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Do MRP members advocate for decades long monogamous LTRs/Marriages or it just the case that everyone on here found TRP too late and were already trapped?

by Work_ln_Progress | December 13, 2019 | askMRP

25 upvotes

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Hi all. First time poster.

Context

I'm 24 and 3 years into an LTR. I can see married life laid out before me. We're looking at buying our first place and she's made it clear that she wants mariage and 2-3 kids with me.

I'm someone who really values human relationships. I can't imagine any relationships being more meaningful than with a lifelong partner and the children that follow. But I'm also not filled with confidence that what I hope these relationships could be is even possible. I'm not sure if a woman will ever love me the way I want to be loved. I'm sure the novelty of being single again and sleeping with new and attractive women probably won't be particularly satisfying either...

Question(s)

1) Do MRP members advocate for decades long monogamous LTRs/Marriages or it just the case that everyone on here found TRP too late and were already trapped?

2) Is my best option to just keep the relationship going but reduce the effort I put into it while I read and work my ass off in other areas of my life for the next 6-12 months and then re-evaluate?

Update:

Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to reply and is still engaging in conversation. There does seem to be a variety of opinions below. I'm currently travelling and lacking regular internet access but will continue to hop in and send comments as I can. A few things I'm seeing as constant:

  1. Don't buy a house with someone you're not married to.
  2. What she wants shouldn't be a factor at all in my decision.
  3. If I want to have children this will be rewarding but also lots of hard work.
  4. Ultimately it's a cost benefit analysis. Do I want the freedom and casual sex that goes with being single. Or do I want the ability to raise children in a stable environment with a woman that I know will grow older get stretch marks?

Obviously this is a condensation and there's plenty more that I'm taking away from the discussion.


Post Information
Title Do MRP members advocate for decades long monogamous LTRs/Marriages or it just the case that everyone on here found TRP too late and were already trapped?
Author Work_ln_Progress
Upvotes 25
Comments 108
Date 13 December 2019 02:28 AM UTC (7 months ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/299095
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/e9xpj9/do_mrp_members_advocate_for_decades_long/
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Comments

[–][deleted] 60 points61 points  (22 children) | Copy

Slow down dude. You are 24 years old. 3 years is not near long enough to vet a woman for marriage with children.

Secondly don’t think life with kids is all sunshine and rainbows. Nobody really ever tells you this but it is way more fucking work then you can possibly imagine to be a good father. You will feel emotions stronger than anything you thought possible for your kids, but you will work constantly for these brief moments of extreme happiness.

Thirdly never fucking think, type, write, or say the words “she’s made it clear” ever again.

And as far as her loving you the way you want that will never happen. Especially once you have kids. You will become an afterthought until the kids are all older than 4, which is perfectly fine motherhood is actually pretty taxing on women. Don’t be a needy bitch during that time.

[–]mrpmonk24 points25 points  (5 children) | Copy

never fucking think, type, write, or say the words “she’s made it clear” ever again.

This.

[–]Work_ln_Progress[S] 7 points8 points  (8 children) | Copy

Slow down dude. You are 24 years old. 3 years is not near long enough to vet a woman for marriage with children.

You're absolutely right. I've let pressure from others (including but not limited to her) to commit further cloud my judgement. Ultimately though I need to make the decision solely for me and my goals.

Secondly don’t think life with kids is all sunshine and rainbows. Nobody really ever tells you this but it is way more fucking work then you can possibly imagine to be a good father. You will feel emotions stronger than anything you thought possible for your kids, but you will work constantly for these brief moments of extreme happiness.

This is what I expected. I know it's a terrible question but I'm going to ask you anyway: Is it worth it?

Thirdly never fucking think, type, write, or say the words “she’s made it clear” ever again.

Thanks for this, combined with further clarification below I'll work to internalise this.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy

Is it worth it? I don’t really know man. Like I said you will feel something for your kids that is just different than anything else. It’s primal. But even though you feel that you will long for the life you had before them. Both have positives and negatives.

[–]ManguZa6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's worth it IF you vet correctly and you lead your relationship correctly. Some people can't do it well and 3 years or 10 years to vet won't change anything to the situation.

[–]part_wolf6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Kids significantly limit your options, are a ton of work to raise properly, and are a drain on energy and resources. If you’re not mentally prepared for that - meaning you won’t resent anyone else for that decision when shit gets tough - and you aren’t 100% sure the woman you impregnate is going to be an amazing mother, do not have kids.

If you make good decisions and parent correctly, it can absolutely be worth it.

[–]RedPillGlasses5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy

There are happiness studies done on this, you can google them.

In a nutshell, having kids makes you LESS happy from 25-45 years old.

But makes you MORE happy from 45-dead, because you have a lineage left on this earth.

I have six kids. If I could go back, probably wouldn’t have any kids.

