I say this as a gay man who sees this with many of my female friends.
If you have a guy friend who makes a move and you put him in the friend zone, he has every right to not stay in your life. Some guys want to date you plain and simple. These guys probably had a crush on you from the start and pursued you in the hopes of a romantic relationship. These guys listened to your problems, took interest in your day, and cared about your needs to show you they can be a good partner. But it's not the same as a platonic friendship. If you friendzone a guy like this, he will do one of two things:
1) Stick around with either the hopes you'll change your mind (super common) or because he feels he can quickly move on and be genuine friends (rare)
2) Not talk to you again because he doesn't want to hear about you seeing other guys or hear about your boy problems.
He's under no obligation to be your friend just like you're under no obligation to date him. This also applies to men who friendzone their female friends.
[–]sleepyweaselisawakeNeighbor of the Beast111 points112 points113 points (17 children) | Copy Link
TL;DR If she's not fucking you, she's fucking someone else.
[–][deleted] 33 points34 points35 points (1 child) | Copy Link
A lesson you want to learn ASAP.
[–]coiluniverse8 points9 points10 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I was friendzoned three times in college and I was played.
[–]ugluk129 points30 points31 points (1 child) | Copy Link
What you say is important, but even more important is the definition of a beta orbiter. When women are young they have the power to attract a lot of beta orbiters. It is a demeaning position for a man to be in. Young men should know to not beta-orbit, DTB. Young men should strive to establish themselves in this hostile world, not be a pawn of some bitch.
[–]EdwardSandchest12 points13 points14 points (0 children) | Copy Link
they cant all establish themselves; its not like theres 5 bitches for every guy.
[–]ogrilla99Pez "The Pussy Dispenser" Pimp26 points27 points28 points (2 children) | Copy Link
If you're not her boyfriend, you're her girlfriend.
[–]EvilKlownz2Gettin nasty with wall busters23 points24 points25 points (0 children) | Copy Link
So accurate. When I was playing the billy beta game years ago, this.evey.fucking.time.
My favorite one was K. She blew me off one night,went to the club. She called me at 7am asking for a ride. She went home with a guy 2 hours away and he kicked her out when he was done with her. He wouldn't even give her a ride home. I laughed and laughed and told her the bus schedule. Never heard from her again.
[–]AldabruzzoThere is no mercy in this Dōjō2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Or her best gay friend. Except you're not gay. But she treats you as if you are.
[–]loneliness-incLvL 99 Rogue NiceGuy™15 points16 points17 points (9 children) | Copy Link
Not necessarily.
Sure, if she's 19, in her sexual prime with an over abundance of male attention - sure, she'll be sport fucking other people.
However, if she's older and "more mature", she will grow out of these childish sexual passions and begin to desire sex much much less.
Remember, the female sex drive is much much lower than the male sex drive. Women are dripping with sexual desire when they have no man! However, once she has you and you're hers, her desire will drop down significantly. Many women are good with once a month (ovulation) sex. If she's getting her emotional needs met with a non sexual partner, she may not need sex altogether or she may only need it a few times a year.
This is why women associate a drop in sexual desire as maturity and they shame the high male sex drive as that of a 14 year old boy (immature).
Many of TRP men are dealing only with women who are within this very highly sexualized window of the teenage and early twenties girls. The sample is skewed for the abovementioned reasons.
[–]ugluk119 points20 points21 points (2 children) | Copy Link
No, no, no, older women are starting to produce more testosterone. Their bodies are sexing them up so they produce that child. They often do so, then start seeking BB and continue to do so even after menopause. Damn whores!
[–]loneliness-incLvL 99 Rogue NiceGuy™11 points12 points13 points (1 child) | Copy Link
You're mistaken my friend.
Sure, women start to produce more testosterone as they hit menopause. However, it's only more in relation to what was previously there. It still isn't nearly the testosterone levels of a man.
But it's much more useful to observe the actual sexual desire of men and women.
