 children) | Copy

Why the fuck are you seeing a therapist if you haven't discussed that? That's like the biggest fucking issue you have. It's a complete waste if time if you don't explore it.

[–]Quo2100 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Far from the biggest issue.

Still get a need to laugh maniacally when I see a woman cry or pretty much have 0 empathy towards anything that's not close kin

That one is not up in the list yet lmao. Single mothers can fuck up badly

[–]Garathon4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

You don't think those issues are caused by the one you mentioned initially. That's like the root cause.

Be a man, be brave and work it through with them.

[–]Quo2100 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Well thanks, I'll have to bring it up in one of the next chances... Maybe it has more weight than I think, I don't know tbh

[–]mr4kino[🍰] -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

Therapist... I would advise reading lots of books about personality disorder. That would probably be more helpful than your current therapist.

[–]Quo2100 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

any recommendation?

[–]We_Broke_Up[S] 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

Damn, I noticed something interesting with the friend I mentioned in the post where in the beginning of our friendship I was distant and overall a shitty person/friend, and they were always reaching out to me, but then from being around them I changed as a person became more empathetic and vulnerable as I matured as a person, and then this put them in an uncomfortable position where they were still being empathetic, but they were acting more rude and distant because they were no longer in that "caring/carer" position. We eventually got in an argument and we agreed to chill out on the friendship for a bit.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

See, he's not all that strong. Just controlling.

[–]We_Broke_Up[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes and no. It's hard to put forth an entire friendship through a few sentences. We all have our issues and he had to deal with a lot of my bullshit too. There's things he's stubborn about, and things I'm stubborn about. I get wary when someone tries to put people/relationships into boxes. I'm not trying to romanticize his situation. It's more of an appreciation for one aspect that he's very skilled at and that I've used as an example for my post. Even in this reply, I was mentioning one pattern and trying to find a correlation. There's different types of control. Someone could be controlling when it comes to creative topics because they think they're more qualified. Someone can be controlling when it comes to being nice and making covert contracts (something I did in the past). And I'd say on both ends there's been times where someone was in the wrong. Either way, life is a game of power. All relationships are like that in one way or another. As long as both sides have self-respect and boundaries aren't crossed.

[–]Niocs0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Why are you using "they/them"? It's pretty confusing and annoying

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy

Abuse victims train themselves to not show or even feel any feelings. It's easier. He's still trapped in that loop and those women are stupid enough to think rather than trauma he's really some superhuman apex alpha and are trying to figure out his secret. He's smart enough not to reveal it (even if it's obvious) because then they'd lose interest. He never gives in to them and that keeps them chasing.

A bit like a women who never gives any man sex or does but not the intimate type, just the kinky stuff. They keep chasing to domesticate her because they think she is some sort of super strong super independent person who doesn't need anyone and they want some of that. Only she isn't.

[–]We_Broke_Up[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

This is a great perspective. In this scenario though, I'd have to disagree with you. He's able to be really vulnerable and he regularly shares how he feels. I have a suspicion that he's an empath. He's very self-aware of his emotions from my talks with him, and I'd say the one negative trait he developed is that he's a bit of a fixer. He likes fixing peoples' problems. It seems like the assertiveness he has developed afterwards. He's also pretty driven and independent. But I'll admit, it's hard to get a read on his facial expressions. He has them controlled down to a T.

[–]ntkstudy4429 points30 points  (10 children) | Copy

I grew up in a very violent household. I have scars on my face like the joker bc my mom’s boyfriend thought it would be “funny” to give me PK’s and cut a smile into me bc I wouldn’t stop crying when I was 8.

Let me know if you need any more info about why I don’t get worried about female opinions.

Hope this answers your question

[–]Atheist_Utopia22 points23 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm sorry to hear that, that's extremely fucked up.

[–]mr4kino[🍰] 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Man.... sorry to hear that.... That's batsh*t crazy.
That's a psychopath household.

[–]StannisBaratheon9414 points15 points  (7 children) | Copy

Dude...

How haven’t you tried to find that man and kill him?

