If women are able to sleep with attractive, valuable men, why would they choose to sleep with lesser men?

mindsanitizer · 2020-03-16T13:57:04+00:00

If deadbedrooms weren't a thing then this arrangement would be kinda OK. A LOT of guys had the game plan of work hard, get a good job, get a wife at 30 and happily ever after. Realizing how many marriages are sexless+how many end in divorce is the key thing that makes the arrangement not sustainable.

taapy234 · 2020-03-16T14:20:16+00:00

According to TRP perspective, attraction is not a choice.

You definitely should NOT sleep with men you consider as "lesser men".

But remember, if you think of these men as "lesser men" then you also shouldn't try to rope these lesser men after you hit 30+ years and still remain single. You best hope is to hopefully convince that man who you have sex with to be your boyfriend/husband.

Don't fuck lesser men. And also don't try to ask for their hand in marriage from lesser men.

But, unfortunately most women don't agree with that last sentence.

Which is one of the biggest issues that men are walking up to in recent years.

Is it fair that you treat men like shit, call them "lesser men" but feel entitled to commitment from the very men you hated before?

TheJim66 · 2020-03-16T13:33:17+00:00

Because they don't go for these attractive guys just for sex ,they go for these guys hoping they'll get some commitment out of them and use the sex to get it.They fail because they are shooting out of their league.

They go for the safe guy only when they want something serious RIGHT NOW .They aren't attracted to him because if they did he wouldn't be the last resort,he would be the first choice.

Anyway even if it was just for the sex(its not) it would be fine .Just don't expect men to be okay with marrying them after they are done fucking the football team.

solaybrane · 2020-03-16T14:02:58+00:00

Because they want sex to a much lesser extent than men. Instead what they want is commitment. And that's super-difficult to get from relatively higher-value men, and has gotten even harder with liberalizing sexual norms. Double edged sword!

HOLYREGIME · 2020-03-16T13:49:02+00:00

Why would they choose a guy they aren’t attracted too over a guy who they are.

Women are attracted to the average guy enough to start a relationship but not enough to have casual sex. I don’t think this makes sense. A relationship includes sex, further commitment, meeting friends and family. Wouldn’t the bar be raised? Instead it’s lowered. Casual sex requires the guy to be an 8. Relationship requires a guy to be a 6. Something tells me that being in a relationship isn’t advantageous for men but that’s a different discussion.

I don’t believe in the notation that very attractive men aren’t good for marriage. I think every guy is capable but relationships/marriage doesn’t benefit very attractive men who get sex as much as average guys who don’t get a lot of sex.

Very attractive men don’t have to work to get sex like average guys. If both get into a relationship, the average guy will lean on the beta traits in order to be rewarded with sex. The attractive man will do no such thing - ultimately making him a worse partner if he fails to realize this.

Why choose unsatisfactory/disgusting sex over amazing sex.

I can understand your point but this isn’t reality. The average guy could out perform chad who is selfish when it comes to giving. The average guy might be more willing which increases female pleasure and overall quality of sex.

Some women will only have sex with the best looking guy they can get, often times they’re even willing to share him to do so. It’s the nature of the game.

Average guys still have a chance. There aren’t enough chads to go around so some women will eventually settle. Also try to make a strong connection with her early on. It’ll hold some weight when deciding who she wants to hook up with.

mindsanitizer · 2020-03-16T13:38:06+00:00

[deleted]

DeuxPistolets · 2020-03-16T13:46:14+00:00

Man look all we saying is stop bullshitting and faking like you want the less attractive guy at the end when you need a meal ticket for those pieces of shit you gave birth to. Like you "changed" or "matured" or some horseshit because we know "change" and "maturity" ain't something you females is particularly good at.

Hinatasundance · 2020-03-16T13:29:17+00:00

You shouldn't. Please dont date or marry men that you arent hot for.

Sir_manalot · 2020-03-16T13:24:59+00:00

[deleted]

Barely-moral · 2020-03-16T13:43:28+00:00

It is logical. It isn't fair.

I am absolutely a beta bucks guy. I can't for the life of me be attractive enough to get sex nor LTR from a woman unless I bring money, status and stability to the table.

