tl;dr: To get over "approach anxiety", learn how to initiate conversations with people without any other goal to the interaction than the initiation. Practice it. Then approaching the beautiful women will just be a natural part of your already developed habit of just initiating talking to people.
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Intro
It's Sunday night and I feel like writing. This post is based on my answer to a question posed a few weeks back in some comments about "how do I learn how to approach strangers?"
As an older dude, going out in public for the sole purpose of looking for cuties then rushing up to them trying to convince them to give me their numbers - "cold approach" - is just unseemly. But I'm an older dude, that's how I roll. Others have great luck with it. But many seem to struggle with the process.
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The Problem
I see a lot of posts here and on / ask about either how to cold approach the pretty women (the "cheat code" method); or how the poster has gone out and cold approached x-hundred number of women and totally failed. The way I see it, the problem is that these kinds of "cold approach" exercises give off a vibe of "I'm trying to get laid" and "I'm desparate to get laid." Women sense this - they're good at that.
The problem, then, is that you haven't learned how to sincerely and naturally initiate a conversation with someone. You get butterflies, your palms sweat, your voice chokes in your throat, your eyes get shifty.
Fake - that is to say, insincere - opening lines with the goal of getting a phone number then exiting is an unnatural way of going about meeting your next future ex wife. It will have you unnaturally pushing the conversationg toward the number close - your unspoken goal - rather than having a natural end to the convo that may or may not have you deciding to accept her number.
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The Natural Way to Meet People
Take this wisdom from my 50+ years of breathing: you have to want to meet and learn about new people, sincerely. I was blessed with an uncle who could talk to anyone - literally he spoke with governors and big-city mayors and men of importance on a daily basis, but would take 20 minutes to discuss the night's sports game with the guy taking the tickets or parking his car. I asked him his secret once and he told me that he just genuinely likes meeting new people. No purpose, no hidden agenda, in talking with people other than that.
This can be learned, because when I was younger, "other people" were just nuisances or there to be exploited. Now I see the wisdom in meeting them, learning about them, getting to know them even if for a brief 30 second fun chat. I've become that man who can start a conversation with anyone about anything or nothing at all.
But it has taken years of practice before it felt natural and sincere.
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What Is this New Theory, Do Not Read This?
It's not a new theory you silly reader. "Approach anxiety" comes from putting too much pressure on the incipient relationship before it's even begun. Gotta get the digits - Gotta get the digits - Gotta get the digits.
I was at a networking event back in [my old city] and some random dude zooms through all the little groups shoving his business card into everyone's hands, then books it out of there. He had learned that if you trade digits, you're succeeding. But did he get the business equivalent of "laid" from those insincere digit exchanges? Of course not, nobody knew anything about him, why would they send him business?
"Cold approach for digits" is an outcome based way of meeting someone, and it requires that stranger to meet the expectations you've created for the relationship, but haven't told them about. And when they don't meet those unspoken expectations that you haven't told them about, you get disappointed. Approach anxiety comes from anticipating that disappointment (also known as rejection) because the number of disappointing outcomes starts to pile up quickly.
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What If I Told You Your Success Rate Could Be 100%?
So what to do? Come at it from a different perspective, that is, learn how to initiate conversations. That's it. That's your goal. Don't worry about the digits, don't worry about what you're going to talk about three minutes into the convo, don't worry about just the right moment to ask for the digits. That will happen.
When your goal is to initiate rather than number-close, you win *every single time you initiate*!
Just learn how to initiate. With anyone and everyone. That's an important part of it. Not just the pretties, but the store clerks, the bus driver, the guy taking your ticket as you go into the hockey game, the waitress, the lady standing next to you looking for eggs in the store ("When did buying eggs get so complicated?" and lolz ensue).
Why? Because do this 10,000 times like I have and it becomes second nature. Initiate mini-conversations everywhere, and you'll find yourself doing it without even thinking. Woman I'm going out with now rolls her eyes when she sees me gearing up to initiate - but she loves the social proof that I know someone everywhere we go after years of doing this in my new hometown.
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How, Dude?
Glad you asked.
Talk to everybody. Everybody! Even if it's just "have a nice day" to the checkout lady at the supermarket, say something to a stranger every chance you get just to get used to initiating talking to strangers and getting out of your head and past that lump in your throat and that rush of adrenaline that stops you from talking to strangers. Inure your body to it and it will eventually stop happening - you'll train yourself to not react when you're about to initiate.
Learn how to do it in a natural setting; that is to say, in every day affairs. It's normal to talk to the cashier at the grocery about your groceries; it's not normal to run up to a pretty girl at random and start talking (remember that dude rushing around passing out his business card - was that you "cold approaching" last week?). Having some canned chatter that's appropriate to a dozen circumstances is great; even better is if you learn to improv based on your then-present circumstances.
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Here's Some Bullet Points Because People Like Bullet Points
By "canned chatter" I don't mean a corny opening line that you use on everyone. "Chatter" has to be (a) situationally appropriate, (b) get their attention and interest, and (c) be geared to get a response. All three.
Examples of initiating a conversation (and please, *smile* when you say this):
- To a cashier: "I'll bet I'm the [rudest/funniest/best looking] person to come through your line today". This will get you a minute or so of banter.
