699,178 posts

On platitudes, imperatives, and unsolicited advice

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July 13, 2015
363 upvotes

One of the defining characteristics of the red pill has been discussion of social theories that buck mainstream culture, things that sometimes highlight the ugly underside of human behavior.

That discussion has been a core staple of our content here and has helped countless men find an identity and purpose in this culture.

Some of those discussions have been along the lines of discussion of what female hypergamy is, Briffault's law, and various other gender politics. I'm always very interested when I see content that puts a new perspective on a behavior or interaction that I haven't considered before.

We've analyzed female behavior through the lens of female solipsism, we've discussed women's behavior with other women, we've discussed the feminine imperative and the lengths women will go to when given opportunity.

But one thing that I've always steered the sub away from was becomming a seddit-style self-help board full of platitudes and unsolicited advice.

Don't get me wrong, if somebody asks "what would you do in this scenario" share your strategy. If you have a life strategy that you think brings good results, by all means share it.

But if the title of your post is an imperative statement, don't post it. Just don't.

Feel free to give us your theories, why you believe certain actions will maximize certain outcomes. But don't give unsolicited, feel-good advice.

The fact is, most guys don't come here to be told what to do. They come here for raw knowledge on sexual behaviors so they can decide what they want to do themselves.

Just today, I have removed a handful from our top list a series of submissions- while they may have some quality information, they're imperatives and they read like platitudes.

Yes, of course, I'm going to do more things selfishly than before now that I'm a priority in my life. But this isn't Eat. Pray. Love.

The article you should have posted was an analysis of how women manage to be prioritized in our minds- both by culture and biology, and how to counteract the effects. Not "do it for you." Doing it for yourself is a shortcut that skips the underlying theory on why it's effective. Of course it's good advice, but we're here to learn how to come to these conclusions ourselves.

If you want to post something along these lines, you better have a thorough analysis to back it up. No more "it just makes things better when you're selfish, ya know?" These posts are short and offer little value, and will be removed.

A list of removed titles from just today:

  • Do it for yourself.
  • Raise Yourself.
  • Rid yourself of the "One Size Fits All" mentality
  • Travel alone.
  • Go out alone.
  • Become the Monster
  • Stop voicing your opinions.
  • Ignore the "other guys" shit test

Before you post, ask yourself: Is this a discussion of fundamental human behavior that will help others decide how to act? Or is it instructions on how to act?


Post Information
Title On platitudes, imperatives, and unsolicited advice
Author redpillschool
Upvotes 363
Comments 81
Date 13 July 2015 02:42 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/34636
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/3d4qb2/on_platitudes_imperatives_and_unsolicited_advice/
Similar Posts

Red Pill terms found in post:
hypergamyshit testthe red pillfeminine imperativesolipsism
Comments

[–]magus67850 points51 points  (12 children) | Copy

For the most part, simply internalizing RP principles and overlaying it on existing "self help" stuff makes a lot of those kinds of posts redundant. While I myself rather enjoy them anyway, I can see the logic in not including them.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 84 points85 points  (10 children) | Copy

They weren't bad content in and of themselves, but they did start growing in number and replacing the kind of quality analysis that we take pride in, so I think now was a good time to put a stop to them.

We'll be okay without them.

[–]Schrodingersdawg14 points15 points  (2 children) | Copy

I wrote the "Become the Monster" post, and I'm curious, what could've been improved about it apart from the whole "imperative" part?

[–]randomuserwot9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

It may have missed the analytical part of WHY this works or would be beneficial. The imperative part you figured out by yourself. I'd be interested in an updated post on your part that follows the guidelines. (If that's possible and okay with the moderation)

[–]laere28 points29 points  (5 children) | Copy

Id love to see more career and finance driven RP posts.

[–]ThedragonCarnage3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

ME TOO! this sub offers no bullshit straight to the point advice... i think it should stretch to all aspects of life...

[–] points points | Copy

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[–]ThedragonCarnage2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

no, it depends from someone to someone, but either way, in order to actually GET it, you have to start a rigorous self improvement period...

[–]ColdEiric14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy

I love this.

You mention that the posts you removed were good. But that's why you removed them. Because they were merely good, when they could have been excellent or superb.

[–][deleted] 113 points114 points  (10 children) | Copy

Can you also start deleting the plethora of "AWALT CONFIRMED" threads with a paragraph of something some bitch did to some poor sap?

