Guys who are into fitness - how good of a shape did you have to get into before you've noticed your SMV clearly increase?

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January 15, 2020

Don't get me wrong - I think being into sports is great for many different reasons, but I've noticed that appearance-wise women tend to talk about wanting "a normal guy, not a buff one" by which they mean this instead of this. Not realizing that even the former requires way more effort and commitment than just going to the gym two days a week and laying off Mountain Dew.

So, guys who actually managed to max out your looks through fitness - how much did you have to invest before it paid off? Before it became clear that women are turned-on by your body?

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Title Guys who are into fitness - how good of a shape did you have to get into before you've noticed your SMV clearly increase?
Author Former-Rabbit
Upvotes 145
Comments 202
Date 15 January 2020 11:25 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit askTRP
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[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguardbsutansalt[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (7 children) | Copy

So, guys who actually managed to max out your looks through fitness - how much did you have to invest before it paid off?

If you are average, then you do not have to "max out your looks through fitness" before you'll see huge improvements to your SMV and women's reactions to you begin to improve. However, the key thing to understand here is that it's all relative.

For example, if you're 400lbs and lose 100lbs, you're still a 300lb fatty, so dont' expect women to randomly touch you and fondling your arms at the club. On the other hand, if you're currently, say, 6' tall, but only 150lbs, and you and put on 30lbs of lean muscle, then you're damn right the world will change for you. Get the idea?

Similarly for short guys, get wide. When you can pick women up and twirl them over your head, that's when you get the "he's not normally my type, but..." Being visibly STRONG is how you overcome being short, bar none. Good game helps, but you need that visual to get your foot in the door to override the lack of height.

[–]Ireallydownknowhey176 points177 points  (34 children) | Copy

You will never get "too big" as a natural. Even if you hopped on the juice you might not get big enough, we are talking Olympia status genetics here (very rare).

Just eat right and get on a good program and you'll get good results.

[–]Former-Rabbit[S] 46 points47 points  (29 children) | Copy

You will never get "too big" as a natural. Even if you hopped on the juice you might not get big enough, we are talking Olympia status genetics here (very rare).

Don't worry, I get that. I was just curious when did you get to the point where results were too hard to ignore for women.

[–]MyRedGlasses48 points49 points  (27 children) | Copy

Brad Pitt in "Fight Club", although he was under sub 10%, and on gear. So, somewhere along the lines of 10-12% BF as a Natty.

[–]Truedemocracy638 points39 points  (21 children) | Copy

Low body fat % is more important than strength I’ve found. Don’t get me wrong, you need both. But women find a body at 10-12% bf and can have maybe a 1000 pound lifting total to be hotter than someone with a 1800 pound lifting total but 17-20% bf

[–]isthisalreadyused10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy

Women don’t give a shit about lifting totals unless they are into lifting themselves. Even then it’s not much. Lifting totals are something for us guys to jerk off over.

Women want the muscular, tight body that come with good lifting totals

[–]Truedemocracy61 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yea agree, and you get that body as a man much quicker than most think.

[–]Foolishoe20 points21 points  (16 children) | Copy

It looks good but it's weak.

Just depends on what kind of man YOU want to be.

Women will gravitate to you either way as long as you are pushing yourself.

[–]Truedemocracy614 points15 points  (13 children) | Copy

Weak by lifting standards. Strong by normal standards. Puts you in the top 1-5% of men.

Do agree it’s not something to rest on your laurels over though. But either way low body fat % is the key. Power lifters get the ugliest chicks

[–]pilot3332 points3 points  (12 children) | Copy

I don’t think you’d be in top 1% of men until you hit 1100 or 1200 and pulling 585 but 5% is def possible sooner I think

[–]Truedemocracy63 points4 points  (11 children) | Copy

Can agree with that.

Average man probably can do one rep of 135, if that.

[–]Sora2621 points22 points  (5 children) | Copy

I’ve see full grown men struggle to lift the bar by itself the first time benching.

I think you’re underestimating how much soy a lot of these dudes actually eat

[–]i-am-the-prize6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

agreed. I do not think 90% of off the street guys would be in the 1000# club.

[–]mgtowthrowawayman3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Lol these guys are crazy with these numbers . Me and my friends starting to the gym around the same time the strongest one of us could only bench 75 . I could only push 15 at first and one other guy couldn’t even get the bar up and the rest was around 35-50

[–]pilot3330 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

When I starting gymming at 120 bodyweight, I struggled with the bar. Fucking embarrassing.

[–]mgtowthrowawayman6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy

The average man can not lift 135 . The average man who’s in the gym consistently can probably do that

[–]Truedemocracy61 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Even better :D

I’d say the average man doesn’t do any strength training at all, might have a gym membership they use in a blue moon, and participate in 1-2 5Ks a year

Even the average gym goer isn’t necessarily doing strength training. That said you don’t need to be on a program or anything to hit 135 for one rep haha just going to the gym with no idea what the hell youre doing will get you there pretty quickly

[–]rockyp323 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Weak strength wise maybe but being lower bodyfat is technically healthier most likely which is why woman love it. It’s like having a big ass on a woman. The bigger the better, the more shredded the better. “Naturally” of course

[–]Foolishoe2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Lots of people toss around this concept of 8% body fat. I think 12-15% is pretty attainable for the average guy with a full life. I do think almost anyone 18-22% body fat is going to look unattractive to most of the people he comes across. I think this is natural human nature.

I agree the more volume you put on at a low body fat percentage the more attractive you will look.

[–]terrapinninja2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

This is ridiculous. If you're tall and past puberty you can lift for two years and not hit 1000 total. But that's plenty strong and you will be much bigger than most guys

That being said, there are definitely girls who really really like huge guys and are not hugely concerned about bodyfat so long as it's below 20 which is gonna look great at that level of strength. It's very individualized

[–]Truedemocracy61 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Eh I’m tall and past puberty and did it. That said being tall and lean makes bench the most frustrating thing in the world lol

[–]BurntYams3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Where did you read that said he was on gear? No way, that physique is easily achievable naturally, no way he did hear for it.

[–]Non-Cookie-cutter9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

It would require the average person to atleast have 10 iq to realize that Brad Pitt is attractive because of his face , not body.

Give brad pitt an ugly face and every woman on the planet would think he’s some scrawny weak beta.

[–]mgtowthrowawayman8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Lol needs some mass but fight club brad Pitt is still better 80% of men bro

[–]lifeisweirdasfuck1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Brad Pitt in Fight Club has DYEL status with clothes on...let's be real. Looks more like a fighter than a bodybuilder.

[–]IcyBear70 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

LOL no offense but there's absolutely no way brad pitt was on gear during fight club. That's attainable within 2 years natty, even less if you're genetically gifted

[–]Ireallydownknowhey4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's different for everyone so don't really worry about it. But it could typically take maybe 1.5 years of training to notice great results, as in people definitely can tell you work out. This is assuming your nutrition and training is good.