[–]ntkstudy4410 points11 points  (6 children) | Copy

I actually resented my mom a lot once I grew up and understood all of it. There were a lot of dudes coming by during that time, all I know is his name was Danny and my Mother claimed she wasn’t conscious when it happened.

Now she’s a born again Christian who pretty much denies all of her past, which is like adding fuel to the flame. I don’t care for her much, but I’m happy she helped me learn to be tough atleast.

[–]PandaLitter1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Do you have a picture of the scars??

[–]ntkstudy4410 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy

Ya I do, just would rather keep that far away from this reddit account because it’s pretty recognizable. My scars are pretty bad but if embraced them honestly, they lead to great conversation starters and if a chick straight up asks me about them then she’s usually my type

[–]PandaLitter-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Have you been hearing we live in a society more often these days

[–]agjrpsl0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Wow, sorry you had to go through that. How are you coping with all that today.

[–]ntkstudy442 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Doesn’t bother me anymore, everyone’s childhood is a little bit fucked. My counselor always made sure I didn’t act like a victim, which helped me a lot.

But ya the new joker movie has def made it worse

[–]agjrpsl2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yea, that's why I'm not going to see it. Glad your doing good.

[–]Vicco_16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy

Your friend sounds like the saitama (one punch man) archetype.

You know the meme where boros flexes his powers expecting Saitama to break frame? Instead, Saitama replies with a nonchalant "ok".

He knows deep down the only person he can get validation from is himself.

[–]ThatsReallyGr86 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Because none of it is new. Just the same old shit show on a new day.

[–]estrogenmilk4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Would love to hear more examples. I Grew to be one of these sigma's as that's just what the soil provided from my background. Unfortuantly I lack the aesthetics so many of my ''talents'' are put to waste

[–]Slut_Slayer90002 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Think of the military, specifically elite groups within the military.

They basically have to go through months of torture to get into the group, this is done to break them down, and eventually build them back into men with rock solid frame with can handle literally any challenge thrown at them.

Same thing with anyone who has to go through extreme difficulties in life. They learn to maintain frame, it they didn't they would die.

[–]2INNASKILLZ2K187 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy

Who actually knows? Guys have literally been given one paragraph about your friend, and we're all psycho analysts with ability to diagnose.

If he's turning women into worshiping freaks off one interaction, there is something else to it.

Describe the interactions. Give us some details, or you'll get general arm chair psychiatrists giving you answers.

[–]We_Broke_Up[S] 6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

From observation and the past experiences he had that I know of, these are some details that might be useful. He's an empath as a result of all of the suffering that he went through. Really good at understanding peoples' suffering. He can easily get people to open up, and he's also easily able to be vulnerable. He's an introvert, but get him alone with someone and they'll give him their life story. Each day he'd come with something new. He's able to be assertive because of a developed sense of self from going through adversity in childhood and a lot of abuse. That feeding of comfort that he gives to others seems to be what pulls girls in, and then when they think they can take advantage of it (ex. friendzone, use, or manipulate him etc.), I think the experience from abuse comes in where he doesn't react to their games of trying to guilt-trip him or throwing negative energy at him, and he knows how to check them or dismiss them, so then that's when they're "trapped in the web" so to speak and start doing whatever they can to keep getting that comfort that they already got a taste of, validation, and re-assurance of their identity by being around him.

[–]2INNASKILLZ2K181 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

HHhhhmmm. Sounds like you have a pretty clear list of behaviours.

Doesn't pedestalize, or 'chase'. Instead, treats people like humans. Treats women as humans.

Assertive, so he has boundaries. That's a big strength.

Also shows a willingness to 'walk away'.

Empathetic, so doesn't sounds like he's a cunt to others. More, he understand and gets people, but also knows people aren't all saints. So can cut them loose.

This sort of character, imo, can be moulded when you've been through some shit. You've often seen a different side and depth to humans.

It's strange, because what you've described I resonate with. I spent 12 years in active addiction. Homeless, drug dealing, losing everything, etc. I've seen the most fucked up sort of people.

I now work in rehab, helping others. I have deep empathy, but coupled with reality. Like, I love people and want to see as many as I can have the chances I've had to recover, but at the same time I know people's nature, flaws and bullshit.

