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What was the best way to handle this?

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DeadGreek
December 21, 2019
22 upvotes
askMRP

I've been at this MRP stuff for a month. I've devoured nearly everything on the sidebar. I've read WISNIFG twice, NMMNG, MMSLP, RM, MAP, Poon, and Pook. I'm working my way through the RP sidebar and am audiobooking WOTSM. On day 1 I went to the gym and started Stronglifts 5x5 and haven't missed a workout yet. So Lift/Sidebar/[try to ]STFU. All this not to say "Oh I totally GET IT" but just to give some perspective that I have done some work before putting this out there.

Married 21 yrs, 2 boys 16 and 10. This morning we had an encounter fairly typical of the shit that's been going on for over a decade and I need some help deconstructing it. Wife and 10yo were going to an event this morning and my son needed to get some gear together. My wife, who has been a little more pleasant since I started this journey, came out and asked if I could help my son with an unexpected problem he was having with his gear. They were trying to get out the door, she wasn't fully ready herself. I don't find she's much for shit tests, but I did a quick shit test check anyways. The information was new to me; she was occupied with things she couldn't drop; we were in a time-sensitive situation. It's something I would have voluntarily done regardless of her asking. So, to my mind not a shit test at all and just part of participating in a functioning household. I immediately went in and starting helping him with his problem.

Here's where the classic pattern comes in. About 60 seconds after starting to work with him, with no problems, my wife stops her own prep to come in and insert herself into the situation. She is very controlling and believes that nobody can do anything as well as she can. This is her hallmark personality trait in all circles of her life, whether work or volunteering or church or especially at home. Now in the past, I'd have done one of two things. Either a) quietly endure the nonsense of 3 people working on a 2 person problem while she is now not readying herself; or b) show some butthurt and disengage.

I ran through what I learned so far as best I could quickly. I felt that her inserting herself changed the whole scenario and that there was now no need for me to be there. In a sense, it was a retroactive shit test. I decided that neither of my usual responses was acceptable. It seemed doing "a", even though it was basically STFU, was then failing a shit test. So I decided to extract myself like "b" but to do so as neutrally and matter-of-factly as possible, and not demonstrate butthurt. So I said "I see you guys have got this, then" with an upbeat, not snarky tone, and left the room to return to what I had been doing. I was very careful to keep my behavior calm and avoid any impression of bitterness. And in truth, I wasn't: I just put my mindset into "Is my son's need attended to? [Yes] And is this what I want to be doing? [No]"

So that's question 1 - what was the right approach here? I'm willing to accept that I botched this - I could use some outside perspective.

Part 2 is a few minutes later, she came out and read me the riot act for, in her eyes, getting all butthurt and stomping off. She was just short of yelling and going on about "unacceptable" behavior, "this is what cooperation is all about" and other very critical commentary, saying it was just "wrong". I pulled out a little WISNIFG with "I don't understand. Can you explain how what I did was wrong?" but after getting hit with "how can you not SEE what was wrong?" I just STFU. My mind was burning to get into the old "Why do you have to take control of fucking everything?" but I didn't do it.

Now our house is very small and arranged so you can literally hear everything anyone says, especially with raised voices. So a few minutes after that, I took her aside and said "regardless of our positions on the events of a few minutes ago, DO NOT EVER criticize me or belittle me in front of my children again." This belittling is something we have done to each other over the years. For my part I have stamped that out the last few months and definitely since putting together my MAP. But she doesn't know that and of course accused me of being a hypocrite while not acknowledging her own fault. I reiterated my position, ended the conversation, and they left for their event.

So question 2 - Even though I can't see that it was wrong for me to make clear that her behavior was wrong, is there anything wrong with the way I handled it?

Not looking for any validation here - I can handle the slings 'n' arrows.

