Q4RP: Has the dating market changed in the past decade? Is it easier / harder to get laid / relationships? Does game work the same as 10 years ago? How have you needed to adapt? Are the returns better or worse?

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February 27, 2020

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Title Q4RP: Has the dating market changed in the past decade? Is it easier / harder to get laid / relationships? Does game work the same as 10 years ago? How have you needed to adapt? Are the returns better or worse?
Author redpillschool
Upvotes 265
Comments 109
Date 27 February 2020 02:27 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/340821
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/facump/q4rp_has_the_dating_market_changed_in_the_past/
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[–]∞ Mod | TRP Vanguardbsutansalt[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (22 children) | Copy

The dating market did get harder for average guys. The advent of apps like Tinder and the normalization of online dating has concentrated sexual access even more to the top 10% of guys in a geographical region.


In addition, it was determined that a man of average attractiveness would be “liked” by approximately 0.87% (1 in 115) of women on Tinder.

Let that sink in, you will get liked by less than 1% of the women on these apps. In other words if a woman swiped right on you, there's a fair chance it was by accident. And if they genuinely are interested, well, it's also another question of whether or not YOU will be attracted to them? (you won't)

This is why dating apps are a fool's errand for most men. This is why it's imperative that men focus on self-improvement (gym & diet), work on their people skills (game), and fish in smaller ponds where they're the big kahuna (empire building/high status). h/t TRPoF

I think this is why the number of guys going MGTOW has exploded in the past few years. Guys are giving up and I can't say I blame them. It's HARD WORK to improve oneself, go through all the rejection, and so on. Factor in how soft the younger guys are nowadays seeing as about half of them were raised by single mothers and you can see why things have gotten worse for their generation.

Game does work like it did 10 years ago, but...there's more competition. Again, this is due to women having access to the top guys in an entire metropolitan area. Before smart phones, or at least before social media, spitting game in a bar or club was a lot easier. Now you have to still do all of that AND contend with their noses being buried in the phones hunting for dick online, not to mention the ballooning ego/validation they get from thousands of guys throwing them attention morning, noon, and night.

[–][deleted]  (34 children) | Copy


[–]RealMcGonzo96 points97 points  (21 children) | Copy

someone who brings nothing to the table but a warm place to put my dick

It's amazing how many women are like that these days. I'm not going to partner up in any way with my former GFs or even chicks I liked but never dated. They don't cook, they don't clean, they don't have any money. They don't bring anything but sex. The ones that I've been away from for a while have all gotten fat as well.

There's a guy across the street from me, in his 50s. His fat wife has short grey hair and dresses like shit. She takes her cat out in a stroller, LOL. He leaves the house at 6 in the morning and doesn't get back until 6 at night. Fuck that life.

[–]LazerSpin11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

Just saying that she won’t cook or clean if those expectations are not set ahead of time. Now more than ever before you gotta train a bitch for her to be a woman you’ll like for more than just her vageen.

[–][deleted]  (18 children) | Copy


[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (12 children) | Copy

What’s the reasoning for being so heavy in cash?

[–]VinnysMagicGrits24 points25 points  (0 children) | Copy

He's full of shit that's what.

[–][deleted]  (10 children) | Copy


[–]entrep47 points8 points  (8 children) | Copy

Yeah I think he meant cash rather than invested in stuff. As cash you're losing money to inflation

[–][deleted]  (6 children) | Copy


[–]Helmet_Icicle9 points10 points  (5 children) | Copy

Cash is the most wrong investment when you're unwilling to educate yourself about proper investments.

If you really want something stable buy 30 year US bonds.

[–]WitnessTheTruth0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is not entirely true. Cash be can be a short term shorting position if you believe securities will take a dive in price. For example, the way they have been diving for the past week. Cash is only as valuable as the intelligence and patience of the man holding it.

30 year US bonds are stable but the interest for them is hardly keeping up with inflation. Actually,they aren’t keeping up with inflation. 30 year us treasury rates are at 1.78% while inflation averages about 2% every year.

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy


[–]Helmet_Icicle2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

You could have billions in investments and cash sitting in the bank would still be a waste.

[–]CaucasianPanther0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

[–]Finance Guy & TRP VanguardTheRedPillFinance11 points12 points  (2 children) | Copy

Ouch. That's a lot of waste IMO. You do what you want, but your finances are NOT optimized for growth.

[–]Darkspace100-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Don't tell people what to do.

