Feminist journalist decides to lives as a man for 18 months, discovers that men’s lives are just as hard as women’s

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August 12, 2015

E: Didn't noticed this was posted before. Still valuable though.


Lesbian and feminist journalist Norah Vincent lives as a man for 18 months. Finds out women are more privileged than men. Also, red pill truths galore.



Norah Vincent is a lesbian and feminist journalist writing columns for the LA Times and The Village Voice among others. As social experiments she decides to live as a man for 18 months. She becomes her male alter ego, Ned Vincent. Her motives are as followed:

I wanted to enter male spheres of interest and see how men were with each other. I want to be friends with men and I want to know how male friendships work from the inside out.

So she joined a male bowling team, a sport she totally sucked in. How did the men react? Responding to the question why “they didn’t run her out of town”:

It is the most amazing thing because that shows the generosity that they have.

To her surprise, they accepted her, they didn’t mock her at all.

The handshake was unbelievable, it blew me away the first time I shook hands with a guy, a strange guy. It is strange because you think of women “We are so nice, we are so easy, men are so mean.... complete opposite. [...] They just took me in, no questions asked.

So she develops friendships with these men. At some point she decided to reveal herself to be a woman to her closest friend in the bowling group, later the rest of the group. Guess what? They accepted it and took it well. However, looking back they could tell she was different from the other men.

They showed me up as really being the one who was really judgmental because they are the ones who took me in, not knowing anything about me. They are the ones who made me their friend, no judgments attached.

After the reveal, Norah and the friend became closer and the friend became way more open about emotions, something uncommon among men, according to Norah.

There is a tremendous potential for tenderness among men and I am not sure if that is always realized and it is terribly sad.

So far she found out that men, in comparison to women, are less judgmental but also less tender (say, stoic) to each other. How about sexuality? Before the reveal, she also visited a couple of strip clubs. This is where the interesting part comes in.

I really ranced smacked against the difference between male and female sexuality. Female sexuality is mental and male sexuality is a bodily function, it is a necessity. You just HAVE to do it.

Another interesting quote, on the lack of intimacy in strip clubs

I saw the men there, I saw their looks on their faces, I saw them sitting alone, sitting there burbling. This is not about appreciation of women, it is not about appreciation of their own sexuality. It is about an urge and that is not always that pleasurable.

Men have had the tears and emotional expression sort of pounded out of them from an early age. By the time they are men they don’t even have the vocabulary anymore or the emotional awareness to really say what they are feeling.

Norah says she was never, ever, aroused when going to the strip club. Her sexuality is mental, men’s is not.

It is a drive. Because we do not have testosterone in our system, we do not understand how hard it is.

A man can get intimacy by approaching women outside the strip club and develop a relationship, possibly. Some of Norah’s comments on this.

In [approaching], women have all the power. We just sit there and with one word, “No”, we crush someone. The thing is we don’t have to do the part where you go across the room and you go up to a stranger and say the first words. Those first words are so hard to say without sounding like a cheeseball, jerk or whatever else.

She even managed to get some dates (30!) dressed as Ned. On the question if she had ever fun during those dates, she answers she rarely had any fun. Instead, she felt the pressure to prove herself. She was shocked that women had no interest in soft men. Her prejudice was that the ideal man is a woman in a man’s body. She found out women want manly men. Funny thing is that after she revealed her true identity during the date, some women still wanted to pursue the relationship because “they connected”.

So she even goes to some sort of men camp (see video) and eventually just snaps. She checked into a hospital with severe depression to not being able to play the role as Ned anymore. Her views on men changed forever:

Men are suffering. They have different problems than women have but they do not have it better. They need our sympathy, they need our love and they need each other more than anything else. They need to be together.

I am so much closer to myself. I really like me and I really like being a woman. [...] I think it is more of a privilege.

I focused on certain points. If you have interest in knowing more about the experiment, you can buy her book on it here.

Lessons learned (according to Norah Vincent)

*Men are less judgmental but also less tender among eachother.

*Male and female sexuality is radically different. Male’s is a bodily function, female’s is mental.

*Within the dating scene, the man’s role is much, MUCH, tougher than the woman’s.

*Also, women want manly men, not feminine ones

*Men suffering just as much as women are

E2: People are commenting on the fact that this post points out that men's lifes are as hard as women's but in fact men's are harder. I state Norah's opinions on this in this post, not my own.

Post Information
Title Feminist journalist decides to lives as a man for 18 months, discovers that men’s lives are just as hard as women’s
Upvotes 1263
Comments 167
Date 12 August 2015 01:37 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/35491
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/3gpyrt/feminist_journalist_decides_to_lives_as_a_man_for/
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[–][deleted] 389 points390 points  (77 children) | Copy

I've seen this posted here a few times. It's a great reminder and fantastic for helping get past the rage against feminism. Here's a woman who actually did live like a man and finds no privilege, only difficulty--and she thanks her lucky stars she's a woman. Also kudos that she was actually willing to let her experiences influence her conclusions and not the other way around.

The thing that bugs me about the typical SJW crap is that they claim men have no idea what it's like to live as a woman, but simultaneously (and unquestioningly) assume that they know and understand what it's like to live as a man when the fact is that they don't have the slightest idea.

Furthermore if society did somehow change and ever actually forced women to be treated in "true equality" with men, I'm quite certain that within a few months they would all be begging to be housewives.

[–]5 Endorsed ContributorStayinghereforreal135 points136 points  (62 children) | Copy

men have no idea what it's like to live as a woman

Actually, childhood provides some interesting clues to men as to how women go through life. Trouble for many men is they don't understand that upon reaching adulthood, they are now forbidden to enter that societal zone reserved for children and adult women. Instead, men are held strictly accountable for not only their own actions, but the actions of those around them. Don't be in the wrong place, young men, at the wrong time. Don't hang around the wrong sort.

[–][deleted] 73 points74 points  (55 children) | Copy

Agreed, little boys are often treated like women, but once you reach a certain age it's taken from you. I'd argue this is very similar to "the wall" and I've been thinking about researching this phenomena more and trying to draw parallels between the two. Do you think this would be a worthwhile post?

[–]Endorsed Contributorleftajar104 points105 points  (39 children) | Copy

Here's a fun bit of evidence.

When boys hurt themselves, they generally cry. This is an automatic response and would take great willpower to subvert.

However, somewhere between 12 and 14 years of age, most boys stop crying from physical pain. It's not like they choose to, either -- rather, the urge to cry simply stops. Most often, it's replaced with anger and frustration.

This seems to me like evolution is cutting off a "care for me!" response just in time for puberty. After all, a child crying elicits care. An adult male crying elicits disgust.

[–]Endorsed Contributorbogeyd634 points35 points  (4 children) | Copy

We were discussing that at work just the other day. How once we all reached our teen years the ability to cry from physical pain just stopped. We can cry from emotional pain still. Just something automatic about that not crying.

[–]1Snivellious27 points28 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is the fascinating thing.

Women who argue that there aren't 'innate' gender differences portray the lack of tears from men as a result of social pressure. It's a shitty argument, because men will cry publicly over emotional pain, and won't cry privately over physical pain. Even with no witnesses, they're more likely to react to physical pain with aggression than tears.

I've never heard a man make the same argument, because they've felt that lack of urge to cry.

[–]ZorbaTHut9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

I actually remember this moment - I was playing Frisbee with my dad. Managed to fuck up the catch pretty badly and the frisbee ran straight into my finger. Hurt like a bitch.