EDIT: typos


Post Information
Title What was the best way to handle this?
Author DeadGreek
Upvotes 22
Comments 64
Date 21 December 2019 03:11 PM UTC (11 months ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/302472
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/edqyfv/what_was_the_best_way_to_handle_this/
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Comments

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret23 points24 points  (0 children) | Copy

My go to in the beginning was agree and amplify. If she corrects you on something just act totally retarded. If you are putting on soccer cleats on your 10 year old and she inserts herself, tell her “oh, thank you. I was struggling with these. A few minutes ago I had the shoe laces strangled around his neck. Good thing you pointed me in the right direction. Wink.” She will likely get huffy or call you an asshole. Repeat this a few more times and she will likely stop inserting quite so frequently. It is a more light hearted way of telling her to fuck off.

You have a long uphill climb my friend, but not much different than some others who have come through here. She is definitely the captain at your house. It will get worse before it gets better. Good luck taking your balls back.

[–]RisingUpAgain30 points31 points  (1 child) | Copy

Have you ever tried taking control of the situation with a, “Babe, I got this. Really. Go get ready.” She just sounds like a neurotic woman who needs to be reassured she doesn’t need to handle absolutely everything.

As far as the second part. The longer you lead by example and refuse to devolve into blaming matches the more likely she is to curtail that behavior. Right now she’s just waiting for you to start slinging mud back and confirm her suspicions. She still thinks you’re both keeping score.

[–]EmbracedBiology0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The second part is generally a key thing I noticed in other situations.

I am nowhere near even close to being MRP approved, but I did notice that whenever I changed an approach on something, it does take weeks before she finally accepts the new me. Until then she - as you said - waits to have her suspicions confirmed.

We're creatues of habit. And if a person you know suddenly acts differently, you wait for them to slight back into known behavior before you accept the new self. Otherwise, you would need to re-assess every other day. Way too stressful.

[–]HeckleandChide10 points11 points  (12 children) | Copy

First, good job on actually starting to own your shit. It's refreshing to see a new guy come in who is putting in the work.

​

Second, read Jack10's posts. All of them. Here's a post that linked all of them. His entire approach was probably the best on amused mastery of anyone I've read on here in the past few years. He doesn't comment anymore, unfortunately.

​

Third, read and really think hard (play it out all the ways it affects you) on this post about the 1,000' rope that you need to recognize in your marriage. Basically, she's used to a pussy and she won't respond to the new you because to her, the new you doesn't exist yet.

​

Fourth, this is a marathon and you can't change her. If you do this to change her, a) it's a covert contract and you aren't doing for the right reasons and b) succeed or fail, you will fail in the ultimate mission. So slow down. Don't measure success in the day-to-day by how she is acting or speaking. She's a woman, for God's sake. She can barely control that, let alone you. Focus on you. Keep your head down and grind away.

[–]DeadGreek[S] 5 points6 points  (11 children) | Copy

Thanks for all this. Want to clarify that I am not surprised/disappointed by the outcome given my 20+ years of beta behavior. But right now I'm on a bit of information overload, this shit isn't coming from first principles yet, just wondered how more seasoned eyes could recommend a different approach.

[–]HeckleandChide4 points5 points  (10 children) | Copy

Here's the immediate take away. Other than STFU and OYS, there's nothing you can do or expect for months as far as interactions with your dominant wife. If you aren't willing to accept that, then either go back to being beta or move on from her.

If you are willing to move through that experience to see what's on the other side, then keep doing what you are doing and don't expect success now or soon from a "she is treating me differently" perspective.

[–]FoxShitNasty833 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Exactly this shit can literally take years. Keep doin the work dont be a dancing monkey.

[–]arm_candy2 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy

This is terrible advice. He can absolutely respond with AA or AM. He can also do the calm and controlled “Babe, I’ve got this. Go get ready.” STFU is not the only thing he should be doing for 6 months.

He shouldn’t expect her to turn around her behavior overnight, but he also shouldn’t neglect improving his own reactions.

[–]HeckleandChide0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy

He's already tried the "babe, I've got this." And she blows up, he crumbles, and the pattern goes on. She blows up because when he pushes back on her, she sees a faggot. And she'll see a faggot until he has made significant changes in his life... which take months. You guys are telling him to run before he can walk.

