Wanting Women to Love You for Who You Are is the Male Equivalent of Fat Acceptance

aWolfAmongRavens · 2015-04-23T12:22:30+00:00

This was the hardest truth I had to realize about myself. I dated someone who was out of my league and once we broke up I found it impossible to date that caliber of woman again. I couldn't understand why. I got lazy, fat, and comfortable with what I had become. I was in denial about why I couldn't date above me again. Someone on this sub said "Look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself if you were a woman would you want to fuck you? If you can't honestly say yes, then you need to work on yourself until you can say yes." That hit me so hard I never forgot it.

Elim101 · 2015-04-23T00:56:15+00:00

"I ask not for a lighter burden, but for broader shoulders.

I ask not for an easier path, but for stronger feet.

I ask not for weaker enemies, but a stronger me.

Let life do with us what it wants, but let us be strong enough to handle it."

ShitsWithTheDoorOpen · 2015-04-23T04:09:56+00:00

MRAs aren't bargaining to have women be attracted to betas. They're trying to get it taken seriously that men get shot in the head and denied basic rights and stuff.

divorcedbp · 2015-04-23T04:35:46+00:00

For me, this was the biggest, and most important revelation I learned from TRP over the course of the past 8 months. You have been told what is honorable, right, and good your entire life by people with an either conscious or subconscious agenda. They have used one of the more insidious tricks in the book, which is to use your desire and motivation for good against you, and to manipulate you into a place where you feel that any action that does not benefit their own interests is actual a moral misstep.

It's important to note that the concepts of being a Man of integrity, honesty and one who values protecting and providing for those who are weaker than you do not lose any of their truth or power when examined in light of these revelations. The lesson to be learned, and what is required to continue on the road to enlightenment is to know that these things are good in and of themselves, and are not required in any exterior context. These qualities bear little to no relation to your attractiveness or desirability to a woman, but that's entirely besides the point. You do them because it is the right thing to do.

For me, TRP taught me that the two concepts are entirely orthogonal. I will continue to strive to be an example to those around me, but not because I desire their approval or a few hours of carnal pleasure.

I will continue to be honest, kind, and at the same time be dismissive and callous to women that I approach in social situations. Believe me, I would much prefer a world in which I did not have to do this, but ignoring empirical reality is the first step to failure.

Remember this always. Atticus Finch was a SINGLE FATHER.

[deleted] · 2015-04-23T06:24:54+00:00

Don't let the pussy you don't own, end up owning you.

[deleted] · Thu Apr 23 4:12:05 2015 UTC

[permanently deleted]

newls · 2015-04-23T03:17:12+00:00

Women like and desire you for who they perceive you to be. That works the other way around, if you are a thirsty Bob Betacock, it acts as repellant to them.

Don't be Bob Betacock.

User-31f64a4e · 2015-04-23T16:58:09+00:00

Excellent, excellent post.

If you think you have some impossible Sisyphean task of a life, then you will suffer needlessly.

This. And foolishly, as well.

The actual truth is that an endless task is a good thing, as it gives purpose. "One must", Camus concludes, "imagine Sisyphus happy." (From, The Myth of Sisyphus and Other Legends )

I think that this actually applies to trp generally - the quest for excellence, as reflected in the struggle to be Alpha, gives purpose, meaning and structure to life.

You can sit on your ass, watching TV and eating convenience food as the OP described. Not really a satisfying life. Or you can get with the program and embrace the endless struggle in the best tradition of the Stoics. Way more fun.

Echelon64 · 2015-04-23T07:00:39+00:00

Wanting Women to Love You for Who You Are is the Male Equivalent of Fat Acceptance

The key difference being even your typical fat girl can still get laid, have kids, and a stable relationship.

Let's not kid ourselves here.

SILENTSAM69 · 2015-04-23T15:43:37+00:00

A woman will only love you for who you are if you are already an awesome person.

ReddishBlack · 2015-04-23T02:47:45+00:00

You writing the new pook series op

[deleted] · 2015-04-23T00:51:23+00:00

As I have said all you need to do is be the best version of yourself. If you think you can improve in some areas then go for it.

--Edog-- · 2015-04-23T05:57:30+00:00

Wow. Head spinning. Thanks OP

a_chill_bro · 2015-04-23T14:09:37+00:00

Someone make this man the red pill president. Fantastic fucking post dude.