It's a whole different world when you have aesthetic proportions (wide clavicles and small waist). Look at David Laid vs your average juicy gym bro.

[–]ejaculatingphallus9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

[–]SICFJC13 points14 points  (1 child) | Copy

You didn't answer OPs question at all.

[–]Ireallydownknowhey0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I did though, OP was basically trying to find a timespan in which he will become aesthetic enough to get responses from girls, I just said he shouldn't really worry about it cause genetics and everyone is different.

One guy might get aesthetic as fuck in a year and another guy might struggle to move out of the skinny fat stage.

Just do the basics, that's my thoughts anyway.

[–]Snowboard181 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah that’s a common misconception, some people say they only go to the gym twice a week so they won’t get too buff. I’ve been working out 6 days a week for 4 years and I’ve gotten to a very nice men’s physique type body but it’s hard as hell to really put on the muscle.

[–]watergains135 points136 points  (81 children) | Copy

Low body fat is key. Not just women, but everyone notices when you’re jacked and low body fat. Sharp jaw line, shredded 6pack, and bicep veins. When I’m sub 10%, I can feel the eyes on me especially when shirts off in the summer (boat, sport, etc.)

The confidence boost you get being sub 10% as well is massive versus being 15%

[–]Former-Rabbit[S] 35 points36 points  (77 children) | Copy

Would you say that being low body fat is worth it even if it makes you look a bit smaller?

[–][deleted]  (73 children) | Copy


[–]Former-Rabbit[S] 15 points16 points  (72 children) | Copy

For feeling good, horny and healthy, NO!

Could you elaborate?

The lowest I ever got was around 13%.

[–][deleted]  (71 children) | Copy


[–]PepeApuSmidgeMarvNog52 points53 points  (11 children) | Copy

Most of this post is completely untrue. It’s more than possible to maintain 10% year round natural with none of the side effects you are fear mongering.

[–]Enlightened_Chimp22 points23 points  (8 children) | Copy

Ya I'm about 10%, never felt better in my life, full of energy and my sex drive is so high that it's honestly a problem. I wish it was a bit lower sometimes so I could focus more.

[–]Onein1024th1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy


[–]Enlightened_Chimp8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy

I've lifted hard since I was a kid for like a decade so always been very muscular. 1-2 years ago I cut out almost all alcohol and started running 1-3 miles before every lifting session 4-5 times a week. Cutting out alcohol, doing a shit-load more cardio and eating incredibly healthy makes me feel incredible.

[–]RedVelocitiy0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

What does your diet consist of?

[–]growingstronk4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Once you get to 9% bf for the summer, just go on a nice and light 100-200cal surplus

By the end of the summer you’ll gain a tiny bit of muscle, feel great, and probably be around 11-12% bf MAX after 4 months (May-August)

Keep going until end of January and that will be like 9 mo of slow but clean muscle gain.

You’ll probably be around 15% by then, and you can clear those 6 percentage points in something like 3-4 months. Even easier if you do a mini cut in something like September (cutting before the holidays will just lead to binging)

If you’re young like me, this makes perfect sense, as I am 6ft, active, and pretty muscular. So I cut on 2400kcal, and that would be considered aggressive

Unfortunately, it becomes more and more difficult to gain muscle this way as you reach your genetic potential, and at some point you’re going to have to double down on the surplus for an extended period of time.

But if you’re just in get bitches mode, there ya have it

[–]rockyp320 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Have u noticed a big change in ur sex drive form going from like 15 to 10% or just a minor increas?

[–]Enlightened_Chimp0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Pretty significant increase from lower BF and increased cardio. I also very rarely fap and watch porn and that helps a ton too.

[–]rockyp320 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Cardio part is crazy I notice after like 2 months I can workoit like nonstop

[–]sjswander940 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is true. Those shit side effects don’t happen until your truly shredded under 7% bf. I maintain 8-10 year round feeling just fine.

[–]watergains15 points16 points  (36 children) | Copy

I get sub 8% every year with no issues to sex drive, mood, or low test. Granted I’m 23, if you do it properly it should have minimal effect.

This means no crash diets, maintains strength, and having solid nutrition.

Can provide proof if any cucks don’t believe me.

I also like getting shredded bc most people can’t. I’m from the Midwest, everyone here thinks “shredded” is a slightly visible 4 pack

[–][deleted]  (35 children) | Copy


[–]watergains9 points10 points  (33 children) | Copy

I agree, very subjective. I would say in this here you could argue 8-9%. Again, picture is hard to tell considering you can’t see my back or legs. But nonetheless, this is easily sub 10% no questions.

[–]Former-Rabbit[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

Even if it's above 8%, I think you've got it covered in the looks department, lol

[–][deleted]  (23 children) | Copy


[–]PepeApuSmidgeMarvNog6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

lol you are so wrong, such a hater. This guy is easily sub 10%. I would say 8 is pretty accurate.

And Jeff Caveleire claims to be sub 6% year round.

[–]watergains4 points5 points  (9 children) | Copy

Entitled to your opinion, I’d say that’s a safe 9% but either way - being that lean gets you respect from men and looks from women.

Athlean x also is prob not natural but that’s a different story

[–]EnhancedNatural1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy

dude, do you see that lower chest definition? That requires 10% or under to be even visible, and this is a fact.

Been there done that, both natty and on gear, for 12 years.

[–]Mailman71 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

You’re in good shape. What does your workout look like?

[–]L2diy0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

I second this. Your build is what I’m going for. I’m on a modified PPL rn 6 days a week but I might have started my cut too early. Curious what your lifts are/maxes

[–]Dboy22330 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That looks about 8-9 to me good shit

[–]Truedemocracy60 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Any tips for getting that low and maintaining strength? What's diet and workout routine look like?

[–]PepeApuSmidgeMarvNog1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Styku scans are more precise than Dexa.

[–][deleted]  (15 children) | Copy


[–]Dboy22330 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

So true at 8 percent I was a raging horn dog and slaying

[–][deleted]  (13 children) | Copy


[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy


[–]EnhancedNatural-1 points0 points  (10 children) | Copy

Pro athletes focus on building muscle, getting stronger, and you don’t get to do that unless you eat at a caloric surplus. And if you eat more than mantenance you guaranteed put on some fat. That’s why you don’t see most pros sub 10% or 8% all the time, only at show time. This is elementary stuff.

Give up need to defend your flawed understanding, and embrace the truth.

[–]Dboy22330 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Bruh basketball players are like 8 percent have u seen giannis?

[–][deleted]  (8 children) | Copy


[–]EnhancedNatural0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy

strength, strength requires fat. Anyone who has actually gone legit under 10% knows that the loss of strength is inevitable.

Edit: this post is about physique isn’t it? So some bodybuilding is involved, not competition grade of course, but some muscle is to be put on. What athletes are you talking about? I’ll break it down for you per athlete type.

