695,976 posts

FR - My story - She is not who you think she is, 15 years to find this out (the hard way)

Reddit View
June 30, 2015
1802 upvotes

Summary This is not so much a field report but rather my own account of my unplugging, it will cover a time span of over 15 years so a little long. I think it’s important to create context so the first part is really dedicated to the story behind our meeting and marriage, the second part is the events leading up to the divorce. The experiences I have gone through have fundamentally rewired my psychology and how I see relationships and the opposite sex. Having read this sub daily, I think it is high time to give a little back to the community that crystalised what I already knew to be true.

Part 1 – The ultimate Beta provider

I met my ex-wife when I was 24 years old and she was 18, we both worked part time at a store in the capital city of an African country (one of the more developed ones). We were friends at first, I thought she was innocent and sweet, a little awkward but cute. Her father had passed away when she was 8, her mother was a teacher and ruled the house with an iron fist, very conservative and everyone pulled their weight in the household. I respected her mom, she was dealt a tough hand and made the best of a bad situation. I felt that a girl who had been brought up in that environment was bound to be good enough for me.

Our paths diverted when I finished my studies and started working full time, she remained working at the stationary store, struggling to help her mom pay the bills…very little future prospects, stuck in a rut.

2 years later, we bump into each other at a bar, we exchange phone numbers and started dating. She dropped her current boyfriend almost immediately to be with me. She was ambitious and wanted to continue studying, she had taken a 1 year break after high school to figure out what she wanted to do with her life. Financially strapped, she could not easily afford tertiary study. She had saved some money for her studies but nowhere near enough. She managed to secure a bursary/scholarship to one of the top universities (she was a smart girl) who paid for 50% of her studies. At this point, deep in a relationship with her and wanting her to be happy, I paid for the rest. (mistake 1)

2 years later. The political situation in our country had gone south and we make the decision to leave for the UK. I would go first and get settled, she would complete her last year of study and then move to the UK. Just prior to her moving, we got married…a spousal Visa was the only way to get her into Europe (mistake 2). I knew she loved me and I so deeply loved her, her innocence, her frailty, her vulnerability.

After she moved to the UK, she decided to change her career direction, she wanted to be a Software Engineer like I was but did not know where to start. We found a college that offered a 1 year Software Engineer qualification, she studied for a year, I paid for her studies and she lived with me rent free. She was my wife, my duty as her husband was to help her be successful so that one day, we could build a strong family unit and not struggle financially (mistake 3)

After a while the sex dropped off, I thought this was natural after being together for so long. We had sex once a month if that. I tried talking to her about it, it would be OK for a week or two and then we were back to where we started. I swallowed it…she was my wife, I loved her and our relationship was beyond sex (Mistake 4).

One day, after being sexless for approximately two months and missing the affection I so longed for, I found an e-receipt on my home computer from an online store for 3 dildos and some anal lube, they had been ordered several weeks back. I felt betrayed; she would rather have sex with plastic than with me? her loving husband that had given her everything. I went into our bedroom and found them hidden at the back of her sock draw. I did not have problem with her getting dildos, I just felt excluded…this was something we could have done together, she could have been open with me. She said she was going to surprise me and spice up our sex. We fought for a couple of days about this, but it passed…I loved her, I believed her…but I also realised, she was not attracted to me anymore (mistake 5).

After she finished her Software Engineering studies, I pulled some strings and got her a job as a junior developer working for the same company I worked for but in a different division. We had always had a joint bank account, the account where my salary had been going to, she had her own card for this account and I was finally happy that I was not going to be the only financial contributor to that account. 3 months after starting work she said she wanted her salary to go into a separate account and she would transfer “her share” into the joint account monthly….RED FLAGS suddenly started flying everywhere. I made it clear that I had been covering her ass for the last 4 or 5 years, there is 1 joint “family” account and her fucking salary would be going into the family account. Just like I was happy to do when she was contributing nothing. Her salary went into this account, but she opened a separate account where €200 would be transferred monthly to her….at this point, I am starting to feel fucked over…but I am her husband, we are a family, she loves me and I love her…nothing is going to break that….right?

2 years later, our bedroom still dead…we agree to have kids, our first son arrived in 2006. We decide to leave London to have a “fresh” start, I manage to secure a good position with a company in Germany, we sold our home in London (which I paid for) and moved…a new life in Germany.

In Germany, she stayed at home bringing up the kids, our second son arrived in 2008, we built a huge family home in an exclusive area in the town we stayed in. When the kids were old enough…she went back to work. I was happy, there was no sex but that was not important. We had a beautiful home, 2 smart kids, a great circle of friends, we were both working and had secure futures. Life was perfect…except, I knew she found me repulsive.

Part 2 – The downfall (Chad enters stage left)

She had been working for about 6 months. The year prior, she had dieted and lost substantial weight. She started looking after herself and I was happy for her, I complimented her every day, tickled and teased her…she laughed. I had always done regular exercise, while I was not ripped, I was by no means fat. One morning, after getting the kids ready and sitting them down for breakfast, I went upstairs to the bathroom…she was doing her face, I came up behind her, hugged her and whispered in her ear “you are looking so good, I can’t wait to get home tonight so we can have some alone time”. She said, “Perhaps if you weren’t so fat I would fuck you”. I said….nothing…shocked, I went downstairs, packed the kids in the car and drove them to kindergarten. For the first time...I started thinking about divorce. After all that we had been through, all our shared experiences..she blurted out such a hurtful thing so easily.

A month later, she did some online training for a week where a bunch of students sit in a virtual class room. A couple of days in, she tells me it is really cool, and one of the other students (Dave) is a really funny guy…I would love him if I ever met him. I think nothing of it.

That weekend, while on our Tablet at home, she had left her email account open. I noticed 20 emails between her and “Dave”. I click on the first one, the email history attached below…they are flirting. I confront her, she says they are just friends and he is in the UK...no danger. I tell her its not OK to be married and flirting with other guys…think of everything we have built up, the kids, the house…me. She cries and says it will stop.

I don’t trust her. I hack all her accounts and have access to her phone. She sends him an email the next day saying she loved her husband and they need to stop. He agrees.

Two days later, she initiates contact again with him and it escalated quickly, I see the email exchanges but let it develop, perhaps she will do the right thing. At dinner, I ask her if she has spoken to him again…she says no, that’s all history.

Five days later, its escalated…he is sending cock shots, she is sending vag shots to him via email. I again ask her if she has spoken to him. She says no, with an absolutely straight face but unable to look me in the eyes (well what do you know, my little angel is a really good lier). I tell her I think she is lying and ask her to show me her phone…she refuses. Then, admits it. She cries, she knows it was wrong…we agree to try again. Its only online right...think of the family, think of the house, the kids…our life together, our history. I mean… I was there to help her bury her mom when she passed,her pillar of support…didn’t that mean anything to her? She sends him an email saying they have to stop…he agrees.

Another 3 days pass, she initiates contact with him again, she is talking about how beautiful his cock is and she can’t wait to lick the cum off of it. Turns out my little princess is a raging whore that wants all her holes filled. Dave was good, he knew exactly what to say to get her wet…I read it all, each message kills me a little inside. I say nothing…perhaps she will figure out that this is wrong and come back to me. After 2 days of intense emails between the two, explaining how they plan to fuck each other…I have got to the point where I realise that I do not know this woman at all.

That night, I have said nothing…she is lying in bed next to me with her laptop. I pretend to be sleeping….she can’t see my eyes, I have a pillow over my head. I can see her screen. I pretend to be asleep, deep breathing...she opens her email account and starts typing...after 5 minutes I say “How is Dave?”…she slams the laptop shut, she denies it...I ask her to show me…she refuses, then admits it. I blow my top…WHAT THE FUCK IS SHE THINKING! She is going to risk this family for an internet fling with some prick in the UK?! The house, the kids, our friends circle…everything we have built up!!? She says she can’t help it….she needs this adventure. I tell her she has to make a decision..its me or Dave. She leaves and goes for a walk…crying. I go to bed; she comes home and sleeps in the other bedroom.

The next day, she sends Dave an email saying that she has to choose between her husband or him…and she chooses him. I was at work when I read this…it took a minute to sink in, I went to the bathroom, holding back tears, violently started vomiting, then passed out…I don’t know how long I was out for. I left work dazed and confused, went home and slept…

She got home, asked if I was OK…said I was fine, shaking, pale, dehydrated…I had not eaten in days. We started talking and I asked her if she had reached a decision? She said she wanted to stay and hold family together (the lying whore)…I pretended to be oblivious; she then suggested an open relationship. I told her to fuck off, I had self respect, if this is what she wanted then it was not over…she still wanted to fuck him. I knew it was over between us…if it was not Dave, it was only a matter of time before she was fucking someone else, I was starting to unplug.

The next day, I told her she had a divorce on her hands, the switch had gone off in my head. Having read the exchanges between her and Dave…I did not know this cunt at all and she was unpredictable. Everything I did now was focused on protecting myself and my kids. I immediately removed her from my bank account, contacted a lawyer and minimised all communication with her.

I took some extended holiday from work, I was not able to function. My concentration was shot. My day consisted of waking up, doing 200 pushups and 100 situps. I ran 10km every morning and 10kms in the afternoon. I would do push ups at every opportunity I had. At night, I would go out with a friend and we would hit all the bars in town. I needed distraction, I had serious IDGAF and for some reason (we all know this)….woman flocked to me. Over the next 8 weeks I would end up texting with about 12 different woman, they could not get enough. I was a 40 year old man at the time, on one of the first nights out I met 24 year HB9 hairdresser who could not keep her hands off me. Being out of the game for so long, I did not close…and in reality…I did not want to close. But it gave me hope for the future…this new life might not be all bad.

My soon to be ex wife saw this transformation and hated it, now that I had grown a set of nuts and took control of my own life, she detested it. Her Beta provider was disappearing (and somehow becoming attractive again)

I was still tapped into her accounts, she was making concrete plans to go fuck Dave in a hotel in London now that she was getting divorced, she had a free pass to fuck Dave. They were sending hundreds of messages to each other every day, describing what they were going to be doing to each other, things you would not want done to a farm animal…my little princess that I looked after like brittle porcelain was going to be A2M’ing Dave…nice. A close friend who I shared everything with told me to stop reading these messages, it was killing me. I said no, I needed to read this because they were cauterising the last set of feelings I had for this woman. I would stop, but only after I was done with the last step.

She told me she was going to London to visit her brother…I knew better. I told her I was not stupid and knew that she was planning this, she denied it. I knew what time they were meeting, what hotel they were staying at, I knew the room number, I knew that she had an appointment to have her Vag waxed the day prior to meeting him. Her cousin in London was to lie and say she was with her in case I called. I suspected she wanted to attempt a rescue after she came back from London. Little did she know.

We had a house together and this was on the market, it would take another 3 months before house got sold. She wanted me to move out…I told her to go fuck herself. She created this situation, she should move out. She wanted to sleep in the main bedroom...it was her room. I told her to go fuck herself…I paid for everything and she should move to the guest bedroom. Her car broke down, she called me…I told her to go fuck herself and call “Dave”. I had given her so much in the past and it would be a cold day in hell before she squeezed anything else from me.

For the sake of the kids at home, we were cordial with each other, parental duties continued as they were. We tried to keep life for the kids normal. We made arrangements to have house sold, agreed to divide up furniture and liquid assets…I just wanted out. Her trip to London was in about 6 weeks, during those 6 weeks, I was on an emotional roller coaster. My life consisted of running, pushups, situps, bars at night and meeting new people. I was content with my future one hour, the next hour I was curled up on my bed crying. During a low period I contemplated suicide, I came close, but how would my kids live knowing their father committed suicide...I stepped back from the ledge

She left for London, when she left, I told her not to fuck him with a smile on my face. She smiled and said that I was crazy and she was not meeting him. She continued denying it as she had done for the last few weeks. The night they met in London, I gave it a couple of hours then I called up the Hotel, I asked to be put to through to Mr Dave Thundercocks room. He answered….I said “Hi Dave, do me a favour, can I speak to Mrs All_fixed_now?”, he said ”sure, who should I say is calling?”…I waited 3 seconds then said “her husband”…he hung up. I then called her mobile, she answered…”all_fixed_now, why are you doing this, just leave me for tonight?”, I coldly said “just so you know that I’ m not as stupid as you currently look. I heard room 743 is really nice and I bet it has not seen as much action as it is seeing tonight. The only thing I want you to know is that you have lied to me for 15 years about who you really are…now, I know exactly who you are”….I hung up.

I was done and I felt nothing anymore. I was not angry, depressed, happy or sad…I was just empty. My close friend suggested I talk to someone to deal with the pain, I felt no pain…nothing. I remember talking to him saying that it felt like my psychology had been rewired over the last 8 weeks. My opinion of marriage, being a provider, the true nature of woman, what I would compromise for a woman and what I would not had completely flipped. I would never get married again, I would maintain my independence and I realised that woman aren’t these fragile little creatures that need to be looked after, it is in their best interests for you to believe that…but they are experts at deception.

She came back from London, as expected...there were tears, begged me to take her back. She tried to come onto me, get touching and affection. I pushed her back. I sat there coldly while she bawled, told me she loved me, for the sake of the kids, the house, our family, all the history we had together…she was distraught and so desperately wanted me back, my emotions felt tickled…only slightly. I sat back in my chair, looked at her coldly and then said “So Daves cock did not taste that good then did it”?...got up…and walked off.

I was done.

UPDATE - The Epilogue

Many of you have asked for an epilogue, how things turned out. While my original post was quite long, I will add a few more paragraphs to close off the loose ends. This all happened during the last quarter of 2011, from when I first discovered the flirting in October, to when she came back from London in November and to when I met my next LTR (a different post) in December. The house was sold in December 2011 but I only moved in February 2012 so we had a couple of more months living together in the house….I was not moving out.

After she came back from London, she made several attempts to fix things with me. She went from being nice, she tried appealing to my emotions, talking about the kids, she even tried climbing into my bed naked in the middle of the night. She was in emotional turmoil but I was so thoroughly disgusted by the person I now knew she was that I coldly and calmly rejected all of her advances. This usually resulted in anger from her, I walked away…did not care, I felt nothing. One night after her usual attempts and anger, she said that Dave was the best fuck she ever had….he made her cum 6 times that night, my response “good for you”.

After the veil of “love” had been lifted from her, the beauty I had seen in her disappeared. I saw her for the aesthetic wretch that she was, a HB5…a 6 on a good day. I was repulsed by her, even though I had never come across the RedPill at this point, I knew something had changed in me, something fundamental.

My life was now open ended, I could do anything I wanted and had no commitments to her, the only thing I needed to worry about was myself and my kids. After 15 years of being the sole breadwinner…it was liberating. The one thing I knew was that I did not want any more kids, I would likely be running around like a dog with two dicks and wanted to make sure that I was in control of choosing to have kids or not. I had a vasectomy in December and it was the best decision I ever made (and you will know why in my next post).

I realized that despite me having no feelings for this woman, she was still the mother of my kids and she needed to be OK for my kids. After all that she had done to me, I was fair to her and made sure she was OK to find her own place, get moved in and there was minimal impact to my kids…that’s the only thing that mattered.

In December 2011, I was juggling multiple women, I was out every night with friends or dates and I was looking for an apartment in the old town of my city. I scheduled a viewing to see an apartment I was interested in, waiting at the door…an attractive real estate agent comes up to me and introduces herself. She was 33 years old and extremely attractive, slim, dressed well and had beautiful blue eyes. We go inside and she starts showing me around, she asks why I am looking for an apartment, I let her know it’s a divorce…she starts telling me about her divorce. We spent 3 minutes looking at the apartment and the next hour talking about our failed relationships. She was open and honest, a breath of desperately needed fresh air. She was to be my next LTR.

I heard through the grapevine that my ex-wife went off the rails for a few months. On the weekends that the kids were with me, she would apparently go out with “friends” and fuck anything that moved. Apparently she even had a couple of Lesbian encounters. Over the next 3 months, she introduced 2 men to the kids, guys that stuck around for a couple of weeks. After the second one disappeared off the scene, I told her to settle the fuck down and find a new man and stick with it. I did not want a revolving door of men coming and going out of my kids life, if the kids were introduced to one more man that was only there for a couple of weeks…she would find herself in court and I would look for custody.

6 months later, the ex-wife met another guy and she has been with him ever since. Tall, balding on top with a pony tail, skinny but with a fat stomach, only drinks Soda’s and Red Bull, absolutely no dress sense. My friends have told me she downgraded…as long as she is happy I don't care. He is BB through and through and a “nice guy”, he is good to my kids and teaches them right from wrong, he is not a negative influence on them. They stick around for a coffee when they pick-up or drop-off the kids, we do birthday party’s together and there is no anger.

My ex-wife continues to be extremely “nice” to me, she tries to help and make my life easier, I put it down to her guilt nerve still twinging in the back of her neck.