I told my dad I'd have to stop playing for a bit because my finger hurt pretty badly. He said he was proud of me for not crying, as I'd always done that before.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I've been in severe pain plenty of times in my adulthood that caused me to tear up, but it wasn't a release like you get with crying. I even have a difficult time crying from emotional pain. My last LTR that caused me to come here felt like it shattered my heart, but I didn't even cry. I felt more angry and frustrated with myself if anything.

[–]1Snivellious27 points28 points  (4 children) | Copy

This is a much more accurate framing than "boys are shamed into not crying".

Boys who cry are shamed, but it's because crying is evidence of youth and immaturity. That's where we get the pattern of young boys wanting to try, but "fighting back tears".

The lack of tears from men doesn't follow the same pattern. Men aren't expertly fighting back tears, they aren't feeling the urge to cry. Negative emotions in men tend to be felt in other ways.

Kids who try not to cry are affecting the behaviors of older males, like they do in many other domains. Speaking from my experiences, what I was feeling when I was sad at 10 and what I feel when sad today are totally different. It's not "social pressure" (a line that usually comes from the tabula rasa, "nothing is nature" crowd), it's a fundamental emotional change.

[–]Zebleblic4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I was kind of surprised when I dislocated my ankle which spiral fractured my fibula that I didn't even have a tear in my eye. It hurt, but not nearly as much as I thought it would. I just looked at it and said well shit. Snapped the ankle back in place and got my friend to drive my car to the hospital. It was more of an inconvenience than anything.

[–]iamcathyy2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

That's interesting. I'm a transgender girl in mid 20s and throughout my entire life, I've always had to fight so hard to stop my tears from flowing because I've been taught that it's shameful for a guy to cry.

The feelings of sadness or urge to cry has never changed for me. I still cry just as easily as I did 20 years ago. But I'm a woman now so at least it's more socially acceptable to do so.

[–]1Snivellious0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Hmm, this is really interesting. I don't mean to overstate my case - men/boys definitely feel and suppress the urge to cry sometimes. That said, I've found that the frequency of that urge has declined with age, and is less powerful than it used to be. Certainly "just as easily" doesn't reflect my experience, and I would hate the social pressure to not cry if it did.

I'm pretty ignorant on this topic, but I'm inclined to suspect that this reaction and identified gender are related. Going from the impression that gender identity is tied to hormone levels and brain structure (which is itself tied to developmental hormone levels), it wouldn't shock me to find that the frequency/nature of the urge to cry is tied to gender. I don't want to dive into any evo-psych and try to explain this, but it wouldn't be the biggest divide between genders.

I suppose the next step would be to look into substantially non-Western cultures and see what the standards on men crying are. I don't know of any 'crying-positive' ones, but there are more societies I don't know about than societies I do.

I should maybe go investigate that one, and whether this is a pattern other people have identified.

[–]YOLOGabaGaba13 points14 points  (3 children) | Copy

I remember as a 13ish year old boy getting hurt on the playground. I was shocked that I did not have the urge to cry that I was expecting. I got up angry.

[–]RP155 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

Is that around when you got the idea to tame Foofa's strange?

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen15 points16 points  (4 children) | Copy

All of this is true.

However my main contractor is a group of kindergartens, where I spend 25h/week and tbh my observations are, that little boys on average are actually much more whiny than little girls and that those who are weaker than the others get less sympathy from their nurses.

This goes so far that the nurses will even actually start to fret little boys who just have a bad day and start to cry over nullities.

[–]TyPerfect16 points17 points  (3 children) | Copy

I used to work with kids(2-12) and I think that the process of transitioning to being a man begins at school. Its when boys start to group up/form tribes. They are no longer shielded by their mother's presence. Its where people will first be indifferent/hostile to a crying boy. A young boy has no way to reconcile the treatment and coddling that he gets at home with the realities of living in a man's world and that's where the chronic criers come from. The urge to cry continues until testosterone reaches a high enough level for rage to take cryings place as an automatic reaction.

[–]RedPillMat8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy

I can agree with this. When I was 6 years old I fell off a slide on my head, and I remember telling myself "boys don't cry, do not cry", and it took tremendous effort not to cry (and my eyes still watered up). So it really is a physical reaction. From that day I never cried audibly (had teared up though).

[–]Pioneer582 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I remember thinking this when I was around 8 years old and at my grandfathers funeral. I remember looking around and thinking, I'm a boy, so I'm not going to cry.

[–]HellbillyDeluxe2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I agree with the assertion above that the response to physical pain in males is an innate gender difference that develops during adolescence. However, I believe the ability to withhold tears caused by emotional pain, especially severe emotional pain, is a skill. One that is very necessary for navigating social dynamics, and unfortunately difficult to master. It requires a high level of emotional control not to cry from the passing of a loved one during that final goodbye, especially by an eight year old with a limited understanding of the world. That is the type of control, that a being operated mostly by "feelz" can never truly comprehend. It is another example of the high level of expectations men face in society as compared to our female counterparts.

Edit: Grammar

[–]saltyleave 6 points6 points [recovered] | Copy

I don't know if this is relevant or not, but women can be taught not to cry as well. When my daughter was around three or so she cried frequently, until she hurt herself one day and I explained to her that pain is temporary. I told her that when she hurt herself to take a few deep breaths, remember that it's only going to hurt for a short while, and that she's going to be fine in the end. I don't know how much this contributes to the conversation, but I wanted to share. She's twelve now and injures herself regularly without even mentioning it to anyone.

[–]livelikealesbian1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I am an adult woman and I don't have the ability to cry from pain either. My dad always told me "rub some dirt in it. I've had worse than that it my eye." My dad had two girls and neither my sister or I cry from pain.

[–]Envar 5 points5 points [recovered] | Copy

Most often, it's replaced with anger and frustration.

My eyes don't water from pain - they water from intense anger. Come to think of it pain doesn't really trigger an emotional response like it used to. I remember feeling fear or terror when breaking my collar bone but now I feel pissed off or surprised or even sometimes depressed if the injury is going to prevent me from doing something.

The crying urge though comes irresistibly when I'm angry. People actually think it's weakness but I am in no way afraid. The last time I "cried" was right before I went to fight a guy who ran me off the road. I wasn't afraid of him (dude was maybe 140lbs and none of it was muscle) and my goal was to primarily subdue him since he ran me off the road then got out of the car.

The point I'm trying to drill in is the urge to 'cry' or have my eyes water is linked more to a physical response (Increased heart rate and adrenaline from rage) than it seems to be for a mental state. Anger is a different emotion than something like sadness and, for me at least, is experienced physically like that of a drug rather than internally like sadness.

[–]Nothing_Gazes_Back0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I find that repressing anger causes me to well up. Not properly cry, mind you. But when everything in my body says to tear something apart and standing up for myself but I can't do it, that causes a really huge response with me.

I got pulled over, insulted, man handled, and rough housed by a cop while he tore my car apart when I was 18 or so. I had tears running down my face, not because I wanted help or was sad but because of how fucking wrong it was. I was just furious and couldn't act on that emotion.

[–]disposable_pants1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

You might be on to something here, but I don't think the switch from crying to not crying is purely biological. Plenty of grown-ass men will cry like a baby if they suffer a serious injury (gunshot wound, broken leg, torn ACL, etc.).

[–]detachedbymarriage9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'm not sure this is from pain though? If you tear an ACL, chances are it happened while doing something you love.

Knowing you basically can't do it again for a long while is a very emotionally taxing.

