333,620 posts

I was asked to train a new female employee to do the promotion I got passed on.

1759 upvotes
by on /r/TheRedPill
21 May 2015 06:54 AM UTC

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I want to start this out by saying that the female coworker I trained wasn't coasting and she really wanted to learn how to do the job, but most importantly do it right. I had been working for this outfit for about 2 years, and every foreman I had worked with had giving me great reviews. A position opened up which was basically the same thing I had been doing, but instead of residential work, it would be more on the commercial side. This new title came with a substantial pay raise and I made it very clear to my bosses that I wanted the job. A week or so went by and they had me take written tests to see how well I knew everything incumbent to the job, I passed every single test without getting single answer wrong. This job was mine. I busted my ass. Then I get the word that they hired someone to fill the position. I was bummed out to say the least, but to make it worse it was someone with no prior experience and I had to train them on how to do the job. This person happened to be female and day one during training was getting paid almost twice as much as myself. I didn't take it lightly and requested a meeting with my superiors. They told me that it was because a quota for minorities had to be filled (even though the person who left and created the vacancy was a white male) and that I should just keep doing what I have been doing and it will all work out for me. I walked out of that office, thought about it for a minute, walked back in and quit. I got the job I was looking for at a competing company with in a week. Like I said I have nothing against the person who got the job, she was eager to learn and do it the right way, but that doesn't mean I had to take it sitting down.

You don't have to stand and take the bullshit that comes your way.

edit: I want to thank the people who gave me gold. I had no idea this submission was going to get this kind of attention.



Post Information
Title I was asked to train a new female employee to do the promotion I got passed on.
Author
Upvotes 1759
Comments 407
Date 21 May 2015 06:54 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/32807
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/36q8dv/i_was_asked_to_train_a_new_female_employee_to_do/
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Comments

930 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

What happened was you made yourself too valuable in the position you were in and they did not think you had the balls to quit.

They found out otherwise.

348 upvotesIllimitableMan4 years ago

Yep, law 46 violation - http://48laws-of-power.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/law-46.html

If you are a "perfect bartender" you will never become bar manager. They'll get someone who's bossy with shittier social skills to be the bar manager. Basically, be good, but not too good. Too good is barely better than too bad. People get jealous, and you will be passed up for promotion by superiors "because you're just so great on the bar earning half the wage you would as bar manager." Be "above average" but never "excellent." Sounds retarded I know, but this is human psychology we're talking about. People think "being the best" will get them all the rewards. Unless you're pioneering new technology, this is wrong.

98 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

OP's ultimate action of quitting was however enacting law 20:

Do Not Commit to Anyone

It is the fool who always rushes to take sides. Do not commit to any side or cause but yourself. By maintaining your independence, you become the master of others – playing people against one another, making them pursue you.

139 upvotesIllimitableMan4 years ago

Their flawed assumption was assuming his commitment to the job was unconditional and that his skills would not attract more lucrative offers should he be open to them. They lost a skilled employee and got an inexperienced one because of affirmative action. That company just became less profitable. I know if I was a shareholder in such a company; I wouldn't be happy seeing my investment behave in this way.

61 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

Yeah, that was just poor leadership through and through. People have this sense that employees are easily replaceable, and they are if you have no regard for quality, but good employees are hard to come by. In every leadership role I've been in, I have highly valued my star employees and tried to assist them in moving ahead. Hiring someone from outside ahead of a star employee and gambling on their loyalty is just moronic.

This of course applies to all relationships. Know your value, and if it's not being properly appreciated, say screw 'em and look for greener pastures.

37 upvotesgrewapair4 years ago

Their excuse is bullshit. They could have promoted him and found a woman for his old position.

upvotes [OP]50 years ago

[permanently deleted]

7 upvotesHeizenbrg4 years ago

Guess this is why I'm having a hard time finding a job. everyone hires internally, nobody hires virtual outsiders unless you prostitute yourself networking.
If positions are filled already why post the job? you're just wasting people's time.

3 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

Securing and retaining key talent should be just about job one. Without that you are going out of business. Plus it just makes your life much easier as a boss.

63 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

Honestly if I ever own a company or become upper management in one (perhaps unlikely given I'm not a black disabled lesbian) I would kill any whiff of "affirmative action" that came my way. If I was CEO then I would make sure that phrase couldn't even be uttered. It's such a ridiculous concept, it's like the manifestation of Tumblr in real life.

173 upvotesIllimitableMan4 years ago

Reverse affirmative action is even funnier. Asians need higher test scores than other ethnicities to get into college because they do so well across the board. You don't hear SJWs whining about that.

37 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

Holy shit you serious? Surprised I never heard of that before. That's some serious Harrison Burgeron shit.

15 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

AT point handicap compared to whites when applying to the top colleges. They are at a 400 point handicap

Asian highschool senior here. I just applied to colleges and this shit is pretty real. Not complaining for myself, i know my scores were above average but not great. This one Asian kid im friends with in physics class definitely got affected by this shit. hes so fucking smart he corrects our Russian physics professor. He got denied from his top choices. there was a white kid who applied to the same top choice and had lower GPA and scores but got in. Racial makeup quotas are a bitch.

3 upvotesRedRisingHood4 years ago

Asians never really complain yet they are shafted by american society.

The lesson is, don't be skilled or intelligent, be a whiny brat with a victim complex.

1 upvotesRedRisingHood4 years ago

Asians never really complain yet they are shafted by american society.

The lesson is, don't be skilled or intelligent, be a whiny brat with a victim complex.

7 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

[deleted]

7 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

That's a fair point, if you rely on government money and that money is subject to meeting diversity quotas it starts to make more sense, although I'm sure we can agree the government should not be encouraging this bullshit in the first place.

Luckily the business I'm working on right now does not need government money and if it ever takes off properly I'll stick to what I said above.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

[deleted]

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

I know man I was exaggerating for comic effect. I thought I made it pretty obvious I wasn't being completely serious. I still hate the whole concept of "affirmative action" and all "positive discrimination." I would judge people by how good they are at the job, not how diverse they make me look. If anything choosing a woman or a minority just as a token is even more sexist/racist than the discrimination it's meant to be countering. Imagine knowing you only got your job to be a token woman or black guy instead of because of your actual merit. That's patronising as fuck.

9 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

I disagree. If you do EXCEPTIONALLY WELL at GETTING ALONG WITH PEOPLE, you will move up regardless of how excellent you are at the "tasks" related to your job. People who get along with and influence other people have the rarest skill, and good management will always move them forward instead of others when the opp presents itself.

3 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

My first employee review I was apart of, my foreman said that I made the day easier because of how well I got a long with with everyone. I am just like anyone else, I want the day to go as well as it could be.

9 upvotesdennislang4 years ago

Only be the best if you own equity in what you're doing and your paycheck is a function of how much effort you put in.

1 upvotesIllimitableMan4 years ago

Tweeting this. It's excellent and I'm 100% with you on that.

7 upvotesFrameWalker4 years ago

You want to own the best. If you can own your work, being the best has huge payoffs. Top 10% get 90% of profits in many sectors.

7 upvotesIllimitableMan4 years ago

That's the difference between an employer and an employee. Or, being the best, but self-employed.

11 upvotesNikolaTeslaMGTOW4 years ago

This doesn't really apply

A position opened up which was basically the same thing I had been doing, but instead of residential work, it would be more on the commercial side.

It was the same job. But the law is still valid. There is also a detailed explanation of how corporations work, it has three parts, the losers, the clueless, and the sociopaths, and it fits TRP pretty well. Not sure if its true or not, but it seemed solid on my first pass. You will have to google for it though.

9 upvotesIllimitableMan4 years ago

the losers, the clueless, and the sociopaths, and it fits TRP pretty well. Not sure if its true or not, but it seemed solid on my first pass. You will have to google for it though.

Yeah the Gervais principle; it was posted here ages ago.

3 upvotesNikolaTeslaMGTOW4 years ago

I came across it somewhere non-manosphere related I'm pretty sure, but it makes a lot of sense so knowing it was posted here gives more weight, I should go look up that thread.

2 upvotesTheRedTrader4 years ago

Yh its ribbon farm and I don't think the blog is directly associated with the manosphere in anyway.

1 upvotesIllimitableMan4 years ago

It isn't associated with the manosphere as far as I know.

5 upvotesbalalasaurus4 years ago

Isn't this related to the Gervais principle somehow?

Edit - never mind. Saw your comment below.

3 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Principle

3 upvotesSuperSlavisWife4 years ago

Jon found this out the hard way. His old job was awful. He was stuck dealing with the more difficult coworkers and was even told by upper management to "get (manager) to do her job", despite being beneath her and that she could get him fired over "pressuring" her.

Once he left his old job was advertised as £7K more than he'd been on. The replacement quit shortly after the first few weeks. They then needed two people to replace him, both of them at the higher salary... They quit too. Apparently his old department is still degrading rapidly and they're trying to replace him with numbers.

He was literally the cement holding the whole place together and not only did they not compensate him for his extra time and work, they basically bullied him into leaving.

2 upvotesfoldpak1114 years ago

I agree with the tech part, but this also applies to special operations. I'm not one but I have a couple family members who are and they are textbook golden boys.

1 upvotesBlackHeart894 years ago

Its fine being the best among your peers. But never show your superiors that you're better than they are.

1 upvotesGainzdalfTheWhey4 years ago

damn i need to read this book

1 upvotesCMaximus4 years ago

Where are you living where bar managers make more money than bartenders? Maybe if you're only getting a couple of shifts a week, but a full-time bartender generally makes considerably more money especially in terms of how much work you're doing for that money.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

No bar manager makes more than his full time bartenders.

1 upvotesforgetful_storytellr4 years ago

I disagree. Be the best at your job, and THEN convince them that you will be the best at the next job, evidencing your track record of being-the-best-ness in the past.

I have done it this way this in at least two different business ladders in my young life so far (25).

As always, if they're giving you the shaft, walk away.

