I recently attended a fund-raising dinner at a local drop-in center. One of my good friends is involved in running the place so I figured I'd go along and show my support.
For those who don't know what a drop-in center is, its a place where homeless people can go to take shelter temporarily and get support. They don't have beds per-se, but they do have things like showers and a soup kitchen, as well as people who can assist with re-integrating the homeless into the workforce.
Fundraisers at places like these of course attract a small army of self aggrandizing leftist faux-bleeding heart assholes, and on this particular night they were out in force. The room was full of LGBTQRSWTFBBQ's, hipsters, artists, feminists, SJWs and all kind of other socialites who just couldn't wait to show how edgy and charitable they were by oh-so-selflessly supporting the downtrodden.
The main attraction was a speech from a reformed homeless guy named Craig. Craig told us his story as a case study into how this drop-in centre saved him from oblivion, and thus why its such an important feature of any self respecting community. Craig's story went something like this:
- Craig was an average beta guy working an unimpressive yet stable white collar admin job.
- Then, his wife walked out on him and took the kids.
- As a result, Craig was unhappy.
- Craig turned to alcohol to drown his sorrows.
- Soon, he became an alcoholic. As a result, he couldn't function well enough to keep his job, and he got fired.
- Without a source of income, and addicted to booze, Craig soon lost his rental home because he had no money.
- For a while he stayed with friends, but ended up developing a habit of stealing from them to buy alcohol, so most of his friends turfed him out. So he ended up on the street.
- Once on the street he turned to harder drugs to escape his misery and eventually landed a full time job as a heroin addict.
- Because heroin costs money, and Craig didn't have any, he started robbing people and breaking and entering.
- In constant trouble with the law, addicted to smack, and on death's door, Craig was in a crisis.
- Then someone pointed him in the direction of the drop in center and they helped him get back on his feet.
- As a result of a huge amount of assistance generously donated by the volunteers at the drop in center, Craig now has a job again and he's not homeless anymore.
Of course the assembled crowd absolutely slobbered over this guy and his incredible stories from the street. His speech was met with thunderous applause from the audience and he was mobbed with well wishers afterwards, all of whom wanted to get up close to this Jesus-like representative of the homeless. People were gasping with admiration saying stuff like "What strength of character, what ability to endure! What a hero!" etc etc.
I didn't say anything at the time, but I was totally disgusted.
This guy Craig is a fucking asshole. All he has done his entire life is be a useless burden on society. From his lack of ambition and drive which saw him in a shitty job to begin with, the entire timeline of his story involves him taking, taking, taking from society and giving nothing back. He bashed innocent people for money, stole their property to support his habit, doped himself up all day, then benefited from hundreds of hours volunteered by the staff at the drop in centre, and now is back worse off than when he started, his brain fried by nearly a decade of heroin addiction.
So what is Craig's reward for his complete inability to take any personal responsibility for his choices, his actions and therefore his life? The endless admiration of an entire room full of people waxing lyrical about his "courage" and "strength".
Thing is, the first half of Craig's story was very similar to that of one other person in the room - me.
About 18 months before I attended this fundraiser, my wife left me, too. I found out that she'd been cheating on me for over 1.5 years of our 6 year relationship and she eventually fucked off to be with the other guy. I was plunged into a deep depression and I lost my job because I was unable to function, just like Craig. I lost a lot of my friends, because a lot of them had met me when I was married and it was "too weird" for them now that I was divorced. My ex took a huge chunk of my money, and combined with the costs involved in renting a new apartment and losing my job, I nearly went broke.
But I didn't turn to alcohol. Though I went to some fucking dark places, I just kinda kept stepping forward and eating the pain. With time, it gets better, and once the worst was over, I started to rebuild. I did all the usual shit - I began lifting, got a new job, lost weight, got fit. Started approaching, got laid some, made new friends, started having fun with life again. I rebuilt my finances and my social life. It took forever and it was extremely difficult but now I'm 100x happier than I was when I was married, and more importantly I've discovered what it means to be a man.
Thing is, I'll never have an audience cheering for me. I'm not enough of a victim. I don't have any stories to tell you about how I bashed some guy or ran from the cops. I was never a burden to anyone, and I didn't make my problems anyone's responsibility but my own. Hardly anyone even knows about all the anguish and the turmoil I went through because I make a habit of not forcing it on anyone who doesn't ask, because I think its fucking rude (outside a forum like this one, for example). I just sat in my bedroom alone and ate the pain with quiet dignity. "Man gets royally fucked over but quietly endures without bothering anyone" just isn't an interesting story.
Today's society is a race to the bottom to see who can paint themselves as the most downtrodden, desperate victim as possible. On the other side, you have the other race to the bottom to see who can display the biggest outpouring of altruistic generosity for those downtrodden. Our heroes are those who are the most pathetic, the most dejected, the most parasitic and the most useless, and their ever so generous and charitable saviors. There is no room to appreciate a man like you, who shows independence, self worth, self sufficiency and strength.
Remember this as you go on your journey through TRP - modern society HATES the strong, and loves the weak. We here at TRP are fighting to make ourselves the strong, and as such we will always be denigrated as oppressors and patriarchal bullies, simply by default. The stronger of a man you become, the less valuable you are to people who worship the weak to enhance their own sense of self worth.
Don't get distracted. You're not doing this for the applause, and you're not going to get any. You're doing it for yourself.
Dude.
It's like the prodigal son in the bible. (I'm not a christian but its a great story)
That banquet that the Dad throws that his son is back is his reward in full. That's all Craig gets, that applause, he doesn't get pussy for it, he gets some pity and sympathy and oh well done you survived.
You get tangible shit, you got your life back on track, you've got money, women etc.
You are the older brother and frankly you are the one who won. Who gives a fuck about the fact you didn't get some pity and fake admiration.
Agreed. OP is seeing that leftists resent strength and celebrate some Utopian equality, but at the end of the day it doesnt fucking matter.
The progressive service workers applaud his story because as the dude said these are the leftiest of leftists, and that story reaffirms their deep belief in equality and fairness and the value of lowering yourself and spending your valuable time to help out someone lower on the totem pole then yourself. Thats why they are moved. They dont really give two fucks about the guy, as OP mentioned himself they are fake bleeding hearts. But all of that shit, all of the praise and circle jerkery and patting on the back doesnt mean shit. It has little to no real world value.
After he told that story, no man in that room worth his salt actually respected the now reformed hobo as a powerful man, no woman got wet hearing his story of strong character and wanted to suck his dick. And thats why it doesnt fucking matter. I am not concerned with pats on the back or wagging fingers, I am concerned with practical results and power. All males respond to a man of real power with respect/fear on a deep level. All females respond to a man of power with attraction on a deep level. So I ask myself, are the women I'm sleeping with deeply attracted to me and begging me to dominate them in every way? Yes. Do men on a deep level respect me as powerful and seek my advice and friendship? Yes. Do I respect and admire my own power and self. Yes. Ok great. Thats all that matters.
I dont give a fuck if anyone claps for my life story when i succeed or throws me a pity party when i dont. I dont care for their judgement, I'm only concerned with what effects I cause on their reptilian brain.
Taken from a manifesto:
Leftists tend to hate anything that has an image of being strong, good and successful. They hate America, they hate Western civilization, they hate white males, they hate rationality. The reasons that leftists give for hating the West, etc. clearly do not correspond with their real motives. They SAY they hate the West because it is warlike, imperialistic, sexist, ethnocentric and so forth, but where these same faults appear in socialist countries or in primitive cultures, the leftist finds excuses for them, or at best he GRUDGINGLY admits that they exist; whereas he ENTHUSIASTICALLY points out (and often greatly exaggerates) these faults where they appear in Western civilization. Thus it is clear that these faults are not the leftist's real motive for hating America and the West. He hates America and the West because they are strong and successful.
Words like "self-confidence," "self-reliance," "initiative", "enterprise," "optimism," etc. play little role in the liberal and leftist vocabulary. The leftist is anti-individualistic, pro-collectivist. He wants society to solve everyone's needs for them, take care of them. He is not the sort of person who has an inner sense of confidence in his own ability to solve his own problems and satisfy his own needs. The leftist is antagonistic to the concept of competition because, deep inside, he feels like a loser.
Mod request to sticky this. Just copy pasted a bunch of leftist friends, can't wait to see them spin into orbit. Nice find
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Wow. Thank you for the heads up. Disclaimer: I post things that I do and do not endorse.
That being said, UB didn't have TRP as a resource. Perhaps if he had somewhere to blow off steam he would have emerged from the anger phase and NOT committed a terrible act of violence.
A lot of people misunderstand what the parable of the Prodigal Son is supposed to teach. I would go as far as saying it's probably a misunderstanding of it that led to the current state of western society, its culture is mainly based on Christianity after all.
The first thing people seem to forget is that the prodigal son came back in humility, he told his father he was no longer worthy of being called his son and asked to be his servant. Do you really think Craig came to that drop-in full of remorse? It's possible, but more likely than not, he was sorry that he ran out of options, not that he harmed people because of his drug addiction.
