Attention all anger-phasers, this post is for you. This post is here to remove the self pity associated with your role in society. Do not resist this post. Resistance is futile. Massive wall of text incoming, grab some caffeine and let's begin.
Ok, repeat after me: Humans are not attracted to losers. Humans will never be attracted to losers. Repeat until firmly lodged in skull.
Both men and women will never be attracted to sexual market failures. No matter how many #movements are created to do it. No matter how many "men go their own way". Women will never be attracted to your Betatude. You should accept this without judgement or anger or resentment.
AngryBeta: But why shouldn’t you get angry about this?!?!?! Men have so much more work they have to do! I have to become the top 20% to even get noticed and even then I have to compete with every other Chad Thundercock out there trying to poach my girl. All women have to do is put on a push up bra, short skirt and some pumps and every dude is drooling over her, heaping on truckloads of validation like its going out of style.
SWTDO: Easy, now. Eaaaaasyyyy. Settle down there little buddy. Daddys got ya now, daddys got ya. Its aaallllllllll right. Its all right.
AB: resisting GET OFF ME! Get off me. Oh...ok, well… fine… wwwwaaaahhhhhhhhhh AB cries
S: Let it out buddy. I’m right here.
AB: Sobbing
S: Ok. Now you’re ready. Listen, Women don’t have it any easier than guys. Your world is not inherently unfair. Long ago there was a time, when men did not bitch about having to be men. Men THRIVED in the struggle to be a dominant man. They embraced the battle with their own calls to be weak and lazy. They loved it. They laughed while doing it.
Now we live in a world of convenience and convincing lies. Dont want to remember to bring your own water with you? Spend hundreds on convenient bottled drinks. Dont want to take the time to cook your meals? Buy microwaveable instant mac and cheese. Dont want to take the time to self improve? Dont worry, we live in a society of yes men, they’ll pretend like you’re awesome already. But one thing, one final thing can never be negotiated. One thing can never be socio-politically goaded out of a human. And that is ATTRACTION.
No amount of shaming and internet brigades is going to make me pop a boner for a fatty. The part of my brain that controls my boner-level doesnt understand or care about social justice movements. That part of my brain doesnt even understand language. It is my autonomic nervous system, meaning my ego or thought stream that I identify with does not control it. It works on its own.
Similarly no amount of Male rights movements (as justified as they may be) will make women get wet for betas.
This is a core part of the truth that we want to accept here at the redpill. That you cannot force someone to like or be attracted to you.
So when a beta learns about this reality, and awakens to the truth that there is no disney princess out there waiting for him to just claim her, he gets angry. He pouts. He cries. He says woe is fucking me. Life is so goddamn hard that I have to compete with other men to gain sex and female attention. Then he spends his time alternating between denial, trying to say “Oh those redpill guys dont know it all.... I’ll meet my princess one day and she’ll just love me for me.” and some needy, sick form of bargaining where he thinks “If I can just never flinch and walk tall with my head up and go to the gym 6 days a week and force myself to pretend I’m an alpha for long enough, then my disney princess will love me for me and I’ll finally stop having to try. I’ll finally get to be the lazy piece of shit I always wanted to be.” But both of these strategies subtly avoid the simple truth of value as a men.
If you’re currently a beta you can not be a lazy fuck and have success with women. It will require some amount of effort to become alpha. If you are currently an alpha you will have to put in some effort to resist laziness and continue to be alpha. You will be tested, and you will have to struggle but you dont have to suffer. The beta who says woe is me is choosing to suffer. He is resisting the truth, and I’m here to tell you the truth isnt even that bad. So what you gotta work a little harder to get sex than women? Big fucking deal, you are born with more physical and mental power than women. It only makes sense that you would have more expected of you. And as for the misandrists and SJW’s out there fucking shit up because your male and/or white. Fuck em. They are a small crazed minority. Who fucking cares. Go about your life. You dont have to be Sir StoicsAlot and never flinch or show weakness. You dont have to be some cartoonish version of the perfect redpill man. You just have to put in some effort to improve and sustain your value. And honestly you can enjoy this process. You can enjoy the fact that life isnt easy for men bc the universe saw fit to make us the stronger sex.
“I ask not for a lighter burden but for broader shoulders”
Life isnt so bad as a guy. It can be a pretty fucking awesome experience.
And lastly lets remember to keep it playful here. To those who take issue with the tone of this piece, I say chill out buddy. Don’t get too serious with your strategic maneuvering through life. Laugh a bit, you have a pretty cool experience ahead of you as a man if youre up for it. People will look up to you, they will remember you were the man that showed them how to be one themself. Yes you will have some bratty women who dont appreciate your work but thats just part of the game. And yes there will be some crazies who try to make you feel bad for being a man. They dont matter. Create your reality. If you think shit is just gravy then your life will be gravy. If you think you have some impossible Sisyphean task of a life, then you will suffer needlessly. Keep trucking, stay strong, and stay happy.
Peace,
SWTDO
TL;DR: Life as a man in the west isn't as bad as you may think. The universe saw fit to make you strong so that you could handle its challenges and the infantile shit tests and tantrums of women/society at large. Sure there is some injustice towards dudes but there is no reason that should stop you from developing into the badass man that you want to be or more importantly enjoying the process of getting there. Embrace your challenge, embrace your dharma as a man.
Edit: Changed a word. Thanks for popping my gold cherry homie.
This was the hardest truth I had to realize about myself. I dated someone who was out of my league and once we broke up I found it impossible to date that caliber of woman again. I couldn't understand why. I got lazy, fat, and comfortable with what I had become. I was in denial about why I couldn't date above me again. Someone on this sub said "Look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself if you were a woman would you want to fuck you? If you can't honestly say yes, then you need to work on yourself until you can say yes." That hit me so hard I never forgot it.
If you mean like that bit out of Silence Of The Lambs, I do that eryday.
don't tuck it under like that, it's fucking creepy dude
"would you fuck me? I'd fuck me"
Goodbye Horses is now and will forever be that creepy Silence of Lambs song.