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 72 points73 points  (3 children) | Copy

We do remove anything that appears low quality. If we miss one, feel free to report it.

I do like AWALT posts, it's a good reminder. But not crappy ones.

[–]colucci16 points17 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yeah I think AWALT posts are a-ok as long as, you know, they're valid.

A story about how your wife was happy, family was great and you both were in your prime and then she cheated with her boss or some random lowlife from the bar. Yeah, that story's worth hearing.

An AWALT story about how I opened the door for some lady, and she didn't say 'thanks'. Uhh, go cry elsewhere dude.

[–]2niczar7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

My problem with AWALT posts is that often they refer to women who are clearly crazy. Mostly cluster Bs, BPDs specifically.

It's much more important to show how an otherwise normal woman will behave, as part of her normal sexual programming.

By the way we need to educate people about NPDs/BPDs and codependents. Not just because being involved with them, romantically or otherwise, is almost guaranteed to end up in a disaster. But also because they are the bulk of the SJW movement, and they tend to occupy position of power where they wreak havoc. Thing is, once you know what to look for, identifying them and their problematic behaviors is very easy.

Maybe I'll try to write something up.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan28 points29 points  (3 children) | Copy

Woman told me NAWALT today when I said something about women she didn't like... AWALT confirmed!

I mock, I mock. I totally hear you. That shit gets old, quick. We don't really mind that kind of thing in the comments, because it can be relevant to the topic at hand. But a topic? No. Such things are too weak to constitute their own topic.

[–]couid10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy

I agree. If you really need a daily reminder just set the name of your alarm in the morning to AWALT. I don't particularly like the front page of TRP being clogged up with AWALT posts.

[–]mike_m_ekim0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Agreed.

A person can reply to a good AWALT thread with his 'AWALT confirmed". No need to create another thread just to agree with something that has been posted elsewhere.

For example, I voiced my agreement by posting a response to moodyprism, not by starting a new thread.

[–]Lyradex-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

For myself I don't mind them. Sure, some of you guys have seen a million of them, but for me, it's like getting to see the "eureka" moment.

Half those posts are by fresh pill swallowers and I, for myself, truly enjoy watching another person disconnecting from the matrix.

It's moments like that, that helped me (mostly) get past the anger phase myself. The feeling that it isn't hopeless, the knowledge that others are finally seeing through the illusions.

/jm2c

[–]COW_WHISPERER11 points12 points  (1 child) | Copy

Would it be possible to make some kind of red pill subreddit specifically for RP men's self improvement?

I agree that posts here should focus sexual strategy & behavior, but many of us have gained a lot from self improvement & even feel good posts are nice once in a while. There's certainly an audience for it, considering how high ranked some of the recently removed posts were.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy

[–]ReddishBlack29 points30 points  (5 children) | Copy

I was actually browsing the sub yesterday and frustrated with the seddit vibe. The quality of this place comes from the descriptive theories, not the prescriptive.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 27 points28 points  (1 child) | Copy

The quality of this place comes with from the descriptive theories, not the prescriptive.

Exactly.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Wanted to thank you guys for making this one of the most open, informative subs out there. I think people can really talk about anything here.

On other subs, you get banned for not thinking like others. Here, you only get in trouble if you're not thinking for yourself.

[–] points points | Copy

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[–]reisli2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

They have and they haven't. Yeah, most information in all threads can be found in the sidebar.

But they're saying "Don't tell people what to do, give them information and let the people decide themselves."

And not "Don't post anything." It's more about writing style rather than content.

You can change a prescriptive piece into a descriptive piece by changing a few words around.

[–]Squeezymypenisy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's kind of funny to see some of the weird philosophy junk that floats around here. I usually just hit the flair for field reports and posts marked redpill example.

[–]1oldredder26 points27 points  (5 children) | Copy

the 48 Laws of power in the sidebar would fail this test

[–]1aguy013 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

He explains why each law is what it is.

[–]2Sepean7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

If you buy a book, the advice in it isn't unsolicited.

[–]1oldredder3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

if you read this subreddit the advice isn't unsolicted by the same measures

[–] points points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–]ToshiroOzuwara12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

It was the Red Pill for all of the "you have a moral obligation to mankind/men/women" etc.

