Is there always neccessarily something inherently wrong with someone who can't find a romantic partner?

geyges · 2019-10-10T13:07:41+00:00

Everytime I say some guys are just not liked romantically by women in general people assume I'm talking about ugly people or strawman incels

That's just the shit women say. Part of the female solipsism. When average girl puts on some lipstick and a short shorts, she gets more attention than she ever wanted, so girls think it works the same way for men.

Dudes need to woo the girls, and if you're not socially savvy, then you're going to have harder time then average.

On the other hand, if you're intensively looking for a partner, and keep getting turned down by like 50 women irl, yea there's probably something wrong with you.

MuleFool42 · 2019-10-10T14:57:13+00:00

Generally speaking, and there are exceptions, if a man can't find someone then it's because something is wrong with him.

If a woman can't find someone, it's because there's something wrong with men.

LOL

SmurfESmurferson · 2019-10-10T13:40:11+00:00

I know a guy, B. He is ripped - he does multiple triathlons every year - and actually quite a good looking guy. Certainly more good looking than his brother

He’s very nice, a youth minister, has a successful career and multiple investment properties around town. Good hygiene, dresses well, etc. He checks all of the boxes

Yet, he couldn’t get a girlfriend for years. While his brother not only had girls throwing themselves at him, but was chosen by their father to take over the family business (a fine jewelry store, where bracelets regularly run in the six figure range)

So why was B not successful? To quote one girl I know who went on a few dates with him, “once you got over the excitement of looking at him, he was just so boring. It was painful to talk to him”

Self improvement is great, but you have to be fun and interesting, too

Reisiluu · 2019-10-10T13:57:22+00:00

Not finding the right demographic probably contributes to romantic problems. An engineer may not meet many girls during college, but the female pharmacy students who could be a match study and work elsewhere. Or if someone has uncommon values they may not be looking in other countries where such values are more common. People with different religious beliefs may be overlooked even though they would be generally compatible as partners.

AsclepiustheSage · 2019-10-10T13:36:48+00:00

Depends. Do they want to find a romantic partner?

If they don't want to, nothing wrong with that; it's a choice.

If they do want to... and they can't, there could be 3 possibilities that I can think of:

they have anxiety issues that manifest in: shyness, social anxiety, insecurities, lack of confidence, lack of self-worth.... and more that prevents that person to engage in meaningful interactions leading to finding a romantic partner.
they have unreasonable expectations of their match for romantic partner
combination of 1 and 2 above

atypicalgamergirl · 2019-10-10T15:51:51+00:00

If by ‘romantic’ you mean a mutually deep level of intimacy where both partners are enriched by the strengths of the other, and in turn support and help heal the weaknesses of the other - then unfortunately there are plenty of men and women who won’t ever find that for a variety of reasons.

The person who has to settle and/or be settled for is not likely to have the strengths needed to offset the weaknesses for themselves, much less for a partner.

Those missing strengths are an integral part of building true intimacy. Without it, you may have a relationship but it will be built primarily on mutual weaknesses and motivated by fear of loneliness rather than a genuine desire to truly be with that specific individual.

There are some who make it work because they choose against loneliness but the chances of finding a partner with just the right weakness/strength balance to agree to stick it out (mutually resigning themselves to knowing they won’t ever find ‘better’) are pretty low.

Social media, etc give the impression that there is always ‘higher’ out there to aim for, so it lessens the chances even more.

Gravel_Roads · 2019-10-10T16:08:36+00:00

Nope. It might mean he needs to change scenes, tho. I guess if a guy is literally unable to change scenes, something might be “wrong” with him in the way something is “wrong” with disabled people. But I think with the right care and psychological health maintenance, these obstacles can usually be overcome.

Dash_of_islam · 2019-10-10T18:34:39+00:00

I think people can have trouble finding love for many reasons, and no, it definitely doesn't mean something is wrong with them. It's sad that so many people think this is the case.

Some people have traits that the majority of people of the opposite gender do not find attractive.

So, guys who are shy, short, or unattractive will have a harder time, simply because most women like tall, confident, attractive men. It isn't that something is wrong with them. They aren't bad people. It's just that they aren't in super high demand. They are more like a niche product, and finding a customer for a niche product is always going to be tougher. It comes down to luck. A guy who is 5'1 is going to have to hope real hard for a woman who either doesn't care about height or who has a legit short-guy fetish (my 6 foot sister is like this-she likes small guys she towers over).

Or for women, if a woman is overweight, she is going to have a harder time finding a man interested in her. There are men who don't care a lot about weight, and there are men who are legit chubby-chasers, but most men want skinny women. So she's a niche product too. Nothing inherently wrong with her, not a bad person, but finding someone is going to come down to luck.

