The trick to starting random conversations is to simply let people in to your interior monologue.
I NEVER think in terms of "starting conversations," but if you hung out with me for a day you would say "wow, that guy starts conversations with everyone he sees!"
It is because I am not trying to start conversations. Rather, I am simply aware that I am a good person, and a smart and social guy – and therefore I am entitled to enlighten other people with a thought or two from my interior monologue.
When I see a person walking a dog that I think is cute, there is no thinking "should I say something to this person?" because I am already telling them that their dog is cute.
When I see an attractive woman in the bookstore, there is no questioning to myself whether or not I should talk to her, because by that time I am already telling her not to buy that Dave Eggers book because Dave Eggers is a terrible writer and she will not benefit from her purchase.
I think genuine self-knowledge and self-awareness goes a long way towards achieving this state of Omni-Talkativeness. When I looked deep inside myself and searched my motives, I was a little surprised by the fact that inside, I am a genuinely good person who genuinely wants the best for people.
Society implants moral self-doubt within us. Society teaches us that "evil lurks in the hearts of men." That's why I was surprised when I looked deep inside myself and found... no evil. No malice. Only a desire to do good.
Society has lied to you – it has lied to you about who other people are, and it has lied to you about who you are. Chances are that you hold a few negative beliefs about yourself. Maybe you secretly believe that you're "selfish," or "bad."
But look within. Seriously, look. Do you want to kill anyone? Do you want to hurt anyone? Do you want to make anyone cry?
No? Well, then you are definitely not a bad person.
Keep looking within. Do you have a desire to help your friends achieve their dreams and live dope lives? Do you have a desire to give sexual pleasure to women you are attracted to? Do you have a desire to become the best version of yourself, and to help your fellow man become the best version of himself?
If you answered "Yes" to these questions, then I've got news for you, motherfucker: You're a good person. Not only that, you are a fucking insanely good person. Most people never ask themselves these questions, so they spend their whole lives wondering if they are a good person or not. But if you go inside and ask yourself these questions, you just might realize that you know you are a good person. And once you've got that level of self-knowledge, no one can take it away from you.
If a person assumes I have ill intent, I am not upset: they are simply wrong. I do not have ill intent. Because I have looked inside myself and realized that actually I have only good intent.
With that knowledge embedded deep within my "frame," there is no part of me that "hesitates" before talking to someone. Since I know on the deepest level that I am a genuinely good guy who wants the best for people, there is no reason to even THINK of THE CONCEPT of asking myself if I should interact with someone – because by that time, I am already interacting.
When you have this kind of positive self-image on a moral level, talking to other people is the easiest shit ever. Your confidence is absolute, because you are simply aware that there are only two possible outcomes to each interaction, both of which are positive:
- You have a fun chat and never talk to the person again.
- You have a fun chat and wind up developing a relationship with the person and getting the opportunity to make their lives more awesome.
There is simply no negative scenario that can occur.
TBH bros, I think that talking about "avoiding approach anxiety" is completely missing the point. That's like trying to put a band-aid on top of a cancerous tumor (the tumor = the subconscious belief that you do not deserve to talk to people, which stems from the subconscious desire to TAKE something from people instead of GIVE them something).
You must travel deep inside yourself and flip an invisible switch.
You are a person who engages in interactions. The reason you are not "social" is this: In your interactions, you have been focused on how you can benefit from the interactions you engage in.
Here is the switch you must flip: To become "social," you must stop thinking in terms of taking and start thinking in terms of giving. You must start thinking in terms of how the other person can benefit from interacting with you. (Trust me, that's the only thing they're thinking about anyway. Once you're thinking about that too, then you're both on the same page.)
The only questions you should be asking yourself: What do I have to offer this person? What do I have to give? (Friendship? Good cheer? The D?) How can I make their lives more awesome?
When you meet women, often the answer to these questions is obvious: the most effective way you can make their lives more awesome is to give them the D that they thirst for so passionately. When you meet men, the answer is often less obvious – sometimes you can give them knowledge, sometimes you can teach them a skill, other times you can just give them the gift of a few light-hearted observations on whatever is happening.
For me, attaining the state of Omni-Talkativeness is a moral journey that is 100% internal.
Very well said. I behave exactly the same as you although I was never able to put it into words like this. And this exactly is how RP "guides" should be written, not the shitty PUA "fake it til you make it".
Great stuff OP, keep it coming.
I agree, best post I've seen here for a long while. To take your opinion a step further, I think that TRP has gotten caught up in a few clichés which we like to fall back to without really thinking of alternatives. With confidence, the default answer is "go lift." But really, talking to everyone you meet is going to do infinitely more for your confidence! Lifting is still very, very valuable, but it's advice like this which I think we need to keep in mind as well.
Lifting is good because it can help take your interactions to the next level. If you're talking to a woman you just met, lets face it, she probably wont be hanging onto your every word. If you give her something to look at when her gaze leaves yours - veiny arms, broad shoulders, clear skin, fresh haircut, etc, she'll size you up. If not? Who knows what she'll be looking at when she's not looking directly into your eyes.
I get swolested often by strangers, and i dont even wear stylish/form-fitting clothing.
"Go lift" is lazy advice but also very helpful.
Not to mention so many people out there are only interested in the physical. By lifting, which is a very easy thing to get started in, you're setting your SMV that high already. The moral game we are talking about is much more complex, a higher level of personal change than simply picking up some iron.
Sick phrase bro! It is actually very accurate... tho if I were being anal I'd say Moral INNER Game
Depends on your upbringing, I suppose. I came from a disadvantaged background, yet was one of the smartest in my grade. But I relied on those "smarts" too much, and on my physique/fitness too little, to where i neglected my own physical health in favor of trying to win favor, praise, etc for my smarts. When it came time to pick women, I, naturally, went after ones I was the most mentally attracted too...Yeah, you read that right. Mentally attracted to.
Having said all that, its made a huge "inner" difference for me to be treated differently, not based on my "inner" game, but outer. Women don't know about your degrees, can't hear your celebrity impressions, can't be negged from 15 feet away in a loud, crowded gym. But they do stare. They do come post-up in front of me while I'm benching to do one-arm dumbbell rows with their ass facing me. 6 open benches, but they have to use that one, right? Never happened before when I was a skinny-fat dork wearing white t-shirts to the gym.
Confidence is good. Confirmation is better. "Trust, but Verify" as Reagan put it. (Though I do acknowledge that the parallels between verification and validation are a bit too close for comfort)
As in, lifting is a good launching point for getting and holding attention. This inner moral game, confidence per say, is a fine tuning of your personality and requires shifting how you think about yourself. This is often more difficult for people than throwing up some weight.
Id say fake it until you make it is a good start. I have social anxiety like a mother fucker and always hated talking to people. But one day i decided I needed to work on it, so i started pretended to be interested in mundane conversations. Eventually I started to actually care and my anxiety has gotten way better, plus now my relationships have grown to the point where I actually care what people have to say.
Perhaps it's better to call 'fake it till you make it' what it really is: practice.
That's been the key for me. It matters to them, so it should matter to you if you have any empathy. Yeah, it's an old lady bitching about how they bagged her groceries, but empathy is a skill to train, just like casual conversatoin.
This. Do not fake it. The world will call you out.
I kept this is outlook tonight while I was out. But man I've never suffered so much rejection and resistance. I don't get it...I guess bars/clubs just aren't a good place to approach. I tried making conversation with a couple girls who a mutual friend introduced me to and genuine conversation was even shut down. Granted I did take a girls water from her hand and had a sip but as to how that was so offensive by a water jug full of free cups I don't get. They couldn't have fun or make eye contact.
I get it and I have had my successes, am known as a guy who gets too many girls amongst people I know but this nighttime game is the worst. I feel like the most repulsive being by the end of the night.
Bruh... read what you wrote again... you straight up took a girl's drink from her hand when you could have gotten a different cup right next to you.
Talking stuff out of people's hands isn't exactly kosher, bruh.
I guess not, I saw it as playful teasing. My friend had already subtly introduced me as very low status and they were giving me such a cold shoulder it seemed like a conversation starter.
