I try to find the elements of truth in any point of view I encounter, no matter how odious some aspects of it might be.
One problem I have with many male poster viewpoints I come across is that they are essentially asking modern women to change, on their own, who they are attracted to and how much attraction they feel. In my opinion, most people have only limited agency in this regard. There is certainly an evolved biological aspect to what females are attracted to, as well as an individual idiosyncratic dimension. But culture also plays a large role, if sometimes only as the lens through which these biological impulses are expressed.
So it makes me frustrated and even angry when many male points of view basically amount to: 'certain women should pair up with men they cannot feel attracted to just for the good of society'. That just seems unfair and wrong. And it leads to problems down the road, such as the cliche of the traditional henpecked husband whose nagging wife does not respect him and never sleeps with him.
To the extent that there is a disequilibrium between male and female attraction levels, especially at the lower ends of the respective SMV hierarchies, such a problem is only solved by wide-scale cultural change in my opinion. Even F. Robert Devlin in his (in)famous (in the manosphere) work 'Sexual Utopia in Power' made this crucial connection. He critically mentioned that, beginning with film, the ability of women to see handsome and successful movie stars to then compare their husbands to had a major impact in terms of making the average man less attractive to the average woman. He also mentioned that when men no longer had the cachet of having naturally superior experience in the outside world combined with greater wealth due to preferential hiring practices, this also made the average man less attractive to the average woman.
I do understand the argument that there is a distinction between raw female lust for, and overall attraction to, a man. Some women argue that women never found high status itself sexually attractive, but rather it just made a man attractive for a relationship under conditions of female economic dependence. I would argue that such an easy distinction is not true. Male status and competence do add to raw female sexual desire for a man. It is a complex equation, of course. Basic male physical beauty has always played a part as well.
I would also argue that the female situation is not symmetrical to the male. No doubt constant exposure to the most beautiful women on the world via the digital culture has also dampened the average male's attraction to the average female. But due to differing attraction and sexuality dynamics between the sexes, including a lack of hypergamy among men, the overall effect is not the same. Most average men can still find their female equivalent sufficiently attractive to have enthusiastic sex with them, as well as to want to pair up with them for child raising. That said, of course many cultural changes could improve things for men on this score as well.
So I am in no way advocating we necessarily try to roll back the clock to recreate the exact circumstances present in olden days that facilitated female attraction to average men. But I do argue that if we want to fix the current disequilibrium (one that seems to be growing) we will need cultural changes that facilitate greater female attraction to the average guy. You can't just ask women to magically change what they find desirable. Now, what forms these changes could take are up for discussion. Perhaps curtailing social media. Less scantily clad men and women on TV and movies and in magazines. Maybe men need to make a one-time, across the board adaptation to female emancipation by spending as much time as women do on both their appearance as well as domestic work, etc. But just saying the average woman should fuck the average guy, even when she doesn't find him attractive, shows a total lack of empathy for women and a basic lack of understanding for human psychology.
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[–]Sicilian_Drag0n0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]GullibleClassic10 points1 point2 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]Cimorene8634F Masculine Egalitarian Gamer1 point2 points3 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]GullibleClassic10 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Cimorene8634F Masculine Egalitarian Gamer0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Jaktenba0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]Cimorene8634F Masculine Egalitarian Gamer0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Jaktenba0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Cimorene8634F Masculine Egalitarian Gamer0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]rhyth70 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]Cimorene8634F Masculine Egalitarian Gamer0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]rhyth70 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Cimorene8634F Masculine Egalitarian Gamer0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]rhyth70 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]0seagirl0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Cimorene8634F Masculine Egalitarian Gamer0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]StabbyPantsPillhead0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]CloacaDiddler9 points10 points11 points (29 children) | Copy Link
[–]0seagirl11 points12 points13 points (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]diladusta5 points6 points7 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]CloacaDiddler6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]diladusta2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
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[–]diladusta0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]WilliamWyattD[S] 4 points5 points6 points (16 children) | Copy Link
[–]CloacaDiddler4 points5 points6 points (15 children) | Copy Link
[–]reLincolnX4 points5 points6 points (13 children) | Copy Link
[–]Zombombaby2 points3 points4 points (12 children) | Copy Link
[–]reLincolnX1 point2 points3 points (11 children) | Copy Link
[–]Zombombaby0 points1 point2 points (10 children) | Copy Link
[–]reLincolnX2 points3 points4 points (9 children) | Copy Link
[–]Zombombaby2 points3 points4 points (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]reLincolnX0 points1 point2 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]WilliamWyattD[S] 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]InsertWittyJoke0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Violetspectrumdisrdr-1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]Mrs_DrgreeMarried to Automod[M] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]Mrs_DrgreeMarried to Automod[M] -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]akihonj1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]SeemedGood1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]thasixohfour1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]YveisGrey5 points6 points7 points (7 children) | Copy Link
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[–]WilliamWyattD[S] 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]YveisGrey1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Redpillisposion0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Jaktenba-1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]0seagirl3 points4 points5 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]StabbyPantsPillhead0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]YasuotheChosenOne1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]StabbyPantsPillhead0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]byteME0074 points5 points6 points (16 children) | Copy Link
[–]TrajanOptimus11718 points19 points20 points (10 children) | Copy Link
[–]InsertWittyJoke5 points6 points7 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]TrajanOptimus1173 points4 points5 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]InsertWittyJoke1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]darker_black1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]TrajanOptimus1170 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