[deleted] · 2015-04-23T17:21:40+00:00

Knowing that you don't get to decide others' expectations of you - that you only choose whether to meet those expectations, is the difference between being a child and a man.

NeoreactionSafe · 2015-04-24T00:41:14+00:00

"Just Be Yourself"

...is the root cause of this.

It's Individuality as defined by modernity.

I have been trying to get folks here to wake up to this on several posts...

Nietzsche had two simple words:

Drive
Desire

.

Your Drive is your Will to have Power in the social hierarchy.

Your Desire is simply the satisfaction of a physical thing. (like sex)

The Beta turns all his Drives into Desires.

...he makes no attempt to understand the hierarchy (which women are VERY aware of) and just wants his Desires met.

Desires are never satisfied if you have no Power and you can't get Power if you stay locked in the concept of your Individuality.

The hierarchy (and your manipulation of it) is MORE important than your sense of self. Nietzsche goes on to point out how there is no static self, but actually competing drives. But if you frustrate drives they get diverted and can get pointed towards desires which are easier to fill.

Give the Beta candy and he shuts up.

Transmigratory · 2015-04-23T01:04:42+00:00

As Elliot Hulse puts it, aim to be the strongest version of yourself.

theuppertwenty · 2015-04-23T07:05:49+00:00

Outstanding post and something every aspiring man needs to fully internalise!

[deleted] · 2015-04-23T08:45:55+00:00

[permanently deleted]

GregariousWolf · 2015-04-23T10:43:40+00:00

Title made my morning, thank you.

That's why I think the 5 Love Languages is bullshit pop psychology. No amount of "gifts" or "service" or "words of affirmation" will make her wet for you.

YoungHef · 2015-04-23T15:55:43+00:00

Shits you're one of my heroes....

Zeparic · 2015-04-23T16:04:33+00:00

Got me a little teary eyed.

CowardlyPetrov · 2015-04-23T04:28:12+00:00

I’ll finally get to be the lazy piece of shit I always wanted to be.

sounds close to the bluepill warcry.

_whistler · 2015-04-22T23:45:04+00:00

This post is badass, and everyone should read it. Respect.

potato_aimbot · 2015-04-23T07:21:06+00:00

There is also the kind of beta who will rationalize it, claiming that "I'm not looking for some extraordinary hot woman, I'm looking for a nice girl".

Someone I knew threw that line to me. I asked him whether he fantasizes about "nice girls" whenever he browses for porn online. The amount of silence combined with the predicted "hmmm" confirmed it.

Still, I'm confident that he still prefers to lie to himself than do anything about it. How else can he feign victimhood?

raghavj1991 · 2015-04-23T08:41:42+00:00

What I got from this post is "If I were a girl, would I wanna have sex with me?"

LancerKagato · 2015-04-23T12:31:57+00:00

Many MGTOW knows this, as the many MRM does. MGTOW just choses not to play the game anymore, MRM/A is not trying to achieve it either, as the good ones are just trying to get the laws in parity. The Red Pill comes in one form with many different side effects. We should still be on the same side even if we choose to deal with it differently

jgj09 · 2015-04-23T17:04:31+00:00

This is the best post I have seen on TRP. Amen

Mooshaq · 2015-04-23T19:24:52+00:00

It is my autonomic nervous system, meaning my ego or thought stream that I identify with does not control it.

It's actually your limbic system (especially your amygdala). Your autonomic nervous system is more of an effector system in this case. It is the thing that physically increases/decreases penile blood flow and controls ejaculation, but it is told by your limbic system (among other things) that you are aroused, want to cum, etc.

Nitpicking aside, great post – this needed to be said because TRP has being going through a strong whining phase lately.

30fretibanezguy · 2015-04-26T08:52:13+00:00

This post could have been a sack of shit and I still would have upvoted just for the title

SuperSpicyBasil · 2015-04-23T07:14:19+00:00

Women are primarily attracted to actions. Define yourself by your actions. Make what you do who you are and there won't be any problems.

allaboutthattreble1 · 2015-04-23T19:48:10+00:00

This is a good thread. I also want to add that women don't have it super easy. In fact attractive women put more effort into themselves than beta guys. I used to be the female equivalent of a nice guy when I was younger. Although I wasn't fat, I put almost no effort into clothing, hair, and makeup and didn't get any attention from guys my age. I had this woe is me victim mentality like "if only guys were less shallow and could see past that superficial stuff and like me for me". It was only after an obese friend started crushing on me hardcore that I realized I wasn't some special snowflake who was deeper and less superficial than everyone else. It was just an ego defense mechanism.