It's fair to say that men desire sex except for when we don't and women don't desire sex except for when they do. Male sexual desire is pretty much constant, except for when we're out of steam or otherwise worn out. Female sexual desire rises and falls with her menstrual cycle, with age, with stress and with a thousand other factors. Her sexual desire is very far from being anywhere near constant. Her default setting is therefore to not want sex! Only when the stars align does she want sex.
When do the stars align?
An AF is a man who's very attractive from a SMV standpoint but unattractive from a RMV standpoint. A BB is a man who is not attractive from a SMV standpoint but is very attractive from a RMV standpoint. Sure, she sexually desires the AF way more than the BB. However, once again, the relative term "more" is the operative word here. She desires him more than the BB. However, she does not desire sex nearly as often as a man does. It's only when she's ovulating, desperate, lonely or in need of a baby that she suddenly craves sex all day long.
Take the hottest, wildest, most sexual girl and pair her up with the man of her dreams. In the beginning they'll have wild monkey sex all day long, but eventually she'll feel secure in the relationship and her sexual desire will return to the default female setting of being low libido.
How do I know that this is her default and that her sexual desire is the exception? Simple. Because this is a constant and her sexual desire needs to be stimulated, coaxed and excited to function. A man OTOH experiences sexual desire all the time.
Also, please see the warm home analogy.
[–]ugluk11 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I think you underplay the role of testosterone. Hormones are signaling molecules, a signal that she's hit the wall and should produce offspring. Also, the signal is valid between 30-40, before menopause hits. After that, who cares if a 40+ woman is horny or not?
[–]GTOH4U0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
Dunno, I've been told a few times that I should be doing it more than one round in a night, i think women want sex when it's with someone who really gets her going. My experience is women want sex more than I do and I'm certainly not asexual.
[–]loneliness-incLvL 99 Rogue NiceGuy™0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
🤦♂️
Let me guess the age range and context within which all these encounters transpired....
Sure, when they're turned on, they can outlast any man. They can have multiple orgasms and they can wear down multiple men in one sitting. However, how often in the life of a woman does this happen and when is it more likely to happen.
I'll wait for your answers to these questions.
[–]GTOH4U0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
20-30 age range. I've never been interested in any woman enough to go long term so obviously it could get mundane... and that's why I don't go there. Life is an adventure and women are just one element of that adventure.
[–]loneliness-incLvL 99 Rogue NiceGuy™0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Thought so 😁
Let me guess: the context in which you had these sexual encounters were more prone to sex to begin with. Contexts such as parties, bars, dances, etc.
My point is that you're judging all of female sexuality by the most sexualized age bracket and by how women behave in the most sexual settings within said age bracket. IMO, that's a poor way to evaluate things because what you're looking at isn't the regular female setting. What you're looking at is how women behave in the most sexual times and places.
Whether you care for girls of other ages is irrelevant to the point. If anything, it just exposes how skewed your thinking is on the matter.
[–]Magnum_44 1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
No you're an idiot. Men's libido peaks at 18-20. Woman's peaks at 34-37. Welcome to science dipshit.
[–]BluepillProfessorMRP Mod0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Sorry, but thems are different peaks. Women's desire is less than men by any measure. Tranny men who take female hormones lose their desire and often their ability to produce erections. Tranny women who take take male hormones are often overwhelmed and transition back as fast as they can.
Want to try again?
[–]redpillbanana51 points52 points53 points (13 children) | Copy Link
I don't know what the real situation was but I'd wager that she wasn't a great friend to these guys in the first place and that's why they disappeared thus leaving her with "no real friends".
Many girls are perfectly happy to be on the receiving end of the friendship without giving back and thus resort to behaviors like this:
https://twitter.com/alyssachubz/status/556631399822684160
[–]Celticpenguin8539 points40 points41 points (6 children) | Copy Link
Can confirm. In my experience when a girl rejects you and says she "just wants to be friends" what she wants is for you to keep giving her attention. She'll talk to you when she wants to bitch or when she's bored but when she doesn't need you anymore she'll ghost.