Second thing is that the parable is supposed to refer to God's love, which is understood to be perfect (every time Jesus tells a parable and there is a master or a father in the story, you can be pretty sure it refers to God). Now, Christians are called to try to love their neighbor in way that resembles God's love, but there are two important caveats: they must realize they are not perfect and they must not use it to fuel a sense of self-righteousness. It again comes back to humility.
Humility is at the center of the disagreement between Christian (and likely other religion's) type of charity and the socialist type. Leftists hate the christian-run charities because of the "moralizing". What it really is is an instance on humility since it's the best indicator of a real change of heart. You can't force a person to improve their life if they don't feel like doing it themselves, and volunteering for these people isn't wrong, it's just a waste of time, time that could be better spent helping people who really welcome the help.
Great point hadn't thought about that last "moralizing" bit. Very insightful
I need to read up more of your stuff. Surprising to see Christian talk being upvoted nowadays in secular setting.
TRP is secular, but it isn't as hostile to Christianity as most of reddit, or western societies in general. Notice Dalrock is the 3rd link on the list, and I'm sure even the most die-hard atheist redpiller can appreciate his wisdom.
I think most people who are averse to Christians have either experienced, or constructed in their head, the image of the evangelizing american redneck, and understandably want nothing to do with them. I feel the same towards the atheist evangelist, or the unapologetic leftist: it's very hard to want to converse with someone who believes people who do not share their point of view are not simply misguided, but evil. So I prefer to stick to the realm of ideas, not "truths". If the ideas are appealing, people will find their own way to what the truth, whatever it may be.
In this translation it seems like the father had welled up with compassion before the Craig-son had said anything though. And he says to his servants and to his other son that the feast was justified because the Craig-son was dead and is now found, not that he showed humility. Though the humility was indicative of a good character trait.
That's an interesting point about God's love etc. Reminds me of the God > Man > Woman > Child love-hierarchy we talk about.
Indeed, I think all translations convey pretty much the same thing: the father is just happy that his son has come back to him, humility was not a condition for his love. Still, I'd argue it's still not an example we can completely follow.
Humility is intricately tied to the concept of mercy. God's mercy is understood to be boundless, whereas that of man is not. It's important to remember that at the time of writing of these texts, the idea that one had to be humble to people who held power over them was obvious. Being rude to someone who had the money or influence to hire mercenaries could cost you your life. It was therefore not necessary to remind people of the need for humility. But removing humility as a precondition for more-than generous treatment was there to illustrate just how far God's mercy could go. In other words, a story where the prodigal son would simply show up, say "'sup dad, what's for dinner?" would have been unimaginable. There's plenty of instances where the father or master is angry, or at the very least displeased.
Which brings us to a second point: the father knows his own son, in a way regular people can not know strangers. When the son left to see the world, the father knew his son was simply misguided, inexperienced, and needed to go figure things out for himself. He was not a bad person, simply foolish and impulsive. So when he saw his son come back, the father knew in advance that he came humbled and in need of help and love. Similarly, God is supposed to be the only one who truly knows our intentions, and so he can truly display this kind of mercy, whereas most people simply cannot. The different christian denominations still teach about humility, none of them pretend that God will love you "no matter what". There is a need to repent, there is a need for regret and there is a need for humility. Helping fuck ups "no matter what" is not what Christian charity is. Extending them our love and offering them help should they decide to take the journey themselves is.
I might be going off topic, but this touches on a little philosophy I conjured today, that I'm sure has been thought of before.
God, if he exists, is all-powerful and also all-loving, as we are all familiar. But this combination of character traits is a "say what?" to us intuitively because we associate very powerful people being tyrants. I'm going to sound like I'm making a joke and I partly am because I can't phrase it better, but God doesn't exert energy to act like an asshole (as far as we know) because he doesn't have emotional baggage like we do; he didn't have a childhood with pockets of uncertainty/neglect/abuse. Incredibly rich people who burn coals into their household slaves are projecting the parts they don't like about themselves, or their 'bad' selves from their childhood, onto their victims, and they themselves play the 'winner' of that toxic relationship from their infancy/childhood/playground days. God is at the top of the food chain but he's not a fuck-up, supposedly. So he's the RP ideal (haha): all-powerful, and not a bitter, vengeful dick because of his past. As a result, love naturally flows from him to those less powerful than him. Reflecting on this bit of wisdom today assuages my occasional preponderances that my RP-selfishness is bad because I'm not actively paving the way for both leeches and people who desperately need to get pulled out of the ditch so they can make something of their lives. (EDIT: Assuages those uncertain inklings because I know deep down that accumulating power is what I want, and God, who is the #1 we should theoretically be emulating, is the most powerful guy in the universe. Getting over your past so you don't act like a dick to others once that power is reached is also in line with being like God, or daresay I, becoming a god.)
Going back to the story, and going back to your point here that Christianity is about being all-loving and all-forgiving even when you don't have influence over someone else (though I would argue that being benevolent towards someone more powerful than you can be a lot like doing a favor for your boss; it'll go unnoticed and with the assumption that the action naturally selfish intentions), I can see that the father was exercising benevolence; it's just too bad that he couldn't give it to his other son too. The non-prodigal son didn't need forgiveness in this situation, but the fact that the father gave the attention/benevolence to the son who did wrong gives me an itch like something needs to be corrected there.
That is the key point of the Christian faith. The Hebrew God was a "jealous and angry God" (Deuteronomy 6:15) but the Christian God is all loving and infinitely merciful. The reconciliation between the two is that the Christian God experienced what it is like to be man.
I was going to write something similar in my last comment, but it was already pretty long. We tend to give human motivations to God because that's all that we know, yet if we take the idea of an all-powerful entity that created the world seriously, these motivations and emotions do not make sense. So paradoxically, the Son of God both made God appear more human, since he experienced humanity firsthand, yet clarified that he is decidedly not human. I'm sure a lot more in-depth theology has been written about the paradox of the Holy Trinity, so I'll leave it at that.
Not quite, since he is not human, it's not even useful to try to compare yourself to God. And there's the part about humility, God is not humble and has no reason to be. If you want, the RP ideal would be a person who follows God's commandment, but from a position of strength.
As others mentioned, the good son's reward is that he acquired a good work ethic, and certainly has the trust and love of his father, even if it was not outwardly displayed. That itch was the point of the parable, it was to soften the hearts of the people he was talking to. Everyone wants to feel that the world is just, but we know it isn't, and this is a reminder that it's easy to demand justice when it profits us, but sometimes it is better to give people mercy, and that mercy does not make you lose anything. Had the prodigal son not come back, there would have been no feast, so the good son hasn't lost anything.
OP is right to say our society prefers victims to winners, and that is sets a dangerous climate for the future. But people are also right to tell him not to be angry, that he has more than Craig. He has the self respect, ethic and endurance of a person who should be admired, while Craig is, at best, a redeemed person who will have to live with the burden of his sins for the rest of his life, at worst, putting up a facade and still a fuck up deep down. There is nothing to envy in Craig or the prodigal son.
The good son has now the chance to learn about greed, jealousy and all the other emotions he now gets to feel when he sees the treatment the prodigal son receives. It's an amazing lesson in how the world just isn't "fair".
You simply aren't getting the point of the story.
More like, you seem to be annoyed that someone was forgiven. The older son has his stable life with his father, he was raised well and is living life as the man his father raised him to be.
The younger son, had to squander a fortune to learn his lesson in life. The son came back, begging to live with his father as help, not as his son.
If anything, the point you need to see is how the story is also a lesson for the older son in learning that life is not fair. No two people can expect the same treatment. The prodigal son has dealt with his selfishness and greed, the son who remained now gets to battle with the demons of greed and jealousy after seeing his father take the son back into their home and celebrate his return in such a lavish manner.
I agree, though I would add that Craig is rebuilding his network of schlubs to steal from/take advantage of in the future when he inevitably stumbles. How do you get a dog to repeat a trick? Reward him for it.
he takes advantage of the gullible, so?
Making it your life is not the best of ideas.
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TRP is about more then "fuck bitches, get money" dude. Good post OP
Never said anything about that bud. This just has martyr complex written all over it is all.
While I wouldn't be so harsh on Craig, I agree with the main idea of the post: the stronger you are the less anyone cares about.
Similar story here. Wife left about 8 months ago. I hit rock bottom in the subsequent weeks; by then my beta friends would be around, call me, stay in touch, etc. Later I found TRP and eventually started to rebuild my life. Went monk mode, started lifting, cleaned diet, put my hormones back into order (I have hypogonadism; got into TRT), started going out, getting lays, putting my finances in order (for this, it will take a LONG time). With time I was left only with a couple of friends that are happy about my progress. All the rest disappeared.
People still don't care. They just want to look good. It's all about passing on genes or increasing social status. That's all humans care about.
You will find that as you improve, those "friends" will fall by the wayside. You will ask yourself why you ever hung out with them.
It's actually deeper.
According to ancient Hebrew law, when the prodigal son asks for his share of the inheritance and leaves, he literally is taking half of his father's net worth and bouncing. He of course squanders it on worthless shit.
The older son stays home and dutifully tends to the life his father built. However, it should be noted that the inheritance is his now. Because the father divvied up his assets, the other half is now his older son's.