[–]RisingUpAgain2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

“Here's where the classic pattern comes in. About 60 seconds after starting to work with him, with no problems, my wife stops her own prep to come in and insert herself into the situation. She is very controlling and believes that nobody can do anything as well as she can. This is her hallmark personality trait in all circles of her life, whether work or volunteering or church or especially at home. Now in the past, I'd have done one of two things. Either a) quietly endure the nonsense of 3 people working on a 2 person problem while she is now not readying herself; or b) show some butthurt and disengage.

I ran through what I learned so far as best I could quickly. I felt that her inserting herself changed the whole scenario and that there was now no need for me to be there. In a sense, it was a retroactive shit test. I decided that neither of my usual responses was acceptable. It seemed doing "a", even though it was basically STFU, was then failing a shit test. So I decided to extract myself like "b" but to do so as neutrally and matter-of-factly as possible, and not demonstrate butthurt. So I said "I see you guys have got this, then" came out and read me the riot act for, in her eyes, getting all butthurt and stomping off. She was just short of yelling and going on about "unacceptable" behavior, "this is what cooperation is all about" and other very critical commentary, saying it was just "wrong"”

What part of this says, “babe I’ve got it,” and taking a load off of his neurotic and over burdened wife?

Sounds like OP ran an autistic spread sheet analysis, saw there logically there were three people doing a two person job, and went to jerk off at the table by himself. When what his wife really wants is to feel like her idiot of a husband can do something by himself without her help.

It’s obvious over the years that OP has lost the trust of his wife, doesn’t own his shit, and let’s her pick up the slack. He needs to establish that he’s GOT IT, not just wait for momma to take control and let him off the hook. It wasn’t a shit test, she actually thinks he isn’t capable and he’s not going to change that by reading books, he’s gotta act.

He doesn’t have to go Rambo red but Jesus he could try to manage some things once in a while, and when that harpy bitch tries to take over, tell her to fuck off, cause you got it.

[–]arm_candy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Don’t come in here with your reading comprehension and moderate expectations!

[–]arm_candy1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

No, he hasn’t. In this case he said "I see you guys have got this, then" and walked away butthurt. He’s shutting down autistically and you’re telling him to keep doing this for another six months instead of actually learning to fix himself.

Basic communication skills are not “running”. Most people here are just telling him to try taking a single step and you’re here shouting “Whoa, what’s the rush Rambo?”

[–]HeckleandChide0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Exactly. He doesn’t even have enough frame to pull off STFU with any type of OI or frame yet you recommend pushing back / AA / AM?

He’s gonna get smoked.

[–]arm_candy1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

You’re an idiot. You can’t pull off autistic STFU with frame. There are a thousand threads about moving past STFU because it’s not a strategy for growth or communication. It’s purely a coping strategy to stop the bleeding and to give you space to develop actual frame and healthy responses.

He’s gonna get smoked.

Good. Then he has a chance to learn. Choosing to not even try for six months is a recipe for stagnation.

You’re a great cheerleader for losers who don’t want to put in the work, though.

[–]HeckleandChide0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You don't understand STFU if you think it's "not a strategy for growth or communication." STFU, when done correctly, generates & conveys mystery, OI, frame, abundance, power, etc. It's one of the most important, potent tools in a man's arsenal. Mastering it is far more important than AA / AM and - fortunately for OP - much more accessible than those other tools.

You need to shut the fuck up because you are talking when you should still be learning. You aren't worth any more of my time.

[–]arm_candy-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don’t think you have shit to teach. You’re literally telling this guy not to try very hard.

HornsOfApathy called you right.

[–]MrChad_ThundercockBig Red Machine16 points17 points  (13 children) | Copy

“she read me the riot act”

Fuck.that.

If she can talk to you like that- she doesn’t respect you. You aren’t the Prize. She is. There’s no attraction.

Treat her like a child, AA everything. Take the lead and start taking charge. You so wrapped up in what she thinks. Stop walking on egg shells around her. Stay with 5x5.

Edit:

“She’s controlling”

Simple: Because you aren’t LEADING.

Do you take her to pound town?