Not too long ago I got shot down by a girl I was "friends" with. She said she didn't want to mess up our friendship. It sucked but I got over it pretty fast. It's not my first rodeo and I liked talking to her so I genuinely tried to be friends with her, not wanting or expecting anything more. Of course, she didn't act like my friend in any meaningful way. She would talk to me at work or on text but only pointless banter. When I asked for advice about another girl I was interested in she'd respond once if at all and she would show up to group outings when guys she wanted to bang planned them but she would constantly flake on me. I was pissed after she stood me up on my birthday after telling me for weeks she'd be there but I eventually forgave her. Now a few months later she just stopped talking to me. No explanation but fuck it. I'm over it.
[–]otakuzodCeddit savior26 points27 points28 points (4 children) | Copy Link
Good on you. In the future, NEVER ask a girl for advice about another girl. If you want to catch a fish, you ask a fisherman, not a fish.
[–]ogrilla99Pez "The Pussy Dispenser" Pimp14 points15 points16 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Generally true. But talking to a girl about other girls you're thinking of dating is a great way of making them fume. So do it for the schadenfreude, but I agree, never do it for actual advice.
Incidentally, I've found the best schadenfreude comes from moving onto another girl quickly, and *not* talking about her to your female "friend", even when she wants to. Her hamster will twist itself into a knot wondering how happy and exciting your life must now be, than you could ever get across yourself.
One time, my female "friend" who didn't want to go out with me and was surprised when I dropped her after she said no, ran into me and started asking about my life. I stayed noncommittal and kept changing the subject. Finally she said she talked to a mutual friend of ours who told her all about this girl pursuing me at a party the other night and how both of us disappeared after a while. I just shrugged my shoulders and said "Oh, that Joe. He's always gossiping, isn't he? Hard to know what to believe..." and walked away. You could see the steam coming from her ears. :-)
[–]Mr_Mandingo930 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
so true.
its like asking hitler how to beat the Nazis.
[–]BluepillProfessorMRP Mod1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Fortunately he and they do it on their own.
[–]PlantsAreAliveToo0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I think hitler learned that one the hard way. you attack Moscow in winter.
[–]frikabgJr. Hamster Analyst4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Been in very similar situations one too many times. This is why I don't believe in female friends they simply don't know the meaning of the word 'friend'. A typical situation a woman friend zones me saying that she doesn't want things to change I am like 'OK lets stay friends' at which point I stop putting in all this extra effort into keeping the relationship meaning I don't call her every day to ask how she is, I don't msg her with stupid shit jokes to make her laugh, I don't listen to all of her problems, and I am not available to her 24/7 meaning I am not always picking up the phone when she rings, I also stop paying for her crap etc. at which point I am met with 2 reactions.
Reaction 1: Why did you change I thought we agreed that we will stay friends and you are so different now -> Accurate but at the same time false I can't physically afford to pay the bills of all of my friends and even if I did she is my friend right.... why isn't she paying my bills since we are such 'besties'. GL trying a woman to understand that simple fact.
Reaction 2: The friendship just crumbles and dies because she can't be bothered with actually putting in the effort and work for it to survive.
All in all women have proven to me beyond the shadow of a doubt that they are HORRIBLE friends.
[–]askmrciaJr. Hamster Analyst18 points19 points20 points (1 child) | Copy Link
The only REAL friends I had that were girls were lesbians. If I needed something from them they would be there if they could. If I invited them out to my improv shows, parties or events, they will be there if they can. If they knew any ATTRACTIVE female friends they would put in a good word for me.
Single straight female friends? Those are the worse hands down. They are not true friends. They are fine as acquaintances, but terrible as friends as they are just straight up unreliable. They will only want to be around you if they have absolutely nothing else going on in their lives or if whatever event you are planning will benefit them.
Example: They won't come to your small get together group to play game night unless there are potential guys there for them to date or get attention from. Or they will come to your small get together group to show off to whatever guy they are dating that they have a social life. So really they only come around when it solely benefits them, but its not like they truly want to be around you because they view you as a close friend.