So when the father runs out to throw a party for the younger son, he is using the OLDER SON'S net worth. So when the older son get's pissed, not only is he pissed about the father giving attention to the younger son who disrespected his father, he's pissed because literally the older son has to pay for his return (sounds like social safety net paid for by your taxes anyone?)
The father realized he can't give his sons anything at all: He gave resources to one son and know-how to the other. And, still they couldn't make something out of themselves. Both sons lack drive and ambition to do anything. This is kinda the stuff we see in family companies. One generation builds, the next does not do anything useful.
The fathers next logical step in the game would be to give the ultimate motivator: The scaricity that will come once the second half of his fortune is taken away.
Of course, you're absolutely right, and that's part of the point I'm making. I don't covet the adulation of others and I never have, but in today's world we are taught that the guy getting the cheers and the applause is the hero. I think its dangerous to assume that you're somehow worthy just because people are applauding you, and I'm using Craig as an example of how that's not always the case.
I think a lot of young men might see a guy getting a lot of attention and praise and think "I wanna be like that guy". But I think its important to ask yourself, do you want to be like that guy for his accomplishments and his substance, or just because you want everyone to love you?
You don't want the praise of people who cannot understand what you have gone through, it is hollow.
However, if an alpha who has suffered and overcome the same hardships as you gives you praise, it would be disrespectful not to appreciate it.
To relate it to your story, who gives a fuck about the opinion of a bunch of self-indulgent hippies who are completely disconnected from reality. Their praise means nothing. By reaching higher levels of success you have earned yourself a spot among those who have taken the same journey, and whole there are fewer of you your mutual respect is far more valuable.
So your title should not conclude "the less anyone cares about you". The stronger you become, the better the people who will care about you, even though they might be far and few between.
Well said, and nice anology. We don't do what we do for a party, we do it for personal fulfillment and people who overcome great odds, even if self-inflicted, should be lauded for a figurehead for a community.
It's like at work when I hear people complaining about not getting any praise when doing a good job. How's about a steady paycheck in your bank account every couple of weeks? That's good enough for me.
At my nephews funeral the preacher asked "When was the prodigal son saved? When he got home? Or when he started his journey back?" Many here on TRP will say I'm not RP yet. I say they always were, it just takes time to hammer out the dents.
I remember seeing a story like this one the local news. A Homeless man torn from alcohol and severe drug addiction. Thew news or a group of people decided to "groom" him up and get him a job. Yeah it was a decent "feel good" piece of news until the month later he got fired on the job for being on drugs and he's back where he started.
Waste of resources and time.
The audience isn't cheering for Craig. People in the audience are cheering for themselves.
A snapshot of the mind of a crowd member:
"What a good person I am and how nice it is that I am here with other good people who see me cheering with them. And how amazing is this Craig dude. He brings out the good in me for everybody to see. I'ma go shake his hand real quick after this round of applause. I hope someone takes a picture and posts it online."
It's that illusion of altruism that gets these people off. They smack their hands together for this reformed loser then go home and wank it to the thought that they'll be perceived as being good people. It's all a load of shit. They don't actually care. They'll be tweeting and posting during Craig's speech about how moving it is, but in reality they're showing off.
It can be debated whether all altruism is narcissistic or not.
Public versus private altruism. Anyone making a big show of it is a hypocrite. That's why I hate so much whenever anyone says 'Oh so and so celebrity is SUCH a good person, they blah blah.' The mark of a good person is what they do when no one will ever find out.
Matthew 6:2, not that I'm a Jesus Freak but I'm pretty sure Jesus has said numerous other things to the same effect.
Sure, its much less obnoxious but you can still argue that you are making it for yourself.
I don't think so. I guess it depends on the person but an adult should be perfectly capable of doing the right thing or a good thing for it's own sake without getting all self congratulatory. If I decide to give a buck to a bum which I almost never do I don't feel all high from it or anything I just do it same as if I like swept up some broken glass so dogs don't walk on it or whatever.
But what if your example inspires others to give?
Or if altruism even exists. But, in this example it most certainly does not.
In a lot of cases of socialites giving to or working for charities it could be interpreted as the ultimate status symbol. But still it's generally better they spend money/time on that than another yacht.
Yacht builders gotta eat too.
I get that you're joking, but if you're curious where I'm coming from check out Luxury Fever: Why Money Fails to Satisfy in an Era of Excess by Robert H. Frank.
I wouldn't say it isn't true altruism. It may be poorly placed though.
Alternatively, it could be debated whether an action is an instance of altruism or a manifestation of narcissism.
Exactly. They don't give a shit about Craig once he's out of the limelight.
the mob mentality is fuckin disgusting
Just remember that every community has one, to some extent.
Even bits of it in here if you look around.
If you listen to fools, then the mob rules.
Not only are they using it as an opportunity to self-aggrandize, they clap for the story because it reaffirms their progressive beliefs and world view, it comforts them and soothes their strained brain thinking about "is helping the poor even worth it? Are people hopeless? Do I really mean anything?? Maybe I should just let nature and natural selection weed out the weaklings and have the strong rise to the top on their own...".
But no, the hobo's story symbolizes everything that progressives jizz over; the value of helping the needy so that there are not huge gaps in power and hierarchy. Were all special snowflakes remember? So yes they are clapping for themselves in an egoic way but they are also genuinely applauding the story because it makes them feel like their world view is right and soothes any doubts they may have had. It strengthens their own resolve to keep trodding the path they are on. Not just "oh hey look at how ethical I am!!!"
This is the symptom of excuses for many... you hit it spot on. People aren't cheering for Craig. They're cheering for themselves, so people can see them cheering. It's almost like edgy comedy or shock jocks on radio. They want to root for the lowest of low bc then they're unique and stand out.
That cheering was just a cry for attention. Also a very bad future back up plan that will get some of them killed. As they think "I can't get a job and take too many pills to pass a drug screening (can't work like other people with out my adderall!)... but that one guy with that story I went to made it work... someone will bail me out..." disgusting.
Exactly, they wouldn't so much as to speak to this guy outside of this setting
Very true. In addition, they're cheering for weakness itself. We've romanticized this idea of losing everything and building yourself back up, and I suspect that it's hampering our ability to succeed. People are discouraged if they've not suffered some tragedy, and wait until something bad happens before feeling motivated enough to pursue their goals. Of course, once they've lost everything, it's a helluva lot harder to build yourself up to greatness. Hence, the herd keeps on celebrating these stories, keeping as many people as possible among their mediocre ranks.
Mate this is fucking gold. I hope you get the upvotes this deserves.
Through my rebirth no one cheered me on when I achieved my goals and when I became a more dominant man, the thing I heard the most was "you're so full of yourself". Your average monkey doesn't like a winner, but they all want to be around one.
Fuck yes I'm full of myself. No one else is going to give me a standing ovation when I kick the bucket. I have to be my own biggest fan.
Thanks for the read, good fortune to you sir.
I am suspiciously motivated by this..
That's because men are moved by true grit. Terms like "quiet dignity" invoke a primitive sense of pure unadulterated manhood.
Thing is, if you want or need applause, then you already failed.
I disagree. Insecurity is a powerful motivator. The problem is that once you get mediocre/good that reservoir empties out and often people who become great found motivation from within beyond that point.
I think it's pointless to tell weak people, people who just need to focus on getting started to just "have abundance and do it for yourself man!" Maslow's hierarchy of needs has social belonging before self-actualization for a reason.
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I didn't know it was an established cognitive bias but I've heard this one before:
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." -Bertand Russell
I suppose part of TRP is letting shitty people know that they aren't special snowflakes and the world owes them nothing, while letting the people who have it together know that they could probably use more confidence.
That's why it's bad for you.
Motivation is great. It gets you started, and it'll keep you interested - for about the first week. Then, something happens. You get bored, it gets harder, you hit a snag. This is where motivation fails. This is where you need discipline. Discipline is what keeps you getting up to exercise when you really want that extra half hour of sleep. Discipline is what makes you turn down that Big Mac even though you're hungry. Discipline is what keeps you going, not motvation, and transitioning from the latter to the former is what separates the successful from the mediocre.
I fully agree, but never underestimate something that can get a ball rolling in the first place. One can just as easily come from a place of faux abundance and convince themselves they're the shit when they're not. Sometimes you need to be humbled, given perspective on what you are not.
Powerful words. Discipline is a mother fucker but it works 100%.
Why not both? I've heard that argument before, that discipline trumps motivation, but I claim that's a false dichotomy. Motivation makes it easier to be disciplined. Inspiration makes it easier to become motivated.
According to this theory, if we could find a way to be constantly inspired, we could tap into an endless supply of motivation and discipline.
I'm not saying that motivation is worthless. It's just not good for you long-term. Motivation is fantastic for getting people started on things.
At the start, yes. My point is that at some point motivation will run out, and it's usually pretty soon after you start (almost guaranteed within the first month, sometimes as little as two weeks).
I agree. However, see my point above about motivation running out.
That is true, but here's the problem: we can't be constantly inspired, at least, not on the same subject. Humans get bored. We are easily distracted by shiny new things. We are constantly inspired away from what we are currently doing. Discipline, then, is essentially the ability to ignore this new inspiration, or to adapt it to the current work.