Oh...and she has put all the weight back on. I am in the best shape of my life (thanks to TRP's lifting advice)

Lessons Learned:

• You think you know your little snowflake? You don’t know her at all. If you think she is a snowflake, it’s because that’s what she wants you to believe. It serves her purpose

• Don't be a Beta provider – Does not matter how lost she feels, does not matter how much your caretaker instinct tells you to help. She will not appreciate it in the future, the only thing she appreciates is what happens now (Brifaults law).

• Don’t be a begging Beta, if she does not want to have sex with you then don’t beg, you can’t negotiate this shit. Be the guy she wants to fuck, and if it’s not her…then it’s another one of the lined up woman. My current response to a dead bedroom shit test is “You don’t control my sex life, you either keep me happy or I get someone else to keep me happy”

• If she cheats - the only thing that can be rescued is your self respect, GTFO and show no emotion

• Some people on this forum say "dont get married", I would take it a step further and say dont ever get yourself into LTR situation with a woman where you cant walk away at the drop of a hat. Maintain independence, have no dependents.

Edit 1 Geezuz guys!!! my first serious post and you guys give me nearly 1000 upvotes and you toss fucking gold at me?!

Edit 2 By popular request, I have closed off my story with a small Epilogue. How things turned out.

Edit 3 For my next post I plan to talk about the lessons learned from my next LTR (the real estate agent). That relationship is about to end.

Edit 4 Link to my follow-up post I did a while back https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/3kdu83/fr_she_is_not_who_you_think_she_is_again/?st=iz7634qi&sh=78ff16ba


Post Information
Title FR - My story - She is not who you think she is, 15 years to find this out (the hard way)
Author All_fixed_again
Upvotes 1802
Comments 430
Date 30 June 2015 04:15 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/34232
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/3bn9s6/fr_my_story_she_is_not_who_you_think_she_is_15/
Similar Posts

Red Pill terms found in post:
Comments

[–]cheeky--kunt417 points418 points  (54 children) | Copy

This was almost painful to read, becasue you had many red flags pointed out and ignored them, but at the same time, liberating to see a man being unplugged for life.

Also you have children and responsibility. Something that she is not capable of. Godspeed. Wealth, health and loyal mates to your life and children.

[–]2All_fixed_again[S] 170 points171 points  (48 children) | Copy

Thanks and I know, the red flags were everywhere. If I had known about the Redpill in my youth, I would have walked at the first sign of trouble. As they say...you are never to old to learn

[–] points points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–] points points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–]aphelion334213 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is absolutely correct.

[–]SinisterSwindler0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This needs to be burned in the back of every and all new members. Women share no guilt for their actions.

[–]HighOnLife 62 points62 points [recovered] | Copy

Men are equally destroyed and unhappy from the arrangement. Suburbia is repulsive. It's almost getting me to believe the theory that the family entity was created to 'farm' people. Getting people married to have more and more children that are just additional tax and economic units of production.

[–]anecdotal26 points27 points  (0 children) | Copy

The red pill eventually starts to reveal all aspects of the matrix we live in.

[–][deleted] 27 points28 points  (3 children) | Copy

Yes. Imagine people instead of living in cities living in rural conditions, smaller towns where they are mostly independent. Imagine these people are able to grow most of their own food and take care of their own.

The people in this given example would consume far less from external sources than someone living in the city. It is in corporations best interests to get people hooked on as many things as possible.

You need these things, and more than that they don't last very long! So you buy a thing, and then have to re-buy it many more times!

Yes, the common man are economic units of production to consume and to accrue debt, nothing more.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy

It's less about profit for corporations and more about economic productivity being paramount to inter-nation competition in a post-nuke world.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah totally, should read corps/governments, they are essentially merging together now days what with the revolving door between government and corporate positions.

[–]Mr_Zarika0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The agricultural life style gives WAY less time for whining about female problems and is far less forgiving for weak men.

Self-controled women and powerful men.

[–]naturalredpill1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I can recall career boosting jobs I was obtained in part because I was married with kids. Employers know a married man with kids is already a slave. He cannot just quit because he is not treated well.

[–]Magnum2560 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I wouldn't say the family entity was created to farm people, but that's certainly what it does do. The sociology in the first world revolves around people valuing money and consumerism above everything. An emphasis on "keeping up with the Joneses" is forced down our throats at every opportunity, in advertisements, in movies, and magazines, our worth as human beings is taught to us as being equivalent to our financial and material success. I think the hardest thing to overcome is that the whole thing is very contagious. You might be someone who inherently knows better or who can sense there's problems with society but when your friends, family, and coworkers are constantly talking about their material existence it has a way of pulling you in. Pretty soon all you focus on is buying that big house, and the new car, and buying your family all the trinkets they could ever desire, and then raising your children to do the same.

Then again I guess this is nothing new. Humans have been in search of wealth and material superiority for thousands of years. It's one of those things you can't really get too upset about because it's impossible to change on a large scale. The best thing I find is to just be conscious of it and try to resist the urge to impulsively spend which will keep you free from the trap.

Use money to be free and empower you with options, don't allow it to trap you with none.

[–]cheeky--kunt64 points65 points  (20 children) | Copy

Don't lose hope, nor feel bad. You have ended up here, the last sane place on earth. You are (?) 40 wishing you knew trp 10 years ago. I am 30 wishing I knew trp 10 years ago. Even teen guys in 20 wish they knew trp sooner.

I admire your skills to get work in other country, even to be able to start from scratch there. Don't bend, ascend.

[–]DRHipsterFaggot17 points18 points  (6 children) | Copy

can confirm.. 25, wish i found trp 10 years ago

[–][deleted] 39 points40 points  (1 child) | Copy

can confirm.. 25, wish my dad found trp 40 years ago.

[–]MightyTaint1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah that's what breaks me up the most. I've known some really good old dudes, who grew up in the 60s with hippies and womens lib, and they got fucked by the new wave of feminism. Some of them never found the pill before dying, the ones still remaining probably never will. It's sad as fuck.

[–] points points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–]1PantsonFire12341 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yes. 23 and I wish I had known TRP when I was 18.

It's weird tho that allot of us exhibited signs of TRP knowledge, monk mode and whatever despite knowing about it. Some guys just have it in their genes.

The beta people I know react totally different to adversity. Crying and hugging mostly.

[–]MarvelousWhale0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I had the same thought. I took all the problems I've faced in life serious and found solutions to as many as I could, and still am. While my Beta friends are happy and content with their problems.

We would have found this out sooner or later while they may never see the light of day.

[–]epixs1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Can confirm, 21...wish found trp 10 years ago as well. Wish my dad didn't stop being alpha either (marriage is one hella of a drug...)

[–]1PrinceofSpades25 points26 points  (12 children) | Copy

Can confirm; if (and its a bigger if every day girl) I ever have children, they are receiving the alpha red pill talk somewhere around early middle school. Say what you will, but middle schoolers are smart and evil little fuckers, and that period of time shapes your life up until you get one chance to re-create it in college (and even then you have to know you need to change by then, most who need it don't, which is exactly how I made so much money life coaching my peers once I got it together over the course of sophomore and junior years of college). I would have killed to have a father figure properly teach me a basic version of red pill I could use to shape myself at the start of the 6th grade, then have advanced concepts trickle in as I went along.

[–]2All_fixed_again[S] 51 points52 points  (8 children) | Copy

My two boys are about are about 8 and 9. Their education has already started

[–]TaeTaeDS6 points7 points  (6 children) | Copy

Do you think they have any idea what happened?

[–]2All_fixed_again[S] 12 points13 points  (5 children) | Copy

My older one is smart and pretty mature for his age. I think he knows that mommy did something wrong. One day, when they are of age...and if they ask me to tell them, I will.

[–]rpkarma5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

My dad told me. I wasn't "supposed" to tell my younger brothers (they were 15 and 16), but I did. My brothers and I have a super strong relationship now, and we all have an even stronger one with our dad, despite the lies and bullshit my mum attempt to feed them. It was all her, and we all know it, but none of us make a big deal about it. It is what it is, and women are what women are. That conversation introduced me to TRP before there was a TRP.

[–]MarvelousWhale0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

She did nothing wrong.

Accept that YOU had been her Beta all this time. She has always been a woman, and she always will be. She is not at fault, neither is any woman. It is their nature.

Don't let that concept slip when you teach your children. Teaching them responsibility for their actions is invaluable. We are men, we must walk the higher path and guide those who are our subjects, be it woman or child.

[–]Bearhardy1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

What makes you think she did nothing wrong, if he failed as a husband she failed as wife too, I know that trp standa that whatever happen to us is our own fault but to say that she did nothing wrong is taking it far imo, awalt maybe true but not all women would have trown a 15yo relationship to the trash, maybe other women would have done it other way that it wouldn't destroy her marriage

[–]MarvelousWhale1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I wasn't being 100% literal, cheating on a marriage is obviously no bueno, but to tell the children she fucked everything up and that's why they are divorced is just untrue.

He wasn't playing her well enough and she lost interest so gradually after 15 years (honestly that's pretty good on her part to not cheat for THAT long) and she went to find some excitement.

[–]1PrinceofSpades0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

While it is sort of fucked up to say it, but be glad you have sons. At the very least it makes raising your children the right way a lot easier in the modern world. Glad to see you stepping up as a father.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

This is one of the few things I think the major religions have gotten right: 13.

Thirteen years old. The first teen year. Confirmation for the Catholics. Bar Mitzvah for the Jews. 12/13 was the time I came into my early individuality and autonomy. I could've used a guiding masculinity then.

[–]1PrinceofSpades3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Although I'm not religious myself, as of late I've begun to apply a broader world view backed by experience to the principles of religion and it makes a tremendous amount of sense from a multitude of angles. While it is poor for the individual, what it does for society is overwhelmingly positive.

Unfortunately we are seeing an increase in most societies as of late which places an important stress on individuality. However, the backlash of this 'freedom from the judgment of others' is basically the cheating/ slutting around that is so commonplace in today's world. I have no problems with the ideas behind women's rights or their original intentions, but to have such a movement occur nearly simultaneously in mankind's long history right alongside the introduction of the Internet was a huge problem.

Despite the many positive things the Internet has provided us with, such as a wealth of easily accessible information, it has also given us more access to the opposite gender in terms of availability and mating then ever before (now everyone on your girlfriend's facebook is the figurative milkman who she ends up cheating on you with, rather than just that guy in the small town scenario) ALONGSIDE an over-abundance of pornography and accompanying dulling stimulation in regards to sex, leading us to become thrill-seekers. I don't even need to mention how the media and what not has lapped this phenomenon all up and capitalized on it in every possible way; after all, that's their job, and sex sells. After all, a saying I picked up from shower thoughts I believe was simply "I have seen more naked women in my lifetime thanks to the Internet then all of my ancestors combined." Let that, and it's implications, sink in.

A lot of religious beliefs are very strict, especially when it comes to modesty and sex. They also are great at promoting society, preaching living with good moral values, etc at the cost of guiding the masses akin to sheep or other such livestock. Not a concept that sells well in "individualistic culture." Yet, with the loss of religion's importance (and in some regions, losing it entirely), so too is the modesty lost along with it. It becomes something to weave into one's life when it is convenient out of a fear of death, rather than something that is followed closely. As a result, sex-shaming before marriage has become something laughable. But is a world where that it exists really so wrong? Ideally, strict practices leads to virgin husbands and wives, who have very little reason to cheat out of boredom, because such a thing is viewed as a "sin," while simultaneously promoting their sex life through the taboos of things such as masturbation.

Don't get me wrong, the system is heavily borked in many ways, but that stems from being a system with origins from thousands of years ago. If it wasn't, then all the really kinky and fucked up sex I've had in my life wouldn't all come from the women who held religious beliefs to one faith or another. Non-religious girls are pretty straight forward lays, but fuck, religious girls know how to be bad in the best of ways. Great for me, probably great for her agenda, terrible for society and its improvement. Those girls were the LAST people I'd ever want to start a family with. Yet, those few who remain pure (personality wise at the very least with real family morals, etc. I could give less of a fuck if my wife lost her v-card to her boyfriend, but I also have no intention of ever marrying [if I go down such a route at all] someone who has been on the carousel and I'm just her last horse) are almost always those with religious backgrounds.

Despite not being religious at all myself, if I were to ever consider marriage with a woman born and raised in the good old USA, she'd almost certainly stem from a very religious background, but would also have to be intelligent enough to discern what was over the top olden practices and what still allowed her to remain a modest woman. Slim field, I'm not getting my hopes up. Even then, there would be one hell of a prenup.

What I'd really like to see would be a more modernized religion which cut the crazy, and threw in a big helping of grow the fuck up. Teaching maturity to both sexes, with how to be confident and a man's man to men, and how to be modest and selective to women, so that when they finally did end up with a wonderful life like OP's wife had, they wouldn't get bored and could instead learn some fucking unspoiled gratitude. Unfortunately, when you teach people these things they become harder to control, not easier, and that very much goes against many practices of old we cling so dearly to even as so many spit in the face of many of their core values, in one way or another depending on the religion in question (yes, I am not just talking about western religions here).

There's my rant for the day. Time to go be productive.

[–]jewishclaw6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

That's the fucked up thing about life in my observation. If you're willing to walk away, legitimately ready, you rarely have to. This goes for relationships with women, but it also goes for just about every other social interaction too - from buying a car to negotiating your salary to making friends.

[–]RedPillscientist1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, willing to walk is the knowledge and display that you do not need the other person, whether it be relationships, business, or friendships. Ultimately it's a display of self reliance.

Like you said, if you're willing to walk away, you rarely have to..and that's because people realize you're not going to be manipulated and they better watch their behavior when theyre dealing with you... so it never gets to escalates to the point as it did with OP.

That's why marriage is such bullshit. Marriage essentially lessens your self reliance by tying up your assets/has fire consequences with another person. Don't for a second think women don't realize in the back of their mind how much power gets transferred over to them after you get hitched. I think that's what they get excited about most.

[–] points points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–]2All_fixed_again[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

No, we have shared parental rights, every second weekend, during the week whenever I want and school holidays. She is happy for me to still be involved in their life. After all that she did to me, the last thing I was going to allow her to do was to turn me into an asshole in the eyes of my kids.

My kids (until they are of age) will never be introduced to any of my future partners, the "why" behind this is something I will cover in my next post...and my most recent LTR.

[–]Dylonspithotfiya0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Was the joy of having children worth all of this? I ask as a young man who wants to have children and give them a good life one day

[–]2All_fixed_again[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

The children are the only thing that bring me joy these days. I would however not wish this level of anguish on my worst enemy. If there were alternatives to having children without handing your ballsack to a woman, that is the option I would go for.

[–]Dylonspithotfiya0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

So maybe have children in an LTR if you absolutely must and be very aware of what can happen then

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you so much for making this post. Thank God I found TRP when I did. I was so fucking beta in past relationships, I'm disgusted with myself now. After reading this sub daily, with outstanding posts such as yours, I know I won't have to suffer as you did. Please know that while you went through hell and back, others won't have to because of the insight you were so kind to share. I know now, I will never, ever, EVER marry. Sure, I'll disappoint a fair amount of my family. But hell, it's not worth ruining my life to please them.

Here's to being all you can be as a man, and living the most enjoyable life. You reinvigorated me with this.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Whenever I read stories like this, I see the alternative timeline where I never found the red pill. It's so damn vivid and terrifying. Thanks for sharing.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (1 child) | Copy

Speaking of red flags:

She dropped her current boyfriend almost immediately to be with me.

If only OP had known...

[–]1KyfhoMyoba5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

The problem here is that every woman of any sort of quality will be with someone. If you want a woman with any kind of attractiveness, she will have some kind of placeholder you will have to out-compete.

Even virgins have preferences and are able to make comparisons.

[–]privatejohngarrett0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

The very first time she lied to him about talking to the other guy he needed to end it. By that point their relationship was a joke anyway. I kept thinking oh, well this time he'll surely tell her to gtfo...nope.

[–]PMME_YOUR_TITS_WOMAN0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

SERIOUSLY. Would have ditched the bitch before the choice of kids. EZ.

I can't say I've ever had a similar situation but I'd like to think I wouldn't bend over and take it even if I hadn't read trp stuff.

[–]dapperbrogrammer708 points709 points  (32 children) | Copy

Jesus, that's enough red pill for today.

[–] points points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–]S74RK62 points63 points  (4 children) | Copy

Your comment makes me realize how I scan TRP before I start my day. It's like building up the immune system before going out to be exposed to the various plagues of society. It doesn't take much to keep me healthy, but it does take a daily dose. The torrent of beta logic and expectations is unrelenting.

Yeah I think this as well. To add onto it, by spending time on these forums, I am trying to consciously de-condition myself from 2+ decades of bullshit. It's one thing to read the side bar once; it's another to expose your brain to TRP examples and theory day after day (and from others' perspectives) until it sinks into your subconscious and you start "getting it" when you're out and interacting with others.

[–]1Halfjor28 points29 points  (1 child) | Copy

Absolutely. You have to let it slowly and consistently sink in if you really want it to take hold. You can't red pill blitzkrieg your mind.