- To the guy taking your ticket: "I sure hope [our team] can beat [rival team] tonight" (yeah, that simple - you just started a convo with a stranger, man!). This will get you anywhere from a minute to three hours of banter.
- What's your favorite team? If you see someone with a ball cap or shirt with your team's logo on it, smile and say "Go [your team]" and when they smile back, ask about the team - how are they going to be this year, boy they stunk last year, do you think they'll beat [rival] next week, how's the new coach going to work out? Likewise, if someone is wearing your team's rival's logo, smile at them and say "Boo [rival]!" and have the similar conversation.
- Two ladies at the tea shop the other day had the same unusual color shirt on - me, walking past them: "Did you two coordinate outfits to look nice for me today?" Smile! They said some clever response, and we all moved on with our lives.
- To the waitress last night, "Big crowd tonight, huh? You would think the cold would keep people at home." Chatter chatter smile chatter.
- Girl in line behind you at the store wearing yoga pants, "what's your favorite yoga pose?" They *always* answer that one. Tell 'em "that's easy, pick a harder one!"
Talk to men and women, young and old, pretty or ugly. It's all about practice and comfort to desensitize your body from that jolt of anxiety you get right when you formulate the idea to inititate. Learn how to initiate and it will become second nature.
You get the idea - it's not "pickup lines"; it's just having something clever to say to start them talking with you. Talk for a minute then exit the convo.
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But Do Not Read This, How Do I Get The Precious Digits?
That's for another post. For now, I'll say it again - go out there and practice initiating as your goal, not having a stranger fulfil some unspoken requirement you've put on them which then results in multiple "failures". As soon as you open your mouth to instigate some chatter, you've already won, Champ!
Great post. I think this is a seriously underrated concept.
“The hungry don’t get fed” as I’ve heard it put. When you go into that cold approach with a goal in mind, stressing over it - you’re not getting it. You’re not truly outcome independent.
Your post details the correct attitude to have, and it matches up with being outcome independent too
Everything comes back to DGAF and outcome independence. Everything.
The post is just another way of going about it, with real world examples.
I get where your coming from, but I don’t find this practical.
You can just wait for the starts to align to get that perfect moment where you are having a blast of a conversation with a girl, and then somehow you both are interested.
What it comes down to is simply not giving a fuck if she’s down or not, there are so many women out there just go by volume.
It’s a complicated concept. It doesn’t mean not having a goal in mind, rather it means not caring if your goal is met and truly just having a good time.
You’re still approaching with the intention to see if it works out and moves to sex. And you can still playfully lead it there if she is willing. But you don’t care if it gets there or not. You’re having a good time regardless of how the other person reacts.
As soon as women pick up that you’re going to be mad or salty or disappointed if it doesn’t lead to sex, the entire vibe is killed.
Yes I agree. For example, other day I see this girl with her backpack pockets all open. I wasn’t thinking of approaching her for the sake of approaching her, so I told her about it.
When she turned to look at me I thought she was cute so we talk then ask her number tell her she’s cute bla bla.
Never answered, what I don’t do is sit there and cry a bout to but simply move on and think she wasn’t that into me simple.
What did you text her?
Surely would make sense to take this advise, calibrate, and go for the number close if you're acutely aware that she may be interested... otherwise it's a missed opportunity
The hungry don't get fed. I dig it. Or as Chesterton said, (to paraphrase extremely roughly), 'No one eats for nutritional content. They eat because it smells, tastes, and looks delicious.'
Reading “Day Bang” has been life changing for me. After getting married, I curled up and stopped being that outgoing social guy. I literally forgot how to talk to strangers. Day Bang has changed that.
You’re right in saying that if you initiate with everyone, I’ll feel the same once you initiate the hot girl- it’s just what you do!
Great post.
Haven't read "day bang".
Dang I wish I wrote this. You get it.
That is, you won't have the nerves popping up because it will be natural already to do this because this is who you are, it's what you do.
Lol I just looked up this book and it’s got some HORRIBLE reviews. Pulls out wallet anyway
Authored but the famous Roosh who has since gone off a cliff into fundamental Christian land because his sister died 🤔
Turns out his frame for life was in fact as strong as a wet paper bag
Use amazon audible free trial if you already haven't , day bang is on audible
Excellent post. I learned game by working as personal trainer and prospecting everyone at the gym to be my client. I've personally benefited from this advice. I know it works.
Thanks GLO.
I agree that it works. It's like private label basic Dale Carnegie.
I’m having this issue, cold approached while commuting to work a few times these last weeks, they seem interested but once I text them they never answer.
But of course they know you’re looking to get laid that’s the whole point of talking to a woman
I initiated a casual convo with a homeless man in Starbucks the other day and he ended up introductions me to a random girl and it was extremely awkward
Homeless man was a true bro
How do you overcome the feeling when you actually piss someone off? The feeling that you’re the bad guy ruining someone else’s day? Is it just a matter of reps?
Often when I try initiating conversations I’ll get stuck in my head and be deathly afraid of messing up the conversation. Afraid of becoming a complete fuckup nobody likes. Inevitably this is a self fulfilling prophecy and the other party feels my discomfort...