We can be constantly inspired and constantly motivated, but then we end up being a butterfly who does lots of things but never actually accomplishes anything meaningful.
This is so true. When you become more independent people express that they do not like it and even will punish you for it, but then they will also look to be with you more.
Until you don't understand why they are doing it is very weird.
Funny anecdote. I was at a work training session, where we were performing patdowns. One of the supervisors was going around and interupting everyone in their pairs saying "do me now", and as I performed I asked him to empty his pockets because I felt something odd in there. He then pulls a baggie of alcohol, and gathers everyones attention saying of everyone, only one person found it. I stood there clapping obnlxiously looking around.
when they say full of yourself, it's because you can't get out of your own head. You improved, great... no one else is a part of it, and when you talk to them as if they should be, you are practicing solipsism... same as a hot chick.
so year, when people tell you that you're full of yourself, just remember the adeage. walk soft, and carry a big stick.
Good advice. Initially the change manifested as loud and proud, the quiet mastery is something that seems to come with more experience.
I'm working on the walking soft part right now. Cheers though!
Walking soft doesn't mean hide it. A big stick does nothing if nobody knows you have it. However, once you get yourself together, people will instinctively know without you announcing it out loud - how you carry yourself will do it for you.
I have this very same experience right now.
Damn right I am full of myself, I am my number one fan!
Alot of the responses here are correct. You get the ACTUAL reward: money, women, satisfaction, happiness. Craig got an applause from some people. So what?
Also, try to give people the benefit of the doubt. You never know what happens to people that may drive them to abuse drugs. Both of his parents could've been murdered when he was 4 years old for all we know. Personally I just feel bad for them and move on. Something like 8 out of 10 people who go to rehab end up relapsing.
As a former addict myself and someone who knows what it can do to your brain and thought process, I guarantee you Craig feels like an asshole and complete shit for still being in that life. Let him have his applause! You are above that noise and should feel happy for him and yourself!
Well sometimes when people's parents are murdered they chose to be batman instead...
I'm glad this is being pointed out. Craig is not the problem. He's a symptom. Shit it might even help him if you were to confront him and point some of this shit out.
No kidding - While he is right about the overall rah rah clapping for yourself kinda thing - let's not get carried away and try to think we know each and every one of his motivations for doing it.
Perhaps calling him an asshole may have been too strong. I was meaning to point out the massive disparity between the love and admiration shown to him by the crowd, and the fact that his story was one of perpetual weakness, not strength.
Couldn't you argue that making the decision to kick the smack is strength? Don't get me wrong starting it in the first place is hardly wise but logically speaking if he was in that life for a decade as you said in the OP he would have been very used to it and it wouldn't have phased him much anymore. The fact he looked at himself and decided he needed to sort himself out is a sign of strength to me.
It seems by painting this dichotomy you ignore the fact that someone who used to be weak can become strong by taking the right steps. After all isn't that what the point of this place is? We are learning from each other in the same way to become stronger and most of us used to be beta before being unplugged.
Take your punches like a champion and your losses like a man.
Keep in mind, there's a difference between adulation and admiration.
Contemporary society sets up ideals to create victim-heroes, and these victim-heroes receive adulation as a matter of course. It becomes a social instinct, and it is most noticeable because adulation is loud.
But biology maintains the influence of our genetic instinct, and the hero according to nature receives a far quieter, far more meaningful admiration.
Receipt of admiration should not be the goal, but it can be a rewarding mile-marker along the path to ultimate masculinity.
With admiration, there is also envy of success.
Pretty sure this is in 48 laws actually. Never appear too perfect?
This is the thing: that mindless horde of progressives cheering on Craig aren't actually doing it because they are proud of him. Rather, they are doing it because people like Craig make them feel better about themselves. On the other hand, a successful guy who appears to have everything going for them in life makes these types feel like shit. Simple really.
I think you have it backwards, To be honest.
Your reward was becoming a better person. What you gain through turmoil is worth infinitely more than what that man gained through charity.
You say you miss the accolades, pride is your weakness as much as it is his. The only difference is that the man in your story is already dead. He's being cheered on for being a failure. Just like his friends of whom he continually robbed, soon he will be dropped by the side as every other piece of trash. And what has he gained? You can bail out a sinking ship, but unless you fix the hole you have not solved the problem. The ship is still going down.
If you truly believed that then you would see what that the applause you so envy, is actually the sound of a funeral.
Men get no praise for being men. That's our blessing, and our curse. You do your job, you get paid, and you live your life in the exact way that you want. That is your applause.
This is your stoicism; wherein you find real contentment.
Reading the comments, this is a really common misunderstanding and I've obviously not made this clear enough. I don't miss the accolades, and I don't want them. I'm pointing out that the accolades are not an indication of self-worth and should not be sought out as such.
But you deserve them more. And there is nothing wrong to say that. Nobody is entitled to accolades. But it is injustice when someone like Craig gets all of them and someone like OP gets none.
But of course it was a circus and I don't think you'd like to be in Craig's place. He knows he fucked up at just about every step of the way and yet he still goes onto that stage to accept the cheers. Has he no self-respect?
People dislike winners. People hate unapologetic winners.
There used to be a thing called the underdog. And there are underdog stories today. There are people who have fallen to rock bottom (mentally i mean, not fucking drugs) and crawled up by strength of will.
The problem is everyone wants to be the underdog now. It's the equivalent of the homeless vet story. That started after vietnam b/c homeless moochers figured out you could get sympathy by buying BDUs from military surplus stores and pretending that you were in the shit.
Now everyone has worked SOOO HAARD to get where they are b/c thats what you're supposed to put on your college application. Everyone wears thick glasses because you want to look like you were a bullied nerd in school but you probably never got the nerd grades.
It's a shitty fact of life.
You should write down Craig's story, sell it for a million bucks and go on Oprah. Oh wait..someone already did that.
good topic for the sake of having it's own thread
Agreed. An entire thread of this would be good here.
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This is exactly how I saw this. Craig may have a lower trough in his comeback story, but when evaluating you for interpersonal relationships, all people care about is who you are now.
If we're talking strictly about women, the homelessness sob story probably plays well by establishing character and building rapport, but ultimately they're going to be sizing you up based on your present status as beta or alpha, and that anecdote is ultimately just conversational fodder.
I feel like the best response to this post is no response.
As a former addict, I run into your attitude a lot. I deeply believe in organizations like the one you lampooned. In your quest to claim you never "caved" and never sought attention, you have painted yourself as an even greater victim. Someone who never got appreciated for your struggles.
Why am I critical? Because you claim to understand everything about what that person went through based upon the fact that you both got divorced. Addiction is considered mostly hereditary, especially alcoholism. It's pretty convenient you got over your depression, got out of bed, and went to the gym, and shit got better. But for a huge portion of the population, depression is an illness. Not some capricious feeling. No amount of lifting and stoicism can cure major depression.
Magic mushrooms if administered in the right environment can cure depression:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KvcNVgxKSc
I've been a heroin addict for a year now and I don't get any fucking admiration nor do I expect it.
All my friends and family have deserted me even when I never used around them nor leech money off them. I worked a job for less than minimum wage which all it did was turn me to stimulants due to my insomnia and depression. I don't expect sympathy, I don't expect anything.
Just because you didn't receive any fake admiration doesn't mean you gotta shit on people like Craig. Everyone has their own battles in life mate, no need to shit on anyone.
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Put it this way: without a society to provide the substance, it's unlikely they'd be a heroin addict in the first place.
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Yeah, but I was talking about this guy. Probably western (where heroin is not naturally grown), probably urban (heroin is a city drug).
If he lived in an area where it was naturally available and there was no society then sure, I could see him being an addict, but for most heroin junkies it's society that is both the root of and solution to their problems.
But isn't his fault in the first place that he became an addict? Its irrelevant whether society, a dealer or a friend provides the substance.. Its up to the individual to succumb to the temptation or not...
Yes and no. He may have an addictive personality. If it wasn't heroin, it might well be something else. Weed, alcohol, caffeine, exercise, food... but it wouldn't be heroin.
Yes, but what is relevant is that it was provided. It doesn't matter how it was made available, only that it was.
Can't succumb if it's not there in the first place.
what's your point here, dude? Just seems like a fallacious argument with no purpose... Are you saying it costs society for this man's decisions he makes? Also, do you know how easy poppies are to grow?
What I'm saying is that society (probably) bears the cost of his addiction, but it was also a contributor to him having the addiction in the first place.
The point that I was making was in response to FatStig asserting that he could not afford to be addicted to heroin without the support of society, and my response was that it was thanks to society that he was able to pick up the habit in the first place.
This may sound naive but since you are talking on this sub maybe I could run something past you- if I ever got addicted to heroin i'd get someone to buy me a plane ticket to a country where I cant speak the language to a place in the country where they don't have the drug that I desire. I hear the withdrawals are only as bad as a really bad flu for three days then it gets easier. Why can't you do something like this, it is your life at stake.