"Would you fuck me?
I'd fuck me.
I'd fuck me hard."
That's my morning mirror ritual.
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"God dammit! I'm fucking bored! And boredom is the first step on the road to relapse."
Gotta stay busy. It's essential for every part of life. Not just a rule for recovering drug addicts but addicts recovering from a harmful, but popular mindset.
Yup, this. The anger phase is real. Most people tell pretty lies but act as if love is transactional, selfishness is honorable, and only looks and social status have value.
I was exactly where I wanted to be 10 years ago, and was derailed by being blue-pill in some long relationships where I thought it was OK to stop being the 3/4-time monk mode man that got me there. Slacking off only attracts other slackers. I'll get it together again, because it's what I want.
Same story here man. One of the biggest motivators for me working out is because I remember how sexy one of the girls I have been with was, and she was very much out of my league. Never since have I had even close to a chance with a girl like that. I am embarrassed it took me so long to be critical of myself and realise I need to improve.
I just have to think, if a girl like that fucked me when I was chubby and didn't take care of myself well, imagine what I will be able to do when I'm properly fit? I am now working towards a life where I can get girls like that without even thinking.
Fuck that pretty boy shit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgPRfkvR5KA
Damn that video was awesome
Man, almost everything those guys post is solid RP gold.
I look at myself in the mirror and honestly I would fuck me hard if I was a woman.
But women still dont like me. Maybe I think too highly of myself
Try a photograph instead of your mirror. I find myself attractive in the mirror but absolutely repulsive in pictures. I'm not even sure which one is a more accurate representation of reality but there is definitely a distortion
Same. I find myself repulsive in pictures, and I can see all the asymmetry in my face, but somehow I can't see the asymmetry when I look at the mirror. I think it's true when they say your brain distorts how you perceive things.
But the thing is, many people have told me I am handsome. From men, i've heard it from all ages. But from women, I only heard it from older women.
I'm gonna go ahead and say girls dont find me attractive probably because im so skinny and short.
Those older women are feeding you fluff, boy. Lift if you're skinny, own the room with your body language if you're short. Or move to a country with more short people =/
Photos are usually a greater distortion depending on what kind of lens was used. Photos and mirrors are both flat images of a 3 dimensional object, but with a mirror just slightly turning your head is enough information for your brain to fill in the blanks on what it's supposed to look like.
Being photogenic is less to do with how attractive you are and more with how the angles of your face translate to a photo.
The photograph, due to lighting, different lenses, and being a 2D image are less accurate.
You probably just don't get what women find attractive.
He probably needs to stop wearing that shirt with his username on it.
How can you tell they don't like you?
"I ask not for a lighter burden, but for broader shoulders.
I ask not for an easier path, but for stronger feet.
I ask not for weaker enemies, but a stronger me.
Let life do with us what it wants, but let us be strong enough to handle it."
Do not wish for an easy life. Wish for the strength to endure it.
I wish to preach, not the doctrine of ignoble ease, but the doctrine of the strenuous life, the life of toil and effort, of labor and strife; to preach that highest form of success which comes, not to the man who desires mere easy peace, but to the man who does not shrink from danger, from hardship, or from bitter toil, and who out of these wins the splendid ultimate triumph.
-- roosevelt --
I used to have this quote above my bed when I was an athlete. It gives me chills, just fucking inspiring.
He is the intellectuals version of Arnold...
I guess some people still remember how tough some of the older politicians were... cattle rancher, dog the bounty hunter etc...
what does dog have to do with your comment? he is neither a politician nor someone whose commentary on politics is relevant...
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Les Brown ? that guy helped me grow a second pair of balls.
MRAs aren't bargaining to have women be attracted to betas. They're trying to get it taken seriously that men get shot in the head and denied basic rights and stuff.
yea and I support that effort to make things more just for men, somebodies gotta fight the good fight. As I said in my post MGTOW are justified but still are giving up on women or more acurately on themselves because becoming alpha is too hard... And the emotion behind and surrounding that decision is weak as fuck and will literally eat your soul and make your life suck. Mark Manson has an article about how your life is defined by the suffering you choose to embrace and happiness is a byproduct of being at peace with your struggle. I feel there are many in our communities MRA, TRP or MGTOW who are not at peace with the struggle before us as men in the west and it ultimately diminishes their chance for happiness. If instead they came to acceptance and flowed with reality even while trying to change it then they could be happier. Im not saying that MRAs are just trying to get women attracted through bitching about it. MRAs have their place and I consider myself somewhat of one but I choose not to get fired up over the injustices caused against men and just live my fucking life happily instead.
My only issues with the MRA movement is the copying of feminism, and the rest of modern activism, where men have to be victims to get rights.
I'm not a victim and never will adopt that additude, its a loser attitude.
If you have your kids taken from you or are evicted from the home you paid for because of a false accusation then you are a victim.
I don't understand how "being a victim" could be an attitude. Or what that is supposed to mean.
Well sometimes they are victims.
Of poor choices.
That is the difference in perspective required to survive and it always has been. Depend on no one but yourself.
I'd say it's more accurate to say that MGTOWs, after assessing both rewards and effort needed to get those, have decided it's just not worth to spend that much energy in order to compete the SMV's rat race.
I'm not a MGTOW, I just thought it was important to highlight that - it's not fair to say that MGTOWs do what they do because the opposite "is too hard".
MGTOW is not giving up. I looked at the price of pussy and saw that it is not worth the asking price. I can bang a hooker für 20€ and get what I want (my dick wet). Way better than going to a nightclub, wooing girls and trying to impress them, just to get my dick wet. These hoes ain't loyal. Buy a dog if you want a loyal partner. Why spent my time and money on women if I can spent it with things I enjoy? I'd rather be alone and bang a hooker every now and then instead of having a nagging bitch in my life that drains all my energy and resources. There is no struggle for me. The only struggle with women in my life is whether a hooker is worth the money or not. Jacking off is free of charge.
