This post is in response to a post of 6 days ago by StrivingforTruth116. His post dealt with the issue of pre-marital sex.

I tried to post it in the comment section of his post, but my comment got rejected because it was over 1000 words. So I am posting it here. Please read this post as if it were in that comment section. Sorry for the hassle.

Here we go...

This is such a tough issues to deal with. Some of you will get upset at my saying that it's tough, and throw me out the window. That's fine. Go ahead and do that.

Back in the day of Jesus, this dude would have been married by 14-16 yrs of age and would have moved on with his life. he would hva ehad a 4-5 kids by now and would have no room for this issue to take up any more of his RAM.

But here we are today fighting over this stuff. We have still not figure this thing out yet. Yeah that's fine, go ahead and yell and scream at me and tell me how all of you black-and-white thinkers have it all figured out because you can't find 50+ verses to throw around. Good. You win...blah...blah...blah!

Now when you get done crowing about all your shallow victories, let me know when you are ready to have a real talk about pre-marital sex.

In the mean time, I will have my own talk here about pre-marital sex. Feel free to burn me at the stake or whatever it is that people do in our modern world.

Welcome to 2018 fellas. We no longer live in long cabins in Galt-Valley. we live in a world where every teenager has a smart phone and gets porn piped in from over 10 million different web sites.

We live in a world where marriage-age is getting pushed closer to 30 than it is to 15. What then shall we do with all the the urges that God put in us? What shall we tell all the young guys who have all that testosterone raging in them for years on end before they can get married? What about the rising rate of prostate cancer? What shall we do with that too?

So that's our advice? Really? Get married in some hurried fashion so the well-meanikng young guy can have some gal touch his -pee-pee? That's the best that we can do?

Wow?1? I thought this was a Red Pill thread. lol! Wow, hurry up and go get married?

Yeah, that's a good plan. Go get into a relationship where the chances are that you will be divorced in a few years and broke because of it. The dude will be paying alimony for ever and his kids will be ripped away from him and the child support will never end.

Why are we still saying this stuff? Just so the guy can get his rocks off? Come on guys. I think we can do better than that. For this young man here and also for the future of our movement, we need to figure out something to say other than just, "hurry up and go get married."

NO, don't hurry up and get married. Don't do it for financial reasons. Don't do it for sexual reasons. Don't do it because you feel shame. Don't do it because you might have gone to far one night and sinned somewhere along the way in some back seat of a car.

So how long exactly do we expect people to stay married in today's world? 50 years? Not if we are telling people to get married for any of the above reasons. Not even guys.

So they have a financial issue right now...This is not a reason to get married. It doesn't matter the financial issue...maybe they have a lot of money , or maybe they have no money at all. Either way, that's not a good reason to get married.

So they have a sexual issue right now...that's not a good reason to get married in our environment today either. Again, it doesn't matter what the sexual issue is...maybe they are having too much sex or not enough sex...those are not good issues to get married.

And you guys over there in the corner getting your Bible verses ready to come at me...you just stop it too! I know the verses.

It's malpractice to tell this poor dude to hurry up and go get married because he either has too much or too little money or too much or too little sex. Getting married will only compound his issues if he gets married for these types of reasons.

So where does that leave us?

The most conservative preacher in this country twill tell you it's crazy if you go buy a new care or truck and you don't kick the tires a little bit or look under the hood.

The most conservative preacher you know will say it's beyond foolish to buy a house and not get an inspection done on the property.

Everyone knows that's totally foolish to make such a purchase and not check the thing out.

But in today's world, marriage is far more expense than a car and it's also far more expensive than most houses being purchased today. Marriage is potentially your biggest pitfall.

Marriage can cost you everything financially.

And so why are we still telling guys to rub to the altar. Just so they won't have blue-balls? Man, that's an awful thing to tell guys in my opinion.

With everything at stake today, if anything, guys should be holding off and kicking the tires on the relationship in every possible way.

Well, what does that mean anyway? Shall we just keep fooling around in the back seat of the car and not get married? Shall we keep trying to get under her shirt so we can get a few thrills?

I still think it's a sin to get sexually involved before marriage. So you can go ahead and put all those related scriptures away. But, that doesn't help us with this huge problem that we have in the church today. Just saying something is a sin doesn't solve the problem.

What problem, you ask?

Here, you choose. Pick any of these problems and start trying to solve them: The problem of getting married later in life. The problem of not enough money. The problem of sexual comparability. The problem of divorce rates. The problem of living in a society that shames everyone way too much; and also the problem of living in a society where there is not enough shame. The problem of the whole legal system being stacked against males. The problem of 70% of divorces being initiated by females. The problem of no one staying home to watch the kids because Americans chase after a materialistic lifestyle. Add your 10 problems to the mix also and we might be getting closer to the expanse of the problem.

Again, I am encourage by this thread and all of the real conversation that takes place here.

I am also disheartened by all the judging and shame that goes on here.