People can die from withdrawal symptoms. Depends on how deep in you are and how bad your immune system is due to diseases that come with that life style. I use to work in a rehabilitation facility, rough place with rough people. Plus most addicts have no money to afford a plane ticket but you are right in the aspect that the best thing to do is distance yourself from those who help fuel your addiction. So many people fall back in suit because they go back to the place where the drugs are abundant.
You can't die from opiate withdrawal. Alcohol withdrawal can kill you but heroin withdrawal can't.
sorry to hear that dude. What I've found out is that 90% of people are fake. And they take and take and take.... that is until you may need a little bone thrown your way, they've never been so out of touch.
Once you started going into your story I just imagined you taking the mic and hijacking the event to tell this to everyone in a John Galt style speech.
The only audience that matters in your self improvement is you.
Normally I like the stuff on this sub, but this is such a fucking shitpost. Addiction, especially to drugs like alcohol and heroin, whose withdrawal symptoms can easily kill you, is a health issue. The desperate non-violent criminal acts are symptoms. He isn't the drain on society you claim he is; his alcohol and heroin addictions are parasitic to both him and society, threatening him with a miserable, suffering death if he doesn't comply with the demands of his addictions. Congratulations on your journey back from post-divorce depression, but you didn't suffer half the shit that Craig did.
EDIT: Also, you're pressing ideas of problematic hypermasculinity like bottling up emotions. Masculinity and all of its corollaries are important traits to have, but so too is emotional honesty and the understanding that seeking help isn't weakness. Often it seems easier, and is therefore tempting, to attempt to process all of your issues and negative emotions alone, but it's typically unproductive without a dramatic shift in situational perspective, and often psychologically and emotionally counterproductive or potentially even ruinous.
Heroin addition isn't a contagious disease. Up to what point is Craig responsible for his actions, and at what point is he no longer responsible?
It's definitely socially contagious, or it would never spread. It's not people going, Hmm, I feel particularly worthless and susceptable to vice today. Maybe I'll just run to CVS and pick up some heroin so I can become the valueless drain on society I've always aspired to be.
I think you got it all wrong.
Society doesn't care about you, at all. It's not malicious, it's just until you are beneficial to someone, they don't care.
And they shouldn't, who the fuck are you? You can lift weights? great, so can this horse. Taking care of the downtrodden isn't care either. It's still beneficial for the giver, to prove to themselves how magnanimous they are. Its why the victim needs an emotional story to go with it... Dont' forget, every homeless person with hope makes people feel good too, same as watching jerry springer makes you feel good.
No one donates to a charity devoted to people 'just down on their luck'
Also, get off your martyr box... You're not a child anymore (I hope) life doesn't owe you shit, and posting about it like this makes one look like an entitled child.
What should we do for people who need help? (Even if their need for help is a result of bad decisions.)
Its the catch a fish parable.
Weak-minded people like people who are weaker than them, because seeing and hearing those people makes them feel good about themselves.
Strong-minded people like people who are stronger than them, because seeing and hearing those people inspires them to improve themselves.
If you wish to improve yourself, hang around people you envy, and teach yourself to respect and learn from them instead.
If you wish to stagnate, hang around people you pity, and mentally masturbate about how much better than them you are.
What the fuck is wrong with you? Craig is not an asshole.
Craig took longer and went lower than you did before he turned it around. Now he's finally starting to. There is no need for the hate: that's some petty bullshit. He used some resources to help him better himself (just like this sub is a resource for many of us) and there isn't any shame in that.
How about instead you root for Craig and hope he takes further steps in improving himself? That's what we try to do here. Don't put him down to boost yourself.
That's my problem with this story. There is no need to bash a guy who went lower than OP. Craig just happened to use resources handed to him by a group of people.
There is absolutely shame in selfishly stealing from your bros when they are so kind to allow you to stay with them.
I meant using this homeless service.
He stole from his friends in order to get booze/drugs. I don't think anyone anywhere argues this is good.
He used the freely offered services of the homeless drop-in center to turn his life around, then comes back and talks up the place. That's exactly the intended use.
Craig is irrelevant but his past actions certainly do paint him as an asshole. Maybe he's turned around but I doubt it and I will explain why.
But first, let's look at the point of the story which is the reaction of the audience to Craig's story.
People love an underdog and the narrative of overcoming obstacles appeals to just about everyone. Look how far he had fallen, and now he's come so far! Really? You mean he has a job and no longer steals from his friends to support his heroin habit? Well fuck, I hardly had to overcome any obstacles at all to attain that level of grace.
Meanwhile we have people who turn things around stoically without putting a strain on society but they're not celebrated because they just didn't fall far enough to make the contrast of their everyday lives worthy of exaltation. On the other hand, the truly strong are not celebrated by these SJWs either not because the contrast of their earlier circumstances is too small, but because they don't need any help.
So what we have is not an underdog story but a celebration of weakness, rewarding the wretched with pity and attention. Going back to Craig, what kind on incentives is he getting from his story, the people who surround and support him, and their reaction to his story? He will never rise above mediocrity because as soon as he does, they will withdraw their attention. He is their beta orbiter.
So in other words you're jealous that craig got attention and you didn't? It's a story about how someone turned their life around, isn't that what were all about here?
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So, you want an applause too? Because you didn't end up like Craig? My impression is Craig got an applause because of his story, that he went from normal to junkie and thanks to others was able to come back despite being addicted to smack for a decade. What should society do with people like Craig? Shoot them like Nazi's did in WW2? Maybe I misinterpret your train of thought, but the better part of your text made me think you are jealous.
I believe his point is that the person who deals with the situation appropriately and overcomes the obstacle will not get the same praise as the person who self destructs, harms those around them, and then barely manages to come back as a semi functional adult.
Although I agree with this point, I think people here are being very shortsighted with this whole situation and truthfully I'm ashamed of theredpill right now, a reddit I have followed for some time and strongly agree with. Some one said here that it was a mob mentality that cheered Craig on so they could feel good, gloat, and many have agreed and/or stated similar posts. Other people are blaming feminism for coddling boys and creating weak men like Craig. Now that may very well be true and does happen but I think what a lot of people don't realize is none of that shit fucking matters. Not to the Craigs. Not the crowds.
I'm using Craig as an example with limited knowledge of his situation but I do know from past experience, drug abuse and alcoholism is a complicated beast that normally manifests at an early age and all it takes is one moment to set the sail that can't turn back. Craig might be a lying good for nothing with bad intentions but usually the person in that position is the result of a life filled with shitty influence and guidance from their family and community. Inevitably this leads many down the rabbit hole and only a lucky few, like Craig, manage to pull themselves out.
That applause, his story, that's the rope that keeps Craig from falling back in. That crowd cheers not to fill their selfish needs but because they also live on that dangerous and familiar edge. His story reminds them of how close they are, opens the eyes of those falling in, and reminds others to look out for their loved ones.
You know some one who might end up like Craig or worse. If you let them fall in because you can deal with the shit life throws at you and achieve moderate success, because you received less applause than a man who broke to that very same challenge, who relies on that applause and can never reach the same success, a man that is no longer free and can never be... Well you'd be no better than a feminist or the hipster poppin selfies.
EDIT: Just wanted to say that wasn't directed at you kreativsniks
"Men's greatest weakness is their facade of strength, and women's greatest strength is their facade of weakness." — Warren Farrell
"Man gets royally fucked over but quietly endures without bothering anyone" just isn't an interesting story.
Amen brother. Been through it too. Noone celebrate those who strive every day to make their piece of this world a better place for themselves and those they take care of. Every time I see a celebrity visting a (name a worthy cause) I feel a little sick inside every time they pose for the cameras. Bravo to you for supporting your friends cause. And keep up the good fight!
for some reason that reminds me of money. you know, it goes like this: "money wont make you happy". but usually it is said by more or less cheap man with no access or effort to become rich. how could he know? its like saying motorcycle riding is not cool while not having any ride at all. and while I try to find better job with moderate success, everybody keeps saying "be with us, stop trying, its not that good".
The OP is a little harsh on Craig but I get where he's coming from.
OP, this is my applau to you from all your hard work, congratulations, seriously.
Btw, many introduced Craig to TRP and maybe show him just being sober in life isn't just "good enough".
If you haven't read Ayn Rand, you should. Specifically Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead.
Ayn Rand, she's a weird writer. Kinda fascist.
You're totally right, and let us, not leftist angsty hipsters but men of meaning and fortitude deliver your applause. The guy from your story is basically a woman: shit is brought upon him by others because he is not in control of his own life. After this he gives in to impulsive and emotional behavior (drugs, or with women: the CC). When he finally breaks out shortly before it's too late, he's applauded for his years of bad behavior and giving a stable space within society at the cost of others.
You, however, a real man, realized that your life was completely in your hands and by taking responsibility you took it where you wanted it to go. You were defeated, self-actualized, fought and eventually conquered. Where you want to go, you go. Where you go, you control. Where you control, order and happiness are installed.
I congratulate you on your life and how you took it in your own hands. I hope many will follow your example.
Fact is Craig can inspire a lot of people in trouble to do likewise and can benefit society. Being a heroin addict and turning your life around takes strength no matter how much help you get.