[–]EasyDaysHardNights2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

MORE happy from 45-dead, because you have a lineage left on this earth

... and if you have done your job right, your lineage is self-sufficient and you can enjoy the years you have left pursuing meaningful activities. Those activities may include time with your kids and grand-kids and / or a period of reflection and passing on the wisdom you have accrued in your lifetime.

Billionaire Ray Dalio and his promulgation of Principles resources is a good example of this mentoring activity.

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

That's interesting. I have two kids - they're an absolute joy to be around. I find raising them to be really easy and learn as much from them as they do from me.

But I was 41 when I had the first one, which falls in line with the study.

[–]RedPillGlasses0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

How old are your kids? Not that is always a factor, but I think it’s relevant.

And I would guess that you had your “me time”, vs having kids in your 20s feels like kids stole that time (which they kind of do)

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The kids are young (u7), so yeah, I did a lot of living in my 20s. Didn't marry till I was 35.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (4 children) | Copy

I could never sum it up this well but it is absolutely perfect. This explains why I am never getting married or having kids again. It's rewarding, that is for sure but you better vet the shit out of her for years. I am literally the biggest moron ever and get hunted down for my genes. Never saw it coming. Then got trapped because I was dumb. Married her in 3 months. Only took longer because we didn't elope. Fuck me.

You can't keep me cooped up in here OK?! I am a peacock, you gotta let me fly!

[–]go-RED-go11 points12 points  (1 child) | Copy

Damn, hunted down for genes, wow, that hits home for me. I also got married 3 months after meeting my wife. In those 3 months she was all over me, bjobs, facials, anal, everything regulary + she was training me to get her pregnant. Almost every fuck we had had a strong pregnancy fantasy theme: "I want you to impregnant me, I want your strong seed, I want to breed with you, give me some babies, I want to suction your cum deep into my pussy...". 1 month after getting married "we" decided to make a baby. Fucking gene hunting and a blue pill moron me thinking how i will lock down this sweet pussy for life. Yeah , great plan.

Suprisingly sex didn't actually fall down imidiatelly. It was good and/or regular and started slowly losing quality and quantity when our son was around year old. Proportionaly as me becoming a big faggot and drunk captain.

[–]Don_Draper271 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Same shit for me only we didn't get married thankfully. 4 months into the relationship where she was bringing me lunch on her days off and nurturing me when I was sick and giving constant blowjobs, etc. She went on BC and I thought we'd be "safe" but she had some anti-biotics stashed away which counteracted the effects of the BC (I didn't even know this was possible).

Looking back it's almost as if she laid bread crumbs for me. "Training me to get her pregnant" is the exact description I could use. Constant fantasies about me cumming in her.

[–]Cloudy_Pirate4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

I am a peacock, you gotta let me fly!

I think we finally found your mission statement.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Maybe even new flair.

Fuck I love the other guys. Gonna have to watch it again.

Gator don't take no shit!

[–]JoeBuckYourslf5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

But... she’s made it clear.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is Bullshit

A woman is a woman and will be a good woman until the man is no longer worthy.

This is why pre-determined vetting periods are fucking gay.

3 years is not near long enough to vet a woman for marriage with children.

I dated my wife for 10 years before I put a ring on her.

Still went batshit crazy the MINUTE I WENT FULL RETARD.

Dont go full retard.

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret12 points13 points  (13 children) | Copy

You'll get varying responses, but overwhelmingly the answer will be that marriage 2.0 is a broken institution that holds no real benefit for men and all the advantage to women.

With that said, theres also a debate that marriage provides the highest form of security to women (especially in marriage 2.0) that could provide the deepest levels of satisfying their dual mating strategy.

Still, would you want to play Russian roulette with 3 rounds in the revolver? Or even if you can become "RP as fuck" would you want to play with one round in there instead?

Why not just a paperless "marriage"? She can still be wife and you can still be husband.

[–]hack3geRed Beret6 points7 points  (10 children) | Copy

Just a word of caution - some states have marriage laws that make you legally married even without being married - common law marriage is what it’s usually called. Things like living together for x years etc. Its important to own your shit if you go that route and do your research.

[–]itiswr1ttenRed Beret0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy

Other than south Carolina the standards for common law marriage in the 10 states it applies plus DC are really, really high.

[–]Work_ln_Progress[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

I live in Australia. I'm my state you literally just have to live together for 3 months and be perceived as a couple by people around you. Then she can take half your shit. It's crazy. Not as scary for me now because my assets are low but still scary.

[–]itiswr1ttenRed Beret1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

There is nothing in the source document to corroborate your claim

Histrionics are for betas and women

https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2013C00164

[–]Work_ln_Progress[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'll do some reading on this. Definitely should have done the reading already.

https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2017C00385

This one is the Famil Law Act. It deals with De Facto (what we call common law marriages). Haven't had a chance to read yet but will review tonight.

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

.... for now.