Now it's true that SOME people who can not find a partner probably have some issues and need to work them out. Sometimes it is probably due to personality. Certainly not always the case though. Some people just really struck out with genetics and there isn't much they can do. Some things like shyness or weight can be changed through a lot of effort, but it's tough.

For people with average looks who struggle, the problem probably comes down to poor social skills. Again, definitely doesn't mean something is wrong with them. But poor social skills is considered an unattractive personality trait by many.

For others, the problem may just be bad luck or location.

I think it's a complex issue that would be impossible to summarize while also accounting for all the nuances and differences in individual experiences.

gowithflow192 · 2019-10-10T14:27:02+00:00

I'd say it's a function of western society. For millennia, everyone in the village would eventually partner off, even the proverbial village idiot. Women didn't reach for the sky and expect James Bond-level excitement on tap. Times have changed.

Whisper · 2019-10-10T18:45:48+00:00

There is only one reason that someone who wants an LTR can't find one:

They have not encountered anyone who meets their requirements and whose requirements they meet.

But there are several reasons why this could be the case:

They are not encountering anyone.
They are not encountering anyone who meets even the most basic of requirements.
Their requirements are so exacting that no one meets them.
Their requirements are exacting enough that anyone who meets them has requirements exacting enough to exclude them.

The solution to the first two is change the environment one is looking in. The solution to the third is to lower your standards. The solution to the fourth is a combination of self-improvement, and possibly also lowered standards.

Which one of these means "something is wrong" with them is a matter of opinion.

jigglypuff__0 · 2019-10-10T14:23:46+00:00

I just don’t know what dudes like you want from random people on the internet.

Of course if you’re saying you’re average with nothing wrong with you but can’t get a date, people will try to help you figure out what you’re lacking.

But at the end of the day if you can’t be helped you can’t be helped. According to the manosphere you will be in your prime at 40 if you’re ripped and rich. If that’s not working for you take it up with them.

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emotiveTechNerd · 2019-10-10T17:08:14+00:00

I think you might be onto something. I've been into self improvement more thoroughly over the last few years, but still haven't found a partner in those years. Gone on plenty of dates and hookups, but nothing stuck. And I still get nervous approaching women I want to date.. Over the years I've developed my passion, I'm working on a business, and engaging in hobbies and social activity, and even joined men's groups to work on my insecurities and confidence, and yet struggle approaching and asking a girl out in person. Maybe technology has made things way to convenient to not do things irl?

breznevo_anukas · 2019-10-10T18:52:27+00:00

A combination of being average/below, highish standards and effort. If only landwhales offer attention, why bother? And henceforth it goes life single ...

goatismycopilot · 2019-10-10T15:14:36+00:00

Yes, if you are actively trying to find a partner and you can't something is wrong, it does not have to be anything devastatingly profound. It might just be a weird triad of picky/neurotic/disagreeable as opposed to some giant mental health disorder.

paradote · 2019-10-10T15:39:31+00:00

I think your argument is pretty solid except I think you’re missing a couple factors that all the self-improvement in the world won’t help: 1.) availability 2.) personal standards being too high or too low and 3.) your social group

1.) I work in stem. I personally know a ton of people that are over-worked, constantly busy, and simply don’t have the time and energy for the dating game. These people are fairly attractive, have good personalities, social skills, interests, goals, etc., but they simply don’t have time to go on dates because the little free time they have is spent with friends or on personal projects. I know it sounds like a pretty trivial answer, but it can still take a toll when you try to make things work out but it doesn’t. Being constantly busy just isn’t very attractive to other people.

2.) I’m a girl, and I think I check all the self-improvement boxes you listed. Except the reason I can’t find dates is because I’m too picky, it’s as simple as that. I’m happy with being alone, and if anyone’s going to change that, they better make it worth it. Likewise, I know it’s kind of a meme at this point that guys will go for any girl that approaches them or seems interested. I know this isn’t true for most guys, but girls usually don’t like it when a guy they’re talking to has no standards. It makes us feel objectified and like you could be talking to a brick wall and be fine with it, so we might as well be a brick wall. Just something to consider.

3.) social group is probably more of a factor than people realize. I mean that if you’re decently attractive, have a good personality, the whole nine, but can’t find a date because you’re always hanging around people that are more attractive, better personality etc, than you, then you’ll probably be less successful in the long run. Now, I’m not saying to ditch your friends and make sure that anyone attractive you ever meet never meets them. I’m saying that it couldn’t hurt to explore your own personality and interests and find something you enjoy that is outside of your friend group. This’ll help you meet more people, be more well-rounded, and can set you apart from your friends. For example, I’m a huge metalhead. I could easily stand out from my friends if I wanted to by wearing band tees, wearing all black, getting more tattoos, etc. it’s a separate life I have away from my friends that lets me meet new people and better understand myself. I guess you could consider this self improvement, but someone could still be a good dating candidate without necessarily doing this.