[–]∞ Mod | TRP Vanguardbsutansalt19 points20 points  (0 children) | Copy

We're of the same mind. Women just don't interest me like they used to once I took them off the pedestal. If lightning strikes and I find myself a unicorn, then great, but otherwise I'm keeping busy building my empire, doing my own thing, and mentoring others. If a woman wants to come along for the ride, that's fine by me, but I'm not deviating from my mission or going out of my way to find them. Women come and go all the time and that's fine.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy


[–]An_absolute_unit18 points19 points  (1 child) | Copy

This is what saddens me the most. I WANT this concept of eternal love and living a simple life with your partner, happy, to be real. I’m a romantic at heart and that made swallowing TRP that much more difficult. As much as I want to have kids I have a hard time convincing myself that a marriage is even worth it. Divorce rates have skyrocketed. I can’t logically justify exposing myself to that kind of risk.

And boy do women change during a divorce. Seen it firsthand in the family and a couple from friends. They become inhuman. It’s like your very existence is a stain on earth that they have to viciously scrub out.

[–]lastdazeofgravity1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

yea, noone even smiles any more, except women

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Great viewpoint man. Trying to stay in the game with that mindset now.

[–]think_90909097 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy

Would you say that you are "going your own way"? ;-)

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy


[–]think_90909091 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah I totally get it. I was being facetious. I'm trying to adopt a mindset similar to yours as well.

[–]8BitRebellion0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I agree!

[–]illusiveab0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I really think this is it. Think about where you started and where you are now and acknowledge it's generally impossible to say that your mindset is even close to the same. Being responsible, accountable, and honest changes your life and you can't uncouple that experience from your identity. Those same values change the nature of your relationships as well as your overall willingness to engage and 'settle down'.

[–]Jaggarojo86 points87 points  (36 children) | Copy

The advent of social media has greatly skewed the dating pool in favor of women. Guys get teased and increasingly follow women whose profiles showcase ass, tits and filtered duckfaces; they think they're getting their eyes blessed, but reality is, they're receiving the short end of the stick while inflating each instathot's value by showering them with attention.

Social media has also raised their expectations. With their 11k follower base, they think they deserve someone with at least that much clout. It's a complete arbitrary number that doesn't favor us and that makes us operate in their frame. That's why it would seem that the "no social media" guy could often gain some leverage.

But the essence within game hasn't changed. Once the guy bypasses the barriers of social media expectations and #metoo concerns, they're in. Women will stay women.

[–]mc_md42 points43 points  (22 children) | Copy

Social media is feminine. It is by nature attention seeking, and it makes you look like a pussy to maintain a social media page and post shit to try to get likes. Unless you are an artist or a business or some other way that you’re using social media to promote your livelihood or serious hobby, I suggest staying entirely away from social media.

[–]Axiomatic_Agony16 points17 points  (4 children) | Copy

Exactly. I've never had, nor ever will have a social media account. My friends think that's weird, but I think them taking selfies for Facebook is gay.

[–]NightTerror66 points7 points  (8 children) | Copy

Depends on how you use Snapchat & Instagram. It can be used to inflate women’s self image in exchange for dry pussy, or you can use it to talk to your friends and read actually good posts.

Just like Reddit. It’s often super BP/gay excepting good subs like this one.

[–]lilennui8 points9 points  (7 children) | Copy

Most people actually use it for gaining social power. It's a tool an average layman can use to leverage some clout.

I don't think us guys care that much, but women are BIG on stuff like pre-selection and social status. I genuinely believe you can be the best painter in your city, but if you don't have a following on social media it doesn't matter. Your face-to-face game would need to be ELITE level to offset that, and even then, i truly think it wouldn't matter in most cases.

Because everybody background checks everybody nowadays. The girl will pull up your Facebook account, see that you have 300 friends, you rarely post your work/activities online and when you do it doesn't get much likes... and you don't look like Chad on top of that... why would she fuck with you? She got this drummer in her DM's with more going on than you...

And the same if you don't have social media. ''Why don't you have a Facebook/Instagram'' account, she will ask. You will answer ''because it's dumb and i have better things to spend my time on'', which is true. And then she'll think, ''well, what's the point then, if nobody can see what kind of guy i can pull and us posting great party/vacation pictures...''