[–]Diabolical_Nuke0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

When Charles Barkley blew out his knee he was asked what was running through his mind as he stared at it.

"I knew my career was over"

Nothing about the pain, all about losing the life and career he had known his entire adult life.

[–]turbovolvozzz7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think that's still emotional crying though. When you get seriously injured you're worried about the implications that it will have on your life or even if you're going to survive in the case of a very serious injury. It can be an emotional thing.

[–]mattizie1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don't know mate, can't say I've been in an extremely serious situation. But I did have a crash on my motorcycle recently (other bloke at fault). Thoughts were, in order:

  • Shit, wife is going to kill me
  • Shit, I hope everything is OK, I don't want to stop riding
  • Shit, it hurts a bit
  • Shit, hope the other guy is OK
  • Shit, hope my bike is OK

The last time I really cried was purely emotional.

[–]Nothing_Gazes_Back1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think that a lot of this has to do with the shock of actually being injured. I've been shitkicked pretty badly in my life and I remember being really scared when I was bleeding heavily as a child.

My last major injury was a few years ago when I was mountain biking and a blunt impact split open my knee to the bone. I had to bike through rural Australia to an urgent care center. The pain was considerable, but there wasn't even an option to cry. I didn't really think about it until now, but it was more of a "Well, shit. There goes my vacation" frustration.

[–]7yphoid1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

Am I correct in assuming that conversely, the female urge to cry never disappears during and after puberty, but is only somewhat suppressed?

[–]Endorsed Contributorleftajar7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy

I have no idea; I've only been male in this lifetime.

[–]7yphoid3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Hmm, alright. Let me know if anything changes about your situation, I'd like to know the other end of the spectrum. If not this life, there's always the next, right?

[–]Endorsed Contributorleftajar1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Indeed. If the Buddhists and Hindus are to be believed, you and I have already been women in numerous past lives.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I've seen grown women cry from pain/injury. My ex ate it the first time I took her Mt biking and cried like a child over a cut on her arm. I was surprised. I think it might have been the first time princess ever wiped out... But I can't think of anytime I've seen a man cry, except over a woman or not being able to see his children.

[–]livelikealesbian0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I can't speak for all women but I don't cry from pain or in front of others. My Dad was the rub some dirt in it kinda guy and my mom is a nurse(meaning suck it up I see much worse every day) and my sister and I are both very tough.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon22 points23 points  (0 children) | Copy

Do you think this would be a worthwhile post?

Yes. And here's some points about it to help with that:

Society sees children as children, basically without gender. "Men, women and children". Three groups with three roles and three sets of expectations and values them differently.

Soldier is synonymous with man. The media talks of casualties (if soldiers / men) or of "men, women and children" (if civilians). Children are protected and valued in all societies. Women too. Men are expected to be the creators, the doers, the fighters and those that die. Women are treated as walking wombs, the valuable creators of the next generation and anything that they do over and above the basic potential of being a walking womb is treated as amazing... stunning... wow! not only does she have a womb but she is a nice person too! Basically very low expectations and extra credit, as per children.

After puberty, males are treated as men and given responsibilities as such. Pros: can attract women. Cons: have to compete with males. (In evolutionary terms, males stay as children to avoid conflict with older males, until they are able to step up and compete.)

Children and women are absolved of responsibility. (Blameless and low responsibility in various ways.). As women go past menopause, they lose their youthful looks and the genetic benefit to sex with them dwindles. They lose some of their privilege at that point (males no longer have the "might lead to sex" bias towards them).

They still get to keep their victim mentality and sympathy, albeit with less access to resources. They are still allowed to speak for all women (without question of bias). They are still listened to, in a way that men never are. And they are still as psychologically and emotionally aware as they ever were.

In the case of the male child growing up.... responsibilities and criticism is basically piled on him from puberty onwards. He doesn't notice that it's not happening to the girls until he is in some sort of disagreement with them. At that point, the equality is thrown out of the window and genetic and cultural biases prevail. Men are distrusted. Women are valued. Men can't be believed, they have bad intentions. Women never lie. His lying word against her truth.... and the world descends upon him and his honest points are ignored while her lies are believed as if they are gospel. (I got this in only the mildest of ways, but I saw it repeatedly around me and none of the women nor weak minded white knights had the guts or brains to see it).

At this point he goes one of two ways.... he either spots the hypocrisy in the world (ironically I was able to do this because I was brought up with so much feminism that I believed in the concept of sexual equality at the time so the ill treatment of men was quite glaring). Or he concludes that women are simply more valuable than he is, and double down into beta mode - believing that everything men do is basically wrong and everything the wimmin do is basically right, and it is his job as a man to atone for everything any man did to a glorious unicorn ever. Sarcasm yes, but we all know men like this.

In terms of women hitting the wall (ie impending menopause).. there is similar withdrawal of some privileges. But there is not the same responsibility and expectation and pressure suddenly poured onto them.

[–]YOLOGabaGaba14 points15 points  (3 children) | Copy

I think it's even more difficult that most modern cultures do not have a male rite of passage. our cultures ,without warning or explanation, slowly push young adult males out of the group of women and children. the rite of passage provides an important transistion into manhood to where they leave one group and are clear memebers of a new group, with out this young men are lost.

[–]TyPerfect4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Male development programs are essential to getting your son to have this rite of passage type experience. I did boy scouts, got my Eagle rank and everything. By the time I was 14 I was taking a leadership role in the troop, in my family life, and a year later when I started having LTRs.

[–]RP150 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I agree. It used to be the military in the US, and still is in much of the world.

[–]Kaquin9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

Don't ask us if it's a worthwhile post. Ask yourself that.

[–]nomad-oz3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

This what happens in many primitive tribal cultures. Boys live with the women until a certain age when they go through an initiation ceremony. Thereafter they cannot return to live the women.

In our modern civilized world boys are not taken aside given the Red Pill and taught how to be men as a Rite of Passage. This would make a business opportunity.

Unlike girls that understand they become women at pubity, most boys just drift along never learning to be real men.

Yep it would make a good post.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

What would you be attempting to prove/demonstrate through these parallels?

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (3 children) | Copy

I think this would help men understand women's troubles in age, a lot more. It would give an example for why wall hitters seem so angry and frustrated. Didn't you get rebellious and frustrated when suddenly instead of getting a pat on the back just for trying; you were given instead a "do better wtf is this?" type of look?

If you can remember a time when suddenly instead of dicking around and having fun you were expected to grow up and be self sufficient.

Boys live without responsibility until a certain age.

Women live without responsibility until a certain age.(much older obviously)

What I would say is that if a woman lives a "proper"/optimum life, they can live without responsibility all the way to the grave.

Since women aren't choosing that optimum they are being forced into the burden of performance late in life. Think about that. Men are forced into the burden of performance early. So you're used to it to a point. Women don't hit this until they are completely settled into the way things are.

It's harder to adapt the older you get so to perhaps have a little pity on the foolish women you encounter. I'm sure there is more to this idea. I'll meditate on it for a while and see if anything useful in terms of sexual strategy comes up.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

Agree, but yet I never see the gratitude.

I never see "Wow, at 30 I am now in a similar position to men were at 15, but I've had 15 more years of support and opportunities to grow. All these responsibilities that I now face as an adult were thrust onto male children - I now appreciate their efforts and will do my best to make the world a better place for everyone". Hahaha of course not :)

Instead it's always whining about the partial withdrawal of privilege as if it was an entitlement.