Now, when a woman wants a stable relationship with a provider she can absolutely get that from me. Hell, she expects to get that from me or she is out. And there is nothing wrong with that.

What would be wrong is if she doesn't bring what I want to the table. What do I want? Exactly the same thing she gave to her previous partners on the exact same time table. Youth included.

If I am not getting what I want from the deal, then why should she get what she wants?

I get women's perspective. It is perfectly logical. But it isn't fair and I am not obligated to accept an unfair deal.

Emervila · 2020-03-16T14:23:05+00:00

Why would they choose a guy they aren't attracted to over a guy that they are? Why choose unsatisfactory/disgust-inducing sex over amazing sex (being that a lot of what makes sex good is attraction)? If they're feeling horny, why not go for the guy most likely to get them off- especially if they can?

This is exactly not the point TRP is arguing. What we argue is why the hell don't stay with those guys forever? why coming for us at 30ish? Here's some reality check, women come after avg men once they want to settle down and have family, but why? if Chad is this so amazing sex-god why going after avg men, why looking beta buck is all you want is Alpha fucks?

The argument is not women choosing Chad but the dual mating strategy: women expecting beta males to raise their bastards and give the commitment after riding the cock carousel. Women look for beta males post wall that's a fact.

What women need to do is to learn how to be a good apha widow and stay alone far from betas after finishing the CC

zino193 · 2020-03-16T15:02:49+00:00

Who are these "a lot of men of the manosphere"? You are addressing non-existent people. You are addressing straw men.

Even in the deepest of MGTOW, you won't find them saying women are arseholes for liking pretty or successful men. They accuse the lack of transparency and ownership that women can be and are quite shallow. That's it.

Most of the rage is not about not being fucked, but rather the listing and the pretense of good guys get the girl and inner beauty bs.

HollowLegMonk · 2020-03-16T15:37:38+00:00

I’ve noticed, especially recently that what women say is their “ideal” partner, or at least the laundry list of stuff they list that they want, often isn’t what they end up with because not all women can get high value men. That’s why you see subs like FDS, which is basically a bunch of women who are trying to learn how to manipulate high value men into committing to them which in itself is an oxymoron. Not all women can get high value men. They say things in dating profiles like they want a guy over 6 feet tall, a guy with a solid career etc, but when it actually comes down to who they show up with the guy is short and broke.

I feel like the manosphere overhypes the average women’s ability to get with really good looking and/or high value men. Of course my opinion of what a really good looking guy is or high value might be much higher then what some of these guys are talking about.

For me personally I’ve never cared or thought too much about the attraction thing. Obviously people want to have sex and/or date attractive people. What bothered me was the personality thing. I was taught that women wanted nice, honest, down to earth guys which is total bullshit. I knew it was bullshit from an early age but still played along with the fabrication because that’s what society demands. The day I stopped giving a shit about what society demands was the day my dating life improved immensely. Even my female friends and family noticed a difference and actually like my IDGAF what you think attitude. Women who call themselves feminists appreciate that I’m at least being honest regardless if they agree or not, but the majority agree with me so in the end it’s a win win.

LazerArray · 2020-03-16T15:33:52+00:00

They are free to choose any man they want. No man really has a problem with that alone. But we get annoyed with women because when their attempts at the super valuable men fail. They force us average dudes to sit and listen to them grumble about how men suck because the man they wanted had options and decided that there were better options than her.

Another issue is the fact that a lot of women just don’t understand men and have trouble seeing things from our perspective. They are under the impression that a man has to like a woman to sleep with her and that it guarantees commitment. This isn’t the case since men can absolutely hate their guts but still sleep with a woman if she isn’t hideous. Women have to like you to sleep with you. Men are not the same. Then women are surprised that the HVM they jumped into bed with doesn’t want to commit. He has way too many options and girls don’t ask themselves, “If he’s so valuable and has more valuable options, why would he commit to me?”