These hoes/simps have sadly made social media somewhat mandatory. Now, i don't advocate you being glued on in 24/7, being up to date on what everybody is doing. What i would advise most guys is to use it as a self-promotion page. If you're an artist or into crafting, post your work online. If you are a writer, post yourwork online. If you are a business, post your work online... If you are at certain events, post online... If you go to the gym and look good, post online. 80% of people won't care either way, 10% will tell you you're gay, but maybe 10% will think you're awesome, and that's 10% of people that weren't on your side before...

That's about it. Ignore everything else. Most people don't have any skills/unique to offer but they still wanna feel important/finesse some social clout, so they post photos of their food, some dumb articles etc. And they'll get equally mundane people who follow them back.

But if you're like a musician, and you post your music, sooner or later you'll get feedback from people who have the same interests or other people who want to collab artistically, or groupies who wanna have a piece of you.

Even if you don't give a fuck, which most people don't, just remember, next time you're gaming a hoe, she will look at your Facebook GUARANTEED and she'll see you have a nice following on there and you go to cool events and shit. You now don't get instantly dismissed.

Women wanna fuck and be around guys that are cool, do cool things and have other people validate them. Social media is a tool they use too see if you check those boxes. If you put out a blank form (meaning, you don't have social media) few girls will risk giving you a try out with a blank form unless you're Chad.

[–][deleted]  (4 children) | Copy


[–]lilennui2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

Get with the times, dude. Even guys that have 10x the amount of resources than you have, and are better looking on top of that, have social media accounts to promote themselves... They aren't simping online, like i said, it's a tool they use to flex their value in society...

Dude, every celebrity on the planet basically has multiple social media accounts and you're telling me they are simps and you are above them? Ok, bruv

I didn't say post gym selfies. You can make one picture of your 'gains' and post it online and leave it there for 3 years... It's enough to let people who are looking know that you take your body seriously... That's it. It literally takes you a couple of minutes to get a nice shot and post online.

It's not whoring for likes, it's a smart move. You don't give a fuck about likes, but women do. And they also give a fuck about how you look. If they don't know that you look good or have pre-selection, they won't try coming in contact with you.

I think you're overthinking it and taking it too seriously. I'm not saying to perfectly curate your social media account and make sure everyone sees what you are up to at all times, i'm just saying social media has become a huge tool in terms of networking in the modern world. If people want an easier way at meeting girls/networking, i'd definitely encourage them to use it... You can manage without, but you'll need to waste more time/energy/resources and have better social skills to pull it off, which isn't easy. And like i said, even then you can get dismissed purely on the basis on failing a social media background check. Most women don't give a fuck if you go to the gym and make a good paycheck if they see nobody is fucking with you on social media, and if you aren't on it, they can't really show you off... Especially beautiful women, they are even more invested in their worth. If she got thousands of followers on IG, and you don't, and she wants to do cool stuff, and you only want to fuck and then go play pool with the boys... she won't bother. She needs a dude society will deemed of equal value to her. It's stupid as fuck, but that's how things are now...

If it were up to me, i would ban all social media platforms, but it's not up to me. We live in a feminine-centric society and things like this are not only here to stay, but getting worse each year. Either you come to terms with reality or continue living in your basement thinking you're 'better than this', while being satisfied with pulling an occasional HB6 from a bar every couple of months that's seen 30 dicks already prior to you...

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy


[–]lilennui1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

You ain't famous......

You don't have to be. Everybody can use social media to their advantage if they have something worthwhile to post about themselves. You don't have to pull 'celebrity' level of clout on yourself, as long as it's offering another avenue of social possibilities for you. Not to mention that a lot of celebrities don't start off as celebrities themselves, but have got to that point by obsessively promoting everything they do...

That's still posting "gym selfies" whoring for likes. Just like a bitch You're catering to bitches bro. Stop playing their game & make them play yours.

Nobody gives a fuck about what you think. If posting 'gym selfies' gets you pre-selection or any kind of advantage in pulling women then it's arguably worth doing. Nobody gives a fuck 'whose game is this', you ain't Jigsaw motherfucker, you're some rando from the internet trying to be alpha on a forum full of anonymous dudes.

Also, you're acting like posting a picture of yourself requires you to go out of your way in terms of money/time/effort... It takes 10 seconds to do, you're already going to the gym, or you should anyway.

The fuck? Who cares about what that bitch thinks. She needs to pass MY background check before I'll give her any attention & access to any of my resources.

