Q4RP: Morailty Aside, Should you tell lies? Can the pros outweigh the cons? What lies are worth telling? What lies aren't?

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February 25, 2020

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Title Q4RP: Morailty Aside, Should you tell lies? Can the pros outweigh the cons? What lies are worth telling? What lies aren't?
Author redpillschool
Upvotes 48
Comments 22
Date 25 February 2020 05:06 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/340570
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/f9de41/q4rp_morailty_aside_should_you_tell_lies_can_the/
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[–]1halfback91024 points25 points  (0 children) | Copy

Depends on the kind of lie.

In a broad social sense I think it's best to live honestly so you don't have to lie. If you're going to lie to a friend to avoid them they shouldn't be your friend. If you're going to cheat on someone just dump them. Etc. Is it more labor up front? Yes. But long term it's better.

In specific social situations a white lie can be called for if and only if it is prompted. Telling someone who is hideous unprompted that they are beautiful is wrong. But if someone forces you into an awkward situation "I.E. how does this look on me?" I do not think you are uner an obligation to tell the truth. It was wrong of them to put you in that position. So you can do whatever you want to make that situation easier for you.

If it's a question of acquiring resources I think the best policy is that the first lie you tell should be the last one you HAVE to tell. Basically only lie if it means you'll get all the marbles. Otherwise not worth it. Because being regarded as trustworthy and having your word held in high regard is incredibly valuable.

When you answer a question you want people to think "Well, then that's the end of that. He says it's X so it's X."

If you are caught in a lie that confidence in what you say will be lost forever.

[–]3trplurker9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

We all lie, everyday to everyone around us and we expect them to lie back to us just as much. The person we lie to the most is ourselves, for the same reason we lie to everyone else. Anyone, and I mean anyone, who says they don't lie is the worst offender of the bunch.

Yes it means I'm including all the self-righteous posters who claim "I don't lie", now lets watch the fireworks and realize how much they do lie to themselves and others.

Humans find absolute truth an incredibly hard thing to handle, so hard that they invent walls of deceptions within their own minds to protect themselves from that truth. That is the first set of lies and it just goes on and on from there. Lieing to their parents, lieing to the friends, lieing to everyone around them because to do otherwise would be rude. An truly honest person would be impossible to relate to as they wouldn't share in the common lies that glue the community together. Lie's and half-truths are what keep us hairless monkeys working together in some semblance of community and greater society.

Now having gotten that out of the way, the only person in the universe that really matters is us is ourselves. If we choose to tell the truth we do so because it brings a benefit to us, if we choose to tell a lie then that also should bring a benefit to ourselves. Everything else should stem from those two absolute truths.

Words are just thoughts given form. When we speak to someone we are communicating an idea to them, the more cohesive and firm the idea the stronger it's communicated. Those ideas are what we really should be discussing, are we communicating that we find value in that person (a lie), or are we communicating that we really don't give a fuck (truth)? One step up from this is that perceptions are formed from ideas, meaning perceptions can be changed with ideas injected with words. This is where the bigger lies come in, we can inject an idea that supports the belief that we are "good honest hardworking" people (another lie), or we can inject the idea that supports us as being "total selfish assholes" (the truth). And this can go on and on until the entire fabric of human and society interaction is reduced to a set of communicated ideas.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I agree 100% with this. I think the best we can achieve and the only thing that matters seeing how it's in our control IS to be as honest as possible with ourselves.

[–]whatdidshewrite8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

I found that lying gives me an excuse to not progress. If I can lie about success and still reap the same social benefits, overtime I start to feel less motivated about my goals

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Aren’t most wars and social contracts premises on noble lies?

Many people think religions are essentially noble lies too.

I think of an anecdote Freud told about the truth behind the lie that ‘storks delivered babies.’ He said something along the lines of the stork is the bird that kills snakes, I.e the creature that drives out deviousness - and he connected this to marriage and stable parenting.

Should we tell kids there is no Santa Claus?

[–]fusrodalek6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Total honesty is an indestructible frame. Not to be underestimated, imo.

Artifice and fakery crumbles under the gaze of an honest man. Cut through the bullshit whenever possible.

White lies might seem useful in the short term, but you can quickly find yourself entangled, being taken down a path of further lying to preserve your ego. On top of this, we can't truly know the magnitude of truth for any particular occasion. Sometimes a white lie can mean a LOT to somebody else, even if it doesn't seem to be the case from our perspective.

This isn't to say that lies can't be utilized skillfully, ie embedding truth within a lie kinda like sarcasm. Something like "I'm so fucking humble, I should get an award for it" is totally fine. It's more a joke than anything, given the receiving party understands what you're doing.

When it comes to 'my truth'--opinion--omission is totally fine as well. Not everything we think needs to be said, unless it seems pressing. I'm not gonna shit on music somebody likes if they seem to enjoy it, because that's just being mean-spirited.

[–]Pleasenodrugs2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

In terms of what? Women? Sometimes I lie about everything to a girl if I feel like it, from my name to my job to whatever lol

[–]OSaraiva1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I find lies to be an useful tool when you know how to apply it.

As so, you might jokingly lie to a girl saying your dick is so small, showing confidence and teasing her.

Or you might lie in a job interview about a capability that you are still developing. As in, your English level, for example. You might even find, many times, that the employer didn't need all those requirements for the job, or else is still up to you be up to the task.

I'm just citing two moments, out of my head, where lying would be useful. So if properly used, lying can really help not only you but others as well. One good rule of thumb for me is that a lie can not, ever, prolong in time, otherwise it will catch up to you.