Basically guys get mad that women won’t just take the L when they fail at getting Chad. Guys always have to take L’s, it’s part of the game. But women have trouble accepting this fact. To men, when women complain about Chad, all we hear is, “There has to be something wrong with him since there can’t be anything wrong with me.” We also sometimes hear whale noises. We prefer the whale noises.

T-P-T-W-P · 2020-03-16T16:24:39+00:00

Women shouldn’t be to blame, you are correct. I won’t claim the concept of Chad as it’s different for everyone, but I am probably considered a high value male by most metrics. I have slept with a fair amount of women “below me” to varying degrees. Many of these women have gone on to have LTR’s with men I would consider less attractive than me. From my perspective, some of these women were sleeping with me in hopes that I commit more than sex to them. Some of them were already aware it would be a casual thing and even gave the “lets keep it light” talk before I did. Their physical desires were the constant there. They were simply living the way the wanted to live and doing the things they wanted to do. There is no fault.

Lesser men do lose out here in that to have these sort of casual relationships, they do have to often dip into a objectively lower tier of women to have any sort of sexual volume or consistency. I do think the competitive nature and self improvement aspect of this whole dynamic isn’t talked about enough. I see these discussions and many seem to take the perspective they are stuck where they’re at. But even to those who don’t avidly partake in the modern sex dynamic discussion, many of the things you mention are apparent. While it should be accepted that women do hold more power in the market, both sides can evaluate and proceed how they see fit. Lower value men can improve themselves through their appearance, skills, and accumulated resources in order to break above their respective threshold of available women. Lower value women can do the same towards being able to mate with even higher value men, and receive commitment from men who were previously above their baseline. We live a long time, we aren’t just born to immediately grow to maturity, reproduce, and die.

But from a wider perspective, the connectivity that digital media provides has absolutely been detrimental to the family dynamic. It’s driven the demand price for women high, and the percentage of males that have regular buying access/power has been slimmed significantly. It has caused women to overvalue themselves in their youth to where they might not be happy with their eventual looks-match/reproductive partner, and unaware men to feel frustrated when struggling to acquire females that they should seemingly be able to acquire. Hell, from the other end, high value men and women have a constant feed of options at their fingertips, and that isn’t conducive to healthy, lasting relationships either given that humans value novelty above almost anything. I don’t have a solution to any of this though, it’s just the way it is, and from the looks of our infrastructure, the way it will be.

DubsPackage · 2020-03-16T16:41:24+00:00

It's not illogical, it's just short-sighted, scummy and disingenuous, and speaks to the broken social contract between men and women to honor each other, which in the long run does more damage to women.

Like if some guy went around the whole room, trying to get women's numbers, and they all shot him down. Then finally he comes to you. Wouldn't you be insulted? Like you were his last option.

It would make you feel bad and you would tell him to go to hell.

Well it's kinda like that when you fuck around hoping to lock down a HVM, and none of them will get locked down because they have options.

And then finally when her looks are turning to dogshit and her uterus is about to fall out, THEN she comes to you, "hey want a relationship? Want to have kids? Want to get married?"

Hell to the no, if I wasn't good enough to fuck, then you're not good enough to marry.

And that's the long view, the long game.

And then there's the extra-long view, social contracts, society and so forth. I mean what kind of society are you building, to just use people in the moment?

Ok then don't be surprised when people use you too, what goes around comes around.

TheSnowyPlover · 2020-03-16T18:15:55+00:00

Because the goal for most women isn’t endless causal sex with endless numbers of high value men, it’s being able to lock down and have a relationship with one high value man. Women, especially in their younger years have a tendency to try and lock down men who either don’t want to be locked down or who are so far above SMV wise that they have no reason to

From the outside perspective of your average man this just seems like a waste of time and effort. Men almost never run into a situation where the HB9 sleeps with them and they think they have a chance with her as a result. Mainly because women generally don’t fuck/date down. As a result of all this, men get the league concept ingrained in them quite early in life (ie “she’s out of my league”). So when a man sees a women dating/fucking a guy who’s out of her league, the question becomes why is she wasting her time?

Aaren_Augustine · 2020-03-16T13:30:44+00:00

They can't KEEP those more attractive valuable men. Because they are lesser women.