[–]1Snivellious6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'll grant this, but I think that's partly a result of the fact that most people have never heard the idea framed that way. There's strong pressure to say that women behave with full responsibility at the same age as men, in which case the loss of 'privilege' is just "now my life is worse for reasons I can't control".

Think of the stereotypes of old, wise women (and old femme fatales, who derive their sexuality from knowledge and self-improvement rather than nature). These are women who understand their new role and develop into cunning, experienced adults. Think of Olenna Tyrell, if you watch Game of Thrones - the women who don't whine about losing what they used to have but see it as a unique chance to understand people and society.

Optimistically, clarifying this framing of "now you don't have intrinsic value, so find extrinsic value" might produce more witty, content post-wall women.

[–]1Snivellious1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

If there's no top-level post on this topic, I think it's well worth making one.

Most of us agree that children have some amount of 'intrinsic' value - they have potential, so they're inherently worthwhile. We appreciate them even when they aren't useful, and we don't hold them accountable for their actions.

"Adulthood", under this framework, is the stage where society gives up on your intrinsic value. You're asked to show external proof of value to be considered important.

For men, that's somewhere between 14 and 20. Stable, education-heavy societies give them some more time because there's more to learn to become useful. Worse, lower-infrastructure places start asking men for external value at about the age where they can lift a gun.

Women, generally, are valued 'intrinsically' until they hit the wall. For at least some segment of the population (a smaller one for less attractive women), they're worthwhile regardless of what they know, say, or do. That only stops when their sexual value disappears.

So yes, I think you should try to expand on this idea. Offering up a male equivalent is a great way to understand a female experience, and these feel like corresponding social transitions.

[–]VipKyle2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'd read the shit outta that

[–]Ibex3D19 points20 points  (4 children) | Copy

It's funny, you even see this here. People here get so upset about indoctrinating young boys but once they are like 18-20, anytime a woman hurts him, it's his fault and he should've known better. No sympathy.

[–]5 Endorsed ContributorStayinghereforreal11 points12 points  (3 children) | Copy

but once they are like 18-20, anytime a woman hurts him, it's his fault and he should've known better. No sympathy.

There is a difference between being sympathetic and being realistic. I may sympathize with a cancer patient's plight, but I am not going to tell him that the cancer is not real, or that he does not have to fight it with chemo.

When you reach your teens as a male, the rules change, and the rules apply to you now with some pretty serious force behind the new rules. Failure to appreciate those realities can lead to bad decisions, and then bad outcomes, much like failure to appreciate the reality of a diagnosis can lead to bad decisions, and bad outcomes.

If you want to complain about how it is unfair that the rules change, well, go ahead. The rules still change, though, and nothing going on here is likely going to change what has been true for thousands of years.

[–]Ibex3D13 points14 points  (2 children) | Copy

That's not what I was talking about. I'm not talking about the world. I'm talking about us here at TRP. So many people get pissed off that boys in school are being indoctrinated in feminist bullshit and yet, when it's grown boys who are only acting on that same feminist indoctrination, TRP men will say shit like "I have no sympathy for the BP pussies" or "He should've known better" or "It's his own fault that he got divorce raped because he got married" or shit like that. It's like, just because these men are older, they are not deserving of sympathy and they should've known better even though they were not only not taught the truth but were in fact told a lie their entire life. I'm not saying that we need to deny reality or not tell them that they need to fight. I'm just saying, considering the nature of the sub and the pasts of the people who come here, that I would expect a little more sympathy for these men than is given. But perhaps the RP man hates the BP man more than anyone else because he sees in the BP his former self and is ashamed.

[–]BooksofMagic1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

perhaps the RP man hates the BP man more than anyone else because he sees in the BP his former self and is ashamed

You hit the nail on the head here. This fact is true of people in general, and not just men/women.

[–]1Snivellious5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

I hadn't noticed this difference in framing. It gets to the real meaning of the phrase "women and children", which had always seemed like an odd grouping.

I supposed this is something that we lost with the decline of manhood rituals. For a long time we had formal transitions to delineate this transition, whether they were rituals to gain access to male spaces (e.g. hunting lodges) or departures from home to take on male roles (e.g. apprenticeships). College served some of this purpose, but that's eroded both with gender integration and the infantilization of students.

Today the move to "male spaces" is an unstated implication, and there's no clear moment when it happens.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon15 points16 points  (7 children) | Copy

It's a great reminder and fantastic for helping get past the rage against feminism

This makes me more mad about feminism, it proves how solipsistic and one sided it really is. Male troubles are handwaved aside so that women can get even more resources (support, sympathy, money, favouritism) than otherwise.

[–]windowkicker -4 points-4 points [recovered] | Copy

Only for guys of you are less than 3/4 along the smv scale. For the top 1/4 you can expect everyone to be discussing your motives and your concerns. Tall people get a lot of stuff taken care of for them. It's the halo effect.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'm tall.

People come up to me in the street and offer me lunch. I get job offers without having to show my CV. Women beg to suck my cock. I don't have to work for everything. I've got a trust fund because my parents heard I was going to be tall before I was born. Seriously though: don't be fucking ridiculous ...tall people get a lot of stuff taken care of for them my fucking ass, I've worked hard for everything I have, a fuck tonne of people have used me along the way, and most things I have I've gotten kicked in the teeth for it a few times into the bargain. Noone has given me shit since I left college, but I've given ten times more of my time to others than most other people do - and most don't even say thankyou.

The halo effect is real but don't pretend that this means I get a lot of stuff taken care of for me.

[–]cariboo_j5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

TRP make over edition - wear heeled cowboy boots and spike your hair! Those extra few inches might be all it takes to push you into that coveted top 20%!

"Adds inches to your SMV!"

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

SMV works in weird ways. I'm tall, not bad looking, played sports in college, and fly airplanes recreationally. My SMV however is very low. I have never been afforded the same sexual/ dating opportunities as my peers. SMV works in strange ways, and women work in strange ways.

[–]Senior Contributorcocaine_face1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

No, they do not, and no, it really doesn't.

While any individual woman might have a particular interest or preference, in the aggregate, women converge on similar principles of attraction - height, muscularity, ability to communicate with them effectively (PowerTalk and being able to read between the lines, and communicate that way too), wealth/skills, pre-selection, confidence/cockiness, congruence and status.

When you say you have never been afforded the same opportunities as your peers... why have you not made opportunities for yourself? If you're waiting for women to make a move, you're doing it wrong.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

Perhaps, but the point I was making is that opportunities don't make themselves. No one just has women come up to them and do everything for them, and no one gets the world on a platter. To think otherwise is fantasy. I'm not a good socializer, hence why I am not as high SMV. Simply because no one knows what I do in my free time, ie: sports, flying, shooting, hiking, etc. and I don't go out of the way to seek female validation. I do these things because they make me fulfilled and happy, not because of how they affect other people. I've suffered SMV wise because of the desire to keep my motivations for these activities intrinsic.

Edit: And yes, I did not do a great job making those points initially, but what I was saying is that tall people, or athletic people, or whatever don't necessarily have it easier than any other man.

[–]Senior Contributorcocaine_face0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Except that they objectively do, all things being equal. Your lack of social ability is hampering you, but compared to an ugly guy with bad social graces, you'll do better.

And I absolutely agree with you - opportunities will not usually just fly into your hand.

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

It is a great reminder.

Perhaps a section in the sidebar for recurring submissions is warranted.

[–]OneInAZillion2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

but simultaneously (and unquestioningly) assume that they know and understand what it's like to live as a man when the fact is that they don't have the slightest idea.