[–]Celticpenguin855 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Exactly this. Whenever I try to plan any kind of group outing with my coworkers, my female "friends" always have some excuse to not show up but when one of the attractive, popular guys suggest going out for drinks or whatever you can bet these girls will show up all dolled up and with their tits popping out.
[–]houseoftolstoyHeavy Marauder of Truth Bombs14 points15 points16 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Ding ding ding! That is absolutely correct. There is the rare case of the girl who does make a decent friend (often a tomboy or has crossover interest in things males like), but that is the exception, not the rule. For those that have not swallowed the blue pill in thinking that men and women are the same, we know that what makes men and women different are what makes them not cohesive as genuine friends. It is no one's fault that this is the case, it is just that we need to accept the fact that men and women cannot be friends in the majority of cases.
[–]AldabruzzoThere is no mercy in this Dōjō3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Exactly.
"Let's just be friends" isn't really an offer of friendship at all. It's
[–]EdwardSandchest1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
For real, I got legitimately told straight to my face I was in the friendzone once, & I kept her as a friend because she was awesome. Definitely an outlier though
Also, I tell myself that that link isn't real. It probably is, but I choose to live the lie.
[–]giantgladiator1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
What I'd really like to is if she ever offered to do something as a friend, like with a group "hey we're going to the beach or going to see X movie or Y concert want to tag along?"
I bet the answer is no, so they were as much friends to her as she was to them.
[–]bushwicksickShaniqua Hamster Analyst30 points31 points32 points (3 children) | Copy Link
If you're going to be friends with a woman, let it be completely platonic. Never treat her like your 'sister' unless she is a genuine childhood friend. Do not inquire about her relationships, do not be her shoulder to lean on. Just be cordial. If you are rejected by a female, as crappy as it feels. MOVE ON. Do not orbit her waiting for a few crumbs. Have a backbone and stand up for yourself.
[–]frikabgJr. Hamster Analyst3 points4 points5 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Lol!!!! If I treated girls like my sister in the past things were going to be soooo much better! At least i would get a ton of self-respect back... i mean the simping that was done by me for these women in the past makes me want to kill myself!
[–]bushwicksickShaniqua Hamster Analyst2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I'm with you on that. Truly speaking, no female should ever be placed on a pedestal. They are all conniving and treacherous.
[–]loneliness-incLvL 99 Rogue NiceGuy™23 points24 points25 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Women are human beings and men are human doings. Therefore, women have intrinsic value and don't need to earn anything. They deserve the world just for existing. Men OTOH, are the ones who must earn their way in the world.
Meritocracy is a tool of the patriarchy!
Their contradictory thinking emanates from this premise. That women are human beings and men are human doings.
A wife will rebuke her husband for "wanting only one thing (sex) and not being a friend with an emotional connection". But when the same woman is single and gains an actual friend who gives her time, listens to her and does all the " emotional connection" stuff she claims she needs for sex - she friendzones that guy and expects him to stick around.
As a human being, she deserves your friendship, time, money and absolute devotion. As a human doing, you don't deserve anything in return.
Gentlemen, this is an unfair and rigged game. It's best to not play it altogether. However, if you do happen to be legally bound to this game (married), you ought to not play these non reciprocal games. If (for example) she refuses sex because you didn't fulfill [insert laundry list of demands here], you simply notify her that you're in an adult reciprocal relationship and that you won't play at all if it isn't such.
[–]SilverGryphonWorking his way to the titty top21 points22 points23 points (3 children) | Copy Link
One of the few times the friendzone is beneficial to a guy is when she hooks you up with someone else, though this rarely happens. I only know of 1 friend who got friendzoned, but then got hooked up with a different and surprisingly more attractive girl, by the same person who rejected him. She even resented her decision later on and tried to get the guy for herself, after she rejected him.
The onus is on the guy to regulate the amount of time, money and effort he provides to a female friend. Keep a few female friends if they are useful, but don't be their simp. Most would ghost you if they cannot extract resources from you anyway. Just as women are the gatekeepers to sex, you as a man are the gatekeeper to money, effort and time.
I had a few females friends myself and they ghosted me after I refused to hear their bad boy dating drama and drive them to Chad's house.