DeuxPistolets · 2020-03-16T13:53:56+00:00

I’m not part of the “manosphere”. I don’t have a problem with women sleeping with the “hottest” guy they can access if their goal is sex. Men are guilty of the same thing.

I think a lot of the complaining in the manosphere is coming from men that aren’t successful in finding women to sleep with.

I can see how men wouldn’t like the idea of a woman, that’s spent her past sleeping with attractive men, suddenly wanting a relationship with a less attractive man. Those men are going to feel like they’re being “settled for”. They’re naturally going to ask, “Why do I have to pay for you and provide for you in order have sex, when you’d give it up to all those other guys for free?”. A woman in that same situation would ask the same thing. It would make someone feel used.

Gabo9718 · 2020-03-16T14:15:39+00:00

You call it illogical, i call it exercising restraint in exchange for long term gain. Its “logical” for me to snort coke, fuck a hooker and get STDs because It feElS goOd but there will be long term consequences. Thats what youre choosing to ignore, most women are not the town bicycle, most women do not enjoy being pumped and dumped, and most men dont want a woman who has served as a community cumdump.

Theres plenty evidence that correlates high n count in women with mental illness, depression, and failed marriages later in life. Turns out sex is actually meaningful and not just an itch to scratch with random cock/pussy. Society is selling this lie of casual sex that doesnt turn out well for most people, and because most people are incapable of independent thought we just keep sliding into bedlam while hedonist Last Men like you shrug their shoulders and ask what the fuss is about.

carlsberg24 · 2020-03-16T14:30:19+00:00

The only reason that relatively average women can sleep with high value men is that the latter sleep with many women and commit to only one or none. So women choose to live in a harem in exchange for access to a high value man and the low chance that he might commit over having a lower value man who is likely to commit. Biology at work. When the menopausal clock starts ticking, women usually recalibrate and go after men more likely to agree to an exclusive relationship and resource transfer.

ktowamerican · 2020-03-16T14:20:51+00:00

There aren’t enough of us to go around.

TheBookOfSeil · 2020-03-16T14:34:30+00:00

"Attractive men" and "valuable men" are capable of being different men. That being said, if one man had money and another man was very attractive, the woman in the scenario would likely try to have both, and if she could only pick one, it would typically be the one with the resources.

The problem is that some women aren't able to sleep with attractive, valuable men. There aren't that many attractive, valuable men to go around, so women either choose lesser attractive men, or they get dogs/cats.

I guess I just don't know what men want women to do here.

I think the main issue is instead of realizing that there aren't enough attractive, valuable men to go around and move on, some women would rather complain about there not being enough attractive, valuable men to go around and simply fight over the few that exist while refusing to take what's available to them.

abaxeron · 2020-03-16T14:55:23+00:00

why would a woman do anything different? .... why act like it's illogical?

Why do people abstain from things that feel good? - Because a lot of things that feel good (oversleeping, eating sweets, taking addictive drugs, smoking, ...) - are bad for your future, a bad investment, and a bad habit.

If they're feeling horny, why not go for the guy most likely to get them off- especially if they can?

Women's ability to tell which guy can get them off is ALARMINGLY imperfect.

thedeadpill · 2020-03-16T15:21:44+00:00

As others have said, it's because they fuck 'valuable' men with the hopes they can get a relationship out of them, and when it doesn't happen (because that guy is going to commit to somewhere between zero and one woman), they come crying to Dear Abby or the internet about how all men are bad.

I think most non-incel men have accepted that they are viewed as 'lesser', and many have reached the conclusion that you can opt-out of that whole thing. Is that set of conclusions upsetting combined with the fact women are shitting on #YesAllMen all over the internet? Kind of, but, reality is often disappointing.

tl;dr: Sure, go fuck 'valuable' men. That's your right, but please stop whining about it when they treat you badly.

beto_747 · 2020-03-16T15:28:39+00:00

The issue is that for a man to be attractive he has to have a lot going for him. Much of which is out of his control such as height, pp length, general body shape, hair, voice etc. then on top of winning the genetic lottery, he has to be successful, have an apt, car, good job, live alone, etc. and what does his female counterpart have to do? She has to be near the average or above.