In their minds, living as a man is "the same as living as a woman, except women have it harder and have go through SO MUCH MORE :(. So you take away the difficulties women go through ever so courageously on a day to day basis and VOILA! You are now experiencing the simple worry-free life of a man!"

[–]Temptationn1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

you know when you're a little kid and everyone lets you get away with anything, or gives you anything you want just because you're a kid? that's what it's like for women until about age 38

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

they would all be begging to be housewives.

Common women do want to be housewives. Our economy though demands that both women and men work now (unless you're well off). There are uncommon cases of women who do want to work and are actually really good at what they do, however most of the time it's the ones who want their indie panda dance but expect a man to design their job to be easier and suit their feminine imperative.

[–]pilledwillingly0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

We will live in a true equality when I see an even gender split of people concreting and roof tiling.

[–]PillersOfTheEarth 67 points67 points [recovered] | Copy

Norah Vincent's book "Self-Made Man" should be required reading in high school and/or university, particularly as part of gender studies courses. But like anything else that doesn't show women in the most positive light, it won't ever be.

[–]through_a_ways17 points18 points  (1 child) | Copy

I remember a feminist study that sought to find whether or not women faced harsher punishments for their crimes.

What they in fact found out was that women face much lighter sentences for their crimes, and are much less likely to be convicted of crimes in the first place, even for crimes that are equal across genders (such as smoking weed)

The gender bias in the justice system far outweighs the racial bias. White men get arrested more than black women.

You can bet that if this trend had even an inkling of being disadvantageous for women, feminists would be harping about it right now. However, they found such a clear, unarguable opposite of what they expected to find, that they can't twist it to their benefit in any way. Thus, they sweep it under the rug.

[–]BannedBandit2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

But feminism is about equality! I am expecting feminists to pipe up about the fact that 93% of workplace fatalities, 60% of victims of violent crime, and 80% of suicides are men ANY day now.

After that they will probably have women signing up for the draft.

[–]Juggernaut78140 points141 points  (19 children) | Copy

I have a lesbian friend who had gotten a pixie haircut, but with a hat on she looked a lot like a guy. She has/had a short fuse when she drank and used to cuss guys out all the time. One night she told this big guy "I'll take your girl, bitch!" I don't think he realized she was a girl because he beat the fuckin brakes off her. The next day she told me that she never had to watch what she said to people before, and that she knew it was because he thought she was s guy. It really opened her eyes as to how men must talk to eachother and watch what they say.

[–]McLarenX54 points55 points  (17 children) | Copy

I wish common courtesy and a sense of respect was enough to get people to talk decently to each other. Not to say the dudes actions were correct, but it's pretty pathetic of her to have to learn politeness by way of physical retaliation.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock64 points65 points  (16 children) | Copy

Women dont understand violence, they're constantly coddled and protected by society. Fear is a form of respect. Men have been hit before, or played a physical sport like football with men of varying sizes and quantities (ie double team tackled). They realize real quick that if they talk shit, something is gonna go down, and it will probably hurt, especially if he's bigger than you or has friends with him.

Women also never experience the real strength of a man. They might feel a shove or vulgar language at worst. So they walk around thinking it wont be that bad. They're ignorant. They're children.

[–][deleted] 22 points22 points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–]RP158 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy

I think voter registration should be paired with selective service registration.

[–]Envar 2 points2 points [recovered] | Copy

I think voter registration should be paired with selective service registration.

It is for men - at least it was when I went to the DMV.

[–]RP152 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

My point is that people shouldn't be voting and influencing the direction of this country unless they are willing to pick up a rifle and experience the consequences.

[–]Juggernaut780 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Woah now! Easy there killer! I've known quite a few females in the military that hold their own in a fight and grew up tough as nails. You can't really shotgun blast all females with "not knowing violence". Sure, for the most part they don't get it, but some do. I've met some males that weren't cut out for the military.

[–]Philhelm4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

The smell of their bloody snatches can give away their unit's position. To the curb with them, I say.

[–]redparadigm-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Fact: in the early sixties, the Soviets actually trained German Shepherd dogs just for that task.

Fact: I like to bullshit.

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

Curious thing about this is just how much women underestimate male strength. I've had women fully 50 lbs lighter than me simply assume they could wrestle their way free from me, if they really tried. Pinning their entire bodies down, with no way to free themselves often terrifies them as the realization that they're powerless sets in.

[–]newls1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Pinning their entire bodies down, with no way to free themselves often terrifies them as the realization that they're powerless sets in.

It's also why rape is so humiliating and degrading for a woman. She lives every day receiving compliments and validation, she feels strong and independent in her job with a nice title.

Society, all of the media, everyone pats her on the head at every turn, and there's a swarm of betas at the ready whenever she's upset, and on online dating sites a swarm of Chads ready to give her their rock-hard approval whenever she wants it.

When a big man forcefully rapes her, she is abruptly brought to terms with her relative physical weakness, and all of the above paragraphs is rendered meaningless and irrelevant. She is forcefully reminded that ultimately her base physical form is powerless.

[–]bearslikeham 7 points7 points [recovered] | Copy

Women also never experience the real strength of a man

It's all fun and games until the man hits back.

[–]BannedBandit5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

Note that the appropriate time for bystanders to step in is not when the man is attacked repeatedly, but when he defends himself.

Of course this double standard exists for a reason, and I will even agree that women should generally not be hit by men. They're 125lb of womanchild. But then when it comes time to wonder why the police/military/government isn't 50% women, don't go pointing fingers at the patriarchy.

[–]Endorsed ContributorNiftyDolphin0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Note that the appropriate time for bystanders to step in is not when the man is attacked repeatedly, but when he defends himself.

Note that as soon as he defended himself she came to her senses and got as far away from him as she could.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (2 children) | Copy

Women also never experience the real strength of a man. They might feel a shove or vulgar language at worst. So they walk around thinking it wont be that bad. They're ignorant. They're children.

Think what you will, but I've definitely heard of women that have been beaten to the point of being hospitalized and near death.

There are women who serve in the military (pretty sure some of them are in actual combat roles) as well

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Women beaten to the point of hospitalization is a small minority, and you know that.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

I actually never said I didn't. Do generalizations not apply to the minority? It was my impression that they applied to everyone. Also, have women that have seen heavy combat not experienced the full strength of men?

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Heh. That's just a glance at life in someone else's shoes.

[–]Endorsed ContributorRunawayGrain56 points57 points  (1 child) | Copy

Could be summed up as "I actually took the time to talk to a man, and now I actually perceive them as people."

[–]1sardinemanR46 points47 points  (3 children) | Copy

This is pretty old. From what I remember, before the editing took place, back when this happened she actually had a nervous breakdown afterwards and talked about how bitchy and cold women were. She actually said men had it much worse and she couldn't believe how awful women were.

This newer version is a lot more PC. Although it doesn't have the usual outright "women are just much better than men in every way" message that is pounded in our gynocentric society, it is still a far ways removed from the original that I remember reading.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock17 points18 points  (1 child) | Copy

This newer version is a lot more PC.

Society is now becoming one big pussy with the intentional manufacture of betas and manginas by the state (department of education).

[–]fuckbitchesnhos201539 points40 points  (1 child) | Copy

This is pretty interesting on the point of sexuality, that some of the women didn't even care that she was a woman. Women ARE NOT attracted by who you are, to the point where gender can be unimportant, but they are 100% attracted to how you make them feel.

[–]Onirou2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Astounding insight, man. Maybe some men here who are insecure about their looks: that's doesn't matter. Or is a non-deterministic factor.