[–]Gawernator2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Sounds like your personal problem. Been at 8% for years in the military with massive sex drive and no problems. I had to laugh out loud when you wrote starvation mode. Haha

[–]empatheticapathetic0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Everyone’s different. Those with a tendency to retain body fat are the ones to likely experience this when they get to very low bf levels. I have a friend who has naturally super high testosterone and low body fat but he isn’t me.

[–]uchihaitachi12370 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Dont listen to this fool. He is one of those guys who cry steroids like a lil bitch to anyone who is bigger or more shredded than him. I am a doctor and everything he said is complete bullshit. Fuck this guy

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy


[–]uchihaitachi12370 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Healthy range of body fat for men is 8 to 18 percent. Most athletes fall in this range especially soccer players and mma fighters. They are all the healthiest people on the planet. College athletes anyone who goes to the gym and does a bit of cardio and doesn't eat junk food falls in this range.

[–]NumerousImprovements5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don’t think what that guy is saying is true. How often will women see you with a shirt on vs shirt off? A few times in Summer compared to all year round?

As long as your body fat percentage isn’t too high, build muscle before worrying about cutting, at least in terms of SMV.

For me, a skinny guy, I worked out for 6 months before women noticed, and I’m 7 months in now. I’m just getting started so I haven’t “maxed out” my physical looks by any means, but already I’ve had multiple women compliment my body and there’s 2 in particular who can’t help but feel me up on dates.

All I did was have a slight caloric surplus and run PPL with a bit of cardio.

[–]chocolatex2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Honestly just look at soccer players and their bodies. That’s what women “want”. They don’t care how much you lift tbh they just want you to “look good” which equates to low body fat. You should be training for yourself. For the long run. So that when you’re 80 you can still play w your grandkids and not stuck in a wheelchair. Train for strength then size will come. But if you want to just look good a couple months of calisthenics and clean eating will get you there

[–]Tramelo1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Eh, I'd say at least a year of calisthenics

[–]blacwidonsfw1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

What’s your hight and weight? Obv this won’t work if you are skinny jacked

[–]1RedPillFusion1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is probably the best response here imo. Being very ripped dven if you're only somewhat big is what pays the dividends.

[–]rockyp320 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Pretty much u wanna be as shredded as you can be without hurting your hormones

[–]2INNASKILLZ2K1880 points81 points  (6 children) | Copy

Be careful, bro. What's your motivation and goal?

I truly believe that to train well, stick it out and be healthy you have to have a healthy mindset.

Don't do it for women, or 'smv'. That's all external focus, needy and insecurity.

Train for you. Train for the enjoyment. I was talking to a strength trainer today, and he was saying the guys who end up with the best success with women from their body are the guys who are really humble. Who don't lift for women.

The guys who did it because they wanted 'higher smv and sex' all fuck up, because women smell that shit. They smell a guy who says 'look at my body, now fuck me'.

Train for you, develop patience and love of the art. That's your best investment. That will give you returns a lot better than the flakey validation of girls.

Start out with your mindset, and you're already ego lifting. Ego lifting is for insecure faggots.

[–]SoulRedemption2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is spot on and I agree with you

[–]therealbigoso0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

How do you start out with your mindset? Serious question not bashing your post.

For me at least, being on this sub started with an external focus: I wasn’t fucking any women, it was that way for many many years, how do I change it, etc.

A lot of dudes here tell others to do it for themselves and not for the external rewards. But that either means I’m mentally fucked and don’t know what a self is, or I’m having a hard time understanding what you mean.

[–]2INNASKILLZ2K189 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy

Nah, dude. That's a fair question.

It actually alludes to a bigger issue. Codependency, and approval/acceptance seeking.

See, so many people are codependent and seek approval and acceptance. A basic motivation behind a lot of what they do, is they believe what they do will garner them the acceptance and approval of others.

I'm actually going to write a post in the next day or two about attachment theory and codependency.

The basic premise is that we all have an innate desire for certain things from others. Be it love, sex, affection, approval. Many are codependent on others for how they feel about themselves. They only feel good about themselves when others feel good about them.

Anyway, at some point we don't feel good enough to get those needs met. So we develop strategies that we think will get us the approval and validation we seek.

A basic limiting belief may go like 'I want acceptance and approval. I am not good enough as I am to get acceptance and approval, so I will be what I think others want me to be, in order to please them and get their approval'.

So lifting becomes 'I am only good enough if I life and get jacked. If I lift and get jacked, I will be what women want, and get their acceptance and approval'.

That's not healthy. You're living life for others. Everything is for acceptance and vkdation. What happens when you don't get it? You fall apart and back into 'what else can I do to make you like me'?

Self improvement is huge. Lifting, striving and improving is part of healthy psychology.

At the same time, we balance it with 'I am good enough as I am, I don't have to change myself for others'.

What helped me was making a conscious effort to discover 'what do I like doing for me'? What makes me happy, without worrying what others think of me?

As much as we want self esteem and self worth, we cannot rely solely on getting it from others. We do shit for ourselves.

Over time, I started lifting for me. I changed my mindset. 'I like lifting because I feel strong. I get time away from the world where it is just me and the bars. I am learning a craft and skill and understanding of the body. I enjoy mastering form and having a hoby'.

Fuck...this emotionally fulfills me. Suddenly I am taking ownership of my emotional well being. I develop self esteem, discipline etc.

We can do that with other stuff. What things can you do on a daily basis that YOU enjoy?

The ironic thing is, that's what women find attractive. The guy who is humble, enjoys what he does, makes himself happy and it's not all for others. But if you get it right, their approval doesn't greatly mean much. We don't have as much ego, because we're not 'look at me and tell me how hot I am'. Those are the insecure dudes who many turn to roids. They are not in it for the craft, they want to fill their insecurity. Nearly all round and juiced dudes are fucked up underneath.

It's a process. Many have lived for approval for so long, we don't know what we do just for us.

It takes conscious effort. Slowly introducing a few things and thinking 'awesome, this is my own thing'.

You build emotional independence and self reliance. You know what YOU do for YOURSELF that keeps you feeling ok.

[–]RedVelocitiy0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

What books do you recommend?

[–]2INNASKILLZ2K181 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

No More Mr Nice Guy

Subtle Art of Not Giving A Fuck

When I Say No I Feel Guilty

The Stoics

Codependent No More

[–]z2a1-91 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

best answer here respect

[–]The1ndex109 points110 points  (15 children) | Copy

Don’t ever listen to what a woman says. Watch what they do.

When a woman says she wants a normal guy. She’s saying she wants a beta bux to enslave.

Her tingles, and irrigation system between her legs will respond to the jacked guy.

To answer your question. Most of the smv increase happens early on when you have developed shoulders, arms, and chest. After that, diminishing returns kicks in, and the next big jump in smv is when you actually get big.