[–]spectrum_929 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy

It seems like every week a new category of submissions is deemed unwelcome, or some new format or criteria is imposed on all threads. I understand the need to weed out poor quality content, but it's getting out of hand and posts are becoming too uniform. Shit posts will be downvoted or ignored, and if they aren't, then what's the big deal if people here are enjoying them? It's worth suffering some low-quality content if it means we can have more creativity and diversity of posts.

[–]1DRMMR7612 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy

I agree completely. It's turning into a "we were here first, and now we're closing the door behind us" kind of thing. TRP is starting to resemble a lecture forum where only the old and established posters are allowed to really say anything new (and with 5,400+ of my karma coming from TRP, I'm not exactly saying this from the perspective of a n00b). Hell, that attitude is exemplified by the fact that they don't even have to follow their own posting rules. Hate to say it, but there are a fair number of Endorsed Contributor threads that could use a Summary and Lessons Learned section real bad to cut through all the long winded self-aggrandizing prose and quasi-intellectual mumbo-jumbo. Too many are starting to fancy themselves as some kind of zen master of enlightenment and try to push that image through the way they write.

And you're spot on that all these new rules being pushed through are making it much harder for the real new guys to relate. Even Neo had to have a Morpheus walk him through his transition. Very few of you old timers were always Alpha, otherwise you never would have needed to come here. It might be a good idea to remember that before greeting most new members of TRP with the equivalent of "Shut the fuck up and sit down in the corner"

Just went a looked at a few of the newer posts by new members, and wouldn't ya know it, there's the obligatory "This is a low value post and should be deleted" line again. Frankly I'm getting pretty fucking tired of it.

Just make creating new threads in TRP only available to EC members and be done with it, or get the fuck off the high horse and stop pretending anyone who isn't a Rollo or IM has nothing of value to say. Maybe, just maybe they're still learning how to say it the right way.

[–]magus6781 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Spot on.

The attitude is mostly accepted though, even by new recruits; all the dangers and benefits of guru-ism apply.

Not that sub is ruined or anything..but it is a bit of a fine line to walk. It is important to be mindful of it

[–]TRPAlternative4 points5 points  (7 children) | Copy

So would adding a potential idea still be okay?

For example, saying 'Consider Travelling alone' and displaying the benefits of travelling alone.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 4 points5 points  (6 children) | Copy

Be descriptive of what dynamics are at play, and what problems may arise, rather than prescriptive of what you should do.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy

Can you expand on that? I'm not a native speaker so what you said only kind of made sense.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

Don't tell other people what to do.

Tell them how the world works and let them decide for their own actions.

[–]reigorius3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's basically a slightly different way of saying what you say plus an added part of why you think this theory works or is beneficial. So instead of saying: You should travel alone. You say: The benefits of travelling alone and why it is helpful.

[–]1APookIsAPook0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Explain the theory behind why taking an action will be beneficial. For example, instead of telling people to get control of their lives and hit the gym, explain that SMV is related to outward appearance, how working out cultivates discipline and why discipline is a good trait to have for achieving certain goals in life, etc. From that understanding, they will have the opportunity to make an informed decision regarding what action they want to take.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I guess you can say that's what I did in my post "Travel alone". I think what got it removed was mainly the title itself. Not the content.

[–]reigorius0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

So basically most flairs should be replaced by [Theory]? I suppose people will circumvent this new rule and use the flair [FR] for posting their thoughts. I would.

I think your new rule is a good rule and encourages people to think more deeply about what it is they want to share.

I'm finding this sub getting filled with: Here is what you should do. But these posts are like the ten commands and not much how and why it works, just fucking do it, because look at me.

But do you think it limits people sharing insightful experiences because they are not as analytic and capable of theorising as it is now required? Even though the content is worthwhile but not spread out in part theory, part how & why it is possible this works?

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy

Thank you for removing the clutter and streamlining trp experience. The theory of female behavior and how it ties into evolutionary biology/psychology is what brings me here. The rest of the material is tediously sifted through to find the gems of insight.

I'm new here and can't post yet. I realize this is off topic but I'm just dying to share this information, so please excuse my impropriety. I would like to suggest looking into the work of Robert Sapolsky. The understanding I've gained from him allowed trp to slide down easily. His entire Stanford corse is on youtube and it's called Human Behavioral Biology. I would suggest watching Human Sexual Behavior first and if captures your interest then going back to take the entire course. The truth shall set you free!