I do agree society loves the weak and hates the strong. But that's not Craig's fault. Think the guy deserves a lot of credit.
Yep. Victim fetishism. I have seen the race to the bottom and its destroying our society. All I can do though is remove myself from that game. There is no glory in overcoming a failure of your own character. It should be expected rather than celebrated. What you do after you meet the baseline for being a normal human being is the measure of your character.
Usually manifested by taking productive people's money away from them and giving it to the unproductive.
Maybe he isn't weaker. Maybe his pain was stronger.
You aren't brave bitching to us about him. You would be braver confronting him with your own experiences. Who else in that room had the right to do that?
"The stronger of a man you become, the less valuable you are to people who worship the weak to enhance their own sense of self worth."
Powerful sentence.
Being susceptible to drugs can be a genetic condition. Although I was not homeless, a lot of factors played into my addiction. It happens to the best of us.
It is very rare that you get the credit you deserve. People just figure you are fine, and of course you are. The reward is being fucking awesome.
Altruism is BP. Selfishness is a virtue. It's unfortunate that our society is still wrapped up in collectivist ideals, thinking that helping others is a good thing whenever in reality we are just holding the strongest back. A rising tide raises all ships.
http://youtu.be/8VSBGu7-1rU
From the lexicon:
This is probably one of the more petty posts I've seen on here.
It certainly isn't the most productive mindset to have in this situation, but a necessary step in the process.
Part of the redpill is realizing nobody (hardly anybody, but you get the point) cares about you. OP should have realized that nobody gave a fuck about Craig either, they just wanted to feel some fuzzy feels over his story, and good for them, why not?
OP is in an anger phase of sorts, which is always a necessary part of developing higher-level thinking. It sucks to kick ass like he did and then not only have people ignore it, but actively praise less worthy people around him. Once he comes into acceptance of the situation, and loses his need for external validation, he'll be able to completely dominate based solely on his inner strength.
More importantly though, his conclusion is wrong. He might not get recognition from people who are still at a very low level of thought, but people who have gone through a similar process will respect him soon, and their respect is far more valuable.
Man, this is too true. About 6 years ago I had made a series of questionable (ok,bad) decisions that didn't absolutely break me, but put me in a position where I was required to attend this program for people reintegrating into society. I guess I wasn't as far gone as most in attendance, because I was able to perform and comply with all the conditions perfectly, without getting into any kind of trouble, or extra attention. Over time, the "reformed' counselors began to resent me, and I mean for NO reason. Being told I was "hiding out" in the program, I was mandated to be there, having extra, but still ridiculously easy, obstacles thrown at me during group exercises, some even refused to shake my hand at "graduation". It was like I wasn't broken enough for them. They didn't not just care, they actually disliked what they saw. Ah well, fuck'em.
Race to the bottom is so true. It's why at work I had a college educated, upper class, living from home, white woman tell me I had life "easy" solely because I'm a male and tall. People don't care to appreciate things anymore, it's all about who has life worse. Well this is the fucking U.S., and if you don't view the hand your dealt as an opportunity rather than oppression you have already lost
I suffered the same conversation with an SJW woman who went to a prestigious college. I was relating to her the time I worked as a garbage man cleaning out hoarder houses, lifting pianos and hot tubs, losing my sense of smell from spending so much time in city dumps. Basically one of the most dangerous, backbreaking, thankless jobs I could get even with a college diploma.
She just looked at me and said how privileged I am that I should even be able to get such a job because there were just so many poor disenfranchised black males who suffered from hiring discrimination.
There really is no honest conversation with someone blinded by ideology, especially one that equips them to hate cis white hetero males.
That mentality is abundant at college, the more prestigious the school the deeper the thought is rooted. The culture of an elite school is not representative of the real world at all. Date a girl go state school. Often just as smart without the holier than thou mentality
Amen, brother. If you are too strong, you are a threat. If you are weak, you are a tool that helps others realize they are better than you... Que thunderous applause.
Reminds me of the saying, "laugh and the world laughs with you. Cry, and you weep alone."
Also to quote Don Trip, "real men face the storm with a smile"
good. this is the current downfall du-jour of society.
Men dont need pity. a self-respecting man will find strength in their own sovereignty and their ability to help themselves. Im playing no voilins for craig. Fuck that guy. In the wild craig would be dead.
I think there can be another spin on this: the stronger you are, the less people care about you... because you're not someone who needs immediate help.
For example, lets say you have two sets of portfolios, one strong performer and one that's shaky. Assuming a perfect world with ideal conditions, you're not gonna give a shit about the strong portfolio because it'll be fine whether you care or not. You worry about the shaky one because that needs attention as it isn't quite well.
Ultra exaggerated/simple example, but it illustrates the point: strong men aren't cared for because we don't need to be cared for, we can sort our own shit out. The weak ones are cared for because they're not capable of doing shit themselves.
Classic example of why people rather hear about your sufferings and insecurities, it allegedly makes you more approachable and human. You're seen as inhuman if you've got all your shit together and don't have anything bringing your frame down.
As a RPM as much as it may sting to not get the same appreciation and fame as him shouldn't you be truly be indifferent to what people think of you whether they love you or hate you?
I don't think the people at that speech were cheering him for the strength of any part of that man. If I was attending, I would have cheered him not for his strength, but for the amount of change he has made. He does appear strong to the average plugged in beta, but I'll expand on that at the end.
He is at his core a weak person, addiction to anything is a crutch to hold up someone too weak to stand for himself. But, I believe this man has done an admiral thing to turn away from his weakness after feeding it for so long. He was piling shit on his back for decades, but instead of letting it crush him he turned it around. You had some serious shit piled on your back and instead of building the pile you immediately turned it around.
I also don't think modern society hates the strong, but rather take them for granted. We still have the same basic brain that humans had 100,000 years ago, that's were the last major shift in homo sapiens occurred. Back then, if you weren't strong, you weren't alive. Strength was at the core of every living man, but today there is a severe lack of challenge in the lives of men. So our brains still assume being alive equals strength where in today's world you can be a weak bitch like Craig and mooch your way to the next day for years. People just aren't looking through the illusion.
The hamster says this is strength, most won't question it.
Strength, be it physical, mental, or spiritual, is the ability to get what you want from the rest of the world. In modern society it is easier to diminish what you want to appear strong, than to actually be strong. That is what every person clapping likely does, and chooses to ignore. I am certain that Craig as a young man was ambitious, but when encountered the real world he chose the pseudo-strength of low set goals like "just getting back on his feet" instead of facing failure of the actual things he wanted.
this had me fucking laughing
Thanks for sharing as this hit really close to home. No applauses needed for manning the fuck up and dealing with our own demons and depression with "quiet dignity".
The only advice my dad gave to me: Nobody is going to feel sorry for you. It's because you are better than them.
Your marriage broke up & thats pretty sad and confronting. But from your post, it sounds like you are emerging from the bad times and ready for the next step in building your life for the future. Don't be bitter and angry. Don't begrudge charities that help other needy people. Just focus on reforming and reinventing your own character!
It's really all about the bars you set. I learned this lesson intuitively growing up. When you're the kid who doesn't pay attention in class, and spends a lot of time in the principals office, just generally suck, you set the bar really low. When you manage to get the best grades in the class, all the teachers hero worship you, this downtrodden problem child genius. They ignore the buttoned up kids who've gotten the same marks as you, because they set the bar there in the first place.
When you dick around in college and nearly drop out, and then pull your shit together and graduate making six figures, same thing.
When you're shitty to a girl, and then eventually show some semblance of caring, again, it means so much more.
Setting expectations low and then upsetting them works in all areas of life. This Craig guy isn't playing a game, but you can. Sometimes it's good to appear less than you are.
It's easy to get caught up in all the bullshit the world feeds us. I consider it a great day when once in a while TRP has a solid as fuck post like this. It's posts similar to this that remind us what we are really striving to become.
I like what you're saying for the most part and I agree with your philosophy about all this.
However, I think Craig needs a little more empathy. Is he really a "fucking asshole"? He definitely did not handle the situation like you did, but that could be for thousands of reasons that you have no idea about.
I agree that these functions are pretty fucking annoying with all the do-gooders patting each other on the back. I think if more people acted like you, there would be far fewer problems in the world.
But the reality is, most don't, many or most are much weaker, more like Craig.
It's a sad state of affairs, but it's not changing anytime soon- as long as we live in a Blue Pill World.
I pretty much agree with what you're saying...however I can also understand the fact (which we all acknowledge, every single day on here) that men as a general rule in modern society have been taught to think like Craig here. No self-confidence, no purpose or direction in life. He beta'd up hard, basically made his wife his life, and when that went away, his entire self-constricted reason for existing just broke down. I'm not making excuses, but I think we also have to realize that there's millions of men in this situation in the United States alone. By all means, I am all for the idea of being the quiet, hard-working guy. But not everyone is equipped for that. They should be, but they aren't. And, to a point, it's not 100% their fault. We have programed men to be like this.
So, while I'm not going to say that he's some sort of hero, I think it is a good thing that this guy was able to turn his life around. And of course it's even better that you were able to turn yours around with no outside assistance. Congrats on that.