I think part of my issue is restraint though. I have massive metaphorical balls, but I fear how others may react so I end up over restricting myself. I'm at my best when relaxed and impulsive, I just don't have time then to calculate someone else's perspective and I hate social mores, despise them so much.
I'm in Vegas right now, and just posed this exact situation you are in. RPmatrix, a solid guy, gave me a response that shifted my understanding of clubgame.
Check my post history, because my comment with the link in it got auto-deleted. The comment that starts with "I just finished No More...."
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It hit me later that my friend introduced me as "a really good guy" in a manner that sounded like he was trying to sell me. I didn't think about that but it seems more like a big shit test I failed by just standing there instead of "yeah I can also heal the sick". I imagine that immediately put me at a very low appearing SMV from the start.
"Here is my friend, he's single and can't find a woman but he's a really nice guy so you should consider him". --Lady boner killer 3000
"I did take a girls water from her hand and had a sip" - dude, that is very offensive and the only reason you even did it is because it is a cocky move because it is offensive. However, the move is too impersonal and not fun enough and too offensive so you got shot down.
"genuine conversation was even shut down" - girls don't give a shit about genuine conversation in night game. Girls are weird. They are fundamentally not independent so whatever the mood of the environment is, they will take that into the very fibre of their being. Bars and clubs are about about over the top fun and rushes of adrenaline and your conversation has to be along that vein.
Jesus fucking Christ this is solid gold for me. I won't dwell on it for long, but I wish to know why society has programed us to hate ourselves.
The more self-doubt you implant in the minds of your subjects, the less likely they are to take your power away from you.
We all know that media programs peoples brains with BP messaging. In this post, I am pointing out that a core component of this BP messaging is moral self-doubt. I believe this may just be the CORE of the Blue Pill: the belief that men are not morally good people, so therefore you, as a man, are not morally good.
A big part of RP for me was leaving the false Blue Pill matrix of morality. However, since RP is amoral, morality is not a popular subject on here.
When I really and truly understood that I am actually morally good according to my personal, reality-based understanding of morality, I immediately became talkative as fuck.
When you TRULY KNOW that your sole priorities are:
..then the VERY IDEA of doubting yourself becomes completely nonsensical.
You, kind stranger, have given me all the wisdom I could ever hope for. You dangerously beautiful bastard---Thank you! I shall master this and pass the torch of wisdom to good people, until the day I die..
:)
Just because RP is amoral does not mean that men with RP knowledge are amoral.
I have programming experience, so i am aware of how HTML works. This knowledge is not morally good or bad. It is just knowledge. My knowledge of HTML is amoral.
Similarly, I have sexual experience and RP knowledge, so I am aware of how the sexual marketplace works. This knowledge is not morally good or bad. It is just knowledge. And, like my knowledge of HTML, my knowledge of SMP dynamics is amoral.
However, I choose to do morally good things with my amoral knowledge. I do not use my amoral RP knowledge to break up marriages even though fucking married women is the easiest shit ever. I do not use my amoral HTML knowledge to create phishing schemes even though it would also be easy.
TRP and HTML are just information. Information is amoral. Its what you choose to do with that information that determines whether you are acting in accordance with your own personal ideas of right and wrong.
Ultimately, this post is only useful if it helps men make a positive moral self-assessment. Once men are equipped with the KNOWLEDGE – not just the belief – that they only want the best for themselves and others, the world is their oyster.
And the only way to acquire that knowledge is through introspection.
Introspection is not usually recommended to men who seek to increase their sociability. In this post I am suggesting that, while introspection is not the EASIEST or QUICKEST route to sociability, it is ultimately the MOST EFFECTIVE route.
EDITED: Yes, I think I'm feeling your words as you intend them. I need to improve my communication skills at work and socially (because I have value, and I ought to share my valuable knowledge and kindness). I can see that it is essential for me to regain general self-acceptance and purge my belief in original sin. This will be a way to simultaneously achieve my goals and enhance the lives of those I encounter. I am 99.9% sure I get your intentions..much appreciated.
Damn, that might be the ABSOLUTE CENTER of all the BP bullshit.
Godspeed my friend.
I submit to you a flipped script on original sin.
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Thanks dude, I appreciate that. Can't post my paypal because the Thot Police will come and take all my hoes. But thank you.
I've always believed that the moral self doubt in men came from the schools. You're taught to always obey the teachers above you, any questions or doubts about their orders are punished as 'Talking Back'. Then these beliefs start to form in your mind...
Exactly.
Given that the idea of morality permeates every part of culture, I believe that every single person makes a moral self-assessment, whether consciously or unconsciously... the idea of morality is simply too all-pervasive for people to not internalize. (Read this book for one explanation of how morality is integral to human consciousness.)
In this post, I hope to explain a method that men can use to become conscious of the moral self-assessments they've already made. I also hope to provide them with a new moral framework to understand that their moral self-assessments are not necessarily accurate, especially if they were made unconsciously.
Also almost all teachers in my life were women or severe BP men, therefore the concept of the male gender as being morally corrupt and damaged was implicit gospel.
UNBELIEVABLY poetic turn of phrase.
BP men have internalized feminist shaming tactics so deeply that it is part of the frame around everything they say.
This is amazingly true. I used to work for a guy who would bitch at me for being self centered. Now I am working a career that is infinitely better than the one I was looking at working for him.
That guy has clearly never read the works of Ivan Pavlov or Dale Carnegie. Negative reinforcement simply does not work.
If the guy was smart and wanted to make money, he would have given you slightly-randomized rewards instead of systematic punishments.
For all that guys fake wannabe alpha assholery, he taught me invaluable lessons on how to internalize self respect and ultimately dump religion as a crutch. This was what I learned not from being mentored by him, but by being the subject of a constant barrage of insults and constantly being told to turn to jesus.
what you say is so true I make friendships easily and usually is by expressing my thought. I just met a lawyer the other day and the opening lune was so you were playing tennis today. he goes on and tells me about the tournament he's in talks about his job we talk about politics and finally religion. definitely the type of people I like to meet
I'm sure I read it here, but I remember reading that psychological manipulation is far more effective than physical manipulation. Everyone does it, if they want you to be someone that is conducive to their needs. People who are really nice to you and start asking you to do things seems harmless if you're a nice guy, but in reality they are royally fucking you in your mind.
I fucking hate people sometimes man. I just want to respect everyone but there have been far too many times when I realize how low they can be.
People are shitheads. The trick is to accept it, and love them anyway.
Instead of being mad that they are such limited creatures, accept their limitations (mental, physical etc). Understand that they are only shitheads because they are ASLEEP. As a member of TRP, you are way more awake than they are. You are simply more aware of deeper forces, and more willing to accept and understand the implications of those forces.
A wild shithead appears. Do you turn up your nose, run away, and get mad? Or do you accept their limitations and treat them with fond paternal affection?
Apparently not that awake. I was only aware I was being used when I was told. Granted, it was in a work environment. Coworkers get swamped all the time and ask me to do it for them like it's my job. I say yes because I'm part of the team. But it's not a team at all. It's just a bunch of assholes looking out for themselves. I've always wondered why the office is in shambles, but I guess I know now.
Oh well. Expectation is the mother of disappointment.
Absolutely amazing shit. Like another poster below, I've been into religion for a long time, specifically Christian religion, and as much credit as some guys give Christianity for being red pill, it's not. Like any religion formed in an ancient human social system, it contains bits of everything. Not that I am against the religion, but I would recommend extreme caution with the concepts contained therein, especially with regard to Christianity, even including the more traditional varieties.
This line speaks volumes, well said. Great post btw, you put a lot of 'things' into words much more clear than I have been able to do.
This has greatly enlightened me. Thank you.
What u talkin about brah, getting money and fucking bitches is as moral as it gets bro! Wooh!
Getting money and fucking bitches absolutely does have a place in my moral framework. I completely forgot to mention my golden rule..
Do unto others as you would have them do unto your dick.
(That is why I am always nice to people, and also why I tend to pick them up and vigorously shake them up and down like a human shakeweight)
It keeps the hole inside you empty.
It creates a good consumer, but a wounded person. It's what advertising and mainstream media has done to us and the generation before us. And most of us unknowingly pass that emptiness around to everyone we meet, perpetuating the consumer culture we live in.