[–]realdealdawg30 points31 points  (11 children) | Copy

Traps are everything

[–]empatheticapathetic25 points26 points  (10 children) | Copy

Liking traps is totally not gay

[–]realdealdawg17 points18 points  (0 children) | Copy

But if it was I'd be a gay mother fucker

[–][deleted]  (8 children) | Copy


[–]empatheticapathetic7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy

Bruh you must have some alert on asktrp for the word ‘gay’.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy


[–]empatheticapathetic5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Bro you are so woke i can't take it. Defile me now!!!

[–]malheneb5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

LMAO, 4chan taught you gud, boi

[–]1DubbleFUPAwitCheez2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

This exemplifies some of the guys mentality around here

[–]realdealdawg0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That was quite the read

[–]spicy_fries-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy


[–]Original_Dankster4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Low BF improves facial angularity too. You can be swole but with a puffy creatine face, you'll look like a big baby.

[–]Truedemocracy6-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yep. Same with gym gains, you plateau after 1 year or so and then work really hard for each new PR.

[–]redpillbanana17 points18 points  (0 children) | Copy

Okay let's answer your actual question:

It took me 6-9 months before women started subtly complementing me on my looks, e.g. they would grab my bicep when I looked at my phone, or secretly take photos of my back or ass, or talk about how they missed my shoulders, etc.

[–]1tysonfury15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy

Womens attention should not be your goal in lifting. Lift for yourselves. Being buff as in the second picture is hardly possible and takes a lot of years so don't worry.

[–]LLL3peat19 points20 points  (1 child) | Copy

Being skinny is always preferred to than being fat. It’s takes time. Build a foundation, get down to around 11-13% body fat, and life is on easy mode until you meet someone who has the same body fat as you, but 10 more pounds of muscle.

[–]patchwhole2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I like this comment 😂

[–]G0rv7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

How good of a shape...? kind of asking How long a rope is. A bit vague, so is the answer.

I'd say it's not so much of a muscle thing, since 98 % of the time you're fully clothed in interaction with others, so that won't be noticeable anyways.

Low body fat has already been mentioned, I agree. It especially enchance facial features. But maybe I'd rank posture first.

One milestone or aha moment I realized my smv obviously increased was when I hade noticeable broader shoulders and slimmer waist, making an "air gap" between my arms and core. May seem trivial for guys hitting the gym regularly but in the normal office space you're the 1 % with this.

No effort and extra credits if you combine this with proper grooming and low-key stylish clothing (you don't want to pea cock too much, your posture and gym results do more than enough).

Investment: I aim at going to the gym three days a week, in reality it's more like two. Been doing it for a few years.

tl;dr: Posture > Body fat > Muscles

[–]ACE-JHN0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

what's your routine like for 3 days a week? and do you count macros?

[–]DTron23327 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

You have to invest a lot, to get anything out of it. If you plan to lift, and want an amazing body that women want you to fuck them with, you'll have to really work your ass off.

I'd say people start to notice the first year or so of your progress, you start looking better than most people if you stay consistent.

Once you hit the 3 year mark of being consistent, eating right, and lifting like crazy, that's when men start to label you as a threat, and women label you as sexual object they want deep in their sugar walls.

You want to be noticed and seen. Money can but many things in this world, but it cannot buy an amazing body. Women love muscles, it shows genetic dominance and commitment towards yourself.

[–]wellsking2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is the right answer. Im about to hit the 3 year mark and this marries up exactly with my experience, and boy is it worth it!

[–]Gandalfthegrey232324 points25 points  (2 children) | Copy

If you do a 5 day split it will take roughly 3 months to notice a difference. This is also assuming you are eating enough protein and aren’t obese. Muscle gains follow a logistic distribution. You will see what body builders call “noobie gains” pretty quick.

I really wouldn’t focus on how quickly women will get attracted. Bodybuilding is a lifestyle it’s not get rich quick scheme. Just stick with it and women will notice. Especially when you get really in shape.

If I’m being honest though, having women be the main reason you want to get big is stupid. That’s just validation seeking behavior. I originally started working out because I felt like shit all the time. Working out made me feel great and healthy. It has also exponentially boosted my confidence. The discipline of working out daily will also spread to other parts of your life.

[–]2INNASKILLZ2K187 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

This guy gets it. It's either an art form, or a strengthening of insecurity.

Women do shit for validation. Men don't.

[–]PhaedrusHunt5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

The funny thing about the whole thing is that it comes down to having the physical appearance of being able to fight and fuck. That's what makes women feel attracted to men physically.

My own subjective experience is that I actually look and feel better at a higher body fat percentage than when I had a lower body fat percentage.

About six or eight years ago my weight was 170 and I don't know what my body fat percentage was but it was extremely low. The amount of fat on the front of my stomach was pretty much what it would be on my forearm right now. Basically just skin. I wasn't going to the gym but I was doing a lot of construction and a shit ton of pull-ups and knee raises for the abs. I was doing close to 100 pull-ups a day, instead of personal record of 23 strict, dead hang, all the way up all the way down pull ups.

I'm 6'4" so 170 was a really low weight for me.

Fast forward to four years ago. I was in grad school and suddenly very sedentary. My weight got up to almost 230. I felt like a pig. This was toward the end of my marriage.

As soon as I left the marriage I started training BJJ seriously again and smashing pussy. The fat just melted off like it was nothing.

I've never gotten down to the super low level of body fat again but right now I feel like I'm at a happy medium. Right now my body fat is about 18-20%, weight goes between 195 and 205, usually stays right at 200.

For whatever reason I feel better with a little bit on me and that's what matters to me. Like if current me were to get in a fight with leaner more ripped me, current me would win (except that old me had better knees lol)

Now as far as interest from women. I kind of feel like where I'm at now is pretty good although I could lose a little bit more. I think about 15% is the level where I got the most IOIs. Weird, right?

This is an interesting debate.

I think there may be some evolutionary thing for it-- When someone is completely shredded they don't have the stores in their body to go for a little while. Fat is there as stored energy for times of famine. I think women instinctively recognize this which is why a lot of them will see these guys are completely shredded and say ooh gross. At the same time being really fat is also unhealthy and everyone's obviously repulsed by that.

When I look at a woman, I want one that's right in the middle. I like them lean and athletic, But honestly I'd rather fuck a girl that was a little too fat than one that was super skinny.

If I can see a woman's abs it's a turn off lol

[–]Imperator_Red2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

But honestly I'd rather fuck a girl that was a little too fat than one that was super skinny.

There’s a sliding scale of fatness... athletic -> average -> chubby -> fat -> land whale, and each is progressively less attractive.

For skinny it’s 0/1. Once she crosses the “too skinny” line she immediately goes from hot to gross. Probably because our brains know they aren’t even worth fucking if they don’t enough fat stores to carry a baby to term.

[–]fromdario6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

This is a tough one because it can depend on context, age and a number of things.

If you’re at the beach and you’re low body fat, some girls will think you’re better looking than the guy with an extra 20lbs of muscle and extra 10lbs of fat... He may be stronger and in better shape (physically) but you “look better.”