You fucking geek. It's not about caring what girls think, it's about exploring your options and using the nature and desire of women to breed with physically attractive men to your advantage. You can do this in many way, but arguably the easiest, quickest and most wide-spread way to do is IS TO FUCKING POST A PICTURE OF YOURSELF WHERE HUNDREDS OR THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE CAN SEE IT.

This is how i know you ain't getting no pussy, because you say stupid shit about you needing to background check girls...There's no background checking with women, unless you are vetting them for a LTR or marriage. If you're interested in fucking, all you need to know is in the forefront [the appearance of said woman], not what her background is...

Stop catering to bitches. Simps like you are why they act like complete shit.

I ain't catering to no one, i just play look at what the game is and try to play it to my advantage. I don't give a fuck about your perception of the state of the game, and what men and women should be doing under some BS narcissistic fantasy you live inside of.

Get the fuck off the internet bro, we're finished here.

[–]centaursg2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Very well thought out reply. I like that you provided actionable steps rather than just bashing social media.

[–]KingOfAllWomen0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

These hoes/simps have sadly made social media somewhat mandatory.

You need an escape hatch.

If you're worried about your luck with girls because you don't have proper "social media game" you need to venue change to somewhere where they wouldn't give a shit about that. The quality of people you meet will go WAY up as well.

[–]smgtn6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

I was just watching one of James Tusk videos were he said social media, specifically Instagram, actually hurt his chances of getting laid when he gave it to girls. The guy is about as Chad as it gets, so that's something to think about.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy


[–]mc_md10 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy

It’s lame. What are you taking pictures and videos of and who are you sharing them with? Most dudes are just making themselves clowns to entertain the women they’re orbiting on Snapchat, and the women are on there for the free attention. Whole thing is lame.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy


[–]mc_md3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

If you think it objectively adds value to your life, then by all means keep using it. I found it to be an investment without any returns, and I don’t do things that I don’t get enjoyment or benefit from. It was something I did because I thought women wanted me to, but I found that they only wanted one more follower to make them feel special. I stopped and I don’t feel my life has lost anything, and I’m in fact happier, less envious, less self conscious, more confident after quitting all social media.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

That's bad advice, specially if you are young. It's exactly the fact that social media is feminine that guys should use it consciously to boost their SMV. I know guys that post cool shit they are doing with other people and have girls hit their DM. Woman spend a lot of time on this shit, it's foolish to not use it in your advantage.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy


[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I said nothing about stalking girl's profiles, that's why I had an emphasis on use it consciously.

If anything, your social media profile should be a storefront for your lifestyle. Before you call me a simp, look at high value guys on Instagram posting just a few pics on vacations, partying with girls and doing cool shit. That's when you will have girls DM you rathen than the other way around.

And before you say it, I also think it should serve as an additional tool rather than a crutch or excuse for not hitting girls IRL.

Some guy below posted this article and I fully agree with it.

[–]Jcorb78 points79 points  (7 children) | Copy

I used to think similarly.

Now, though, I'm starting to feel like we might actually be in a sort of "golden age" for men who put in the work. For the extremely beautiful women, who are instagram models and whatnot, there's probably way too many men competing for their attention.

If you stop and look around, though, there are a lot of good-looking women running around. And we live in an age where people are becoming increasingly isolated. This is especially true of men; how many articles have we seen over the last decade, about "men" (as a whole) not pursuing women or relationships nearly as much? Getting sucked into their own, isolated lives? There are genuinely a lot of men terrified to make a move on a women, because of all the horror stories of how things could be.

If you look as "men as a whole", then yeah, things might seem pretty bleak at first blush. But if you really stop and consider it, what it really means is that there is a huge market for real men, and the demand far outweighs the supply. That's why so many guys get frustrated about "some guys just get all the girls". Because those are the guys doing the work, and with so little competition, they're in high demand.

I'm certainly not in a place to be giving advice to others, as I'm still trying to get my own shit together. But as I said, I think we're secretly living in the golden age to be a single man. You just have to be willing to put in the work to put yourself above "the average joe", which is a lower bar than ever before.

[–]WeightsNCheatDates25 points26 points  (4 children) | Copy

Your last sentence sums it up. It’s so easy to be a top 20% male these days. Shit, depending on where you live, it’s easy to crack top 10%.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

That’s what I am currently thinking about: if you don’t totally destroy your body, get fat or if you’re not a sperg, you are already far above average.