[–]CyricYourGod39 points40 points  (6 children) | Copy

Men are suffering. They have different problems than women have but they do not have it better. They need our sympathy, they need our love and they need each other more than anything else. They need to be together.

That's the estrogen talking and shows she still has a lot to learn about how men "tick". Women always feel this overwhelming sympathy for men like our lives are tragedies because we don't cry on each other's shoulders every day.

The thing is, not only do I not feel compelled to spill emotion, I actually feel satisfaction achieving something great with my fellow man rather than wallowing in the struggles. Nothing is more positive than working in a male workplace with similar men struggling to achieve the same, mutual goals as you.

The best way to show how men thrive is at a startup where everyone knows their place and everyone shares the dream.

[–]TyPerfect15 points16 points  (2 children) | Copy

I do piece work in a local machine shop. All the employees are men. The way the dynamic changes when the owner's wife walks in is absolutely a negative one. They all get quieter, they are more polite, and she distracts a few of them from their work(her goal, I know). The shop is worse off when she is around, without her the men just get shit done in the most efficient way possible.

[–]DeathDealer814 points15 points  (1 child) | Copy

Also work in a shop. My boss hates it when his wife comes in because work slows down and the mood of comradery is almost completely absent. Like a switch was flipped and everyone is all of a sudden on gaurd.

[–]ether_reddit1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I actually feel satisfaction achieving something great with my fellow man rather than wallowing in the struggles.

YES, sharing successes is far more important than sharing tragedies. I can mope about my trials and troubles in life on my own, over a beer; there's nothing to be gained by having a pity party about it with my friends (or even relaying it to a therapist).

[–]O_Son0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Women always feel this overwhelming sympathy for men like our lives are tragedies because we don't cry on each other's shoulders every day.

Maybe it's just the way you worded this, but that hasn't been my experience as a person or while taking psychology and sociology courses, etc. Excluding tragedies/accidents or whatnot, I can't think of a single time where I've seen overwhelming sympathy from a woman directed toward men. I think that's why the author stated the quote below, because women are generally unsympathetic to men.

They need our sympathy, they need our love and they need each other more than anything else.

Perhaps if someone is in the military, or something like that, then women show them sympathy for how hard their life must be, but that's the only thing I can think of and I've never experienced it, it's just a hypothetical.

[–]1Snivellious18 points19 points  (0 children) | Copy

First, huge credit to Norah Vincent for actually investigating her beliefs. That's the difference between a journalist and a whiner.

Second, the difference between acceptance and emotional connection is a fascinating one. Men accept each other and "live and let live" in the face of anything that isn't abhorrent. But, they don't reveal emotions to anyone but their family or closest friends. Women share emotions and console each other constantly, but later wield those revelations as weapons.

Finally, I'm actually impressed that she understood what she was seeing with sexuality. The thing driving dead bedrooms isn't a difference in sex drives - that's something that could be talked through, overcome, or medicated away. It's an intractable conflict because the two sides fundamentally disagree on what sex is. Men treat it as a physical necessity, and can't accept a no-sex outcome, and women disbelieve that claim, thinking it's an exaggeration or tool to win the argument.

[–]Oilfield___Trash40 points41 points  (11 children) | Copy

Next she should try working in a male dominated industry like the oilfield.

[–]wanderer77954 points55 points  (8 children) | Copy

Please don't encourage them. I used to work offshore and the fact that there were hardly any women around was one of the few things I liked about it.

[–]GrundleGrumbler45 points46 points  (7 children) | Copy

While I don't mind having to work with women in occasion, it's refreshing to work around just men. There no stupid games to play, no filter required when you speak. It's just a bunch of dudes working together to get a job done.

[–]BooksofMagic39 points40 points  (0 children) | Copy

Fucking right. And yet a workplace consisting of only women can barely function.

My own wife spilled some redpill truth about this one day. She's a manager at a retail chain and the checkout area consisted of only women. To combat the cattiness and general poor way these 'women' all treated each other, she begged the store manager to hire a couple guys to 'cut the estrogen level down a peg'. This move ended up being a resounding success - all the bitchiness stopped in it;s tracks and the department was able to function again without these women all trying to stab each other in the back.

[–]2Archterus18 points19 points  (0 children) | Copy

Agree entirely. My wife often comments that she does not understand/feel comfortable with the dynamic between my adult sons and myself. the forthright, no nonsense, non emotive use of language. Yet we understand each other perfectly.

[–]cariboo_j9 points10 points  (4 children) | Copy

I work in a male dominated field. We work outside in the woods, on roads, sometimes in the oilfield.

One time a female was working with us. She was 35, outdoorsy, didn't expect any special treatment as far as I could tell. There was like a 1 metre deep ditch. She was about to step over it, 3 guys automatically raised their heads in unison and were like "Watch it! Be careful! Here let me help you."

All that over a ditch that could easily be stepped over. White knighting, protecting women and giving them special treatment is an instinct so deeply ingrained most guys don't even realize they're doing it.

I haven't seen any quantified sources about whether or not mixed gender work places are bad for productivity, but I wouldn't be surprised if all male work places were the most efficient.

A guy wouldn't drop everything he as doing, rush over and be like "Be careful! Don't hurt yourself! Are you ok?" If he saw another man doing some moderately risky task. As it should be. But I've seen guys do shit like this so many times when women are around. It's absurd.

[–]Envar 3 points3 points [recovered] | Copy

I haven't seen any quantified sources about whether or not mixed gender work places are bad for productivity, but I wouldn't be surprised if all male work places were the most efficient.

All I can give you is internal statistics (not for the company I work for currently) that were / are "unofficial.

Our turnover rate went from 1 percent per year (1 person as we had roughly 100 people, give or take) with 50 of those employees being call center employees to 35% within a few months of hiring the first female in the tech / engineer area. We had a 1% turn over for 5 years and it became a huge deal when the next year we reported 35% year over year turn over after 6 months with no major management changes.

A few people figured out why but no one said it out loud. She was an ok engineer. Average for the company. Nothing really spectacular about her personality or looks or anything. Literally just run of the mill in basically every way. Her team reacted to her in such a way that when something went wrong they used to just accept blame and move on. Now they fervently fought any blame - even when it was clear it wasn't their fault. That simple change (Which I presume now is defending 'their' female) fucked up the dynamic of the entire floor. Teams went from friendly, supportive and competitive to hostile, competitive to the point of fault and actively aggressive toward one another.

When she left the turnover rate dropped (or so I'm told by a friend) to about 15~20% but it never really recovered fully.

For the record our industry standard turnover rate was 26% - 1% is almost unreal. Mind you not everyone there was part of the call center. When you average out the other teams IS turnover rate into the 50ish CC employees their current rate is basically spot on.

[–]cariboo_j1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Ha yeah. One time I was working on a project that involved lugging rebar out into the woods and setting it up at predetermined spots in teams of two. The budget was to get to 15 locations per day. My team finished 11, and the supervisor was like "hmm you guys gotta pick up the pace". The other team got to 4 locations. This was excused because they had a 120lb girl on the team. "She's small she can't carry as much as you guys, obviously."

Everyone seemed to think this was the proper response. My team was 2.5x more productive but we were the ones being scolded. The industry is so desperate for "diversity" they're willing to make all sorts of concessions to have women working in the field. I wasn't too upset but I was surprised by the blatant double standard.

I was more disappointed with the men for accepting lower performance from someone merely because they had a vagina.