I’m 6’3” and have HAD a power lifter body at 250lbs with a decent amount of fat on my frame. I’d get looks like “whoa this guy is a beast” and I felt great all the time (calorie surplus), so lots of confidence and that sort of Lions roar feeling. But swollen face and sort of lumbering around. When I was this big it’s mostly more older, fatter or sluttier types who are not intimidated enough to approach.

I’ve also been as low as 163 ( really low body fat And way less muscle) and at the beach or out different types of women would find me attractive. Mostly younger ones would approach as I was less intimidating but they would more often be the artist, shy, emotional or looking to get married types.

I found the best results for my own health and SMV was to maximize and then maintain my FFMI or Fat Free Mass Index. It’s the best metric to measure (IMO) because it’s the maximum amount of lean muscle you can realistically put on naturally, given your frame. I.e highest amount of muscle with lowest amount of fat.

In a sweater or normal clothes you can tell I’m in shape, have all the benefits of face gains (vs the swole power lifter face) as there is enough muscle there to fill out my clothes. On the beach I look healthy, not super shredded or competition ready but visible abs and veins but also very obvious muscle mass. The biggest thing is that I feel great, am healthy and have functional strength and fitness. All of which comes across in body language and attitude. To me this is how I can look my best and cast the widest net to the largest pool of women. Sure some may want a giant and others a waif but maximizing your FFMI is the simpler solution to this - at least for me.

But If you just want people to look then get as big as possible, if you want to open as many doors as possible then FFMI.

Also your mileage will vary, don’t expect to hit any fitness metric and suddenly every woman on the street is into you. It’s not magic, just increasing the odds of success.

EDIT: included additional info per "user2018's" comment

[–]user201806201 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

For people that don't know (like me) Ffmi stands for Fat free mass index.

[–]iwviw6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

When your jacked and ripped and god like body you 100% get more ass. Girls will ask you to dance, stare at you, walk passed you on purpose, touch you without consent, some might straight up eventually say they wanna bang, but for the most part you still have to make moves and approach. You can be jacked and still have a beta mentality. I know because I’ve been there and I’m handsome too on top of the body I had.

[–]muricanwerewolf16 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Well first of all don’t listen to what fucking women say, pay attention to what they do. Women also say they like a “dad bod”, and we all know that’s bullshit. Women say this crap because they want to be liked, and “be a fucking mass monster or gtfo” isn’t exactly giving people warm fuzzies. Also, for your two examples there’s A LOT of muscle in between the skinny guy and the “been doing tren 10 years” guy.

Anyway, 6 months to a year I started getting comments about how good I looked, at 5’10 going from 150 lb at like 20% bf to 160/165 lb at about the same. At 180 now after 3 to 4 years, some fat around the middle but I still look better than I ever have, broad shoulders and big arms. Unless I take my shirt off or have a tight shirt and have just put down a meal (the bulking bloat is real, don’t let it get in your head) I doubt it’s noticeable. Ha, I say “just put down a meal” as if there’s a time I’m awake that I haven’t just put down a meal.

Where you’re coming from plays a big role in if “shredded” or “huge” is a better goal for you. If you’re a big beefy boi, working out to promote and keep muscle while cutting to try to see your abs sounds like a great move. If you’re a twig like I was, trying to see abs and build muscle is doable, for sure, but once you reach that goal you’re still going to be small. Like sure, all of your tiny little muscles are gonna be on display, but everything else being equal the guy who took the higher BF cost of putting on an extra 15 lb of muscle is going to look better than you.

Anyway, to manage some expectations; most people IME are such unfit pieces of shit and so clueless that have no idea how far away they are from “looking good”, let alone getting mistaken for a bodybuilder. Massive generalization, but it takes the better part of a decade to actually look like an athlete, unless of course you’re genetically gifted AND doing everything right. You could get into drugs, but fun fact about those, most people doing them you’d never guess were on. They either have such (I don’t want to say bad, just common) genetics that they need the stuff to look like what you think a basic gym bro looks like, or they’re so bad with the basics and also so dumb that they’re on drugs to compensate.

Also, I’d argue most people 1 year into actually lifting and eating right, while they’ve changed drastically compared to the slug they were before, will only notice subtle changes from women. Don’t think you’re gonna get bodybuilder level attention. Shit, there are bodybuilders who don’t get attention. Check out Good Looking Loser’s account of being a gymcel. What it does for you is make women more receptive. They’re not going to chase you, but they will actually think about sleeping with you. You’re still gonna have to do the legwork. You’re still going to have to build your SMV in all the other ways.

[–]guccibans4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

For me, I would say that my SMV dramatically increases during my cutting phase. My winter bulk boosts my muscle mass, but it also makes my face fat as fuck. When I get my abs and jawline back is when I feel the most confident in myself, despite losing some strength and mass in the process.

[–]AmIDyslexicStoner4190 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Do you have a bulking and cutting cycle every year? and if so whats the difference in pounds at your heaviest and lowest weight. I started dieting every spring starting 3 years ago. Got absolutely shredded and jacked and then lost it all and became fat during the winter. Same exact cycle for the next 3 years. Theres about a 25 pound difference every winter and summer for me and im starting to think its really unhealthy that I do this because my dieting phase is super long (3-4 months) and I get down to around 10 percent and feel like shit in the last 2 weeks of it.

[–]guccibans0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

10 pound difference. I prefer being lean and not prolonging my bulks. While the gains are sacrificed, it's mainly just for personal reasons as I prefer the lean look. 25 pounds sounds like a lot, but if you're making gains and can consistently lose it, keep it up man. That's a lot of weight to drop on a cut.

[–]WolfofAllStreetz2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

  1. Make sure your T levels aren’t fucked first of all.
  2. Eat and get big but don’t be more than 15% BF ish and you will get noticed.
  3. Girls don’t like skinny fags.
  4. Form>Weight

This is from a 185lb 5,10 MRP guy.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy


[–]z2a1-90 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy


[–]pachmelstop3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

If you reach 10% of body fat you automatically jump to 6/10. Studies show that the flat stomach, sharp face shapes and wide shoulders are naturally arousing. Dont necessarily have to have a six packs and biceps like Schwartznegger - just make sure your belly is not sticking out, your chest is pumped and you dont abandon your shoulders. But dont forget the most important thing - you workout for yourself, not for someone else.

[–]RPInjectionToTheVein3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Bro I think everyone just has different genetics so they'll have varying experiences just keep lifting and ask questions later

[–]distantoceangrey1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I stay decently lean all year long, but leaner in the summer. I am as lean as the guy in the first pic with a more muscle, bigger shoulders traps and chest. 5 days a week at the gym, 6 days a week perfect eating.

You can see my leanness through a tighter shirt, there is clear separation of muscle especially in my back in almost any shirt and a tight t shirt will show off a road map of Veins in my forearms and biceps. So even at a bar you can see how i look even without taking my shirt off.