[–]Darkspace1001 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's crazy how many guys are ugly and unattractive. As a straight guy I always think "if I was born a female would I be attracted to this guy? Hell no". There are some guys who are very good looking and its obvious they look after themeselves but they are the minority. It's so easy to look good looking but it's too much work for most guys. Obviously most of good looks is from genes which can't be changed but if you have good genes all you need to do is eat well, sleep well and use decent skincare. Also not be fat is a big one.

[–]smgtn1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

depending on where you live

This here is the key, isn't it? I'm late 30s, 183 cm (6 feet), lifting for 10 years, easily in top 5% physique wise, I dress almost exclusively in Hugo Boss and I have confidence in spades. Having said that there are couple of big downsides - bald (shaved) head and average at best face.

But... I live in London where the value of pussy is inflated to extreme levels, so any kind of game I try yields shitty results. My lay count is over a hundred, though mostly from my time spent in Eastern Europe.

[–]WeightsNCheatDates10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

So you can either complain about it on the internet or move.

[–]growingstronk15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy

Depends on your circumstances. If you’re a young guy in a big city, you will get priced out, regardless of how tall you are or how good looking. Meanwhile in a college town you easily become top 10% just by being in a good major, having a good body, one hobby and moderate game

[–]ElegantCyclist17 points18 points  (1 child) | Copy

Social media is retarded.

Smartphones have made women flakier and flightier and less happy, but few will do anything about that.

Women are still women and attracted to the things women have always been attracted to.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

I recently ghosted a high value female in my city after she flaked twice on dates. She now keeps commenting and hitting me up on IG asking me “if there is something wrong?” Women are children these days and I don’t have time for that shit.

[–]throwawaycunt19978 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

The advent of social media has greatly skewed the dating pool in favor of women.

Dating? Hah! Maybe getting fucked and dumped but I don’t know if they’re actually getting valuable commitment off of Tinder. Their need for attention is getting hungrier and it’s blinding them to our declining reality.

Do you think getting more candy is healthy for babies?

[–]illusiveab0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

It depends on the girl. My girl is a petite model from LATAM with ~7k followers on IG and I have like 400. I'd say it's mostly American girls that care about lame shit like that.

[–]gonzas1440 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

nope. your case is just an exception

[–]omega_dawg9345 points46 points  (9 children) | Copy

I'm an older guy that thinks women will ALWAYS operate like women... and do woman shit. they can’t change their firmware.

social media has an influence but to me, they have to put it down and feel & deal with real men eventually... making the social media "high" irrelevant.

then you find out... this broad has zero social skills, zero conversation skills, etc making her a turnoff for LTR consideration. social media makes them intolerable online... and boring as fuck in person.

the most pleasant women to be around are old school imo... their phones are in their purse, and they leave them there when engaging others in reality.

afa pussy is concerned, please understand that women don't think of their vagina as you do. to them, MALE ATTENTION is the goal not (just) sex. they view their vaginas as special for childbirth but until then, they use it to get and keep MALE attention... the one thing they all crave no matter how many hashtags they follow and use. this is why they mostly don't care where you cum... it's not what the focus is to them. just give them the attention and positive feels and she will do whatever the fuck you tell her to: facials, anal, etc. they don't care.

this is why some girls are NOT freaky with you but are full "rick james" inspired superfreaks with the next guy... he got in her feelings and gave her the attention she wanted.

these young (21-30) yo women presently running the "what's hot" female market will fuck & suck instantly bc they've got access to all the attention they want. it's a race to the bottom to see who can get more likes & followers and all they have to do is have sex.

well... it's worse for them bc they get the attention thru the tips of dickheads but they don't get the relationship or commitment bc they're socially inept, boring, or too self-absorbed to be considered LTR material.

imo this is why so many women are unhappy nowadays... and need, “make me happy, make my life better” pills. you can’t tell it from their looks but just open your eyes: these broads are heavily medicated just to deal with normal living.

[–]dxpeday[🍰] 12 points13 points  (7 children) | Copy

i’m a younger guy, and i lean heavily towards old school/older women. they have the social skills to keep me from losing interest

[–]omega_dawg937 points8 points  (6 children) | Copy

MILFs are much more tolerable imo.

I'm talking women btw 35 to 55 (for me).

plus bc they have kids, MILFs tend to be less selfish and realize that the world doesn't revolve around their constantly-changing feelings.

[–][deleted]  (5 children) | Copy


[–]omega_dawg932 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

your opinion... and that's cool.

but I'm sorry to read that you've not encountered many good looking women over 27.