1 upvotesScreambloodyleprosy4 years ago

Truth. I have a new team leader at work and this guy is walking catastrophe! He's been fired from his last 3 places of work including one in 3 hours!

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

Exactly. People think that being all "gun-ho" and the best will get you that promotion but it's wrong. Companies just want you to show up for work and do the job. No more, no less. Like my mom always said "If they pay you minimum wage then give them minimum work". That has always worked out for me. I see a job as a depreciating aspect. If they hire me and don't give me steady raises to improve my life then my work ethic slowly declines and I eventually find a position else where.

0 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

yup bust my ass becoming the best, pioneering engineering and productions techniques, cleanest most professional art.

Nope better keep me on min wage till i told em to get fucked

-3 upvotespablothe4 years ago

Bar tenders actually end up being paid more than managers due to tips

2 upvotesRedPillScare4 years ago

This type of reply is complete gamma crap. You're picking apart the details of the specific example rather than comprehending the generalities it was supposed to illustrate.

The point being addressed in this thread is not a comparison of bartenders' vs bar managers' paychecks. It is the concept of being practically irreplaceable in your job.

1 upvotespablothe4 years ago

Yeah I get that. Just pointed out that the bartender example is specifically a poor one.

128 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

In retrospect that is definitely right. At the time, when i decided to move on it was more of a respect thing. I agree completely.

1 upvotesMightyTaint4 years ago

[deleted]

1 upvotesMightyTaint4 years ago

[deleted]

1 upvotesMightyTaint4 years ago

IDK, it's probably true for the most part, but some things can become extremely specialized. When only a handful of people in the world are experts on a certain topic, they start becoming irreplaceable.

0 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

[deleted]

5 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

They were surprised when I walked back in and quit. They did ask me why and I said something to the effect of this wasn't the best opportunity for myself and it was time to move on. I think a big reason on why they didn't just offer me more money to stay was the same reason they didn't give me the job. It became a "who knows best" kind of mentality. They didn't want me deciding the terms as much as I didn't want to accept theirs.

47 upvotesgweneverexoxo4 years ago

badass.

but becareful of economical and social positioning. they are our way to the top.

next time something like this happens, call a meeting like you did, but instead of quiting on the spot, give them an ultimatum, promote of ill quit and send up your resignation papers. this way you burn less bridges.

another way to go about this is to stay in your position, but line up another job and then quit. this way you dont have much risk quiting.

70 upvotesNikolaTeslaMGTOW4 years ago

I don't really know if ultimatums work. They already thought you were a bitch and would take it, which is why they didn't promote you. And even if it was affirmative action why wouldn't he get promoted and she get his job, or everyone gets promoted and she starts at the bottom since she has no experience which would make the most sense.

It could also be nepotism.

Anyway I think the problem is they didn't respect him and he should think about why that might be so in the future he will have less risk of quitting and people won't step on him. In the 50 laws of power I think they talk about how ultimatums are a sign of having no power because if you had power you wouldn't need to make an ultimatum (most of the time).

21 upvotespuppetmstr4 years ago

It is the only powerplay you can do without actual power.

10 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

In this case Op had no power, nuclear option was the only thing on the table. Prior warning should have been put on the table, even as far as telling them before the selection was made- "If I dont get this I am leaving"

7 upvotesPalpetinus4 years ago

For OP, that was out of question. OP was pretty sure he'll get it and was overconfident.

4 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

It happened in my office. A guy in the same position give them an ultimatum--"give me some writing responsibilities or I'm out" and lo and behold he's running a smaller project now as a test run. Unfortunately they have this terrible habit of test running people without the pay....

5 upvotes1independentmale4 years ago

I don't really know if ultimatums work.

I consider an ultimatum both a threat and an attempt to manipulate and control me. As a result I have a policy of calling that shit every time. "If you don't x, I'm going to y." Do it then, you pussy. You may have been able to persuade me using reasonable negotiation tactics but now I'm going to do everything in my power to ensure x doesn't happen.

If you let someone force your hand with an ultimatum, he will do it again and again.

4 upvotesRathadin4 years ago

Yeah, I'm not a fan of ultimatums either. We can discuss things rationally, but if you come to me saying what you will and won't do, I'll be telling you that you won't be collecting a paycheck and that you will be getting a pink slip.

-1 upvotesgetomc4 years ago

That's bullshit. Everyone has reasonable boundries. You get offended because someone values themselves enough not to put up whatever shit of yours that you think don't stink? There's a reason you don't run shit.

0 upvotesGuidoBandito4 years ago

I agree with the ultimatum. Recently had a coworker give an ultimatum for a raise. Management didn't wait to see if he would stand up to it. He was fired not less than an hour after management informing HR. And his position remains open. Obviously, it's not that important to replace him either.

To me, ultimatums are like "behave or I'll turn this car around." You're not liking what is happening, feel powerless to really affect change, but want to feel like you do knowing full well you will lose either way.

If you don't like the situation you are in and know that it won't change, change where you are at without useless idle threats. Be a man, and in the case of moving on with your life, alpha.

2 upvotesRathadin4 years ago

Uh, if his position is still open, in this job market, its because they can't find anyone to replace him.

Check Monster / LinkedIn / Beyond, whatever. I bet you they have adverts up for his position.

2 upvotesGuidoBandito4 years ago

After 3 months and the CIO announcing today that they aren't filling the position, I'm leaning towards no. I live in an area that can easily find an SAP developer. We even have them contracting from across the country.

And evidently, the point was lost on whether they were going to hire someone or not as opposed to using beta tactics and threatening your employer with ultimatums. Because as you say, in this job market, they can find someone else. No matter who we are talking about.

-8 upvoteschickenbuttenders4 years ago

dude your name is so dorky. its way too obese

12 upvotesEightyTimes4 years ago

Line up another job. Call the meeting. Tell them you've lined up another job. You get the promotion at double salary (what that chick they hired instead is getting) OR you just want a raise (do the same job, but at the higher salary) or you walk.

If they cave, you show them you don't fuck around and they won't pass you up again in the future. If they don't cave, you have another job so fuck them.

2 upvotesdarkrood4 years ago

make sure you got the 2nd job, and it's a stable option.

I've heard people who left my company begging to retract their resignations when their new prospect went busto.

it's okey to do it, just make sure you have a parachute.

24 upvotesalpha_n3rd4 years ago

next time something like this happens, call a meeting like you did, but instead of quiting on the spot, give them an ultimatum, promote of ill quit and send up your resignation papers. this way you burn less bridges.

Dangerous. They might label you "the disloyal guy" and find a way to show you the door whenever it's convenient for them, like after you're finished training your replacement.

It's a lot safer to job-hop.

3 upvotesUser-31f64a4e4 years ago

I've seen this go both ways.
I've seen guys hold a company for hostage repeatedly and get away with it.
I've seen guys considered disloyal for this, and ultimately replaced.

7 upvotesPotatosAreDelicious4 years ago

The key is not to be a dick about it and just present yourself with a calm head and your intent laid clearly out.
Everyone is replaceable but if you bring value to your position and are truly being undervalued they are not going to want to replace you.

6 upvotes1independentmale4 years ago

The key is not to be a dick about it

Giving an ultimatum is being a dick. You tell them what you want and if you don't get it, then you do what you have to do. There's no need to threaten somebody with "if you don't, I'm going to."

I was once passed over for a promotion. I thanked them for considering me and started looking for a new job. I'd take a few hours of vacation time for morning interviews, then show up to work in a suit and tie to finish the remainder of my day. They figured it out on their own and promoted me rather quickly. I didn't have to verbally threaten anyone.

2 upvotesalpha_n3rd4 years ago

I've seen guys hold a company for hostage repeatedly and get away with it.

I guess you can do that if they perceive you as irreplaceable; which probably means they're incompetent managers, but whateves, if you can get away with it would getting a black mark on your work history.

9 upvotesNeopolitanAfterglow4 years ago

Dangerous. They might label you "the disloyal guy"

An employee being labelled disloyal is like a man being labeled a cheater. Intuitively it seems like a bad thing, but it's social proof and it just makes women/employers more wet for you.

6 upvotesalpha_n3rd4 years ago

Admittedly I've never tried this myself but the standard internets advice is "don't do it".

I also worked for a successful business owner who's blanket policy was to refuse to give in to any ultimatums and instead consider the given employee to have resigned on the spot thus avoiding having to terminate him and pay for his unemployment.

2 upvotesalpha_n3rd4 years ago

[deleted]

1 upvotesdrlancesweets4 years ago

Uh, cheating is bad...very bad.

0 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

[deleted]

0 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

You're not wrong, but if OP or anyone considering really is that good at their job then it shouldn't be too hard

1 upvotesNiftyDolphin4 years ago

If you were are you previous job for more than a year you made the right move.

For some reason many employers have the attitude of "If you were actually competent you would have already left for money. Since you haven't, you must not be worth what you are asking for."

Hopping jobs for higher pay now seems to be accepted practice. (After spending an "acceptable" period of time in a position.)

12 upvotesThethrowawayoption4 years ago

Doing a good job is still a good choice though because it gets you that next job (at a different company) really fast. It's much easier in general to get large pay raises by switching companies than by getting promoted within the same company, so I'd argue that should be the default strategy for guys who aren't afraid.

8 upvotesBowsNToes214 years ago

I second this. People always told me I was a fool for doing extra work outside my job scope and I would never be rewarded. At one point I was doing reports and creating financial models using SQL for our brand new database. I had to teach myself to code and learned it very well.

Did that for six months and now I'm a financial analyst at another company making an extra 23k more then I was making before.

Every time someone had mentioned about them using me I laughed on the inside because I was using them to get paid to learn a valuable skill and get work experience.

1 upvotesKalidane4 years ago

What you did is upskill. That's a very specific case of over-performing; in the general case, it is still a bad thing.

1 upvotesBowsNToes214 years ago

It's a only bad thing if you want to be promoted at your current job. It's a good thing if you're planning on leaving for a better position.