[–]HeckleandChide6 points7 points  (12 children) | Copy

You do realize you are talking to a 20 year beta who is likely married to someone who is a naturally dominant personality, right?

​

This advice is basically "Go Rambo" given his context. It won't work or be effective because she is operating off 20 years of beta as her reference point.

[–]tspitsatgp7 points8 points  (11 children) | Copy

Sometimes you need to go Rambo to mix things up a bit, reset and find a new normal. After 20 years of this shit he needs to blow some shit up again to feel alive.

[–]HeckleandChide20 points21 points  (10 children) | Copy

Let's review. He's an admitted weak faggot with 2 decades of being asleep at the wheel in a relationship with a ball-busting, pee-standing-up wife who is probably dominant by personality.

And the advice is for him to "take her to pound town" and "take the lead / start taking charge / stop walking on eggshells."

That's fucking horrible advice for him. That's like me telling my 13-year-old son to go squat 4 plates and just "sit back with your chest up." This guy is going to get pancaked by her if he does that, just like my son would get pancaked by 405. They aren't ready for it.

For shits and giggles though, play that out. OP goes Rambo and lasts for what, 3 days? A week? How long until a guy like him crumbles back into his prior ways? Especially against a dominant wife who knows all his shit from the past 20 years and can play him like a fiddle. Then what happens? Once she knocks him back into place, she's going to think he's an even bigger faggot than before and so will he. The guy needs to pull back, gather himself a bit, and make incremental progress.

I know this goes against the current aggressive mood in this sub. Guys look at dudes like HoA and RedButtPlug and think that's how they need to act right now. The problem is that the guys reading that advice are trying to use tools that they haven't earned. They aren't HoA or Red. And shit that would work if HoA or Red walked into the relationship won't work for them, both for historical (wife has seen 2 decades of faggotry) and current reasons (dude is still currently a mostly weak, mostly beta guy).

This guy needs to STFU, lift, and sidebar for another six months at least before he does some of what the top poster mentioned. Why? Because if he does STFU, lift, and sidebar for six months, his wife likely will consciously or subconsciously start to respect him more and be more willing to step back a little bit as he steps forward. Or, she may not but he'll have more of a spine to be able to deal with the inevitable shit tests that will flow forward. Right now, he's not there.

We need to tap the brakes just a bit on the aggressive advice with newbs, especially ones that are willing to put in the effort. MCT's advice might sound good to the average reader but in this context, it's fucking horrible and stupid advice. The dude isn't capable - at this point - of dealing with the aftermath of those actions.

[–]arm_candy1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Because if he does STFU, lift, and sidebar for six months, his wife likely will consciously or subconsciously start to respect him more

No she won’t. If he lifts for 6 months, he’ll look a bit better. If he reads for 6 months and shuts up like an autist for 6 months, he won’t make any progress mentally or with his wife because you don’t internalize by reading. You need to put stuff into practice. He absolutely should be practicing AA or AM. Shut down butt hurt is what he’s already doing. He’s not going to turn around his mentality or behavior until he pushes beyond that. His wife won’t respect him more until she sees a behavior change either.

[–]tspitsatgp1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy

You forget that MRP is about saving the man, not the marriage. And men typically don’t make real changes until their world-view has been majorly challenged — until they have a fire lit under their asses by some event. A death, a cheating spouse, a realisation that their spouse or kids detests them, an existential crisis, etc.

We can not know the inner workings of the mind of every wank that comes to this place, so it is entirely up to them to parse the information and implement it in a way that works for them. They will get a range of feedback, and ultimately this is the beginning of owning their shit, deciding which tidbits they are going to listen to and implement in a fashion that is congruent with their core belief system.

Handling them with kid gloves is a waste of time - they are adult men. If they want fluffy self help quotes they can piss off to Instagram.

P.S. if you think HoA and Red are aggressive then you don’t read people very well, they are soft teddy bears with mushy insides, desperately trying to keep the bad feelings at bay.

Edit: oh, and if the fuckers actually read the sidebar they would be able to parse the feedback pretty easily.