Instead of creating culture, we consume it. Terence McKenna talks about this a lot.
If you give constantly, some people can and will take advantage of you. There are a few loops and holes here but the gist of what this guy's is saying is that YOU FUCKING DESERVE to be social and the most effective way to start is by offering these tokens/words here and there even when you don't get anything initially.
A friend of mine just moved here and he now owns his own business 40k with two employees, run completely by word of mouth. He spends 4 to 5 days a week out on yachts and fishing or at the club with clients who buy everything and introduce him to more.
But it all started with a small bullshit conversation about some guys boat and how it needed to be tied up better and he was glad to do it for free. Took 20 mins.
Yep--I've experienced a shit ton of that. Thanks for the reminder. Now, to achieve balance (giving my value without it being taken).
Yeah... I hope that the frame around my post is always to give on your terms, not theirs.. Otherwise you're being taken from.
Always strive to be the causal agent in all your interactions.
Which is impossible to not be once you have complete vision of your inner workings. Someone tries to do something you don't want? Accepting won't even enter your mind once you've reached the state of complete self-awareness.
Perhaps in the past it was necessary, however we evolve and thankfully our thinking is evolving as well.
This is subtle, but helpful for my inner peace. Truth is, we (or at least, I) don't know how the mythology came to be--but it might have been a necessary component of evolution or survival. I am ok with not knowing how or why. Either way, it's refreshing and energizing to unplug a bit more today..
Yep, ideas are like genes (google meme). A society that contains a meme "original sin" will have an easy time instilling a useful moral code into its members, thereby out-competing a society that doesn't have this meme. It's exactly like evolution.
If ur selling shoes that "make you sexy" you better not let people know that they are already sexy
Its cultural programming, its everywhere. The frames set around every action you take are always don't do this, don't do that or you are a bad person etc.
Any social animal requires a mechanism to keep the beta's desires in check in order to protect the Alpha's property from being spoiled. Body language is the number one beta identifier out there, so keeping the betas in ho check is the best manner of making them unapproachable.
Well feminism "teaches" men not to be evil privileged rapists, so that might have something to do with it.
I'm going to devil's advocate this for the benefit of myself and possibly others like me: I'm a fucking asshole. I am selfish. I may not actively wish harm on people, but generally I want to get mine and otherwise be left the fuck alone. I hate children. I hate people. I despise women. I operate on a routine that consists of work, eat, lift, fuck, that doesn't include many people in it because people tend to expect things of you and create drama. I'm jovial and kind and have a quick wit when I do go out and I do well with women when I do engage but I don't include people in my "inner monologue" because quite frankly it would shock people. I'm not a "good" person. Not everyone is.
To be honest, this is still an excellent comment. It is an excellent comment because you HAVE done the introspection that my post is recommending – but when you looked inside yourself, you found something different.
The point is that you are STILL ENLIGHTENED because you have deep self-knowledge. Since you and I are different, we have different self-knowledge... But we both still have it.
I am a good person. I know this. You are telling me that you are not a good person. To which I say: that is okay, because at least you know it.
I think that's fair. It's just important for people to know that it is possible to encounter, or be, the flip side of the same coin. Yin and yang and all that happy horse shit. I tend to take different approaches with it. You might save the girl from the Dave Eggers novel by saying he's not a good writer and don't waste your time. I'd be more prone to "You actually read that dogshit? Yeah, well, I guess you seem like the type." Your approach will certainly net more positive interaction, but I'll waste less time with small talk on girls I'm not going to fuck anyway.
Yep, look at my submission history for instance.
If people knew my internal monologue they'd run the other way.
Luckily you subtlely hint at it with your name. Apt.
I feel if we ever met in person, we would get along very, very well.
If we met in person, you'd never know any of my real views.
Good and bad are dualities. Only people close to the truth know what good and bad mean.
The loveable rogueish misanthrope and the cheery good guy are like twins separated at birth, if you ask me. Both can "flip the switch" as OP called it, and give of themselves socially instead of cowering and hiding.
The misanthrope's contribution is not one of a small relative value, either. They are quite each other's equal, those two - the misanthrope with his sardonic wit and gloom will reach the hearts of many who don't respond too well to the "good guy", due to lots of inner pain or mistrust. Give em' the misanthrope any day, they are in love with him and revel in that shared "misery", which is yet so true to life that the line between joy and suffering completely disappears. Only the intensity of it remains, and people's life gains momentum by it. One of the greatest gifts that can be given.
I seem to exist on a scale where I slide between this kind of misanthropy and what OP described. I found there comes a point where you already know exactly what people are going to say, how they're going to respond negatively to your well thought out plans and ideas, and even if you had the time to explain it to them they would never understand.
You can either waste your time and get mad trying, let their bullshit get under your skin, or just shut them out completely, which basically leads to misanthropy. I think to slide to OP's end of the scale I either need to be fucked up or find a truly special soul, which does happen now and then. A charles Bukowski quote; sometimes I have to actively make sure I don't get stuck at that end.
EDIT: I should probably add that in certain situations e.g. business etc. I can break out the Gervaisian baby-talk when I have something to gain by playing puppet master, but day to day people are just so fucking draining to me.
That's pretty much how I was. Had to be drunk to tolerate people. I could hold inhuman amounts of alcohol. Would ride out, get tanked, fuck some slut, ride home. Then someone stole my bike and I developed epilepsy and can't drink anymore so now I just yell at people and fuck weird chicks that have a taste for my brand of bullshit.
Ditto on the inhuman amounts of alcohol. I think the next stage of my development is probably going to involve learning to enjoy fucking with people. That way I'll be in master of puppets mode full time and won't have to drink so much. I'd love to hear more on your thoughts about this stuff.
I miss drinking to be honest. It's easier to just get tanked, it let's me get over just how much people piss me off. It really is taxing to be angry all the time, fucking with people ends up being the best tertiary outlet to lifting and drinking. I enjoy rustling jimmies far too much. This whole Jenner thing has given me endless ammo. Just refusing to call him anything but Bruce is enough to make most people crazy. I tell them that if Bruce is a woman then I identify as an Inuit lesbian single mother and they have to address me as such because apparently facts and reality aren't the basis by which we decide these things anymore. Whatever gets peoples' engines going I just take it and run with it.
That is hilarious. I'm still testing the waters with this. A lot of people on my facebook for example from uni are semi-sjw types so I'm not sure how bad sharing my views publicly could get for me.
Shiva still creates value, he just does it by destroying the inferior so that the superior may take its place.
You're good, your way is just different.
No shit. Your on the red pill. No one here is.
That's a matter of relativity and opinion. I was merely saying OP's post was a little too "feel good" and optimistically charged to be in sync with many peoples' reality. I agree, most people on here would not likely relate to his attitude or perspective. At least 100 others, apparently.
Everyone here is a terrible person. That's all I'm saying. Nothing more.
What you need to do is realize that there is no such thing as right and wrong anyway. Right and wrong are human feelings you can choose to disregard anytime. Do not be so hard on yourself if your feelings don't align with society's definition of right.
More importantly to really accept people you have to realize the fact that there is no such thing as free will. There is no extra part of you that makes you different from that kids had you been put in his shoes. This generates a profound sense of empathy with everyone, in fact with all of existence. Look up delusion of free will by Sam Harris if this topic interests you.
It's easier when you are giving because that signals authority.
Men love down.
Women charm and manipulate while looking up.
If the other person responds negatively they break the No Charm, No Love rule and you don't continue.
Love is always from above... the Beta has trouble imagining this truth and so he enters the situation in a needy condition.
Always enter all conversations from above... but once the conversation progresses you must allow a give and take. Even in the Captain (60%) to Firstmate (40%) power relationship you are still giving away 40% of the control. Allow yourself to flow and listen carefully to what the other person says.
Have a fun attitude.
And I agree in the "internal dialogue" concept. Grab things that are on your mind and just bring others into your thinking.
Thanks for blessing this thread with knowledge G.
You are spot on. The key to sexual success is to enter interactions from above. The easiest way to do this is to begin each interaction with a value judgement.
"Cute dog."
"Whoa, careful, don't buy that Dave Eggers book – he sucks!"