I started trying on my appearance and I actually gained some respect for the girls I had dismissed as superficial bimbos. Being attractive as a female takes effort. Makeup, hair, clothing, working out. Our status as an attractive female isn't just handed to us. I spend an hour on my hair and makeup every morning. The hilarious thing is most guys wouldn't even know because a decent amount of that effort is put into making myself look like a natural beauty. Look up natural makeup tutorials on YouTube and see how many steps and products girls use. I also have a 7 step skincare routine (I use an Asian beauty routine) which takes another hour out of my day because I have to wait after putting on certain products and I do it twice a day. I also work out regularly and count my calories and macros. Being attractive takes fucking effort unless you're really lucky genetically.

I hate when neckbeards assume women just have everything handed to them and whine about how we don't like them. These same guys want the fit, feminine well put together girly girl and think we just roll out of bed looking like that. I'm not going to put all this effort into myself and then go for some loser for his "great personality" or because he treats me well. Fuck that! I want to be sexually satisfied just like the neckbeard does. He could easily find some homely girl or fat girl to like him but he doesn't want that. It's the equivalent of when fat chicks whine about how tall, fit guys are shallow. OP is on point.

revofire · 2015-04-23T04:19:48+00:00

sniff thank you. :) I always tell everyone this, I ask for more challenges when I pray because I want to be stronger. I want to strength to make it through but I never want it to be easier, I want challenges because I know I will grow. I know there is a future, and I know life is worth fighting for.

Dravous · 2015-04-23T07:04:43+00:00

so I've been having trouble with this recently, especially with that recent post about the guy who left marriage counseling, and this:

the truth that there is no disney princess out there waiting for him to just claim her

I understand the red pill is about self improvement and becoming what a proper man should be, with women becoming attracted as a by-product...but knowing now who/what they are(or rather what they're not), I have a hard time being attracted to them beyond anything physical and superficial.

like how can you have a LTR with someone, or rather be someone/thing that she considers worthy of such a thing, when she herself isn't worthy of such a thing?

Trail_of_Jeers · 2015-04-23T11:52:15+00:00

Well said... And can I get a hug? ThT part had me laughing my ass off...

Dev_on · 2015-04-23T12:21:08+00:00

yup. the first thing you need to think, is who you are the best you, or can it get better?

Never heard anyone honestly answer no

[deleted] · 2015-04-23T14:27:24+00:00

Good piece. I hate the acronym'd world of the internet, I have enough to memorize already being a computer guy.

[deleted] · 2015-04-23T15:50:59+00:00

I've always said, the worst thing you can do is "just be yourself". if that was working out, you wouldn't be in a situation where you're asking questions that people answer with "just be yourself".

RampantD · 2015-04-23T18:02:20+00:00

"I ask not for a lighter burden, but for broader shoulders" damn I love quotes like these where can I find more of them

BlackHeart89 · 2015-04-23T18:21:01+00:00

tl;dr: Stop being a little a bitch and accept reality. Its not that bad. I swear.

CountOmar · 2015-04-23T18:48:41+00:00

Commenting for future reference

circlhat · 2015-04-23T21:44:42+00:00

Women love losers and unattractive men and they accept them beating them and cheating them , it's because they have what women want

Women would rather date a confident rapaist than a good looking millionare.

You are who you are , I been shit tested with my gyno , I simply tell them it's how God made me and they are free to leave, not a single woman had left.

A girl who loves you will accept you only if you accept yourself

cascadecombo · 2015-04-24T04:23:55+00:00

This is not something I had actively ever thought about.

I've been improving myself because I simply want more. More power, more strength, more freedom, more women (naturally) and just in general more life.

I had always wondered what the best phrase to say to my buddies who complain about girls not loving them for who they are, this is a neutral verbal nuke I can drop on them to wake them up to the way the world works.

CK_America · 2015-06-05T17:24:31+00:00

I liked what you said, but you were incorrect about the playing field being equal, and women having it as hard. Globally there are more men then women. In America there are more single men then women until you hit 40, then it flips. The younger you are, the more competitive it is for men. Dramatically so for you early-mid 20's. These are facts, that's how it is. Both Alphas and Betas are in denial about it, but betas seem to have a sense of it because they're hurt by it. This makes equality impossible and you won't be equally valued until later in life. The only advantage is that it gets easier and easier for you as time goes on.