Go back and ready the comment section again. How many times can you count the following:

The word fornication

The word sin

The word sex

Count all the shame gravy being thrown all over the place

Count all the shame trigger words being bandied about

Count all the times money is brought up

Count all the times people go on and on as they split hairs and argue about translations or ancient textual variations, etc.

Count all the times immorality is brought up.

Count all the times people talk about tips of penises or vaginas, or breasts, etc.

Count all of the times where any single person on here offered to reach out and talk to the poor guy.

Man it's so hard to get on here and not feel like I am back in the OT or NT world.

Please, someone...start throwing stones at this awful sinner. End it already. Put him out of this unsolvable misery...

So we can put some dude on the moon and we can't figure this thing out? Wow!

WE CAN DO BETTER THAN THIS...

I thought maybe I should hold off on sending this comment here, but I have already waited 4 days.

So are we to be perfect before marriage so that we can be flawed during marriage in this country?

How many divorces have we had in the past 40 years?

How many Dead Christian Bedrooms do we currently have in this country?

Why are we still struggling with all this?

It seems to me that we care more about the rules for pre-marital sex than we do about what happens after marriage.

We care more about shaming and judging people during their lives than we do about where they will spend their afterlives...

I don't care about how anyone gets to heaven...I don't care how many times they sinned...I don't care where they fell or came up short...my job is to help pick them up when they fall...my job is to have compassion and understanding and non-judgmental attitude when I see them struggling...I don't care how they get to heaven!

Yes, they should be upright...yes they should read scripture...yes they should pray...yes they should worship...

I don't care if a person runs joyously to heaven...I dont care if they had a deathbed confession...I don't care if they were scared into heaven...I don't care if they found Jesus just because they chose the least of two evils...Who cares??????? As long as they get to heaven, why do I can how they got there. As long as they get to heaven I know they will be taken care of when they arrive.

Why on Earth am I talking about how people get to heaven?

I think the same way about marriage. I don't care how they get to marriage in this world of ours today. But when they do get to marriage I want it to last. I want them to be crazy about each other. I want them to love each other. I want them to fight for each other. I want them to make good decisions. I want them to still be Christ followers and bring their children up in the Way.

I don't want to shame them because they didn't follow all the rules before marriage. I don't want to shame them and lose them to the world because we spent all that time shaming them instead of worrying about the log in our own eyes. I don't want to shame them until they no longer want to worship with Hypocrites. I don't want to shame them until we lose dialogue.

I want to be able to sit down with them and have thanksgiving dinner. I want them to call me when they have troubles and they can't figure it all out. I want to be there when their kids are born. I want all of it...and I want it all for them. And yes, I want them to know Jesus...the same Jesus I know.

I want them to know the Jesus who died on the cross for them. I want them to know Jesus...the same Jesus who was so concenred about closing people that he spent his last few breaths on this Earth trying to close a criminal. The same Jesus who battled satan over a a criminal while he tried to find his last breath. I want them to know the same Jesus who didn't ask that criminal if he had pre-marital sex or not. I want them to know THAT Jesus.

I want them to know the Jesus who died on the cross for our sins. I want them to know the same Jesus who requires nothing of us other than that we follow Him and tell others about him. That's all I want for them...and maybe for the tears to go away...that would be ok too.

I want them to do their best to remain pure until they get married. I also want them to know that if they miss the mark of that awfully high bar...that Jesus died for them. That Jesus did the hard part. That Jesus hung up on that cross and battled for their souls too. That Jesus did not expect us to be perfect...that He would fill in all the gaps and that he would come along behind us and clean up that massive mess that we will most surely leave.

How can I be saying these types of things some of you will most certainly ask?...How can I put down my stones?...

In John 8, Jesus asked me to put down my stones. He also asked the Pharisees to put down their stones. Yeah, go ahead and argue about. Tell me how He didn't actually tell them to put down their stones...but that he actually told the one without sin to throw the first stone...I know what he said. And he was speaking to me.

I don't know if He was speaking to you or not. Only you know that part of it. But I do know that on that day Jesus went against the Law of Moses. And I do know that they killed Him for it.

How many more people will we have to see killed before we reach out a non-judgmental hand and try to help them through this whole quagmire of craziness.

I think we can do better...

And while we are burning up all this RAM arguing and fighting over whether or not some dude should deny the raging hormones that GOD himself put in all of us...

Some guy out in Kansas is trying to find a gun tonight...and if he can find a gun, he will then look for some ammo...and then I promise you that tonight he will head out to the woods and do what he sees as his only choice in our world today...this world of shame and judgment!

Oh yeah, StrivingforTruth116 please feel free to contact me at any time of the day or night. I am for you man. I am for you and all of your tough times. I am for you and your good heart. I am for your trust in bringing this here to us for advice. I will stand with you whatever you decide.

David was a man after God's own heart. He had sin all over him. But he was a man after God's own heart. How can this be you ask?

Because he found a way to get rid of all the shame.

Jesus took care of our sin. Now we get to figure out how to get rid of the shame.

Please...let's start soon...

And yes, Jesus...please take away the tears too.

I love all of you...let's go and sin no more....

Joe Mak

PMC Member