Go talk to someone else and feel better again.
“When we lose we die a little but when we win we are reborn”- pleasant conversation is a win.
Start small, do a warm up: before you get to the venue, get off 20 min earlier and walk to the venue. While walking say "hi" to EVERY person you meet. Do this until you feel comfortable with it, then add "hi, my name is xyz" and progressively add more things.
In the venue itself use an old rule of thumb: open a set before you get the first drink. The way to not be inside your head is to stay outside of it, meaning you talk to people ALL time. You finished talking to one person, start talking to another.
To stop worrying about the outcome, stop thinking about it, at all. Ignoring the "don't do it" voice in your head is as much of a skill like anything else. Ignore it once, then twice and so on. The best way to ignore it is to take action b/c action overrides emotions.
Try meditation too, haven't seen a person who games and says that meditation didn't help him.
finally, most people will default to being nice and friendly with small talk, provided you don't speak and look like Charles Manson.
Most things is b/c you have learned patterns (not gonna like me, gonna reject me) and to overcome them you need to unlearn them, and then replace with more beneficial ones. Say you're afraid of spiders, can you start a spider handling shop on day 1 or will you need a few days to get accustomed to having 1 small spider in enclosed container first?
Samskaras, in Indian philosophy.
Common sense rather.
Or IOW must be pro philosophy if a bunch of PUA nerds can figure that it without reading it, just dong cold approaches mechanically.
That's why you smile when you say it. You're having a great day and are just naturally spreading that feeling. Don't say something stupid and you won't piss off anyone. And if you do, that's a "them" problem, not a "you" problem.
"Often when I try initiating conversations I’ll get stuck in my head and be deathly afraid of messing up the conversation."
That's why you do it all the time, everywhere you go. Reps is the whole point of the article. Get the feeling of messing up burned out of your system. Make it your new normal.
And just have mini-conversations. They don't have to last all but 30 seconds. The point is initiating not closing.
You think major league pitchers just show up and pitch a baseball game? No, they practice, practice, practice.
Actually piss someone off? Fuck if they can't touch you, who cares? Laugh about it. Ruin someone's day? How good was their day in the first place? You ruined something that was holding on by a thread 😂... Nothing to be afraid of
understand that no ones opinion of you but your own matters. let people be pissed off, who cares, that's their problem.
Unless you're doing something odd or you live in an area where people are highly untrusting due to threats in the area, most people aren't going to be pissed about being spoken to. A fair amount will be glad someone even bothered to engage with them. Most won't really feel one way or another about it.
I'm curious though. Do you get angry when someone tries talking with you?
My logical, conscious brain would agree with you. My subconscious does not.
No, in fact I respect people that make the effort to have friendly conversation, considering we’re complete strangers.
The sad thing is I’ll often be self conscious even if it’s someone else that initiates.
The only problem I have personally, is I feel that the feminised media are trying to shame men into NOT being bold. Eg "creepy guy teaches PUA classes", of which females read, and then believe it's creepy that they're being approached. Or am I just overthinking this bs, need to relax and just know that approaching is great for self development (and some girls take it as a compliment)?
If someone's only approaching women for the purpose of putting their penis in the woman's orifices, then the chances of coming off as creepy skyrocket. What I'm saying is a good pick up artist should be skilled in chatting up anyone, with no ulterior motives like sex, money, influence, etc. It's pretty easy to tell when someone wants something from you but has nothing to give in return. Dudes with novice game are the equivalent of the panhandlers who use the gas can story (my car's out of gas, give me money). The average person can smell there's something off and the panhandler just wants to take, but not give anything back in return. Dating and sex aren't too different from the analogy.
Anyone practicing approach should at minimum be able to have short conversations in passing with old people, cashiers, drive thru attendants, people in line with you. People with whom there's no expectation of gaining anything. What many women learn to pick up on early is when a guy is looking to take (sex, time) more than they'll give (care, time, trust, respect, fun). You have to understand what the woman you're pursuing wants. This is sales and the product you're selling is yourself. Ask yourself if you were hitting on yourself, why would you want to respond favorably? With the caveat of also imagining that sex isn't a priority. Because for many women, sex just isn't the same priority it is for men due to biology, hormones, culture, and all. Or they can get it easily if they do have a high sex drive. Mostly you have to UNDERSTAND. YOUR. CUSTOMER. What do they want and how can you provide that?
Could a TLDR basically be shoot the shit with everybody that crosses your path.
Yep.
But I wanted to explain the theory behind why shooting the shit is great practice to get rid of jitters for when you are opening a cutie; and give some examples because people need examples not theory.
And also try to hit points (a) through (c) in my OP: (a) situationally appropriate, (b) get their attention and interest, and (c) be geared to get a response; although even "how about this rain" works when there's nothing "clever" coming to mind.
I too also needed those examples. I’ll be looking out for your number post.
I don’t know man, older men being chatty certainly has some charm, but those lines in the bullet points are extremely unnatural.
Some of them are the most generic bullshit one can say, others come across as cringy.
Everything depends on how you say it, but not everyone has the charisma to pull off the same lines. That’s the difficult bit: you cannot give canned examples because people of completely different personalities cannot pull off the same lines.