[–]itiswr1ttenRed Beret-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

You can't change common law without automatically grandfathering in. Meaning, when common law marriages change the new rules basically become "couples who do xyz after 2006" eg Colorado

[–]hack3geRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Agreed there is no consensus or law specifically stating time but typically 7-10 years is one area of consideration - also if she legally changes her last time that tends to be a big factor.

In general it’s court discretion so do you wanna bank your shit on the decision of someone else?

[–]hack3geRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Agreed there is no consensus or law specifically stating time but typically 7-10 years is one area of consideration - also if she legally changes her last time that tends to be a big factor.

In general it’s court discretion so do you wanna bank your shit on the decision of someone else? I personally wouldn’t b

[–]itiswr1ttenRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Ideally don't get legally married, and require cohabitation agreements from anyone who lives with you. But litigating yourself to death is also no way to live. Life is risk, is what it is

Once kids are in the mix there's no legal pre agreement, it's always pure interpretation anyway. Basically don't fuck unprotected in California.

[–]RedPillGlasses0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Agreed.

Talked to a divorce lawyer, the common law marriage scare stories are mostly just stories.

I will probably do a paperless marriage for my first mate/cum slut.

[–]Work_ln_Progress[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Russian roulette is a generally unappealing option.

I'm not sure what you mean by a paperless marriage but in Australia once you've lived together for a period of time, the law treats you as if you were married anyway (with regard to children and financial disputes at separation).

[–]Escape_From_Betacraz0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You can get a prenup for those situations as well, for the de facto relationship I mean. Even though the horror stories about them being overruled here, it very rarely happens and it needs to be very unjust for that to happen

[–]SepeanRed Beret10 points11 points  (4 children) | Copy

1) Do MRP members advocate for decades long monogamous LTRs/Marriages or it just the case that everyone on here found TRP too late and were already trapped?

Go 20 years back in time and give me RP knowledge, I’d still want kids, and to raise them in a nuclear family. So no, it is not just about being trapped.

2) Is my best option to just keep the relationship going but reduce the effort I put into it while I read and work my ass off in other areas of my life for the next 6-12 months and then re-evaluate?

Put the effort into you, not the relationship. Then when you’re not just “RP aware” but actually have done the work and become alpha, evaluate what you want. Maybe that is 5-10 years of spinning plates before settling down, maybe that is staying with this girl (who will be treating you much better), maybe that is an LTR with a much higher quality girl. Your options will change dramatically and that will change your outlook - so don’t do anything that locks you down until then.

[–]hack3geRed Beret0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

You wouldn’t get married again though I assume?

[–]SepeanRed Beret1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I’m only opposed to marriage if it puts you at a disadvantage. That is not the case where I live. I’m actually not married because it would be a huge tax risk for our family. Our assets are mostly in her name (financial crisis aftermath), and being unmarried I can’t get hold of much of it if we split up, so I’m way worse off than married guys.

All else being equal, with a solid and enforcable prenup and reasonable postup division, I’m more for marriage than against it. Rituals and symbolism matter to humans. I’m only against marriage when it puts you in a weak position legally or financially, and that’s just not an issue where I live, on the contrary (except for one paragraph in the tax code, which is why I didn’t get married).

[–]Work_ln_Progress[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This probably makes the most sense. As I refine my understanding of my mission and become the man that I can be, I'm confident that I'll have greater clarity on what I want from women (and by extension this woman in particular).

[–]Smuggler-Tuek7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Really hard to say. My marriage is going a lot better now than it ever was but all marriages really are Russian roulette. The wife has so much power it’s scary. Having kids makes it worth it but don’t ever confuse it for a fairy tale. Marriage is the price you pay so you can have kids (usually). If I had to do it over again I probably would do it still but that is 110% out of love for my children.

[–]RPWolfAlpha_as_Wolf_2.07 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Marriage today is a sham and completely unnecessary. There is no benefit in it for men at all. I will use myself and my friends as an example. My wife and I have 4 couples we have been friends with for over 20 years. I found out yesterday the final one who was still together out of all of us are getting a divorce. That is 4 couples in less than 3 years who got divorced. All of them were at or near the 10-year mark. My wife and I are the only ones still together and truthfully if it wasn't for RP 3 years ago we were 6 months tops away from the same place. My sister

has been divorced twice and my brother once. Shit, my parents' marriage was even their second for both of them and this was in the early 70s!! As I got older I knew they loved each other but they were just roommates and they both had resentment. See the pattern here. Its a sham.

I have 3 boys and one of them just turned 18 and I will never tell them to get married. There is no reason. At the end of the day, everyone wants to leave a legacy and not die alone. Guess what, you can't take it with you and most people die in a hospital. Not to be a total downer but do your thing and fuck what people try to pressure you to do. It's all manipulation to fill their own needs.

[–]mrpmonk5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

Answering #2: if you think you need to work on yourself, then put in the effort, move your ass and make it happen. Because you do NEED it.

For #1: you gotta read rational male by Ranto Tomassi so you understand the deeper meaning. In a nut shell, have options first, marry the best option, keep having options, then never be a faggot.