1 upvotesKalidane4 years ago

"Too valuable to promote" is a scary concept and is widely applied at my present firm. Having a meeting about that in under 3 hours funnily enough.

Strange that allowing the competition to instead promote such persons is a managerial strategy.

4 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

They found someone without balls to fill the position he wanted. Badum tssssch!

2 upvotesskoobled4 years ago

This is a very real danger when you're actually excellent at your job. Cf Gervais principle

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

[deleted]

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

He said in his post that he already got a new job within a week.

1 upvotesthe_code_always_wins4 years ago

Which is weird considering how frequently people quit their jobs nowdays. It's expected someone will advance their career by changing companies.

107 upvotesyaardi4 years ago

Congrats on the courage to quit, mate. Lots of people would have accepted it.

-13 upvotesOvadox4 years ago

Being unemployed sucks. I would have stayed on while searching for another job and taught the new girl the wrong way to do everything until leaving.

28 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

taught the new girl the wrong way to do everything until leaving.

And got a bad reference when you tried to get that new job.

14 upvotesalpha_n3rd4 years ago

bad references are a huge liability which is why most companies never give them

7 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

[permanently deleted]

7 upvotesalpha_n3rd4 years ago

95% of companies have a corporate policy of not giving ANY references, merely confirming employment, because they are averse to the risk of giving any sort of reference. This is particularly true when you speak to somebody still working at the company who cares about his/her own career, or the HR dept. You're needlessly whittling out good candidates for an absurd reason.

You can't trust good references anyway. You can bet your ass I talk to my references behind the scenes beforehand to ensure they follow my script. They'll happily tell you all the good shit about me and none of the bad, not because I'm some sort of super-employee, but because they're my friends. I also don't usually use people still working at that company for the exact reason I mentioned in the previous paragraph.

1 upvotesNeopolitanAfterglow4 years ago

The last 2 large companies I worked at, it was policy that ALL references were like that. What used to happen was that terrible employees would get stellar references from company A so that company B would poach them. Then when company B realized that they were fooled, they sued company A for a shitton of money.

Unless you're talking about tight-knit communities of small business owners that get along well with each other, employer references aren't worth shit anymore. Employers want references from former colleagues of standing.

upvotes [OP]50 years ago

[permanently deleted]

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

I obviously didn't use the desk jockies as a reference, I used the foremans who I spent weeks with.

1 upvotesOvadox4 years ago

I don't know the particulars of the OPs job, but this is something I could get away with at mine, at least for a month or two until I found something comparable or better.

1 upvoteszyk0s4 years ago

It doesn't have to, learn to save when employed so you have a cushion to fall back on for at least a few months. The only reasons I can think of to stay at a job you intend on quitting are waiting for some equity to vest, or because you are on a visa tied to your job.

1 upvotesspideyx4 years ago

That is the reaction of a spoiled 12 year old who thinks the world revolves around them.

0 upvotesOvadox4 years ago

Thank you for your input. I've dismissed it completely but the effort is appreciated!

0 upvotesgprime3124 years ago

taught the new girl the wrong way to do everything until leaving.

That's what a prissy little bitch does.

1 upvotesOvadox4 years ago

A pussy little bitch does nothing about getting fucked over.

1 upvotesgprime3124 years ago

OP did do something. He quit. A prissy bitch gets revenge on someone that doesn't deserve it.

1 upvotesOvadox4 years ago

The company deserves it. They should realize it wasn't her fault she was taught wrong and hopefully if they're smart they'll realize they should have hired the person that didn't require training at all.

0 upvotesVid-Master4 years ago

That is a very rude thing to do, the girl didn't do anything wrong.

And even if she did, cheap vengeance is worthless and often becomes negative.

Just treat people positively and with respect all the time, if they disrespect you then outsmart them and ignore them and go on with your life.

1 upvotesOvadox4 years ago

Two outcomes, despite doing everything thing wrong, as taught the girl keeps her job, the company loses because they have to spend time and effort retraining her while key tasks go undone. Or she loses the job she was not qualified for anyway, again company loses for the same reasons. Either way justice is served.

Small shit I let roll off my shoulders but I have an internal red line that if someone crosses, they will be made to regret one way or the other. It's a matter of self respect. You don't get to hurt me without consequences. If your preference is to puss out and turn the other cheek, by all means do so.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

I worked for the top rated company in my field and in my area.

202 upvotesDanedina4 years ago

The lesson here is not that you should walk away from your job when they fail to treat you with respect.

The lesson here is that you always need to keep yourself financially independent enough so that you can walk away for whatever reason.

Ask yourself right now: how many months could I survive without my current paycheck?

80 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

I think the lesson here is in today's job market always be looking to move, different departments, different companies, and even different fields, picking up skills and networking the whole way. There's (probably) no reason OP couldn't have monkey branched over before he quit. My big mistake in my career is that I thought loyalty counted for something when no one really gives a shit.

77 upvotesOvadox4 years ago

My big mistake in my career is that I thought loyalty counted for something when no one really gives a shit.

This is the red pill for your career. My current moto is "Fuck you, pay me."

37 upvotesScroph4 years ago

My current moto is "Fuck you, pay me."

It reminded me of a video I once saw about all the crap freelance programmers have to deal with.

"I have a million dollar idea website. Make me that website and then once it gets popular, I will give you a portion of said million dollars. But don't worry about not getting paid, this is a sure thing."

To which of course the response should be :

"Fuck you, pay me."

4 upvotesabcd_z4 years ago

It reminded me of a video I once saw about all the crap freelance programmers have to deal with.

This one. It should be required watching for anybody going into a web development or web design career.

5 upvotescraig_hoxton4 years ago

The response should be: "I'm not your mom so I don't do it for free."

7 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

Fuuuuuuuuuck you, pay me

-John Goodman

1 upvoteswaynebradysworld4 years ago

The gambler? Strange movie

12 upvotesPlanB_pedofile4 years ago

There was once an era where loyalty to a company meant something. A person with 30 years in will progress quite well through the field. Unfortunately today it seems the only way to expand is to quit and move to something new.

I've done that and got burned. Jumped to a new job and a 50% salary increase only to see the company i jumped to do poorly financialy and was laid off with 70% of the other staff in 2 years. The company went belly up in year 3. The recovery job seeking was a salary decrease.

But that was a bad luck brian moment.

Alas business today is like relationships. Hypergamy of the work place.

18 upvotesRedBigMan4 years ago

Yep... business (jobs and careers) went from marriage to hookup culture.

I'm willing to bet businesses that have dealt with both would much prefer the old deal where employees were hired with the expectation they'd stick around until they retired as opposed to the new deal where employees monkey branch every 2 years or so.

6 upvotesmarty2k4 years ago

Part of that deal is that you promote people and give them raises fairly consistently, not keep them on the same pay grade same job until they retire. Business are like women, hypergamous.

2 upvotesRedBigMan4 years ago

[deleted]

2 upvotesRedBigMan4 years ago

Yep... Loyal employees are screwed. Everyone should be out for #1.

6 upvotesiukenbo4 years ago

Hooo. Im currently at this position. I think my job's shitty because I almost do all the work. Now, a higher position is waiting for me (HR prioritized me) and my boss advised me not to jump ship because they think I'd have no growth path in that position. Before that, I heard from HR that he won't recommend me because I'll be hard to replace. The position pays higher and is significantly more superior than what I have right now but I'm afraid my boss is right :/

35 upvotesgrubek4 years ago

I would not listen to your boss. He just wants to keep his bitch that does all the work (that's you obviously).

It might be true it might be false, your boss does not care. He just wants to keep his bitch and will say whatever necessary, truth or false. You obviously are a bit naive and that's why he thinks it can work on you.

Ignore what your boss tells you.

12 upvotesRedBigMan4 years ago

Don't go by what your boss tells you. Go by their actions. Much like women the truth will come out in their actions. If you're being shitted on by your boss like the OP then the actions will show that even if your boss is saying you're super awesome and we're lucky to have you in our company!.

1 upvotesiukenbo4 years ago

[deleted]

1 upvotesiukenbo4 years ago

I said im still not sure so they got other potential candidates on the list. But I pretty much got the upper hand on the waiting position. Im still waiting for the interview from the boss.

10 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

That sounds a lot like OP "and that I should just keep doing what I have been doing and it will all work out for me". It's true if you pass on position B because position C might open up and that's a more direct path to the much better position D. I remember similar things being told to me. Today I would say fuck sacrificing now for future reward. In general that's a good life philosophy, but at work it has almost never panned out. Opting for position B might cap your ultimate potential at your current company, but I highly doubt adding it to your resume hurts your chances at other companies. There are a million different things to consider, but the big thing that would prevent me in a similar spot is if I was going to be working for/with idiots. Being surrounded by constant stupidity is a major stressor for me.

5 upvotescover204 years ago

The position is waiting, HR has "prioritized" you. Why aren't you in that position today? What is the position waiting for? Not sure HR is being completely truthful here.

3 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

That's pretty classic from current bosses. If you're a good employee, that means your leaving will make their entire work life more difficult so unless they're a good and somewhat selfless person, they aren't really going to want that to happen. I was in the same position a while back ago. Could have stuck in my former department that I hated doing all the work for my bosses, or take a leap to a different department with higher pay. Definitely glad I jumped ship. Always go for the promotion, even if it's the top of the ladder in that department, you'll have it on your resume and jump into a higher role somewhere else even easier.

2 upvotesiukenbo4 years ago

That made sense. Thank you for the input. I needed an unbiased opinion from a different point of view.

1 upvoteschb10000014 years ago

"Hi boss. I am going to advance my career now. If you would like me to do that with this company, we need to make some decisions today."

Shut up and wait until boss says something you like.

1 upvotesaguy014 years ago

Careers are a lot like women.

1 upvotes87GNX4 years ago

Everyone has to learn this one the hard way.

9 upvotesxPURE_AcIDx4 years ago

Be in the level of Fuck You. (from the gambler)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdfeXqHFmPI

2 upvotestedcase4 years ago

3 comfortably, 5 at a push.