[–]rpscrote1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Your mind is Russia in the winter

[–]bluedrygrass0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

We need to rewire our brains, and it takes time.

It took decades to build our conditioning, to mold our brain to it; it will likely take years to completely adapt to the new reality.

[–]epixs0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Very true. Its like passive learning vs active learning. Once you reach active learning, you are now taking concepts and applying and understanding them in different situations along with critical thinking of those concepts to connect other concepts. At this stage you've reached the mastery stage of TRP .

[–]Tom_The_Human21 points22 points  (1 child) | Copy

I've had a few times over the year of my Red Pill existence when I've not looked at TRP for a week or two, and each time I've gone a bit beta. Repeated self indoctrination is absolutely necessary to block out society's bullshit.

[–]Strangeclouds4201 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Same here. Sometimes too much red pill makes me hate women and I end up being too much of an asshole to the point where it's unproductive. But too long of an absence and I tend to go soft on their true nature

[–][deleted] 12 points12 points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (6 children) | Copy

women are terrible at the don't shit where you eat rule. They seem to love fucking every coworker they can get their hands on, with complete disregard for the job itself.

[–]ceo_greasyduck19 points20 points  (4 children) | Copy

Uhhh...shouldn't that apply to the men that are screwing them as well?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

While yes, it tends to be 1-3 dudes fucking 5-10 women. The ratio is skewed a little. But yes men are also terrible at it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I don't understand your ratio

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Women empirically judge average men as below average.

The end result is typically the same as any other species of social mammalian groups.

Small numbers of men having sex with larger numbers of women. This has been proven in humans via analysis of hereditary male chromosomal patterns and via selection bias in more modern psychology white papers along with corrected self reporting partner counts. Women have higher partner counts at age 21 and I believe throughout than men do. The only way that works is in the above scenarios/ratios.

The theory is that most religions were used amongst other things as a tool to "force" 1 man to 1 woman as a means to incentivise the otherwise none selected males to work towards building civilisations. Afterall why would a man go out to lay stones all day if he had no wife or kids and never would?

Unshackled from religion and with the sexual liberation of the pill and feminism that mechanic is fading and we're back where we started with the majority of girls on tinder being fucked by the same top 15% of men.

The idea of TRP is to genuinely be a top 15%er and reap the rewards that are now set up for it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Because they find easy ways to get financially set up for life, as OPs wife did. Marrying OP was easily the best thing to happen to her, especially due to the dire financial situation he described she was in.

[–]BowlOfCandy4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Check out my post Plasticity. It's all about conditioning, our habits and way of functioning is plastic.

[–]Alarid2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I didn't pay for anything beyond my own expenses, and I'm fucking rolling in money compared to all the guys I know who chased girls instead of their own goals.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Man, I know this is late, but I thought I was the only one. Every morning after meditation, I scan TRP for my daily dosage. It truly makes a difference. Even if just scanning past threads.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Jesus fuck me christ. Makes the guy who buys a bitch a drink at a bar Einstein in comparison.

[–]rashnull24 points25 points  (0 children) | Copy

Reading your story gave me this heavy sinking feeling that I haven't felt for while (my recent breakup). You have come to the only place I know of that will show you how to heal and never get messed up again. Take care of your kids and yourself.

[–]laere32 points33 points  (1 child) | Copy

My mind was fucking blown. Side bar this shit.

[–]bakbakgoesherthroat6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

The cool thing is that, that feeling eventually goes away.

[–]colinKaepernicksHat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You can never have enough. Keep taking them until you OD and find yourself in a state of redpill unknown to humankind.

[–]SullenBarLurker0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

No way man, learn to love that choking feeling.

[–]87GNX0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I couldn't even finish this shit. I'm basically commenting here because I'm about to come back.

[–]Five_Decades0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I need a bit to read and digest it all.

[–]TestosteroneFilled-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

Honestly I'm just coping by making myself believe this is a troll post. Ignorance is truly bliss, fuck.

[–]MHOOD014 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

The red pill too much for you?

[–]shadowq81 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

That is wayyyyy too detailed for a troll post

[–] points points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 35 points36 points  (0 children) | Copy

Don't pay her shit buddy, keep your bread. Make her buy shit as much as you can. If she walks, better off for you.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Advice : write yourself a caution e-mail. List all the reasons why you should not do what NOW you know you don't want to do (get married for instance). She WILL try to make a big shit inside your head so this document will help you to think straight when tough decisions will need to be made.

[–]ShanksNes96 points97 points  (86 children) | Copy

Great post. I do want to ask you a question. Given what we know of redpill now, is fatherhood worth it? This is the last piece of the puzzle for me.

[–]2All_fixed_again[S] 107 points108 points  (47 children) | Copy

Thats a tough question, I love my kids and they are currently top priority in my life. Fatherhood is worth it and I would not trade it for the world. But, if you plan to have kids with a woman, you absolutely need to make sure that you know who she is...looking at her through a redpill lense. If I had done the same at the start of our relationship, I would never have had kids with her...as much as I love them. Perhaps I would have met another woman earlier that would have been more worthy.

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (9 children) | Copy

I love kids. I really want kids. But then I read stories like yours, and just yesterday I was reading through this story (21F finds out her mom has been lying about her father [fake molestation claims among them] and paternal grandparents for 18 years so she can have sole custody). I really thing best option is to have biological child through surrogacy, and if I can afford it that's the route I'm going.

[–]charlesbukowksi1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

I'm with you, but why do you want to have kids?

Do you see yourself as a parent already, for your future self?

[–]amidonemessedup6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

I want the future generations to be blessed with redpill genes. thats it

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

IDK. I've always enjoyed kids (taking care of cousins, nieces and nephews). Maybe I'm just bored. I'd like to think that passing on you genes is kinda the point of life and that may have something to do with it. Ultimately I'm not sure.

[–]Tofitrightin 22 points22 points [recovered] | Copy

One ironic thing about all these "don't have kids" posts, is that kids are pretty awesome. I'm lucky in that I found a worthy woman by chance. It could have gone your way too as while I was "semi" plugged in, nothing like this existed in the early 90's to caution you.

[–]BlackHeart891 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Speaking as a person who finds children to be nothing more than another hassle, I think I'll opt out of children. Same reason why I refuse to get a dog.

[–]Adach5 points6 points  (8 children) | Copy

Can you elaborate a bit more on analyzing her through a redpill lense? Obviously AWALT, so doesn't that imply that it's kind of a lost cause?

[–]2All_fixed_again[S] 12 points13 points  (7 children) | Copy

Well, there were between the line things in the first 5 years of our marriage:

  • Daddy issues - She saw me as her daddy, her dad died young so she desperately wanted someone to look after her...but dads aren't attractive.

  • Morphing - She did not have much of a personality, hobbies, passions of her own. After a couple of years I noticed that she was mimicking me, from telling my jokes, using my sense of humour, even following the same career path as me.

  • She always says she felt bad about withdrawing money out of our common account, but happily and regularly did it.

  • She would regularly hamster any responsibility. We once drove into London, I let her drive and while looking down at my phone, she drove into the back of someone. Her first reaction was to blame me for distracting her, then blame me for not warning her. The second example, a small thing. I filled up the dishwasher, she was emptying it out and slightly cut her finger on a knife as she was doing it...she screamed at me for not filling the dishwasher right. The last and craziest one, she blamed me for her mothers death at one point, her mom was 10,000km away and died of natural causes but I was somehow responsible because I "forced" her to come to the UK. When she came back from London and she was trying to fix things, she tried to make me take some responsibility for the break-up of our marriage. My response, you guessed it.."go fuck yourself"

  • A generally depressive person - someone who was an emotional leech, trying to keep her happy was a full time job. Not worth it.

[–]cmdcreep1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

Could you please elaborate on how Morphing(adopting your behaviour and tastes) is something bad? Pretty much every young person has it(specially young girls aching for a male authority figure). It so happens that I have a LTR with a very young girl(I'm not old myself, mid 20's) a and she has some aspects of it since she has a absent dad and since she haven't lived much herself.

[–]2All_fixed_again[S] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

Well, one of the things she raised at the end was that she did not have an identity and she wanted something for herself. She wanted to be "her own sexual being". This was essentially an identity crisis for her, she had willingly morphed into a person that she thought I would like over 15 years (very similar to me) and then resented and blamed me for her not having her own identity. She was not really a CC rider, she was with me throughout her twenties and early 30's...that was part of the problem. She got to her 30's and suddenly realised she missed the CC phase and figured...it was not too late to start now

[–]cmdcreep0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

This have much to do with another one of your points, she hamstering responsibility.

My point is, given all the red flags together, the sum of circumstances, they have much in relation to each other. Thus this flag alone doesn't seem to be neither red nor green, just a flag. Or at least that's the conclusion I come to.

Any further input of yours in regards to this is very much appreciated.

[–]2All_fixed_again[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Agree, the one lesson I have learned is that red flags need to be read in context. Like reading body language, a single signal might be meaningless, you need to read the signals as a cluster. Its the cluster of signals and red flags that drive the probabilities

[–]cmdcreep0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Also, how can daddy issues be bad? About this red flag, I'd really like some clarifying. I say that because my LTR is stablished in some sort of bdsm basis(I'm her master, she obeys, respects me and all that, she likes spanking, punishment/reward system and all), and this basis is not only in regards to sex. I know that's not exactly what you said when you wrote "if you provide for her(e.g. like her dad) you are BB", but now I have my head wondering on this issue.

EDIT: forgot to mention she calls me daddy and that I call her babygirl.

[–]2All_fixed_again[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Good for you. For me, Daddy="Pay for my shit". I am no womens daddy and don't aspire to that, only for my kids.

[–]VoyPerdiendo11 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This sounds like BPD (borderline personality disorder) to me :/

[–] points points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–] points points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–] points points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–]BleachedWhale2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

No I wouldn't go back and change things => Yes, I would still have kids

[–]ilikesquash22 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

That is a hard question to answer! I would do anything for my child! I love her so much it is the only absolute love i have ever experienced! Being a father also showed me what real true love is. Now ask if i could go back and not get married (but still have my child, I would never give her up) I would not get married in a hart beat!

[–] points points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–]reigorius0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I don't understand. What do you mean?

[–]ShanksNes0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for the reply and especially for the epilogue at the end. Hope and taking action are equally important.

[–]Bartand0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You would had not have kids with nobody, sad but truth. So we are in conflict here. Kids are the most important thing and if you do the woman will screwed you up. Thats indeed a tough question.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (13 children) | Copy

Good luck to you man, can you please keep us updated and are you still hacked in her account?

[–]2All_fixed_again[S] 22 points23 points  (11 children) | Copy

Will post a follow-up post which covers the period of 3 years ago until now. No, am not hacked into her accounts, when she came back from London, I knew all I needed to know. I had no interest in finding out more. I didn't really care anymore, felt nothing. She could have gangbanged 12 donkeys for all I care...it was...meh

[–]merodiaj3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

Will post a follow-up post which covers the period of 3 years ago until now.

Please do. We want to know if she ended up with Dave or some other Chode.

[–]2All_fixed_again[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Dave disappeared out the picture shorty afterwards from what I understand. Several months later I asked her how Dave was, she said they were just friends now and not talking much...he had a girlfriend. he pumped and dumped.

[–]merodiaj0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Wow, time and again, I am amazed how stupid women can be.

[–]strps2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Clearly you were in a deep anger phase, despite going cold with her. This is sometimes the best way to deal with anger that is so intense it threatens your freedom and the mental health of your children. I'd really like to hear how you processed this energy (anger being some of the rawest form of emotional energy) and used it to transform yourself consciously, beyond running yourself to fatigue . Props by the way (just so you know, I'm your age and also have children), most people don't have the strength to deeply change at this point in life, most just accept defeat.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Oh I thought it was more recent, didnt really pay attention. It does need a proper epilogue.

[–] points points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–]2All_fixed_again[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

The divorce happened in Germany, there is no fault divorce here and 50/50 child custody rights. The emails would have made no difference...it did not matter either.

[–]Catabisis 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Doesn't no fault apply only if neither party contests the divorce?

[–]2All_fixed_again[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Not actually sure, we never got to that point. In Germany you have to wait for a year after separation before you can officially apply for a divorce...at this point, it was long dead and both of us just wanted it over. We ended up using the same lawyer, it was cheaper and just a matter of filing paperwork.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Wish that forced wait existed in the USA - divorce court might be less deliberately antagonistic that way.

[–]tuxedoburrito2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Man I'm excited to see the next chapter of this story about how he got his life around

[–]docbloodmoney16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy

Fatherhood isn't necessarily a problem, it's the government institution of marriage that is a disaster. I would gladly have and raise children if something drastically changed in our society.

[–]BeautyQuark13 points14 points  (6 children) | Copy

As another fellow married (now RP, still married at the moment, wife has not cheated) guy of almost 2 decades this is the hardest question to answer. My children are wonderful, but my wife, and her family fucked them up when I was working an off shift and going to school full-time. It has taken me YEARS to undo most of the damage. This was my fault as my wife has been faithful, but she was abused as a child and I ignored the red-flag.

Considering the above I cannot imagine my life another way as I am happy with who I am and where I am. However, I strongly advise my oldest son to stay away from any girls with an LTR in mind. I encourage him to work towards his happiness and building a life that will let him achieve his goals. I also point out RP knowledge indirectly about women, and he agrees with the information from experiences he has seen.

In the end if I had to do it all over again, and still have my kids? I would have waited until my mid-thirties to early forties before starting my family. However, I would have been going into it with eyes wide-open.

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (5 children) | Copy

I would have waited until my mid-thirties to early forties before starting my family.

I'm 35 and I ain't doing it. I see human nature and I'm repulsed by it. Calling humans viruses is not far-fetched.

[–]BeautyQuark8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

I can't fault that one bit. Any man that has kids will pay a very high price, one way or another.

[–]deepfriedcocaine6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

I figure I'm fine from a biological perspective if one of my brothers reproduces.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Why does reproduction repulse you? It is a fundamental feature of all living things to reproduce.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

human nature, not reproduction

[–]SpawnQuixote10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy

Besides women, kids are the #1 way for the government to get into your business. I would refrain because the government is really ramping up the "getting into your business" business.

[–]1ErasmusOrgasmus2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

In a depressing-as-fuck thread, this made me chuckle.

[–]notTRPyet7 points8 points  (25 children) | Copy

My situation is similar to what OP described. I was with my first wife for 13 years, we had 3 kids and it was only after the 3rd child that the sex dropped off. She went to work and started to work her way up the ladder, started to look after herself more, got her own account etc. My kids were like 3, 8 and 9 and as soon as I got back she would go out.

So eventually she drops the bomb. She doesn't think it is working and if I love her I will move out, give her space and see what happens. I begrudgingly agree and pray/cross my fingers for about 2 months before I crack and tell her I want her out. She had already found a house, furnished it and was ready to move.

I can't understand how she can afford it? but it turns out she had remortgaged the house beyond it's worth to an interest only deal (just before the financial crisis). So somehow our £100k house was costing me £850 per month interest only.

To cut a long story short, she had fell in love with somebody else. My kids were going to be raised by somebody else.. As it turns out it was another woman. Maybe this softens the blow, or maybe I am an idiot but I wouldn't change it. My kids have turned out great and are a credit to my ex and her partner.

TL;DR if the meaning of life is to procreate then yes.

[–]lugubriusTRP5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

if I love her I will move out, give her space and see what happens

Fugg the way she phrased that puts me back in the anger phase

[–]flying-gogoplata16 points17 points  (13 children) | Copy

Um, are you really allowing and crediting your ex wife who left you and her lesbian lover with raising your kids? You better step in on that shit before your kids turn out completely fucked up...

[–]notTRPyet4 points5 points  (11 children) | Copy

Yes I am crediting her for raising my kids. She did a great job, they aren't fucked up. They are doing well at school and it isn't like they have another male competing. They obviously got shit at school but what do they say? what doesn't kill you?

I am still Daddy and awesome in their eyes, which is nice.

At the end of the day, 3 awesome kids are going to spread my genes which is kinda the meaning of life.

[–]flying-gogoplata7 points8 points  (10 children) | Copy

I hope you get involved in your kids life enough before your fucked up ex wife raises them to be as fucked up in the head as her. There is no way you should be crediting your ex with raising your children, and it's really sad to credit the lesbian homewrecker lover with raising your children.

Not trying to be mean, but like your username says, you haven't swallowed the pill yet, it's so obvious.

Children cannot be properly raised without a constant father figure in their life. This is a core tenant of TRP.

[–]notTRPyet1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy

I am as involved as any other estranged father is. At the end of the day, parents do split up. I am not sure what you are suggesting? Maybe I move in with them? Kidnap them?

I am way past the anger stage, it isn't ideal but rocking the boat and acting like it is something dirty is counterproductive and would have a negative effect on my kids life. Sometimes we must let go and move on. I have.... but I am still their Dad in every way possible. By validating their home life I have just made the best out of a bad situation.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Edit: My standpoint is from a parenting view, not a relationship view so feel free to ignore. I have no desire to get back with my ex. As far as I am concerned, she has no sausage wallet.