[–]Work_ln_Progress[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Answering #2: if you think you need to work on yourself, then put in the effort, move your ass and make it happen. Because you do NEED it.

I definitely have work to do. It will be done.

For #1: you gotta read rational male by Ranto Tomassi so you understand the deeper meaning. In a nut shell, have options first, marry the best option, keep having options, then never be a faggot.

That makes sense. A follow up question: As I continue to improve, the available options will continue to improve... Forever. There'll always be a younger, fitter, whateverer option. Should this stop me from picking and committing to the best available option at any given point in time?

[–]RisingUpAgain6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

You have to decide what you want in life. If it’s a wife and a family (and to hopefully raise that family together) at some point you’re going to have to accept that you’re settling for a woman who you know is going to get old, have stretch marks, become less attractive etc etc etc.

[–]BarracudaRP5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

At 24, I was a completely different human than I was at 30. My values and goals continue to change, some of them drastically, as I get closer to 40.

I did a lot of things right in my early 20s (more than most), but I still look back on that guy and lovingly tell him he was a fucking moron - and I'm not just talking about RP awareness.

One of the only things that has not changed is my deep desire for freedom, adundance in all areas of my life. Done correctly, I would have vetted a woman well into my thirties before I contemplated marriage, and then it would have only been because she drives my mission forward. That said, I still would never get married again or recommend marriage to men.

What's your mission? How does SHE add to that, for your benefit? If these answers aren't obvious, then neither are your reasons for getting married.

[–]cholomiteMod / BP Downvote Magnet2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'm not married, and I think the ideal is a girl that will stick by you even if she knows you will never marry her. Make sure she is willing to do that before you commit to her.

[–]bowhunter62 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Amen, brother. That’s exactly my situation now, and it is ideal for me. Keeps them acting right, for the most part. Also, this situation is easier to implement when you are older, she is a little older, kids have been had, and the pressure for marriage/2.5 kids/white picket fence has decreased. May not be suitable for dudes with imminent wall-hitters and younger.

[–]InChargeManRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Don't buy a house together or have kids before you are married. That is retard level.

With that being said, I love being married, I love my wife, I love the family we have created. I wouldn't want it any different than it is right now. That doesn't mean it was always perfect, it took some time to get here, but for me the end result is awesome. Don't let the bad experiences of others keep you for pursuing your goals, but use them as guidance. By knowing MRP you are now way ahead of the curve.

[–]WolfofAllStreetz5 points6 points  (17 children) | Copy

Married 7 years together 13. Married at mid 20s for her. If I knew then what i knew now I wouldn’t of married BUT my wife is awesome. So I got hella lucky. She’s a 10 even at 31 and im insanely picky. It can turn real bad for men. Marriage is not advantageous to men at all but if you have the right one or mold the right one it can work. Problem is men do not vet women anymore so they play themselves.

Oh, DO NOT BUY A HOUSE TO SOMEONE YOU ARENT MARRIED WITH.

Also, you’re too young. Don’t marry till 30+

[–]Work_ln_Progress[S] 1 point2 points  (16 children) | Copy

Oh, DO NOT BUY A HOUSE TO SOMEONE YOU ARENT MARRIED WITH.

Assuming the that I'd like to buy a property, you'd advise purchasing it 100% in my name? The main benefit to purchasing together is the ability to apply two incomes to the debt. What's the major risk that you're warning about?

Also, you’re too young. Don’t marry till 30+

Would love some further clarification.

[–]WolfofAllStreetz8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy

I work in real estate. Put it in your name even if you have to buy a cheaper home. The amount of couples i sell houses to who aren’t married and the gf ends up fucking him financially would blow your mind.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Yep. My buddy got divorce raped and lost it all. Changed nothing and got a new girl. She took him for everything including his house and dog. He was homeless. It was his fucking girlfriend.

[–]WolfofAllStreetz2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Not just divorce but these men will buy homes with their GF put down most of the downpayment AND but her on the deed. This entitles them to 50% of the proceeds if the house ever sells.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

That is what I am talking about my man. He bought a house with his GF and she got everything some how. I think she called the cops on him because he lost his temper and he wilted so he wouldn't go to jail or get arrested.

[–]arm_candy4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy

Two people on the paperwork doesn’t change “the ability to apply two incomes to the debt”. What it changes is the ability to qualify for more debt. You can apply two incomes with a single name on the loan and if you need that second income to qualify you probably need a smaller house anyway.

I wouldn’t buy a house with someone I wasn’t married to regardless. Your finances are too tied up in theirs anyway. If you don’t trust them enough to marry, you shouldn’t trust them enough to take a 30 year loan in your name.

[–]Work_ln_Progress[S] -1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy

I can't imagine any woman (or any man for that matter) wanting to apply her income fully toward an asset that isn't even hers. Buying together means it benefits both of us to pay it off and we'd pay it off faster. I aim to only buy something that I could afford to pay off myself anyway.