When you make a value judgement, you are positioning yourself as the arbiter, the decider, the judge of what is valuable and what is not. Making value judgements is perhaps the most Alpha/"above" thing you can do.
Early PUAs grasped this intuitively, which is why they invented the concept of "negging" – passing negative value judgements on people you are interacting with to demonstrate your aboveness.
However, negging is extremely unsubtle. It is a very effective alpha behavior, but it is simply not a behavior that is applicable to all contexts. Especially in initial interactions with women, negging can be like bringing a gun to a knife fight... Simple overkill.
The alpha behavior that IS applicable in all contexts is passing value judgements, and these can be positive or negative.
Even if I am COMPLIMENTING a woman, that compliment can still be alpha as fuck. Its all in the tone, delivery, and context:
Negging works great. It is a very effective form of value judgement. What I am saying is that making value judgements is INHERENTLY alpha, and negging is just one particularly effective example of this fact.
For those interested in NLP, the key to passing value judgements is using lots of modal operators... Definitive words like "is" or "can." These words define the boundaries of your mental map, and they have the potential to signal the vastness and richness of your particular map
Another point...
Always be sure to apply enough pressure to actually get a response.
I was at the bar last night and I'd just got there and wasn't really into my full social mode yet and some girl was wearing a shirt with the name from where I grew up. I was very lazy about getting her attention and she either didn't sense my move or didn't want to register me.
You pretty much need to dive in... you have to force the other to register your presence.
Later that night it was fun. You have to warm up sometimes.
Excellent. What really helped me talk to anyone, anywhere, about anything was to simply lighten up. Getting lost in your thoughts and trying to wax philosophical is just so darn boring. People are much more interested in enjoying their few short moments on this planet.
I love the idea of giving value. The guy who wrote Conquer Your Campus would talk to everyone and just try to spread fun wherever he went. He called it "giving value" or "giving love." You're not out to leech value from other but to enhance and pour out value to others. This is much preferable to all parties involved. Plus the ladies have a sixth sense about them and they can instantly tell when you're a fun guy just trying to enjoy yourself or if you're a loser trying to benefit from others instead of just being cool and enjoying people's company.
Absolutely.
Every time I interact with someone, I am giving them a gift: a few precious moments of access to my interior monologue.
I do not want anything from them. Rather, I want to to give them something. I want to give them my thoughts and feelings, because I am aware that my thoughts and feelings are valuable as fuck.
When you are a man of value and you know it, all of a sudden you are morally entitled to share that value with anyone you encounter.
Yes, I've always felt this way, but I haven't talked with many people who understood my compulsion. So I felt like an alien, even though I did the work. Now, I will do the work with more joy and belief that I am doing what's right. Thanks again BurgundyCarpet!
Fuck that noise. Helping others just because they need help is a path to beta servanthood. I know that's not what you mean here. But don't pretend your expression of value isn't serving you.
DHV (Demonstrating High value) is a pickup technique that has fallen out of favor because women often interpret it as try-hard.
Mix in IDGAF and you have a more potent formula. You get the high energy of DHV, with the outcome-independence of IDGAF. You create short, stimulating interactions and walk away, leaving them hungry for more.
My friend, I used the word "entitled" but it seems like you read it as "obligated"(?)
I agree with everything you say. You are NOT obligated to help a person just cuz they need help.
However, you are ENTITLED to do anything you fucking want to.
You're right. The word 'morally' had me auto-thinking 'obligation.'
Great post by the way. It really resonates for many.
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As an agnostic existentialist....is it though? My parents pester me all the time about getting married and giving them grandkids. I tell them to fuck off because my sister gave them three already. I don't want kids and I don't need a wife because I can get pussy when I want it and the moment I can't it's time to start thinking about increasing my risk-taking hobbies because what's the point anymore? I feel like I've found a mindset that's truly confounded the upper levels of Maslow's Hierarchy pyramid.
Even if the feelings are transient, fucking a girl that you absolutely adore is the best thing I have ever experienced. There is something to be said for emotional intimacy.
Maybe some people aren't capable of that. Too dark triad-y or something. But for those of us who can experience that, it's nearly life changing.
Of course, it can also lead to pedestalization and all that Blue-Pill stuff if you don't have your head screwed on pretty tight... and I think a lot of people see this potential and immediately write it off.
You're not being a very good existentialist if you're not having kids. Having kids is the only reason you exist.
If the meaning of life has nothing to do with novelty and eureka moments, then I understand nothing at all. The question is about the depth and repetitiveness of that novelty. When something is fully searched out, it becomes boring. Some people make a point of trying to sustain the mystery, because they are powerless to seek out the truly novel.
Not really, sometimes, and occasionally.
Always willing to help a friend--or we wouldn't be friends--and it depends on the dream. Definitely, definitely, and depends on the fellow man.
I prefer morality, have great respect for discipline and control as virtues, and enjoy getting along with others. But all it takes for me to switch gears to a ruthless, amoral sociopath is for certain lines to be crossed. I can be fucking vicious, but "can be" and "am" are two very different things.
You're right. We are not inherently evil--we are inherently amoral. To understand pain, we need to experience it. We can cause incredible suffering with innocent intentions when we are too young to understand, to relate to the experiences and emotions of others. That said, we are social animals. It's healthy to interact with others, and it's not right to be afraid of it. And the more you do it, the better you get at it. Great post, OP.
You're sorta on the right track.
Most of the reason we have approach anxiety is because it is NOT normal to talk to people we don't know. That's strictly the way westerners are brought up, there's a stark difference from western beliefs and south america.
Furthermore people that talk in their internal dialogue can be annoying as fuck. I've done a lot of work on whether talking more or talking less is better and talking less seems to work much better.
The whole premise of giving value and taking, well that's completely subjective. What you may think is giving could be taking to another person. Furthermore, what we give for free is often not very valuable. What's the price of something if everyone can get it? Whats the demand of something readily available?
I work with a guy that sort of displays this, he never talks and when he is asked something you get one word answers. You'd think people would ignore him but its quite the opposite effect. People try hard to get him to talk and if he says more than two words to you, you feel great. He told me good morning a few days ago and I was kind of shocked. If I had a conversation with him tomorrow I'd feed really special.
Furthermore you will never learn from other people if you try to enlighten them with your knowledge. Let's say you're talking to a guy at a super market, you don't know but he's a CEO at a company you are interested in. You "enlighten" him with your knowledge or try to give him something and the CEO thinks you don't know what you're talking about. The whole point in talking to strangers is broaden your world view. You can't do this when you are always giving to people things they may not even want.
I talk to people because I want to learn things from them and broaden my world view. I know who I am I don't need to tell others what I already know.
I agree being a good person is paramount to improving as a person and talking to people is
This post goes far beyond mere trp principles
To be clear, i say that as a compliment
This is the type of post TRP has been missing in the past month or so. Good job, OP. I learned something valuable today.
Props!
Thanks homeslice, I appreciate u!
This shit is on the top of askreddit...
Am I in some sort of redpill twilight zone?
I can understand this attitude if you're just taking the first metaphorical steps out of your basement, or if you're massively introverted, but not otherwise. I have a friend who talks to everyone he sees, even if its just a comment. Its one thing to have a don't give a fuck attitude, but you need to balance that with society's norms to a certain extent, or you're going to end up feeling great, but being alone. Rather than talking to everyone with the attitude that you can benefit them, why not be more selective and talk to those who you really can benefit. By all means work on yourself to maximise this pool of people. Talking to everyone often comes off as needy in and of itself, regardless of what you say. I envisage you being like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W34wyKZlWQ
That's funny because I am actually like this: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S0FphcAh3T8
Is that a joke? A beta, probably homosexual man who gets amoged by a 70 year old woman?
Travolta is a god, and if you don't agree then Lord Xenu will not look kindly upon you
ĵust let them in on your interior monologue.
i like that. nice and succinct. sums up my own experience as well.
The method I noticed I use is very similar. I always look at it as, "Don't aproach someone. Just invite them into whatever it is your doing". It makes for such a seamless transition, it's like you never even started.
Standing in line at Starbucks, "Yeah, that lady needs to calm down. Her diabetes doesn't need another frap."