92 upvotesSleepNowMyThrowaway4 years ago

Back when I worked summers on a road crew to pay for school I had something similar happen.

We worked several weeks on a few projects then I was let go - which floored me as I had worked there the prior summer and had had no problems the current summer.

Found out they had switched from local work and had taken on a new job that required a certain percentage of "minorities" so I as a lowly summer worker and of the wrong sex/race, was ditched.

Didn't overly bother me, although the pay was fantastic, especially with the overtime. I felt sorry for the others that were laid off however; they sure as heck weren't glib about being let go, no matter how temporary it might have been.

I reflected then, and still believe today, shafting qualified people to appease some special minority group is a sure fire way to gin up authentic hatred for said groups, as well as the government that mandates such policy.

32 upvotesTerriChris4 years ago

I saw three white male managers get fired and replaced my two white women and a black guy. One of the women earned it the other two were not a fit. One of the women was double promoted with in a few months. The black guy was cool but was not capable to do his staff engineer job.

9 upvotesyummyluckycharms4 years ago

[deleted]

9 upvotesyummyluckycharms4 years ago

Very true.

Most people's ideas of how company's work in regards to promotion date back to the 50's, but company's employ just in time labour and are very lean. They dont have surplus capacity anymore, and even more to the point, if they promote someone who is very good at their job, they would have even LESS capacity.

The majority of people I know who got promoted did so by leaving the company - almost 95%

35 upvotesbustanutmeow4 years ago

What did they say in regards to you quitting?

8 upvotesexit_sandman4 years ago

Yeah, this would interest me as well.

6 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

They didn't say to much. It was more of a "if that's how you feel". To be honest, I didn't really give a shit on how they felt. I made my mind up.

8 upvotesRedpillc0re4 years ago

It doesn't really matter, nobody is irreplaceable in a corporation. The best you can do is to negotiate the best terms in the market, like the OP did.

13 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

They would have you think that, but finding a decent replacement can take 6 months or more. I have learned this from experience. There aren't actually an overabundance of great potential employees just sitting around waiting for someone to hire them, contrary to popular belief.

2 upvotesRedpillc0re4 years ago

But they did in the end. What I 'm saying is that you should not consider yourself irreplaceable, and instead you should always look for the best terms for yourself which most of the time will be elsewhere. In fact my advice is to switch employment every 4-7 years

2 upvotesaguy014 years ago

All relationships are replaceable but people still get hurt when they end.

5 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

nobody is irreplaceable in a corporation

Not in small/medium sized companies. Very often, people fill crucial positions that are not easy to replace. OP didn't explain how big his company was, but odds are they just shot themselves in the foot by paying a woman more to do less work and lose two men who were pulling more than their weight.

31 upvotesyummyluckycharms4 years ago

This is how you do it.

Recognize that if you were truly valued - they would've promoted you over the other person because you were best qualified.

Recognize that they didnt offer any sort of compensation, but told him to be a good little boy and to go back to his corner

Recognize that having the power to walk away and to actually use it is the one true power that not even the matriarchy take away from you

23 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

Gotta love those minority quotas even though women make up the majority in this world. Whatever happened to hiring the best person for the job? It disturbs me to know that we are giving up making actual progress in our society for diversity in the workplace. You were clearly the better person for the job and obviously your boss had quotas to fill so it can't be helped but your former boss fucked himself two ways.

  • He lost one of his most valuable employees
  • He hired someone with no experience to take a position that is yours

Your former boss will lose money for both those mistakes and the competing company you work for will only gain. I am just angry that we need to somehow give up bettering society by placing the best people for the job for being progressive which has been doing the opposite of progress.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

[deleted]

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

What does that have to do with being a minority? To me there are minorities out there who are hard working and really good at what they do. We have to stop catering to minorities and just let nature take its course. We have made enough progress where surprise surprise minorities can out-preform the straight white males and we consider them for the same job.

Also, who really knows if the woman will burn out? We do know that her lack of experience will cause her to under-preform compared to OP. But who really knows if she is a complete lost case.

But yeah with her the struggle will increase. I don't believe she is completely ill-prepared since she wanted this job in the first place and someone else can train her to do the job. But that still doesn't change the fact that her inexperience will cost her.

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

[deleted]

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

I'm not bitter, salty, or even angry, just disturbed that diversity, inclusiveness, and -insert progressive buzzword here- is taking the place of meritocracy.

upvotes [OP]50 years ago

[permanently deleted]

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

I don't blame the business for needing to fulfill a minority quota. They have to do whatever it takes to get by. My gripe is with the fact that there is such a thing as a minority quota. And while that business probably did screw itself I don't think it will lose a ton money over one employee.

upvotes [OP]50 years ago

[permanently deleted]

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

Yup it is becoming less about what you know and more about who you know.

36 upvotesTheRealMouseRat4 years ago

[deleted]

36 upvotesTheRealMouseRat4 years ago

[deleted]

36 upvotesTheRealMouseRat4 years ago

and now they can't train the quotee.

75 upvotesRRIAFC4 years ago

Egalitarianism would have given the job to the person who was best qualified, i.e. OP. This is Marxism.

17 upvotesBrian_Official4 years ago

Yeah it really sucks that businesses are regulated and encouraged to hire by racial/gender lottery than by something ridiculous like applicable skills and experience.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

The contracts that my company would try to get would be regulated by things like how many minorities they had on site, or even just working for the company. Those contracts are also the most lucrative.

0 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

[deleted]

3 upvoteswllm48214 years ago

Do you even know what Marxism is, lol

2 upvotesHrodrik4 years ago

It's Marx's other book, haven't you read it? "Das Patriarchy".

4 upvoteswllm48214 years ago

Yeah, like his theory, "Modes of Betabucking"

2 upvotesrpscrote4 years ago

in practice, whatever terminology the feminists get their hands on turns into de-facto marxism in short order

-4 upvotesRaigek4 years ago

Stop using Marxism, you guys are idiots that don't know anything about it

2 upvotestotorox4 years ago

We had this debate in gamergate. You marxist deniers got rekt.

-2 upvotesRaigek4 years ago

Cool cool, I'm a educated and active socialist though. You can't get me 'rekt' on anything political.

I'll destroy your libertarian fallacies any time of the day.

0 upvotesHrodrik4 years ago

Oh god, here were go again....

1 upvoteskick64 years ago

Not wanted to: likely had to.

1 upvotesNikolaTeslaMGTOW4 years ago

You're a man.

Our ability to walk away is our strenght.

But one of our weknesses is seplling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=1ix_sHfwBJw#t=19

11 upvotesTerryYockey4 years ago

I can't understand why a shitpost nitpicking a typo is being upvoted.

0 upvotesMightyTaint4 years ago

Well, it certainly isn't our spelling.

54 upvotesVasiliyZaitzev4 years ago

You don't have to stand and take the bullshit that comes your way.

This. Congrats to you for telling them to get stuffed. Bosses are always surprised by this. Oh, and that situation was never going to improve.

They told me ... that I should just keep doing what I have been doing and it will all work out for me.

Right, just keep eating the same crap sandwich and eventually you won't notice the shit taste anymore.

Anyway, glad it did work out. Incidentally, when you interviewed for the new gig, how did you cover the departure from the old gig?

4 upvotesScroph4 years ago

They told me ... that I should just keep doing what I have been doing and it will all work out for me.

This reminds me of a saying that comes up every once in a while, especially in fitness-related forums : if you keep doing what you're always doing, you will keep getting the same results you're always getting. I don't know who said it and I might have paraphrased it, but that's the gist of it. I always thought it made sense from a "lifting" standpoint, but I was surprised to see it was applicable to OP's situation as well.

5 upvotesVasiliyZaitzev4 years ago

There might be some applicability to things that are effort-based, but in this case, an artificial rationale (promote noob women over experienced men) was injected into the situation.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

Actually, that statement has always annoyed the shit out of me because it makes sense in everything except for lifting. If you're doing the same old thing and it's giving you results you like... Why the hell would you change anything?

1 upvotesReavver894 years ago

Exactly, you wouldn't. On the other hand, If you've been doing the same thing in lifting for 4 months and haven't been getting enough gains (AKA you are NOT happy with your results) you should switch up your routine. Your comment reads like a confirmation of the statement.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

Yeah, I guess so in that context. Thing is I always see douchey instagram bros I know quoting that mantra as a justification for them constantly switching up their shit, a la "muscle confusion".

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

The new gig didn't even ask on why I left the former. They just wanted to know what I wanted and what I knew.

1 upvotesVasiliyZaitzev4 years ago

Excellent. In my business, they always ask about why I want to leave. My current gig gives me a ton of freedom, so I haven't interviewed in a long time, but I'm sure I had a pat answer about needing a new opportunity to grow my skills and such.

2 upvotesaguy014 years ago

[deleted]

2 upvotesaguy014 years ago

Yea but if they used any logic at all this sub wouldn't exist.

132 upvotespilledwillingly4 years ago

My little sister is an apprentice electrician, based on my advice for her to "get a man's job if she wants to make good cash and be independent. "

Now that she has the job I say: "Don't take any offer for advancement unless you've earned it. " As the only female in 50+ apprentices, the company is bending over backwards for her, and she's refusing to take priority placement, and refuses to skip the more physical rotations. This is how you be a female in a male world without pissing everyone off. I give it 4 years before she's offered a permanent desk job/promotion, one that she will also refuse if she doesn't merit it.

13 upvotesgprime3124 years ago

You're a great big brother and your little sis sounds awesome. I wish more women(and people in general) had your sister's self-respect.

81 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

Yes the system is rigged in the favor of women. Not taking advantage of that as a woman is not smart at all.

67 upvotespilledwillingly4 years ago

If your goal is to work in the field for 4 years and then be the incompetent manager who is never taken seriously for the next 30, then yeah.