It creates a very interesting mix, where you can connect with people but also see through and expect their shit.

In no way am I saying I'm like your friend, but your description isn't unfamiliar to me.

The most important thing is, it's different. Different to the hoards of boring, pedestalizing, show-off retards most women deal with on the regular.

Without knowing specifics about him, he may have learnt how to manipulate people, or he may be a good guy who is just very streetwise. Trauma can play out in someone in all sorts of complex ways, and without knowing specifics of his trauma it's difficult to say.

But the main thing is, be different. Different is always good.

[–]2INNASKILLZ2K180 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Forgot to say, in terms of passing shit tests some trauma victims are terrible. They fall apart at anything, this is the BPD and personality disorder people.

Some others have seen enough shit, that games women play are like a walk in the park.

[–]cracksniffer6662 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

From experience, ex and I BOTH had PTSD, but we didn't know it when we got together. We had it for different reasons, she had it from sexual abuse, I had it from bullying.

You just learn to pay attention to every little thing, to the point where it becomes extremely exhausting.

[–]We_Broke_Up[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

This sounds like the friendship I have with the guy I mentioned in the post. Literally word for word. I don't know if you'd call it PTSD, but I've had long-lasting issues from bullying that still affect me now and he's gone through the same type of abuse. We also have that thing where we pay attention to everything. I'm just not naturally good at it and I over-think instead.

[–]cracksniffer6660 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Yeah I had "certain things" I grew out of that were fucking terrible and legit went to school every day, waiting to get fucked with. I'd be amazed if I got on the bus home and didn't get fucked with.. Super sad typing that out, but no one fucks with me now, I'll tell you that, lol.

[–]We_Broke_Up[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Nothing sad about it man. It's not your fault for how you are when you don't know that it's happening. It only becomes an issue when you recognize it and aren't putting in the work to improve, though it seems like you've done that. If you ever have the time, I recommend you google an archetype called "The Victim". It might be helpful to you.

[–]cracksniffer6660 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I will! Thanks

[–]Merica9113 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

The reason why the girl was “BEGGING” to have sex with him is because the other side of the coin he showed ZERO interest in having sex. So it was literally a shit test to see if he cracks in having sex or show interest in having sex and the second it happens she no longer begs, better yet she’ll start showing no interest.

Remember, girls want what they can’t have. And to top it off, your boy was congruent. He wasn’t putting up a sleazy act only to pull a bait and switch and psych girls into the bed room. Like your boy is seriously emotionless in which down the line, I hate to say, is very bad for his well-being. And really hope he doesn’t have suicide thoughts.

This really only works up to the age 25 and after that older people and girls show less empathy for people that walk around with a chip on their shoulder because their life too is difficult and nobody has time to pick apart a dude that’s just sheltered off. Like seriously, is he going to insert himself in social events and situations only to be sheltered?

To top it off you were at a party and pretty sure this girl just wanted to get slammed regardless of the person.

[–]We_Broke_Up[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

She was a party girl, we weren't at a party. It's a girl he met at a part-time job that he ended up quitting. Your interpretation of the situation makes a lot of sense though. There are difficulties that come with emotional unavailability. It seemed like he was down to have sex though. It was her urgency and narcissism that turned him off from the way he explained it. The friend is social and really empathetic. He just is REALLY good at de-escalating and confronting people on their bs, so basically he's assertive. He seems to have done the whole therapy gig and hes able to be vulnerable so a lot of the negative aspects don't show as much

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

How do you reach this state where you dont need any external validation?

[–]We_Broke_Up[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

You become your own mental point of origin. You go through enough adversity and push through to develop self-respect & personal boundaries (without over-compensating), know yourself (your strengths/weaknesses), and know what your needs are. You live for the sole sake of impressing yourself (ex. following your own value system), catering to your needs, and/or following your purpose. As a result, you no longer need to cave in to the desires of others because you know how to meet your own needs and don't need to fake acting nice in hopes of others doing the same (look into convert contracts for a better understanding of this). There's way more to this, I simplified it a lot. Basically, you need to build your frame. There's tons of posts on this already. I'm still learning and I've been months into this already. Building your frame is literally restructuring your view of reality. It's tough and it takes time.