Can you link that article please?
Yeah, because you aren't the one terrified of violence, being falsely accused of rape, denied education, or any of that. They aren't either but they understand that the true struggles facing men aren't about being alpha and getting laid. They're about when reality just hits you with something that the most alpha badass in the world would be absolutely and utterly helpless to do anything about. They're fighting for those guys, not the ones like TRP who still have a chance.
So? Regardless of the validity of their concerns, their approach is futile. Appealing to the powers that be only works if you have something they want, and that is usually either money, power, or pussy.
And if MRA's had the first two, they'd not need to ask. They could just take.
I've always found something very off, or feminine, about the men's rights movement. It resembles the whining of women. The very thing that makes both men and women sneer.
Hell, the MR subreddit is full of people celebrating Eddie Izzard as a male role model because "he has the confidence to wear what he wants (i.e. women's dresses) despite what other people think". That is just fucked. I commented this, about how it is the opposite of men's rights (think trannies' rights) to the point of being EMASCULATING, and got downvoted to hell.
That is precisely why the MRA movement hasn't gained any traction. It worked for feminism precisely because the people they're appealing to, men, respond positively to victimhood. Men see a weak woman and they want to care and provide for her.
The reverse is simply not true. Male weakness is something women (and men) find repulsive. Playing the victim card as a man is self-defeating.
Men effect change using action and force. It has always been that way, and should things end up reverting back in favour of men I guarantee you it'll come about that way.
To be fair, TRP isn't that longterm of a solution. If we're successful than 108K men will be happy for the rest of their lives. If the MRM is successful, TRP won't even be necessary.
If men aren't taught how to effectively be men, then any advancements the MRM makes will be lost very quickly.
For me, this was the biggest, and most important revelation I learned from TRP over the course of the past 8 months. You have been told what is honorable, right, and good your entire life by people with an either conscious or subconscious agenda. They have used one of the more insidious tricks in the book, which is to use your desire and motivation for good against you, and to manipulate you into a place where you feel that any action that does not benefit their own interests is actual a moral misstep.
It's important to note that the concepts of being a Man of integrity, honesty and one who values protecting and providing for those who are weaker than you do not lose any of their truth or power when examined in light of these revelations. The lesson to be learned, and what is required to continue on the road to enlightenment is to know that these things are good in and of themselves, and are not required in any exterior context. These qualities bear little to no relation to your attractiveness or desirability to a woman, but that's entirely besides the point. You do them because it is the right thing to do.
For me, TRP taught me that the two concepts are entirely orthogonal. I will continue to strive to be an example to those around me, but not because I desire their approval or a few hours of carnal pleasure.
I will continue to be honest, kind, and at the same time be dismissive and callous to women that I approach in social situations. Believe me, I would much prefer a world in which I did not have to do this, but ignoring empirical reality is the first step to failure.
Remember this always. Atticus Finch was a SINGLE FATHER.
I'm gonna need you to expand on the Atticus Finch bit and how that ties in, if you will. Everything else I'm nodding to, good comment.
You're right - it could probably use some clarification.
My point was that Atticus Finch represents nearly everything that a Man should strive to be. He has honor, dignity, intelligence, compassion and courage. Despite the fact that he is to be admired and an example to us all, absolutely none of this is in any way relevant to his success with women.
I'm aware that it is a work of fiction, but do the thought experiment in your own. In the blue pill ideal world, he would be Hugh Hefner. Of course, we all instinctively know, whether we choose to admit it or not, that this goes counter to everything we see in reality and against our instincts.
The point is that you should strive to be Atticus Finch, but treat your sexual/romantic goals as completely on another axis.
Ah, gotcha. Exactly, its like they say if you want to be a nice guy thats fine but know that its not going to get you laid. And yet ironically if you choose to be a nice guy because its the right thing to do as you said, then youre checking all the boxes for confident alpha. But it has to be your idea of the good. Your idea of nice. Otherwise you are trying to be a good boy so you get sex as a reward. So then morality to the extent that it is self generated actually does bring you closer to poon, because it brings you closer to yourself. More solidified in your independent identity and less reliant of guidance from others. Aka confident Chad Thundercock with a PHD in philosophy. And ironically trying to be alpha by going to the gym actually brings you farther from confidence to the extent that you are doing it for others... I think i need to take a seat now...
I don't even go that far.
Just remember, everyones advice has no stake in the outcome of your life. Remember that when they are giving it. It's like listening to CNN for your stock picks.
Don't let the pussy you don't own, end up owning you.
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Women like and desire you for who they perceive you to be. That works the other way around, if you are a thirsty Bob Betacock, it acts as repellant to them.
Don't be Bob Betacock.
The most unattractive man in any room is the man who is perceived as being the most thirsty.
Excellent, excellent post.
This. And foolishly, as well.
The actual truth is that an endless task is a good thing, as it gives purpose. "One must", Camus concludes, "imagine Sisyphus happy." (From, The Myth of Sisyphus and Other Legends )
I think that this actually applies to trp generally - the quest for excellence, as reflected in the struggle to be Alpha, gives purpose, meaning and structure to life.
You can sit on your ass, watching TV and eating convenience food as the OP described. Not really a satisfying life. Or you can get with the program and embrace the endless struggle in the best tradition of the Stoics. Way more fun.
Precisely what I mean. I'm glad we got another philosopher in the house.
loved your reference to Camus, Im completely agree with you.
The key difference being even your typical fat girl can still get laid, have kids, and a stable relationship.
Let's not kid ourselves here.
Yeah. And
There is an unfortunately high number of guys who will. Fatty may not get her prince, but she will still get her share of dicks in her. The problem is that fatties still have pussies (I've checked) and that is still enough to get them sex... maybe even from a thirsty alpha or greater beta on occasion.
Seriously. Some guys, alpha or not, will fuck anything and everything.
some guys have that as their kink.