106 upvotesmathis53324 years ago

Wrong. It can do incredible things for her self-esteem. It means she can trust her judgment better than others. She has a standard for fairness and demands to be treated equally, for better or for worse. That's the only way to make your place in the world of work without everybody roling their eyes when they see you enter the room.

3 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

Exactly. She is family. I do not care about morals on minor issues when it comes to family doing better. If she can get to manager and do it without deserving it, who cares, she's your sister afterall.

63 upvotespilledwillingly4 years ago

[deleted]

63 upvotespilledwillingly4 years ago

No, I'm not doing shit for honor. I'm doing it because I know the industry. Word of mouth is your future, contacts are your security, your image is everything. You fuck up a polarity, and you're the guy who fucked up a polarity forever. Her peers are tomorrow's business owners, tomorrow's deserved managers at her company's competitors. Why would I advise her to to take the glass elevator with a finger in their face while they are climbing the ladder? It's a slow burn.

9 upvoteswanderer7794 years ago

I guess I am jaded on this subject because I've come to have the attitude, "get the money and fuck everything else." I've tried to work hard but it seems that a lot of other factors such as politics, connections, personality, ass kissing and most importantly negotiating power are more important than work ethic and knowledge.

My experience with the electrical field is that it's full of nepotism. I tried to become an electrician before. I am 99.9% sure I aced the entrance test, but they would not let me in. They also would not tell me my score on the test, despite telling the class that they would prior to taking it. After the test they had me come back for the interview portion, during which they made sure to work in the question, "who do you know in the union?"

No offense to you, things might be different in your area or industry and I'm sure you know the game. I've been told that the dynamics change depending on what local you go to.

6 upvoteswatersign4 years ago

unions are the working mans good ol' boy networks. they are full of nepotism..its not based on skill..they are scum

1 upvotespilledwillingly4 years ago

It's not different in mine. Nepotism is still rife within companies, but the larger entities are more regulated and require to take on a certain amount of apprentices through standardized tests.

1 upvotespilledwillingly4 years ago

[deleted]

1 upvotespilledwillingly4 years ago

You can't learn to be an electrician by managing jobs from an office. Managing is about reading plans, getting stock, procuring materials, assigning people. Working for a manager who can't do your job is like flying a plane without air traffic control. Sure you can land the plane, but you have no support if anything doesn't go exactly to plan, nobody who can forsee a decision made in step 1 affecting step 36. And we that's how managers end up back on the street, or back on the tools.

9 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

In a short term view maybe. In the broader scope, she's taking up a job that could go to a suitable male who would be more suitable for a job like that.

13 upvotespilledwillingly4 years ago

And because you don't know whose job she took, everyone in the running for it hates you. And now they work for you.

-1 upvotesphalanx24 years ago

And you think that hate is justified?

0 upvotesphalanx24 years ago

haha. so you think its a woman's responsibility not to not get into male dominated fields because she should know that there is a man who can do the job better? how is your comment upvoted?

1 upvotesmichael67954 years ago

It may not be smart in the short-term, but if women truly want to be viewed equally, this is the way to do it.

2 upvotesFaps2Down_Votes4 years ago

If her company is union that doesn't surprise me. They prolly wont put her at a desk job though because they need her for those pesky minority quotas.

upvotes [OP]50 years ago

[permanently deleted]

1 upvotespilledwillingly4 years ago

She's not hamstrung. She's an apprentice. Every option will be considered based on its merit, but not jumped at, especially if it burns bridges.

2 upvotespilledwillingly4 years ago

[deleted]

2 upvotespilledwillingly4 years ago

Correct (although in australia we just say tradesmen after apprenticeship is completed). The opportunities I'm talking about NOW are to just skip maintenance and retrofitting rotation which involve more physical labor and dirty work than new installations, but everyone else has to go through it. The company has just been really clear that they want her to stay on, even though they aren't really obligated to continue employment after training finishes. They go out of their way to ensure she can access female bathrooms on site even though she's happy to use portable toilets. She gets asked by management if she's happy, fairly regularly.

When I said "I give it 4 years..." I mean that I believe it will happen within 4 years time - so no, she hasn't been given a desk job yet, if the syntax was misleading.

1 upvotesgarlicextract4 years ago

Now that she has the job I say: "Don't take any offer for advancement unless you've earned it. " As the only female in 50+ apprentices, the company is bending over backwards for her, and she's refusing to take priority placement, and refuses to skip the more physical rotations.

Well that's stupid as fuck. She should definitely advance if she is offered it...

1 upvotespilledwillingly4 years ago

And I disagree. It's a job where you fuck up and you die. She shouldn't be managing people before she knows what she's doing. Kara Hultgreen is a cautionary tale.

4 upvotesred_gerb4 years ago

[deleted]

4 upvotesred_gerb4 years ago

I was never given clear goals to receive promotion. Then when I finally got a promotion, I was written up for not performing to expectations. Bottom line: It's all BS, and the Boss just wants a good ass kissing. Nobody ever explained it too me. I will never bend the knee. Corporate Bastarditos.

Watch what they do, not what they say.

28 upvotesnuesuh4 years ago

quota for minorities had to be filled

I didn't knew being a woman made you a minority.

37 upvotesfrys1804 years ago

White women are considered minorities. They benefit the most from affirmative action.

49 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

Its a pretty neat magic trick to be considered a minority when you are the biggest group of people in the country.

12 upvotesthrough_a_ways4 years ago

when you are the biggest group of people in the country.

and also the most privileged, objectively speaking.

14 upvotescover204 years ago

Black women say white women benefit the most from a.a. I think that's only true in total: the most a.a. hires of any subgroup are white women. But per capita, I am sure it's black women.

Black women are double minorities. And as a result, very few black men get preferential treatment. Why hire a black man if you can hire a black woman and get double credit? So black men probably get little benefit from a.a. and have a high unemployment rate.

I have no axe to grind here. I am a white man. I'll never get quota treatment whichever of these other groups wins their little scrap for a.a. preference.

1 upvotesthrough_a_ways4 years ago

[deleted]

1 upvotesthrough_a_ways4 years ago

unnecessarily long.

Native > African > Hispanic > European/Middle Eastern > Asian/Indian

female > male

grabbler > non-grabbler

6 upvoteswanderer7794 years ago

also from what I can tell most black dudes just said fuck the whole system and went rogue. I can't say I blame them.

1 upvotesthrough_a_ways4 years ago

It's definitely black women, but not only for the reasons you're thinking.

It's true that black women are double minorities, being of both female and URM background.

However, it's also true that black women are comparatively much more naturally advantaged than black men in a feminine system of education.

In Asia, there is no gender gap in educational achievement; Korean males do just as well as Korean females.

In Europe/"Caucasia", males are outperformed by females (as far as GPA and booksmarts go)

In black America, males are far outperformed by females, to the tune of 2 black women having a degree for every 1 black man.

While blacks in general have low IQs, black women are far overrepresented on the high end of the bell curve, similar to how men of other races are overrepresented compared to their women. This means that among blacks, who receive the biggest boost from AA (discounting American Natives), black women benefit from AA disproportionately more than the men.

http://isteve.blogspot.com/2005/12/do-black-women-have-higher-iqs-than.html

3 upvotesRPthrowaway1234 years ago

Seriously, women make up 50% of the population. How the fuck are they a minority!

1 upvotesdenart44 years ago

Anything that is not a straight white male is a minority.

25 upvotesVoshe4 years ago

This shit angers me to no end. You did the right thing.

27 upvotesrevofire4 years ago

Quotas are garbage. Any company that complies with one is weak as hell. Always walk away and leave them hanging if they try to pull a fast one in the name of equality.

17 upvotesRedpillc0re4 years ago

they are not weak, they are prudent. lawsuits exist. if, however , everyone acts rationally, like the OP did, companies that implement them fail. natural business selection

5 upvotesrpscrote4 years ago

Quotas are IN NO WAY AT ALL mandated by the law. Not even close. If you do this, it's because you're weak and too lazy to figure out how to do it right, legally.

1 upvotesRedpillc0re4 years ago

In some countries they are, though. And companies do get sued (the boss of this very website, god bless her soul, did it) regardless if there aren't quota laws in the us

1 upvotesrpscrote4 years ago

[deleted]

1 upvotesrpscrote4 years ago

Not hiring anyone at all is protection from frivolous lawsuits too, but you don't see that given as advice (but it is a benefit of working for yourself...)

In the public arena, quotas are actually de facto illegal. In the private arena, they are not illegal but they are absolutely 100% not mandatory. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regents_of_the_University_of_California_v._Bakke and succeeding cases for university entrance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricci_v._DeStefano and succeeding cases for public hiring quotas made for purposes of avoiding disparate impact claims.

You are mistaken on how discrimination lawsuits work. There is an extremely rigid burden of proof shifting framework. Making shit up is so common there that the courts have devised a tough framework to beat. The part that's painful is the EEOC audit because its not a formal lawsuit. Quotas are HARMFUL evidence against you if you're trying to prove you don't discriminate intentionally. I agree promoting a woman is helpful evidence however.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_Corp._v._Green for intentional discrimination claims. Very rigorous. Expensive to defend, but very likely you will win if you didn't actually discriminate. Disparate impact claims are different, and very hard to prove in real practice on their own right, but can provide another avenue. Intentional discrimination is where the real damages lie though.

0 upvotesFaps2Down_Votes4 years ago

You are absolutely wrong. See my other comments for explanation.

1 upvotesrpscrote4 years ago

No, I'm not. Cite your cases.

2 upvotescover204 years ago

OK when they weigh the costs and benefits, they have the lawyers telling them to hire the woman, but at least they should have the supervisor telling them he needs the man and is afraid he'll quit if he's mistreated.

2 upvotesrevofire4 years ago

Lol natural business selection. That is true.

3 upvotesFaps2Down_Votes4 years ago

Not if it's a requirement. If you own a construction company, and you are working on a job where there is government money involved, at least in my state, you need to meet these quotas or face giant fines. Then again, any business that needs to suck off the government teet is probably weak as hell. At least low morals.