At a bar, "You know, I can't decide if I want to over pay for a crappy beer, or crappy vodka."
These sort of casual things will get them talking, and from there you just sort of go with the flow of conversation.
Yeah, exactly.
I'm the only guy I know who doesn't believe in the false concept of gender equality... The UTTER IRONY is that I'm also the only guy I know who truly treats men and women equally in initial interactions.
I never go out to try and meet women because I have never needed to. I meet them just living my lyfe.
And when I meet them, I usually treat them exactly like I treat dudes. I keep it 100% platonic... Eventually they get confused when they realize I don't want to fuck them cuz I'm ABOVE THEM, then they suddenly thirst for my D
When you treat a woman exactly like you treat a man (eg make it clear you DONT want to fuck them), pretty soon they start wanting you to fuck them.
Life is hilarious, bros. I dunno why TRP is true but it just is. I know this because I see it every day
Haha, well, you should know why it is true by now.
But yeah, it's a nuanced game though, but works out great, just so long as you keep some sort of sexual essence around. Else you just end up being too friendly.
But I do the same. Call chicks "bro" "dude" whatever, and treat em as equals. This opens them up and sets you out as just not another thirsty dude.
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This is getting very philosophical... I ultimately disagree with you though.
If a man is paralyzed like the dude in "the bell and the butterfly," I simply do not believe he is a morally bad person just because he is unable to do morally good things.
Similarly, if a man starts a charity under the pretense of altruism but secretly to gain status in his community and meet high-status people, he does NOT live up to my personal definition of a morally good man because he is being dishonest... No matter what the positive effects of his actions are.
If you define morality externally, based on actions, ultimately you are DEPENDENT on things you CANT CONTROL (eg the effects of your actions) in order to feel morally good and therefore good about yourself.
If you define morality INTERNALLY, based on your true inner motivations and desires, then your positive self-image depends on no one but yourself.
We can get deep into moral philosophy here, but /u/PM_ME_YO_TITS_GURLS' point is essentially this - redefining morality to boost your "positive self-image" isn't moral, it's masturbatory.
Instead of labeling ideas as masturbatory and then rejecting them, why don't you simply explain your own? I'd be interested to hear them.
P.s. you are rejecting a straw man because I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about
That would be masturbatory!
You must do the right thing for the right reason - the right way at the right time!
It requires a working model of reality and the ability to execute based upon matching of observations with that reality.
This is why I think everyone should work in some sort of customer service job, at least once in their life. Being forced to interact with people will (big surprise) teach you how to interact with people. Wait tables, work a cash register, do volunteer work, do something that involves talking to person after person after person. You can try different attitudes and personas and see what works for you and them. You can tell the same joke 1000 times and get it better and better each time. You learn that people are just as inept at interaction as you think you are because they all think the same dumb shit as you. You can see the the way they mirror your and how you mirror others. Eventually, it becomes a reflex, not something that needs rehearsing, because you already did enough rehearsing at that cash register. People are thirsty for another mind to bounce thoughts and emotions off of. You can be that person, if only for a few seconds. If you don't have that gift of gab, learn it.
Thanks for this! This is me, I've had a habit since I was 8 to think of what to say before I talk. Sometimes I don't think of stuff to say and when I start talking, I start to stutter a bit then look like a dumbass. When someone ask me a question and I answer it to quick I usually mess up words and it really annoys me that I'm like this. It usually doesn't happen if I talk slow but I also have a habit of talking quick because I love to talk to people so when anyone approaches me I'm excited to talk but I probably come off as an idiot.
but back on topic, I'm going to just talk before I even think of what to say like today I was delivering parts (work for napa delivering parts) this cute girl had pictures of the same dog I have hanging up and I was just planning on stuff to say but didn't say anything. I'm going to apply this and see how it goes, thanks!
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I have tried this. People seem to be surprised almost every time but respond rather positevely. Especially younger people beacause they have seen it on TV.
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I don't know about the rest of Eastern Europe but I've tried talking to Poles and Ukrainians. I'm from Poland myself. Of course it's easier in bigger cities like Warsaw or Cracow because of large numbers of foreign tourists so folks there are generally used to weirdness.
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I also stopped reading up to that point. I think it is kinda sad that this has so many upvotes.
Hahaha, I envy you dude. The ideas of good & evil permeate every corner of the west. It is so deeply embedded in me that I can not help but think of "good people" and "bad people." I do not think THAT part of BP will ever leave me.
This post PRESUPPOSES that there is such a thing as "good people" and "bad people," yet that is not necessarily true. In the moral framework I operate within, the idea that there are "good people" and "bad people" is a very useful abstraction. However, I do not STRIVE to be good or TRY to be good, I simply AM good.
That's all good and well, but the question I always have whenever I see this type of advice is how do you go about doing that?
My kids constantly comment on the fact that I seem to make friends everywhere and that random people seem to want to talk to me all the time. This post is exactly why: I don't give non-committal grunts to cashiers or stare at the floor while I wait in line, I talk to people, I make comments that lead to further conversation. I enjoy life and other people react to that. It really is that simple.
Great post. Although I disagree vehemently with the moralizing, getting over my introversion was just as you described, not thinking of it in terms of what does this person want to hear most but unblocking the damper on my stream of consciousness. For me projecting my inner monologue is a necessary way to process thoughts. Often I have a person in my life that I can always bounce ideas off of, which I find useful for fiction writing and philosophizing. But it's also a great way to show off your vibe and draw like-minded people to you.
One time, standing in line for a city-hopping bus, I pretty much just commented to myself about hating being early but loving the first pick of seats, and a meh looking Asian chick turned around and got all chatty. She spilled her life story and "it's complicated" bf situation (guy had obvious oneitis for another girl and she cut herself off to make him choose) and I got to smash on public transport for the first time. feelzgudmang.jpg
This post inspires me to meditate more and more to get the core of my being; to increase my self-awareness. Thanks for crafting this gold.
Probably this is gonna end up into oblivion, but here goes nothing anyways: I totally wanna feel like you do. Thing is, I made giant steps in self-development so far but this thing you mentioned is something I'm seriously struggling with. At the moment I can hardly imagine a life where I can talk to anyone without any effort...pretty ridiculous. Probably because it's mostly the first option (aka "You have a fun chat and never talk to the person again") so I barely have the drive to strike up anything nowadays. Maybe it's because the average person is interesting as a doorknob. Maybe I've got too high expectations and I'm actually like that doorknob. Maybe it's because I'm drunk and I don't even know what's going on. Whatever, you got my attention.
Hey man, I was in your position too once. I know how you can change.
The key is to lift.
"Cheerfulness is a surplus of strength" -Nietzche
When you are not very strong, you do not want to have interactions that have no ROI. There is simply no reason to. It would be illogical.
When you ARE strong, you become VERY down to have those interactions. Each individual relationship means less to you, because you have increased your ability to create new relationships. All of a sudden, having those net-zero little "fun chat" interactions becomes... fun.
You are seeking "the drive to strike anything up." You do not want to strike anything up currently, because the reward just isn't worth the energy-investment. It makes sense and it is LOGICAL.
What's NOT logical is the WAY YOU ARE ATTEMPTING TO REMEDY YOUR PROBLEM.
You are seeking an increased incentive to engage in interactions with strangers. Yet the incentive is not going to increase.
What you actually need to do is reduce the cost of engaging in interactions with strangers. The way to do this is to lift. Become strong. Once you have more energy, each interaction will require only a miniscule amount of your total energy. All of a sudden, the cost/benefit analysis will change, and you will become "social."
The key is to accept that the anti-social part of you is actually well-intentioned. That part of you is aiding your survival. You do not need to reject it. You need to honor it, and let it go. You do not need it any more.
There is another part of you, an elemental part of you that you haven't been in touch with since you were a child. That part wants to be the strongest boy on the playground. To beat all the other kids in tag. To get strong so you can smash a bully's face in.
Get in touch with that part. Do Stronglifts or Starting Strength. Become strong. When you are strong, the cost/benefit analysis of each interaction changes – suddenly, it seems weird NOT to talk to everyone.
Stop trying to increase the dividends that you receive from interactions, and START trying to reduce the cost of having these interactions.