Obviously, there are probably a lot more factors out there that could curb dating chances that have nothing to do with the person, such as illness or poverty, but I think this list shows a couple that are more common and aren’t as easy to identify.

TheMedsPeds · 2019-10-10T17:14:08+00:00

Idk, I’m a woman that’s always had trouble attracting men because I don’t know how to flirt plus I’m not very attractive. But my biggest problem is I don’t have the social life to meet men. If it wasn’t for online dating I’d probably be a femcel lol. Because by being on there’s motives are established so no flirting Necessary!

stedi-akk · 2019-10-10T14:42:14+00:00

No one wants to live with mentally ill person - that is the main reason.

novelgrowth16 · 2019-10-10T15:06:59+00:00

I think it's mostly mental issues and personality disorders. men who are confident in themselves and have no social issues do get laid. it's the men who grow up having unresolved mental illnesses and traumas that suffer attracting women.

ResponsibleCharacter · 2019-10-10T14:52:28+00:00

They might be overshooting their attractiveness. If a guy isn’t relatively handsome they shouldn’t be going for overtly pretty women. If they actually tried with girls as plain as they are they’d probably have success.

eboy4hire · 2019-10-10T19:10:06+00:00

Look up the youtuber MondayNightFA for example

I can't find the guy.

PickUpScientist · 2019-10-10T21:41:44+00:00

inherently as in permanently? you could be grossly disfigured i guess. or severely mentally handicapped.

Kos_-_Omak · 2019-10-10T22:07:26+00:00

If the guy isn't ugly and is normal socially but still struggles with women, it's almost always because he doesn't show sexual interest in women or escalates incorrectly or not at all. A lot of times these guys could have easily had a girlfriend and even will have girls crushing on them wanting to be with the guy, but he just never makes a move and nothing ever happens.

That's the biggest problem for a LOT of guys. For whatever reason they can't tell when a girl is interested in them or they assume that they would get rejected so they never even try.

If you're a guy and see an attractive girl, don't overthink it just make a move. Worst thing that happens is she says "no" and even then so what? You got your answer no reason to keep thinking about it just move on to the next one.

Transmigratory · 2019-10-10T22:08:08+00:00

More times than not, yes.

SupremeMystique · 2019-10-11T02:34:28+00:00

Monday is not an incel, he claims to be FA but does it to fool viewers.

He even has a girlfriend now.

Looks absolutely matter.

Nicefemoid123 · 2019-10-11T21:10:53+00:00

Not always. Sometimes with all genders it can be personality. There’s always going to be someone of the gender that you’re interested in that will like you for your personality instead of your looks. That’s why overweight women that many would normally not consider attractive can still find boyfriends and things like that because they have a positive outlook on life. There’s not something wrong with someone if they think that Women are awful and refer to them as sluts and whores, they just need to find another out look. However there is something wrong with people who think that rape is acceptable and better than insult theHowever there is something wrong with people who think that rape is acceptable and better than inceldom. Our genders deserve equal rights and if you haven’t found the outlook you need yet there’s not something wrong with you you just need someone to help you see how valuable our genders are and how valuable you are as a person

MrHerbSherman · 2019-10-10T13:44:52+00:00

Kind of. However, finding an LTR is possible for average looking men because despite what incels and some reds say, it’s way more than 20% of men in them. But, the thing about LTRs is that they are based more on things like personality, shared values, interests, menta connection, and how comfortable you make the other person. People who are higher on the autism spectrum might find this difficult. Still, finding an LTR as an average guy isn’t terribly difficult if you are average in social skills and are realistic with who you go after. If I, as a short man with an average face can easily find LTRs, just about any dude can.

TrueReligionGenes · 2019-10-10T14:30:05+00:00

The sexual prerogatives are different between the two sexes. This question can be framed better by asking "Is there something inherently wrong with a male who can't find a romantic partner?"

And the answer is of course.

They are either physically unattractive and thus struggle finding any woman thats sexually attracted to them. Or they are mentalcels and are mentally or socially deficient in some way even though they might not be dealbreakers physically speaking. But yes, even though a significant percentage of males arent universally successful with women, it is usually a red flag if a male cant attract a single woman given enough time. There is something inherently wrong with his sexual worth whether its physical or mental.

[deleted] · 2019-10-10T14:42:22+00:00

No, it’s not necessarily true.

Women, including ugly women, never have a justified excuse to not find a partner.

