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How do I embrace rational egoism while killing my ego?

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February 26, 2020
9 upvotes

/u/SorcererKing argues in Why you're lost that we need to embrace rational egoism to fully internalize the red pill. He doesn't flesh out what this means exactly, but I found this on Wikipedia's article on rational egoism:

According to Rand, a rational man holds his own life as his highest value, rationality as his highest virtue, and his happiness as the final purpose of his life.

Rollo's term "enlightened self-interest" strikes a similar chord here.

Contrast this with /u/HornsOfApathy's warning against the dangers of ego, and the TRP/MRP prescription for newcomers that we smash our ego with heavy weights, duct tape over our mouths, and reading.

How do these ideas fit together? Are we killing the old, weak, beta ego and rebuilding a new alpha ego? Or maybe different shades of meaning of "ego" in each case that resolves the apparent contradiction?


Post Information
Title How do I embrace rational egoism while killing my ego?
Author ancient_resistance
Upvotes 9
Comments 23
Date 26 February 2020 04:25 PM UTC (7 months ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/341058
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/f9vr3d/how_do_i_embrace_rational_egoism_while_killing_my/
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Red Pill terms found in post:
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Comments

[–]Carrera328619 points20 points  (1 child) | Copy

This depends entirely on how you define the term “ego.” In a psychoanalytical context you will never kill it. What’s meant by “kill the ego,” in my interpretation at any rate, is that you’re striving to kill the part of you that seeks external validation in order to derive self worth. You kill the part of you that will rationalize anything you do to preserve the image you have in your head as a perfect being. You accept your imperfections, you embrace your flaws and face them head on. You reject the part of you that needs people to tell you you’re great, you reject the part of you that wants to put more weight on the bar than you can lift correctly because you want people to view you a certain way, you reject the part of you that values the external reaction to who you are over the internal knowledge of who you are.

In this way all of this works perfectly in concert to me. The ego in this context is the enemy of your own happiness. When you accept your flaws and face them and have the courage to correct them you embrace yourself as your primary mission and you disregard everything else. You are your own first priority, not because of some superficial self centered ideology, not because you want people to perceive you a certain way, but because you are the greatest gift to the world around you and the people you interact with by being the best version of yourself that you can be, and without tossing aside all the bullshit defense mechanisms and validation seeking behaviors that encompass your “ego” you can never be that person.

Doing anything other than prioritizing yourself is the highest form of narcissistic selfishness to me, because in doing so you have an inherent ulterior motive, and thus an inherent covert contract. If you are doing things for someone else and not deriving happiness from those things then you are doing them with the expectation that you will receive happiness from them in return, that they will respond in kind to make it a square transaction. The other person doesn’t know this, and often doesn’t, and then you become resentful because your intentions were not pure. I think that fundamental principle is the root of so many fuck ups in modern marriage.

[–]ancient_resistanceShit coming out my eyeballs[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You are your own first priority, not because of some superficial self centered ideology, not because you want people to perceive you a certain way, but because you are the greatest gift to the world around you and the people you interact with by being the best version of yourself that you can be, and without tossing aside all the bullshit defense mechanisms and validation seeking behaviors that encompass your “ego” you can never be that person.

This helps. Thank you.

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

I think you're trying to paint this black and white, so I'll lean into that mentality so it can make more sense to you. There is healthy and unhealthy ego.

Unhealthy ego is believing something you are not, at your core. It's the bullshit factor. It is a defense mechanism to avoid the true self that is underneath because you have fear of not being that very thing that you claim to be with your ego. That doesn't mean you aren't that thing you fear, it just means you refuse to evaluate that ego against your true self with a statement that could be a lie, or not. There is no rational truth in that ego.