[–]flying-gogoplata4 points5 points  (7 children) | Copy

Um, do you know what estranged means? It means you're not close, not involved, you said it yourself....

Look, I don't know how much time you spend with your children, but I hope for their sake it's at least a 2-3 nights a week. This "every other weekend" bullshit is not enough.

I don't think you've swallowed any pill yet to even hit the anger stage. You have 5 posts in TRP and they are all blue pill as fuck. It even sounds as if you almost still respect this women who totally fucked your life over.

A real man would demand half custody of his children, and make sure his ex and lesbian lovers rhetoric they are driving into the childrens head are being countered by their father stepping in and providing the males point of view. You know, how to talk to girls, how to fight, how to play sports, how to deal with bullies, all the bullshit women can't teach properly.

I don't know your situation so I Can't tell you if your wrong or not, but if you are "estranged" to your children you're definitely fucking up as a man and a father and I suggest you nut the fuck up and get back into the picture, and if it requires a legal process to do it, then that's what it is.

[–][deleted] 4 points4 points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–]notTRPyet1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Haha... I hadn't seen that before. Err... no.

[–]1cover200 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You're still the alpha and they carry your genes. They are a credit to YOU and never forget it. No need to let these women forget it either.

Beta bucks is a female. Fitting, since it's not a sexual attraction involved. She can disrespect another female for raising someone else's kids same as she can disrespect a beta bucks male.

[–]1KyfhoMyoba-3 points-2 points  (5 children) | Copy

it was another woman. Maybe this softens the blow

Dude. Alpha up, continue to lift and eat right, maintain friendly, teasing relationship with her, and she'll be back, and if you game her GF, she might bring her with her to you, too.

[–]notTRPyet1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

There is more to the story... I wouldn't have her back even if I could. I have maintained a good relationship with her. However the relationship went cold, and forgive me of the stereotypes but her new partner is kinda blokeish.

Since then I did Alpha up etc. When I was 35 I went on numerous dates and was doing really good. But the 'unicorn' snatched me. Although I didn't meet her in her work she was an Escort. This was again ages before I arrived here so forgive me for ignoring the warning signs. What is it that was said about the eligibility tests. When I went through them a few weeks back she failed them all.

I will try to get something written down to provide a context but losing my wife and kids was nothing in comparison to what my new wife put me through.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

You got married again? We must have different definitions of "alpha up." You're killing me here.

[–]notTRPyet0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I agree, it was a mistake. A big one. Not one I would repeat.

[–]1cover200 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Can't you force your way back into your kids' life? You are still too agreeable to what women tell you to do. That's OK, just realize it and remind yourself to say no more than yes, focus on your self and your children first. We all have weaknesses, and this is one of yours.

It's undeniable. Anyone who would move out "if you love me" has that tendency, and you've got to counteract it.

[–]notTRPyet0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I am not out of their lives. I just live elsewhere, I know it isn't always the case but they are better off with their Mother. I get to have fun with them and have days out.

This is an argument that I can't win I suppose.

[–]1cover20-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

For me fatherhood is a major thing I wanted to do in my life. Call it a top bucket-list item if you want, but that seems to trivialize it.

When you're married, be aggressive. Do not allow it to be a dead bedroom. She will push you away, keep coming. Don't worry, unless things are terribly far gone (I've not really heard of this happening) it isn't rape, it's your role as her husband. But you have to know this, you don't ask her what your role is.

[–]RedSugarPill41 points42 points  (11 children) | Copy

Thanks for sharing, OP.

What amazes me is that, for women, the urge to cheat on the father of their children can be so great, that they are willing to risk their families to get a single strange dick for a night. Once a completely irrational and selfish decision has been made, they sometimes cannot scare themselves from causing family destruction.

No self control is an understatement, but paradoxical as well: The woman had enough self control to lose weight, but not enough to pause and consider the consequences of her actions for a night of passion. Amazing.

[–]BlackHeart891 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy

Its sort of depressing. Reading this shit makes me wonder if the love of my life ever went around fucking other dudes during the time we were still talking.

But at the same time, all these stories seem to have something in common. Beta provider... which I never was. I don't know man. It makes me want to cut this woman off now. Just the thought of her fucking other dudes makes me want to next her.

[–]RedSugarPill1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

The truth about the human condition can be very difficult to accept at first. What you don't know can protect you (i.e., your ego). If you wish to know and accept the truth of the human condition, you have to be brave — you have to kill your ego, but it can propel you to new heights of fulfillment that are obtained by very few people. If you are ready for and want that particular journey (there are many acceptable paths and journeys), then go for it, and get your support in good places (e.g., here). The highest level of understanding is beyond my current knowledge, but I am way past the level of caring whether my lover is sleeping around. If you don't want to know, it's totally OK. At first, The Red Pill is far uglier than the scene in The Matrix, but if you can get to the next level, and beyond, you will discover the essence of your own existence — you will love yourself, I promise. Choose your pill, my friend — either one is completely OK and both result in an acceptable way of life. Just know what you want, and go for it.

Oh, and, I almost forgot: No matter what, go to your temple of iron and lift weights to the stars!!!

[–]BlackHeart891 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for the wisdom, brother.

Fortunately, I've already swallowed the pill. I already have some plates. Its just this one particular woman that concerns me. Even then, I don't dwell on it for long. I would just hate to treat her like the others before confirming that she's full of shit. To be honest, she has motivated and encouraged me to want more out of life. So at the very least, I feel I owe her the opportunity to "prove" that she isn't shit before I assume it. She came long before my new found confidence. Everyone else isn't so lucky.

[–]cmdcreep0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

I get your concerns. I really do. I'm in a similar situation. The difference is that I deal with it and don't waste my time worrying. Here's my perspective:

I always consider the plausible scenario. Is it possible that the girl you are seeing have done this? Of course it is. Is it probable? If you have never been a beta provider, then no. The truth no one will never know. This is this kind of healthy distrust you should have: To remember yourself that she is just like any other girl, and that she could cheat on you eventually. Remember, AWALT. Just because she has never expressed any red flags, this doesn't mean she is not going to sometime down the line.

No one will ever know the true nature of anyone, because to perceive that, it depends on the circumstances. Someone's nature is demonstrated along the way, on the reaction to how the circumstances presents themselves. Some people are just more likely to do so than others just because, nature. And some groups of people are more likely to do so than others because of how the person was raised, thus nurture. That's what this thread discusses: Nature and Nurture of given gender. On how to identify LTR material through red and green flags, on how to avoid CC riders. When to close in, when to bail out.

The problem I've seen with your perspective is expectation. You expect way too much from that person to the point where you feel insecure if she has done it or not, and that because of this, she will not be able to give you what you want, that is, a unicorn girl. If you knew, crystal clear, that there are no unicorns and that since you are not going to marry/have kids with said woman, then your mind would be way lighter. There would be no expectations. Then, your only concern would be "have she done it while dating me?", and after all, that's the only concern worth having, so that you never let your guard down and express beta behaviour, such as thinking "she would never do this because she loves me", "our relationship is more than sex", "it's ok to her to casually flirt", and so on.

Not having these concerns makes things way easier. Easier to have a logical perception of things. Easier to maintain frame and give no emotional response, but rational ones.

Hope my insight helped.

EDIT: I assumed a couple of things. In case they are not true, just ignore.

[–]BlackHeart891 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

EDIT: I assumed a couple of things. In case they are not true, just ignore.

Very insightful post. And I have to give you even more credit for this edit. Lol

But yeah. This is the only chick I feel this way towards. I have a few other plates that I'm spinning. But my main plate is an ex. She's definitely not a unicorn. I don't dwell on it, but every now and then, the sick feeling will hit me for a few short minutes and I'm back to normal. Whenever I feel that way, for the few minutes, I want to cut her off completely. No one else has this effect on me. But she came far before I developed the the confidence I have now. I don't believe we'll last. But I'd like for her to cut me off and fuck with other people as opposed to doing it while we're still (sort of) together.

[–]cmdcreep0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Let me assume a couple more things, then: She desperately came back to you when you starting acting more alpha than the previous you she met? Yes or Yes?

I have a modus operandi that when I cease sexual intimacy with a plate for whatever reason("I want a relationship","I want to be more than that", "I like you but that's not what I want" or even when I find better plates), I just cut them off completely from my life and almost always never see them again. This way I'm never getting back to exes of any sort and avoid irritation. When the contact ceases friendly, I cut them off slowly: don't start conversation anymore, having short and meaningless conversations until they start no more conversations at all. When it ceases with strict, it's just a abrupt end, such as sometime ago a girl said "we should be making out, I really like you"(she was a HB5 and lived in another city, so it was not worth my time and money) and even after I explicitly said "we are not going to make out" she wanted to keep contact. I kept some sort of contact to her and she was trying to make advances on me, here and there, but I completely ignored them. Then eventually she got tired of it(girls don't know how to be rejected) she said "you bore me", then I just answered with a "bye" and cut contact. She desperately kept posting stuff that had some sort of relation to me(things we talked about, things we shared) to this date. All started about 7 or 8 months ago. By acting like this I always keep a good impression and maintain my frame. I'm not sure how TRP thinking is in regards to keep contact with exes or not, but that's how I came to it.

Both ways they all seem to come back, since they know how I handled things and kept my frame. So when it's hard for them to find it elsewhere, they come back.

Most of the time, you know when the girl is a mess, or a CC rider, and you know when cheating on her part is likely(of course, if you know what to look for). But sometimes they are really good in hiding it, that's when you need to be aware and not have anything similar to this.

If your gut feeling is more akin to insecurity(and it seems to be), and you don't seem to get rid of it, then just drop the plate and get rid of it. You need confidence always. If my presumption was true, you met her when you had a beta behaviour, so chances are you still like her(and it takes a long fucking time to get rid of this kind of shit). These feelings are not productive. And given that you yourself have no interest in keeping it, other plates can provide what she does to you. I see no reason to keep contact.

[–]BlackHeart891 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

I had to re-type this 3 times to avoid making a life story between me and her. Lol

In short, I left her at one point and we ended up getting back together a few months later. Since then, my smv has been steadily rising and she loves it.

She's a pretty awesome chick (relatively speaking). I don't believe we'll last much longer due to both of us. I'll accept that once it happens. I really don't think she's the type of chick to do shit behind someone's back, but I accept that I could be wrong. But regardless of any of that, I want to see her get on her feet before we part ways. And I really can't let her go until she fucks up. I have enough confidence to drop her if she becomes a problem.

She's one of the more rational people I know. If not for her family's mental problems, I wouldn't mind having a kid with her.

EDIT: Bc = birth control

[–]cmdcreep0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Guess I get you, now. The only thing though, I'm not sure what bc stands for. Would it be birth control?

[–]BlackHeart890 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

How the fuck did you respond so quickly?! It has only been like, 5 sec!

Anyway, yeah. Birth control. My bad.

[–]cmdcreep0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I've been browsing Reddit all day long for a while recently. But I get you now.

[–][deleted] 81 points82 points  (2 children) | Copy

This is pretty much the "married version" of "Michael's Story" in the sidebar. Fine storytelling, and welcome back to dignity. We've been waiting for you.

Stickied.

[–]sumdumguy-throwaway 149 points149 points [recovered] | Copy

newbs: an exercise for you: explain why these are red flags:

She dropped her current boyfriend almost immediately to be with me.


she had taken a 1 year break after high school to figure out what she wanted to do with her life


I paid for her studies and she lived with me rent free.


After a while the sex dropped off


[–]blacwidonsfw64 points65 points  (1 child) | Copy

  1. Branch swinger, you are just the next branch

  2. Incapable of making important decisions and likely to get bored easily. Also hints at a lack of spine. Aka "goes with the flow". Aka goes with the cock.

  3. BB, sees you as something she has and can exploit not something she desires

  4. If she's not sexing you it's someone else.

[–]1PantsonFire12341 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

That first red flag was all I needed to know. If a girl leaves a guy for me then guess what. She will treat me with the same favor one day.

Every guy knows this subconsciously but are often to desperate or balls deep in charm to see it for what it is. This holds true for allot of red flags in the beginning. You ignore them.

[–]S74RK34 points35 points  (0 children) | Copy

There were more, though perhaps more subtle red flags:

Her father had passed away when she was 8

An absent father leads to father issues. Obviously this is not her fault in any way. Life's just shitty like that.

she remained working at the stationary store, struggling to help her mom pay the bills…very little future prospects, stuck in a rut.

After the OP included this detail, I could see the rest coming a mile away, with regards to financials.

Again, neither of these are the girl's fault. But they are red flags nonetheless, and if you want to see reality for what it is and protect your best interests, you acknowledge them.

As a counter-point, I was very hesitant a while back to go out with this girl who was clearly financially troubled. But she was still willing to save up her money to split bills at my request, and in return I was very happy to suggest lower cost (or free) venues. This is one of the few examples of when a girl can turn a red flag around. But for all I know she was playing for some kind of long con (split the meals, get the house ;)

Cheers to the OP for sharing such a harrowing experience. He was fine before her... And 15 years later... He'll be fine without her.

[–][deleted] 28 points29 points  (0 children) | Copy

[deleted]

What is this?

[–]1London-Bananas72 points73 points  (14 children) | Copy

2 is actually legit and better than starting immediately racking up debt studying medieval literature or something. But on the other hand it's not debt if BB OP pays

[–]FuriousMouse71 points72 points  (7 children) | Copy

When a girl tells you she needs to "figure out what she wants" she is saying she is going to ride the CC.

[–]1London-Bananas12 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy

Isn't that much more effective in college though? I mean it always seemed to me this was the main reason they "study" these bullshit courses anyways.

[–]fliphopanonymous8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Probably not more effective in college, just more expensive. There are plenty of guys in and not in college who would love to take a young girl home and they wouldn't even ask (or care) if she was in college. Hell, he ran into her at a bar...

[–]A_DERPING_ULTRALISK7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Or maybe she doesn't have daddy to pay for her college?

[–]Seishuu3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

Meh. In this case taking a year off can be legit ; I'm doing it right now and I'm a guy. Plus, riding the CC is very possible while in college.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

How do you know taking a year off is legit if it hasn't led you anywhere yet?

[–]Seishuu1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

My year off started a month ago, I'll go travelling and working abroad for most of the year.

[–] points points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

To be honest travel helps you change your outlook and both expands and shrinks your world view, however most women don't travel.

[–]Turkerthelurker21 points22 points  (0 children) | Copy

This was my thinking. The year off college isn't a red flag in itself.

[–]1PrinceofSpades3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'd strongly argue it is more of a flag in the states (at least the wealthier areas where even the high school retards end up at community college), but it really depends more on financial situation or rare & pressing matters that can come up more than anything else. It is only a flag if neither of those things are present. At least in OP's story this wasn't a flag based on the back story he gave.

[–]draketton0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

if someone living in the US is cynical about the "you have to go to college and get a degree asap" line that's good not bad

[–]roteroktober-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

2 is always code for partying and getting fucked a lot, it's never about doing doing something meaningful or self improvement.

[–]collidoscope42 points43 points  (10 children) | Copy

I don't see a problem with #2...  

2 years later, our bedroom still dead…we agree to have kids  

This however...

[–][deleted] 35 points36 points  (3 children) | Copy

deleted What is this?

[–]collidoscope7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy

You can still do all that while you're in college...

[–]19963929 points30 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes and many women do, but to forsake any career development, any educational development, any kind of building at all means she chose what's fun and easy right now over a future. It shows a lack of willpower and a selfish, hedonistic personality. These are the same traits that lead to her chasing Dave's cock all the way to London. This is why it's a red flag for ltr.

Now personally I don't believe you should ever settle into an ltr, so these "red flags" don't matter to me, but that's where I differ from many others here.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

sucking cock while earning a degree vs. sucking cock while earning nothing

[–]Kill_Your_Ego29 points30 points  (4 children) | Copy

She had taken a year after high school to inhale as much cock as possible. Definitely a red flag. If you can speak to people who knew her around this time, other girls, and get them a bit drunk then talk about those "fun years" and find out AWALT.

In case you are still confused about that.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Regarding #2:

The first thing that came to my mind was CC. However, it might have been something different (:

[–]Mouthpiece5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

As soon as I saw number one, I was practically shouting at my computer screen: "bail out! Bail out!"

Sounds like OP has learned all the hard lessons in the most painful way, but now has his life back on track. I look forward to part two, the update. Hopefully it'll be a little more cheerful than this one was.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

She dropped her current boyfriend almost immediately to be with me.

Branch swing. She dropped the boyfriend (=the provider) so what she branch-swinged for was a better provider (=blue pill beta husband provider material)

she had taken a 1 year break after high school to figure out what she wanted to do with her life

CC

I paid for her studies and she lived with me rent free.