MILFs are highly desired for more than just vagina. once you've dealt with enough young women who are selfish and narcissistic, the attraction and lure of a more mature woman might surprise you and capture your attention.

at some point, every man says, "looks are impt but i need more." many women don't learn the 'more' part until they grow up (26+)... imo.

[–]BrownGummyBear1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Me personally I like an age difference, I’ve been fucking milfs during my 20s and have found some pretty hot mature ladies that have fucked me real good. Now that I’m getting close to 30 college age girls are starting to be more enticing to me (I wasn’t too into them when I was their age myself).

Luckily lots of girls like older men anyways 🤷🏾‍♂️

[–]omega_dawg931 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

yep. the world of women really opens up to men at about 30-37.

have fun my friend.

[–]EumenesOfEfa0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Here in Germany, generally speaking, Gen-X and early Millennials take care of themselves better than any of their successors. It is an absolute mess, but this is the reality that I have to face with.

[–]BrownGummyBear-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is the most retarded shit I’ve read in a while, you don’t like older women? Fine, but to say there are no hot cougars just means you haven’t fucked one yet. (Pro tip, go for the Asian ones, they age wonderfully)

[–]bk19xsa0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I am a mid 30s guy and am experienced with women, at least compared to most men. I would say that what you are talking about is a very challenging seduction technique. To reach right out into their feels. And the feels have to be sexual. Not the lovey dovey ones.

First you need to have access to the girls. Clubs, universities, bars, social media etc give you that access. Then you have to link up which is extremely time consuming. Once you link up then you meet for the seduction stage to happen. However, even before you try to seduce, you can be rejected in her mind for a plethora of reasons. They are so used to attention that anything short of what they want in a man, makes them reject you. You can even go through stages or levels of passing her evaluation during the meet. You can be decent looking, be confident, be athletically built, be a good conversationalist and so on but unless you know exactly what she wants sexually at that time and whether she has mentally not already rejected you, its going to be a steep slope to climb.

If you are a top 5%, perhaps 10% male then things become easier because you just entered the event horizon for the girl. She will then hamster everything in her head for you and probably even have sex with you within few hours of the first meet.

If you have any solid game strategy for mastering seduction in today's world, in addition to self improvement and making the girl think you are in the top 10% SMV then please do let know.

[–]growingstronk22 points23 points  (10 children) | Copy

I’ve noticed that a lot of women that are young understand sexual market dynamics pretty well. Especially obvious with reasonably famous podcasts like call her daddy that promote different responses to things based on how hot you are.

Are they willing to settle, knowing how rare top 20% men are and how many options they have? Nope. Probably willing to accept them cheating at this point too.

And this extends to women regardless of promiscuity. A lot of women that are avoiding sex altogether now. Things are getting super strange.

[–]Sumsar014 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

Google "the beautiful ones rats"

[–]throwawaycunt19972 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

That experiment was done with mice, by the by. You’ll get better results putting that in the search bar

[–]throwawaycunt19975 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy

Things are getting super strange.

Can’t forget the big ole’ glitch in the matrix that popped out of China. Going to be fun how that fundamentally changes everything as social distancing becomes required and people probably getting pissed off at the government/CDC. Isolation and rebellious attitudes just might make for a fun party as the weak die and the strong get stronger.

Looks to me like we’re hitting an evolutionary turning point in 2020 for humanity.

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy


[–]throwawaycunt19970 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Not a world ender. Just a monkey wrench in the system. Who gives a fuck about bitches? Ooh wee a warm hole to fuck

[–]barnowl50 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Sorry, but can you quickly explain? Forgive my ignorance, but that perked my curiosity...

[–]majani0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

He's either talking about TikTok or corona

[–]TangoFoxtr0t1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

What's your take on Call Her Daddy? I feel like half the advice is brilliant and half is stupid as hell that will leave you broken, lonely and depressed.

[–]Dls9540510 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm old but still attractive for my age. Women in their 40's, 50's and 60's are going bat shit crazy for lack of available attractive men that would want to woo and pursue them. Their desperation and vindictiveness when disappointed is appalling.

[–]Aaronindhouse25 points26 points  (1 child) | Copy

I think friend circle game produced more substantial fruit than pickup at bars and clubs for me. If you are going for quality, this is my choice.

