696,979 posts

Corporate Politics - With Women

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February 17, 2020
17 upvotes

Stats: 35M, 6' 84 kg on a cut, 102.5 kg bench, 280 kg deadlift, 180 kg squat.

Sex and relationship life is good. This post is not about that.

This post is specifically about corporate politics, especially with women. This post is for those in large corporations.

I'm a middle manager. I made it through hard work and good politics, but I've been stalling for a few months.

I report to not 1, not 2, but 3 superiors who are women, the only one who's above them is the company CEO. My immediate manager, my second line, and my third line are all women.

And as a you might expect, it's a fucking nightmare.

Immediate manager (a director) is the ultimate boneheaded process Karen - doesn't understand a technical thing, interrupts everyone and everybody in every meeting. I haven't met anybody who likes her - I have stellar relationships with a lot of VPs in the company and every single one of them warned me of her. One minute she's shouting, the other minute she's dovey. One week I'm her favourite person ever, the next week she sends me 10 flaming emails every day. It's a fucking nightmare.

Second line, a senior VP, let's call her Hillary, is new to the role, location wise she is in the same city as Karen and so they go on trips together to horse races and what not. Karen has her on speed dial and I can't get through to Hillary at all.

Third line, a board member - doesn't care for anything our organisation does, and only cares for herself. She's an attack dog who manages by constantly attacking the other board members.

All of these pretty much got their roles because of affirmative action crap - they'd never cut it out on skills alone, and they pretty much add no value whatsover. They are untouchable because women, right?

It drives me nuts. I don't know how to deal with them all. I have started applying for other jobs and looking around for new opportunities.

Any tips on how to deal with situations like these are welcome.


Post Information
Title Corporate Politics - With Women
Author brattykids123
Upvotes 17
Comments 37
Date 17 February 2020 10:12 PM UTC (7 months ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/339407
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/f5gqfc/corporate_politics_with_women/
Similar Posts
Comments

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret19 points20 points  (3 children) | Copy

If they are difficult to deal with, switch jobs and find a better environment. You can sometimes influence people, but you can’t control them. It may or may not be worth the mental energy in your situation to try and make it work. That is entirely up to you. You sound fairly far down in the pecking order. One reason why I personally don’t like the really large corporate environment.

[–]SteveStJohn3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

You sound fairly far down in the pecking order.

The only person above any of them is the CEO. OP is high up enough to get noticed by the CEO.

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think you read this wrong or OP wrote it as if he is 4th in line (3 line managers down) from the CEO.

[–]Balls_Wellington_Main Event + Coronavirus2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

It really depends on the company. Where I work I am 3 levels down from the CEO which is about middle of the pack. 4 levels down would be a supervisor or group leader.

At my last job 3 levels down from the CEO was enough to get you a mansion on the beach in La Jolla and a jet to fly you there. There I was...15 levels removed? I was so far down that I only ever saw him on the conference screen.

There's really no telling without knowing the details of OPs employment. Either way, the higher up the ladder you go, the easier it is to change jobs.

[–]simbarlionRed Beret16 points17 points  (5 children) | Copy

Quit your bitching and learn the game. Here is the main bit you need to know (specific to work environment).

Firstly,

Women are by default reactive, men are by default proactive. Men plan, use strategy, consider, adjust, they see the future. Women 'feel', respond, react, they see the now. As much as it sounds negative, women aren't built to be leaders - they don't know how best to lead others in work. Being the one they rely on goes a long way - but they will still take the credit.

Secondly,

Social structure. Men are hierarchical, and will respond to a leader, and won't question him until there is a weakness, at which point they will gladly overthrow the leader when the time is right. Women are consensual, they will seek the consensus within a group, and generally only move forward once everyone is 'on board'. Importantly they get shitty when you don't 'get on board'. If you are perceived as on board you will have less issues.

In summary, men like heirarchy and getting shit done. Women get preoccupied with group dynamics and upset if they don't get consensus. If you are not on board your female bosses path, she will want you out of the group. It is an unnatural dynamic to have a woman lead a man (who knew?)

There is an excellent post on this that addresses social dynamics in much more detail

EDIT - read this http://theredpillroom.blogspot.com/2012/05/female-social-matrix-introduction.html

EDIT 2 for you lazy fuckers - a key take away from the master himself:

Female competition is subtle and indirect, a matter of turning group consensus away from the established leaders' desire toward your own.  And if you're thinking that's a lousy way to run a company or a non-profit or any organization that wants to actually get something done, well, I can't argue with that.