Minus a year or two after a serious injury, i have always looked like this, but the jump between my pudgy post injury body (which still looked buff, i looked more muscly than i do now in clothes) and my body now in terms of attention, is staggering and there is a clear difference in the amount of women hitting on me.

[–]Sin-Silver1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

My frame significantly changed the moment I began to notice the resting place of my arms change due to the increase of my biceps. I achieved that in about a month of hard work out, focusing on the big lifts.

[–]wowkwo1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

I don't think you should count or expect fitness to raise your SMV too much.

It's a huge positive, but personality and lifestyle are the key.

[–]i-am-the-prize0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

you've obviously not been the same man in 2 different bodies. I've lost over 100# of fat and put on 30# of muscle in under 2 years and I did it for me. period.

but the change in treatment from strange/new women and ones i've known for decade+ is drastic.

to say " I don't think you should count or expect fitness to raise your SMV too much" means you've not gone from "smart/great-personality, but fat and soft" to "smart/even more outgoing/and ripped and strong" the change in response is unreal.

[–]wowkwo1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

you've obviously not been the same man in 2 different bodies. I've lost over 100# of fat and put on 30# of muscle in under 2 years and I did it for me. period.

Oh for sure that will make a HUGE difference, but eventually, you realize your body is just another way to attract.

It never seals the deal.

[–]i-am-the-prize2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

It never seals the deal.

yup, I feel that looks simply get you a seat at the table = Models by Manson states (paraphrased): "if she sees you approaching, it's assured she's made up her mind whether she's gonna hear you out before you even open your mouth, based on how you look"

so looks allow you to use your Game. They are "remote Game" in that your 'look' works from across the room, it's a wide net that is visually perceived. not by voice/touch/sound/smell.

Nerd speak: like gravity, it works over longer distances than other attractions, but like gravity vs. the other forces, it's not the strongest, that's inner game (Frame)

[–]wowkwo1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

ks over longer distances than other attractions, but like gravity vs. the other forces, it's not the strongest, that's inner ga

100%, Models is the best seduction book i've ever read.

[–]Infernir1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

If you're 5'10 to 6'2 get to around 190 lbs and stop there. Then just keep building muscle, getting that toned normal body, and staying super fit/healthy/flexible in general. There's a ton of more factors to being fit and healthier than just having strength or big muscles... and eventually you stop seeing a lot of results in this area and you should only lift for health, confidence, countless other factors YOU DON'T SEE. But trust me they're in play and existence.

But yeah eventually just focus on developing a fashion sense, good hygiene, etc etc other ways to maximize appearance. After you're done with that maximizing your socializing skills will provide infinite better results and understanding how to fully apply TRP irl. When you get all of that done you really should be able to get 100 - 200 cute lays a year NO Matter your race, income, genetics, etc etc. A shit ton of stuff can make it easier like being wealthier or having high status but its not necessary... you're already a man, and you already have yourself.

There's so many idiots out there. In real life and on TRP forums. Who don't realize that no matter what you do if you don't have good enough social skills its all meaningless. And also... who don't realize that they don't need some certain status or strength or money or stuff or height or anything to get women. It's all about confidence, the vibe you give off of yourself. If you think even a tiny bit that you aren't enough? It will come off of you naturally no matter what you say how you say it or what you do or not. 99.9% of guys struggle hard with this, RP and non TRP guys. This is why we say to focus on your mission since that will give you a strong grip onto something, undeniable tangible power. Your mission.

If you're shorter, 5'9 and under you have to care about muscles more and get really big in your arms if you want to match average and 6 ft + guys.

Also, there's a big difference between having weight of fat... and having weight in muscle. A sexy muscular 190 lb guy is very different from a 190 lb guy made out of fat &... yeah.

When you can get fat women approaching you or any chicks coming up to feel your muscles you're more than ready enough to win hb 8s, 9s, and 10s. The only thing preventing you at this point? Is you :)

Furthermore, the whole lifting and fitness side of TRP is to only achieve one goal: Seem like a guy that gets laid, gets girls. It will boost your SMV, your state of mind making it easier to actually get laid, get girls. Do you see now? Preselection is god like. It's just a means to an end.

[–]Haytch12341 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Normal for women = I want muscular but not Mr Olympia muscular.

They dont realise even to get to that normal size takes hard work and is hard.

[–]theUnBannableHulk4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Until you’re sub-10% body fat, you won’t notice much difference unless you have a cute face.

[–]Dboy22331 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Can confirm for way more iois at 8 percent than I do at 12

[–]I_LOVE_CHIPS1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

[–]pilot3334 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

women don’t know what they won’t - don’t listen to them.

[–]Former-Rabbit[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Let's not go into extremes with that. They all clearly are aroused in the video.

Sometimes women will be honest with what they want. It doesn't happen often, but it's not completely unheard of.

[–]pilot3330 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

it’s not extreme. it’s AWALT and it’s part of red pill. if you’re not a believer, there are other forms of the pill you can take.

[–]Former-Rabbit[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

AWALT doesn't mean that women lie literally 24/7.

Sometimes they slip up and the truth can emerge.

[–][deleted]  (8 children) | Copy


[–]GandMeChattri0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

I've been training hard for 1.5 years and am gonna hop on my first SARMs cycle now. I am expecting what happened to you!

[–]pilot3332 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

why sarms? there’s very limited long term research on much of those. i can tell you where you’ll likely be in 50 years if you do a test cycle.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy


[–]Throwaway79079010 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Inject subcutaneously into your belly fat. This isn’t a well known way to use steroids but it works the same and the blood concentration and absorption is the same as well; albeit more spread out.

I’ve been using this method for over 2 yesss with great success. No PIP either. I even did Tren sub q

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy


[–]Throwaway79079010 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Lol that’s a good problem to have I’d say. You can def pinch your glutes or some other area and inject just a tiny amount at a narrow angle. It’s what all the lean guys I know do.

Though PIP is not a concern for you, I would definitely worry about long term scar tissue. Remember that every time you jab, you’re creating a tiny hole where that muscle is. This is a problem even if you rotate your sites and I know some veterans who can’t even inject in certain spots anymore and have VISIBLE deformities in muscle from the scar tissue.

Just something to keep in mind. Def consider sub q. No downsides.

[–]PaulBreddit0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Holy shit! *Searches up Trenbolone on Google *

[–]pilot3330 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

bro it’s trenbologna sandwich that you want

[–]PhaedrusHunt1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Fedor Emelianenko is coming into this thread to kick all your asses and make you watch while he fucks your girl. She'll be playing with his tiddies and chewing on his love handles while you sit there and count calories.

[–]Former-Rabbit[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

She'll be playing with his tiddies and chewing on his love handles while you sit there and count calories.

And all you have to do is become the greatest heavyweight fighter of all time. Definitely a viable alternative to getting jacked.

[–]PhaedrusHunt-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

But Werdum whooped him with that dad bod, he arguably is even more dad than Fedor.

I guess it's confidence. People sense that stuff.