Personally, I figure they can have at er, it only freaks me out when you get guys that sneak fried chicken for them after they get their stomach stapled or other enabling shit
I agree that you can't compare like with like, i.e. male/female landwhales. Anecdotally, I see the female landwhale get more attention then her male counterpart.
are we playing the victim olumpics? I'd rather not argue over who is second to last.
Fat loser men can also do this. I see plenty of fat/ugly men with not good jobs who are married with kids. Their wives aren't going to be attractive that's all.
Same with these fat women you speak of. You do realize there is a man to every woman who is in a relationship? It's a 1:1 ratio... The fat girl probably doesn't have a high SMV partner.
Here a female 3 can pull male 5-6 all day long. And conversely a m6 is limited to f3-4. Unless you have mad game. As a guy you better like fat single mom's cause that's all that's available.
We're not talking about pulling we're talking about relationships.
Sure a fatty can get alphas to fuck her but they're not gonna be her boyfriend.
Around here they are cause that's all the sex a guys going to get. Unless they go escorts. The dating sites are all fat chick's and women who never respond to their messages. So yeah fat chick's is it.
There may be some, but nowadays there are probably even more who will be forever alone. You're thinking of the past.
So who are these fat girls with? Cos it ain't alphas..
Getting pumped and dumped by alphas and greater betas, and maybe if they are lucky, long-term commitment from betas who can't do any better.
Exactly. This notion that every woman on the planet is in a stable happy relationship and any man who is sub 20% can't find anyone doesn't even add up mathematically.
A woman will only love you for who you are if you are already an awesome person.
Fuck man, that's the simplest way of putting it.
"I'm unique! I'm a special snowflake." No, you're just like the other 80%
You writing the new pook series op
Thats some big shoes to fill
Your post was beautifully written. It made my day!
I hope you post more TRP material in here.
FUCKING THANK YOU.
This^ convinced me not to give up on this sub. All the negativity was making me think I'd be better off without but then gems like this crop up. Brilliant.
As I have said all you need to do is be the best version of yourself. If you think you can improve in some areas then go for it.
Wow. Head spinning. Thanks OP
Someone make this man the red pill president. Fantastic fucking post dude.
Knowing that you don't get to decide others' expectations of you - that you only choose whether to meet those expectations, is the difference between being a child and a man.
"Just Be Yourself"
...is the root cause of this.
It's Individuality as defined by modernity.
I have been trying to get folks here to wake up to this on several posts...
Nietzsche had two simple words:
Drive
Desire
.
Your Drive is your Will to have Power in the social hierarchy.
Your Desire is simply the satisfaction of a physical thing. (like sex)
The Beta turns all his Drives into Desires.
...he makes no attempt to understand the hierarchy (which women are VERY aware of) and just wants his Desires met.
Desires are never satisfied if you have no Power and you can't get Power if you stay locked in the concept of your Individuality.
The hierarchy (and your manipulation of it) is MORE important than your sense of self. Nietzsche goes on to point out how there is no static self, but actually competing drives. But if you frustrate drives they get diverted and can get pointed towards desires which are easier to fill.
Give the Beta candy and he shuts up.
As Elliot Hulse puts it, aim to be the strongest version of yourself.
Outstanding post and something every aspiring man needs to fully internalise!
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Definitely. It used to hit real hard when I saw posts from women (and some men) making fun of shorter men. But then, when you look at the source of the madness, you realize how comical it really is. And you can't help but laugh. I just dgaf anymore.
Title made my morning, thank you.
That's why I think the 5 Love Languages is bullshit pop psychology. No amount of "gifts" or "service" or "words of affirmation" will make her wet for you.
I agree that love languages aren't necessarily going to make her sexually attracted to you but in the long term especially in LTRs, it is a great tool to speak your woman's language.
The book makes it clear what she values and what I value. I think it is a great book.
Shits you're one of my heroes....
Got me a little teary eyed.
sounds close to the bluepill warcry.
Not going to lie. I retire from the military this fall, theres a part of me that wants a 3 month sabbatical of being a downright lazy bum....
If it wern't for that mortgage anyways,
I get you. But wanting and giving in are different. Our western culture has an obsession over thought control and the value of words. Only actions matter.
My advice? Don't give in. Relax, sure, you're not serving anymore, but don't stop hitting the gym. Don't pig out on garbage food.
When I have food cravings, I just think about diarrhea. When I think about skipping gym, I think about sex with obese people. Whether I am fat or she is fat, it's all disgusting.
Besides, you got that mortgage.
no one said not hitting the gym. If I had a sabbatical, you'd better believe my life would be gym, running the dogs until they had bigger quads than me, minecraft in the afternoons, and cooking like a chef in the evenings.
Or back to another circumnavigation of the globe. I always had fond memories of croatia, tokyo, phuket, dubai, Oman, and panama.
I still have visiting the caves in oman on my bucketlist. Watch rambo III and you'll see what I mean
Then sounds like you aren't going to be making any mistakes. Good to hear.
I know when I say being a downright lazy bum I mean actually being god awful and so I never want to be that. But if you're max is 200% and being a bum is 100% (but relatively low compared to the norm) then that's that.
I'm 35. I've already made the big ones I'll make.
though you're making me start to think my bar is a little high. I mean, right now I'm trying to be the jaded cop waiting for retirement, and everytime I think I've checked out, someone in the office shows the true meaning of the word.
I guess as far as problems go, it's a good one to have, but I always have the idea that if I'm not the stupidest person in the room, chances are I'm in the wrong room.
Either way, I never did the gap year in between high school and college, now that I have the money, it would be a nice time to see about it
This post is badass, and everyone should read it. Respect.
Glad you find value in it. I do it for the people. I got a ton of love for this community for all that its done for me and my life and now I'm in a position to give back. More will be on the way...