[–]askmrciaJr. Hamster Analyst13 points14 points15 points (1 child) | Copy Link
It rarely happens. Usually they try and hook you up with their ugly or fat friends. Lesbians on the other hand is better at hooking you up with more attractive girls
[–]feanors_gem4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Believe it or not, this wasn’t always the case. Most people were all about hooking everybody up. A lot has changed in 30 years.
I fear we’ll be nostalgic for even this time period in 10 years.
[–]kevin32Reddit's Ambassador for NiceGuys™[S,M] 17 points18 points19 points (2 children) | Copy Link
This post has been added to our Recommended Reading list, and considering sidebar material.
[–]loneliness-incLvL 99 Rogue NiceGuy™14 points15 points16 points (1 child) | Copy Link
Archive it lest they delete their post.
[–]kevin32Reddit's Ambassador for NiceGuys™[S] 9 points10 points11 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Good idea. It's archived, and the Recommended Reading link will be updated if they delete the post.
[–]Ipride36213 points14 points15 points (0 children) | Copy Link
It's just your turn, dude.
[–]aussielanderForks roasted sockets14 points15 points16 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Damn what a fucken monster, no wonder she friend zones his asre. Seriously stop listening to what women say they want, what they say and what they want arent the same thing.
[–]houseoftolstoyHeavy Marauder of Truth Bombs13 points14 points15 points (0 children) | Copy Link
When society chooses to dance around certain issues rather than address them to the point, we get all sorts of problems. Many young people being confused at how to approach relationships and encountering a puzzling dynamic of the friendzone is one of those.
First, we have the falsehood that men and women are the same. Therefore, it would stand to reason that men and women can and should be friends with no issues. However, we know damn well that men and women are different, thus the premise of the claim pits into question whether or not men and women can be genuine friends.
Men and women simply are not naturally compatible as friends. When you are seeking friendship, you typically associate with those of the same sex. But when you are seeking a sexual relationship, you look towards the opposite sex. However, young males are given some counterproductive information (mostly by women) that if you want a relationship, you should start out as friends with women. This is a sure way to mark yourself as someone who will only be a friend and nothing more.
But these young men are not likely to know any better, since guess what many of them are missing? A male role model, i.e. a father figure (usually the literal father). Along with the lie that men and women are the same, the idea that a father is unnecessary also falls under the same line of thinking. So many young men are led astray with advise that will leave them sexually frustrated by thinking that playing the long game is the right move. This wastes both time and energy which could be better spent elsewhere, including but not limited to finding a woman who actually would be interested in something more than friendship.
The thing is, men typically do not pursue women with the goal of friendship in mind. Whether or not women like it, when a man wants a girlfriend but only gets a friend, that is a consolation prize. A man may be a wrong to think that he will get sexual interest by pursuing friendship with a woman, he nonetheless meets disappointment when he does not get what he wanted. Friendship with a woman is really not worth that much for a man. But that also flies in the face of the falsehood that men and women are the same, since if they are the same, they must be equally happy with being friends with each other, right?
Men and women just should not pursue friendship with each other. Women should accept that men seek them mainly due to sexual interest, and men should not use faulty advice that does not get them what they want.
[–]Domebeers10 points11 points12 points (0 children) | Copy Link
A line I like to use on a girls is to say, when I get them flirting, "calm down, don't get ideas, you're friendzoned."
[–]IncitingDramah7 points8 points9 points (0 children) | Copy Link
If it's ok to friendzone guys, its perfectly acceptable to fuckzone girls.
[–]ogrilla99Pez "The Pussy Dispenser" Pimp4 points5 points6 points (1 child) | Copy Link
I think there's a huge range of behaviors that fall within this friendzone discussion, and as usual, most of the commentators in that original post are trying to make it black and white.
It's true there are clueless guys who never take a hint and keep pursuing even after the girl has made it clear she's not interested.
It's also true that there are manipulative women who collect orbiters, doling out just enough ambiguity and encouragement to keep otherwise sane guys guessing and confused and thinking he has a chance.