[–]karlthorssen23 points24 points  (1 child) | Copy

NGL I would love to use that site and get off reddit but it is hard AF to follow threads there

[–][deleted]  (14 children) | Copy


[–]SalporinRP2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Just accept that it’s not realistic to have a healthy LTR with a modern women (most of these girls have n counts approaching 100 by the time they are 30). Pair bonding is dead. As a man over 30, give up the fantasy, take the red pill and just do you.

I think that's the part that still gets me the most. Decent looking, social, down to earth, non-slutty women are so rare it's like you might as well be chasing a unicorn.

[–]mega_kook3 points4 points  (12 children) | Copy

Ok, so I'm following most of your comment. You had me until the last sentence. A healthy LTR isn't possible at all? I'm fine balancing plates for a while but what do I tell my family when they ask me about getting a girlfriend/marrying/having kids? I consider myself pretty red pilled but still find it unlikely that I'll be single and playing game my whole life. What do you think the best way is to transition from plates to a single partner, especially as we get older?

[–][deleted]  (4 children) | Copy


[–]mega_kook6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

On paper this makes sense I guess, but I haven't really witnessed it out in the world. I'm assuming you're older and wiser than me so I respect your argument and we'll see what happens in my life. To me the main takeaway from this is that self-improvement is more important than chasing women or any other distraction that will take away from the path.

[–]bk19xsa1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

One good solution is to travel/work in some Central or Eastern European countries or Central Asian countries. Maybe even some African countries. Girls from there are still not affected and will pair bond. However, be sure to evaluate which girl is in for your status and money and which one genuinely wants to connect. This is crucial.

[–]Nikolasps910 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

he other hand it makes economic sense from an opportunity cost perspective. Instead of going out chasing women for sex in bars and clubs, it's often not much more expensive from a dollars and cents perspective to just "rent". This is especially true if you have a high cost per lay ratio. Although regardless of what your CPL is, the time and frustration saved has to be priceless--my perspective is I can always make more money, but I can never make more time. Plus the escorts are likely going to be far hotter than those you will encounter day to day anyway.

I'm living in Bosnia dude, one of the poorest European countries. I have university degree, stable job in Law department( my major is Law), living alone, have a car, decent looking, going to gym three times a week. I had chances yes, with the girls who are atractive as this wall I'm looking at! I have no chance to date even an average girl, you cannot believe how demanding they are. Things here are not better, believe me.

[–]askmrcia12 points13 points  (4 children) | Copy

but what do I tell my family when they ask me about getting a girlfriend/marrying/having kids?

I told my mom to her face two times that I plan to stay single and when I turn into an unattractive 60 year old I'll just hire escorts.

She never asked me about a family or wife again. I told my grandma a similar statement, but left out the escort part. There is no need for a man to get married.

What do you think the best way is to transition from plates to a single partner, especially as we get older?

Why the hell do you need a single partner? Because you're lonely? Get some hobbies and your social life will grow.

[–]rombios7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Divorced man here

The family court laws ALONE and no fault divorce will have brought the numbers to zero but its massively dropped among the current generation. Marriage is just not something they talk about.

In addition this has been hurting women (not that I care) a lot. You will read article after article of females (post 30) complaining about lack of good mating options. The 80/20 rule, female OPEN hypergamy and redpill awareness in the manosphere means less males are willing to entertain the thought of slavery (aka marriage).

[–]mega_kook2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I want a single partner because I'm trying to be the change I want to see in the world. The more I read on here about sexual strategy and our feminist society, the more angry it makes me and the less I want to play the game. Sure, spinning plates your whole life might be fun, or it might get boring as shit and turn you into a miserable person. I'm going to have kids one day and I'm going to raise them right. My legacy won't end just because I gave up on finding a suitable partner.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I agree with most of what you said but for someone like myself I want kids someday in the future and I believe in a 2 parent household. With that being said, if you don’t want kids there is no reason in hell to be married IMO.

[–]RpandaP-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

What are you even doing in this subreddit? Did you get lost?

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy


[–]yomo864 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

My take is the paretto principle. Getting laid is easy when being in the top 20. Getting in the top 20 is becoming easier by the day as the competion is becoming more feminized. For the 80 percenters life is tough.

As for Tinder: my success rate (kiss/lay) for direct approaches is 25-50 percent depending on the area and age group.

On Tinder it is .5 to 3 percent. Simply because the next blonde 6'3" Uber-Chad might and since the advent of dating apps and approach anxiety of guys is just one swipe away. Tinder gives mediocre chicks the temporary feeling of being a straight 10 movie star.