Now I didn't say this to argue, I think the soul of what you said is correct and men need to accept this as something that just is, and get over it. Thanks for the insights.

foreverskepticalone · 2015-04-23T15:08:14+00:00

While running the risk of sounding "blue pill" I still feel like "fat acceptance" and "Men's rights movements" are not so much about winning sexual ground but rather to, you know, point out that we shouldn't be assholes to each other.

[deleted] · 2015-04-23T18:15:40+00:00

The part of my brain that controls my boner-level doesn't understand or care about social justice movements. That part of my brain doesn't even understand language.

De gustibus non est disputandum: In matters of taste, there is no argument.

throwaway-aa2 · 2015-04-24T12:31:34+00:00

I agree with everything you said, but that's not why I'm mad personally.

Fuck the blogs, posts, comments & the books. Where are the mentors at? If we agree that without /r/TheRedPill then some of us would have been lost forever, then we should agree that there is a NEED to depend on other people in a society.

I've found that in my life, I've pushed myself the hardest when I was pushed by someone else (the RedPill is no exception), and I was able to maintain that by myself, ONCE I internalized it. So to me personally, I feel like there is something sorely lacking and missing in the ascension from a boy to a man. Usually in most boys lives in the past, that would have been their fathers, showing them the path at a young age, and the young man continues on that path. But now... that doesn't exist anymore.

I want to find that therapist / guider to fucking kick my ass, to make sure I'm not being a pussy. I'm a little mad at my situation yes, but I'm much much more mad that I don't have any help in the matter. I don't have a person I can go to in real life that really holds me responsible, that can give me that push over some of the things I'm trying to surmount right now.

I see these type of posts and it's like... well yeah of course that makes total sense logically, but do I actually act as if it was true? It's one thing to accept something logically, it's a totally different thing to act on it. All I'm saying is, instead of reading what is true, it would be nice to have that person in your life (some people have wings or friends or mentors who push each other to greatness) that pushes you.

Lastly, I disagree with these types of posts for a simple basic reason:

Think about it like this. Take 2 men (whatever men you want, and this will apply 99% of the time). Both men see the male / female dynamic, and don't have success with women, and both go "well that isn't fair". Now, give one of the males complete success with women. That male is going to be the one that no longer complains that things aren't fair, because generally people don't complain about things not being fair, when the situation is in their favor.

So instead of "logically" trying to persuade someone that things aren't fair (which is a waste of time), all you need to do is get the person to a place of success, and that goes away completely. I am of the mind that success when it comes to a man is intrinsically tied to how ok you are with rejection, because if you don't care about rejection, that means you have the means to play the numbers game and do 100 approaches a day, which guarantees at least 1 girl who is receptive to you (which will snowball quickly if you go out enough). So the part of being a man (other than lifting / dressing nice / nice job, which is honestly all pretty easy) hinges on rejection... Mark Manson talks about this, The Rational Male talks about this.

So we should be trying to push men (including me) over the "butthurt about rejection" problem.

Now you could say... just fucking do it, but... 9 times out of 10, fears are not something that has a logical origin. This is why CBT and Rejection Therapy are popular. But we have to start being more logical about making sure men get over rejection, and that means we have to realize that a mere logical explanation about the dynamic isn't sufficient, the same way explaining to someone why they shouldn't be afraid of spiders isn't sufficient to get them over that fear. There should be a "therapist" we can go to (I sincerely believe some of the posters here should start branching out and be TheRedPill life coaches) that acts like the father / friend / wing / etc we never had (or still don't have) and is that 2nd voice that keeps telling us we're being a pussy, to go do those tough things. I'd love to work with someone who puts pressure on me in person to put myself into the tough situations.

tl;dr I'm mad about women not loving me, but not because I expect them to, but because for all the blog posts / comments / books out there, no one really cares about how the learning process works (especially for fears), what are the sticking points for men, and how to best help men to help themselves to get over them. Moreover we shouldn't be concerned about appealing to the logic of our brains, so any convincing you're trying to do is basically lost on me, unless I have abundance which basically shows itself as a byproduct of a certain fearlessness that needs a certain platform to be taught.