That said, you're right. If I'm not ready for marriage, mixing my finances to this extent is not a wise decision to make.

[–]arm_candy5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Would you buy a house with a friend that you were planning on having as a roommate? Probably not. One of you would buy the place and the other would pay rent. Rent would generally be less than half the mortgage (at least four several years) to offset the fact that the renter isn’t gaining ownership of the asset. No reason a friend you fuck couldn’t/shouldn’t have the same arrangement.

Absolutely no way I would ever buy a house with someone I wasn’t willing to marry. There’s just so much of your assets tied up in a house that it almost might as well be marriage.

For the record, I also wouldn’t have kids with someone I wasn’t willing to marry. Kids are a much bigger commitment than marriage (unless you’re already a multimillionaire and you’re just knocking up random sluts, I guess).

[–]WesternhagenWinner1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I can't imagine any woman (or any man for that matter) wanting to apply her income fully toward an asset that isn't even hers.

Anyone who rents is doing exactly that.

Buying together means it benefits both of us to pay it off and we'd pay it off faster.

If you buy the house and pay 100% of the mortgage, she gets the benefit of any appreciation in your equity without having to pay a dime to earn it.

Just be warned that when many women say "it's cheaper to live together," they mean cheaper for her since you will be paying the mortgage and utilities while she gets to use her income as spending money. ("My money is my money, your money is our money.")

[–]Work_ln_Progress[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I could see this happening but in all expenses we have contributed 50/50 up until this point. My boundaries with finances have been good and expectations of joint contribution were set at the start of the relationship. She earns a similar amount to me currently (I helped her get a high earning job). The whole dynamic will change when children get involved I'm sure.

[–]WesternhagenWinner2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Assuming the that I'd like to buy a property, you'd advise purchasing it 100% in my name?

Once you are married, it doesn't matter whose name is on the title and mortgage. You have to split any appreciation in the property 50/50. It would, of course, be completely insane to put a woman on the title or mortgage if you were not married to her.

[–]creating_my_life4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy

Also, you’re too young. Don’t marry till 30+

Would love some further clarification.

Don't marry until you're over 40. Is that more clear?

[–]Work_ln_Progress[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Not really. Why would marriage be a more attractive proposition at 40 than 30 (or 24)?

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando10 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy

When you're 40, you can marry a woman 20 years younger than you.

If you do that when you're 24, you'll go to jail.

[–]hack3geRed Beret3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Haha fuck you - you made me spit my coffee out

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Perfect clarification for OP. Lol

[–]RisingUpAgain5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Because, likely, at 24 you don’t know shit, and you don’t have shit.

[–]fannyfire2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

27, married since 2015.

Marriage can work if you OYS and if your woman wants to be lead by a man. I was and am still a drunk captain but I got lucky finding TRP before a few decades past me by.

My wife is very conservative god fearing woman. She believes that the wife is supposed to serve the husband and that the husband is supposed to lead the family. If your LTR doesn’t want you to lead the family because she has been corrupted by feminism then your relationship was over before it started. There can only be one leader in the house and it has to be the man.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Meh, I'm a big fan of reaping what you sow, and making informed decisions.

You want kids? Despite all the talk about having a woman living together and having kids but not getting married, generally speaking, for most women they're going to want to get married (to lock down the long term resources) for if and when you have kids.

Right now, you're not into a place to make informed decisions. Oh sure, you think you are. But did you read the sidebar. Do you understand the risks and what a bad deal it is. Do you understand that the poor decisions you make now (sowing) will backfire on you in years to come (reaping). Similarly, do you understand that the good decisions you make now will bring you a feast in years to come. Are you lifting, in shape, fit? Jacked, juicy, and tan? Got abundance in your life?

Couple of additional comments.

She's going to lock you down by moving in together/buying your first place together (aww, how quaint). There's a reason why that is a Iron Rule of Tomassi. Don't move in together unless there is a ring on her finger (and seriously, don't use this comment as a excuse to do that).

This:

But I'm also not filled with confidence that what I hope these relationships could be is even possible. I'm not sure if a woman will ever love me the way I want to be loved

Is little bitch thinking. Don't be a little bitch.

I for one consider MRP to be a toolbox. Take what tool works. Discard what you don't want to use.

Your brain is also on heroin with this girl when you first met her. Crack cocaine. After 3 years the heroin wears off. Then you see what she's made out of.

Vet this girl, but have boundaries at the same time.

I once made a list of items from the Mystery Method that was a good starting point for a LTR. One thing I didn't consider, which should be added after I looked at some stuff on TRP, is: "If you were to get divorced, what would that look like." Would she go crazy. Or does she have the demeanor that she would be peaceable in the divorce. That's also hard to determine.

Your option 2 is probably your best bet. Get your job, fitness and shit in order before you make those decisions. Wait a few years before getting married.

I accept all Amazon gift cards for my comments.