Men can have an excuse.

webernicke · 2019-10-10T15:16:32+00:00

So dating is a little bit like basketball, in that one's level of success is mostly influenced by practicing a narrow skillset and by luck-of-the-draw type traits like physical features, gender, and environment. Like all skills, there is a spectrum of ability, almost anyone can learn to improve and, most importantly, competence does not imply morality, "normality," character, or worth as a human being. This is why people that should have no business in relationships (like serial abusers and cheaters) often have no problem finding partners; They've simply learned (or are lucky enough) to push all the right buttons. To answer your question--No, there is nothing inherently wrong with people that are unable to find romantic partners. At the very least, it's logically invalid to use someone's romantic status as any reliable indication of their character. Most people don't struggle with dating because they're subpar people. People struggle with dating because they simply lack the skills (and/or luck) to be successful. That's all.

There are many reasons people seem to think that there is something "wrong" with people that consistently struggle to date. Unlike other skills, and the threshold to be considered successful at dating is really low. A lot of people that look their noses down at incels have only ever managed to find one partner and would be completely out of options if their relationship ended. Because luck is such a big factor, you don't actually need to be skillful at dating to succeed, which means the vast majority of people are able to participate one way or another. It suggests that relationship success "just happens" by default unless something is going wrong (not necessarily true, success could just as easily be a series of things going "right") to the point that we've also structured our entire society around pairing up. It's a very, very, short step away from thinking that success is nearly automatic unless something is wrong to thinking of it as nearly automatic unless someone is wrong as a person, especially if they're really trying and still failing.

Women are especially susceptible to this because, for one, they are more passive, desired and pursued than men are and thus prone to feeling that things "just happen." Another reason is because women are hypergamous. Hypergamous instincts can compel women to believe that the men that they and other women are attracted to are objectively the best men, and more importantly the corollary, that something must be "wrong" with men many women find unattractive. In reality, this a post-hoc forebrain rationalization of things that appeal to their hindbrain "cavewoman" sensibilites, aka the "Halo effect." As far as sex is concerned, men are more likely to unapologetically admit shallowness. (Marriage and commitment is a different story, though)

PMmeYourHopes-Dreams · 2019-10-10T13:52:36+00:00

unable to attract partners they like that like them

That is the answer, it's what they like or would like to get in a partner. Anyone can get a relationship if your standards are low enough. Most people choose not to take the first thing that comes along. It's like those women you see on Tinder and POF that want the 6'3, successful, athletic guy with model looks but they are very average.......not gonna happen.

jonascf · 2019-10-10T14:46:50+00:00

So why are some people that have improved their social skills, body, and fashion to a reasonable level still unable to attract partners they like that like them?

Might be just really bad luck, never being in the right place at the right time.

Or maybe they still lack something that's needed to be attractive to a large enough amount of people.

StopTheIncels · 2019-10-10T15:44:50+00:00

I tend to agree.

Case example: I have coworker friend who's probably medically overweight but hides her weight pretty well, maybe a 4 at best (imo). But somehow manages to date multiple high profile/successful men (CEO of startup, senior/VP engineers, high powered finance guys) sometimes at the same time, so I guess she really is that fun and cool to be around. Yet she's never been able to lock one down as potential Husband prospect™️.

officerkondo · 2019-10-10T15:54:05+00:00

trying to be more outgoing, working out, and wearing nice clothes that can't find a partner they're mutually attracted to.

None of these help if your face looks like Seabiscuit.

So why are some people that have improved their social skills, body, and fashion to a reasonable level still unable to attract partners they like that like them?

A lot of the time, they look like Seabiscuit with social skills and well-fitting slacks.

wtknight · 2019-10-10T17:24:09+00:00

like not being driven or not having a desire for social interaction.

I have those qualities and I can still attract at least some women. Many people just give up too quickly and wallow in self-pity if their self-improvement efforts don’t produce immediate results. Persistence in finding a partner is key.

LingLing2169 · 2019-10-10T16:07:45+00:00

In the recent years with social media and date apps women can find a mate really easily.They can find the best 10 % of men. the alpha rich men so fast they don’t even need to give a chance to this normal men

W_Edwards_Deming · 2019-10-10T14:44:15+00:00

Yes, you are failing as a biological organism.

Solution? Think outside the box. Consider arranged marriage, normal in many asian countries. Pay a dating service at home or travel abroad.

Doing the same thing the same way hasn't worked, time to try something completely different. Keep doing that and you'll eventually solve your problem.

ToraChan23 · 2019-10-10T14:33:15+00:00

sadomasochrist · 2019-10-10T16:00:02+00:00

Yes. 100% of the time.

Give me an example where this is not true.

HWGA_Gallifrey · 2019-10-10T19:37:38+00:00

Society tends to judge you harshly if you're still single longer than is culturally appropriate.

Title	Is there always neccessarily something inherently wrong with someone who can't find a romantic partner?
Author	tgertcher
Upvotes	49
Comments	189
Date	October 10, 2019 12:24 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/dfx8rs/is_there_always_neccessarily_something_inherently/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/is-there-always-neccessarily-something-inherently.289627 https://theredarchive.com/post/289627