On the mats, gym bros are just stronger than average white belts that are only marginally more difficult to manhandle.

I don't know, it's weird. If a gym guy feels super confident at 10% bf, women sense it.

If I feel even more confident, they sense that too. I physically feel better now than at lower bfp, and people pick up on that.

[–]champagnepadre0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

A few weeks of doing arms, chest, shoulders and back every other day. Once you get some definition in your arms and chest I feel like it tends to go up


[–]optimase_prime0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

For it wasn’t until shirtless pics started getting posted regularly on ig

[–]watergains0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I’m 5’8” 160

[–]Truedemocracy60 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

You’ll notice initial investment within the noob gains phase. When your posture gets better, that skinny fat belly fat goes away, and you get some definition.

From there I mainly got noticed when I was low body fat and vascular over mass. I was called “jacked” at 6’3 and 185 pounds with maybe a 200 bench. Far from it, but low body fat that after a pump I had definition. Now I’m at 210 and working my way back down again.

You don’t need to be huge to get attention from women. Within 1-2 years of lifting you’ll be stronger than basically 95% of men and can fill out a shirt. That’s all it takes. Any goals after that should be for you to build strength, because the returns of getting chicks depreciates after a while

[–]PaulBreddit0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

We're u natural?

[–]Truedemocracy60 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Absolutely, my numbers would suck if I wasn’t natty haha

[–]VigilantSmartbomb0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I think maybe 2 weeks of going twice a week working out for half an hour? Next time I went to the bar I wore a tight shirt and everyone asked me if I had been working out

obviously that translates to SMV increase, and if it was to the point they noticed and said something- probably could have gone the week before and people still would have noticed but maybe not said anything

point being, go lift bro lol

Edit: and why're you talking about maxing out before even beginning? That's a sure fire way to NOT start lifting

Edit: Women are still turned on to not worked out bodies -- dad bod hello.

edit: read more on the sidebar before you get banned

[–]harry_powell0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thinking in timeframes isn’t smart. As it’ll probably take much more than you think, specially if you’re a newbie. I started in order to bulk up and look good, then I realized that the effort and time it’s not worth it. But I continued because of how well I felt after going to the gym each day: more energy, goodbye to depression and back pains... That’s why I do it. Looking good is just a nice bonus.

But to answer your question, I’d say the following:

  • 3/4 months for your friends and colleagues to notice your gains and compliment you.
  • 6/8 months for strangers to see you as a “fit guy who works out”.
  • 12/14 months (where I am now) to actually look like I’m packing on real muscle.

And in no way I look as big or shredded as Thor or whatever. That takes you years.

[–]Foolishoe0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

'Pump' does a lot for your outward appearance. Just consistently working out can be a huge boost. Once you hit 12% body fat there's a definite change in the way people treat you.

You are basically a super hero at that point unless you skipped certain muscle groups.

[–]PrettyBarbiePerson0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yo literal body frame really determines how big you gonna/can get

As long as natty no girl will think you’re gross looking

BF sub 13% at a healthy weight ??

Game fucking over

[–]i-am-the-prize0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy what level/when did SMV increase/get noticed?

When I got below 15% BF and gained 20# of muscle. which one? I can't isloate, they happened at the same time. (i'm now 13% BF and nearly 30# muscle gained)

But it's an intoxicating combo.

How long will that take? depends on your starting point (BF) and how serious you are in the gym and genetics (muscle)

Add in newly bought well fitting (fitted) clothing which accentuates your v-taper in your shoulders to waist, chest, arms, ass and hem, high quality shoes and it's like catnip.

[–]SirAttackHelicopter0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It depends on the person. It honestly didn't really make a huge difference until i started wearing fancier clothes. I still wear the standard tshirt and cargo pants/shorts most of the time, but it would appear women judge men just as highly on clothing as they do other women.

[–]Cientocincuenta0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I lost ~30kg in a year, gained some muscle. I'd say when I got a bmi of 25, girls started to notice. The increased muscles were less important than the fat loss. Dunno the other way around, from skinny to buffed.

[–]amwfhunter0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Once I hit about 10%

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Fuck what women say. Fuck what they think about your body. How do YOU feel about your body? Do you feel like a king? Do you walk with confidence knowing people won't fuck with you? Do you feel healthy and fit? That's what women actually care about, your confidence and your bout it bout it-ness.

[–]EdvardMunch0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Everyone is different but for me it didnt take long and doesnt take long if coming out of shape. If youre eating right and you feel strong, tight, pumped, somehow women start looking at you more even though the difference may not seem vast.

I think its much more about radiating good health more than being big or low bf though those can help sometimes. But we all know too well plenty of the 80s meathead types that remain unattractive because of lack of nuance, style, personality, overall vibe.

[–]RPthrowaway1230 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm more of an endurance athlete, but girls have always commented on the "V" as it's called. That's mostly a function of low body fat I think. I do some chest, back and biceps to round everything out since most of my workouts are running or swimming but I still want to look good in those muscle groups.

So basically in my experience, when my body fat % is in V territory is when women start to notice.

[–]jh18710 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It’s a gradual change. Looks pull them in, game and personality keep them.

Physically, you should lift 30-60 minutes a day 3-6 days a week. 10-15% bodyfat is optimal. Can’t even really tell until the shirt comes off.

[–]MasculineRP0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm lucky that I started lifting weights when I was 16 years old. Granted it took a while to completely understand what I was doing (also with the help of hiring professional coaches). But I'm 26 now, and I fully understand what to do with myself in regards to lifting and dieting. I'm not the most jacked dude in the room, or the most lean for that matter. But I fill out my shirts, and my legs fill out my jeans. My body is definitely above average, and that's all that really matters. My face is lean enough to see my jawline but it isn't crazily chiseled. I can see the outline of my abs and am somewhat vascular but nothing too crazy. That low bodyfat is extremely hard to manage. It can definitely be done, but it's not for me.

So it took me 10 years essentially to get where I'm at. There were some bumps in the road but I eventually got here and I'm still growing and improving with every workout. I also took up kickboxing 4 years ago, and BJJ 2 years ago which has helped keep me fit and lean.

[–]flatox0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I feel like i should have reached that point years ago, but i think i have something in my mind that is blocking me from viewing myself as attractive because people often ask me why im not slaying and my grandma thinks it's because i must be gay then lol.

Anyways, depending on your body when you start, you could have a nice foundation adter 8 months and clearly visible around 1 year and a couple of months.

[–]Mr_Brightside010 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Honestly not even too long, the confidence working out gives you is the real game changer personally. Also stopping masturbation gave me an even bigger increase in confidence, confidence that you can hear, smell, and see. You begin radiating that energy and women just become curious as to what makes this man be so confident and content. When you start realizing the effect you begin having on women then it becomes so much more easier to approach girls left and right. Simply because you know that getting rejected isnt going to diminish your chances of attracting other women, you become less thirsty the more you practice that abundance mentality.