Yeah everyone's different but essentially the same thing applies: can't get laid if u don't try at all
They're not unnatural because every one of them has naturally popped out of my mouth at one time or another in the last year and they always get a fun response. Being friendly to a waitress is unnatural?
Most are ad hoc, the [sports team] and yoga pants ones are in the can. Got the [sports team] one from my uncle, having seen him use it all the time. And they work. Always.
Convo Initiated.
I gave "canned" examples just for that purpose: as examples of how simple the initiation can be. Also, try the yoga pants one. Guaranteed.
And generic or not, the point of the post is to learn how to initiate. Your opening salvo doesn't have to be the greatest line ever, it just has to be sincere and meet (a) through (c) as I noted.
IMO the "I bet I'm the rudest person to walk in here" one can come across really cringy if you're not an older guy who's expected to have more of an unapologetically eccentric style of communication. I don't doubt you've pulled that line off but I doubt most guys here would. The other lines you gave seem a little more universally practical for us, the yoga pants one seems good, but also like you say it doesn't matter, just talk to people
... with a wry smile and strong eye contact. It's just fun man, make 'em react! I'm sure they appreciate the break from the tedium.
Or, come up with a half dozen of your own canned chatter for ordinary situations you see every day. Do what works for you.
i'm 22, i pull shit like that off. it's not about age. it's about owning it.
if you say shit and don't give a fuck cos you think you're awesome, you pull it off.
It's just unexpected if that's the first thing you say and wasn't rude at all before that. The only thing that happens is you just got them to think about all the other people who came through that day who were actually rude.
It's like an inside joke between cashier's or service people. You could stand there and hear all kinds of stories if you wanted to. That's not my cup of tea though. What happens around here is once people see you are social they want to hold you up for way too long with their gossip and personal bullshit with zero awareness of your time.
Very good post. Being social in this manner also keeps one's spirits high and mood happy.
The business card analogy hit the mark for me. Obviously no business owner in his right mind would want to stick to a single client, especially if that client has many other vendors to choose from.
In a sense Game is basically just advertising yourself. You are both the product and the salesman.
The first thing is the "cold approaching" methods (largely suggested by PUAs) are not supposed to be outcome-dependent. Any good teacher will tell you that it's mostly a numbers game. The focus on hot girls is pretty obvious: a lot of guys are stuck in having polite conversation with random people but can't break that wall and evolve the chat into seduction and date.
Your topic sounds a bit like one of those Neil Strauss tests for really awkward and socially underdeveloped guys, like talking to 30 random people, making random compliments and so on to let you be more comfortable socializing. At the same time, your strategy also is very similar to the indirect-type of cold approaching. It feels like you are unfamiliar with the several variations this kind of advice have on the community, alongside with the lingo.
But I'm hyped for your next post about the digits either way.
Interesting info. I never really studied the genre except for a few blogs, ROK, Blackdragon sort of thing. So yes, I'm unfamiliar with the body of work of PUAs. I'm just saying this is how I do it. I come here to get that last 10% of refinement, get rid of or temper some Beta behavior that I'm comfortable doing, but as a tool it's better not to do; and pick up techniques and methods.
TBH when I went single after my last LTR ended three years ago, I've had no problem with women, I think my longest dry streak was about a week. Also turning 50 helped - something about it boosted my "DGAF" attitude.
" tests for really awkward and socially underdeveloped guys,"
That's who my post is geared towards - those guys posting "I've done 300 cold approaches and got zero digits" or "how do I meet women" over on /ask. Just breaking through the wall of how to talk to strangers without coming across as try-hard.
i’ve been doing this at my college. just being friendly with everyone and i take any opportunity for initiating conversation. the thing is, this isn’t really normal for teenagers/early 20s kids, they’re very cliquey or reclusive. especially nowadays i think everyone has some form of social anxiety. because of this i’m having a hard time calibrating my game. also i’m in the same environment every day and things like reputation come into play. should i ask the girl out after the first interaction or should i wait considering i’m gonna continue to see them around?
Try to push through the resistance by being persistent. That doesn't mean in every interaction push them until you get a good response - it means be friendly every time you see the same person on campus or off, even if it's just to say "Hello" every time you see them.
Interaction 1: "Hello, cool pink backpack."
Interaction next: "Hey pink-backpack girl, how was class?"
Don't ever stop being friendly no matter how many times you get the no-eye-contact-grunt in response. By the end of your term, everyone will know you as that friendly guy - great social proof because you'll be known everywhere you go. Be the better person, always.
It'll teach you to be friendly in the face of apparent rejection.
I can't tell you when to ask a girl out in the interaction, others here are much better at that than I am. Keep reading, keep practicing.
Amazing post. You took the words right out of my mouth.
Can confirm this is absolutely, 100% true. Socializing stops being a switch you can turn on and off, and suddenly you ARE social. It's almost as if you cannot stop yourself from throwing random comments at people and inquiring about their stuff.
Great job mate. Cheers,
This takes me a little way back to recovering from my tarnished social years. Back then my parents had me drop out of high school, and I ended up stuck at home for 3 years. Cue social skill decline. I promptly recovered when I had the chance by leaving home and doing exactly this: talk to everyone. It did me a lot of favors in the social skill department. It would appear it’s about time for me to do it again. Solid advice. The cashier line is gold.