This is very good stuff here especially for those of us only a few years into sucking that god damned pill down. Reminds me of the posts about how you have to be your own best friend. You do spend so much more time with yourself then you do with anyone else. You spend hundreds of thousands of hours with yourself over anyone else. You have to become your own best friend. Your own biggest fan. Cheer yourself on. Dark triad traits help with this form of narcissism.
♂
Is that a point? Thanks bud. I agree with you, you gotta love yourself. You gotta be happy just chilling with you, driving down the road blasting music you like, happy as can be. Healthy Narcissism is like a mental immune system that fights off all the self doubt and negative thoughts that come up.
Point granted.
TRP bot isn't working properly. You need to msg the mods and they will reward the point manually.
There is also the kind of beta who will rationalize it, claiming that "I'm not looking for some extraordinary hot woman, I'm looking for a nice girl".
Someone I knew threw that line to me. I asked him whether he fantasizes about "nice girls" whenever he browses for porn online. The amount of silence combined with the predicted "hmmm" confirmed it.
Still, I'm confident that he still prefers to lie to himself than do anything about it. How else can he feign victimhood?
What I got from this post is "If I were a girl, would I wanna have sex with me?"
Many MGTOW knows this, as the many MRM does. MGTOW just choses not to play the game anymore, MRM/A is not trying to achieve it either, as the good ones are just trying to get the laws in parity. The Red Pill comes in one form with many different side effects. We should still be on the same side even if we choose to deal with it differently
This is the best post I have seen on TRP. Amen
It's actually your limbic system (especially your amygdala). Your autonomic nervous system is more of an effector system in this case. It is the thing that physically increases/decreases penile blood flow and controls ejaculation, but it is told by your limbic system (among other things) that you are aroused, want to cum, etc.
Nitpicking aside, great post – this needed to be said because TRP has being going through a strong whining phase lately.
This post could have been a sack of shit and I still would have upvoted just for the title
Women are primarily attracted to actions. Define yourself by your actions. Make what you do who you are and there won't be any problems.
This is a good thread. I also want to add that women don't have it super easy. In fact attractive women put more effort into themselves than beta guys. I used to be the female equivalent of a nice guy when I was younger. Although I wasn't fat, I put almost no effort into clothing, hair, and makeup and didn't get any attention from guys my age. I had this woe is me victim mentality like "if only guys were less shallow and could see past that superficial stuff and like me for me". It was only after an obese friend started crushing on me hardcore that I realized I wasn't some special snowflake who was deeper and less superficial than everyone else. It was just an ego defense mechanism.
I started trying on my appearance and I actually gained some respect for the girls I had dismissed as superficial bimbos. Being attractive as a female takes effort. Makeup, hair, clothing, working out. Our status as an attractive female isn't just handed to us. I spend an hour on my hair and makeup every morning. The hilarious thing is most guys wouldn't even know because a decent amount of that effort is put into making myself look like a natural beauty. Look up natural makeup tutorials on YouTube and see how many steps and products girls use. I also have a 7 step skincare routine (I use an Asian beauty routine) which takes another hour out of my day because I have to wait after putting on certain products and I do it twice a day. I also work out regularly and count my calories and macros. Being attractive takes fucking effort unless you're really lucky genetically.
I hate when neckbeards assume women just have everything handed to them and whine about how we don't like them. These same guys want the fit, feminine well put together girly girl and think we just roll out of bed looking like that. I'm not going to put all this effort into myself and then go for some loser for his "great personality" or because he treats me well. Fuck that! I want to be sexually satisfied just like the neckbeard does. He could easily find some homely girl or fat girl to like him but he doesn't want that. It's the equivalent of when fat chicks whine about how tall, fit guys are shallow. OP is on point.
But you still had options. You stated that it wasn't until some fat guy wanted you that put decided to put in the effort cause you wanted better. And yet, at the end of your post, you tell the fat guy to go for that fat/ugly girl. It doesn't work like that for guys, especially fat guys. He most likely get absolutely nothing, where you had options but felt they were below you. See the difference? You could have easily not put in effort and gone for the fat guy, but thought he wasn't good enough, so upped your efforts to get with hot guys. Now that may take effort and a few hours to do your whole beauty regime and an hour or so at the gym. But that's probably it. You don't have to approach, fake an over abundance of confidence, make lots of money etc, to snag a hot guy. Guys have to do all of that and more just for a chance, where you are practically guaranteed someone if you wanted to take them home.
Except I wasn't fat or ugly. I had a bmi of 19-20 and a decent face. I just dressed very plainly and never wore makeup. That fat guy most certainly didn't want fat girls. When he complained about being single I pointed to some overweight girl in our extended social circle who had shown some interest in him and he admitted he wasn't attracted to her. This girl actually put some effort in herself in the way of hair and makeup but she was fat so it didn't really matter.
And no I never exclusively went for hot guys. I even mentioned in a recent thread I made on reddit that I don't feel good enough for hot guys. By hot I mean tall, athletic jocks. I know my league.
Also, most girls can't snag a hot guy. Hot guys don't usually commit to girls. If they do, they usually cheat no matter how hot the girl is. Yes i can probably sleep with a hot guy much more easily than you can sleep with a hot girl but it's also much less satisfying for me to do so. Women usually have to date down in looks for faithful commitment and financial stability but we are more sexually fickle than men so we often end up sexually unsatisfied. We usually have to be top tier in looks to get a guy who sexually satisfies us to commit to us and a lot of looks is out of our control or very expensive to attain. Men are sexually satisfied much more easily.
I put in a ton of effort into myself so that I can be attractive to the opposite sex. It's just a different kind of effort. You don't see what goes behind the scenes. I also put effort into my career as well so it's not like I don't do anything. Looking good while working on a career takes a lot of time and effort. I guarantee you I put more effort into myself than at least half the people on this sub. Remember that this is reddit. About half the members are obese.
You have a point that this is reddit, but regardless, you still have the more options than almost any guy. Besides, you're talking about relationships and commitment, basically proved AFBB as well. Most guys don't give a shit about your career, so you are doing that for yourself, which I commend as its smart. But most people have jobs and careers as well, only men are judged way more harshy on our careers and the amount of money we make.