[–]HeckleandChide2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy

Good points. I'll leave it at this: the advice I'm giving is to save the man, not the marriage. I think that if he tries to push back against her right now, take charge, implement some AA / AM, etc., then she is going to smack him down like a little bitch and then he'll conclude that this MRP stuff is bullshit anyway and live the rest of his days as a sad little man.

Think of it in weightlifting terms. Maybe you want to squat 405 but only squat 225 right now. You don't go out tomorrow and try to squat 335. You aim lower and try to hit 235 or 240. Incremental gains + slow progress is better for long term progress.

That's saving the man, not the marriage.

[–]tspitsatgp4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

I think you are right btw, being too Rambo prematurely isn’t necessarily good, but many of the guys are licking the pill, not swallowing it, and as such won’t ever make any real progress.

[–]Goobergus_Gubbins1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Agree. I'm learning a lot on this thread. Finding MRP 30 years in, I'm going pretty hard on improving my own frame and value, going slow with "frog in a pot" approach in regards to interacting with my wife. She is a very capable and astute human being, and it becomes very obvious when I'm pushing my outward game faster than my inner game can support. But that's me. There are some impressive success stories on here where guys went from flabby and dead bedrooms to jacked and all kinda kinky shit in six months. Every man has to absorb as much quality information as he needs, and carve out his own approach.

[–]hack3geRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I’m with you I prefer action over inaction. I went fucking Rambo hard but I did so intentionally - I found my frame very quickly and gave zero fucks about her coming along or not.

Most guys don’t have the frame to do this so they Rambo and get put back in their little box - the ones that do typically can handle the blow back.

[–]MrChad_ThundercockBig Red Machine0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

“he'll conclude that this MRP stuff is bullshit anyway”

Who gives a fuck what he thinks.

[–]HeckleandChide2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Me. That's why I'm here. Why are commenting if you don't care?

[–]tspitsatgp0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Hey there Red Knight.

[–]DeadGreek[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

He's an admitted weak faggot with 2 decades of being asleep at the wheel in a relationship with a ball-busting, pee-standing-up wife who is probably dominant by personality.

All correct. And there's no "probably" about it, she is one of the most assertive people I've ever met, male or female. The stuff of legend in these parts.

This guy needs to STFU, lift, and sidebar for another six months at least before he does some of what the top poster mentioned.

Ultimately I know that's what this comes down to. Just looking for some QA along the way. And although I appreciate the "go to pound town" mindset...that ain't happening. I'm sparing everyone the epic backstory just to keep the focus on this one tactical situation/question, but there's a lot more here. All in all: a weak drunk captain faggot, eating a landfill of shit a teaspoon at a time.

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret11 points12 points  (2 children) | Copy

The fact you made a whole post on this means you were butthurt. Stop lying to yourself. Otherwise you would have just laughed to yourself and said "silly woman", walked off and forgot all about it. Butthurt likely from feeling you aren't in control and pissed all these years she has had your balls.

You are also autistically butthurt.

Bottom line: she read through this bullshit just like I have. Even if there is a little tiny button butthurt they can see right through it, then shit test you in this case with the "riot act". Pretty standard in an early MRP journey.

Just keep lifting and reading and STFU. All expected as you learn how to develop frame and outcome independence

Nothing to see here.

[–]DeadGreek[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

I lol'd when I read this b/c having written it all out I thought the same thing right before I hit "post". But I posted anyways b/c I need to take some shit. Thanks for this.

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Then just ignore the rest of the retards here and get to work. You know what you need to do.

[–]ImNotSlash5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

My mind was burning to get into the old "Why do you have to take control of fucking everything?" but I didn't do it.

Yea but she still may have seen it; little lip curl, cocked eyebrow, clinched jaw, standing up straighter, etc.

Instead, think baseball or ravaging her pussy. "God, I could fuck the shit out of you right now."

DO NOT EVER criticize me or belittle me in front of my children again

This doesn't mean shit. Think of relevant consequences then enact without warnings. If you've been doing this for years warnings don't mean shit.