[–]reigorius1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

And why is it good, care to add a little more of why? Otherwise I won't feel tempted to Google this person and his theories.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Because it will give you an understanding of the world which is invaluable and place everything you've learned from trp into a scientific context which is undeniable. Every man woman and child should be forced to take this course. Here's the link, no go fuck yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOY3QH_jOtE

[–]S74RK3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

Is this a discussion of fundamental human behavior that will help others decide how to act? Or is it instructions on how to act?

Excellent way to put it. For the benefit of us newer to contributing, can you provide an example of how one could fix some of these post titles?

For example, "Go out alone." definitely reads like an imperative, i.e. "this is how you do TRP". Perhaps if it was titled, say, "Going out alone can expand your comfort barriers" it would be better?

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

Learning to expand your comfort zone by going out alone is a small tidbit that could easily be at the end of a well thought-out post on how the human psyche tries to avoid the unknown. It shouldn't be it's own post at all.

[–]S74RK0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Gotcha, so this is less about lazy titles and more about upping the depth of quality in the posts themselves.

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Pretty sure that's what RPS meant. An analysis of a situation deconstructed in such a way that others can follow your logic and come to the same conclusions is the ideal type of content.

Imperatives are lazy. Anyone can throw them around.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (7 children) | Copy

Maybe this is unrelated, but what's up with all the flairless threads on TRP recently? Very irritating.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy

It is irritating. Because the mods have to go correct other people's threads.

[–]RedSugarPill2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Maybe they should be deleted. It acts as a filter and implicitly forces an increase in overall quality. I think one of the mods included this in the new rules about a month ago—maybe it's strict enforcement time. You won't get any complaints here.

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedBigMan2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Except that some people post from mobile phones so they can't easily flair their own submissions or possibly at all.

[–]reigorius0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I thought it was only visible once a flair is added?

[–]RPmatrix0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

for some reason when I post there is NO 'flair' option, but as soon as I've posted, the Bot pm's me telling me to 'add flair' and then the 'flair button' is there!

I can't figure it out

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Yeah, reddit's dumb.

There is no way to flair before you post. And the bot only checks once- immediately. And yet, still people don't flair their shit.

[–]RPmatrix0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I've had trouble posting a few times because I couldn't find the 'flair' button!

Any ideas why this might be? (I'm on a laptop not ph)

[–]Senior ContributorSkorchZang3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is fucking great news. Shows respect toward the other men gathered (who may well be more experienced than ourselves) if we instinctively avoid jumping on the soap box and advising everyone "do this, do that" unsolicited.

The younger someone is, the more the likelyhood that they were never taught to respect other men. In this way at least. It's good to feel the little friendly burn as that well-intentioned post is scrapped by the mods, forcing one to learn a different form of delivery. A lack of feel-goody imperatives that's horrifying for women and perfectly appropriate for groups of men, each one his own sovereign in his world.

[–]Donald_Fuck1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

100% agree. I read one of the articles you removed and I found it insightful and inspiring but it would be more useful if applied in the method you've described. The compulsory post format does most of this for the submitters. Essentially, this is what happened, this is what I did, this is the result, make of that what you will. The comments lead to alternative actions, challenging theory and related experiences.

[–]1edwardhwhite1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

There still are dozens of these posts up there.

[–]SexistFlyingPig1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I used to go to a men's group. We had a couple of rules, two of which apply here:

1) What happens at men's group stays there. Our significant others were in the same social circles as other men's SO's, so anything shared might get passed around, even if names had been removed.

2) No unsolicited advice. If a man says, "Here's a situation I'm facing at work", then you listen. You don't offer any advice, you don't try to second-guess his decisions.

I don't think 1) is reasonable here because this isn't a closed group. Anyone can lurk and read, so the expectation of privacy doesn't exist. But 2) is. I've offered plenty of advice to other men, here, and on MRP, but I've always thought it was solicited when I offered it. Plenty of men need help applying theory to their own real-world situations. Frame doesn't hold itself, and it's sometimes hard to see the right path.

[–]Hatorader1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

With all due respect to the mods, don't you guys think this sub is getting a bit too bureaucratic and politically correct? You're turning it into a board meeting when it's supposed to be more like fight club. But what the hell do I know anyway.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The post didn't call for political correctness.

In fact, have you even read my last submission before this one?

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/3debh5/how_the_feminine_imperative_is_destroying_reddit/

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Too many 2 month trp teenagers posting "advice" because their gf did what a teenage girl is wont to do.