[–]Captain_pants42 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

You have to completely remove sex from your mind and ask yourself, “Do I really like this woman? Do I like to talk with her and spend time with her? Are there emotional issues, or other red flags. Is she a responsible partner?”

All of these things will be all you’re left with after a few years...

[–]Work_ln_Progress[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is among the best advice so far. I know that this is what most people mean when they say 'vet her', but it's great to have a list of actual questions I should be asking myself.

[–]HeckleandChide5 points6 points  (11 children) | Copy

Married for 15 years, a bunch of kids. My wife is a SAHM who is a fitness trainer on the side. She's honestly a HB9 for her age, I'm a recovering not-as-fat faggot.

The short answer is that marriage, in my opinion, can be a significant value-add if you have excellent mate selection and you are the man you should be. In other words, for the vast majority of marriages, it's a fucking awful idea.

The long answer is that I was accidentally somewhat alpha (D1 athlete) and married very young to a very low N count girl who fell into fitness and somehow tolerated me descending into being a fat bitch for years. I got extremely lucky in that she had excellent role models for parents and believes strongly in traditional values like a submissive wife, dad leading the home, etc. After I got my shit straightened out, I can confidently say that she adds a significant amount of value to my mission.

Plus she sent me this today.

[–]UnbreakableFrame4 points5 points  (6 children) | Copy

There is no such thing as "... an HB9 for her age". This is BP bullshit and demonstrates a lack of understanding of abundance. You don't adjust attractiveness for age, because men with options don't have to stick to an age group. Women don't "believe" in anything. They demonstrate the behaviors requisite to get and hold onto the man that they want. It's really that simple.

[–]red-iron-man5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

This is BP bullshit and demonstrates a lack of understanding of abundance.

1.) Not all women age the same.

2.) There are some women in their 30's and even 40's who are still so hot to the point guys in their 20's want to fuck them (regardless of abundance).

You are autistic if you think this is impossible...

[–]HeckleandChide-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

Judging by the young 20s who stare at my wife when she deadlifts and does reverse hypers, you are correct.

[–]red-iron-man3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Whenever I hear a MRP or TRP guy say age trumps beauty I laugh and think "this guy must have a wife who aged pretty badly".

I often see women in their 30's and 40's who I'd fuck any day over the majority of 20 year somethings I see. Women in their 50's however I tend to agree. I rarely see a 50+ I'd want to F.

[–]InChargeManRed Beret4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

The other day just to kill time at the airport I counted every female between 23 - 50 that passed me. My goal was to see how long I would have to count until I found one more attractive than my wife. I got to 100 and stopped.

She is 36

[–]HeckleandChide2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Sorry you didn’t get a meme yesterday.

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Fuck me in the air tonight?

[–]HeckleandChide2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

“I” is already used in the word “in.”

[–]Cloudy_Pirate1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Suck me in the arm tonight? Kinky

Muck me in the ark tonight? Biblical

[–]HeckleandChide1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Now you’re talking!

[–]arm_candy1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

keep the relationship going but reduce the effort I put into it while I read and work my ass off for the next 6-12 months

What does this mean? Working your ass off and doing the bare minimum seem pretty much polar opposites. I’m legitimately curious how you see these playing out together. This sounds like you checking out of your relationship and essentially going Rambo.

[–]Work_ln_Progress[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

The wording was not great, I've changed it in OP now. Basically I meant minimising time invested into the relationship and working my ass off in other areas of my life (e.g. Lifting, career, social circle, etc.)

[–]arm_candy1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Have you started reading the sidebar at all? The effort MRP generally says you should put toward your relationship is specifically with on yourself. So I honestly don’t know what time investment you’re minimizing.

The only real “relationship effort” should be a about building your skills: game, leadership, shit test management, OI, etc.

[–]ArborioRice1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I can see married life laid out before me.

As can anyone if they just let the momentum of "what you're supposed to do" keep them going in that direction. The question then becomes: do YOU want married life? Never discount the power of the momentum of all these major life events GF-->engagement-->marriage-->house-->kids. You need to do serious soul searching to decide if you want any of those, in any order. And marriage is an accessory; if you don't want kids it's 100% unnecessary and useless. If you do want kids, pick the woman who is willing to have your kids with or without a ring, then decide. Nothing gets better with marriage, btw. NOTHING.

We're looking at buying our first place and she's made it clear that she wants marriage and 2-3 kids with me.

  1. Don't buy a place together, period. If you don't intend for her to be the mother of your children do not cohabitate.

  2. What she wants should have zero bearing on you; what you want for yourself is all that matters. She's not special, if she wants to draw lines in the sand and you don't want to nor are ready...she's free to go. You can find another woman easily, this is not a problem if you're working on yourself to be a RP alpha/chad/whatever. DO NOT ALLOW HER TO PRESSURE YOU INTO ANYTHING. The second she starts making noise about a ring or anything else, be prepared to next her.

