Mental Point of Origin and Philippians 2

Deep_Strength · 2018-08-03T03:05:14+00:00

One of the big things you're going to need to do is throw out all of the secular RP stuff out of your head and focus purely on what the Bible says in proper context.

Philippians 2: 3-5 Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. 4 Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. 5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,

This is for general believers, just as Eph 5:21 "and be subject to one another in the fear of Christ." is also to the general Church population.

Contrast this to marriage:

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, 26 so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 that He might present to Himself the church [q]in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless. (1) 28 So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. (2) He who loves his own wife loves himself; 29 for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, 30 because we are members of His body. 31 For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and shall be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. 32 This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church. (3) 33 Nevertheless, each individual among you also is to love his own wife even as himself, and the wife must see to it that she [r]respects her husband.

Paul describes marriage in terms of Christ and the Church, and the analogy he uses is that the husband is to love his wife as his own body three different times. In other words,

The the husband is to emulate Christ, as Christ is the head of man (1 Cor 11)
The husband is to love his wife as his own body, which is to the standard of Christ.

In marriage, there is no "your wife's interests" or "your interests" as you are both one.

Now, consider:

How can you fully love someone if you’re running yourself ragged to meet someone’s other needs and not taking care of your own? Even Jesus took time to Himself without His disciples on many occasions to go off pray, fast, and likely de-stress from the hardships of life.

So yes, you must be spending time to take care of your own spiritual, emotional, mental, and physical needs so that you can love your wife as yourself. If you're not "loving yourself" to the standard of Christ, then you're not going to be able to love and take care of your wife well either.

This is one of the big fallacies that lead toward marital disruption that pastors can unwittingly preach in some cases. The husband is putting the wife before himself and trying to work, work, work to meet all her needs while neglecting his own. This is idolization/pedestalization of the wife and a distinct departure from the "love your wife as your own body" model.

"Loving yourself" is not about the world’s idea of loving yourself which is to build up your self esteem and any other new age stuff like that. It is about learning how to take control of your life that has spiraled out of your control due to being run ragged from life, from your wife, or from other stresses and turning it around to center yourself on your relationship with God. This is extremely important if you have let the things that you did previous slide into laziness or apathy

Red-Curious · 2018-08-03T17:03:02+00:00

1/2

This is an excellent question - and one I'm actually excited to answer! I've contemplated this issue since long before I even knew of RP or read any of /u/Rollo-Tomassi's stuff. The conclusion is actually a little weird if the Bible is true ... because Rollo's content is 100% right, but not necessarily in the way one would expect.

That said, I should note that you're comparing Rollo's DEscription of how the world operates with a PREscription that the Bible compels us to follow. Rollo has not suggested we defy the Bible. He's merely explaining how things work. You are drawing your own conclusions about what that understanding should compel you to do. But when you understand what the Bible has to say about frame, identity, and interpersonal interactions, we see that the Bible's prescription is fully aligned with Rollo's description.

Individual Identity in Christ

The issue stems from the concept of "identity." Who are you? Who are they? Any fans of The Walking Dead will know right away the phrase, "I am Negan." Negan is a community leader, but he develops a sense of oneness in his community to the point that they all self-identify with him and the "spirit" of his leadership. Unfortunately, the show does little more than display this as a symbol of loyalty.

But in the Bible, when Jesus says things like this, we see something very different at play: "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father ... Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me?" Jesus is saying that his very identity is defined by his Father.

Now we also know this is true for us. 2 Cor. 5:17 says that when we are saved we become a "new creation; the old has gone, the new has come." We are no longer ourselves. Our old self in the flesh remains only as an outward shell, whereas the fruit beneath is new and pleasing. In this regard, we don't define ourselves by our flesh, but by Christ in us. This is where our identity is found - and it is a oneness bond. That is why Ephesians 4:22-24 says that we are "to put off your old self ... and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness." It is also why Paul says separately in Romans 7:25 that he is still a "slave to sin" in his flesh, but a "slave to God" in his mind. Yet our identity is found through Christ in us, not in our flesh, which is why he says a few verses earlier that when he sins, "It is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me" - because his identity isn't derived from his sin, but from Christ living in him.