If all I had to do to be approached/get like 10 emails from OLD a day like alot of women, was spend an hour or 2 on make up/hair, then maybe a hour or so at the gym, I wouldn't be near as angry. But I have to do work on upping my confidence 20x it's normal level to approach, develop hobbies I could care less about but are cool and manly, work overtime to afford stylish clothes, etc on top of the gym. You're right, alot of your effort is behind the scenes. Which means if you fuck something up, most people are none the wiser, where as a guy getting rejected is public and sometimes humiliating.
Besides, at least you have access to who you're attracted to, even if it's for one night only. Alot of guys will never even have a chance to even have that, unless they hand over hundreds of dollars to a hooker. I personally find that repugnant, but that's just one man's view lol
"at least you have access to who you're attracted to, even if it's for one night only"
But not in the way that I want. I've never had a ONS and don't think I ever will because I know how much it would hurt to get pumped and dumped by a guy. I've had it happen to friends and it's not pretty. I have a friend who consistently gets pumped and dumped by guys, breaks down emotionally only to repeat the cycle again. I wish I were one of those girls who could do the whole ONS thing. Women with male brains are genetic lottery winners. I need to feel like a guy will commit to me before I sleep with him and because I'm insecure I and sexually picky, I rarely feel that. I've only had 2 boyfriends ever for this reason.
I'm not saying that men don't have to work really hard, but it just pisses me off when guys act like it's so easy being an attractive girl. I also am currently working 20 extra hours a week so I can afford clothing/makeup/hair stuff. If you think you have it bad in that area, just try being a girl. I spend $200 every 3 months to get my hair colored/cut, $150 every 3 months to get a Brazilian blowout, $150 every 3 months for salon quality shampoo, conditioner, hair products. I've spent $500 on makeup+skin care this year alone and $2000 on clothing (to be fair I revamped my wardrobe and am investing in quality, durable fabric plus shoes are expensive!). It's really hard to save but you gotta do what you gotta do. Another thing that sucks about being a girl is that your entire value will be based on your appearance. I love my career and I hate that I have to put in all this extra effort into something I hate just to be desirable to the opposite sex. I'd rather just work on my career because I find it more personally fulfilling.
I probably put more effort in than the average young girl but not by a lot. Most girls I know wear makeup every day and put a lot of effort into clothing and style. Most young guys do not. Most of my young guy friends spend a lot of time playing video games and drinking. Very few of them seem to be putting all this personal effort that you seem to claim all men do.
Also, women get approached more but we most of those guys are below us or want casual sex (you have to be above a girl to easily get casual sex from her). 90% of the guys that hit on me are like bums on the street.
Still... an option is an option. Regardless if it personally suits you, it's still available. You're proving red pill examples left and right, you just aren't riding the CC (or you could be lying, as you said... It's reddit). and your friend getting pumped and dumped is just another casualty of her solipsism. I smell alpha widow in the making.
100% agree women spend more, that's obvious. But now by spending that much, you are competing for the top top percentage of men, which is entirely your choice but not a very bright one. While most men apart from the genetic lottery winners have to work just as hard, but only for a chance to be with someone passable. The red pill sucks to swallow but it unfortunately needs to be done... But I am almost positive I will always will be secretly resentful of the fact I have to change my entire being, both inside and out, just to be with someone I find attractive.
And again, an option is an option. Doesn't matter if you want it or not, it's there. Most men have to work extremely hard just to get a option, let alone multiple ones.
And women deserve it, because most women are the same exact way. They will upgrade in a second, no matter what the guy has done for her. It's always business.
Men are the same way though. There are loyal people of both genders but most people put their own interests first. As they say: "all's fair in love and war". People on here love to say of dating strategy is amoral and I agree.
Most men are nothing like that. Your average man would be happy to commit to one quality woman if she treated him right. Men are easy to please and trained to sacrifice for others. Women are amoral and men adapt to be that way to try to compete in the sexual market place. Most do a horrible job at it.
You know what. Everybody is talking shit, but fuck that. Even TRP has its whiners. You do you, keep working out and progressing your career. I respect that a woman is willing to show herself on this sub to point out that both sexes have to do gender-specific shit behind the scenes
Lol at the butthurt neckbeard down votes. Keep feeling sorry for yourselves.
sniff thank you. :) I always tell everyone this, I ask for more challenges when I pray because I want to be stronger. I want to strength to make it through but I never want it to be easier, I want challenges because I know I will grow. I know there is a future, and I know life is worth fighting for.
so I've been having trouble with this recently, especially with that recent post about the guy who left marriage counseling, and this:
I understand the red pill is about self improvement and becoming what a proper man should be, with women becoming attracted as a by-product...but knowing now who/what they are(or rather what they're not), I have a hard time being attracted to them beyond anything physical and superficial.
like how can you have a LTR with someone, or rather be someone/thing that she considers worthy of such a thing, when she herself isn't worthy of such a thing?
ive pmed you my reply. to others looking for the answer go to the stickied post of the 5 stages of red pill and go to stage 4: depression. Read that and then stage 5 acceptance and you'll understand what to do.
yeah that didn't really help. I'm not depressed about it, but rather I just can't see how anyone can justify the effort given what they know. it's like working for a 200k ferrari to find out there is no ferrari for sale, rather just fieros, but still 200k.
I'm not mad about that(at least not anymore), but I still fail to see why anyone would take that deal. If you leave it you don't have to work anywhere near as hard, and you'd have time for a multitude of other things. and there's always renting.
because youre not self improving for the girl. Youre not becoming attractive and putting in the work to get the girl. Youre doing it to become a man youd respect. Youre doing it because you enjoy the struggle of self development and the small victories it gives. Game isnt about the girl. I'd go as far as saying TRP isnt about the girl. Its about you, its about being the you that you want to be because guess what? You have to live with you... I think you get what I'm saying now. The ferrari is a illusory distraction and the fiero is a side benefit. The man traveled to the end of the rainbow and saw that the pot of gold resided within. The purpose is to create/allow for a living process in yourself that makes you happy...