[–]Austin2Leader1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy

he has dark triad features....

[–]420KUSHBUSH0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy

So do I although it was either onset by or increased because of my circumstances so I'm sure it's the same case for the person OP is talking about

[–]We_Broke_Up[S] 4 points5 points  (7 children) | Copy

To add to that, the dark triad traits that he tends to lean into the most when he does show them are probably narcissism (as a result of extreme self-love to cope) and Machiavellianism (because of a distrust of everyone and viewing interactions as a game of power). I remember he shared the 48 laws of power with me and he said something along the lines of "you need to know how the world works, and then it's on you to be responsible in how you use that knowledge"

[–]420KUSHBUSH1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy

What you said sounds exactly like me. Does his narcissism become a little unbearing for your taste/other people's taste?
Me a few years ago would have loved 48 Laws of Power since I was very edgy although I read it in the past year and didn't like it really. "Never outshine the master" is a crucial rule to follow. Personally I find Laws of Human Nature is Greene's best work so far while Art of Seduction is a close second

[–]We_Broke_Up[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

Yeah it does. It's a private one that he shows when he opens up. It's related to his dreams with regards to creativity and a grandiose view of his creative abilities, along with his interpretation of the universe and peoples' place in it. In a way also romanticizing his trauma but grounded and knowing that he's romanticizing it but not caring. If you're into MBTI, he'd be an INFP if they were assertive.

[–]420KUSHBUSH0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

That sounds very much like me. I am trying to downplay the narcissism/rid myself of it though it doesnt seem to be very effective currently. Strangely enough I was more narcissistic a few years back and I was more attractive then

[–]We_Broke_Up[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Have you ever looked into the INFP personality type? This sort of thing isn't to box you in. It's more of a tool to find habits/patterns that you have and solutions that seem to work for others with those same issues/strengths.

[–]420KUSHBUSH0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I had a different personality type when I took the quiz a while ago, I appreciate the heads up though. I did look over the strengths and weaknesses though just in case I could apply/learn anything

[–]We_Broke_Up[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

If it helps, my friend tested as INTJ, but I think his personality traits and maybe some of the narcissism got in the way. All the signs point to an INFP who's super assertive. If you have trauma, the test gets a bit tricky because the traits from the trauma mess with the results

[–]420KUSHBUSH0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Indeed. I'm pretty sure I got INTJ or something very similar when I did it a while ago

[–]AlwaysimprovingMane1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

When you've been through REAL things, you realize how unimportant some random girl is. There's literally billions of them.

[–]66pisstrooperorder661 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Lol i know what your talking about I came to where I am as a refugee and boy did I experience some shit lol and I sometimes laugh at work colleagues or people stories of their “hardship” and why they are depressed sometimes I have to hold back from judging them because the life I experienced was that unique. Even in my mean bluepill days I always had a skill in this area

[–]Garathon4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

That's good for you but don't compare yourself to others. Their hardships are also valid, not everyone is a war damaged refugee.

[–]66pisstrooperorder660 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Big facts that’s why as I have gotten old 26 iv really tried to pull myself up on it because everyone’s story is relative to their life

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

abuse victims

Maintain a healthy degree of internal scepticism towards girls telling you about their abuse, because:

  • Much of it is made up or exaggerated
  • Whether true or not she's trying to make you into a white knight and garner sympathy
  • Did you forget that you too have suffered abuse, problems, difficulties and they are likely much worse than she'll have to face in life.

This guy sounds like he has a strong frame. Why do you believe the abuse thing so readily?