1 upvoteswatersign4 years ago

all big corporations and publicly traded entities have to fill these quotas

3 upvotesrevofire4 years ago

That is the worst thing I have ever heard of... how on earth does something so illegal become law?

3 upvoteswatersign4 years ago

the soviet take over america happened in the 60s and now its ramping up now. the collapse of society usually occurs when communism happens

1 upvotesrenegade4 years ago

Actually groups that have a diversity of outlooks have better decisions in general. Quotas should not be necessary but some organizations are too ossified to make smart choices of their own accord.

11 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

Good on you. If companies want good people to stay they need to reward them

11 upvotesbigdickbanditss4 years ago

can't applaud this enough

the more people taking less shit the easier they make it on everyone, your bosses will think twice about giving it raw dog to outstanding employes from then on

don't take shit from anyone

3 upvotesMightyTaint4 years ago

the more people taking less shit the easier they make it on everyone

So much this. I'm in a field where a large percentage of the workers are beta. It's like I have to train the higher ups not to try to push me around all the time. They're always so shocked. They're basically like "Be our bitch", and I'm like "No, go fuck yourself, and good luck finding somebody else who can do the job". Their shock and actual lack of leverage is always humorous.

11 upvotesStopher4 years ago

What seems most retarded to me is that a job that's so similar to your current one in the current company, similar enough that you're going to train the new person, pays almost twice as much.

1 upvotesnewls4 years ago

Different people's contracts can run on for a long time. My mother was on a different (higher) pay to everyone else in her team for six months because of this. But yeah, double is a lot.

1 upvotesStopher4 years ago

[deleted]

1 upvotesStopher4 years ago

OP didn't indicate that that was the case here.

1 upvotesStopher4 years ago

[deleted]

1 upvotesStopher4 years ago

Much like this sub says not to apply logic or reason to female behavior, I do the same with management.

1 upvotesDev_on4 years ago

theres always rationale, just not the same as what we think it is.

I've seen both sides. And if you are too stupid to realize that being the best worker isn't the same skillset as the best manager...

instead of doing his job the best, he should have been doing it half assed, and doing the job of a manager... also ensuring that you're palatable to your new group of peers, since they pick who they get to work with.

or just move along when you get a change.

Theres always logic, always a reason, just because we cant see it doesn't make it irrational

1 upvotesStopher4 years ago

Yeah you're right. I'm too stupid. Except he didn't say it was a management job and your trolling an Internet fight when we all know the world isn't fair and managers can be stupid and he did the right thing by leaving. The rationale could be they were already paying him less or she had nice tits, he did mention consumer vs commercial accounts) or one of a zillion other things. I don't expect perfect parity. I'm pretty sure I make more than my immediate manager now. Timing is big and that happens. A fifty percent difference is not acceptable from what I read in the post.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

It really has to do with the contracts that are signed. To get someone to volunteer basically for this service for their house needs to be a lot lower than a commercial building that requires by law for this to be a part of the building. I do fire sprinkler systems.

25 upvotesCuddleMyNeckbeard4 years ago

Now what a great example of equality...

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

A woman making it because she works as hard as men do. Wait, that's not right...

8 upvotesfavours_of_the_moon4 years ago

I got the job I was looking for at a competing company with in a week.

Congrats brother.

If they wanted to fulfill some minority quota, they could have promoted you and hired the woman for your old job. Maybe she was somebody's wife. Either way, it's bullshit. You deserved better, and you got it.

3 upvotesgrewapair4 years ago

They may have known they were under paying him and no one would take his old job at his low salary, so they were trying not to rock his boat.

10 upvotesCyralea4 years ago

Abundance mentality is the key to success in every area of life. Be it women, jobs, house-buying, the person who is most willing to walk has the most power.

Good on you for having a spine.

9 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

Good on you. I am experiencing a similar situation right now. Work at a law firm as an attorney; busted my ass and crushed for three years. Brought the firm a lot of money. Was up for my raise in February and asked for a justifiable raise. Raise was given, but it was pathetic and actually lower in percentage than my last two raises. Then I learned that my group was advertising a position at an amount that would have been equal to the raise I requested. So what did I do? Applied like fuck to another job. Got it. 45% pay bump. Tomorrow is my last day at my old firm.

3 upvotesPhilhelm4 years ago

I'd feel sorry for you, but I'm a paralegal.

I work at a small immigration law office with one attorney who drives an Astin Martin. I've been here two years without a single raise, and all of the staff were subjected to a temporary 10% pay cut for a few months, literally the same week the attorney purchased a new Jeep (a bona fide Jeep; not like a Jeep Cherokee or something like that).

Every day I wake up, a huge, metaphorical, meaty cock slaps me in the face several times. I scaled back my work effort 20% and take the LSAT in June. Fuck it.

13 upvotesoldredder4 years ago

You did right by yourself. This is truly holding frame and also showing that the root of the red pill is economic and is self-respect and building yourself.

If you can train a person to do a job you can do that job and it's wrong for you to be both deprived and train the other person.

5 upvotesDRMMR764 years ago

I had a very similar thing happen to me, except with race not gender. Worked for a security company a long time ago that had a black manager and 4 supervisors, all black. I watched them go through probably 8 more supervisors while I was with the company, all of the new ones having less experience, education, training, or seniority than me. When I saw that after the 7 or 8 new supervisors that they only promoted other black guys and that not a single white person was in any kind of management position whatsoever, I quit on the spot. And I waited until the day I was supposed to train one of the new supervisors on his job, since between supervisors, I had to do all of their actual duties but without the raise or promotion.

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

lol imagine the reverse. see: 1890s America. now it's the reverse, but it's okay because our ancestors 150 years ago had it slightly better!

6 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

I'm getting fucked over right now thanks to affirmative action. First, can someone explain to me how 51% of the population is a minority?

2 upvotesaguy014 years ago

They're only 51% because 99% of workplace deaths are men.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

Oh I wonder if they fight to work those jobs? I mean I'm sure they feel entitled to the same pay, just for easier, safer work!

5 upvotesbusyalterego4 years ago

Perfect analogy for TRP. It's the same thing we always say with women:

Women: None of them are loyal, so forget about commitment. Just spin plates and look out for #1. Abundance mentality and frame. Keep lifting and adding value.

Employers: None of them are loyal, so forget about commitment. Just keep your resume updated and ditch the company when it suits you. Abundance mentality and frame. Keep improving your skills and list of accomplishments.

5 upvotesfluxburn4 years ago

I say the only time you do a good job is to get hired. Then just suck at your job. You're more likely to be promoted then busting your ass. Because if you bust your ass, the you are the best at the job. If you suck at your job, you must be looking do something else.

I worked my ass off at a job and never got employee of the month from these fucks. Never again will I work hard.

1 upvotesaguy014 years ago

Busting your ass so somebody else can keep all the profits is silly anyway.

6 upvotesTeaParPat4 years ago

Buddy of mine has a black wife. To prove a point about quotas, she submitted a resume that included a photograph for an HR position that required 5 years of experience (she has 0). Sure enough, she got the interview and was offered the job 10 minutes through the interview. When she left the interview room, she talked to one of the other candidates outside, this one a white man about 40 years old and found out that he was a former HR department head at GEICO and had been for 15 years.

4 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

I don't see why my business should have to suffer so that I meet minority quotas. I would not care if the individual was green and four feet tall if he was the best candidate.

1 upvotesMightyTaint4 years ago

I would not care if the individual was green and four feet tall if he was the best candidate.

Neither would the vast majority of businesses. They are a business, they don't give a fuck who does the job, just who turns the greatest profit.

It goes back to the whole erroneous "Women are paid 75 cents for every dollar a man gets." Why on earth would a business willfully pay a man 33% more than a woman, if they can get a female to do the exact same job at an extreme discount? Because they like flushing money down the toilet?

So, if quotas exist (or there are at least pressures for a business to appear diverse), how can a company use this to their advantage? The answer is: by keeping skilled labor like OP working for pennies, and blaming quotas. Like OP said, he didn't blame the female candidate who got the job (who could? we all are going to try to get the best position and pay we possibly can), but he does blame management for trying to fuck him.

3 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

Good for you for telling them to fuck off. I did the same recently and the company was begging me not to leave. After I left, 20% of the remaining staff for my position also left within 2 months.

6 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

As someone from post-soviet country, I have strong allergy on preferential treatment. My relatives have very bad memories on that. Anyway just being good at your job is not enough.

There is sort of twisted way to take advantage of it. It will probably burn bridges, but one could get proper dismissal with 3 months salary, instead of just quitting. Leaving your job also compromises unemployment support and is hell with alimony.

What I say applies to UK law.

  • they openly admitted discrimination based on sex. There are quotas to be filled, but employer must do it without discriminating other sex/races.

  • you can legally change your race by converting to different religion (Jew or Sikth).

  • some countries in EU allow you to declare any origin you want. You grand-grand-grand-grand-grand-grand father was from Africa?

  • coming out of closet was never easier.

9 upvotesfortifiedoranges4 years ago

This is why you need to take advantage of a broken society. I'm a black lesbian stuck In a white man's body. If you don't hire me you're a racist, sexist bigot. Fuck it, if they (SJWs) want to play like that I will play like that.

3 upvotescover204 years ago

It was too late. The other person was already hired. They gave him no warning that would have allowed him to use those strategies.

5 upvotesDjentlord4 years ago

Affirmative action is quite fucked up. It should be merit based. All affirmative action is is the only form of discrimination that pleases liberals.

0 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

It isn't fucked up in its base idea. It's fucked up in execution. Fuck racial or gender based affirmative action.

Economic affirmative action, on the other hand, is fair and necessary in my book You can't expect some kid from the ghetto with a shit family situation and school environment to do as wwll as some kid in the suburbs. That, unfortunately, will never get rectified by current aff action.

9 upvotescover204 years ago

[deleted]

9 upvotescover204 years ago

Not needed. Just demand to be HER boss or at least make a lot of money. Otherwise turn them down.