Here's the tricky part... It is only AFTER you have reduced the costs of the interactions that you will begin to see higher dividends from your interactions, in the form of sloots swolesting you.
Cheerfulness is a surplus of strength.
In order to get what you want, you must cease wanting it. You must transfer that desire onto a BIGGER THING. You must want something more important. In the process of getting that bigger thing, you will obtain what you wanted initially... but by that time, it won't matter.
What you want = sex.
BIGGER THING that you SHOULD want = Strength.
How you will obtain that strength = Liftin', brooooo
I want to add one thing to this - after lifting, up your style game too. When the game engine of life recognizes you as the person in the room that looks the most like the main character, all of the dialogue options in life open up.
Hahaha, what an amazing mental framework dude. So true.
Wow, that was more thorough I expected. Thank you, I'm gonna use that.
Clear. Sometimes I got things I didn't want at all and I didn't get why it was like that (some of those were several years ago though). I realized it.
And I also learned a new word.
After your original post, I went straight out and 'practiced' my new craft and purpose. I noticed that my inner dialogue was quieter than I originally expected. Am working through all the comments since then. Anyway,
More solid gold here--Thanks again. I will keep working on my strength, and hopefully the inner dialogue will emerge with increasing strength. This is the best thread I've ever encountered, and has fundamentally changed my thinking..
Can you give me source on that Nietzsche quote?
I see what you mean. Once you have a surplus of value, it is easy to share it. However, why the heck does increasing your physical strength do anything to increase your emotional wealth? I've known swoll guys who were shy as fuck. It seems to me that cheerfulness is actually a surplus of seratonin, not strength. Stalin and Hitler were not cheerful guys but they sure as heck were strong.
So.. tell yourself you're a good person.... and you will talk to everyone you meet?
I'm not really following this ridiculous assumption. I know I'm a "good person", at least when looking at your criteria, but that has never helped me become more social then I am.
Lol bro, you are completely misinterpreting my post. If I had to sum it up..
TL;DR OF THE ORIGINAL POST
In this post, I am NOT saying that my personal rubric is the correct one. I'm saying that THERE IS VALUE IN CREATING YOUR OWN.
You misinterpreted my post so completely it boggles my mind
What if someone thinks you're an asshole but you don't?
It doesn't matter to me because I know they are wrong
^ allow me to unwrap this thought.
In order to have this thought, first I must presuppose:
Hella layers of meaning up in diz bitch
all ive wanted to do in life socially was be a good person to everyone, see the best in people and lift them up along with me.
now im on the autism spectrum, and social skills were always a problem through most of my school years. but surprisingly, last semester i was able to conversate much better with people in my class than a random student. yet most of the time i think too much about what im gonna say, or is the topic boring the person. still with strangers, the approach is like having your lips superglued when you go to talk.
Is this Owen cooks reddit account? Great post. Enjoyed. Interesting way of looking at it. Also, in the nights when you feel on fire and can talk to everyone, it's not an effort, it's more like no filter, which would fit with what you say.
Good article that actually delivers content rather than all those 'self help' books that are promoted on the internet which are just waffle and space filler to look like it has meaty content to the buyer.
Damn, are you Mark Manson? I love this, sounds like his explanation of "True Confidence". Great post for both our veterans and fresh pill takers.
Was having a drink with a few people recently and the one guy was like this. He would just say something to the ladies walking past and generally they'd react well (he was naturally good-looking). If he didn't have a gf I'm sure he'd have revved it up a abit and easily snagged one of the girls.
There's a contradiction in your thought process. On one hand, you're saying that most of us are innately good persons (whose goals are to give pleasure or impart knowledge) but on the other hand you're convinced that what any person you interact with has in mind is how they can benefit from you (what you can give them). I don't know if these two parallel universes can actually merge.
There is no contradiction.
Read my post again. I do NOT say that most of us are innately good persons – ANYTHING BUT. (in the comments, I even say that "people are shitheads but the trick is to love them anyway.") In my post, I say that I am an innately good person, because I have introspected deeply and discovered that fact about myself.
Thanks for that clarification. To me it sounded as if you were trying to make generalizations about humans through self-disclosure (hence the title suggestive of something that virtually anyone could do). Some of the replies tell me I'm not the only one who interpreted it that way.
Ahhhh, I see how you interpreted it that way, that makes perfect sense.
You're right... my post implies that everyone is capable of deep introspection, but I'm sure only a few of us are really capable of it.
This post is golden, but I think that the reason OP thinks he is such a genuinely good person is because he lives his life in a genuinly good way, he does good things in his life that then makes his mind not second guess its self and hesitate to talking to anyone and he has natural confidence. You are what you do.
ok heres my things tho. Im also aware that I'm smart, social and overall a good person. Therefore; I too, feel entitled to enlightened random people with a thought or 2 from my interior monologue. My issues lays in the fact that I am what you would consider to be a stoner. Sometimes when I'm retarded super high, I shut up.
This post reads like you put its constituent ingredients (philosophy, psychology, society, and self) into a blender to produce a sludge instead of a salad. OP, I'm sure you're well-intentioned, but this post is rambling nonsense.
Yung Word Salad reppin' TRP
Watch out for my latest track... "Hypergamy necessitates the self to remove the supergo transversal to the Alpha Fucks" feat. Drake
Shit gon be hot
Not sure how to post a new one, but yeah.
Thank you red pill for saving my life.
Thank you my friends you were right.
You were right.
Is everyone on this page self-hating, socially awkward and uncharismatic? I didn't know this is 4chan.
Yes, leftism is cancerous. You simply shouldn't give a fuck. I thought this is obvious by now.
"You must start thinking in terms of how the other person can benefit from interacting with you."
That's a surefire way to become a psychopath. We have enough females of this kind, we don't need males to become like this too.
How exactly is that psychopathic?
Psychopaths go out of their way to plan social interaction in ways that will engineer emotional responses. The difference between psychopaths and charismatic people, is that psychopaths actually do it "consciously". They plan it. Just like the person who made this post
The concept of psychopathy is bullshit, my friends
If you want to debate about it, come find me bro. I live in the American Gardens building on West 81st st, on the eleventh floor
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Follow your dreams, obviously.
This is what TheRedPill is all about. Congratulations OP, great feel-good empowering writing.
Again, with the fucking "one simple trick" bullshit?
One Simple Trick to Becoming Social by BurgundyCarpet
Step One: Completely rethink the universe, your place within it, and your understanding of morality, create a personal conception of a "good person," become that person, and then allow your positive moral self-assessment to influence your social interactions
It's easy bro, just one simple trick!
This sounds like it was written by a young teen.
I'm sure many are thankful for the advice, but it definitely made me cringe.
You are hating on my post without explaining why.
I'm grateful that you took the time to write a comment. I would be interested to know exactly what part of my post you disagree with.
Just the general "insight" you seem to have.
Plus if someone came up to me randomly in a shop and told me not to by a product I doubt if greet them with a positive response.
It ultimately doesn't matter, but my impression was when you hear a young teen talking up how great they are, but when actually applying this is a real situation falls short. Like a kid talking themselves up to their mates.
Sorry, but I just thought you came off really pretentious.
I understand that. I used a lot of vocabulary-type words that definitely signal "pretension" to most people.
Thanks for sharing your impression of my post with me, it helps me refine my methods of communicating.
Was that not explanation enough?
Yeah, that explanation has no value to me because there is no real meaning there.
There are many young teens who are smarter than me. Why would I be insulted by that comparison?
Young teens have no universal speech patterns, so his explanation that I "sound like one" simply makes no sense.
Instead of actually engaging with my post on an intellectual level, he decided to go full ad hominem.
That is totally chill with me. I do not agree with his retarded statements, but I will defend his right to BE retarded to the death
I more or less do this and it works well for me.
I've rarely had problems speaking to people, but I really like your approach. I'll implement and integrate the idea with my own philosophy.
Myself, I tend to view every single interaction with a new person as just that, totally fresh, they know nothing about me, so I can just let go of any pre-concieved limitations, and be whoever I want to be. No limits. Open.