Provider (or idiot, or both)

After a while the sex dropped off

At least I got the ring and the children, now I have the power and I don't even have to give him sex anymore.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

#1 Branch-Swinging Intensifies

#2 The very famous time off to "figure out who you are and what you want to do with your life" a.k.a riding the carousel until her vagina was split in half

#3 Being this much of a beta-provider hurts to read, but we've all been there. Props to op for growing massive testicles over the course of 8-10 weeks (I think).

#4 She is disgusted at the thought of having sex with her beta provider, she isn't attracted to him and she is most likely fucking someone else again

[–]TYRONE_LOVES_KFC4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

1.Branch swinging.

  1. Is a valid reason.

  2. That's being a beta provider. She starts taking you for granted.

  3. Why would anybody stop sex if they find their SO attractive?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I dont mind the year off thing. A lot of kids who fail out of college due to immaturity should have taken a year off before entering

[–]ruorgimorphu0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I want to make a comment and maybe this is a good place since you mentioned newbs. I hate to poke when it's so emotionally charged, but I want to point out AWALT (looking for a different woman who is more worthy is not quite the right tack OP and readers...) I think the way to go is to point your energy at yourself, and if you're growing in life, that's what you need. And of course fitness. Rather than looking for red flags for a given woman, look for warnings signs that your game isn't good enough. They don't behave like this if you have the power to move on and aren't needy. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[–]1KyfhoMyoba0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

She dropped her current boyfriend almost immediately to be with me.

The problem here is that every woman of any sort of quality will be with someone. If you want a woman with any kind of attractiveness, she will have some kind of placeholder you will have to out-compete.

Even virgins have preferences and are able to make comparisons.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

1.) No loyalty. You can't expect women to be loyal, but it also indicates that she is flakey. The guys she chooses to be with are likely for shallow or selfish reasons. She doesn't know how to form a good relationship, how to evaluate her value, and choose a mate based off of that.

2.) I don't really know. I mean, I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life out of high school. I started college undeclared. The worst I can say is that I feel most successful people DO know what they're going to do going into college. It indicates drive. Those that take a year off college probably can't make the best of where they are, value what they have, and believe in some magic special grass is always greener situation.

3.) Does this one even need a response

4.) She used sex to secure what she wanted from the relationship, but wasn't really attracted to the guy.

[–]thefisherman1961-3 points-2 points  (2 children) | Copy

2 doesn't necessarily mean she's riding the CC

[–]Ringoddess -2 points-2 points [recovered] | Copy

^This. Like you know, some ladies ain't as interested in random hookups as y'all think. I took a year off to go abroad to a country I had always wanted to immigrate to, I worked as a server and cleaning lady, improved my Korean, went to songwriter meet-ups to find ppl to play music with, otherwise spent tons of time reading and watching lectures to figure out what I wanna study, and travelled a bit after saving up money. This whole time my only romantic interest was still the same guy I have been head over heels for since my teens lol.

[–]1independentmale88 points89 points  (16 children) | Copy

She wanted me to move out…I told her to go fuck herself.

She wanted to sleep in the main bedroom...it was her room. I told her to go fuck herself…

Her car broke down, she called me…I told her to go fuck herself and call “Dave”.

Bravo!! This is how it's done.

I was married for 15 years. My ex never worked a day, I paid for everything. She treated me like shit, rarely fucked me, didn't respect me, didn't appreciate me and just like you, I reached my breaking point and quit giving a fuck. As the marriage failed, she also demanded I sleep on the couch and tried to kick me out of my home, but I quickly realized that I held all of the power and refused to go anywhere. She screamed, she cried, she made demands and threats and ultimatums... I remained unmoved. Eventually, we went through the process of divorce and she moved out. It was hell, but I'm a better man for having gone through it.

I wonder, how is your ex doing these days? My experience has been that women who pull this shit turn out way worse off in the end. After they burn through the settlement money and the spousal & child support runs out, they wind up broke and destitute while the ex husband moves on to bigger and better things. Maybe it's because the men I work and hang out with are all relatively high earning professionals... My ex has been gone about 3 years. She's still single, she's working for minimum wage, struggling to make ends meet. The six figures in cash she walked with are long gone, pissed away on frivolities. I take no joy in this, though I do find satisfaction that she now knows I was the best she'll ever have. Stupid bitch threw away a six figga nigga who blindly loved her in spite of herself.

[–]rossiFan41 points42 points  (3 children) | Copy

Not OP, here, but I was in an identical situation 6 years ago. My ex is homeless. She has been married and divorced. She is broke. She has had two cars repossessed. She has run out of people to mooch off of, including churches and family. My kids don't ever want to see her, but for their sake, they do go spend the night with her at her aunt's house twice a month. It's always less than 24 hours. I've always been able to make just about as much money as I wanted to; work/life balance was the only constraint. For her, 4500sq ft houses and brand new SUVs every two years was the norm.

Like your ex, she cashed out the retirement settlement and blew it all in short order - without paying the IRS. In the audit, they found more fraud, and stuck it to her. She tried to claim my kids on a tax return, and was busted because I filed first, and was within the law.

The shit train will continue to ride over her because: karma, that's why.

[–]CharlieIndiaShitlord16 points17 points  (2 children) | Copy

Karma is a beautiful concept, but unfortunately it isn't real.

Those we often wish bad karma upon, are the kind of people who will fuck themselves over regardless.

[–]RedditArgument22 points23 points  (0 children) | Copy

True, however if you consider it from less of a 'mythical force' concept and instead more of a cause and effect concept it often does work.

She spent her life mooching and overspending while improving nothing of herself and creating a way of life lacking any ounce of forbearance. Karma doesn't magically punish her because she was bad, it punishes her as a result of her own stupidity and lack of self-control.

Karma is just a quicker way of saying "they did stupid/evil shit, and that stupid/evil shit had consequences." Like you said they're quite effective at fucking themselves over, no cosmic intervention necessary.

[–]real-boethius11 points12 points  (1 child) | Copy

Her car broke down, she called me…I told her to go fuck herself and call “Dave”.

This happens all the time with divorced friends . The ex rings up "Can you pave my back yard?"

What part of "we're divorced" don't you understand?

After they burn through the settlement money

I know three women currently doing this. Treating capital built up over many years as current income. People wonder why the savings rate in this country is zero. The women are spending the money and the men are paying "child support" and official alimony.

[–]TRP VanguardJP_Whoregan10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

During my BP days, I dated a single mother of two kids who was collecting child support from the daddy. A large sum of that child support money went into my gut in the form of high end sushi. I'd literally watch her pull out her CS Visa card to pay for dinner.

Poor bastard. Oh, well, that's what he gets for marrying.

[–]2All_fixed_again[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

During the Dave Phase and for about 3 months after, she had the typical "I dont need no man" attitude. The world was her oyster now that she was rid of me....which was fine. I sat back sipping my Vodka Tonic and watched the train wreck unfold. She got to a point where reality kicked in. She was a HB5 single mother with 2 kids, the rich hunks weren't exactly lining up at the door...she settled, with another BB who was happy to commit.

..and I am not sure how much of the settlement she has already blown. I have seen her make some nonsensical financial decisions but hey...thats not my bag!

[–] points points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–]1independentmale20 points21 points  (4 children) | Copy

You don't. I lost about 2/3rds. Entire 401k plus many other assets in exchange for the equity in the home, which she had no hope of ever making the payments on anyway.

She tried to demand the home. I said, "Great! You can have it. I'll take the 401k and the other assets. In six months when the bank forecloses because you can't make the payments, I'll buy it at the foreclosure auction for half its value. Please, please, please take the home."

(Really, I wanted it and was willing to buy her out of it. She caved.)

[–] points points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–]1independentmale7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy

Depends on the person. Each of us will have a different answer to that question. For some, the risk of a break up and child support payments are worth it. For others, they may not be. It also depends on the woman you choose to be the mother of your children. While my wife was decidedly crazy, I got lucky in that she's a decent mother who loves her children and knows they need their father too. As a result we didn't fight over them at all. We split custody 50/50 and there have been no arguments or problems around this. Other men are not so lucky. If a woman wants to take your children away from you, it's relatively easy for her to do so. Many times she will turn them against you while using them to extract every last cent of wealth she can.

I've pondered the question of my own children many times. If I had things to do all over again, would I have kids? I don't think I would, to be honest. My marriage would have dissolved far sooner if it weren't for the kids (I stayed for them) and I'm pretty sure I'd have been better off dumping that nutcase a long, long time ago. That being said, now that I do have kids, I wouldn't trade them for anything. I love them so much. I would die for them without hesitation.

So what's a RP man who wants children to do? I'd find a suitable girl, LTR her, move her in with me, keep all assets separate and see how things go. I'd buy the house and pay for all living expenses so there would be no question who it belonged to in the event of a breakup. If everything is still peachy three-ish years in, then I'd go ahead and have children with her. I would definitely not marry, I would paternity test (always), and I would demand the child takes my last name well in advance. I may also consider some sort of agreement stipulating joint 50/50 custody in the event of a breakup, but I don't know if there is a legal way to do that - would have to discuss it with a family law attorney.

I've no idea how possible it would be to find a decent woman willing to play by these rules. From what I've found, they really want to be married. I can't blame them for this, it's a huge security blanket & free ride for them with the majority (if not all) of the risk and expense shouldered by the man. Unfortunately, at my age (mid thirties now) marriage is completely off the table. I absolutely must have the ability to walk away from a relationship without giving up everything I've worked so hard to build. I lost so much in my divorce; I can't afford to make that mistake again.

[–]DistantWinter13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy

Not trying to hijack the thread, but I see a lot here about having kids and not getting married. I added context instead of hard points for reference.

I was in a 15 year LTR and have three children with her. Her child from the previous life came with the package.

This is how I did it:

Six months after the birth of my first born I was getting hammered on getting married. By her, my parents, her parents, and friends. I bought her an engagement ring from the mall and gave it to her in the parking lot of the mall and told her this is her engagement ring. I didn't ask her to marry me I just gave her the ring to shut her up. I had no intentions of marrying her. None.

I avoided the conversation of marriage. I'd bag on it when ever I hear statistics. Talk about how bad it must have been after watching time and again her relatives get divorced. I really downplay it's importance. Don't get it wrong though. We fought hard about it. I never moved from my position of lets wait and see. Every fight set back any talks of marriage.

I would never co sign anything. Her credit was horrible and I made it very clear I would never put her name on credit until she improved it on her own. This gave me great leverage when buying anything. Side note and out right brag: When she left her credit score was 482 mine is 772. I never shared a bank account or loan until I purchased the new home. We never ever co mingled finances. Her money was hers and mine was mine.

Here is what you need to know:

In my state since I was never married I have/had no legal rights to my children this has no bearing on child support. She has "Custodial Rights" to the children and could do what ever she wanted when ever. This was step number one legally called a custody agreement. Talk to a mens rights lawyer that is licensed in your state.

Since we shared the loan for the home I had to pay her half the equity of the home and refinance in my own name. This was step two called short sale. Think of it like this. In the eyes of the court since I wasn't married to her it was as if you and I partnered up and bought a home, but now you want to sell me your half of the home and move on.

Do not ever under any circumstances co mingle financial accounts. Many reasons, but the best is if this goes south you are protected.

Here is where it gets interesting:

Matters of my loves:

I had to get paternity tests to prove paternity and my name had to be on the birth certificates before the judge would validate the custody agreement. There are a lot of caveats in a custody agreement, but the main thing is she cannot move my children from the three county area without my or the courts consent. My lawyer put in an injunction ASAP from letting her leave the state over 24 hours and it was approved before the custody agreement was even looked at. This was key, because my ex did kidnap my kids and take them out of state without my knowledge. Side note: She did this with her other child too.

Matters of the home:

She came to me and wouldn't negotiate a time line of paying her for the home. She wanted her money now. Her exact words "Fuck you. Give me my money I want out." My response "One thing you are forgetting. You and I were never married so I don't have to give you shit and who ever is coaching you forgot this bit of information." Seeing her face drop was priceless and I'd pay to see that again.

Since I wasn't married legally I didn't have to sell the home due to pending divorce. I had all the time in the world to pay her half of the equity.

Matters of finance:

Upon leaving she didn't get half of any of my retirement accounts. No finances were co mingled so no accounts to get drained or ran up. The cars were in my name. Her college loans were in her name only. I wrote her a check for her equity and she signed the sale of the home contract. She blew through it in 4 months.

Legally everything in the house was mine now. The cars are mine. All the monies are mine. My children were legally mine and I have 50/50 custody. I pay child support, but it's a fair amount. I carried none of her debt and she packed her shit in an envelope and moved out.

This was a painful walk and looking back you'd think this was a well thought out plan. Nope. It was pure, dumb luck. I only headed the wise mans advice and never got married. Would I do it all over again? Yes.

Edit: I use a lot of absolutes like, never and always. I'm working on it.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Stupid cunt indeed. That's why they were considered second class citizens in the old days.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I take satisfaction in that for you

[–][deleted] 27 points28 points  (2 children) | Copy

"If you think she is a snowflake, it’s because that’s what she wants you to believe. It serves her purpose"

They all try so hard to put on the demure snowflake act in the beginning. It is really laughable.

[–]1aguy0111 points12 points  (1 child) | Copy

She lies about being worthy of commitment, so the guy has to lie about considering her for commitment. The game of plate spinning.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If only I'd known of TRP way back when...

[–]kempff26 points27 points  (4 children) | Copy

Beautifully written:

  • Paragraphs delineate the logical units of the story.
  • A minimum of rhetorical fluff, in particular no teenager/college-boy argot.
  • Sparing use of textual formatting.

Now that your kids are reaching puberty you may find /u/IanIronwood's work useful, The Red Pill Primer for Boys.

[–]real-boethius5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Agree. It was long but well written and didn't seem long.

[–]TSM_Bjergson0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Kind of off-topic but you seem like you know what you're talking about when it comes to writing. Sort of a weak point of mine even though I do a ton of reading. Think you'd be able to share some tips/resources for someone willing to improve?

[–]kempff1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I do. I teach writing among other things. Imitate good writing and you will become a good writer. Read more; be clear and logical.

[–]2All_fixed_again[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Had a look at the links. Pure gold, bookmarked for future use

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (0 children) | Copy

[deleted]

What is this?

[–]Endorsed ContributorUrsusG11 points12 points  (9 children) | Copy

How could you agree to have kids after so many red flags?

More importantly, why on Earth did you agree to have kids after 2 years of dead bedroom?

Two kids, for that matter? Just... how?

[–][deleted] 26 points27 points  (7 children) | Copy

One thing I always told my last LTR was that I wouldn't have kids. She'd always go "whyyyyyyyy? They're so cute" or whatever.

I'd always respond with "you do know that you have to have sex to have kids, right?" Turns out there was plenty of sex happening, just not with me.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (6 children) | Copy

Twice a year: once on your birthday and once on your anniversary...isn't that how it always works for married people?

[–]reddishman5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Why would anyone get married then !

Reason#223563 to not get married.

[–]Fergatron1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I got told I was an asshole for expecting it on my birthday.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You should tell her that same thing for expecting Valentine's Day.

[–]1cover200 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

No, you can seduce her a lot more than that! She is lying in bed next to you, so be assertive and score.

[–]antariusz0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's ok... He "knows" the kids are his, they look JUST LIKE HIM...

[–]redzorp26 points27 points  (1 child) | Copy

Damn. What a story! Thank you for sharing this.

Too bad you had to go through all that but better late than never for TRP. Hopefully many of the younger guys on here will learn through your experience and never fall into the delusion.

Most Important Advice:

"Some people on this forum say "dont get married", I would take it a step further and say don't ever get yourself into LTR situation with a woman where you cant walk away at the drop of a hat. Maintain independence, have no dependents."

[–]zulficar31311 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

This one dug deep as I was reading it. I hope you use the pain constructively now. I can't imagine having to unplug after a 15 year relationship. Good on you. On to bigger and better.

[–]1PrinceofSpades23 points24 points  (1 child) | Copy

Ahhh, every time I find my way stumbling back here and find myself in one of these threads, it makes me truly greatful that I unplugged at such an early age long before letting myself get married.

While I deeply feel for your struggle and losses OP, I want you to know your contribution to men everywhere will not go unnoticed. Evidence leads to change. The more of it we have access to, the more of it we can use to strengthen ourselves. It is surprisingly easy to catch oneself falling back towards old habits and allowing new female 'friends' to be perceived as "this time she's gotta be different."

Then one goes and refreshes their redpill mentality, applies it during the next hangout/date with said new girl, and it results it some of the best sex one's had in months, all because you couldn't give a single fuck about her suddenly, and you are (for the time being) forever unobtainable to her (you know, despite the fact you just had sex, not that that is hard to do with just about anyone in this day and age).

Seriously, thank you for posting this. I know writing about what was probably the worst thing in your entire life (it was 15 years of it, after all) isn't easy, but without contributions like this, less people would ever wake up to the truth of today's world (thanks technology!).

Spot on lessons learned. Maintain independence, have no dependents is a golden mantra. If you go down the LTR route, make her work Every. Single. Day. to keep YOU around. Enough said. Women, in my experience, are much hornier then men are. If one isn't willing, I'll bet you tens of thousands of others in some # of miles radius around you definitely are.