[–]LivingRPLife2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Hold up. You’ve read some books and started your MAP but all she sees is the you of the last 15 years. Were you leading then? Were you a drunk captain? It will take time for your changes to be part of the new authentic you, and longer for her to trust you to lead and not screw up.

Don’t show butt hurt. All I see is Cartman screaming “respect my authority!” Just relax man, lead in all areas and when she sees that the drunk captain has become an alpha captain, she will stop the nonsense.

[–]ur-2380 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yes, let’s turn around 25 years of being a pussy in ‘a month’.

[–]Smuggler-Tuek2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

It’s to be expected that she responded like she did if you have never set a boundary before. She assumed you are being a butthurt child because that’s how you used to act. Leaving the situation was correct and I’ve had the same type of misunderstanding where she thinks I’m upset and my response was always “I promise I don’t care enough about this to be upset.” Keep doing what you did and it will get better with time. She has to see the change over time to believe it.

[–]DeadGreek[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah I think that's where I arrived at with this. Standing up and leaving due to two completely different mindsets looks exactly the same. So part of it is that whole "man if only she knew that I'm processing this differently" while still S'ing TFU. It's a real mind fuck for me at this point.

[–]Frosteecat2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Alternate viewpoint: maybe you act Beta when interacting with your son & don’t see it but she does? How we handle our offspring and household are huge benchmarks in this process. I noticed a marked change in her behavior/attitude when I stopped negotiating everything with my sons and just told them to handle their shit.

[–]DeadGreek[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'll admit it's possible. I've been trying to watch that since discovering MRP and starting to put the work in. More accurately, I've been monitoring that my interactions with my sons is authentic (true to myself) and positive (encouraging to them). If she finds fault with that then oh well.

[–]kyengraver1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

25 years of marriage, 23 1/2 years as a drunk captain. In the last year or so I’ve encountered this same situation (my sons are 19, 16, and 10)..... with a smile, physically turn her around, slap or pat her on the ass and say...”I appreciate your help young lady, but I got this. Take care of yourself, so you’re not late.”

[–]rocknrollchuck1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I see a lot of advice here where one guy is telling you to do one thing, and another guy is telling you to do another. This is where personal calibration comes in based on your particular dynamic. What would be good advice for one guy is horrible advice for someone else. You've got to try different things and see what works. But more importantly you've got to figure out what YOU can actually implement successfully. It doesn't matter how good the advice is if you can't figure out how to make it work right now. Over time you will develop an approach that fits you.

[–]RedPillGlasses1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

She is very controlling in all aspects of her life, whether at church, work, volunteering.

I literally have no fucking idea why men voluntarily choose to be with harpies like this.

Get big, get rich, get divorced.

You’re welcome.

[–]DeadGreek[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I don't either. Sweetest girl when I met her. Outgoing and assertive to be sure, but just a delight in all her interactions. I accept that where she is now is my fault. But as far as the totality of who she now is, a lot of those seeds were planted before I ever knew her.

My brothers-in-law and 2 ex-BIL's and I have often discussed these traits common to my wife and her sisters.

[–]BarracudaRP1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Good work on your journey so far, Greek. I could relate to a lot of what you're facing at home.

Neo:
What are you trying to tell me? That I can dodge bullets?

Morpheus:
No, Neo. I'm trying to tell you that when you're ready, you won't have to.

Congrats on step one, seeing the bullets and learning we can do something about them. It may be true that your frame is not large enough to ignore bullets yet, but you don't have to keep taking bullets to the face in the mean time. Eventually you will arrive at the place where you don't need to engage her, because you realize the bullets aren't even real. That's a real place, some of us are there, and you'll get there. Until then, your tools of A&A, AM, Broken Record and Withdrawing Affection are the weapons you need to stop losing in these interactions with your wife. Your way forward is through her shit tests, not around them. This is not the time for a tactical retreat for you to get stronger before engaging with your wife. How do I know this?

she came out and read me the riot ... just short of yelling and going on about (my) "unacceptable" behavior, "this is what cooperation is all about" and other very critical commentary

She is taking a big shit on your boundaries, because she knows she can. This was a power play on her part, and while your response wasn't terrible, there are a couple things you can do better next time:

So I said "I see you guys have got this, then" with an upbeat, not snarky tone, and left the room to return to what I had been doing

You failed by leaving. You came to help in response to your wife, then you left the situation because of your wife. Your actions are reactive, not pro-active. Finish the task, because you're a capable man who fixes his universe one shoe at a time. One of the other comments nailed it: "I've got this babe, you go finish getting ready." I am guessing your wife won't comply, she may even double down and get angry that you're trying to dismiss her. That's because this is a shit test, and it has more to do with her ego than you or your son's gear.