I love this wholesome post, the laid back attotude of a guy who doesn't need 'to get it', yet, because of that 'get's it'. I always asked myself another question which seemed appropriate for meeting new interesting people (and girls) what do I provide for making them feel better? Why should anyone sacrifice their time for a convo with me. Your uncle did the same: Because people like people who genuinly have an interest in them.
It's kind of the same when you go to the club. You will do so much better when you go there to have genuine fun with everyone instead of preying on girls. And if you can't have genuine fun there, pick a venue where you do or do something other than a club.
I did so much better when I picked the clubs by how much I like the music instead of picking popular ones. Actually the girls will approach you when you have fun.
100% this. I only go to venues for artists I like. Girls gravitate towards the guy who's having fun dancing and enjoying the music, easy pickings from there.
TRP grade post
I just wish I could change the title - I started with the title as the premise but changed it as I started typing. LOL.
This is something I’ve been struggling with/thinking about for a little while.
Do you talk to EVERYONE?
What if you know by experience that this person is not going to be receptive to your chat? The reason I ask this is because a lot of people I (used to try to) talk to get offended very easily and speak so much vacuous shit themselves, neither of us get anything out of the interaction.
I don't talk to everyone. Sometimes I'm just not in the mood.
"I'm offended" is a shit test.
I dated a 20-something chick a few years back who said that every time I teased her. "Too bad" I told her, unreactively, and moved on. But I had "Daddy" game going with her.
Talk to the "offended" ones. You're doing it to build your skills, and maybe you'll figure out a way to push through their shit and get a real relationship going.
Ignore "I'm offended" or any other response, and keep persevering.
I'll be a bit more specific. I live with a bunch of people who just speak so much boring superficial shit and are offended by any thing i might say. Thankfully i have friends and a social circle who i can just be myself with, but these people are so PC it's insane. I had a similar dynamic at my last workplace. Also thankfully I realise most people out there on the street aren't as sensitive and full of shit as my flatmates and I can talk to them just fine.
The shit test is worth persevering through if i'm trying to fuck them yeah, but for a pointless little chat? I haven't found the reason to persevere with people like this yet, they're not offering anything on the other side. If we don't get on and i'm not trying to fuck them, it doesn't seem worth it. I'd rather save my energy for where it matters.
My question really is, have you met people like this, and have you ever had a similar conclusion?
Realize that 90% of the communication you'll do as an adult is superficial nonsense. Don't fight it because that's the reality. But it's the lube that greases the gears of a complex society and keeps everyone from going ape-shit on each other.
Whether with your roommates, a clerk at the library, the guy putting tires on your car. Nonsense.
Yes, perservere through a pointless chat because most chats are pointless. Plus you'll learn how to keep a smile on your face no matter their reaction.
I don't know come up with some teasing response, "Is it because I'm so handsome, is that what offends you" and keep smiling as you say it. Or some other tease, A&A, ignore, etc. Basic shit test responses.
Like OP, I talk to a lot of people and basically just speak my mind and I’ve never had anyone tell me they’re offended. I mean I literally can’t think of a single time.
This is just a guess - do you give off a vibe that makes others think they can manipulate you by saying that? If someone said it to me, I’d be like “that’s life” and keep going because I don’t care.
I would add one thing - the #1 thing people want is to feel important and to feel appreciated. The next most important thing is your personal energy (are you an asset or liability). Witty banter and blah blah - that's great - but that's still focused on you - making you interesting, making you the focus. If they become the focus and your energy is positive, then you truly succeed in making it a great interaction.
In other words, if you lack charisma and are somewhat boring in their mind BUT you really really appreciate them and are very positive in your energy - they will love you and want you to be around. It's not you on stage, it's them.
What I realized is that even the most famouse richest and high value people still want validation. Everyone on the street that you meet wants validation. Giving it will never annoy someone unless you become clingy(meaning they can't do what they want to do because your following them around validating them.) So don't do that and you will make everyone around you enjoy your presence, of course overdoing this will result in a loss of respect in others if they think your time and effort is free. My thought process is that I will validate anyone (who I don't have a problem with) if it doesn't take any effort, takes less than 3 seconds and doesn't give me any negative consequences.
Got this same advice years ago and started doing it. Girl I was with in Jan said "nobody gives a fuck about your life and here you come Mr charming chatting up a storm, you realize nobody does that?" Another funny one is they think it's flirting. Fuck knows why. Chatting with a waiter couple weeks ago and commenting on his(gay guy) cool tattoos got us free pancakes.
Literally just show interest in someone for a couple mins and you just made their day. Works every time. OP is 100% correct.
Do you really want to spend time with someone whose default is unfriendliness?
Great story about the waiter, same thing happened to me a few weeks ago, just being friendly to the dude.
The context was "nobody cares about your life" as in nobody cares about other people. She didn't say it towards me, as in MY life and nobody cares. I didn't do a good job of describing the context.
Thank you so much for this, my guy. As a guy who refuses to use social media sites aside from reddit and dating apps. This is golden.