If you're able to transcend that unhealthy "shield" to who you really are deep inside of you, then you can discover the part of you that is genuine. Only then can you build and grow that genuine part of you. Building that part of your genuine self and learning to love that core of you is what healthy ego is. It is a very rational way of looking at yourself. What is your truth? The great part is that if you choose to - you can change that truth. That knowledge and thirst of being a lifelong seeker of truth becomes your most important priority - thus, you become "self-centered". Some would call that "egotistical".

But as time goes on, you are able to rationalize what parts of your ego are true - and which parts are false. You destroy the false and unhealthy parts and replace them with healthy ones that you truly believe and permeate throughout the world. There is no bullshit to read through.

/u/red-sfpplus said it really well - only when you destroy your ego do you become worthy of having one.

[–]ancient_resistanceShit coming out my eyeballs[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The healthy vs. unhealthy / true vs. false comparison makes sense.

I understand the ideas and rationale behind ego-killing a lot better than rational egoism.

[–]lefty9297 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

I look forward to other people's answers in this who are more knowledgeable. Here are my 2c in the mean time.

You can be self-serving and rationally egotistical without feeding your ego. IMO, the name is a bit misleading "rational egoism". Transcending your ego is key. You will always have that voice in your head that wants to whine, bitch, cry, be afraid, whatever. Recognizing it as the ego, accepting and loving that part of yourself by understanding that its biological and still trying to help you, but also putting it aside and following the course of action that you want to follow, this is the way.

In that scenario you are serving your own interest, acting rational, disregarding your base ego while still accepting and loving yourself, and taking action from a place of want/desire/love rather than fear.

[–]Cloudy_Pirate4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Stoney's post on container words comes to mind.

Look, trying to reconcile all the different MRP posts, word usage, and ideas is like trying to debug another guy's Excel macro's. No thanks.

Short version?
Good: Frame, own mental point of origin, confidence, other's opinions are interesting/amusing

Bad: Ego based on other's opinions of you, false confidence, defensive (DEER), self-protective

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Stoney blew me the fuck up when I tried to retardedly container "masculinity" once. Rightfully so.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy

You are overthinking this thing to death.

Get the basics down: lift, sidebar, stfu

[–]simbarlionRed Beret2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

Although I agree, I do support the use of this sub for philosophical content in pursuit of one's own understanding.

The 'stop thinking and lift' answer is not universally applicable

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

I’m not against it for philosophical discussion when the OP clearly has a grasp on the basics... I’m not getting that here. I see a guy trying to split hairs about topics he has very little understanding

[–]ancient_resistanceShit coming out my eyeballs[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I see a guy trying to split hairs about topics he has very little understanding

I see that now too. This whole post is just another one of my bullshit ways of seeking validation (fishing for upvotes for sparking an "insightful discussion") and distracting myself from actual work (retreating back into my hyper-intellectual ego protectionism).

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Excellent. This is why we do this! Right here ^

[–]Rifleshoot1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The difference is where your valuation comes from.

Does it come externally, from your interactions with women, men, bosses, friends, etc.? That is the kind of “ego” that is destructive, needy, and weak.

Or does it come from within yourself? The metric you use to determine your worth should come from your own self judgement, not your wife, not your friends, and certainly not from strangers on the internet. You know how awful and weak you are, far more than anyone else in the world. And if you know that, then you can get into the business of fixing those things, on YOUR terms, in YOUR way. Maybe you like something most men find effeminate, like gardening or sewing. It doesn’t matter if we think those things are worthless and gay. If you find them important to your own growth and self-actualization, then those are things you MUST do. Your ego depends on it.

So kill that ego that is built on the opinion of other people. That ego is worthless. Instead, build your ego on a solid foundation that will never waver as long as you live: yourself.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy

Who fucking cares?

Your girl waking you up with blowjobs?

You fucking her ass while she is bent over the kitchen sink?

Another motherfucker with a ball sack full of come, a hand with hair and a woman who is fucking other men.

And you fucking are worried about a bullshit ego you have no business having in the first place?

Wanna know an idea?

STFU and stop being a little bitch.