They're both called "friendzones", even though the situations are diametrically different. When you're in the thick of things, it can be difficult to figure out which one it is. Guys always assume it's the latter and never believe it could be at least partially the former, while girls think oppositely.
As someone who was friendzoned a few times in my youth, my recommendation has always been this: stop focusing on who's right and wrong. Focus on seeing clearly what the friendship is. Because almost always, you can tell a lot from how good a friend the girl is to you. Ask yourself: would this girl pick you up and drive you home at 3:00 if you're drunk? Would she plan a surprise party for you for no reason other than that you've had a shitty week?
In most friendzone situations, the girl is actually a pretty lousy friend, and it's almost completely a one way street. And that's not normal. If a girl really thinks of you as a good friend, she would spend time, effort, money, and energy to be there when you need her. And if she thinks you're a possible boyfriend, she'll move mountains for you without even being asked. Looking back, the main reason I got friendzoned in my youth was because I never had a real relationship before, so I never knew how a woman who truly desired you behaved. A woman who likes you doesn't forget your birthday , or avoid you when you have problems and need some support.
I don't blame guys: no one is born with experience. So you may not know what a woman who really wants you behaves like (it's quite the revelation when it first happens). But you do probably have a few friends, and you *do* know what they would do for you. Don't tolerate a woman who doesn't meet at least that standard. And most of the time, if you find yourself in a friendzone, if you look carefully at this "amazing" friend who's "so close", yadda yadda, you'll find she's actually a pretty lousy friend, one who you'd have kicked to the curb if she was a guy. And that's when it becomes easy to walk away.
[–]BluepillProfessorMRP Mod2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I think you just described no woman ever, unless her juicy fruity is secretly juicing for you no woman ever got up at 3:00 am to drive an orbiter home.
The only way a woman can be friends is to set you up and put in the good word with you to her hot friends. This is almost never done.
[–]EvilKlownz2Gettin nasty with wall busters5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I got FZ a lot back in the day. I just moved on. Most had "lots" of guy friends aka orbiters. Fuck that. I learned my lesson young. Now after years of being my own man, I see them once in a while, broke, multiple kids and just miserable. They had the chance, now it's long gone.
[–]PHUCK_THE_HIVE2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Blah, I hate these posts on popular opinion sub.
Fuck that shit, I'm gonna challenge that shit and say, no, if I'm friendzoned, I'm at least entitled to some "benefits" too!
[–]deesenaughts3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
The top response is basically implied whataboutism. The conversation wasn't about men feeling entitled to a relationship, so of course this fucking cuck had to come in. And of course reddit eats it up.
[–]Svartanatten2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I think this had a great point. Many women confuse those friendzoned guys with actual friends.
But the guy who engage in a friendship and hopes for it to evolve into romance are not real friends. Their wish for something more makes them in some cases submissive.
They will go the extra mile to prove they are a good guy. They most likely will not call the woman out if she behaves poorly.
I tend to look to how they treat their crush compared to their real friends. Because plenty will put up with more shit and act "nicer" to their crush. I'm not implying that they are shitty friends.
Many women are fully aware if the guy wants more then friendship and they can use this. Lead the guy on and he will try hard...
The main issue here is the power dynamic. With Mr friendzone desperately chasing the approval from their crush. This put them at risk if being used.
But even if the woman don't rly take advantage that won't make it a friendship.
I have a female friend, not very close but she once told me about how this guy was such an amazing friend, always there to support her if help her with stuff.
So I asked her if she thought she was receiving special treatment from him since he got another goal then friendship. That did not sit well.
Don't recall her answer, but I know the guy and he definitely treated her different, like getting her gifts, doing her homework or whatnot.
I don't remember the details, but he definitely tried quite hard. It's both stupid and sad. Won't work but she was happy to have a "friend" that would do just about anything for her...
[–]death_ray_mx0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
yup it happened to me long time ago, Just when we were getting closer to something she decides to go back with his ex bf, but she wanted me around, I said fuck no , don't really need more Friends, these bitches want the full package and keep everything for their own sake.