And how do we handle shit tests? Let's start with a simple Broken Record: "Babe - I said I've got this. You go finish getting ready." That didn't work, she's still shitty and present? Let's borrow from u/justpickanyusername: "I'm glad you're here to supervise, a few minutes ago I had the laces around his neck."

I pulled out a little WISNIFG with "I don't understand. Can you explain how what I did was wrong?" but after getting hit with "how can you not SEE what was wrong?"

Damn, she's good at this. Are you sure your wife's not reading NMMNG too? I joke, but her response was a hard one to overcome. Again, it's a shit test. If you have nothing else to say, just Broken Record on your excellent reply. "You're right babe, I don't understand. Can you explain how what I did was wrong?"

I took her aside and said "...DO NOT EVER criticize me or belittle me in front of my children again."

It sounds like you already recognize that this was weak. I used to say shit like this to my wife too. You know what works better? Using my actions to show her what is unacceptable to me. This will be more effective when you're further along, but it doesn't mean you can't start now. Withdrawing affection/attention is not a punishment. You control her access to this relationship, much like your wife controls your access (for now) to sex. You may be giving your wife attention, affection, words of encouragement etc. simply because she's your wife; you may need to develop a boundary (and some self respect) to only give those things to people in your life who deserve them. Would you be this kind to anyone else in your life who treats you the way that she does? No, and she's no exception. This is not to be confused with a Covert Contract, by the way. We are not withdrawing affection in the hopes that she will do something - we are drawing a line in the sand where your boundaries begin.

[–]DeadGreek[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

You failed by leaving...

Thanks for the pure gold scenario layout. As I was reading the paragraph I thought "well what next smart guy - oh wait you thought of that" and then did that again at your next paragraph. Because that's exactly how it goes with her, she is tenacious.

Damn, she's good at this. Are you sure your wife's not reading NMMNG too?

Well she's got a counseling degree and background. At risk of sounding like I think I'm some sort of snowflake with a unique problem, I gotta tell y'all I searched this subreddit and MRP for hours and have yet to come across anecdotes of a wife with these unique traits (alpha/dominant personality, is a black belt in counseling judo). If anybody recalls such a thread I would love to read it.

[–]BarracudaRP0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

counseling degree and background

Heh, literally the same with my wife. It certainly doesn't make things easier for me, but the same rules apply to her as any other woman.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

the "do not disrespect me..." rant is gay, demonstrates uncertainty.

she is testing you for how confrontational you can be. totally agree and amplify in the most over the top way possible and let her overboil and make a complete fool of herself in front of the kids and then let her and the kids know what just happened.

"oh my god you're right like that was totally insane of me to walk off from a situation that didnt need me i mean what would happen if i wasnt here at all it might have even gotten done as well!"

match her aggression throw it back at her, mixed in with stfu. in time you will get the feel of when to stfu and when to agree and amplify, you will become so unpredictable she will enjoy it. when you do this she will realise you control her emotions and she will melt.

by the sounds of things once you match her aggression her kinky side will come out in the bedroom. be careful which beast you want to tame, this one sounds fun but you might not be ready for it.

good luck my friend and congratulations on joining the zero point fuck all percent of the population who can truly face themselves.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

The kinky side comes out? Where is that article? I'm trying to find the part where I train my wife to be a dirty slut. I'm reading the sidebar I swear. I just want the shortcut to THAT post. The unleash post.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

oh my we have a clever one here

[–]DeadGreek[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

the "do not disrespect me..." rant is gay, demonstrates uncertainty.