[–]Korrangar1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

If your pregnant wife ask you if she looks like a fat whale, we will see if you guys tell the truth. If your kid makes you a shitty drawing I don't think you will tell him it's ugly.

There are multiple kind of lies. Lying to pretend that you are something you're not is borderline retarded.

Lying because you know that the truth would hurt someone you care is smart and is painless unless people see through your lies.

It's not dichotomic, like a lot of things in life. Use your brain, follow your own code.

[–]yomo861 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You lie when it suits your goals otherwise you don't or say nothing at all.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The best lie is one that is true.

The method of delivery of information can yield the same result as lying without having to lie. This is why they have created something called "lie of omission." Naturally it applies to everything except how many dicks a woman has touched.

[–]UnbreakableFrame2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I find that almost all of the lies that I tell are told for one of two reasons:

  1. To evade responsibility for something.

  2. To try and make myself seem like I'm the kind of person that I wish that I was.

There are legitimate reasons to lie, but they are rarely what someone asking this question is interested in.

I would rather take ownership of my life and solve those two issues above by doing the following:

  1. Only take actions that produce consequences I'm willing to be responsible for.

  2. Be the person that I want to be.

[–]lefty9290 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

What is "telling the truth" and what is "lying"?

Let's say you meet a woman at a bar. You're an honest man, right? So do you tell her all your qualities both shitty and good alike?

No. You make yourself look good. You make yourself look high value. You don't lead with the fact that you have anger issues or the fact that you pick your nose constantly like a faggot.

On the flipside, do you think she's going to lead with "I make $30,000 a year and I have tons of student debt, I'm batshit crazy and my pussy smells rank. Just bein' honest ya'll!"

Is this dishonest? Does this mean all men and women are dishonest because they are not being upfront and truthful? Does this mean telling half-truths is in fact lying?

These are all things you need to answer for yourself. We all have a slightly different gauge of morality and ethics. TRP is not set on this question. Each poster will have different ideas. Some men will tell you always be truthful because being truthful will set you free and you have nothing to worry about.

But what if you feel like texting her that day? What if you feel like smothering her with love and being a needy little boy? What if you withhold something you want to say because you know it will change her opinion of you?

If you don't do those things, are you being truthful to yourself?

Some men on here will tell you that not disclosing a plate to your LTR or girlfriend or wife is in fact not cheating because you weren't asked. Well, would you expect her to come forward and confess if not asked?

Questions like this are not easily answered from a random reddit thread. Each man must ask himself these questions and discover where his own truth lies, and then apologetically walk that line with courage.

[–]LateralThinker130 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Polite white lies? Perhaps. But anything substantiative, usually not. It corrodes your character and complicates your life. JBP is absolutely correct when he admonishes to "Tell the truth, or at least don't lie."

[–]RedAnfere0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Patrice O Neal and Dante Nero once discussed this on the black philip show without regards to morality and specifically for sexual strategy.

They both came up with extremely good points. Patrice argued for full honesty with the added rule of righteousness and full belief in what you are saying. Eg. Not backing down, Owning your shit, and DGAF attitude. Dante argued for lying if it could get you laid/avoid problems and if you were new to the game.

In my opinion full righteousness is the way to go once you begin to acquire some skin in the game. But starting out some dudes could greatly benefit from the confidence boost of getting a lay so lying in the present might make them more righteous in the future.

[–]Nicolas06310 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Most of the 48 laws of power include a form of deception, surprise or another. So I don't think always telling the truth is so great of an idea. You'll antagonise people and get manipulated.

But you shouldn't be caught telling lies.

[–]HoldenBalzac0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

How can you lie to someone whose life is filled with deceptions and self-deceptions?

How can you lie to someone who spends 12 hours a day wearing masks and disguises?

You'll never be as good at lies and manipulation as the average woman.

The danger is when you start to believe the lies you've told to others, when you lose contact with what's real. Then you end up like a woman who is shocked to find men don't chase her after she's hit the wall and her masks don't fit like they used to.

Pro tip. I've never been punished for telling lies. It's when I tell someone an ugly truth, that's when they punish me.

Maybe that's because I rarely lie. It's more fun to hurt people with the truth. Or maybe I'm just being mean because I'm in a bad mood.

[–]Clempot0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

“Every lie you tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later that debt is paid.”

—Legasov, Chernobyl

This is not to be taken autistically literally. Lying - unless strictly necessary - erodes self-confidence in the long run, because part of you deep down knows you're a liar and you're not good enough to be accepted if you tell the truth.

[–]Sebben9710 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yes try to always speak the truth.

[–]Rupturednutsack0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Lies are brought on by the ego feeling threatened. When that happens, alarms bells start ringing and all sorts of offensive and defensive mechanisms kick in. Lying is somewhat of a defence mechanism, but for the most part it’s straight up manipulation. Attempting to pull the wool over a persons eyes can result in you getting a hostile response, but it’s swings and roundabouts, just use common sense and identify who in the room may want to prove or penetrate your psyche or identity.

As to whether I utilise that, I’m not going to convince you that I am squeaky clean, but every now and then a solid bluff or warning of an eventuality against someone who is aiming to fuck with you certainly goes a long way.

[–]muricanwerewolf1-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

I generally tell the truth in all things. I just don’t see a whole lot of value in lies. The largest extent of my deviousness is pretty much keeping my mouth shut about who I’m fucking or something like letting people think I’m more busy/important than I am by being unavailable when I really am just doing fuck-all haha.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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