"The man traveled to the end of the rainbow and saw that the pot of gold resided within." Paulo Coelho, is that you? Great post OP!
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Well said... And can I get a hug? ThT part had me laughing my ass off...
yup. the first thing you need to think, is who you are the best you, or can it get better?
Never heard anyone honestly answer no
Good piece. I hate the acronym'd world of the internet, I have enough to memorize already being a computer guy.
I've always said, the worst thing you can do is "just be yourself". if that was working out, you wouldn't be in a situation where you're asking questions that people answer with "just be yourself".
"I ask not for a lighter burden, but for broader shoulders" damn I love quotes like these where can I find more of them
tl;dr: Stop being a little a bitch and accept reality. Its not that bad. I swear.
Commenting for future reference
Women love losers and unattractive men and they accept them beating them and cheating them , it's because they have what women want
Women would rather date a confident rapaist than a good looking millionare.
You are who you are , I been shit tested with my gyno , I simply tell them it's how God made me and they are free to leave, not a single woman had left.
A girl who loves you will accept you only if you accept yourself
This is not something I had actively ever thought about.
I've been improving myself because I simply want more. More power, more strength, more freedom, more women (naturally) and just in general more life.
I had always wondered what the best phrase to say to my buddies who complain about girls not loving them for who they are, this is a neutral verbal nuke I can drop on them to wake them up to the way the world works.
I liked what you said, but you were incorrect about the playing field being equal, and women having it as hard. Globally there are more men then women. In America there are more single men then women until you hit 40, then it flips. The younger you are, the more competitive it is for men. Dramatically so for you early-mid 20's. These are facts, that's how it is. Both Alphas and Betas are in denial about it, but betas seem to have a sense of it because they're hurt by it. This makes equality impossible and you won't be equally valued until later in life. The only advantage is that it gets easier and easier for you as time goes on.
Now I didn't say this to argue, I think the soul of what you said is correct and men need to accept this as something that just is, and get over it. Thanks for the insights.
True. Good points homie and glad I could help
While running the risk of sounding "blue pill" I still feel like "fat acceptance" and "Men's rights movements" are not so much about winning sexual ground but rather to, you know, point out that we shouldn't be assholes to each other.
De gustibus non est disputandum: In matters of taste, there is no argument.
I agree with everything you said, but that's not why I'm mad personally.
Fuck the blogs, posts, comments & the books. Where are the mentors at? If we agree that without /r/TheRedPill then some of us would have been lost forever, then we should agree that there is a NEED to depend on other people in a society.
I've found that in my life, I've pushed myself the hardest when I was pushed by someone else (the RedPill is no exception), and I was able to maintain that by myself, ONCE I internalized it. So to me personally, I feel like there is something sorely lacking and missing in the ascension from a boy to a man. Usually in most boys lives in the past, that would have been their fathers, showing them the path at a young age, and the young man continues on that path. But now... that doesn't exist anymore.
I want to find that therapist / guider to fucking kick my ass, to make sure I'm not being a pussy. I'm a little mad at my situation yes, but I'm much much more mad that I don't have any help in the matter. I don't have a person I can go to in real life that really holds me responsible, that can give me that push over some of the things I'm trying to surmount right now.
I see these type of posts and it's like... well yeah of course that makes total sense logically, but do I actually act as if it was true? It's one thing to accept something logically, it's a totally different thing to act on it. All I'm saying is, instead of reading what is true, it would be nice to have that person in your life (some people have wings or friends or mentors who push each other to greatness) that pushes you.
Lastly, I disagree with these types of posts for a simple basic reason:
Think about it like this. Take 2 men (whatever men you want, and this will apply 99% of the time). Both men see the male / female dynamic, and don't have success with women, and both go "well that isn't fair". Now, give one of the males complete success with women. That male is going to be the one that no longer complains that things aren't fair, because generally people don't complain about things not being fair, when the situation is in their favor.
So instead of "logically" trying to persuade someone that things aren't fair (which is a waste of time), all you need to do is get the person to a place of success, and that goes away completely. I am of the mind that success when it comes to a man is intrinsically tied to how ok you are with rejection, because if you don't care about rejection, that means you have the means to play the numbers game and do 100 approaches a day, which guarantees at least 1 girl who is receptive to you (which will snowball quickly if you go out enough). So the part of being a man (other than lifting / dressing nice / nice job, which is honestly all pretty easy) hinges on rejection... Mark Manson talks about this, The Rational Male talks about this.
So we should be trying to push men (including me) over the "butthurt about rejection" problem.
Now you could say... just fucking do it, but... 9 times out of 10, fears are not something that has a logical origin. This is why CBT and Rejection Therapy are popular. But we have to start being more logical about making sure men get over rejection, and that means we have to realize that a mere logical explanation about the dynamic isn't sufficient, the same way explaining to someone why they shouldn't be afraid of spiders isn't sufficient to get them over that fear. There should be a "therapist" we can go to (I sincerely believe some of the posters here should start branching out and be TheRedPill life coaches) that acts like the father / friend / wing / etc we never had (or still don't have) and is that 2nd voice that keeps telling us we're being a pussy, to go do those tough things. I'd love to work with someone who puts pressure on me in person to put myself into the tough situations.
tl;dr I'm mad about women not loving me, but not because I expect them to, but because for all the blog posts / comments / books out there, no one really cares about how the learning process works (especially for fears), what are the sticking points for men, and how to best help men to help themselves to get over them. Moreover we shouldn't be concerned about appealing to the logic of our brains, so any convincing you're trying to do is basically lost on me, unless I have abundance which basically shows itself as a byproduct of a certain fearlessness that needs a certain platform to be taught.
dude i care, and im sure there are other guys out there. If you read my post you would see that I care. Im not making money off this shit man... I do it to help struggling men develop into the badass dude they can be. but remember the world doesnt owe you shit.