Marital Identity

We also know that the Bible references humans as being "one" in being this way too. Genesis 2 says that a husband and wife will become "one flesh." Malachi 2:15 extends this on a spiritual level by saying, "And why did the Lord God make them one, with a portion of his Spirit in their union?" See also 1 Cor. 6 and 2 Cor. 6 regarding the spiritual oneness that can be formed through sex. When practiced biblically, a husband and wife share a common identity on a spiritual level the same way that we share a common identity on a spiritual level with our spiritual groom: Christ, as we are his bride, the Church.

From there, the Bible even talks about this oneness between husbands and wives in more practical terms. In Ephesians 5, for example, Paul says something weird: "Husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. Indeed, no one ever hated his own body, but he nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church. For we are members of His body." This isn't just an intangible oneness that has no practical value. The new identity is created when a man leaves his father and mother to start a new life with his wife (per Genesis 2) means that when we are married we are no longer who we were before we were married - there is an actual identity change that takes place. This isn't merely a new situational circumstance that the world generally understands it to be.

Communal Identity

But this goes even further. Jesus prays in John 17:22-23 "that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me." This prayer actually takes it to another level: it's not just that our individual identity is found in Christ, or even our marital identity, but that we also have a communal identity among the body of believers.

This is why Paul says in Ephesians 5:32, after the above bit on a husband viewing his wife as his own body, "For we are members of His body ... This is a profound mystery, but I am talking about Christ and the church." He speaks of this "body of Christ" concept in 1 Cor. 12 and Romans 12 as if we all share a common identity defined by Christ, who is the head (Colossians 1:18).

That is also why Jesus' prayer in John 17 isn't just that they be one with Christ, but that they be one with each other - and to recognize the significance of this oneness that God intended us to have, not only in our purpose, but in our very identity, being united in Christ, as Christ is in all of us. Ideally, we should all be able to proclaim as Jesus did, "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father ... and that the Father is in me," just as the Father is in all of those who belong to his Church.

Instead of saying, "I am Negan," in the shallow sense of loyalty, we say, "I am a Christian" - literally a "little Christ", as that is the core of our identity. We are defined by Christ in us, for we are his groom and we are collectively his singular bride with one identity.

Tag: /u/Deep_Strength and u/palmorwrist - as this with part 2 would serve as a reply to your comments

SIC_redditcruiser · 2018-08-03T01:07:00+00:00

Even Jesus took time away for himself to pray and meditate. If you cannot meet your own needs then how do you expect to be able to meet the needs of others? When you love and serve others it's coming from the overflow of love you have in your heart. This love should be mostly from God, but you should also love & care for yourself enough that when you do serve others it's not coming from a place of people pleasing (if you are people pleasing then you are not actually serving from a place of loving others, but a place of selfishness).

Another thing I'll add is a little blurb from John MacArthur's Commentary: selfish ambition. This Greek word, which is sometimes rendered "strife" because it refers to a factionalism, rivalry, and partisanship, speaks of the pride that prompts people to push for their own way. conceit lit. "empty glory" and often translated "empty conceit." This word refers to the pursuit of personal glory, which is the motivation for selfish ambition.

Is making yourself your mental point of origin considered selfish ambition?

Only if you feel you are superior to others.

Is counting others (your wife) more significant than yourself the same as making her your mental point of origin?

No. I always think of Christ. The Church was more important than His life, but He did not neglect himself at the expense of others.

Is counting others more significant than self the same as "putting the concerns of others before your own"?

Depends if those concerns involve neglecting yourself or you God given ministry of leading your family. You can put others first while still caring for & loving yourself.

Hope that answered your questions:)

Edit: u/Red-Curious broke this down way better than I did.

RedPillWays · 2018-08-03T03:40:45+00:00

John 2:23–25 (NASB95): Now when He was in Jerusalem at the Passover, during the feast, many believed in His name, observing His signs which He was doing. 24 But Jesus, on His part, was not entrusting Himself to them, for He knew all men, 25 and because He did not need anyone to testify concerning man, for He Himself knew what was in man.

Swooping in to rescue the day isn't always what is best for someone. Sometimes they have to struggle and grow. That growth is what is best a lot of the time. I don't think you can pin point a percise action for each scenario. To that you would have to see both outcomes and then decide what is best for the person.

Title	Mental Point of Origin and Philippians 2
Author	Rojo-Gringo
Upvotes	7
Comments	11
Date	August 3, 2018 12:32 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RPChristians
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RPChristians/comments/944vw5/mental_point_of_origin_and_philippians_2/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RPChristians/mental-point-of-origin-and-philippians-2.301819 https://theredarchive.com/post/301819