[–]rn788910 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy

Man this resonates. I’m a male nurse, the entire profession is a cluster fuck because it’s lead by women, naturally. They will accept any new policy, any insane bullshit that comes down the line as long as everyone else is accepting it too. If one has a bad day, then everyone is going to have a bad day. It’s great money and a lot of time off, but god damn it takes a strong frame to put up with their bullshit.

[–]-TheFalcon-0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

My nephew is also a male nurse he's going for his masters to get into management to curtail some of the nightmares he endures.

[–]rn78891 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Good luck. Women run healthcare. Most of the bullshit you run into is because of an emotional response. Most of the documentation is just extra boxes to check without purpose, but since women love checking boxes, we get a ton of boxes.

[–]hack3geRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It’s a lost cause - OP can’t even manage his wife how the fuck is he going to manage women with actual authority over him. He’s a giant faggot living in everyone else’s frame.

Women are the easiest to manage up in the workplace - it’s much easier than actually managing an alpha boss. My boss is a woman and so is her boss and they berate the shit out of my peers but never do that shit to me. Also my wife is a CFO so I’ve seen it all and heard it all and she used to do the same shit to me at home.

[–]macheagle0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for your blogspot link, it has been a fantastic read so far and I've shared it with a married RP bro who has just commended the piece highly as well. Truly excellent insights.

[–]creating_my_life16 points17 points  (4 children) | Copy

I'm going to be the contrarian here....

I've had several women bosses in my career. And, truthfully, most all of them were very, very good at their job. I've found that both men and women can be incompetent, shitty bosses.

Your strategy to maximize your career is mostly gender-neutral. Look out for your own ass, get visibility with people that matter, and take every opportunity you can to get more money.

You're angry because there's incompetency above you in the hierarchy. Well, yeah, that happens. It's not a male-female thing. It's a life thing.

[–]Rock_Granite3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

Yeah I worked in corporate world too. Sure there are good female bosses. But proportionally speaking, I had many many more unstable female bosses and colleagues than male.

[–]Cam_Winston212 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Nearly 30 years in corporate America, I can second this. The proportion is striking.

[–]tap09885342 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I third this. Women are capable of being fantastic workers and leaders, but are typically nightmares. Also, the more women an org has in key leadership roles, the less effective that org is. And orgs vastly dominated by women leadership cannot survive without being propped up by grants, taxes, donations, additional investment, etc. A talented women, however, in a male dominated hierarchy can shine.

[–]Balls_Wellington_Main Event + Coronavirus0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I've seen a spectrum. I've noticed that competent female bosses (director level and above) tend to be much more aggressive than their male counterparts, probably due to being treated like dumb pretty girls their whole career.

Less competent woman bosses tend to be either anxious or people pleasers. I've never seen a good boss of either gender with these traits.

Female bosses in my experience respond more strongly to a show of loyalty (like publicly getting their back in a meeting) than a male boss does. They are also much more likely to stick to their first impression of someone, so you have to nail it fast.

[–]Big_Daddy_PDX5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Christ, it’s the hottest economy in decades. Get a new job. You’re talking about some bizarre corporate gamesmanship that’s akin to a 6-ball combination shot in pool. Leave already. Oh yeah, I’m a corporate recruiter in Tech. The deck is going to be stacked against you because you aren’t a woman.

[–]RStonePT6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

You never explained what you want to have happen.

What's your ideal outcome?

[–]HeckleandChide10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

Get a different job. Corporate America is a field full of landmines on this shit and #metoo can destroy your entire career.

Get another job as quickly as possible. You have zero options here if these ladies don't get moved along by the board / CEO.

In the meantime, reread 48 LOP and look for specific applications in your day to day.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

How long have you been in your position? This is not necessarily a woman issue - it could be a corporate culture issue. It doesn’t sound like you have any male superiors for comparison though.

Just watch your back, and if the writing is on the wall, check out other companies... or if you have the balls, start up your own company on the side until it grows enough to get out. Entrepreneurship is not for the weak though. If you think corporate is tough, try flying without a net with your own business. Your income relies on you solely and you don’t get a paycheck like corporate. I’m stating the obvious, but this is why so many choose to be a corporate slave instead of entrepreneurship.