I applaud your efforts.

[–]Squeezymypenisy7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

I ignore their advice, but its entertaining to read their field reports. It beats the typical post talking about how much marriage sucks or some weirdo thinking he is a stock market god. All of these monk mode posts are getting weird.

[–]disposable_pants0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

While we're discussing what constitutes acceptable content, what are your thoughts on political posts/comments? I'm talking about the types of comments that typically grow out of a discussion of feminism's effect on culture and veer into "and here's all the problems with the left in general." This isn't a political forum, it's a sexual strategy forum. I understand why abstract theoretical posts might need to tiptoe into political territory, but diving directly in is off topic.

[–]Hokuto199x0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah. To be honest being told "do this" seems like pick-up advice, not really adding any depth to my understanding. I want to increase my understanding in order to better do the things that I want to do, not the things some other guy thinks I should do. E: If the title of the post had been "what I learned by going out alone" I'd be more interested in reading it than if it just says "go out alone." The imperative seems to imply we're looking for the same end.

[–]1APookIsAPook0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The mod team here is fantastic. This sub could so easily go the route of seddit, but you all do a tremendous job. TRP is unique because it discusses theories to explain human behavior, which then gives people a foundation of understanding from which proper actions will naturally arise.

On a side note, there have been some posts about finances/career lately. I think a lot of people, myself included, are interested in that topic with so much of the community geared towards self improvement. Do you see the sub encouraging more of that type of material in the future?

[–]BRENDORVEGAS0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I appreciate the quality control

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This post is right on the nose. Over the weekend I felt like I had walked in to /r/seduction.

[–]AquanautST0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

"Ignore the "other guys" shit test" this just changed my life ...

[–] points points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Self improvement is fine. Outline steps, theories, and strategies.

Just don't make a post called "go outside and lift right now, bro"

Because that annoys me.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (4 children) | Copy

I feel that rather than unsolicited advice, we've become "watered down with newfags" to quote another terper. It's not bad per se but they're all going monk mode so I think that that is what's turning this place into a self-help board rather than a place for sexual strategy, they're trying to convince themselves to go along with their own monk mode, this is in addition to their lack of sidebar knowledge and general life experience.

Like I saw a post about investing in stocks, which was done by someone clearly in their 20s, it's like, you've made fuck all money with this, I don't see why you're advocating others to do it. I swear this annoys me to no small extent, it's so BP, they've got this idea that investment= instant millionaire and if you don't invest in the next Apple you still make some money.

To make money on stocks, someone else is losing money, it's not appearing from thin air and only a few make decent money on it. That's not to say you can't make money off investment, you can, but not in the way anyone else will tell you, like I know a few things, but naturally I wont tell anyone, anyone who does sell or tell schemes is aiming at a bull market, investment in stocks is typically a bad investment for most people.

[–]1oldredder2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

economics is the core of the red pill - except somehow reddit got it wrong and thinks it isn't. It is. Outside of reddit this is not how the red pill is handled/seen, not what it was since before reddit or 'theredpill' subreddit even existed.

Every time you score pussy some other guy isn't scoring that pussy. Same thing

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

I agree but just as new TRPs shouldn't be giving dating advice unless they have rich TRP dating experience that gets them laid, they shouldn't be giving advice on the stock exchange unless they have rich experience and it has made them good amounts of money.

[–]SunShoe8820 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Agreed. I would like much more field reports and observations, so we test some of these theories. Too much navel gazing and half-cooked theories are diluting this place.

[–]TheJessee 0 points0 points [recovered] | Copy

Love the post, I've always been a huge fan of internalizing principles and self reflection as it expands your knowledge beyond that what you have been told as you start to think about everything, i certainly think the threads you removed would prove of way more value if they were thought provoking and made you think twice about something you would say or do in certain situations rather than just say "do x or y and be successful"

[–]1DRMMR760 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Sometimes that's exactly what people need, especially newer people who are still trying to wrap their heads around all of this.

[–]Senior ContributorMentORPHEUS-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks once again Mods, for keeping up with the Sisyphean task of maintaining the quality of content.

I'd like to suggest another delete-on-sight trigger, namely the use of the term TERPER for TRP-er. It sounds like Derper, and always seems to be used by trolls from other subs.

[–]Johnny10toes-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

And don't forget about the off topic sub.



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