Shit, dude! I think you just found the cure to cancer! Hah, look at those nerds in their labs sequencing things. Don't they know there's a light switch inside every person? Fools!
On a level though, the demographic that struggles with this stuff are usually introverts who get up in their own head and over think things. Hyper-analysing every interaction, every reaction, every pause. Extroverts or those who are less burdened with the voice in their head or the less intelligent (yes, I do realise how arrogant that sounds) just don't think about it, have fun in the moment and enjoy the very simple process of sharing a moment. Something that a lot of us, for one reason or another, have overlooked. Can't see the forest for the trees, or something like that.
Funny enough, askreddit right now has a post asking how to do this. I linked this post.
This society needs to be burned down and the ashes need to be salted. And maybe once we've done that we can start building a new society.
"Good" people are still engaged in the social economics "bad" people are, they just barter for a different product. Good people are good because it makes them happy, or because they should be.
Perhaps I'm different, but if you're bragging about being good then you don't have much to brag about. I don't mean you specifically OP, this is a good post, but some aspects of it encourage the beta behaviour we all seek to drown like a bag of kittens. Seeking to give woman sexual pleasure for no reason other than self validation is submissive, for example. You get yours, if she's lucky enough to be your fuck toy tonight, you should be behaving in such a way so that she knows how many options you have and that she has to please you to be kept around. There's no such thing as a free lunch, so if you're always 'giving', your getting nothing from it except validating your own existence, which for me is a slippery slope.
I love OP's post and I'd like to get someone's input on my thinking:
I've been reading a lot about holding frame, alpha/beta traits and so on. I think about that almost all the time. Including when I talk to people. I always want to be on top in conversations (because this is so alpha and all that), so when I talk I'm not really in conversation, because in my head I'm always thinking about social dynamics and how I dont make a fool of myself or say something "beta".
Which means I am not genuinely present in a conversation, which means I cant really connect with a person.
How do I stop doing this?
A lot of the 'hesitation' comes from Machiavellian impulses, like 'Should I really be sharing this thought with people'? The law that I always struggle with is 'Think as you like but behave like others'. Being that I read RP every day I have to be careful about the thoughts I share.
Yes, a girl likes to experience you giving value judgements. But it seems like we should give her a reason for approaching because some of them are going to be thinking in their heads "Why is this weirdo walking up and telling me random facts that don't relate to me?". I've seen that look many times, and it makes you feel pretty stupid.
So, I feel like we need something to introduce the frame to the girl, so she understands what is happening.
I could not disagree more.
If a cute bitch is walking a cute dog, I will say "cute dog. What kind?"
I will NOT say "hey, I came over here to tell you that I think your dog is cute. Can i ask what kind it is?"
When it comes to frame, sometimes LESS context is better. I don't give a fucking shit about some stranger's opinion of me so there's no negative scenario for me
Maybe you need to give fewer fucks, dude
What I mean is I feel like we should show intent. Otherwise, it just confuses the girl and she's wondering what we're up to, why we are doing it. A lot of girls hate for a guy to beat around the bush, but then again, maybe that's the point- keeping her guessing in order to spark her interest.
I was thinking in terms of dictating the frame in a way she understands it. "Hi, I want to talk to you... to see what you're like" or "to see what kind of person you are."
Or with a little Julien smack: "to see if you're smarter than you look".
If it works for you, do it bro! It sounds like it could be very effective.
Personally though, I think in initial interactions you ALWAYS want to keep the conversation abstract (by which I mean, having to do with ANYTHING except YOU or HER) because then it makes her waaaaaaaay less self conscious.
To me, saying "Cute dog" is infinitely preferable to saying "Hey, I want to talk to you."
"Cute dog" could be interpreted a million ways, so it lets her hamster run wild AND it doesn't trigger her insecurities/self-consciousness...
"I want to talk to you" INSTANTLY triggers her self-consciousness and leaves zero room for interpretation. You can't harness the hamster in your favor because you just laid out all your cards in the table.
Obviously, this is context-dependent... I'm sure your game will work for you, because any game works as long as you enter the interaction from Above and STAY Above for the entirety of your relationship with her ("holding frame.")
Yeah, good point. If you put her too much on the spot, she might clam up and go into defense mode.
The other way establishes you as non-threatening.
But wait a minute, That's not what I want either. I want to be threatening and put her on the spot, because that's what puts her into butterflies mode.
A girl wants a handsome prince to ride up and take her with him. Not pause, chat about random values, ask her a few questions, etc. Talking about other stuff makes it seem like he isn't clear on what he wants, or hasn't made up his mind. It makes him come across as a friendly old neighbor dropping by to chit chat.
I wonder if talking without intent sort of throws away his handsome prince alpha frame who would swoop in to take her.
So, we have that -vs- wanting to keep her on edge by being a bit of a tease in order to keep her on her toes, wondering if he likes me. But, in order for her to have butterflies, there has to be something for her to be nervous about, something she's unsure about, and in fear of losing.
If he is direct, she realizes he is hitting on her, and so if she values him a lot, her nervousness could be about having a super-valuable thing in front of you and making a mistake and losing it.
If she was talking to the President, or a famous actor, she would feel the same way. So, just establishing yourself as super-valuable takes care of the loss-value system, and so there's no need to tease or play coy with her.
And so since her nervousness is about your judgement of her, just hold that as part of the frame so you can keep that fire burning.
LOL bro, I found your problem.. you're still plugged in!
FTFY
Great post sir. You always see the most social of butterflies always seem to be adding to people's lives not trying to gain something. They do it because they genuinely love to interact with people.
What if deep down there are parts of me that don't want to do good?
I know, it sucks, and it's wrong. But I've done some pretty horrible things. I've stolen a lot of stuff. I've broken people's things. I've hurt people - physically and emotionally. If I don't have the confidence deep down that I'm a good person, how can I make this apply to me?
PS: I'm changing. A lot of it had to do with my alcohol problems, which is getting taken care of. But it's still a problem for me.
If you are parents are terrorists and they teach you to become a terrorist, you are NOT responsible for that. You had no choice.
If you parents are BP and they teach you a ton of bullshit and that bullshit manifested itself in the form of you doing things you're not proud of, you are STILL not responsible for that. You simply hadn't been exposed to a real map of reality. It is not your fault.
If you do fucked-up shit AFTER swallowing TRP, you ARE responsible for that, and I suggest you make amends.
tl;dr Turn off your filter
This is zen master level frame. True self mastery. Best post I've read on here in a WHILE.
Thank you my friend. I changed on a deep, deep level as I internalized TRP... this is my best attempt to codify the results of that change.
I'm not a zen master, but I do have full control of my penis (instead of my penis controlling me, like 99% of men)... I think this kind of sexual control is ultimately what people are referring to when they talk about "enlightenment"... Because TBH, whatever the fuck "Nirvana" is, I feel like I have attained that shit
Never be ashamed of your masculine desires. We have been trained to think of our innate impulses as animalistic and evil. Society teaches us that by withholding we can attain the synthetic perfection of a domesticated man. If I will be labeled a chauvinistic, hedonistic animal for following the whims that I desire, then I accept that label.
Benvolio was right. Men's eye were made to see so let them gaze. And should you desire to speak to a woman, the only authority you should consult as to whether you should do it or not is your desires. Whenever you transmit doubt in your actions, women see it as an illicit activity which should be rightfully sanctioned. When you do the same thing without a hint of guilt, you are transmitting that you deserve her attention, even if the girl has not realized it yet herself.
Walk up with complete confidence in the righteousness of your desires, otherwise you are screwing yourself before you even start.
How could you take this advice to talking to bigger crowds? instead of just one-to-one interactions
It sounds perfect but for someone inexperienced it could be a slipery slope to the friendzone. You give something valuable but you expect something in return and if you're not satisfied you need to stop giving like that guy who drives that girl all the time but she just keeps blowing him off.
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Only because he is perhaps the most faggoty beta male in the tiny Beta Fiefdom that is the world of literature, and also because his writing is even less effective than Rachel Dolezal's conscience
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Michael chabon is awesome dude. Kavalier & Clay was so dope. I like Chabon because he does not pretend to take the moral high ground like Eggers and Green, and also because I thoroughly enjoy(ed) his work back when I read fiction in my BP days.