Edit: oh yeah, since you have children, do your best to instill how to act like an alpha into your son(s) from an early age, and basically how not to end up like mommy to any daughter(s) you may have. Damn, having kids is a drag. Can't believe I used to want some so badly.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

Holy mother of god! I can't believe what i have just read. I think this is finally the tipping point of me actually understanding the redpill.. I can't believe how quality she would switch to Dave... makes me wanna never have a LTR ever again and i feel quite sick now

[–]overlyconfusedunsure12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

My heart broke reading this.

[–]cocaineandcoffee19 points20 points  (2 children) | Copy

I recommend bookmarking this just in case you start to think your girl is special.

[–]BetterRedThanRed2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I recommend bookmarking this just in case you start to think red flags do not matter.

[–]Bartand0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

In firefox you can save the page in your computer. Right click then "save page as"

[–]gzmaster11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

Women cannot be trusted.

The most sickening part for me is that when you call them out on their shit (like when you called her at the hotel), it's mostly useless and you don't even get the 1UP because the hamster will soon absolve them of all guilt.

Honestly, it's just not worth the risk for this kind of shit, is it D:

[–]cariboo_j11 points12 points  (1 child) | Copy

Paradoxically, the more you help a woman in life the less she respects you.

It's fucked up man.

Truly, no good deed goes unpunished.

Only help someone if it costs you little to nothing. Women and society at large will laugh at your self-sacrifice, then demand more. The Bible says "the meek shall inherit the earth" but I say that's bullshit. The meek will be taken advantage of at every possible step. This is especially true in relationships. Female entitlement is infinite: it knows no bounds whatsoever.

It's hard when society actively encourages and congratulates men on being suckers.

I think this is why TRP is such a hard pill to swallow for most men - it's a complete inversion of the world wide, deeper-than-cultural, biological programming they have received since birth. As a man, your instincts WILL betray you.

[–]1cover201 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Indeed, don't help girls. A tough exterior is what turns them on.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock32 points33 points  (9 children) | Copy

Lessons Learned

Never ever elevate the socio economic status of your woman. Let her do it on her own. This does not mean sabotage her or keep her in a dungeon. It is because women can't handle that shit. She has to believe you are above her at all times. In this case she went for more schooling. In her mind she is a more indypyndent womenz despite the fact everything was financed by hubby. In her mind she is now equal or better than hubby which is a big no no. Her hypergamous nature makes her seriously consider someone else. (Read: Hypergamy 102)

What's funny is that they don't know they'll have such a huge change in mindset after undergoing an increase of education or bank account. Women don't understand that men don't care about a woman's education at all, not even a phd or MD. She is only aware of her feelz in the moment, no other feelz will exist in the future. Feelz now is reality.

2)

She wanted me to move out…

The nerve, the balls it takes to make a statement like that after contributing almost nothing to the home, living off hubbies dime who did nothing but support her, not putting out, and attempting to branch swing. This is Briffault's Law in action. The second she has found someone better, or believes you are no longer necessary, you are dead to her.

3) As a man, the game is never over. Hypergamy is perpetual, there is no summit, there is no end. Always be on you A-game, you can never 'relax' because you're married. You can't contract a woman's instincts. The game never ends.

OP, good job sticking up for yourself.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (6 children) | Copy

Thats interesting to note, if you bring them up it is not YOU bringing them to your level, it is her having always BEEN at that level.

I got a promotion while I was in the military and my ex literally said "I would have made TSgt before you." Bitch youre not even IN the military!

[–]ColonelMitchell6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy

Did you drop her on that statement or did you have to have a few more red flags?

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy

HA! I wish... nope waited for a nice guy to come along and fuck her brains out for me while I sat around oblivious to everything. Being plugged in sucks.

[–]1KyfhoMyoba0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Say 'Hi' to Jody for me, ok?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

funny thing is that Jody is actually the guy in uniform who somehow doesnt deploy.

[–]1PantsonFire12340 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Their level of arrogance amplifies with their level of stupidity.

My ex was doing a lower level education when we met but failed her last year. I was doing a higher level education after I completed the lower level. So I was in my first year.

Everything was fine and dandy until she got to intern. Suddenly 'she worked' and I 'just went to school'. No soon after we broke up. One of her claims was 'I am going to earn more than you'. She won't hold a bachelor title, nothing. Working a caretaker job.

[–]destraht2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Don't let her walk into the golden star sticker store because she will walk out believing that she is better than you.

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (11 children) | Copy

CORRECTION: "She dropped her current boyfriend almost immediately to be with me."

Mistake #1. Should have plated her instead. That's it.

Seriously men stop spending money on women. Just stop already. If you need to get laid buy an escort or get ripped. End of story. I hope never to have to read another beta bux story like that. My current plate tried hard to get promoted to GF only to go back to plate. Now she tells me she has other dinner dates lined up (beta bucks) but she still wants my cock. This bitch comes from a traditional Venezuelan married family unit, she's 30 and she still needs her fill of the cock carousel.

[–]Endorsed Contributorzyk0s12 points13 points  (8 children) | Copy

Absolutely. It's such an ego boost to think "I'm so good, she left that other guy to be with me!". It's an illusion.

If you thought the guy was great, and you're just better, she demonstrated that she can decide to leave a great guy at the drop of a hat, and unless you are objectively the Best Man On Earth, it can just as easily happen to you.

If you thought the guy wasn't so great, then she demonstrated she'd rather stay with someone she's not happy with than be alone, i.e. she uses men she doesn't like for their provision.

In either case, it's a terrible idea to commit to such a girl. If a girl says she's leaving her guy to be with you, do not give her anything more than plate status in your life.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's like a thief who wants to live in your house. She already showed her hand, game over. She's a cheap escort now forever in my eyes. Her shit test was trying to break me down emotionally and become beta bucks. She once told me how I was the only guy who dumped her.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

it's a terrible idea to commit to such a girl.

It's a terrible idea to commit at all.

Why give away your power when you don't even have to ?

[–]BetterRedThanRed-1 points0 points  (5 children) | Copy

Because high quality women have their price.

I am rather in a LTR with a sane 8/10 than fucking 5/10 sluts who think they have a high SMV just because it is easy for them to get laid every night.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Better to plate the 8s. They will stick around longer and show more loyalty than if you LTR them. And there is far less risks.

[–]BetterRedThanRed1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Better to plate the 8s.

Better 10s

They will stick around longer and show more loyalty than if you LTR them.

I have yet to see one sane women who accepts fuck buddy status and is at least a 8. Women want commitment. And if they can get this, they will take it.

And there is far less risks.

I think both ways are not risky.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

I have yet to see one sane women who accepts fuck buddy status and is at least a 8. Women want commitment. And if they can get this, they will take it.

It's just a game of letting them hope you will give them your commitment. You plate them and reward good behavior with little things that make her think she will get you to commit (you buy her dinner, etc.).

I think both ways are not risky.

LTRs not risky? Well, depends. Girls will try to make a big shit in your head (see the we are at war with women beige philipp principle), to beta-ized and castrate you (RP principle...to prevent you from leaving she will make sure you become unattractvie to other women...shocker : you will become unattractive to her too) so if one is immune to this, yeah why not.

[–]BetterRedThanRed0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You plate them and reward good behavior with little things that make her think she will get you to commit (you buy her dinner, etc.).

Or you commit and reward good behavior by not breaking up with her.

Honestly, what you said looks like more work.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yes. It is easier to surrender. But it is less rewarding and more risky.

But anyway, to each his own way. Yours are not mine and mine are not yours, it's perfectly fine.

See you bro

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I am really confused about why men should spend money on women.

I mean, they got their little revolution, "earned" their right to work so that they too make money, right? So let those bitches buy their own shit

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

1000% agree. FR stories should be about how girls are buying their men shit not the other way around.

[–]1CowardlyPetrov10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

I feel with you as a spiritual brother, but I have a particular part I want to comment on.

For the sake of the kids at home, we were cordial with each other, parental duties continued as they were. We tried to keep life for the kids normal.

Is it really better for children to have a delusion about their mothers? Mothers abuse their children all the time.

Do we lie to children about abusive fathers? NO, BECAUSE IT IS THE CHILDREN THAT MATTER WHEN IT IS CHILDREN AND MEN.

Do we lie to children about abusive mothers? YES, BECAUSE APPARENTLY WOMEN'S FEELINGS MATTER MORE THAN CHILDREN'S WELFARE.

Even after all this time, there are holdouts of bluepill faggotry in our minds. Destroy that shit with fire. You need to protect your children from HER. You think that she would betray a man who was loyal and loving for 20 years but not her children?

[–] points points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–]Smooovies15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'll say this: I knew AWALT was a reality, but I'm starting to see just how far the rabbit hole goes with women and their insanity. I've never realized how diametrically dissimilar men and women are psychologically. I'm actually starting to understand the civility of the male mind, and appreciating it much more.

[–]roteroktober8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy

never pay for someone elses education, bills, rent. if you are going to be in an LTR or marriage, at least demand them to pull their own weight.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

lacking common sense they are.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Its honestly the opposite of common sense. The common ideals OUTSIDE of red pill say you should PROVIDE for your woman. Starts with first dates goes on to tuition and bills.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Since when are boyfriends expected to pay her tuition and bills? Isn't that the responsibility of her fucking shit parents? That's what I didn't get before TRP. Now I realize most parents are looking for any chump to take over payments for princess.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

What boggles my mind is: 1) she still expected him to take care of her while she was planning her midnight baloney pony ride; and 2) she actually thought he would take her back.

My guess is that Dave pounded his wife hard for one night and then told her that he was not going to deal with the hassle of her husband. She thought she was starting a new and exiting life; in reality she was just another lay. Her hamster exploded and she went running back to the only place she could.

[–]TRP VanguardJP_Whoregan13 points14 points  (2 children) | Copy

She came back from London, as expected...there were tears, begged me to take her back. She tried to come onto me, get touching and affection. I pushed her back. I sat there coldly while she bawled, told me she loved me, for the sake of the kids, the house, our family, all the history we had together…she was distraught and so desperately wanted me back, my emotions felt tickled…only slightly. I sat back in my chair, looked at her coldly and then said “So Daves cock did not taste that good then did it”?...got up…and walked off.

She got her little sexcapade out of the way with Dave, probably got fucked silly 8 ways from Sunday over the course of the time she was there, then realized that guys like Dave don't give long term commitment to women like your ex-wife. Now here she is, filled to the brim with fresh cum, and alone in London with no beta provider.

Enter your ex stage right.

"Camera crew, open the valves, cue the water works."

It's amazing how so many men don't dump their wives after an episode like this. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. A sane man would not repeatedly put his hand on a hot stove. A sane man would not repeatedly stick a fork in a power socket.

But for some reason, otherwise sane men will repeatedly, over and over again, take their cheating whore wives back, multiple times. And when the divorce finally comes, he will marry another woman and go through it all over again. How many men out there are 2, 3, 5 times married? It's mind boggling.

Anyhow, I will give you another lesson from this: WOMEN FROM BROKEN, FATHERLESS HOMES ARE DAMAGED GOODS AND HAVE SHITTY OPINIONS OF MEN. (not shouting, just emphasis). A girl who grows up without a father grows up viewing men as nothing more than a utility to serve her ever fleeting needs. While Briffault's Law is valid, girls from single mothers have Briffault on steroids.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's amazing how so many men don't dump their wives after an episode like this.

But for some reason, otherwise sane men will repeatedly, over and over again, take their cheating whore wives back, multiple times.

All of this stems from pity. Men pity women and their poor emotional brains that hamper them... which is just what women want them to do. It's easy to forgive when you have in your mind that they lack agency and rational thought, and pity their situation. We forgive the starving man for stealing bread, and we forgive the truly retarded kids for just about everything... they don't know any better. And so it is with women... somehow they've convinced us they don't know any better. And since this continually benefits them, as it excuses just about anything, women keep doing it, and men just keep falling for it, generation after generation after generation.

Women aren't mysterious. Women aren't illogical. Women aren't stupid. They just want you to think they are, so you'll either pity them, or just throw your hands up and give up trying to explain them. And once you've thrown your hands up, you've given up frame and control: she gets to define what "makes sense" to her, and becomes the author of her own solipsistic world.

[–]Limekill0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

WOMEN FROM BROKEN, FATHERLESS HOMES ARE DAMAGED

+1.

[–]zillaaa377 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

You're a fucking badass motherfucker.

[–]Edizok6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think this is the most RP post I've read. She fucked you up and you reacted like a real alpha. Makes me more resolute to never pedestalize a bitch and treat all of them like the whores they are.

[–]Cant_Tell_Me_Nothin13 points14 points  (1 child) | Copy

Man, I don't know what kept you from laughing diabolically at the sight of her crying when she came back from her trip.

[–]redhurtsdonut-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

I said "you fucking bitch" out loud.

[–]Atheisticles12 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy

I cried in my heart reading op's story.

[–] points points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–] points points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–]carnage_panda-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy

Religious people have higher divorce rates. Most people are in their religion for comfort from fear of dying and don't really give a shit about the rest of it.

Conservatism is also a good indicator of % chance to get divorced.

You put two unstable children together at 18 years of age and of course they're going to have more issues.

[–] points points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–]RatherDieStanding3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

You're the male presence for them; they're going to be using you as a template for the type of man they look for in the future.

My sister does the same thing, and has explicitly said as much. (Her current boyfriend reflects it as well.)

As long as you've been a strong male lead, and rein/discipline them in if they try to do something immoral, they'll grow up right.

[–]1cover200 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That's when you're supposed to have kids. At least when the woman is young.

Of course that's why our society is as it is, to prevent you from doing that.

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

Every single damn time I hear someone spout NAWALT, I'm reminded of stories like yours. That's some serious shit you've had to put up with, sorry to hear about it man.

Stay strong.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy

• You think you know your little snowflake? You don’t know her at all.

Somewhere along the line a chad or dave in this instance has busted a nutt in her butthole on spring break, and he didn't stick around for a cuddle.

This frames my reality with women now. They are not special snowflakes. Say that shit when you go out during the day and watch how you all of a sudden DGAF.

80% of guys are not getting vag shots and texts from girls saying they want you to pee in their butt. If they did they would realize those snowflakes running around are not to be trusted or put on a pedestal

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

To me it sorta makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint. Maybe the best providers don't always have the best genetics. So women run out, get plowed by whoever is making them tingle, then run home and have the provider care for the little shit.

[–]Limekill2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

That is exactly what hypergamy is (read sidebar).

[–]RPMan13 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Great post, good refresher for keeping the right views in mind. Thanks for sharing your experience man. Looking forward to your follow-ups.

[–]TeasingPenguin4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's almost not believable if you were to read that coming from a BP mindset, so many details in you story happened to me and it's very similar down to the kind of girl I thought she was, only difference is that it wasn't 15 years thank god. Time heals and you'll get better like I did, learn from it and just be grateful that you know better.

[–]DeezAlmonds4 points5 points  (6 children) | Copy

Im 19. Its always been a sort of life goal to marry and raise a happy family. Are you insisting that this isnt possible? I know plenty of happily (well, I guess "stable" is a better word) married couples. Are you saying that the trade-off between happiness and companionship isnt wort it? (Ive only swallowed the pill within the last year, any TRP knowledge would be appreciated.)

[–]henry-jest4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Are you insisting that this isnt possible?

It's possible but not easy. You need to understand women. Someone here said "The best way to get a girl is to not need one. " Same is with happy family. If you're needy, then you will turn beta. Read book "How to Be a 3% Man, Winning the Heart of the Woman of Your Dreams " by Corey Wayne. It's very good.

[–]1cover200 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's hard not to "need" a happy family. Unless there's polygamy, it's hard to have many of them. But you do have to game your wife when it feels to you that this should no longer be necessary. It's the solution to pretty much every marital problem I can think of, including teenage boys trying to compete with you for your wife's attention and affection.

You don't have to game her every day. In fact you should think of it as a tool and retain a certain scientific detachment about how things are going. Use the tool as needed. This is acting like a boss.

[–]madnessinspades1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Im 19. Its always been a sort of life goal to marry and raise a happy family. Are you insisting that this isnt possible?

Anything is possible, what's important is that you don't let anyone but you define your happiness. Whether you're single, ltr, or married, it's your responsibility to make you happy. Never rely on someone else for that.

I know plenty of happily (well, I guess "stable" is a better word) married couples.

Unless you're a really close friend, why would they ever say they're unhappy? They've sunken their entire life into their wife(/kids), they want to believe they're happy just as much as you want to believe your special snowflake would never do to you what OP's wife did to him.

Are you saying that the trade-off between happiness and companionship isnt wort it?

Who says you have to be married to be happy? Why can't you be equally happy single? It's not a trade off when you determine how fulfilling your life is, said happiness comes from within, not external forces (in the long term). Companionship comes in many forms, your mates, your family or even your fucking dog. If you think that woman are the only ones who provide the only means of companionship, you're going to be disappointed.