When I'm getting a beer for me and my mates and waiting for the barman, I'll always strike up a conversation with the person besides me. I never have the goal of fucking if it's a girl, but it has gotten me countless of numbers without starting to talk with that goal in my mind.
"Hey, we're over here having some drinks and watching the [sports game]. You and your friend should come join us."
#superhero level RP to your friends because they're all too pussified to initiate, which is one of the hardest parts.
No I just like to talk to people when i'm waiting.
Great post, would you mind sharing how you changed from this
to this
On the one hand I would like to want to get to know new people but on the other hand I just cannot force myself to want it. How do I change my believe system?
I went from being employed at a business where all I had to do was work and cash paychecks; to being self employed where if I didn't get new clients, I didn't eat.
I also had some life problems with family going on that had me depressed and uninterested that I resolved myself out of.
Where I’m from this is called Stroking by the old guys. You basically let a person talk as you engage. People love to talk to someone encouraging them (stroking it out of them)
Many years ago when I was learning I worker for an tech company which had a big canteen and coffee shop, staffed by older women mostly. So I started just chatting with them. Pretty soon they know you by name and you get to hear all their business. But in a light way. Get lots of freebies as well.
Good for the soul really
This is an issue that took a lot of time to realize: that I was bad at it. Striking up anyone, everywhere, and just letting the conversation flow is not only an interesting, but also trains your game a lot, because you are more comfortable generating conversations so you can focus on your moves.
My biggest problem has been talking too much, and too much about myself. Lately though I've realized that when a cutie brings up a topic (movie/show/food/vacation), she wants to talk about it (meaning, talk about herself) not hear me talk about it.
"Tell me why you like [topic]" is a great canned response to that that I'm trying to use more.
Fantastic post. Thank you for sharing your wisdom. I've initiated 7 conversations at university since I read the post on Friday!
It's easy, isn't it?
When the goal is just initiating the conversation, rather than number/kiss/fuck, the conversation itself has less pressure on it because you've already achieved your goal.
Then later you can work on steering the convo to number/kiss/fuck if and when appropriate.
So you see absolutely ZERO issue with that being the end goal. Just... fuck that's it?
You're ways are going to catch up w you. I guarantee it. You're just "winning" right now so you fail to see it
I've been winning for 50-plus years Babycakes.
And I don't see an end to the streak any time soon. Including earlier tonight.
Say, what have you got against teaching young guys how to be confident and how to go up to women and talk to them? Seems like you have something against people being friendly to each other. That's what my post is all about.
Read the original comment I posted. The comment that's a reply to your og thread. I didnt have an issue till you made the end goal of your post fucking and teaching that. Your end goal should be knowing someone and loving them and if your end goal is fucking (no issues with that, we all have hormones and some people dont want to get married or live the bachelor life for the rest of their life). More fucking power to them BUT, you need to be 100% honest about that from the start. Dont lead people on
You seem like a nice girl.
But you might be a little advanced for the intended reader of my post.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhh noooooooooooo I made a joke on reddit oh my gosh!!! Haha. This condescending nature and the vapid and dismissive attitude doesn't help your cause in any way. This is why people are disgusted by your "movement". I wasn't being rude till this post and I get ignored (prolly cause you read I'm a woman and stopped reading there) whilst happily responding to anybody else who wanted to flick your sac in a congratulatory manner and had zero questions 👌 👌
Golly gee, and the community is quarantined FoR nO rEaSoN At aLl!!!!!!
Not sure why this wasn't posted as a direct reply to you but I said go to "new comments" and you'll see my og reply
First time ever, I upvoted and commented before reading a post.
Basically, you want people to cold approach anyone and not discriminate between cold approaching men and women and do this untill it becomes natural. IOW you want men to learn how to cold approach mixed sets and be social without looking like a player. That's basically what PUAs do while doing indirect, social game.
This article is written as anti-player/PUA, but contains most of what players/PUAs do while gaming.
You learn "what to do and what not to do" by failing as much as succeeding. IOW by excluding the failed attempts you exclude a large portion of experiences you could learn from.
If you're starting you're going to look desperate even to the people you're not cold approaching.
Another thing is, women know why did you approached their group. IOW they pretend that they believe you care about some made up reason, while in fact 100% knowing you want to fuck them.
That's called approach anxiety. You get over it by repeating the process a few hundred times until you experience, learn and internalize subconsciously that nothing bad happens, even if you get rejected really hard by rally hot girl.
If you don't have a goal in the conversation (instadate, number, kiss/fuck close) you're not really escalating the interaction, you're merely socializing. Nothing bad in socializing, but then again the question arises how long can you and how long should you socialize without fucking her. Naturally the answer is however long you want. So the follow up question is, in that case why are you prolonging the socializing part and not focusing on what you really came there to do (which she knows you did and since she didn't reject you, she wants you to do): picking her up and fucking her.
Was he born like this or did he learned to do this by opening everyone he met until it became natural to him?
Approach anxiety comes from you being afraid of the consequences of being rejected. The shame, the laughs, the looks, the self-worth depreciation etc. The thing is, it's all imaginary, we think this is what's going to happen but in reality nothing happens.