[–]TangoFoxtr0t0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Not being a soyboi and staying fit and healthy helps, but those gains are negated by our increasing connectivity.

Fifty years ago, living in some small town, it was relatively easy to be in the top 20%. Now, with the Internet, virtually no one is perceived as being even in the top 50%. Your competition has become larger even if it's just an illusion.

[–]krowitz3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I personally do not believe the dating market has changed in the past decade. Sure, one can argue about social media and feminism and marriage laws, we all know that, but what actually changed is how one's perception becomes different after being exposed here to the red pill.

When the anger passed and I was able to see objectively again, I realized that most of the things that resonated with me in the beginning was overstated. A decade or so ago, I was hoping to be with an equal partner I can share everything with, fall in love, have a family with. It's not what I'm looking for now, so my perception of the dating market has changed, but in essence it is probably the same. AWALT.

That said, it seems easier to get laid now, because maybe that's what I was going for. If my way of thinking now is same as a decade ago, my numbers would probably be the same. I haven't tried online dating nor social media so maybe I haven't adapted yet, but with the same old game, I guess I'm doing pretty alright.

[–]Nighthawk_Black_13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy

Getting laid is much easier now if you have your shit even half together you have a big advantage over most guys. If you're confident, masculine and not an awkward cunt you'll get laid.

[–]when_its_too_late12 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy

I think what's changed is more I'm being complimented and praised by some guys for holding out for so long and never having sex (25m).

I've always had solid game. Sharp, deep and flexible sense of humor helps, especially if you can mix intellectual conversations with humor. I've always bee cocky and confident even though I'm joe average in looks. Had a good father figure. Strong, masculine, man of the house type.

Can't say anything about getting laid. But I will say that the quality of women has fallen 2x every year I've been alive and old enough to understand the sexual market. All they do is sit on their phones and shop for attention. They aren't shopping for dates, dick or money anymore, simply attention and energy. They love stirring drama and negativity to be able to entertain themselves because their attention span is next to none. The BEST girls I've met yet have massive narcissistic tendencies and swing between super confident and being "too good" for everyone, to utterly broke and depressed.

The amount of women who can keep up with even BASIC conversations and humor is maybe 1/10. The rest just giggle and move on because they are retarded.

Game still works. Picked up like 6 numbers in one Saturday out downtown last weekend like it was nothing. Out of 6, 4 responded and one went on a date.

Edit:. As far as men go. All my male friends have stepped up big time. Opened businesses, got their own houses, cook fantastic food and have self educated themselves in anything and everything. So I'd say the quality of men is going up.

[–]CaucasianPanther5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Made me lol at the rest just giggle and move on because they are RETARDED... Hahaha

[–]learning00072 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Those most interesting thing I'm seeing is how many girls are actually turning into sex workers on those sites. Even saw girls looking for sugar daddies on bumble

[–]trollreign2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

The “dating market” has definitely gotten more difficult for the average joe.

On the one hand, people are generally having less sex than previous generations.

On the other hand, with the advent of online dating, there’s a larger pool of men available for women. With the known skew in women’s judgement of men, and the difference between men and women’s ratings of the opposite sex, it just mathematically follows that men around the middle of the pecking order find themselves in a more difficult position.

Finally, there’s much less clubbing and socialising now than 10 years ago. People just do not like to go to clubs and discos as much. This of course means that night game has become more difficult.

On the upside, for physically very attractive men it’s easier to get meaningless sex.

[–]slip-down5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

This topics been beat down so many times. To me, if it's easy, it's probably not worth doing. That's online dating in a nut shell. Every fugly person, guy or girl will use it. Girls want the pretty guys, guys want the pretty girls. You can argue the standards between the two, but the end result is the same. A bunch of losers looking to fill a void the easiest way.

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[–]ThrowawayYAYAY20020 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy


It can be waaay harder some of the time because many women think they are better than what they are.

It can also be like shooting fish in a barrel IF you know what to look for.

Women have always had options, but nowhere near like anything seen today.

A woman doesn't have to move out of bed today and she can get attention & validation just by turning her phone on!

Then again, it's VERY easy to pull women if you simple do the opposite of what every thirsty geezer out there is doing (sending dick pics, having no game etc).

[–]SalporinRP0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Something that flies under the radar is the fact that nowadays more women are going to college than men. Very few women will date a guy less educated than them and who makes less money so for a lot of your average chumps this shrinks the dating pool even more.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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