Basically, my take away is that yes, absolutely, the more successful you are, the more people will perhaps learn to hate you. But there's no use in pointing that out, you don't get points for being a martyr. Instead, I think it's important that we continue to work hard to wake men the fuck up as much as possible, so we can turn this around. There are many Craigs, I'm sure we all know one in the making. Imagine how many lives would be changed if we could expose everyone to the idea of self-reliance, self-confidence, and general red pill philosophy. Think about how many people's lives wouldn't go to shit if they knew this stuff to start with.
This sums it up pretty well. The problem I see now a days is everyone seems to define themselves by what kind of sob story they can come up with, such as what kind of victim they are.
Good story, but you didn't demonstrate in any way that society HATE the strong, as you claim. And despite your disgust for that dude Craig, and the fact that he did some very shitty things and probably ISN'T very worthy of praise and admiration, getting clean and getting back into a job isn't that bad.
To me, you sound bitter about the fact that this guy is being praised, and you aren't. Well, if you want praise, then maybe you should go in front of a crowd and tell people your story! Oh wait - you just did.
True for the most part, but there are those rare individuals in history who can talk about their money, women, satisfaction, happiness and are applauded in genuine admiration. If you can hit that sweet spot of strength and like-ability, you're golden.
I am new to The Red Pill and as a biologist I immediately connected with the evolutionary psychology that is fundamental to TRP theory.
But I feel like a black sheep here when it comes to politics. Everyone on TRP seems really right on the scale and I am much more of a centrist.
You see this guy as a despicable leech and that is what you focus on. I see that this place (despite whatever annoying self-righteousness these people may display) helped him to stop being a leech. Obviously that was of value to society. We should not praise people like him but that doesn't mean we shouldn't help them get back on their feet.
Not everyone is as awesome as all of you guys. That is how biology works. There are just those in any given population that are sub par. I don't know about you guys but I don't think we lock these people up or let the rot in their own filth. I don't think we should praise them or reward them for failing but I do think we should put a limit on how far we let them fall. Being alpha in your own personal life and relationships shouldn't mean that you have to let "lesser" men suffer.
The reason we celebrate assholes like Craig is because otherwise they would be off murdering and raping our people. Jesus, think !
Great post man. I just want to say this.
I think it's because of feminist leanings that the strong don't get the respect they do anymore. Strength is a masculine quality. We know that feminism (stupidly) operates to diminish masculinity in society or at least equalize it with femininity. Because of this qualities like strength, conviction and stoicism aren't as important anymore - at least from a public perspective.
The qualities that are important are weakness, helplessness and pity. It's as you say, we live in a world where people no longer compete on who's the strongest, but who is the biggest victim. A world where being downtrodden and being helped is considered a virtue even.
Thing is that's how women, for the most part, operate. By using the victim card. By playing the helpless damsel in distress. Feminism has made that level of operation the desired one. And we as a society have blindly lapped that up. What we don't realize though, is that we need those people who don't cry for help as much as we need those who do. We need balance.
But the world we live in threatens that balance. Threatens to make us all a bunch of helpless burdens. So that big daddy government can come to the rescue. It's really sad.
I'm borrowing this. That's gold.
Please use BBQ appropriate pronouns while conversing with me. I'm a grill btw ;)
Lesbian, Gay, Transgender,Queer, RS = Real Shit?, WTF What the Fuck, BBQ = Bar B Q?
???? what am I missing, Google is not helping...
It's a joke. Don't let it worry you too much.
A lot of people are criticizing you, saying you're filled with hate. I disagree, I think it's an anger and a frustration that I completely understand but have learned to move past. I was lucky and had an extremely Alpha father. He simply told me from a young age "you're a insert my last name - your tough is tougher than most men's, your hard work is harder and longer than most men's, your effort is greater than most men's, it's how I was raised and it's how you will be too. Give up is not a phrase we accept in this house." ...and from age 12 on that's just how I saw the world. There are only two types of people, Craig's and OPs. It's just how you were made and how you were raised and it's what you accept as okay. It doesn't make Craig's bad people but it certainly makes them weaker than you and they always will be. Be kind to them, and show humanity towards them but don't concern yourself with them. People like Craig will always look to be the victim of something and people like you OP and myself can think of no thing more insulting.
I feel this is true, I used to be a beta and got more attention for being depressed and rattled with adhd. I used to gt fired my my jobs and cry every month i got tons os support and attention. So the cycle wasnt stopping. Then i started redpillin and BAM! I switched my 28 yo gf for a heram of 18 -19 yos and since I couldn't keep a job due to my adhd i started a small business and now that i am finally standing on my own two my family barely talks to me and friends from my beta days just dont get me and tell me i am just testosterone junkie. I have never been happier but i have not be rewareded with social recognition I think I deserve yet. All i got was tons of tight pussy and some money plu some toys. I wish my family would evolve with me, but i am better off with out them/
Your post is absolutely true and RedPill as fuck. I congratulate you for coming through the pain as a stronger man.
My only additional input would be: it's a trap to compare ourselves to others. The road to discontent. So what if this guy Craig got more adulation than you. That takes nothing away from what you have done. If anything, you now know for sure "what might have been" that you managed to avoid.
Besides, who gives a fuck what a bunch of "LGBTQRSWTFBBQ's, hipsters, artists, feminists, SJWs and all kind of other socialites " think, anyway?
You just saved a life. Thank you.
Why do you want to be praised for being a victim so badly? If your a strong independent type then go for it. But don't turn people away your whole life and do everything by and for yourself (not that there is anything wrong with that) and then wonder why no one knows/remembers who you are. I'm sure if you did tell your story you would be respected rather then praised, which to me has more meaning.
Yep.
I've seen it with a lot of narcissists. One sister of mine being the biggest one that I know.
Many addiction prone narcissistic personality types just eventually trade in whatever addiction they have for the socially acceptable one: attention. And recovery groups and centers give them their outlet and hit.
My sister went through every pain pill imaginable and was a raging alcoholic and self centered bitch. Now she goes to every AA meeting to binge drink coffee and smoke cigarettes and blab about herself to a captive audience all waiting to talk about themselves. She's also found many people willing to support her habit of self centeredness by showering her with attention. Her new drug and not just a self centered bitch but now a LAUDED (for doing what most of us do naturally...control ourselves) PUMPED ON SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS self centered bitch.
She was at least a little fun and subdued when a drunk.
The rest of us, for doing the right thing everyday, and pulling ourselves up by our bootstraps when needed , don't need the fucking constant affirmation of what "good little boys/girls" we're now being. We grew the fuck up. I'll take the self-empowerment over praise any day.
This is a most beautiful story of your stoicism and manliness , nothing strong got that way by accident.
There's a famous saying (serve to rule) same as Munchhausen syndrome people love to cripple you so they can serve you so that you will be dependent on them, those are the true creepy people..
There is a saying attributed to Eckhart Tolle, famous guru / spiritualist / bullshit artist - he is said to have told one of his business partners that in the "self help" business, the path to profit is to "preach independence, but breed dependence"
For me, years ago, that was a kind of redpill moment - once you understand that, you start seeing that pattern everywhere in society.
i see most people as natural or (unnatural ) vampires..
Do you need their praise? Will it help you in some way to tell you you done good? OP you are an example and solid pillar of society. You are what people want to be. Good job, keep it up. Craig gets the praise because he fell and got back up. We all fall somewhere in our lives. Hopefully he gets his shit together. Don't be resentful people don't tell you each and every day you did well. Life's a bitch then you die.
This was amazing to read because it cuts right to the heart of the problem that everyone here at TRP is trying to recognize and overcome. Not BE recognized for overcoming. Great stuff.
Fuck, Craig - you are a real life Hemingway hero.
I can't even describe how true this is. I should read this post every morning.
Great insight all around in this post. He hit rock bottom and came back - for that I give him respect. I feel that some people never had that life experience that they had to recover from, so they vicariously latch on to the people that did, subconciously hoping to gain some knowledge or validation from them.
I had been dating (and eventually married to) the same woman for about 10 years. She was selfish, but I'd never noticed it because of "love". One day I noticed that she had stopped taking her birth control (always check fellas) in an attempt to get pregnant and trap me. Things came to a head over the phone whilst I was at work, and I got home that evening to find my clothes outside in the snow.
I lived in a basement. I lived in a condemned house. I got accepted to a university and lived there.
I got a good job after graduation and started making good money.. until some bitch I don't even remember meeting accused me of sexual harassment and I quit in disgust.
(That's when I truly became RP, though I didn't know there was a name for it at the time.)
My experience was that when I had nothing, I had to be extremely regimented in order to claw my way back - everybody applauded me for this.
I'm no longer in that situation, but the same serious mindset remains - I refuse to abandon it because when my back was to the wall it was this way of thinking that was my salvation.
Now, people I meet complain that I'm "too strict "..that I should "cut people some slack ". Suddenly, the same life outlook that I was commended for in harsher times is too stringent. I refuse to compromise my approach to life and have lost many an aquaintance to it.
People admire aggressive when you're the underdog, but despise it when you're at their station and aspiring to rise further.
Cheering you here dude! well done
just remember that the strong dont surround themselves with the weak. the strong stands by itself.