We know how to turn down women. It's no different. Hold frame.

2 upvotesrpscrote4 years ago

and then after a short period of time to gain some experience, flip the new promoted position to one at a competitor for even more money and a better work environment

6 upvoteswanderer7794 years ago

I think this is good advice. Forget the satisfaction and take the money. This boss didn't do this out of spite, he is just playing the game for himself and so should you.

I like that scene in "thank you for smoking" where his boss takes credit for his idea and he just takes it in stride without missing a beat. The guy is so smooth, he doesn't spend a second whining about how the game is played, he just keeps hustling.

I'm trying to learn to be more like this. I'm naturally very concerned with morals, and I am outraged by hypocrisy and have a pretty strong vindictive streak. But I have to admit it does me absolutely no good.

1 upvotespuppetmstr4 years ago

I interpreted that scene as the Colonel testing Nick's loyality and knowledge of the laws of power. They way he said 'yes, smart man that B.R.....?' He knew it was actually Nicks idea.

3 upvotesjuliusstreicher4 years ago

You inspire us all. I hope your ex-bosses have learned a lesson. Thank you.

3 upvotesWhiteBlackNight4 years ago

This is awesome and truly inspirational. This happens to be my very second post on TRP. I have been lurking for a long time without commenting but absolutely felt compelled to commend this brave man.

I don't know you, but if I could afford it, I would honestly spot you till you find another job and get back on your feet.

3 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

Good job on walking out, I never understood the quota equal opportunity bullshit. If you're not qualified for the job, you're not qualified, it doesn't matter what color or gender you are.

I deal with it a lot on the reservation I work on, but it actually makes sense up here.. If you're a native american and it's on your land and you're equally qualified, you do deserve the job... But when it comes down to hiring a qualified person, and you have to choose the female who's 50% dumber than the male who applied it really reflects poorly on your business.

3 upvotesRPthrowaway1234 years ago

Good for you. Don't take shit from anyone. you're greatest strength in any negotiation is your ability to walk away.

Glad to hear it worked out for you with another company!

1 upvotesMightyTaint4 years ago

you're greatest strength in any negotiation is your ability to walk away

It's important to repeat that, and expand upon the idea that everyone should strive to have a large nest egg, so that that ability is true and actually present.

3 upvotesericatx4 years ago

You are a f**king hero! Man, if more dudes did this when these "quotas" are shoved in our faces companies would think twice before passing up the right person for the promotion. What you did takes BALLS! Awesome!

3 upvotesphism4 years ago

They probably didn't really have a quota to fill and just told you what you wanted to hear so you wouldn't take it personally.

3 upvotesIvanMedved4 years ago

You should have asked for increase wage to the one of that position, then quit.

3 upvotesGainzdalfTheWhey4 years ago

I'd like to buy you a beer for being that awesome, i hope they get fucked by not having anyone with your qualities to perform the job.

3 upvotesMitchs_Frog_Smacky4 years ago

Feels great doesn't it? I had to train another guy all of my duties (even though he wasn't an engineer) when the economy took a dump and I was the "newest" employee there (14 months) so I was out the door. He felt bad about it and I just kept telling him the whole time "no worries, I'm teaching you everything completely incorrectly." in which he laughed... But was I joking...?

3 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

I'll never forget my first desk job. I got trained by a guy who pretty much as soon as he finished training me quit. Due to the monthly nature of the products training took several months. When he quit I asked my boss if I would now get an assistant. He said he was already interviewing. Had two people short listed, a man and a woman.

The man; previous job in the same role, years of experience. Knew how to handle courier companies we used, had Industry connections.

The woman; fresh off the boat from Indonesia, strong accent, never worked in the industry before.

My managers main concern "if I hire the women, i'll have more girls on my team". You can guess who I was training after that. I quit for unrelated reasons after the training was done.

2 upvotesEnolator4 years ago

This is the strong attitude many have had issues with in their careers. May I ask how you handled the "Why did you leave your previous job?" question with the new place?

3 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

??? I'm guessing exactly what he said here would be a good start. He was more than qualified, passed all the tests and was told the only reason he didn't get the job was because they had to fill a quota. Seems a good enough reason to quit and look for the same job elsewhere no need to make something up.

It shows the new employer you really want that job...

5 upvotesyummyluckycharms4 years ago

DO NOT SAY THAT.

The classic response to this question is to say the following....

"I'm continually striving to improve myself and I like to seek out new challenges to grow from. Having exceeded in my old position, I wanted to take the next step and saw that your company was hiring for the position of x, y, z. It looked enticing, so I applied"

The original response looked whiny - this response suggests drive and ambition. Which candidate would you choose, hmm?

2 upvotesTheRealMouseRat4 years ago

I would have told them that I wanted the same wage as the other position would have given, or I'd quit. However, I liked your solution better. (to just quit)

2 upvotesRRIAFC4 years ago

Was it a quota for that specific position? Why couldn't they promote you and hire her and have you train her to do your old job?

2 upvotescover204 years ago

Very well done. Many props.

2 upvotesChairBorneMGTOW4 years ago

Please tell me that you left before she was properly trained.

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

I don't think the company knows what the word "minority" means.

2 upvotesShigglyboo4 years ago

Good for you man! Doesn't matter who they hired, bottom line is whomever is most qualified should get the job. I have no problem with women or minorities in the workplace, I like a good mix of people, but it's all about what you bring to the table. If your employer doesn't value you it's a toxic environment. Always nice to hear things are going well for someone, congrats on the new position!

2 upvotesTheLordOfShit4 years ago

File a sexual discrimination lawsuit.

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

"It was because a quota for minorities had to be filled" This is what burns shitty companies down. Good for you! FUCK THEM! We DON'T have to take this Marxist horse shit sitting down. Do whatever you can to steal business from them.

2 upvotesnewmeforever4 years ago

You did the right thing.

Fuck that, wouldn't doubt they give you a call soon (or maybe not)

Keep moving on up.

2 upvoteszdayatk4 years ago

You made a very proud and brave decision. You've shown a great deal of courage to not tolerate unfairness and injustice of your prior employer. Congrats and good luck!

2 upvotesbabayega4 years ago

Das it mayne! The new employee being female is irrelevant in this case, but I appreciate more career related posts on this sub.

2 upvotesABC_Florida4 years ago

Many people talk about lessons learned here. But I'm missing a lesson.

The lesson here is that you can prove an idea wrong best with actions not with words.

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

Pretty late here but this happened to my father. He was a mechanic with the post office. Busted is ass for many years, worked over time, never called in sick and was by far the best mechanic they had. A spot opens up for a supervisor position and he thought he was going to get it. Instead they gave it to this black guy in the shop to fill some quota. This guy was lazy always late and had a bad attitude. Still got the job because of the color of his skin and not his work ethic.

3 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

Having trouble carrying your ginormous balls?

20 upvotesredkick4 years ago

[deleted]

20 upvotesredkick4 years ago

This might have meant something and could actually mean they had something planned for you in particular.

“It will work out for you” is a classic stalling technique. If they had other plans, they should have said so, this isn't a surprise birthday party.

3 upvotesredkick4 years ago

[deleted]

3 upvotesredkick4 years ago

Yes, it might be an awkward boss who doesn't know how to word such statements properly, only OP can be the judge on that. As always, it's not about the words, it's about how it's said.

However, it worked out great for OP in the end, since getting a new job is always a better way to improve the career instead of moving up inside a company.

2 upvotescover204 years ago

I thought OP played it beautifully. When he quit, they could have persuaded him to come back with a better offer.

Thanks for shilling for management though.

2 upvotes8thhenry4 years ago

Well done. Let them have their quota queen.

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

This shit happens all the time.

When it happened to me about 20 years ago the girl quit after a couple weeks. She thought it was hard and didn't like waking up early, etc.

You were right to tell them to fuck off (figuratively). I never got the chance because they actually fired me to give her my job.

Then she quit because she didn't like doing what I did really well. She couldn't even do the job anyway. It regularly involved lifting over 100 pounds and sometimes 300 pounds and handling and firing a shotgun. (I was a deckhand on a Halibut Charter boat in Alaska)

Of course, there's not law broken if a man is fired so they can hire a woman.

2 upvotesrenegade4 years ago

Does it occur to anyone that OP may have been a bad employee? I have a lot of people working for me can easily read his account as self justification combined with a tactical heave-ho from the company we call it "managing out", make them leave while thinking it was their idea. Someone who reacts like this I'd probably want gone.

0 upvoteswheyapartment4 years ago

At first I disagreed with you, but now that I think about it, you're right.

Must be the dunning kruger effect at work. Everyone thinks they outperform their fellow employees. I'm willing to bet that OP is one of those guys who dicks around on the job all day and assumes he's better than the guys who finish their work quietly and diligently.

1 upvotesAzureCuzYeah4 years ago

Good for you bro. Your balls are heavy.

1 upvotesMightyTaint4 years ago

That was his first lesson to the new hire. Have huge balls and walk if treated like shit.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

shit dude, you have it worse off than me, although I too have a situation where everyone like the girl more and will do anything to help and guide her into new position.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

Congrats to you man. I'm in a similar position to you. Been at the same employer for years now. I am over-worked and I outperform every other person in my position. I asked for a raise the other day, and my boss came up with some bullshit excuse why he couldn't give me it. In the end, I understood the reality of the situation-I'm easily replaceable.. Why would he pay me more when he can just hire a new guy to do the same thing for less?

I wish I had the balls to walk out like you did. If I didn't have plans of moving within the next 2 months and needed to keep my job until then, I would've done it. Kudos.

1 upvotesMightyTaint4 years ago

If I didn't have plans of moving within the next 2 months and needed to keep my job until then, I would've done it.

Well of course you should stay. OP was wise to walk because otherwise he would've been being taken advantage of from here on out; IE for years and years or as long as he stayed with the current employer.

If you have an exit plan already in place, follow through with it regardless of insult. It's just in your best interests.

1 upvotesn8dawwg4 years ago

Good fucking job OP. I hooe you can take some of the business away from your old job.