I'm 35 with an infant; had I known at 24 what I know now I would have lived dirt cheap, developed my career (which I did), saved aggressively but traveled extensively. Maybe I'd have a gf to come with, maybe not. I don't regret settling down and I've always wanted a family but I'd redo my 20s totally differently and YOLO much more than I did instead of continually searching for a wife.

Otherwise, take the time to figure out your life goals and start living your life in congruence with those goals. If house/wife/kids are part of that, great. If not now or not at all...great. If your current GF is part of that, great. If not, plenty more women around. And if you do want kids, select your woman for maternity; innate maternity, not "oh she'll be a good mother someday i think" or she says shit like "oh maybe I want kids someday for reasons".

Women come and go, honestly they don't matter at all at your age; make yourself awesome and live the life you want to live for a while, then pick a girl if she's quality and aligns with what you want out of life.

[–]RingoLaBrea1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

No marriage before 30. Stay free, work on you see how she aligns, and whether she’ll add value to your mission. If part of your mission is to grow a family, great, but there’s plenty of time for that in your 30’s when you’re more firmly situated in your career, strength, and frame.

Age is a modifier to degree and application of red tenants. A womans behaviors from 20-30, 30-40, 40-50 and 50-60 require adjustments to expectations and response. As you build frame in your 20’s, you’ll be better equipped to steer the ship in your 30’s and beyond. Be thankful you have this community to learn from, and the time to perfect your application of it’s fundamental truths. There will always be factors and variables which may still work against your best efforts, but here provides you the best possible chance to grow towards effortless application.

A word of caution - stay steadfast in your vetting, do not overlook red flags due to sunk cost fallacy. 5 years out, if flags wave, save yourself.

In short, use this time on you. While she may not understand it (and will almost certainly resist), it will ultimately be better for her.

[–]RStonePT2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

  1. Who cares? I will say for sure that 'trapped' is never used in any guy who gets it in here

  2. it's YOUR FUCKING JOB to find your best option. the rest of hte guys here are about sorting out the 'how'

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Scorched Earth is how.

[–]RStonePT0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Kind of like your divorce proceedings and your outlook towards it.

[–]AnyHead0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

How old is your LTR? What is your/her career trajectory? I'm curious about her biological clock and where you are both at with your education, career, finances, etc. If she's younger than you, there's no need to rush regardless of what she's "made clear," especially if one of you is in grad school, deep in student debt, a candidate for job relocation, or something else like that.

My personal answers (expect a wide range of responses) would be:

  1. The latter for me. I "did the right thing" after knocking up a 6mo. girlfriend who I was highly compatible with. Never thought twice, just didn't want a baby mama, child support, "who's name goes on the birth certificate?" drama, etc. Knew nothing about TRP, "Marriage 2.0," any of it. Don't personally advocate for marriage but do appreciate the value of a consistent interpersonal point of reference over a long period of time.
  2. This is a weird question. Do you like the girl? What does you putting effort into a LTR have to do with the question of whether or not to draw up a legal contract and get the state involved? What would be the goal of reading and working your ass off for the next 6-12 months? To read more people telling you not to get married? To increase SMV, frame and dread to the point where your LTR quits bugging you about marriage and is just happy that you stick around?

You say you value relationships but also look to be playing an odd hostage negotiator role, which doesn't seem like the greatest of starts to a lifelong relationship. My 2 cents would be to put in as much effort as you normally would. Give it enough time to see for yourself whether she can "love you the way you want to be loved." If all you get over that time are more ultimatums that make you anxious, would you really need to "re-evaluate"?

[–]Work_ln_Progress[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

How old is your LTR? What is your/her career trajectory? I'm curious about her biological clock and where you are both at with your education, career, finances, etc. If she's younger than you, there's no need to rush regardless of what she's "made clear," especially if one of you is in grad school, deep in student debt, a candidate for job relocation, or something else like that.

  1. Less about biological clock (doesn't want to think about kids until 28-30) but is basically saying she doesn't want to waste her time if I'm not in it for marriage and children. Both starting out strong careers. Both figuring out where we want to go. I'm in a good field on $80k now, with lots of room to grow. She's at $72 and not as sure of her path. But definitely capable of progressing. No serious debt, Australia has very generous student loan systems.
  1. This is a weird question. Do you like the girl? What does you putting effort into a LTR have to do with the question of whether or not to draw up a legal contract and get the state involved? What would be the goal of reading and working your ass off for the next 6-12 months? To read more people telling you not to get married? To increase SMV, frame and dread to the point where your LTR quits bugging you about marriage and is just happy that you stick around?

I think part of the problem is that I'm not the man that I can be yet, I haven't put in all of the hard work that I need to yet. So I'm not yet deserving of the love that I want. By taking the time required to internalise the side bar and become a high value man, this will likely all sort itself out when SMV and frame are set and dread is calibrated.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

There is no official stance on marriage here, but as you can see there is a wide variety of opinions. Ya gotta get your own answer. Anything meaningful in life has an inherent risk/reward, and I find value with my marriage and kids despite the problems and work. Just be glad you have your eyes open far more than most your age. Also, get your head out of your ass about buying a house with her.