You don't need woman, they need you. Believe that, and act accordingly. It's a bitter pill my friend, but that's the point.

[–]BetterRedThanRed0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You can never know 100% if a woman is good. But you can know if she is bad.


This woman left her ex right after she met OP without even knowing if OP is really a good option.

This woman expected OP to pay for her life before they were married.

This woman thought her wage is only for her while her husband's wage has to be split.

This woman did not want to have sex anymore with OP.

They still got children despite she is not attracted to him anymore.


These are at least 6 GIANT mistakes.

If you know a girl for a long time (a few years) before you marry her and if there are no red flags, you have good chances.

If you ignore one red flag, you live dangerously.

If you ignore two red flags, you are an idiot. OP ignored at least 6 red flags.

[–]DeezAlmonds0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Wow, so much wonderfully painful truth. Very glad I found this community

[–]1cover200 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I got married, the kids followed soon after (born in years 2 and 5), and by year 7 she was turning into a bitch to me. Now I understand that's normal The "7 year itch" is a real thing.

At that point understand that you cannot reason with her, do not give in to her, and things will never be the same. Game the shit out of her. You have to assume your seat as boss, patriarch of the family.

Still married at about year 20, kids still here. It's a long term project but turning out successful. It's harder than just gaming new pussy.

Oh, and don't rely on the MMSL site. The source of a woman's bonding to you is oxytocin, not dopamine. It is cemented by regular vaginal sex -- good or bad doesn't matter. It has nothing to do with excitement or good times.

[–]1cover204 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

The main thing going on here is that after the kids came and were a few years old, the woman normally pulls away from the man. Serious game is needed at this point to overcome the fact that by our instincts, that's the end of that family unit and the guy leaves and the woman raises the children.

On the other hand you have the advantage that you start every night in bed. The game is set up for you to win, but you gotta use some tricks. What tricks? Whatever worked with your girl in the first place probably, but moreso because now there's a hostility to overcome.

it's not your fault. It's a problem that comes after achieving a lot of success. Genetically you've won already and are supposed to go find new pussy; this married man game is not a game that nature designed for you to win, but you can win it too.

How do I know this? Married 20 years and still married, 2 teenage boys, gone thru this phase. (Now there are new issues involving psychological stages of the kids ...) And by the way I am not ripped and never was. I read so many stories of guys who stayed in shape and this happened to -- I don't think that's the protection in this case.

[–]piccolo3nj4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

You're my hero. You ever need anything - just ask.

[–]Rougepellet3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

"She can't help it" and there's the truth. Women are slaves to their tingles. Learn to incite tingles and you will play them like a fiddle. They would willingly destroy a marriage with a guy who would sacrifice everything, even his life, for her and the kids just for a fling with Chad.

"The next day, she sends Dave an email saying that she has to choose between her husband or him…and she chooses him." They would choose Chad over their husband. Chad will either plate or pump and dump, then what is she left with? Neither Chad not the husband. It's utterly illogical, extremely irrational but that's the way it is.

[–]1KyfhoMyoba1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

"The next day, she sends Dave an email saying that she has to choose between her husband or him…and she chooses him." They would choose Chad over their husband.

How does this work for her, logistically speaking? Dave lives in fucking London! So this means that she abandons her kids as well. OP needs to show this to his kids in a couple of years so that they know how much mummy wuvs them.

[–] points points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

4) Snort blow (but only if you're drunk, you don't wanna develop a pattern)

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

to butcher the immortal words of the Japanese: "Family and commitment are light as a feather, tingles as heavy as a mountain."

Normally, I'd say that calling the other man would be a beta move, but you earned a little emotional revenge.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

If he recorded the call, it was another proof that she was cheating (they were still married I believe)

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

She definitely wanted her beta bucks provider while she got the alpha fucks on the side.

Fortunately you were a step ahead of her once you caught onto her.

[–]Lt_Muffintoes5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

You mislabelled. Mistake 1 was that she dumped a boyfriend for you. The best predictor of future behaviour is relevant past behaviour.

Anyway, that's some brutal stuff, I'm sorry it happened. I hope you and you kids are doing well.

[–]ECoast_Man3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for the courage of posting this. I view this as damn near side bar material.

Good luck man, fuck that bitch and go live your life. Thanks for this story, you've helped maybe thousands of dudes by being courageous enough to post this.

[–]melomaverick4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you for posting your story. It really cements redpill into my head.

[–]iyaayashua4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

Man you literally described my current situation exactly...except I'm stuck in a beta role and and can't alpha up

[–]Fergatron1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Me too dude. But working on it.

I was about 5" 5' and 120kg. Did a lot of cardio and changed my diet. Down to 90kg now and just starting to lift.

I started to set boundaries. Shit started to hit the fan when I started to say "no" to her never ending demands. Throwing temper tantrums like a motherfucker.

So no we're separated and I've just read her the riot act of splitting all costs (mortgage, utilities, groceries) and responsibilities with the kids/house.

She is threatening legal action as I earn 80k pa and she only works part time and earns 10-20k pa (not that I see a dime of her money).

So I'm looking at quitting and getting some part time contact work so I can spend more time with the kids, have more time for self improvement, and lower my income to force her to either contribute or fuck off.

[–]1cover201 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

That sounds like an excellent idea, but check first with a lawyer to see what time period the court would look at your income to determine you obligations in divorce. Can you go 3 years or whatever?

Anyway no risk, no reward, but get legal advice from the toughest most expensive divorce attorney in town, first.

[–]2All_fixed_again[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You can...you just have not felt enough pain to push you over the threshold

[–]chadchadington3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm glad you've unplugged. Welcome my brotha.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Phenomenal post.

"I had given her so much in the past and it would be a cold day in hell before she squeezed anything else from me."

This would make a great opener for a book. If you don't use this any further I'm going to plagiarize this if you don't mind. Looking forward to your next post! - Tschüss

[–]B_Campbell2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

I feel for the OP and I understand why he did the account did what he did but he definitely should not have clued her in to having access to her accounts. Best case a source of info is gone. Worst case is some wiretap charge.

[–]JanLul1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Not the USA. Criminal charges won't be likely.

[–]B_Campbell2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I bet it depends on the state and I wouldn't want to give her any ammo to use in the divorce.

[–]JanLul1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

That is very true. Best to keep your powers hidden.

[–]2All_fixed_again[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

She never knew how I found out so much, the hotel, the time, etc. She tried to ask, I ignored. She could not understand why I was walking away so easily...she did not know that over a period of 6 to 8 weeks, each nerve ending that had feelings for her...was cauterised by reading the emails and messages.

[–]HardShadow2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy

Here are some of the major red flags.

OP, I am not giving you shit. Rather I am pointing them out because women repeatedly make these very claims, assertions, and take similar actions to these. The minute anyone sees these, it's time to bail:

She dropped her current boyfriend almost immediately to be with me.

...

she had taken a 1 year break after high school to figure out what she wanted to do with her life.

...

She said she was going to surprise me and spice up our sex.

...

We had always had a joint bank account, the account where my salary had been going to, she had her own card for this account and I was finally happy that I was not going to be the only financial contributor to that account.

...

2 years later, our bedroom still dead…we agree to have kids, our first son arrived in 2006.

...

“Perhaps if you weren’t so fat I would fuck you”.

...

That weekend, while on our Tablet at home, she had left her email account open. I noticed 20 emails between her and “Dave”. I click on the first one, the email history attached below…they are flirting. I confront her, she says they are just friends and he is in the UK...no danger. I tell her its not OK to be married and flirting with other guys…think of everything we have built up, the kids, the house…me. She cries and says it will stop.

...

She cries, she knows it was wrong…we agree to try again. Its only online right...think of the family, think of the house, the kids…our life together, our history. I mean… I was there to help her bury her mom when she passed,her pillar of support…didn’t that mean anything to her? She sends him an email saying they have to stop…he agrees.

...

Turns out my little princess is a raging whore that wants all her holes filled.

...

I immediately removed her from my bank account, contacted a lawyer and minimised all communication with her.

This is arguably the best action to take. You should've done this the moment that you discovered she was flirting with someone, regardless of how harmless it was. Gentlemen, take heed.

[–]redpillfil1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

How is a girl taking a year off to figure out what she wants to do a red flag?

[–]HardShadow3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Opportunity to fuck around (literally) and not have the responsibilities of school. Also denotes a serious lack of direction that she never spent time to develop before graduating from high school. This is evidenced later by the fact she kept changing education paths, careers, and eventually just emulated OP's career choice because she most likely believed she would excel at it more than him.

Women make terrible SE's, so I can understand why she became some bored housewife.

[–]BrunoOh1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

"Figuring out what she wants to do"= CC riding.

[–]1cover200 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Who ever takes a year off, unless they're retired? You should have a job (that could be raising young kids) and meanwhile scout other oppoprtunities.

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–]HardShadow0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's more about context, given how she had been treating him and how she suddenly wanted to have this surprise sex.

If a woman is perennially treating you like shit, and all of a sudden she just wants to spice up the sex life without any indication prior to this that she wanted to, it's because she's realized that she might've pushed you to the breaking point, and she needs to have a couple crazy nights in bed with you to invigorate your passion for her. From that point on, she'll just fall back into the same routines and continue to treat you like shit. Except, at that point, she's aware of what can be used to control and assuage your feelings of animosity towards her.

The moment she treats you like shit, kick her to the curb.

[–]IsobellaVaude422 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you for posting. I didn't see this mentioned in the story, but I was curious if after her rendezvous with "Dave" did he reject her? Is that why she came running back to you once it was over?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Damn that hurt to read but glad things worked out for the better.

[–]iJJD2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I know this experience opened your eyes and changed you for the better. But, read the beginning over and tell me if you would want this to happen to you, this is exactly why I don't believe in cheating, as a man.

[–]redmeatball2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

…I have got to the point where I realise that I do not know this woman at all.

Shit I think this statement hits me the most.

[–]AurelianWay2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I got that deep pit in my stomach after reading your story man. Incredibly poignant example of the typical M.O. of most western woman. (Notice her behaviour changed after they moved to western Europe). I understand that hypergamy as been around since humans first started walking upright. However the level of "Open Hypergamy" that exists today is deplorable. Generally speaking, in the past thanks to religion & other societal boundaries, a woman was at least kept in check from acting on that hypergamy or else she was shamed / ostracized & meant to feel the brunt of her actions.

The modern woman now is so entitled & so indoctrinated by hardcore feminism that a dual sexual strategy (aka AF BB) is now encouraged & / or expected. All is fair in love & war & sometimes a happy marriage will decline into misery, but if it gets to that point LADIES, don't keep milking your BB & fuck Chad on the side. Get a divorce first then fuck whoever you want to your hearts desire! Congrats OP on getting back on your feet & making the best of a bad job.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm glad I read this. I've been off work for a couple extra days this week and been lazy as fuck.

This thread has reminding me I should be pumping iron and running laps.

Great post and I'm glad you found your way to TRP.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

God this is awful man, thank you though for providing this experience and information, to save some of us from falling into this terrible trap thank you

[–]FoolishWiseGuy2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

London is a hypergamous hell zone. Most girls are obsessed with living a 'sex and the city' lifestyle so it doesn't come as a surprise tbh.

[–]YourShowerBuddy2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

OP, this brought a fucking smile to my face. Good on you, i wish you well in your future adventures.

[–]damn_mothernature 2 points2 points [recovered] | Copy

OP, a few things stood out from your post.

  1. She left her bf almost immediately for you. From the information given in your post, she seems quite smart. Or smarter than the average CC rider.

I've met these types of women before. Our friends know these types of women as being very grimy. You don't see them often in 1st world country because they're well off and most guys are not rich enough for them to bother pulling these moves.

I've known this girl who rejected me when I was 16. Years later when we met again, she was eager to meet up with me. The redflag is I'm now much better off financially and physically and I have the US citizenship. These women are succubus.

  1. You hacked into her account. Awesome move right there. You can learn a lot about a woman by reading her old facebook messages to various guys and statuses. Sometimes it's the only way to know if they're a former CC rider. There's no point in speculating if AWALT when you can find out directly. If you had not done what you did, you might probably still be that marriage.

[–]2All_fixed_again[S] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

Some on this forum will say that checking their phone, the email accounts, their history is Blue Pill. The one lesson I have learned is that they will never tell you the whole truth, you never get the complete picture of who they really are until you look under the cover.

[–]1KyfhoMyoba0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Some on this forum will say that checking their phone, the email accounts, their history is Blue Pill.

It depends on your motivation. If yours is to know the TRUTH and to ACT appropriately on it, then go ahead and snoop. I guarantee that there are damn few women out there that wouldn't snoop for any damn reason.

[–]Bung_Eye2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Things like this are the exact reminders why I need to be here. Man, I love you for this!

[–]zockerspast2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Man this read was absolutely breathtaking. I got cold hands and was really touched by your situation. Man you managed this whole shit just godlike. Though I think everyone has to learn this the hard way. My parents finished their divorcing yesterday...

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I had to hold back tears reading this.

[–]uns7able5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Holy. I actually could not handle this.

[–]redhurtsdonut3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Fuck brother. That was heavy duty.

I almost can't believe it. Fifteen years flushed down the drain just to suck stranger Dave's cock in a hotel room for one night. Fuck that.

I had a similar thing happen where I had access to my long time GF's email and I read how she fell in love with her old disgusting boss at work while she was traveling for school. I endured it for three months after being in a relationship for two years. I thought I had it bad. I can't imagine how reading that shit after fifteen years must have cut. Damn brother. You live through that, you can live through anything.

For this GF, I gave her two years of my life, one job change and one relocation. She was sweet as pie and I was a pretty alpha guy actually. Seemed like a good situation but Chads were out there and I didn't keep my game up.

I'm 31. Deep inside, I have always been Redpill. I was surrounded by true betas throughout my life. I am glad I found Redpill one year ago. Wish it was ten years ago, but better now than never.

I just read your post again. Fuck my stomach hurts and I'm grinding my teeth.

Live on my friend. Better days are ahead. May the best of your today be the worst of your tomorrow.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

great post , good luck on your future adventures.

[–]DalekJay1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Op, it's hard to see the redflags at the moment I know it, it's a shame we suffer too much before we realize, I had a similar experience but not that destructive, I wasn't married and I don't have kids, for me was easier (was hell, but putting in perspective with you story....well...), if you may tell the aftermath of your story would be cool.

Congrats and thrive brother

[–]LionLaw1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I realised that woman aren’t these fragile little creatures that need to be looked after, it is in their best interests for you to believe that…but they are experts at deception.

And

You think you know your little snowflake? You don’t know her at all. If you think she is a snowflake, it’s because that’s what she wants you to believe. It serves her purpose.

Women get validation every fucking day if they are even remotely attractive, make them earn your respect and your commitment and don't put the pussy on a pedestal

[–]holzy4441 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

That is a tragic story, but good on you for working hard and taking risks improve your situation even if you had a leech on your ass the whole time.

[–]Inforce1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

About fatherhood..Is it crazy, to think that we should use women as vessels for reproduction purposes, and after the conception we remain friends with obligations towards our children, but not ourselves as a couple? I believe this will be the most common type of family on the planet, if it isn't already

[–]MrRexels1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Mistake 1 wasn't paying for half of her college, mistake 1 was the fact she didn't hesitate in breaking up with her then boyfriend to be with you just because you met in a bar.

[–]thenarrrowpath1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Did you even know of RP when you started standing up for yourself? Or was it just a natural reaction?

[–]2All_fixed_again[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

No, I did not know of RP...but I definitely recognized the psychological changes I went through, I was not scared of anything, approached girls randomly with no fear of rejection, IDGAF, focused on myself, looking good and being fit. When I came across TRP, I recognized my transformation...it was text book unplugging, going Alpha.

I have seen men, friends, family who went through similar episodes crumble. I got to a point where this could either kill me or make me stronger...I chose the better option

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Incredible. Powerful story, well written, fantastic lessons, and key red pill tenets spelled out beautifully with supporting evidence.

My friends have told me she downgraded…as long as she is happy I don't care. He is BB through and through and a “nice guy”, he is good to my kids and teaches them right from wrong, he is not a negative influence on them.

Just be careful with this. A man like that can't teach your kids right from wrong. He thinks he just won in life for his beta providing. Don't let him send them down that path. It's up to you to make sure your kids have that strong male to look up to and a real understanding of the world. You can give them that; he can't.

[–]2All_fixed_again[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Was not aware of RP at that point, it was a natural reaction to my circumstances. When I finally did find RP, I suddenly had tools to work with, things clicked. I immediately understood why she did that and also helped me identify the shit tests and red flags going off all around me in my current LTR

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Just be glad you are a computer ace who was able to have all her shenanigans chronicled.

The average guy would be working on instinct and hamstring himself into a cuckold situation.

I guess the way you have to look at it is you got two sons out of the deal. Would you trade them for anything in the world?

[–]mismm1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Fuck, that was hard to read. But to be honest, she showed you her true colors way at the beginning, when she ''immediately'' dropped her boyfriend for you. Did she cheat on him with you?