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is exactly my experience. Otherwise competent men waste time and energy pedestalizing women in the workplace. Absolutely kills productivity. It's even worse in the tech industry, where most of the guys are betas that normally don't interact with women. They'll gladly burden themselves with extra workload to help a damsel in distress. Pathetic.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I've read the IDF ran into that as a real problem with women in combat roles. Dunno if anyone has bothered to pin it down.

[–]94redstealth16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy

They have different problems than women have but they do not have it better. They need our sympathy, they need our love and they need each other more than anything else. They need to be together.

I think this is the most important thing she said. The biggest problems I see is men aren't being men with other men ( wow that sounds weird). But seriously, the happiest and most successful men I know do manly things with other men.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (7 children) | Copy

Is there a gender-reversed experiment of this? I'm curious about the outcome. We can hypothesize the results but an actual data gathering would set it in stone like she did.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (6 children) | Copy

Wondered about this as well. If I will find one, I will make another thread.

[–]TyPerfect9 points10 points  (4 children) | Copy

I have a friend who went male to female a couple years back. I'll ask a few questions.

Edit; Do you guys have a list of questions you would like me to ask?

[–]ether_reddit6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Would they be willing to do an AMA?

[–]pewpfeast4203 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

Its a little different with transsexuals, though. In his transition from male to female he's had to undergo hormone therapy which will fuck with the way he thinks, perceives the world, etc.

Transsexuals also tend to have quite a lot of issues - hell, gender reassignment is the current best treatment for disassociative identity disorder. Not to mention likely abuse suffered through harassment, self loathing, etc. most transsexuals will go through.

The beauty of this case in particular is that she was able to experience what being a man is like while also perceiving it through a female point of view. I'd really be interested in seeing someone do this same thing but with the genders reverses, though.

[–]TyPerfect4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

This one in particular is surprisingly down to earth. Asian, grew up in Cali, so there is a fair bit of racism experienced. Became a marine and served in combat zones, didn't see much actual enemy fire, but mortar fire and IEDs aren't exactly uncommon. Left the corps to do this and pursue game design. Married a woman last spring. Doesn't shove it in people's faces, believes bakeries should be aloud to bake and serve who they want, relatively pro-gun, Takes personal responsibility for screw-ups.

At this point the only thing that seems to be a dead giveaway is the way she talks. Spend any time around service members, especially marines, and you start to pick up on quirks in language. She still talks like a marine. And female marines don't come by the foulness quite as easily.

Also we had an injury in our group and she actually beat me to the magazine rack to make a hasty ankle splint.

[–]Ninja_Wizard_690 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

What about transexuals that haven't gone through hormone therapy yet?

[–]theDarkAngle11 points12 points  (3 children) | Copy

Men have had the tears and emotional expression sort of pounded out of them from an early age. By the time they are men they don’t even have the vocabulary anymore or the emotional awareness to really say what they are feeling.

This is where its still feminist bullshit. The solution to men's problems is always to be more like women.

I dont think I "lack the emotional awareness or vocabulary" to say what I'm feeling. I just know that it won't do any good.

The problem isn't that men need to express their feelings more. Its that most paths to a positive masculine frame have been made more difficult, lined with booby traps, or eliminated altogether.

I am not some tradcon hack who thinks "restore traditional marriage, put women back in the kitchen, that'll fix things". That won't work and it wasn't so great for men either.

What I think is that maybe women should learn to be more like men. A society in which women can be held accountable for their actions, in which they stop the endless complaint campaigns against utter nonsense like manspreading and made up crap like rape culture and the pay-gap, and in which they don't require special treatment in all phases of life... that would be ideal.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

lack the emotional awareness or vocabulary

Yep, there's a difference between being aware of an emotion, and expressing it. You express it if either you're completely out of control of yourself, it needs to be fixed, or you just DGAF for a bit.

What I think is that maybe women should learn to be more like men. A society in which women can be held accountable for their actions, in which they stop the endless complaint campaigns against utter nonsense like manspreading and made up crap like rape culture and the pay-gap, and in which they don't require special treatment in all phases of life... that would be ideal.

Also, flying pink unicorns. Since we're talking about the infinitely unlikely.

[–]theDarkAngle1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yeah well, we can dream, yeah?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

They say it's important for our emotional well-being. Or something.

Maybe we should try that again some time?

[–]1thiasus11 points12 points  (1 child) | Copy

There is a tremendous potential for tenderness among men and I am not sure if that is always realized and it is terribly sad.

Yeah, that's surely true: women routinely give up on female friendship because of the cattiness and mind games, but we are the ones with an unrealized potential for tenderness.

Not even 18 months undercover as a man are enough to nudge the hamster significantly off course. There's no saving the modern woman: bombarded by a culture that paints her as a special sensitive snowflake and men as brutish emotionally stunted idiots, no amount of evidence to the contrary can re-program her.

[–]1sardinemanR18 points19 points  (0 children) | Copy

If men acted the way women do, they would be diagnosed as Autistic. I'm not entirely certain why society pretends the modern woman's behavior isn't a major issue.

This is a major reason most women hit the wall now alone. 70% of 18-34 year old men are unmarried now, and that number is probably going to get worse and also carry over to older ages. This is the result of feminism.

As much as these women whine from 35+ on that they have great careers and men should marry them, for the most part even Beta Bob is refusing nowadays. Every once in awhile society pretends it cares, before going back to its infatuation of 16-34 year old women. And really it's 16-25.

[–]Solitary_Wolf 60 points60 points [recovered] | Copy

this has been reviewed before but anyway...

just as hard? more like 10 times as hard. this woman had to be admitted into therapy and rehab.

no external validation for over a year = brain meltdown. so much for being a strong independent woman who don't need no man! (I don't care if she claims to be a lesbian) anyone that disagrees with gold star shitlord Dick Masterson should watch this documentary.

[–]jdoe5 44 points44 points [recovered] | Copy

To be fair I think just the gender switch itself was enough to mess with her head. If I lived that long as a woman I would probably be admitted too.

[–]1feminazis_stalk_me14 points15 points  (4 children) | Copy

"Doc, I think I lost a tampon in there!"

"But you don't HAVE a vagina! You're a MAN!"

"Oh... yea."

[–]through_a_ways7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

"But you don't HAVE a vagina! You're a MAN!"

Stop oppressing me you cisgendered fuhrer of feces

[–]Pioneer58-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

"So wait.... were did you put the tampon then?"

[–]madnessinspades11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

It wasn't even a straight year, she would still take off the "man stuff" every so often when she wasn't in public (the video alludes to this). Not to mention that the entire time she knew that she could always go back to being a woman. I think one of the hardest things we as males need to grapple with is the fact that it will never get easier, we never get a safety net. Even when we become successful it's never easy mode, you have to continue busting your ass and continue to be better then you were the day before or else you can lose it all.

She dipped her toes in the water (far deeper then most though to be fair) and it still sent her into a clinic, and I think that speaks volumes.

[–]pinstrap-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

I definitely don't disagree with dick masterson on a lot of things but his website is fucking dumb. And while his Dr. Phil appearance was hilarious he still went about things the completely wrong way.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Average women lack empathy. It takes a woman to literally walk in a mans shoes to even comprehend the "problems" men have. That's why you see all these man-haters. They have no empathy and they only see their own problems, of which they share with other man-hating women. This makes them believe that all women have all these shared mental issues (and perceived social issues such as things that don't even exist like a wage gap), and men have none. "So if men have no problems and women do, men must be creating the problems to keep womyn down!"

