I made a comment in regard to a post on the parent sub and was asked to expand upon it and put it here. My post follows, then I'll add some additional thoughts at the end.



I wanna date find someone who respects what I come with

Ignoring the convoluted wording, this shows up time and time and time again with these THOTs: the demand for respect.

"R-E-S-P-E-C-T: find out what it means to me." Aretha Franklin sure could belt out a catchy tune, but that's one hit that should have ended up on the cutting-room floor. Three generations of women have taken that as their anthem to their detriment. Why do I say "to their detriment"?...

... Because most women have no idea what that word means to men. For men, respect is the coin of the realm in which we live and die. Men sink or swim in society because of respect: it's not one of those words that should be thrown around lightly. Men will endure a lot if they gain sufficient respect for doing so. No respect: probably not worth doing. I don't say that in a self-serving manner, either ("Only do things that benefit you by gaining you respect"), but rather the other way around ("The fact that no respect accrues to this activity is a strong indication that it's probably a worthless activity").Note Conversely, when an activity causes a man to lose respect he'll endure a lot to avoid doing it.

Pairing off with a hot woman gains a man respect. Pairing off with a single mother brings about an even bigger net loss of respect. Granted, it can get convoluted: since men are hard-wired to care for women and children (especially those of their "tribe")Note2, some respect from some quarters will accrue to a man who jumps on the single-mother grenade. The genius of feminism is that it has taken activities that formerly would have brought about great shame and self-loathing and turned them into pop-culture virtues. Thus a woman who would have been thought of as a trollop unworthy of a good man has been transformed into a "sexually-secure woman whose experience makes her a good candidate for marriage... better than some frigid virgin." The more damaged the woman, the more "manly" the guy who takes her aboard. It's insidious... and largely effective. A man who wife's up a former cc-rider with a litter of bastard children will be told that he's a "Real Man"TM for doing so... unlike those "insecure boys" who won't "ManUp"TM. They've gotten entire societies to turn "chivalry" on its head (or at least the Disney version of chivalry).

I had to explain this concept to my wife a few months ago in a completely different context. I was doing some not-very-strenuous volunteer work and no fewer than five people criticized the way I was doing it. Mind you, the activity pertains to a subject in which I am a bona fide expert with a Masters degree and three decades of experience. I told her that I would not volunteer the next time it came up (it's an annual thing). She asked me why, and I explained that as a man of somewhat demure stature and slight build, I have had to spend my entire life fighting for a fraction of the respect I've seen other guys with far more modest accomplishments get simply for being big/tall. Despite all I have done and all the credentials I have amassed and all the dangers I have faced, respect is never mine by default. Having to climb onto the counter to reach the top shelf is the least annoying part of being below-average in height. When guys like me point out that we have earned the right to be treated with respect because of what we've done we're accused of having a "Napoleon Complex"... there's just no way to win, so in those cases I choose not to play.

That's probably why I take it a little personally when women demand respect for themselves with no evidence that they have done anything to earn it, while also declaring that men who are, "Less than XXX tall"", or men who demand a personal history of virtue from women they date, or men who demand anything from women, or men who even have preferences when it comes to women, or men who don't want to take on her debts, her bastards, and her baggage are "NOT REAL MEN" no matter how much they have done to deserve it.

Don't take this to mean that I'm unhappy with my lot in life or that I am a generally bitter person. Far from it: I'm generally a highly contented guy. This is one aspect of my life (albeit an important one), and I've managed to secure a fair amount of respect from those whose opinions matter to me, including the best kind (self respect).


Note: Exception exist, but the rule is generally applicable: the self-respect one gains by doing the right thing outweighs the loss of respect from others for not going along with the crowd. I've lost good friends for doing the "hard right" when they wanted to do the "easy wrong," but even in hindsight I wouldn't change anything.

Note 2 (edit): That's probably part of the reason why single mothers of mixed-race children have an even harder time than those with same-race children. While pairing off with a hot woman garners respect, breeding with her gains even more respect. So having a step-child of the same race appears to the causal observer to be the product of that union, whereas a child that is obviously from a different union (as indicated by the race of the child) indicates that the man not only is a cuckold, but is knowingly a cuckold (a universally respect-crushing status).



Now my additional thoughts.

Since THOTs on hook-up apps don't use the word "respect" to mean what men do, what do they mean by it, and why do so many of them demand it? I think it's a combination of things. One that comports with my observations of the shifting nature of language is that some of them are using it as a synonym for "respectable" (as in: esteemed, estimable, prestigious, recognized, reputable, reputed, respected). Since this pops up almost exclusively in the profiles of Epiphany Stage women looking for AB (although she'll settle for a BB), that's certainly plausible in some cases.

Not all cases, though. The woman who wrote the quote that started all this means something entirely different based on the context. She wants a man who's willing - eager even - to jump into her life and save her from herself share the load he had no hand in creating. In this case it seems that "respect" entails a healthy portion of "being non-judgemental," since one doesn't harshly judge a person or situation that is not somehow flawed. Again, this shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what "respect" means. As a military officer I showed respect to my superiors (and a different kind of respect to my subordinates), and I expected my subordinates to show me the respect due to a superior. That said, I had a standing rule that anyone could (and should) tell me I was wrong if they knew something I didn't. My usual line to the privates, sergeants and junior officers under me was "If I'm about to do something stupid, tell me!" Once they figured out that I wasn't going to bite their heads off my subordinates were very free about giving me their inputs, and I appreciated it: they kept me out of trouble. But Mizz Single Mom doesn't see that: she just wants to be above accountability... rank without responsibility. That's not "respect" at all. At best it's toadying and at worst it breeds malicious compliance.

Finally, Feminism has taught women to act like men and to want the things they want. From the cradle, Western girls and women are bombarded with the message that they are special, and deserving of all good things, and "boss babes," so it's natural that they (being herd-followers) simply incorporate respect into their long lists of things men "need" to provide to them to be worthy of their company. Men desire respect above nearly all else (often including sex, although arguably guys want respect because it get's them sex - "One market to rule them all" in PUA-speak). And because "Alpha" men get respect from men and women (plus romantic/sexual interest from women), they think that having respect of their own will increase their SMV/MMV like it does for men. That's nonsense, of course: men don't want manly women.