John Green and Dave Eggers are in a similar league of uber-faggotry for sure. Ultimately though I dislike Eggers even more, because he is just simply smarter than Green, and uses his superior intelligence to be EVEN MORE of a pretentious faggot. I resent Eggers because he and I were both gifted with powerful verbal ability (so I identify with him, which intensifies the resentment)... The difference is that I use my powers for good and he uses his powers to surround himself with beta faggots and spread his particular flavor of the Beta Faggotry Religion
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I strongly disagree with that. To me, DFW is absolute shit... (And when infinite jest came out, even EGGERS didn't like it... Until he was called upon to write the intro twelve years later and decided it was socially advantagous to change opinion)
I don't read fiction because it no longer interests me. Red Pill me knows that reality is MORE than interesting enough.
Reminds me of Tyler Rsd and higher consciousness. Great post!
Thing is, whenever I say something I either get ignored, or get judged.
Sometimes I'd say ridiculous shit cuz I find it self-amusing, and the girl would look at me like "what a creep" look. :(
Great posting! I like that kind of positive attitude. I think this subreddit is a good place for your message, while TRP often tends to destruction, dominance, blaming other for own negative feelings. Thank you.
I read this post about a month ago and didn't really think much of it at the time. The next week the thought about how I have no ill will towards others really resonated with me. I use to slouch and look down, avoid talking and going places out of anxiety. I am now standing tall, have zero problem maintaining eye contact, I didn't notice till my long term friend asked me why I'm talking to everyone we walk by. This mind set seriously was a the catalyst for my change. I don't know who the author is, but thank you.
If you don't believe in "starting conversations," what do you call it when you initiate a dialog with someone you haven't met? "I don't believe in starting conversations, I believe in opening a dialog" this whole post is dumb as shit, reads like a high school student wrote it.
Who the fuck doesn't believe in starting conversations? I never said that. What I said is that I don't think in those terms.
I start conversations all day bro. But instead of thinking "I will now start a conversation," I am thinking "that is a cute dog"... And by the time I have that thought, I have already opened my mouth and said it.
You are going ad hominem and I will not descend to your level. This is because ultimately, even though your words are nonsensical, I still believe that they are well-intentioned so IAintEvenMad.jpg
I'm not your bro, this post is bad.
You are my bro, and I know your intentions are good.
Your thoughts, however, are dumber than Sarah Palin's nephew
Who doesn't do this?
If you can't talk to strangers you have problems. Talk about literally anything.
Bro, instead of labeling millions of men as "having problems" and telling them to "talk about anything," how about you sit the fuck down and try to contribute value to this discussion?
OK.
Step 1 - stop being autistic.
If only it were that easy.
You actually have a great point though. The autistic mind is the hyper-masculine mind. There is ancient wisdom hidden in the vast expanse of forehead between the eyes of a man with Down's Syndrome
Massively helpful, thank you.
wonderful!!! You should write a book. Loved it.
This is exactly what I learned from How to Win Friends and Influence People. Anyone who hasn't read it will benefit HUGELY from learning Carnegie's lessons.
100% agreed. That book is TRP gospel... The ADVICE is mostly beta, but the PRINCIPLES OF HUMAN INTERACTION he discusses are a COMPLETE mind-fuck of truth.
Appreciate the knowledge man. Just want to say you deserve that TRP ENDORSED flair.
It should be on the sidebar for young guys to get a job in sales asap. If they work hard to reach their goals they'll be forced to develop their social skills.
Wow this is pretty good advice op. I'll try my best to implement it.
'I genuinely only want the best for people' is the kind of self supporting ideology a sociopath believes. Morales are constantly in flux, you need to react to the situation not have a blanket desire to do good for everyone. I bet your desire to do good falls apart as soon as someone wrongs you.
Fantastic post, I've enjoyed your past posts as well.
I really appreciate that, because I just looked through your post history and learned a ton of new shit. You are a very intelligent individual with similar thought processes to me (systemizing/talking about IDEAS instead of events/people), so I greatly appreciate this comment. The fact that you are smart makes your comment mean something to me.
Have to contradict you on one point. Society is a veneer. So while in a functioning society generally people are good, without society people are bad. The only reason I don't do most of the stuff I want is because I know society frowns on it and I'd get imprisoned.
10/10 just dropped some serious knowledge on us. Thank you
Very well said OP.
The biggest misconception about Red Pill philosophy is that it is malicious and self serving, that the men here are predators. What I've seen hammered into the heads of every newcomer here is that the primary focus of this community and this culture is the advancement of men towards a better version of themselves.
It seems, unfortunately, that our society is terrified of men taking the reins of their own lives. Don't let your society define you: seize the day and be the man you want to be.
Or you can be that weird guy that talks to everyone. We have those in our building, especially on the elevator. People talk, and sadly you can be stamped as kind of odd if you're starting random conversation for no reason. I feel like the only time a random conversation is acceptable is in situations where: 1)You're in an atmosphere/setting where it's ok to talk (i.e. not in a hospital waiting room, library), 2) you have sufficient time to keep the conversation going for at least 20 seconds, and 3) you are not singling out one person in a group of 2 or more in the immediate vicinity, it's either all or none.
Your comment reeks of insecurity. Allow me to reframe.
People go around their whole day desperately waiting for high value men like you and I to talk with them. Fortunately, we have enough surplus energy to do them the favor of granting their wish.
Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of weird yet confident people. But I understand, my fear of being the "weird guy" does get in the way of my social encounters, and I'd rather be below the threshold than barely above.
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Nice. I was hoping to come across as a medium-to-large faggot. I exceeded my own expectations. Thank you good sir
Been swallowing the red pill for a while and you might as well have just topped off my drink that goes along with it. Thank you sir! Your 1100+ upvotes are well deserved.
I really like this post, what else there to read that is similar? Also, one concern I have is how well this idea of giving and not taking can be reconciled with a dominant, self centred and powerful attitude?
THAT is the key question and I am shocked that no one has asked it yet.
The answer may strike you as immoral but I assure you it is fact...
"There's a natural human yearning for transcendence and submission" -Lawrence Wright
You must understand that people WANT to submit. They DO NOT HAVE THE STRENGTH (mental or physical) to lead. I HAVE THAT STRENGTH. You probably do too. The vast majority do not.
The key is to understand that if you do it right, dominating is giving. You're giving leadership, you're giving meaning and purpose, and ultimately you're giving orders.
Once you understand that you are different from other people and that these people NEED to submit to a leader in order to be happy, then your frame is complete...
If you do it right, dominating exists WITHIN THE FRAME of giving.
What reading would you suggest to learn more about these ideas?
I can only imagine that bp guys downvoted this reply.
I don't fail to see your logic and I think you make a good point. Keep it up.
Thanks man. That reply was the "hidden frame" of my whole post... You might be the only guy who recognized it
This is born again Christianity in a nutshell. Feel good cause you are good. It is wrong
Negative. Christianity (and all religions) depend on emotional appeals intended to inspire altruism.
By contrast, I am making a psycho-emotional appeal to inspire introspection.
I am not a christian and my work contains zero christian ideas.
Very good post. I have been doing exactly this unconsciously. Lately I have been spending 14+ hours at work and to kill the boredom I just go talk to people at work. My only intent while talking to them is nothing but killing time by having a fun conversation. We just end up having lame conversations and building a better relationship in the end.
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Think why you are having social anxiety. What stops you from interacting them? Think about what's worst possible outcome. Are you going to die? No,Then why are you afraid? Dude start lifting and stop fapping. It will increase testosterone level which gives a profound level of confidence. Then it'll be very easy.
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I also have same problem. I think the years of conditioning cannot be overcome in a day. We need to force us to become more social . it will take time. Thinking about worst possible outcome will make it easier.
I like my girl to cry after sex, so I guess I fail your test.
Let's not turn TRP into a religion. This is the last place I expected a lecture on morality. Who are you to define what makes good and bad people?
I make it clear a million times in my post and in my comments that I am NOT defining morality for everyone. Rather, I am suggesting that they define it for themselves
Fucking perfectly stated. Holy shit.
This post made my heart race with how inspiring it was. Fucking incredible stuff.