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

It's extremely hard to compare "which is harder, man or women" because our lives are different and our personalities are different.

I'd be fine as a woman because I get shit done and make my own choices in life. Most women in my position would hate having to fight on the merit of their logic rather than emotion. If I don't speak truth, my company goes bust and crying about it isn't going to change that.

But there are a few points of comparison:

Rate of admission to prison: much higher for men.

Rate of actual suicide: much higher for men (ignore "suicide attempts" if you do your own research, these pleas for help are a female thing). Especially young men. This is a huge indication of the scale of the problem, and is the best counterpoint to "wimmin are suffering because hamster hamster hamster patriarchy".

Are men or women happier? I'm pretty sure it's women, because feminists aren't crowing on about it.

Some quick research: - Women: http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/men-or-women-happier.htm

(Men won 7 out of 12 categories, so it depends how you pick the categories.)

Oh this has some hilarious hamstering.... I have to quote this for your enjoyment gentlemen:

As I read ... my jaw dropped. ... the study ... show that  married women with "traditional values" and breadwinning  husbands were happier than married women with feminist  values. .... I could hardly wrap my increasingly unhappy feminist mind around what I read.  

She doesn't like it, so it must not be true! Feminism is truth, therefore feminism is true. Classic last paragraph too, but I'll leave that as a treat for those who click through.

In summary: men have it way fucking harder, and if we are happier then it is of our own making.

[–]through_a_ways2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's extremely hard to compare "which is harder, man or women" because our lives are different and our personalities are different.

A man in a woman's body will have a much, much, much easier life than a woman in a man's body.

Women have it easier because people like them, men have it easier because they have stronger personalities.

[–]Harry_Teak4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Feminists today are basically ren fair enthusiasts or Civil War re-enactors. The fight they're supposedly fighting has been over for a long time and it was fought by earlier generations of much better women than they can imagine. The biggest difference is that the Civil War buffs know that they're pretending and rarely think that they really need to re-take Atlanta.

Feminist rhetoric in 21st century America is as relevant and needed as a buggy whip or a rotary phone.

[–]my_redpill_account17 points18 points  (1 child) | Copy

Lessons learned:

Common knowledge.

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (0 children) | Copy

If all the lesson learned points actually were common knowledge in society, then we wouldn't need TRP.

Yes, the points have been made on TRP before, but not everyone's a veteran. I thought it was a helpful post.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

The one advantage us men have over women is proper comradery, women never really experience this unless they hang around a group of men.

[–]ThePermanentGuest2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

First time I've seen this.

It's definitely eye-opening. Not in the sense that I'm learning about the burdens of men, but that many women do not understand, or simply do not make an effort to. Male privilege is a go-to term today, but what many don't realize is that each gender has their own lopsided privileges in our current society. It's just the way it is.

There's really no excuse for a lack of understanding. As the video shows, Norah had the emotional intelligence to understand what was really going on with the men around her, and also the introspection to realize her feelings.

Likewise, I always encourage men to befriend women and see them as a group in action (no dressing up required). I've been blown away by simply being with a group of girls getting ready to go out. You get an insight into their psyche that you wouldn't understand without seeing it for yourself.

[–]nomorelulu0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

What male privilege really exists anymore? Women are treated better in pretty much every social setting. The 77 cent myth has been debunked many times. I don't see any privileges (that come without burden/responsibility) that society bestows solely upon men.

[–]chwed22 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Womens sexuality is totally mental.

[–]through_a_ways2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Imagine never experiencing hunger, and always being on the brink of satiety.

Would you ever want to eat a sloppy burger? Probably not.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

It is a drive. Because we do not have testosterone in our system, we do not understand how hard it is.

I know I'm being nit-picky here, but women actually do have testosterone in their biological makeup. Men produce about 6-8mg daily of testosterone while women produce 0.5mg.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

We just sit there and with one word, “No”, we crush someone.

Don't big yourself up there love... you're only crushing the "she was my one true hope of happiness" beta men. To successful men you just saved them a lot of time.

[–]getRedPill11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

discovers that men’s lives are just as hard as women’s

Just as hard? just as hard? Bitch just the fact you compare and make as equal offends me.

Solipsist narcisist you are entitled to everything you want in society , the heavy burden of responsibility has been lifted off of your poor weak shoulders and prone to break back, no link action-consecuence in your life, one day in your life will arrive (if it hasn't yet) a slave that will do everything for you and pay for everything (which you shall call with a silly name as bf or hubby). No, your's way easiet in comparison.

[–]Nicholas_1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Enjoyed reading that, great points.

Hopefully it shows woman that being a "superior" man isn't all it's cracked up to be.

[–]SilentForTooLong1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

She even managed to get some dates (30!) dressed as Ned. On the question if she had ever fun during those dates, she answers she rarely had any fun. Instead, she felt the pressure to prove herself. She was shocked that women had no interest in soft men. Her prejudice was that the ideal man is a woman in a man’s body. She found out women want manly men. Funny thing is that after she revealed her true identity during the date, some women still wanted to pursue the relationship because “they connected”.

This doesn't make any sense. So on the one hand, she was unsuccessful for being soft...but at the same time she was so successful that even when she revealed that she was a woman, the women she went out with liked her so much that they didn't care?... That makes it sound like women do, in fact, want a woman in a man's body. So what is going on here?

[–]Senior Contributorcocaine_face0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Maybe she switched up her strategy.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I wish more women could do this sort of experiment. They seem to forget that most men have to work hard just to entertain a women long enough to get at it with them.

Men even have to go to the extent of throwing men under the bus to impress a women. Seriously any women who says differently is crazy

[–]mrmeyhemn1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Feminist journalist decides to lives as a man for 18 months, discovers that men have harder lives and was happy to return to the lavish/lush/easy life of a woman.


[–]Manmore3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yeah it's been posted before. To me the most interesting thing is how she gets so differently treated as a man. Women will never get this though, unless they do this experiment themselves.

[–]Redasshole-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

As hard as a woman's live?

Are you kidding? Being a man is much harder.

[–]Indigo_Monkey31 points32 points  (1 child) | Copy

Come on now, this isn't the oppression olympics.

[–]sanglupus0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

How did she avoid menstruating for 18 months?

[–]PanzerBatallion7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Sooo....no experience with women then eh?

Both certain varieties of the pill and the IUD can eliminate or reduce periods to the point of non issue.

[–]Knehmo0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Interesting find. Thanks OP.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

MMW she's going to be ostracized by the SJW herd for breaking from the narrative.

[–]maitreyan10 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I think it's kind of disconcerting that she thinks men only have sex due to biological instincts(what about sexual fantasies?) and have an inability to understand their romantic emotions(like what they want/why they are hurt)

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I love that when this is posted on /r videos the only take away is that men and women have problems LOL the hamsters

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

HARDER. Men do the dying, women do the lying.

[–]GarrusShotFirst0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Duh. But I love being a man, it's so fucking awesome. Being big and strong and smart and rational. And just being... A bad ass man. When I walk into 90 percent of rooms, gyms, stores, whatever I know I can whoop 90 percent of the ass in that place. Cause I'm a man and not a beta bitch or pussy. I love it.

Thank God I'm not a small, weak and feeble woman who is guided by her emotions and hamster. Fuck that would suck.

And they bleed.... Once a month they bleed out of their sexual organ.... God damn, that would suck.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Fucking bowling? so godamn stupid. If you want to infiltrate men play pool or golf.

[–]WerewolfofWS-3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This dyke video was posted before.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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