Totally gay, agreed. At the time it seemed like speaking clearly, without anger but with conviction and clarity, was a small step forward. But without teeth, yeah, it doesn't mean shit.

Wait - did you really just delete your account? Am I talking to myself?

[–]Maximus_Valerius0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

How do you know that she started helping because she wanted to be controlling and could do it better than you?

[–]DeadGreek[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Fair question. Like anything else in life, I can only say "highly certain based on past behavior". The context is that she stopped readying herself - the pretext for why I was stepping in to help - to have a no-do-it-my-way moment. And FWIW we weren't struggling.

[–]Maximus_Valerius3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

In other words, that’s your assumption based on hundreds of interactions you have had. It’s the narrative that you tell yourself in these situations.

Your narrative is that your wife inserting herself is her way of communicating that you can’t handle the situation yourself. Put more simply: You are not good enough.

Your narrative also assumes that your wife has the right to judge you. There’s a Nice Guy issue there below the surface. You might want give that some thought.

At some point, you may want to challenge your narrative. Or at least be conscious of the fact that you are running on autopilot based on your narrative. Then you can start to make connections between your narrative/mental model and your (unattractive) behaviors.

For now, get out of your wife’s head.

[–]Goobergus_Gubbins0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

The other comments here are solid. I would add that we fixed this in my house 20 years ago. I calmly stated, "If you ever feel the need to criticize how I'm doing a task, or the need to suggest a better way to do it, you are volunteering to take over that task permanently. You can proceed however it seems wise to you." She has never, ever complained or suggested after that point.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Yes the other comments here are solid. I also did what you said in my house. It was about dishes I think. It basically boiled down to us talking about it and saying if one ever criticizes the other they are asking to do the task. It might be tough in this household though. The OPs wife doesn't think he can do anything right. Asking for that trust will be difficult. Sorry getting that trust will be difficult. Although that should not be the goal I think

[–]Goobergus_Gubbins0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I see what you are saying. It might get the OP better mileage to go with "Babe, relax. I've got this." More immediate and addressing that instance head on.

[–]DeadGreek[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Appreciate both the comments. I know we did this ages ago (the criticism = task ownership policy) but that was me without a frame, so it didn't stay enforced. No harm in bringing that back into play now that I have a better footing.

[–]wkndatbernardus0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You are thinking about small, particular interactions with your wife when your mind and energy should be put into the big, consequential questions of your life. Formulate some answers there and you won't be consumed by this day to day minutiae.

[–]theunconquored0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I've been at this MRP stuff for a month.

This is standard stuff, dude. After a month, you've barely started to change. She is a reflection of you. All of this is just her, being her, as she's had to be to put up with your pussy ass for the last 20 years.

We can't tell you a "right approach" or tell you if you were right or wrong in handling it. It's up to you. You have to develop the frame and the self confidence to handle these things on you own, in your own way. You clearly understand the concepts. You just haven't really started to apply them.

The only secret sauce to all of this is consistent effort over time. Stop letting her engage you in arguments. That's just you either defending yourself or explaining yourself. Of course she's going to assume your butthurt. She has 20 years of experience to assume that's the case.

Just don't take yourself or all of this too seriously. And definitely don't take her too seriously. She's just being what you've trained her to be.

Stop DEERing. Be fun. Don't argue. Build your own frame, slowly, but with ruthless silence. You don't tell her how to react to it, you watch how she reacts. It'll take years to unprogram her, just like it took years to program her.

Or just get hawt and dump her for someone better looking and half her age.

[–]Temp_Shelter0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Why is the wife the one that usually helps with your son? Do you currently have the relationship you want with your kids, or is there an opportunity there to OYS more?

[–]DeadGreek[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This was an activity they were getting ready to attend together. Not her dropping him off at a thing; they were going to be co-participants. So when we have things like then prep is part of the activity together unless help is requested like here. I don't find that to be beta, but tell me if I'm off base. It's just a smart division of labor in my book that works pretty well for our household. Like if I'm taking one or both sons camping, I'm helping them pack if they need it; wife stays out of it.



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