The strong man surrounds himself with strong men. The nail that sticks out gets hammered.
funny how when you meet a girl and youre getting with her she will tell you a sob story to sound like shes a special snowflake and to get you to feel sorry for her.... not gonna work on us bitch
I'd however like to personally extend my gratitude to you for not being a scumbag piece of shit and breaking in to my or anyone else's house to try to make yourself feel better. I think people like Craig should be forced by the courts to pay restitution ten fold to the communities that they damage with their poor me bullshit.
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A tool of the weak? Their is a lot of wrong in this thread but this takes the cake.
Empathy is arguably the strongest tool a person can possess, the ability to connect with people on an emotional level. Now based on the tone of your post you probably think emotional means weak, crying, sad, why would you want to connect on such a pussy level? Well it can be, it can also be excitement, thrill, relax, anger, and hate the strongest of all emotions. Understanding , sharing, and connecting through empathy, whether genuine or feigned, builds trust and ultimately power.
For every hero there's a thousand regulars and a million weak, a million that can build scar tissue stronger than a regular. A real hero doesn't put down the weak, he picks them up, gives them a hammer and some guidance because you can't build anything great with just one man.
Great fucking post.
This is how I pictured you at the center:
https://youtu.be/9DW-ZDT2CwY
Excellent post and congrats on your progress.
Climbing out of the pits of darkness usually happens without a crowd below you chanting 'Deshi Bashera'.
Just to add though, nobody feels sorry for weak people either. Sure when you see someone starving right infront of you and you can't ignore him due to social pressure you'll sympathise.
Walk down the street and see all the starving homeless people and nobody gives a shit.
Put them on stage and let them tell their sad story and everyone feels so damn'moved'.
Fucking hypocrites.
'I just sat in my bedroom alone and ate the pain with quiet dignity. "Man gets royally fucked over but quietly endures without bothering anyone" just isn't an interesting story.'
This sentence really hits home with me. This is how you become stronger. You become a MAN and you deal with your shit. Been going through a lot of hard shit in my life, almost out of it...and still alive. My friends and family really have no idea what I'm going through but I don't care. I take all the pain and suffering I'm going through and fucking fight the shit out of it every single day. I know any change and progression out of the shit hole I'm in has to come from within. And I know in the end I'm strong enough to handle anything life throws at me.
Don't ever give up...life changing problems don't suddenly work themselves out overnight. Just keep fighting and know in the end you will win and you will be better for it.
+1 for "LGBTQRSWTFBBQ"
thats all I needed to hear
When you do what you're supposed to, nobody gives a fuck. You weed-and-feed your lawn, signal when you change lanes, and pay your taxes? Big deal. You're supposed to do that shit. If you fuck up and act like a manchild people want to make movies about your "story".
Unfortunately many people have bought into the reward cycle of acting like a piece of shit and getting attention for it. In reality, your barometer for success should be the level to which people essentially ignore your existence. If nobody gives a shit about you or your demographic, that's how you know you're doing something right.
I disagree. Not long ago, the highest grossing movie in the United States. People appreciated the main character for his strength and his service not his flaws.
People venerated him because he served two purposes: his story serves as a reminder of the dangers of addiction and he validates the purpose of the center. He may be pitted but do you honestly think that he is liked. I'm certain that there are a number of people who still think that he is an asshole despite pulling himself out of addiction.
Your story is actually good. Throw in a love interest and I think that people would read a book about it especially if you have a face that looks good on book covers.
Great story, and thanks for writing it. The drug addict got a lot of attention, but it was all fake and for show. Just the donators trying to make themselves fell better by having, "made a difference".
The ability to persevere and carry on during bad times is greatly admired by all people in society. Of course you know why, because it's fucking hard to do, and you are usually thrown into it without planning or forethought. Trust me, people recognize what you have done, whether it's just saying hi to you or including you in a function, or seeking your opinion on things. It's a quiet type of respect that can be easy to overlook.
thereticle, you are my hero. You make my life to look so easy. thank you.
That's the problem with the left. They're cheering for the guy breaking into your house.
Lol cheering his courage and strength. What courage and strength? The man sounds pathetic. The fact that this rodent was cheered is disgusting.
He was cheered and meanwhile you're being booed.
Welcome to western society where a mugging heroin addicted loser gets praised while a guy who tires to better himself in every way possible gets booed. Thanks communism
We should start requiring tl;drs on posts.
Sir, you are absolutely wrong....couldn't be further from the truth.
You WILL get applause from someone...US.
Great job.
This whole point is bullshit, they only PRETEND to care about the weak people because the weak people need it, because they are weak.
If you'll pay attention you'll notice that people don't drop womens panties because of how weak they are, they just get pity from them.
People TRULY care about people that are nice to them, end of story.
Also, craig is a fucking bum and did all that to himself.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
It doesn't mean anyone respects the squeaky wheel. The OP is equating 'care' to 'coddle'.
“People don't hate you for your weaknesses, they hate you for your strengths.” - Ayn Rand
One of the best posts I've read this year. Excellent analysis of the SJW think.
I had already "friended" you so I wouldn't miss your posts. Glad I caught this one.
I've always wondered why people on the 12-step program expect me to congratulate them on their "journey to recovery". That's just taking them from the negative back to neutral again, that doesn't deserve a reward. True strength is never getting to that "rock bottom" in the first place because you had more pride than a mindless animal, seeking pleasure at the cost of your life. Good for you OP, you used adversity to forge yourself into a better man rather than giving into the weakness of depravity.
Very few people have the foresight to never make mistakes with their life. It is easy to point to what someone is doing/has done as an example of failure.
Part of being an assured confident man is not feeling the need to point out the flaws of others. Yes, some people are fucked up losers but what does that have to do with how you or I live our lives?
I was wondering why so many posts agreeing with OP and the Red Pill premise that men don't need or expect rewards or praise for doing what's expected of men were being downvoted.
/u/ToshiroOzuwara showed one reason; thanks for the insight.
I don't point out flaws in others unless they ask me to evaluate them. Otherwise I just let them be, we all have different values in our lives and I don't know how best to live yours. If they never ask me for the validation during their recovery they need fear no reproach from me. However I've dealt with a lot of addicts in my life who want a pat on the back and an elevation every time they quit something, and that's not how I roll. The journey to recovery should be made for yourself, not for how others will perceive you, or it will be a short journey indeed.
Very useful article. I'm sure this type of story is particularly appealing to the type of people who expect a fucking cookie for doing what is expected of them as adults.
In the immortal words of Kenny Banya... "This is gold, Jerry. GOLD!!!"
Couple things.
Everything you said about him was spot fucking on right up to the heroin addiction. That shit erases your humanity, after that plunge, he was no longer able to be held accountable.
Mother fucker is weak for turning to booze in the first place though. No doubt there.
I think there are two people in this world with regard to hardship and "depressive" states like, you, him and I have been through. Some wallow in their self pity while clawing relentlessly to escape out of that pit.
The others, they seek any means to distract them from their sadness, these are the people that become addicts.
I know that when I'm legitimately upset about a big thing in my life, I'm inconsolable, I shut down all pity offers and bathe in the affliction. I should be feeling this way, life is nothing without the lows regardless how hard we fight to keep afloat. Those that try to distract from the pain are not introspective and lack fortitude.
Also proud of you for pulling out of the slump.
It's sad that you didn't feel like the Craig's journey was nothing more than a burden to society, but it's good that you managed not to hit the drink! I can't relate to either you or the Craig in that I'm not a guy who's been through being cheated on and lost my job, but I have experienced hopelessness, and I know others whose lives contain misery at one point or another.
I like the point that you make about the fact that in the end, it's our own life we live, so we should live it for ourselves and not for attention or praise. But I disagree with your opinion that we as a society worship the weak and hate those are strong. Yes there will be those who jump on the bandwagon and fake enthusiasm to look good for a camera or to enhance their own self esteem, but that's not everyone!
It's a good thing some people are strong, because some people do need genuine help, and that doesn't make them worth less than those who don't. I think Craig is now taking responsibility for what he did in previous years, by reforming, and bringing attention to those who are still on the streets and need that help. He's not an asshole.
This article is a pure reflection of right wing values and nothing more. "I was stronger than Craig (by not taking drugs), therefore i'm better than him, and therefore i deserve to fuck pussy and have money." You didn't take drugs because maybe you had a better upbringing that made you become more cautious; maybe genetically you are less of a risk taker or less prone to addictions; maybe you are truly more intelligent than him because you have better genes, or had a better upbringing. As far as i'm concerned the only difference between you and Craig is that you didn't start taking drugs. If you were addicted to drugs you would have acted the same way as he did. So, bravo! good for you! but that doesn't mean that Craig deserved his misery and that doesn't mean that people like him shouldn't be helped or be left to die on the street like you would have liked. It's really easy to judge other people and to patronize them. What about kindness people?
Maybe its a good thing that society cares more about the weak and less about the strong. Look at how the world was in different times when all that counted was who was the strongest: dictatorships, wars, misogyny, exploitation of weak people, slavery; these were the characteristics of primitive societys. Thank god for how society changed!!