[deleted] · 2015-04-24T14:50:30+00:00

I can't help but notice nobody here talks about a woman's intellect or personality. They're pretty much ranked from fat/ugly to hot/skinny. Women are not prizes. I'm dating the hottest girl I could imagine right now, but we were friends for 2 years, we hooked up by being stupid together at a warehouse party smacked out on drugs, hell I wasn't even lifting at the time. I don't have a six pack, her job is better than mine. She owns property, I don't.

All these guys with man buns and hipster suits and massive lumbersexual beards aren't getting much. I constantly hear my female friends lament and reject guys who look too fit on tinder because they like lazing on a couch and watching Sopranos and that hypermasculine photo you're posting of you climbing a mountain, snowboarding the alps have turned off more women than you think.

I mean, don't take my word for it. You can always meet that special lady at the local crossfit get together. It's nice to have a bit of muscle but if you think that extra inch of bicep will be a game changer, in my opinion...it would be way more effective to go to a stand up comedy workshop and educate yourself with some TED talks and read some books.

And maybe stop looking for 'hot chicks' maybe you're missing out on being with a REAL woman who doesn't behave like a gold digging kardashian.

Also FYI I'm not the best looker at all... some of my mates are like wtf how are you with her. I really have to say from experience, just take it easy on that cold hard ass ambition mentality. I mean don't be an unemployed bum who smells funny but personality will take you way further. Find a girl who you share common interests with, there you go a natural conversation. Bingo.

wasthereadogwithyou · 2015-04-24T16:24:15+00:00

One thing can never be socio-politically goaded out of a human. And that is ATTRACTION.

I'm pretty sure that, with enough money, it won't be an issue.

BPremium · 2015-04-23T15:13:01+00:00

"who cares if you have to work a little harder for sex?" raises hand I fucking do! And it's not just a little harder, that would be like you need a new haircut or something easily fixable and quick. No, I have to bust my ass to work out and do shit I despise for weeks or months for no reward. I have to work up insane amounts of courage to approach someone who will 99% of the time reject me. All this effort, plus getting beaten by assholes who won the genetic lottery is like a living hell. Now, I view sex with hot women/having a hot gf to be the epitome of my life. As such, I only even care about self improvement in so far as to help me obtain that. The validation that comes from having a hot chick wanting my dick is literally better than any other feeling I have ever had, and I barely got a taste. So yes, I'm resentful that my counterpart of the opposite sex gets more attention,validation, and sex for posting a duck face selfie with cleavage on some OLD site than I'll ever get without barely doing a thing. In short, am I doing the shit I need to (working out, lifting, trying to start conversations, etc)? Yes, but I hate every second of it, mostly because I need instant gratification or I find it pointless. If I could obtain my goals by sitting on the couch and smoking weed I would in a heartbeat.

ShitsWithTheDoorOpen · 2015-04-23T09:24:58+00:00

I find this idea of becoming Alpha as completely bogus. All men who come here are betas trying to do their best Alpha impersonation. The circle jerk of guys who bag a few women and then wear their "I'm Alpha" crown is laughable. You are still some half decent, 5'9" putz with a decent body and a lot of unfulfilled desires that will haunt and impact your desires your whole life. You are born Alpha or not. You are not in some cocoon waiting to be born a beautiful butterfly. Accept your status, make due with what your role is, and leave the self-delusions about being the pinnacle of humanity to the wannabe princesses.

[deleted] · 2015-04-23T20:52:34+00:00

[permanently deleted]

bobsmitharmour · 2015-04-23T05:01:49+00:00

There are two ways to get women. be attractive or have money if ur not attractive. And there are some women who are attracted to guys only because he has money.

Edit. yea I forgot u can also be the PUA or self-confidence improved guy. but I was just talking about the lazy ways.

[deleted] · 2015-04-23T01:11:38+00:00

This post is kind of confusing. It almost feels like a strawman by taking several independent (though often correlating) behavior elements and combining them into one, then criticizing it.

Title	Wanting Women to Love You for Who You Are is the Male Equivalent of Fat Acceptance
Author	ShitsWithTheDoorOpen
Upvotes	1113
Comments	165
Date	22 April 2015 11:22 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	TheRedPill
Link	https://theredarchive.com/post/31752
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/33j8aw/wanting_women_to_love_you_for_who_you_are_is_the/