My point... you are young enough to start thinking about starting your own gig and be in charge of your own destiny.

[–]wkndatbernardus12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

If the pay is good, who cares? Let these sluts drive business in the west into the ground while you stack that cash until you can GTFO. Then, work on something that you actually care about instead of trading the best years of your life for $.

[–]markreadsred6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

Keep files on all of them. Record every conversation you have if you are in a single party consent state or province.

I was in a similar situation once and was able to deal with a wall smashed 3rd wave feminist and her little dog too. Posted a plaque on my wall that said: "I do not use the word promise in this office." To kill and covert contracts coming for her. And saved every communication for ammo when needed.

They say the business world is cut-throat for a reason. Keep yourself sharp and let the dull appointees of the affirmative action brigade hang themselves on their own lack of ability and skill.

[–]Dumbusernamerules2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Jesus You sound like my dad.

[–]markreadsred1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I try. "My dad" has a very particular style of Reddit speech. It's hard to emulate but I think I have to down to an art.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

If your boss is a woman, and wants you to fuck her to get the promotion to Partner.

Just FUCKING DO IT MOTHERFUCKER.

Do not be me.

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Nothing wrong with sucking a little dick to get ahead.

[–]Maximus_Valerius3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

How is your post different from every other victim puke?

[–]odysseysredDavid Koresh trying MRP3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

You're going to have to settle in for the long game. The progress you have made to this point was victory over the uninitiated or the uninterested. You will have to tighten up your game to overcome those that are wise to the game and have an easy defense of their immediate position. I find females in power to be incredibly short sighted and easy to distract from the primary objectives of the workplace. You can easily plant the seeds of dissent and get them playing against each other.

Print the middle Karen's resume and leave it in an obvious place. Start a rumor shining a poor light on the lower Karen. Become useful council to the top Karen.

Treat many interactions as shit tests but with low energy deflection. Keep it positive. Never complain. Feign weakness.

Read the 48 laws of power.

[–]1Apolyon1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

If you want to play office politics you won’t likely excel. That said, know your handbook- all the bullshit that gets people in trouble.

As someone else wrote, keep files on your superiors, just in case.

HR exists to protect the company (not you)- just remember that before reporting their bullshit to HR.

Also just about everyone in corporate culture doesn’t “deserve” their job. About 80% of people are hired due to who they know. Organizations are filled with cronyism, nepotism, and relationships that you aren’t aware of.

[–]tspitsatgp1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

If you want to be a middle manager forever keeping whining like a little bitch. If you want to get to the top learn to play the fucking game.

[–]SteveStJohn0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Can you get in front of the CEO?

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Guy is 4 levels removed. Better to get in front of a new CEO than play LOP games with his apparent lack of ability to do so.

[–]YourWife-MySlut0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Mmmm...

Sounds like they are high in sociopathy. Don’t listen to guys telling you these women are business as usual. High sociopathy women who are also intelligent are the most dangerous.

Safest bet? Leave. Seriously this is a mine field and You can be goddam sure they won’t leave room for you. 100% you are at a dead end and that won’t change without a death.

Look for a VP position with a smaller firm or a lateral shift to a bigger firm.

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Just ride them all. They want your cock badly, so put them out of their misery.

[–]brattykids123[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

🤮jesus i don't even want the mental image

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

But now that you've had that thought, it can't go back in the box.

[–]markpf730 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Is this post a complaint about working with or for women?

Or are you seeking advice on how to navigate?

1) For starters you sound like a big fat or skinny faggot for complaining that affirmative action is the reason why you’re not the boss of everyone. Just saying...you sound butt hurt. If you were that good you’d be there.

2) Female boss or male boss? any boss can be a nightmare or a dream. It all depends on how you play the game.

3) climbing the corporate ladder amongst men or women is no different. It’s a game that takes a varied skill set to manage long term.

4) stop complaining and start learning how to play the game. Most corporate ladders are not meritocracies. Most corporate ladders are not fair. Machiavellian tactics and the 48 Laws of Power can lead you up it if you put in the work.

5) make sure you come home daily and vent to your wife. Gets ‘em real wet...

[–]screechhaterRed Beret-3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Read the side bar.

Be very attractive. Do not be unattractive.



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