Psych0_W0lf · 2020-03-16T19:19:36+00:00

I just wanna ask you if you were a man would you be okay with the fact that the girl is only with you because you are the SAFE GUY

12112019 · 2020-03-17T00:43:26+00:00

I don't believe the anger is towards women sleeping with attractive men, it is more towards dual mating strategies.

I don't believe anyone will have an issue with a woman who tries to marry these kinds of men and either succeeds or fails and stays alone, the issue is women switching strategies when they hit 30.

ThrowawayCactus6012 · 2020-03-16T14:03:40+00:00

Again, I get how some men might feel a little butthurt if they aren't hot, but why act like it's illogical?

I don't know if anyone acts like it's illogical that women choose to sleep with attractive men, but I think men react against being collectively blamed as a gender just because women choose the wrong men to be with. That's where it becomes illogical.

If women would just be honest about it and accept responsibility for their choices, there would probably be fewer complaints from the "manosphere." Nobody really cares who they're sleeping with or not sleeping with. But it's the women who demand that men "believe" them whenever they have some sort of complaint or grievance against men. Why should we believe them?

factorfactorfactor · 2020-03-16T13:27:13+00:00

no one acts like it's illogical for a woman who wants to whore around to choose the hottest guys

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wtknight · 2020-03-16T15:14:50+00:00

If average value women want to be used by high value men for casual sex, then more power to them. They aren’t fulfilling their female imperative by doing so though, because she’s not going to lock a guy like that down into a relationship in most cases. If she’s just out looking for casual sex and she’s using him too, then I’m not into that lifestyle and wouldn’t be into her anyway.

RoyAB1987 · 2020-03-16T15:42:43+00:00

I think the issue there is the men are feeling used and undervalued. Said women chose to pursue men they perceived as being better or higher value, and when the attempt at gaining a relationship with those men failed, they settled for men they perceived as less valuable for the security of being in a relationship for a multitude of reasons (take your pick).

Don’t women feel the same way when they feel as if a man is settling for them because it didn’t work out with who they really wanted?

This isn’t a gender issue, it’s just how humans feel when they think they are not their partners preferred choice.

I think people should look at it this way. Whoever you end up with long term, is the best you could get, so if you are undervaluing them, you are undervaluing yourself.

NixieNik99 · 2020-03-16T15:49:04+00:00

I married my Chad at 17 . It's possible to get the Chad ladies lol Don't settle for the guys that your not attracted too . It will lead to Dead Bedroom if you do !!!

CentralAdmin · 2020-03-16T15:49:41+00:00

It's just illogical for women to go for lesser when they can have better.

The problem is they can't. They get pumped and dumped by Chad and think they're worthy of Chad's commitment. They then get Alpha widowed and no one is good enough. She's a 6 who thinks she's an 8.

Look at the laundry lists of requirements of so many women in their 30s. They want a man who is stable, who will be a daddy to her three kids, who is tall and good looking, who has his own place, who has a good job. These women stay single forever, convinced they're better than the losers they end up rejecting because they believe they're only worth the best.

Even if you claim there's nothing wrong with her fucking a hot guy - and there isn't - it would be ludicrous to expect any average man to be okay with being settled for when she inevitably commits to her second choice because she couldn't get Chad. It would be one thing if women knew that Chad wasn't going to commit and they felt equally attracted to their eventual betas they settle down with. But they're not.

Again, I get how some men might feel a little butthurt if they aren't hot, but why act like it's illogical?

It is illogical. It causes emotional and trust issues just like if she discovered he only married her because his ex rejected him or she was his second choice.

Why is it illogical to expect the person you commit to for the rest of your life to view you as their best deal?

Which means this:

Very attractive sexy men aren't usually marriage-types. If a girl wants to be married, obviously she'd go for a guy who wants to be married as well.

Is a problem because she doesn't see marriage as more valuable than casual sex with guys who will never commit. It not only says a lot about her values - no foresight, poor impulse control, some self delusion - but that he gets to pay for what she gave out for free to men who she deemed hotter and sexier.