1 upvotesBlackHeart894 years ago

They were full of shit. They couldn't have simply placed her in your old position and given you the title???

1 upvoteschances_are_ur_a_fag4 years ago

I thought only govt agencies had the "quota".. regardless, good for you, fuck those people.

2 upvotesKeithStone30rack4 years ago

The quotas are from government agencies and extends to the bidding process. "You must have x number of bids from women owned construction firms, or x% of minorities in your labor force"

1 upvotesInscrutablePUA4 years ago

Initially I was depressed reading your post thinking "this guy busted his ass and got fucked in the end".

Once I saw the word "quit" my spirits rose immediately. Good on you!

1 upvotesgrewapair4 years ago

This is a good example of why you don't want to work for a company that enforces quotas.

It's just one more obstacle in your path.

1 upvotesjdgalt4 years ago

This is poetic justice. (You could sue for discrimination, but letting the result stand is better revenge anyway.)

1 upvotesThrowingMyslfOutther4 years ago

Diversity, the new Affirmative Action

1 upvotesSwanksterino4 years ago

Excellent, I swear to god, management seems to think the only job that requires skill is their's. I've run into this 'just put anyone in tjere a monkey could do it attitude' alot. It usually spells trouble, cause they save money on pay, but then have to wait out the learning curve. I hope they learned a lesson.

1 upvotesScreambloodyleprosy4 years ago

I done the same fucking thing. I was passed over by females who had never worked in my area and were hired as unit supervisors and team leaders all while more experienced people were passed up.

Told them to go fuck themselves and everyone they had hired above me quit within 2 weeks.

0 upvotesadeline8824 years ago

uhh... this story is bullshit, they wouldn't tell you that you hadn't been hired because you weren't a woman... fucking sex discrimination lawsuit waiting to happen... quit your bullshit...

9 upvotesCowardlyPetrov4 years ago

Some guys do make the mistake of being honest and some guys aren't backstabbing cunts. One of my old bosses use to tell me truths like that because we were both RP guys and I wouldn't fucking abuse him for it. I would just use the information to my benefit. Just like the OP used that information for his decision.

3 upvotescover204 years ago

If he got those great reviews and perfect scores, he reasonably asked what the hell had happened. Off the record it's reasonable to think he was told this.

0 upvotessteelerfaninperu4 years ago

Actually, there's no sex discrimination possible in this case.

OP was already gainfully employed by the company. The company had a new position open. They are under zero obligation to give that job to OP because OP already has one.

Now, if OP and Miss Ovaries were both being interviewed for the opening, and both were complete strangers, and they picked the chick simply for diversity reasons despite her being less qualified, then YES you'd have a case.

2 upvotesdivorcedbp4 years ago

I don't know about that - it's probably quite a bit more subtle than that. You could easily make a case for a hostile work environment.

As a thought experiment, would you feel the same if the genders were reversed? To be clear, I think the whole thing is bullshit, but if we have a system, we need to fairly apply the rules to everybody.

The only way to defeat these people is to hold them to the same standards that they impose on us.

1 upvotessteelerfaninperu4 years ago

I would absolutely feel the same way in the reverse situation.

The bottom line is that quotas are bullshit, but IMO it's not illegal to have them. I'm a firm believer in the free market. If a company decides to pass on a talented employee for someone else, just because that someone else is black or has a vagina or whatever, then fine. Let them.

If the decision was truly wrong then they will pay for it. In this case, the more talented worker left, and will make another company more successful. And the new person they hired will probably fuck up, costing them money.

What I hope for in an ideal world is that people can have whatever policies they desire and the free market will tell them if they are right or not.

1 upvotesdivorcedbp4 years ago

Despite the fact that it may not seem like it, I don't think I could agree with you more. My personal opinion is that if I run a business the decision around who works for me is entirely mine - if I don't like the Irish, great, I don't hire the Irish and I eventually go bankrupt because I have stupid and irrational prejudices.

My point was that there is a set of people who have used the coercive power of government to create a system under which they know the honorable nature of men will not cause them to retaliate in kind. My reaction when being unfairly and grossly manipulated is to check out and start holding my oppressors to the same standard that they hold me.

1 upvotesyummyluckycharms4 years ago

Depends on the country.

In canada, many companies are required by law to give the job to people from preferred categories (anyone who isnt a white male) if they are equally qualified. The problem is - the definition of equally qualifed isnt set in stone.

You would basically need to video and audio tape the boss stating that he hired the woman, because she is a woman, and even though she wasnt qualified at all. Good luck in getting that.

1 upvotesTerriChris4 years ago

First thing. You are brave and great job sending the right message. Second, do not quit a job unless you have a job offer.

2 upvotescover204 years ago

Your second point is generally right. But here he wanted to avoid training the woman who was hired instead of him. Since he had the confidence he could get another job, he was quite right here.

3 upvotesNickCiufi4 years ago

You can also ensure your freedom to quit by having a minimum of six months' salary saved. Some serious gender discrimination nonsense went down between two team members at my last job, and I was able to quickly cut ties and move on before taking the time to line something else up because of savings.

95% of people in the US plan their finances 2 paychecks in advance. That's the kind of thinking that will cripple your options and force you to find another gig before quitting.

1 upvotesdivorcedbp4 years ago

If they directly told you that the only reason you didn't get the job is due to the fact that you're not female, I sense the opportunity for some quality black knighting.

I would see if you can find an employment lawyer willing to do a free consultation. It would appear that they've violated the equal employment opportunity act. Imagine if instead of what you heard, they'd said (to her) "We're sorry, we like you and think you're qualified for the job, but we have to offer it to a man."

1 upvoteschrisindub4 years ago

This company sucks. They should have hired women in entry level positions years ago, and then gradually promoted one who was good at her job.

You can't just hire someone for management and bypass everyone with loyalty and experience.

I bet you weren't the only one pissed off by that dick move of theirs.

0 upvotestyrroi4 years ago

Easy to do if you don't have to support a family.

-8 upvotesEightyTimes4 years ago

I don't know why everybody's praising you. You sound like a whiny bitch who can't take responsibility.

Your bosses SAID it was a minority quota thing. What has RP taught you about what people SAY? Look at what people DO, not what they SAY. Not just women, all humans.

They could have promoted you and hired her in your place. They could have hired her in the damn mail room. They didn't.

It's not because their hands were tied, it's because they DIDN'T WANT TO PROMOTE YOU.

It could be for any number of reasons you haven't picked up on.

  • You made yourself inexpendable in your current position.
  • New job required skills you just don't 'get'
  • Promotion means more interaction with management, and management doesn't like your personality
  • They required someone with better interpersonal skills, and not just technical skills
  • She proved her value OUTSIDE the workplace (made friends with the manager specifically to get the promotion) while you didn't.

When it comes down to it, it sounds to me like you're just not politically savvy enough to negotiate, leverage, and maneuver through social situations.

They said it was a quota thing, in reality it was that she had more cunning than you and you lost. You can't just "work hard" "get every answer right" and expect a promotion. You've gotta guarantee that shit.

I expect you to do better next time.

9 upvotesyummyluckycharms4 years ago

You seem to be forgetting that this guy was picked up by a rival company in less than 7 days. This probably means that he was able to by-pass the not only the applicant tracking system, but also the HR department.

That sounds like someone who has excellent interpersonal and technical skills, and definitely someone who could maneuver through social situations

-1 upvotesEightyTimes4 years ago

It just means that the other company will do the same thing at some point. Who's he going to blame then?

2 upvotesyummyluckycharms4 years ago

What makes you say that?

Not all companies wish to commit suicide. Considering how quickly he was snatched up, I suspect that this company appreciates and values talent - not politically correct nonsense.

0 upvotesEightyTimes4 years ago

You get hired by how good you are on paper. You get promoted based on real skillsets and usefulness. This chick looked better on paper than this guy did in practice. Simple shit. To the new job, he also looked good on paper and he got hired.

This guy's just doing the same fucking victimization song-and-dance that feminists do. I thought we were above circlejerking about what a cruel and aweful place the workforce is for men. RP's about owning your shit. So own it.

He didn't get promoted because the he didn't do enough to get promoted, he assumed the job was in the bag , He didn't see past his employers plausible deniability play about "quotas", didn't walk into their office prepared enough to renegotiate, he obviously had no foresight... it's his fault. Bottom line.

2 upvotesyummyluckycharms4 years ago

Again, you are forgetting one thing. This chick was hired brand new - the guys bosses had no idea how she was going to perform. Furthermore, if your theory was true - she would be let go as she needed training.

Also

A week or so went by and they had me take written tests to see how well I knew everything incumbent to the job, I passed every single test without getting single answer wrong. This job was mine. I busted my ass.

This doesn't sound like someone who didn't do enough to get promoted.

Again, the modern corporate office isnt a meritocracy. There are times when bad people get promoted when they shouldnt and good people dont get promoted when they should. More often than not, like promotes like - which is why if your boss doesnt feel super about you, its best to pack your bags and leave to another company.

1 upvotesPhilhelm4 years ago

The problem is that after being passed over for the position, he was then instructed to train her.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

She had more cunning that him but she needed to be trained by him?

0 upvoteswatersign4 years ago

props for quitting..that is a ballsy move

0 upvotesUzairDjillaliYahud4 years ago

wow respect that you actually got the balls to quit. this is just insane.

0 upvotesRaigek4 years ago

Sure buddy, anything you want to know.

You could also like, read books on Marxism. Just like I read stuff about Liberalism. It's good to know what you like and what you dislike.

-3 upvotesprivated1ck4 years ago

Did you do the classy thing and train your replacement during your two weeks' notice?

In an industry where everyone talks to everyone, staying classy is vital to your career future.

-3 upvotesrenegade4 years ago

Just WTF does this have to do with RP?

And if she had been black would you have been equally incensed? What exactly is your point here?

-3 upvotesjohnnight4 years ago

I am not impressed. You did not act Machiavellian.

-5 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

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