[–]Limekill0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is an interesting question. Could op answer it?

[–]workunit131 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

I want a family and intend to have one, the message I take away is not to get out of shape, dont be boring and be a beta provider to everything.

[–]1cover200 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This guy was probably in better shape than you'll be at his age. Impressive for being married with a job and kids, actually.

I don't see this guy did anything unusual, and it was hard to say no at any stage. Women are good at setting up these decisions.

What you don't understand is that after the kids come, the woman normally develops a revulsion toward the father. Dad is supposed to go kill mammoths and father children with a new woman rather than hanging around with the kids after they are 2 or 3 years old -- that's what mom's genetic programming is telling her. If he's still there he is a loser, even if he's doing the modern equivalent of slaying dragons every day.

You gotta have a bit of game, even more than normal game for meeting new girls, in this situation. It's so much easier to dump that marriage and get a new girl at that point, you already know how to do that. (And once the guy's wife in the story started getting serious with Dave, there was no choice and I am glad he saw that.) But keeping the fam together for the kids, meaning that somehow you stop it from getting to that point, that's the next level of difficulty.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Protect your assets first. dont let ur wife be the emotional center of ur life

Then you cant be hurt

[–]beginner_1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Some people on this forum say "dont get married", I would take it a step further and say dont ever get yourself into LTR situation with a woman where you cant walk away at the drop of a hat. Maintain independence, have no dependents.

Yeah. Currently thinking about buying an apartment/house. Note that here where I live renting is more common and buying a house is very expensive BUT when you buy your running costs afterwards will be about half for the same standard due to ridiculously low mortgage rates.

Anyway I said to my LTR I will buy it alone with my money and it will obviously be in my name only. (Note: I'm not getting married but even according to marriage law here, it would still be mine alone).

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you for sharing with us man. I learned a lot from your story and am glad you're ok now. Must've been fucking hard for you. When you see them lying to your face with so much sincerity makes you wonder all things she said - fucking hard man. Even i know you have to judge the actions and not the words it's still hard and upsetting.

[–]nereprezentativ1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

How did you two manage to learn german so fast and get employed in DE?

[–]2All_fixed_again[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I didn't learn it so fast, was an international company. Office Language primarily English.

[–]unicornh_11 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

killer killer killer.. after reading this even Alice would have come off from wonderland..

[–]R3v4mp3d1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Damn! After all you did for her, if I were in her place I'd fucking lick your boot clean before you leave to work and buy you a gold crown.

I hate Brifaults law! I don't think I've experienced it first hand until now and I hope I never will!

Congrats OP for keeping your chill with all of this. If I were you I'd probably make her life a living hell: try and divorce-rape her; not let her see the kids; tell everyone (including her parents) what she did and also provide all the extensive evidence for it. I wouldn't care what the kids would think of their mom! That bitch took 15 years of my life, I'll take as much as I can from her!

[–]madrealworld1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

thanks for sharing your story bro.

[–]damstraight41 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for telling your story. I am younger and unmarried. This serves as another warning to never get married. Thank you.

[–]1NV0K3R1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I said it yesterday and I'll say it again, it only takes a man one time to be utterly destroyed before he never again makes himself vulnerable.

[–]1PantsonFire12341 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

What a damn fine story. The beginning is painful to read but damn man. You turned shit around. You're in inspiration to any man going through similar bullshit.

It never stops to amaze me. The women fucks up her marriage, the future of her kids and the mental welfare of her husband without a moments pause. Fucking mental.

[–]ChildOfTheLostTribes1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Damn brother. I cry red and blue tears for you. I ignorantly assumed the Motherland and the Caribbean were to us what Eastern Europe was for others. The Original Woman if still a woman. AWALT.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Bro... fucking bravo. This doesn't need to be said but you handled that the way I wish I handled my situation. I hope you're doing better these days, actually I know for a fact you are. I'm sorry you had to go through all that.

[–]Soriq1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

She said, “Perhaps if you weren’t so fat I would fuck you”.

Woooooo boy, I had to stop reading after that. Being a beta provider is truly like hell on earth

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

"I was 24 years old and she was 18" The first red flag lol

[–]starvinmarvin301 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Similar situation. Similar story. Similar outcome. The only difference is that I'm 30 years old and found TRP a year ago. Thank you for this post. I needed this more than ever.

[–]Doctorpepperpants2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Shit dude.... Great post. Thats all I have to say.

[–]laughkisskill3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you for sharing.

I wish you the best, though it's clear you need no wishes, you've got it within your grasp now.

A few of the other posters are saying this is enough, I disagree, this is the fuel that keeps me improving, the Daily dose of Reality that reminds me why you go to the God damned gym every day, why you diet, why you pull extra hours for a promotion.

I'm hungrier each time I read a post like yours, and I thank you for bearing yourself for our communities benefit.

I'll be looking for that follow up post. In the meantime, have a gold. No one else here was willing to, I think you should be rolling in it.

[–]axle7371 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I grew a beard just reading this!

[–]ShaneTino1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I've been studying Red Pill philosophy for about a month now. After reading this I'm pretty sure I'll be a misogynist for life.

[–]Jack_Sophmore1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is a great story but I have to question if it's only a story. How did you possibly get the room number beforehand? Hotel rooms are assigned when you check into your hotel not beforehand during the reservation process. I'm calling bullshit. Still very good entertaining BS.

[–]bakbakgoesherthroat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Do you resent dave for pushing the boundaries with a woman he knew was married? Or do you blame her for stepping out on her agreement to be exclusive with you?

[–]whatgold0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

So you're saying having kids is impossible?

[–]OrpheusV4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

With women nowadays, yes.

A lot just won't do a very good job, sorry to say.

Unfortunately for me I was married before I found this place. I'll make this shit work though.

[–]totorox0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

tl;dr

be happy, i hardly ever post and follow this reply.

[–]Radagascar10 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Crazy story man. I'm sorry you had to go through this. I'm encouraged to see you unplug and share some wisdom with the rest of us.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Interesting. Lots of your mistakes are ones that I have made too, although Chad isn't a feature of my story. Looks like you handled things well, good on you.

Your last bullet point is spot on. Bit of a problem for those of us who are there already but when you're in a hole, the only option is to climb out.

[–]TomHicks0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Any fallout from the divorce? Division of assets, child support, alimony?

[–]2All_fixed_again[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

50/50 down the middle unfortunately for the assets plus child support. When it was fresh and she was wracked with guilt , we had a notary agreement drawn up that she did not want alimony and would make no further claims to any of my future assets

[–]carnage_panda0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Can't ever trust a guy named Dave. It's a fact of life. You fucked up there.

[–]a10040 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Great history, thanks for sharing.

In all this divorces, she has a different history she tells to her family and friends, usually full of fantasy and lies. Do you have an idea of what is her version about the 'real' divorce reasons?

[–]2All_fixed_again[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Absolutely, we have common friends and the general line is we "grew apart". I laughed when I first heard this from friends. Yeah, about 4 inches of meat made us grow apart real fast is my usual reply ;-)

[–]1KyfhoMyoba0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I hope that you've saved copies of all her digital correspondence with Dave. I'm sure that your mutual friends would find it, well, ... just ... fascinating!

Never let the woman control the narrative. She gets her strength from her associates - she has no independence, no real will of her own. It's much harder to rationalize to another than to ones self. This is why the truth coming out is one of her biggest fears - why she works so hard to quickly control the narrative in her social circle.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Well written and I feel deep empathy for you. Honestly! Your post is a hard reality check. A bitter reminder we men need to read from time to time.

I'm now 28 and I've been in a LTR for more than 9 years. My ex is the type of girl that many people admire: attractive, responsible, sweet, hard working, respectful and religious. Even so, even the perfect women will fuck you up given the chance! 7 years into my LTR I noticed things changing, red flags start popping up everywhere. She start losing interest in sex, wanted spend more time with her friends, she didn't respect my opinions anymore, etc...

Sensing something wrong I managed to get into her facebook account, for months many guys tried to flirt with her but they didn't have any luck. Until one day, enter Dave a guy she knew from the gym. One day they start flirting, nothing sexual, but still it was serious. I remember becoming shocked, I couldn't believe it! Physical pain was nothing compared to the pain I felt when I saw those messages, I couldn't believe this was my girlfriend. I confronted her about it, she apologized and told me nothing happened between them. My inner beta rationalized and I forgave her in name of love. This was a massive blow in my self-confidence. The months passed I tried many BP tricks to regain the attraction: did more for her, bought flowers, etc...nothing worked! Until the day she dumped me. I cried like a baby in her front, she also cried. It was the end. I didn't pleaded her to stay, I knew it was hopeless, that was the moment when I realized that love doesn't trumps all, that my idea of love wasn't the same as she, her love for me wasn't unconditional. I didn't knew about red pill back then, but only a blind man couldn't see that a blue pill strategy is highly ineffective. She wanted friendship, I said no and went radio silent since then! That was 6 months ago.

Two months after the break up I found out my ex was seeing this guy, it wasn't Dave but it was another player. I felt disgusted and all the love I felt for her was vanished in the moment I found out. I don't know if they are still together, but it seems this guy is trying to spin her as a plate. My ex is the type of the girl that demands respect and full commitment from a man. I wonder how is that turning...

Three months ago I hooked up with a 22 years old girl in a night club. The following day I added her in facebook and found out she was in a 6 year relationship. The worst part was seeing her boyfriend posts saying he love her and the she is the best girlfriend ever. In the last months I have witness countless cases like this, unbelievable.

When I hear men talking about how women are special snowflakes I immediately assume they lack success with women and they don't even dated an attractive female before. 95% times I'm right! All the players I know don't hate women, but they don't respect them. I guess it's hard to respect women when the first thing they do after cleaning the cum of their face is calling their husbands/boyfriends saying they'll be late for dinner.

Marriage or LTR is a social construct which only benefits women and society, it's bad for the individual men! Women know very well what their options are even when in a LTR. Especially if they are attractive. As a man, if you aren't smart enough you'll find out how real rape feels like!

[–]blackqb8880 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

thank you for posting this.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

thank you so much for sharing your story. this has benefitted me tremendously. i am almost certain that i will never get married

[–]Modern__Day__Pricus0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

"I say nothing…perhaps she will figure out that this is wrong and come back to me."

If only, if only.... But, NAH. Not with women

[–]Modern__Day__Pricus0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Nothing else to be said. Great post man. Congrats to you.

"I love you baby"

Light switch

"That's why Dave is the best fuck I ever had. I came 6 times!!!"

Women have no beliefs and philosophy. Every man needs to do themselves a favor and never listen to their horse shit. I would say focus on her actions but again:

They have no beliefs or philosophy.

How can you say you love him, then out of nowhere say something hurtful about the lover you had?

Anyway, this bitch is making me mad and I never met the "Lying Whore".

Congrats again man. Very weirdly inspirational story

[–]TekkomanKingz0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

From Chad to Brad and on to Sam....

Jesus Christ...

[–]thereisnospatula0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Never been a huge fan of the sub until I read this post!

Congrats OP - you sound like you found incredible strength from within.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

We read the odd story about it - we think these are just rare occasions that happen to very few people, it would never happen to me.

We see it happen to people we know - Not every women is like that, this guy was always a duffus and he should have known better.

We see it happen to our close friends and family - That women is a bitch and we hamster why this is a rare thing or was unlucky or "tricked"

It happens to us - our world breaks down and we see thing for how they are.

The sub is a very special place. Saving each other from ignorance. The real way things work is not worse - just unexpected and different.

[–]Merwebb0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

All those things you did for her, helping, being there, are the standard advice everywhere.

All those things you did for yourself should be the new standard everywhere.

[–]cmdcreep0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm 22 and I wish I had knew TRP ealier. I know that I found it at a good age, so I can prevent a lot of grief, and that gives me great relief. Damn this colorful rainbon and unicorn fantasy of love and family, I've lived long enough to not trust anyone to commit my life to them. Also, I'm seriously looking for the next post about vasectomy. I'm seriously considering one. Looking foward to it. Great post, OP.

[–]Nebulose110 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Hitting my 10 year anniversary tomorrow. Posts like these keep my guard up. Don't get fat. Don't get happy. Don't get fucked over by AWALT.

[–]frankferri0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

It's not sustainable to run 20km a day. 20km is 12.5ish miles, and there's no way you could suddenly start this. I run long distance, and I've run long distance for 3 years. I call BS.

[–]2All_fixed_again[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I was relatively fit when I started (from long distance cycling). Also, when I started I was not suddenly sprinting 10km'. I started off gently running for a couple kilometers, then walking a kilometer or two, then running again. This went on for a few of weeks...I found myself being able to run for longer stretches as I went along. After a month or so, I was running the full distance, albeit slowly...towards end of November/December, I was trying to improve my times...and yes, I put big plasters on my nipples, they were raw after the first 2 weeks. I painfully learned that lesson in the shower one morning.

Also, I started at 95kg at the start of October, at the end of December I was 79kg.

[–]frankferri0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That makes a lot more sense. From your post I got the impression that sheer willpower caused your legs to bulge or something- thanks for the clarification

[–]666AllHailSatan6660 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Reading these kind of posts are almost unbearable to fathom, not because it's happening to a man but because it's happening to a human being. In this case a man... In all cases a man...........

[–]Njncguy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

QUITE a story. BUT I don't think it's an alpha/beta contrast as much as a matter of standing up for your own wants and not letting yourself get taken advantage of. Unfortunately, it's human nature to think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence (as in having sex with someone other than your now boring spouse is the way to go).

Be that as it may, I DO like this guy's decisive action when he saw what the story was, especially her continuing to make lie after lie.

[–]Osama_bin_Lefty0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I then called her mobile, she answered…”all_fixed_now, why are you doing this,

just leave me for tonight?”,

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST

[–]Fir3start3r0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Damn dood... You've just inspired me to think about telling my story....of 20 years that went south...

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

What a lying whore. Such an abomination of a human being...

You payed for her to get the education she wanted, you busted your balls providing for her because you loved her...

YOU HAD CHILDREN WITH HER! YOU WAS WITH HER WHEN HER MOTHER WAS BURIED!

You've done so goddamn much for her... And she lies, does this to you, and even her cousin was to help her cheat?

Wow... I'm trying to get my friend to see the truth, to see things through a red lense, but he's so convinced with the whole "we won't attract those kind of girls", "if a woman truly loves you..." need i go on...

WOMEN DON'T LOVE MEN. THEY ONLY LOVE THEMSELVES.

Look at yourself, OP. This woman betrayed the shit out of you, her kids, her friends, her honour, her dignity.... And you still loved her.

Now, imagine if the roles were reversed. Would she still love you? NO... Women only love a man for what he has to offer (good sex/money/thrill/excitement/a place to live... Either alpha fux or beta bux; but she will only give you loyalty if you give her alpha fux and not beta bux)...

[–]SeekingTheWay0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It is only after we've lost everything that we are free to do anything.

Touching story brother.

[–]LongElm0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Where's your follow up post? I feel like I KNOW you at this point with such depth and tragedy in this post. I feel it could've been any one of us.

[–]user65800 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Fuck man I needed ti read this, this is HARDCORE.

I am feeling so melancholy at the fact that my future is going this way... I am actually afraid. My gf wanted to give me back my key and I told her to keep it.. fuck I need that key back.

[–]unlimitedzen0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's like you're painfully close to being self aware, but just can't quite get there.

[–]amit2400 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

it took me a long time to read.. but dude, insane story. thanks for sharing, I wish you all the best

[–]lujanr320 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is the most liberating thing I have ever read in my life.

[–]TheJourneyForPeace0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Best post on reddit, thanks so much for this sir!

[–]Bartand0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Just to make sure here, All woman even those innocent one are raging whore in bed. OK but how and why she didn't give you sex when you were with her before thudercock and after some time?

[–]IronMeltsinmyHands0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I would've laughed like a maniac... I'm melodramatic, it's my charm.

[–]Pube_Stretcher1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I don't think you know what melodramatic means

[–]IronMeltsinmyHands0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

so im not all the way there. Let's just downgrade it to dramatic.

[–]bluedrygrass0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Women... They're the same in every part of the world.

[–]BlackHeart890 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Goddamn. How the fuck you managed not to commit murder is beyond me. Thats why the first time I suspected that my LTR might be fucking with someone else, I knew that I had to get out. For my sanity and everyone's safety, I can't fall in love with these hoes.

[–]antariusz0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Paternity test.

You think this is new behavior? You're just now AWARE of it.

[–]IndyBrodaSolo-2 points-1 points  (2 children) | Copy

Who the fuck is that Chad guy? I swear everytime I read about some alpha stealing someone's girl, the guys name is Chad, damm. Do you think that it's the same guy? Is there some apex alpha called Chad that is behind all these stories?

[–]blackberryx2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Chad Thundercock is just a name for whichever John your wife/gf/fiance/etc... is moving on to.

[–]1KyfhoMyoba0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

In the military his name would be Jody.



You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

© TheRedArchive 2020. All rights reserved.

created by /u/dream-hunter