[–]Work_ln_Progress[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think the next step (in addition to internalising the side bar, lifting, etc.) will be to sit down and really figure out what my goals are. It's hard to do the cost benefit analysis without that information. And from there it is just accepting that commiting and not committing both come with risks and rewards. Once I understand these fully, the question becomes:

Which option aligns with my highest values?

[–]tightsleeves0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Having kids is the weirdest fucking paradox ever. I love them to death and would sacrafice my life for them.... And at the same time I would be fine if i never had them...

It's a hard job and if you don't step up your wife will take extra pressure and it won't go well for you.

It's a job that never ends. Late weekends don't exist anymore because they are going to wake up at 7am with 100% energy...

[–]yarmysmardarm0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

My musician friend, who is much better at putting thoughts to words than Ill ever be said, “fatherhood is like life on steroids. It makes everything ‘more.’ Joy is more joyful, dread is more dreadful.”

I found MRP after feeling trapped. I no longer feel trapped. I have depression so sometimes my “Life is good” gauge is a little off, but when the cloud isn’t over me, really my life has never been so good. I certainly didn’t think it would be this good still married to her. Gratitude for all things man. Life can be great if you don’t let it get bad.

[–]RedPillGlasses0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Wow pretty good question

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Don’t get married at 24. Don’t even think about marriage at 24.

Don’t get married.

[–]nantucketghost-3 points-2 points  (6 children) | Copy

Married, love being married. Those that have trouble are the ones that were too beta before marriage. If you're not, you'll have smooth sailing.

[–]tspitsatgp7 points8 points  (5 children) | Copy

This is so much bullshit.

[–]mrpmonk2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

Excuse me, I'm in an unfucking phase here. What's wrong with the above statement?

I thought marriage for the alpha is one way to get the helpmate to join an already fulfilling ride to aid the mission. Thus, being happy with your choice and the progress in your mission is a natural result

[–]RisingUpAgain13 points14 points  (3 children) | Copy

Navigating the lines of dominance and comfort with the same woman, whose seen your failures and faults, for years and years, and managing to keep that woman attracted to you is a lot of work. In no way would I classify it as “smooth sailing.”

Women have a wall, men have a mountain. And if you want that marriage to work and you want your wife to idolize you and want to fuck you..... well, you’ve gotta wake up every single day and go climb that fucking mountain. Every single day. Until you die. There is no finish line, just a mountain.

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

There's no finish line regardless of whether you're married or not. Apart from death.

We love to wax lyrical about being men, climbing mountains, fighting battles etc., but the reality is that it's only as difficult as you choose to make it or as difficult as you have made your own life to be.

The truth is that if you want something in life - whether that be a good relationship, good career, good bank balance, you have - at times - to work for it. But there has to be extended periods where these things work for you. Otherwise, there's no point in having them.

Not every day has to be a battle. You don't have to climb a mountain every morning. Some days you just sit at the top of the mountain and enjoy the view.

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

When you learn how to climb mountains for the first time it's fucking hard. You dont have the right gear, you're out of shape, take lots of breaks, and you hate leg day.

Then one day climbing mountains becomes easy.

My life is pretty damn easy and enjoyable now because my mental models are beginning to not view the next mountain as something to be loathed.

Some days you just sit at the top of the mountain and enjoy the view.

And you absolutely fucking should. Enjoy your successes for a bit. Enjoy the view.

But our greatest learning never occurred at the top of the mountain.

"There is no growth on the top of a mountain. Sure, the view is great, but what's a view for? The view just gives us a glimpse of our next destination - our next target. But to hit that target, we must come off the mountain, go through the valley, and begin to climb the next slope. It is in the valley that we slog through the lush grass and rich soil, learning and becoming what enables us to summit life's next peak."

[–]tspitsatgp0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

/u/mrpmonk, this guy gets it. The other guy is just making mouth noises.

Don’t look for a universal theory of things. You are a man, not a parrot.

[–]tap0988534-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

I happen to think part of a man's mission should include many children. Women are limited in their capacity for children, so I think 6 wives is a reasonable target for an exceptionally high valued man. Modelling after holy Roman emperor Charlemagne, he spent his life dedicated to excellent work, set up the European duchy system for governing, and became the most effective and innovative ruler the world had ever seen, overshadowing Augustus, and Marcus Aurelius.

Ignore the costs of government marriage, or think of it as a tax on a high valued life. A man should have many fine children. If you are successful, and honest about what you want, the money won't matter anyway.

The woman can never be the goal. They are accessories to a fine life. Find something you are passionate about that can be used to create wealth. Be as attractive as you can. Have many fine children with many beautiful women like Charlemagne and focus on achieving excellence, not the costs.



You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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