[–]We_Broke_Up[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

That's a great question. Well, considering that's he's never made any errors in his story-line (I'm hyper-cautious about gas-lighting), he's bisexual and uncomfortable about his sexuality (also seen proof of it) and been going to therapy to deal with the trauma (which he also showed proof of), and that he's empathetic and consistent in his personality (from knowing him for 10 years now), it's pretty safe to assume that he's very likely not bullshitting. Also, the fact that he was willing to tolerate all the inconsiderate shit I put him through back in the day with nothing gained on his end (he has the tendency to want to fix peoples' lives). On top of that, instead of exploiting my lack of social awareness or agree-ability, he brought it to my attention, and even got frustrated when I became agreeable or tried to act fake to fit in. If he was bullshitting, I might as well start questioning my whole family and assume I'm a part of a test tube experiment and everyone around me is acting.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Gotcha..... seems pretty consistent and plausible.

Thing is... abuse doesn't always lead to people having a strong frame. Some people who've been through a lot come out as in this case: strong. Others come out weak and broken and needy victims, never ever letting anyone else forget their victimhood

[–]We_Broke_Up[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You're right. I like looking into personality archetypes and pretty much everyone I meet tends to fit into one of them to varying degrees. Abuse victims seem to either become "the fixer" archetype or "the victim".

[–]420KUSHBUSH0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Reading this made me remember the time I had a discussion against 12 other people where I was the only one having my opinion and held my ground for the entire duration of the discussion (which was at least 20 minutes). One girl after that started wanting me something fierce. OP is onto something

[–]zero0x0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You are different from the rest. Your heart is pure! Rejoice! The broken are the more evolved. Rejoice. - The Beast (Split)

[–]We_Broke_Up[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The part where he goes from "rejoice" to "more evolved" always gets me. From demented crazy liberated laughter to breaking down through the cracking in his voice whilst still trying to hide the pain from his memories through his expression. Fucking amazing acting

[–]Casd120 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

What does he do in these interactions? Does he call out their faults personality wise, then proceed to give them a solution?

[–]We_Broke_Up[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

It depends on the specific scenario. If it's a shit test, being nonreactive, dismissive, or down-playing it. If it's a personality default, calling out their action, but if it continues, literally roasting their default and confronting them to their face without a care for if that person will like them or not after the interaction

[–]Casd120 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

What do you mean by personality default? Like a flaw with their personality? Can you give an example of a flaw he would call out on?

[–]We_Broke_Up[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Being selfish, insecure to the detriment of the friendship, jealous, controlling etc.

[–]EvelynnSpoiler0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

Sounds like depersonalization to me. When I'm depersonalized I feel like a robot and my frame is unbreakable. I'd rather be my fun self than a depersonalized robot

[–]We_Broke_Up[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

That reminds me of my first LSD trip when I experienced frame on an extreme level. That's probably the first time I "developed a spine" of sorts. Like you explained in your example, I went to the deep end for a good week where I was just nonreactive to everything. Someone would say a joke and then I'd just look at them and shrug instead of pretending it was funny. It was an extreme. I then ended up back to how I was before the trip, and ever since then I've been slowly calibrating myself to just the right level. The friend I mentioned isn't like that. He knows how to maneuver himself

[–]EvelynnSpoiler0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

How do you calibrate yourself precisely?

For me I reach the filling point and then have to do some sort of release, which in many occasions has included psilocybin mushrooms

[–]We_Broke_Up[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

So far, I've just been testing what works while still allowing myself to be my real self around people without being too nonreactive. I'm hoping that by being aware of it and putting myself in tons of different situations, I'll be able to develop a sweet spot eventually.

Could you expand on what you mean by reaching your filling point?

[–]EvelynnSpoiler0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

To have that sort of control is a blessing imo

The filling point is when stresses have accumulated to the point where I simply cannot become myself. I then have to empty the jug and start over. Psychedelics have greatly assisted this emptying as other methods don't seem to help much

[–]We_Broke_Up[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The way you describe it reminds me of a friend of mine who also trips a lot. I do agree though. It's like a "spiritual cleanse" where you center yourself again and it allows you to get back into positive habits and free-flowing as yourself without the constant junk you're getting every day. I'm reminded now how different I was since my last trip and now. Might be about that time.

It's definitely a blessing. I'd say that as long as you notice frame in social interactions and keep putting yourself out there, you'll start instinctively knowing what to avoid and how to act, and what are the best ways of communicating your authentic self.

[–]1XXXMersenne-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy



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