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[–]rhyth72 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]byteME0072 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]TrajanOptimus1171 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]superincongruent0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]WilliamWyattD[S] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]michael1962-01-2 points-1 points0 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]byteME0071 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]PickleLineSimp for Low N-Count women1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]michael1962-01-1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Matt_Door1 point2 points3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]not_a_troll_420_690 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]CopperstonerA "Chad" for Incels, a "Beta" for Red Pillers0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
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[–]GullibleClassic12 points3 points4 points (16 children) | Copy Link
[–]mydikishomofobik0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point (14 children) | Copy Link
[–]GullibleClassic16 points7 points8 points (13 children) | Copy Link
[–]RottingAway903 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points (11 children) | Copy Link
[–]GullibleClassic14 points5 points6 points (10 children) | Copy Link
[–]thetruthishere_4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]GullibleClassic14 points5 points6 points (7 children) | Copy Link
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[–]GullibleClassic12 points3 points4 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]AutoModerator[M] 0 points1 point2 points (54 children) | Copy Link
[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]spacechicken1990big tiddy goth gf11 points12 points13 points (49 children) | Copy Link
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[–]EcocavalryShort bald janitor2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]WilliamWyattD[S] 5 points6 points7 points (26 children) | Copy Link
[–]spacechicken1990big tiddy goth gf4 points5 points6 points (25 children) | Copy Link
[–]Jip_Jaap_Stam3 points4 points5 points (2 children) | Copy Link
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[–]Jip_Jaap_Stam0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]WilliamWyattD[S] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]LeJacquelopeMale thirst is as much our enemy as female hypergamy0 points1 point2 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]spacechicken1990big tiddy goth gf0 points1 point2 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]LeJacquelopeMale thirst is as much our enemy as female hypergamy0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]spacechicken1990big tiddy goth gf0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]LeJacquelopeMale thirst is as much our enemy as female hypergamy0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]spacechicken1990big tiddy goth gf0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Legitimate-Return-140 points1 point2 points (13 children) | Copy Link
[–]spacechicken1990big tiddy goth gf1 point2 points3 points (12 children) | Copy Link
[–]Legitimate-Return-141 point2 points3 points (11 children) | Copy Link
[–]thetruthishere_0 points1 point2 points (10 children) | Copy Link
[–]Legitimate-Return-141 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]LeJacquelopeMale thirst is as much our enemy as female hypergamy0 points1 point2 points (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]thetruthishere_0 points1 point2 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points (16 children) | Copy Link
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[–]spacechicken1990big tiddy goth gf5 points6 points7 points (8 children) | Copy Link
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[–]spacechicken1990big tiddy goth gf5 points6 points7 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]xXxINCELFAGGOTxXxIt is what it is3 points4 points5 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]spacechicken1990big tiddy goth gf4 points5 points6 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]LeJacquelopeMale thirst is as much our enemy as female hypergamy0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]LeJacquelopeMale thirst is as much our enemy as female hypergamy0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]spacechicken1990big tiddy goth gf2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]OutOfOranges[M] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]LeJacquelopeMale thirst is as much our enemy as female hypergamy0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]spacechicken1990big tiddy goth gf0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]LeJacquelopeMale thirst is as much our enemy as female hypergamy0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]OutOfOranges[M] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]LeJacquelopeMale thirst is as much our enemy as female hypergamy0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]spacechicken1990big tiddy goth gf0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]LeJacquelopeMale thirst is as much our enemy as female hypergamy-1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]RottingAway901 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]WilliamWyattD[S] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]ReisiluuUnlearning0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]WilliamWyattD[S] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]wtknightGen X Slacker[M] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]greym8iii0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Shenaniboozle0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]WilliamWyattD[S] 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Shenaniboozle0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]PMmeareasontoliveNeither casual nor marriage0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Supernumiphone0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]withersgsreddit0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]cast-away-ramadi060 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]methylotrophMGHOW0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]the40yearoldincel0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]OG_walrusSecurity guard at Chad's harem0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]BumblingBetaWannabe Chad Thundercock0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]sefMR0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]wesborlandisagod50 points1 point2 points (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]WilliamWyattD[S] 0 points1 point2 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]wesborlandisagod50 points1 point2 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]WilliamWyattD[S] 0 points1 point2 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]wesborlandisagod50 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]WilliamWyattD[S] 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]wesborlandisagod50 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
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[–]wesborlandisagod50 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Roachcluster0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]carlsberg240 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]WilliamWyattD[S] 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
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[–]WilliamWyattD[S] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]michael1962-010 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]WilliamWyattD[S] 2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
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[–]AvrilVignt0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]wtknightGen X Slacker-1 points0 points1 point (9 children) | Copy Link
[–]Jaktenba0 points1 point2 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]wtknightGen X Slacker1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]RottingAway901 point2 points3 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]Jaktenba0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]RottingAway901 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Jaktenba0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]RottingAway901 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]NauplieliusPurple Pill Man0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]wtknightGen X Slacker0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Master-Edward-3-1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]mae1995111-1 points0 points1 point (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]WilliamWyattD[S] 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
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