Nobody's doing (or did) "cold approaches for digits". We do cold approaches b/c we want the girl, so the first goal is to try to pull the girl the same night, do an instadate, day2 and finally if you can't (for whatever reason) do any of that you get her number and work from there.
Any PUA will tell you that you have to be outcome independent. If it was possible to check, I bet that every RSD video since 2005-ish has that phrase used at least once. This is why you don't understand the root cause of AA. It's not b/c we don't want to be disappointed by not getting the number b/c of prior expectations. That's b/c we don't have prior expectations we put on the girl. You imagine we do, but like with AA it's all YOUR imagination how AA looks like.
Just like your uncle did and just like any player/PUA does.
The entire premise of your article is anti-player/PUA, you follow it up by providing a list of openers for people to use. IOW you're advocating for having what PUAs call a "situational opener". You even break it down to a mechanistic "how to list".
Advice given by PUAs since 2005. Also this sentence...
...and this one is the real gist the article.
Having something clever to talk about - you mean like a situational opener PUAs use?
Correct. Learn how to open anyone, without nerves, without a set goal in mind other than being friendly. The pick up skills come later. The post is for people just starting out, who are having trouble even talking to strangers.
I read advice like "pretend you're lost" [in your own fucking home town] and ask for directions" and it makes me actually feel bad for the women who are subjected to this nonsense.
Yes! Practice. If you had to throw a first pitch in a major league baseball game as your very first pitch in front of a crowd, you'd be sweating nerves. But because professional pitchers practice, and have done it a hundred times, it becomes second nature for them when it really counts in the World Series or whatever.
Yep. My post isn't so much about pickup than it is about getting noobs used to just talking to strangers. Pickup can come later, or it may happen naturally. It's just one skill set to practice. But if the only time they talk to a stranger is Pickup, it will come across as "pickup" and the alarm bells will go off
I wish he was still around to ask him. He made it look natural. For me it was a deliberate choice to mimic him and his success with people.
It's all "outcome independence" and DGAF, Baby! But saying "outcome independence" without explaining or showing what that looks like doesn't help, I think.
I never read the "PUA" stuff or watched videos. This is just what works for me, and what I see as a first step toward the nervous noobs learning how to talk to people. I read these posts and cringe when I read "I went out and approached 300 women ...", that in itself reeks of desperation. Learning to steer any one interaction naturally towards getting the digits can be learned later. But first the noobs have to learn how to talk to people.
Great input, thanks Skepp.
Is this why you put "dont cold approach girls for numbers" in every paragraph?
Needlessly. She'll reject you after the initial few sentences of "social politeness" ("you are here, go left to get to there"). Afterwards she won't be bothered by that at all. If the situation happens in bar/nightclub she won't even remember you or outright won't even acknowledge your question.
You decided to model a natural's behaviours and it turned out to work. Same with PUAs and cold approach.
Saying "dont cold approach chicks for digits" doesnt help either if you don't understand what cold approaching looks like. Basically, you took a wrong assumption then said "dont do it like that". Again, why the "cold approach bad" narrative?
As for explanation and examples, every RSD video (especially older ones) drill this down, as do a lot of game/PUA material.
You want to learn how to fish. You read a guide how to fish. You go out and fish until you learn how to by fishing every weekend for a year. Must be desperation not practice.
You want to learn how to write code. You read a guide how to code. You start writing code until you learn how how to by coding 5 days a week for a year. Must be desperation not practice.
You want to learn how to pickup women. You read a guide how to pickup women. You go out and pickup women until you learn how to, 3 nights a week for a year. Must be desperation not practice.
If you're steering conversation towards getting the number you're not "naturally getting the digits", you're running game which is what PUAs do.
Your post is anti game/player/PUA narrative driven and pro "just be social" bordelining on "just feel good and be yourself". Had your intention been to write "noob guide to start talking to people if you never talked before" you would have done so.
I'm not writing that cold approach is bad, I never mentioned it being bad in my post.
The point is that "just fucking do it" doesn't seem to work for a lot of people posting here and at /ask. If your "just fucking do it" guy went fishing 300 days in a row and didn't catch a fish, it might be time to back away from "just fucking do it" and start breaking down the process he's using to see if somewhere along the line something's not working properly.
And if he's fouling his line with every cast, he'll never get to the catching a fish part of the excursion.
In my opinion, a lot of the problems people seem to have with cold approach is anxiety - fouling their line with every cast. Learn to talk to everyone, naturally, and that anxiety will pretty much disappear whether it's a cutie or not.
Personal experience - hasn't worked for me. I'm really social with people in general and tend to be good at making friends with coworkers, making small talk with cashiers, etc., but when it comes to initiating conversations with cuties, that still brings up lots of anxiety for me and is what I'm trying to work on (while working on raising my SMV).
I think there are separate issues here. If a guy has issues talking to a cutie behind the counter in a platonic way, your advice applies because he just needs to learn to talk to people in general. But if a guy can make small talk easily with strangers but has issues flirting with girls, asking them out, etc., that's a separate source of anxiety.
From your post:
Which is basically doing game like players/PUAs do, not "natural way". If anything "just fucking do it" without understanding what you're doing is not going to get you far.
AA is something different than not being able to hold a conversation.