[–]Dboy22330 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Agreed I Bulked to hard gotta cut it back down

[–]idontevenlift370 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Aesthetics are more attractive to women, aka a balance between being big and being shredded. That being said, don’t expect getting fit to solve all your problems, you still need proper game to back it up. Looking good will for sure get you some attention, but you gotta be able to back it up by being alpha.

[–]SerialATA_Killer0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If you really get into it - good workouts at least 4 days a week - you'll very quickly see the noobie gains stack on. It's a real thing. I would say maybe 2-3 months where others would start recognizing that something is changing (leaning up, losing facial fat), and maybe 4-6 months where you can really start to see some real beef growing. At that point, if everything is perfect and you're putting on 1.5 lbs of muscle per month, thats at least 8 lbs by month 4. Getting big like the gym rats takes years though, so don't compare yourself to them immediately.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

6 feet and about 180 pounds no idea what my body fat was but it was fairly low.. It peaked at about 210 with probably the same body fat.

[–]sjswander940 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The best advice I can give to anyone trying to get in shape is this. It’s a marathon not a sprint. Stay in it for the long hall. If it takes you 6 months a year 2 years who gives a shit keep your eye on the prize and before you know it your a beast turning heads. Your future self will be grateful you had the balls and determination to stick it out. So don’t worry about how long it’ll take worry about hitting your calories and the gym TODAY.

To directly answer your question, I’d say 6 months - a year as a natural (depending on your genetics and starting point)your smv will increase dramatically.

[–]youcantdenythat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I started at about 25% body fat and was getting no attention from women. After about 3 months of working out I was starting to get the double-take, i.e. women were starting to check me out. I only lost maybe 15 pounds. Down to maybe 20%.

The point of working out makes you look better aesthetically, but women are also very attracted to confidence. Feeling better, getting healthier, and looking better have a huge affect on your confidence so SMV goes up.

They can see it in the way you hold yourself, the way you walk and talk.

So yeah, it doesn't take that much to make a difference. But like others have said, that first guy in your pic is ~10% body fat which could take a few years depending on where you are starting from.

[–]beefstockcube0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I was never lean. Just not my game.

But as soon as I hit that 440 deadlift things changed, I'm 5'8. So not tall and I'm never more than about 185 in weight - plenty of fat. But I fill out a tshirt, shorts ride up if I tense me leg etc.

I was visibly much "stronger" than pretty much everyone I would meet in normal life (with the exception of the gym) if that makes sense. No one was turned on by my body, as in a Calvin model. But it doesn't matter, that combined with frame is all it takes.

Jumped into cycling and lost probably 15lbs. I'll be back at the gym ready to go again in Feb.

[–]Zanford0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Veinous forearms are a quick ticket. One of my first proto-RP experiences was when I got firm, veiny forearms from (no obvious 'bating jokes please) working out in early high school and started getting verbal compliments from girls and their excuses to squeeze them.

Get your biceps, shoulders and traps to where they look good in a well-fitting shirt.

Having defined chiseled abs is not that important unless the beach or other shirtless situations are part of your daygame and dates. Otherwise, by the time your shirt is coming off you're probably past the ASD anyway. And don't sweat it if you have awkwardly asymmetric looking abs or high lat inserts (makes them look smaller).

The most important part of low BF% is probably its effect on your jawline and face actually.

[–]TripleDragons0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

3 months hard work is almost guaranteed noticeable benefits.

A lot excudes from your confidence (ego) too.

[–]DatRiggz0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

10 to 12 bf % and jacked is all I see here lmao. I guess by jacked everyone means shredded cause most natty folks aren't 10 to 12 bf and looking JACKED.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You have to look like you lift.

[–]Proto_Sigma0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Shoot for the Adonis ratio for optimal results.

Physique wise we've got male beauty down to a science. Your waist should ideally be .45 your height and the length around your shoulders should be 1.618. Low body fat and high muscle mass are both attractive- what you prioritize working on should vary based on your condition but the theoretical perfect is having both.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I’m 5 foot 7.5. Went from 120 pounds to 170 over three years. Changed everything about me, even my face definition. I went from snagging a fatty or dating a meh girl once in a blue moon to having more options than I could keep up with. I’d say it took a full 2 years of consistent muscle building to start noticing how differently I was being treated. Once you get past “average in shape/runner guy” look and your muscles start popping more, it’s game on.

[–]IcyBear70 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

late to this but I legit thought I had to get stacked in order to pull on tinder. I dont mean "on gear" stacked, but pretty muscular for a natty.

Then one day just for fun I posted up some cat fishing photos of some LEAN guys with arms that just barely passed the cut off for "works out". Basically a physique most people could attain in 6-8 months. In the gym world, he's DYEL but in tinder world, boy that pic got a lotta matches

lesson learned - u honestly dont need to be as stacked as u think

[–]SoloQueueXL0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

My dude a great bod doesn’t fix a crap personality. This is one of those mental masturbation questions.

[–]muricanwerewolf12 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Funniest comment I’ve seen today.

[–]i-am-the-prize2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

it's the most strawman of strawmen responses of the day. full-retard.

[–]bert_cj0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Started working out when I was 16. It was almost immediate. Lot of girls gave me way more attention than ever. Constantly touching my arms and stomach. I was always the skinny kid. Started working out religiously and gained a lot of lean muscle. Worked at a fast food restaurant where all I ate was grilled chicken sandwiches, and egg sandwiches with double egg. 60g protein shake everyday. Working there taught me that you can eat kind of healthy eating fast food, lots of lean protein sources.

But yeah. Gained a ton of muscle, worked out religiously. My body completely transformed within a year. Everyone treated me way different than I had ever been treated before.

Being completely honest, I didn’t really like the attention. I’m 6’0, at the time I was 210 and probably 8-10 percent body fat.

Now I’m around 200 and still around 10 percent body fat. When I see people I haven’t seen in a while they say “omg what happened to your gains?” I prefer the slim muscular build. Especially since I play a lot of basketball, I feel much more agile. Basketball has taken a big toll on my knees. I think in a couple years I’ll go back to just weight lifting and ditch b-ball. Not entirely but just not try to compete as much. Currently I’m in a multitude of leagues and I want to compete, it’s so fun to me. It’s more rewarding at the moment than weight lifting and being buff. Especially since I can always go back to that. I still get attention from girls now with being touchy with my body but not nearly as much as before. I was also douchy with my muscles before, tight t shirts showing off as much of my arms and chest as possible.

[–]watergains-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes.. compromise some size for leanness. When you’re actually sub 10%, you will look bigger than you would at 15%. Even if you’re weaker on your lifts and “feel” smaller, let me assure you the leanness illusion works.

Deeper cuts on your insertions make you appear bigger. I.e. your delts will have separation from your bis and tris

[–]Ohboohoolittlegirl-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Honestly, I didn't notice a difference. But I looked good before as well as a skinny dude. 6'4, blue eyes and blond hair with strong features do that for you

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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