I know the world doesn't owe me shit, but TheRedPill also doesn't owe me shit (and it still gives). If we understand we live in a society and we all have something to contribute, then I should be able to trade something valuable of mine for something valuable of yours. All I want is for people to understand that the main reason for the failure of most men on here, is a lack of abundance. Every fucking guy on here complaining, 9 times out of 10 isn't getting the women / sex he wants. So if we understand that getting over rejection is the key to having abundance (assuming you're lifting / dressing decently) then it's all about rejection. If we consider the teaching method and why something like CBT & rejection therapy are so damn useful (and the fact that you can't out reason a fear) then I don't understand why the dynamic doesn't shift to leading guys in a direction where they can get that, even if it means I have to give an arm and a leg for it. But everyone seems to have this attitude where we can make a million posts explaining sexual dynamic, but when it comes to actually going out in the world, it's just expected you just do it. But like how RedPill guided me through the dynamic of sexual strategy and the dynamic of male & females, it would be 2000% more helpful if I had someone to guide me through pushing through those sticking points of rejection. I think that is what the community is sorely lacking.
I can't help but notice nobody here talks about a woman's intellect or personality. They're pretty much ranked from fat/ugly to hot/skinny. Women are not prizes. I'm dating the hottest girl I could imagine right now, but we were friends for 2 years, we hooked up by being stupid together at a warehouse party smacked out on drugs, hell I wasn't even lifting at the time. I don't have a six pack, her job is better than mine. She owns property, I don't.
All these guys with man buns and hipster suits and massive lumbersexual beards aren't getting much. I constantly hear my female friends lament and reject guys who look too fit on tinder because they like lazing on a couch and watching Sopranos and that hypermasculine photo you're posting of you climbing a mountain, snowboarding the alps have turned off more women than you think.
I mean, don't take my word for it. You can always meet that special lady at the local crossfit get together. It's nice to have a bit of muscle but if you think that extra inch of bicep will be a game changer, in my opinion...it would be way more effective to go to a stand up comedy workshop and educate yourself with some TED talks and read some books.
And maybe stop looking for 'hot chicks' maybe you're missing out on being with a REAL woman who doesn't behave like a gold digging kardashian.
Also FYI I'm not the best looker at all... some of my mates are like wtf how are you with her. I really have to say from experience, just take it easy on that cold hard ass ambition mentality. I mean don't be an unemployed bum who smells funny but personality will take you way further. Find a girl who you share common interests with, there you go a natural conversation. Bingo.
I'm pretty sure that, with enough money, it won't be an issue.
"who cares if you have to work a little harder for sex?" raises hand I fucking do! And it's not just a little harder, that would be like you need a new haircut or something easily fixable and quick. No, I have to bust my ass to work out and do shit I despise for weeks or months for no reward. I have to work up insane amounts of courage to approach someone who will 99% of the time reject me. All this effort, plus getting beaten by assholes who won the genetic lottery is like a living hell. Now, I view sex with hot women/having a hot gf to be the epitome of my life. As such, I only even care about self improvement in so far as to help me obtain that. The validation that comes from having a hot chick wanting my dick is literally better than any other feeling I have ever had, and I barely got a taste. So yes, I'm resentful that my counterpart of the opposite sex gets more attention,validation, and sex for posting a duck face selfie with cleavage on some OLD site than I'll ever get without barely doing a thing. In short, am I doing the shit I need to (working out, lifting, trying to start conversations, etc)? Yes, but I hate every second of it, mostly because I need instant gratification or I find it pointless. If I could obtain my goals by sitting on the couch and smoking weed I would in a heartbeat.
The reward is a better looking, healthier you.
No its not. Most women would rather bang another chick than most of us. The chick has higher social status and that is attractive. Women are all about status. That's why 75,% of men are destined to fail, because you can't have high status unless most people are low status. Work out all you want, you can't beat another chick unless you are way up there to begin with.
I find this idea of becoming Alpha as completely bogus. All men who come here are betas trying to do their best Alpha impersonation. The circle jerk of guys who bag a few women and then wear their "I'm Alpha" crown is laughable. You are still some half decent, 5'9" putz with a decent body and a lot of unfulfilled desires that will haunt and impact your desires your whole life. You are born Alpha or not. You are not in some cocoon waiting to be born a beautiful butterfly. Accept your status, make due with what your role is, and leave the self-delusions about being the pinnacle of humanity to the wannabe princesses.
really? you are born at whatever level you are? okay dude.
Yes, you have limitations you are born with. You cannot become taller. Your IQ will not change. Your oversized nose will not get smaller without surgery. Your base personality will not change. You will not always be young and strong. As a result, you will always be trying to simulate an Alpha and can be deposed just like a beta. This idea that the most attractive women cannot find a more desirable man than you if you are in the top 20 percent is bogus.
https://imgflip.com/i/kltrp
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There are plenty of women who have diverse interests, they're just not attractive. The girl who's interested in philosophy, science, and politics probably isn't spending time on her hair and makeup or working out and is less attractive. You're not a special snowflake who is deeper than everyone else. You'd probably rather go for the hot girl than the homely smart girl. You're the equivalent of a woman who complains there are no nice goys out there. When really there are just no nice guys she finds attractive. Some obese loser would probably treat her like a princess but make her vagina dryer than a desert.
You're completely right, I should have included "Who I am attracted to". Even the ones who do have diverse interests, though, are much fewer and further between, as women are just not 'Doers'.
There are two ways to get women. be attractive or have money if ur not attractive. And there are some women who are attracted to guys only because he has money.
Edit. yea I forgot u can also be the PUA or self-confidence improved guy. but I was just talking about the lazy ways.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgPRfkvR5KA
Dumbass.
chillout with the name calling.
This post is kind of confusing. It almost feels like a strawman by taking several independent (though often correlating) behavior elements and combining them into one, then criticizing it.