Why does he have to commit for the same sex she gave out to other men who didn't have to commit? And why does she view those men as so attractive, she'd be willing to have commitment-free sex with them? Why does she not find her LTR partner equally or more attractive?

What greater benefit does he get from that woman compared to a similar woman who, say, only had sex in committed relationships and actually got some LTR experience?

7Fucky0u7 · 2020-03-16T16:22:40+00:00

Get out of Reddit and start realizing what you think aboat woman isn't like you think,looking out for you Incel.- God

2020-03-16T16:38:09+00:00

Generally most guys don't care who a woman sleeps with.

What guys don't like is the expectation a woman can spend her best years, physically, sleeping around then expect a different type of guy, one that she wasn't showing attention to, to settle down with her when she's out of options.

It's not a jealousy issue, they simply want partners that haven't slept around a lot, for their own various reasons.

Casting it as a jealousy issue is a misunderstanding. There's nothing wrong with a guy wanting to settle down with a woman that hasn't slept around a lot. There's nothing wrong with a guy refusing to be with a woman that has made certain life choices he doesn't agree with.

This doesn't mean be a jerk and call her a whore but, it does mean he doesn't have to be some "clean up man" a woman can turn to when it's "time to settle down."

anishpatel131 · 2020-03-16T20:00:50+00:00

Because women change their minds constantly

the_calibre_cat · 2020-03-16T21:29:44+00:00

they wouldn't, people (men) who expect/want them to are kidding themselves

whyserenity · 2020-03-16T22:32:13+00:00

women can do what they want. If they choose to be a whore, they better realize no one will save them from being the crazy cat lady.

Physiologist21 · 2020-03-16T22:44:37+00:00

They wouldn't. End thread.

Same reason they don't get married down the road. More valuable, attractive options.

Moral of the story, be an adult and realize your actions always have consequences.

Massgumption · 2020-03-16T23:50:44+00:00

Nah, I agree this IS natural, though I'd change it to super handsome men, rather than hvm, let's be honest, you girls don't give a fuck as long as he's pretty.... Men aren't so bothered by this (or they shouldn't be, prostitution is pretty much widespread and porn is better than it's ever been), only that when women hit 30s and decide they need to settle down with a true provider or someone who will actually marry them, it feels like you're a being a bit of societies clown.

Generally speaking everyone is behaving the way nature has decreed, but the fact of easy contraception plus mass hypergamy means marriage rates are plummeting and there are a massive rise in singletons going into their 40s, men who were single in their early 20s and then too jaded later on (or woke depending on how you see it) to even bother settling with a parasite, or women who played the game and left it far too late to find the right one. Either situation is not great for people from a species perspective as it ultimately means less children, or less children with both parents.

Soupallnatural · 2020-03-17T00:13:18+00:00

The biggest problem with all of this is that every single person on the planet has a different opinion on what’s attractive. You might think someone is ugly or ‘lesser’ but someone else might think that person is perfect. There isn’t one collective conscious.

2020-03-17T01:00:25+00:00

Stop creating strawmen and getting frustrated about them. Approximately zero men have a problem with who women want to fuck. This is a non topic.

akaean · 2020-03-16T13:40:23+00:00

This question drenched in hyperbole.

Okay so first of all, we all should agree that some people are more attractive than other people. This is something intuitive, and something that any red piller should be able to agree with. Especially since manosphere types are all about rating girls on a scale of 1-10 based on attraction alone. In the same way, men can also be rated on that scale as well. GENERALLY. I say generally because people do have types. So there is some variation in what women find attractive, just as there is some variation in what men find attractive.

Second of all, I am not a raging narcissist, so I understand that I am not the most attractive man in the world. Otherwise I would probably be a model or something.

What is my point here. Just because I'm not the most attractive, does not mean that 1) women are not attracted to me, and 2) that I don't have value.

Why would they choose a guy they aren't attracted to over a guy that they are? Why choose unsatisfactory/disgust-inducing sex over amazing sex (being that a lot of what makes sex good is attraction)?