[–]ancient_resistanceShit coming out my eyeballs[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I read this comment about 50 times before realizing it's by far the most helpful.

Thanks.

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

Little men downvoting you as usual when they secretly hate that they can't do any of those things.

OP is trying to work on 400 level stuff while he should be doing the basics as you eloquently say here.

[–]tom-anonymous3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I always down vote him because he's obsessed with anal.

[–]hack3geRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I make it a habit to downvote him now - I’m jealous of his gainz.

[–]youngscott180 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The way Tyler from RSD explained it stuck with me. It's about being less attached to your ego and allowing your core confidence to come through.

Core Confidence

  • You're born with it, just like arms and legs.
  • It is indescribable -- like MOJO or SOUL.
  • You have it as a child until it becomes wounded (it takes years to find it again -- and "re-remember" the core confidence you had as a child)
  • Feeds off of nothing, as it is self-sustaining

Ego

  • A rational construct that we devise as a substitute for self-esteem (when it has become too wounded to provide confidence anymore).
  • Getting status, making money, being desired -- these things allow us to LOGICALLY tell ourselves "I have confidence".
  • Different from core confidence because core confidence is an INNATE HUMAN ATTRIBUTE whereas ego is a MAN MADE PSYCHOLOGICAL CONSTRUCT
  • Feeds off of continual attention, accolades, good reactions, etc..

To let go of ego and get back in touch with core confidence...

  1. Logically internalize that you don’t need to have anything to feel self-worth
  2. Meditate daily
  3. Let go of traumas big and small from your past

[–]helaughsinhidden0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Be humble enough to admit you need to improve and avoid ego-investment into flawed ideas and flawed people that hold you down.

Then prioritize your own happiness because you and you alone are responsible for your success in all aspects of life.

[–]dilberryhoundog0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

A body has a physical boundary (the skin) and a meta-physical boundary (the ego). Anything inside these boundaries are "you" anything outside these boundaries are not.

The physical extent of your body is quite obvious, and rather consistent. We all know where the physical you and me start and end.

The meta-physical extent of your body is well hidden and hard to define. The ego is essentially energy, it bounds and lets through... thoughts, interactions, emotions, memory, rationality and logic, desire, love/hate, etc etc.

A castle wall is a good analogy to use here, the wall itself is the physical boundary. but the deterrent "force" applied by the archers arrows, although not physical is a very real and critical part of the castle. Other examples of a castle's metaphysical defences are enemy recognition and response, information transferral, motivation of the defenders etc etc.

An effective energy system or ego, is indistinguishable from the physical body if it is very congruent with that body. If both boundaries work in tandem, they appear as one. This makes the ego "disappear", all the long time pro's here still have an ego (probably even a strong and powerful one), but you can't distinguish it from their physical bodies, hence the "ego has been killed".

An ineffective ego sticks out like dogs balls, the boundaries are extended well beyond the physical boundaries, or in other cases ego boundaries don't exist at all. Often the ego mechanisms used are wrong for the purpose, Also it suppresses and controls the physical body sometimes. Poor ego's usually try to attach other bodies energy systems to their own. A classical example of this is a Man encompassing his wife emotions, desires, love etc within his own ego boundaries, (they define him). This mans "self" now has an energy system that is attached to an external physical body.

So in my opinion, "killing the ego" is not about abolishing it entirely, but trimming off unneeded ego parts, learning ego tools to use that are effective, and grounding the ego in the same reality that the physical body lives in. The red pill is purpose built for this task.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

When you are full of shit, you hop around on one foot doing things for others, including coming here, to get your wife to fuck you, and those people to give you their nod of approval.

You need to dispel any and all ideas that your happiness or well being comes from any other persons approval

When you stop stoking the feel good fire because so and says “Woh is you” snd you start acknowledging “Woh is when I hit by standard” then you have killed the ego to push forward.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I wrote about lemmings. Perhaps you should review...



You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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