AA is before you approach and is caused by being afraid of the consequences of being rejected.
This (which is not AA)...
...comes later, after you opened. It generally shows up with different symptoms than what you mentioned ("You get butterflies, your palms sweat, your voice chokes in your throat, your eyes get shifty.") namely with being impatient, pushy, trying exact same thing multiple times despite it failing, escalating too fast, where it clearly seems like you're trying to tick a checkboxes in a todo list.
While I can agree with "learn to open and hold conversation with anyone if you're a newbie that never did it before", flirting with girls is very different communication from talking to a guy about fishing. So while "talk to everyone" is a good general advice to get rid of AA, learn to vibe and so on, JUST talking to girls is not enough, not unless you want to get somewhere with her faster than BP dating few weeks before first kiss. B/c if "just talking to girls" really worked on girls we wouldn't need game, PUA and TRP.
What a cliff hanger. I’ll be waiting for that number post.
How do I get a reminder when he post it
It’s pretty simple, have the conversation. If at the end you like the person say “hey, I enjoyed chatting with you. I’ll grab your number, we should hang out some time” something like that
Better yet:
... as you hand her your phone.
Or something similar.
I’ll grab your number.. that sounds like absolutely terrible wording
Damn, that’s means leaving the house and becoming interesting otherwise I’ll become a PUA with nothing much to talk about- dammit!
Cold approach just for the sake of it is so cringy... Turning your back to ask for her fav yoga pose, really?
It's how grown ups behave when they're out in public. They make small talk with each other.
Works every time. Don't be a dick about it and don't just blurt it out.
"Hey funky color yoga pants! What's your favorite yoga pose?" Do it just like that.
Don't forget to smile. Channel Vince Vaughan in "Swingers", be loose and casual
you're so money baby and you don't even know it.
she wants to party... she wants too.
Do the kids today even know what this means?
I think the definition of grown up is more more complex than being able or not to cold approach or small talk to someone.
If it works for you, go for it bro. For me it seens like someone who is thristy.
Small talk takes much more than just cold approach, context is important .
I bet it's Downward Facing Dog
Absolutely do *not* say this.
No, I was just joking. Actually that entire line is too cringey for me to say.
Find what works for you, Champ.
The broader point is that it doesn't have to be complicated. Simple and superficial is just fine.
Any book recommendations?
go out and fucking talk to people. That's the whole point.
The other day I was at the grocery store checking out, and I noticed the cashier’s name tag and thought it sounded pretty. That’s it. I didn’t find her particularly attractive and I had no intention of ever seeing her again.
I would like to say I gave her a genuine compliment and went on my merry way, but I chickened out because I’m still learning to grow a spine. But that kind of interaction is how you can learn to start a genuine conversation.
Yep. Think of it as practice.
"Cool name. I had a cat named [her name] when I was a kid, LOL" or something.
Something Something, Models by Mark Manson
Is it supposed to feel like your first week at the gym? Like initially it’s gonna be a little painful and you’re not going to feel like saying anything or having anything to say?
Fuck your feelings, you want to get laid don't you?
That's why you have some canned, situational chatter, that you can pull out whenever, like the [sports team] one or something clever to say to the cashier.
The only thing easier than opening is not opening.
You know. I'm a woman. I can't say that the methods to approach women aren't a little... strange but tbh.
Seeing posts like this, some of you remind me of will Smith from the movie Hitch. It may seem odd but I listened to what he said about "would you have noticed him if he hadn't employed these methods" speech and ya, I get it. Some women are hard to approach.
I can only hope however that after or if you GET the girl, you display your true authentic selves instead of this "constantly trying to be charming" side. Based on my limited knowledge (I haven't gone very deep in this subreddit yet) it almost seems like it's more of a pickup strategy. Is that correct?
Edit. Its also hard to stomach some of the posts at the top. BUT theres shitty people in every group so I dunno.
Just go to "new comments" and you'll see my original reply
This looks good, too depressed too read rn, commenting to come back later
Basically, talk to everyone
Dude...delete the gym, hire a lawyer and tell your ex girlfriend to sue Facebook.
I've seen it all over in this sub, the guys swear by it...
In seriousness though, I hope your day gets better bro. You've got this.
Why should I listen to an older dude who is still chasing pussy Talking to random people for no purpose is boring and can get you in trouble Women are always horny sluts they all wish one day a stranger will approach and lead to sex also everyone here knows you don't ask for a number unless you can't fuck
Can you please elaborate? And give a better solution instead of asking for the number?
generally, numbers at night are worthless. most guys approach at night venues because they're poor and have day jobs. just go for gold.
numbers during the day are the only choice you have usually. sometimes insta dates or going back to fuck will work if the stars align.
i quit posting in this sub awhile back. truthfully, looks are 90% of the game these days. lift, work with a photographer, and put in effort. not much else to it. don't gotta talk to every idiot you come across.
That’s some boomer shit right there mate
Technically I'm a few years too young to be a boomer.
Apparently a boomer is anyone born 1920-1995.
It’s the largest generation in history.
Blep.
Naah pointless communication is for spergy nerds
Or don’t approach people not sure why guys even want to approach people just focus on yourself