I would posit that they wouldn't, and that they shouldn't. But the truth is, its not as black and white as TRP and incels and the unscientifically sourced 80/20 rule make it out to be. (If you are going to cite that dumb OKC study I will tell you in vivid detail why it is pointless in a comment.)

My point, is that there is not some cabal of Alan Richtson clones out there that women are sleeping with exclusively. I might get less women than a model or an actor... but I'm not counting and that isn't important. Just because people more attractive than me exist does not mean I am resigned to a life of virginity or cuckoldry. Just because there are "higher value" men than me does not mean I do not have "value". The Black Pill is a lie, because it is unable to account for any nuance in its world view.

Pastelitomaracucho · 2020-03-16T14:36:39+00:00

> Why would they choose a guy they aren't attracted to over a guy that they are?

In times of war, any hole is a trench.

Or in other words, dick is dick.

CMOAN_MAYNE · 2020-03-16T15:08:08+00:00

Because high value women trade commitment for sex, which they don’t receive from these men.

reluctantly_red · 2020-03-16T15:23:21+00:00

Sure. But she needs to understand that the guy she eventually gets hitched to is also settling. If he has any self-respect at all he'll appreciate her for what she is and not put her on a pedestal.

Folknust · 2020-03-16T15:37:16+00:00

There’s such a limited amount of valuable men that not every woman can get one. They have to go with the next best thing.

SuicMcpAp · 2020-03-16T15:37:47+00:00

I agree. And that goes for both sides. If men can choose the "best women", then ....

NPC55 · 2020-03-16T15:51:51+00:00

As long as you don't expect society so subsidize your fuck ups, I don't care. I don't think women nowadays are pursuing a good strategy to find LTR's (if that is even what most want anymore), but what every person chooses to do is their own business.

2020-03-16T16:10:58+00:00

They don't. This question is asked on the sub about once a week. They should fuck whomever they want.

Just don't make some simp take care of your kids for you. Make the hot sexy guy take care of his own kids. Leave the 'disgusting' betas out of it.

bigdaveyl · 2020-03-16T16:22:47+00:00

Because you're missing the point: There's only so many so called high value men out there and every woman wants one. And the reverse is certainly true: Why would a man, especially a high value one, want unsatisfactory/disgust-inducing sex?

Inevitably, many women want an LTR/marriage. Again, there's only so many "high value men" to go around, so what does Becky offer Chad, other than a couple of holes? Becky is either going to have to adjust her parameters or continually be pumped and dumped by Chad.

2020-03-16T16:24:59+00:00

Obviously you shouldn’t willingly settle if you don’t have to.

Where women get confused is they think their value is the same as the guy they can sleep with. When in reality their value is the guy they can get commitment from.

For men it’s the opposite. Their SMV is the hottest woman they can bang

So women can be in a situation where they can sleep with 8s, consider themselves an 8, but only be able to date 6s. That’s where the frustration for them comes in

Teflon08191 · 2020-03-16T16:35:58+00:00

Because attractive, valuable men are competed for fiercely by women, making him less of a "sure thing" when it comes to commitment, which is ultimately what women want.

Or put another way, because sooner or later (usually later) most women realize they need to start making some compromises if they don't want to be alone.

2020-03-16T16:37:20+00:00

They shouldn't and . . I don't think they do.

Anyone advocating a change of such behavior is - pardon my french - an idiot.

What I think that "issue" is that the definition of "attractive" changes as the woman ages, and that causes friction.

PickleLine · 2020-03-16T16:39:41+00:00

Because it damages womens' ability to pair bond and to like and respect non-top tier men they may become serious with in the future. No woman wants to settle for a man. If she never sleeps with or involves herself top tier men, then she has less of a comparison point to her actual husband or boyfriend to look down on him for.

Women who involve themselves with high value men also delude themselves into thinking that they are somewhat in a relationship or get relationship needs taken care of by the HVM. There's no separating past from the future.

havibaby · 2020-03-16T16:44:13+00:00

Both sexes do this. Only 1 has the discipline and standards to hold out. Every one is trying to “hypergamy” it’s human nature not female nature.

rebelauthor · 2020-03-16T16:47:24+00:00

This is based on the faulty logic that logic drives women's thinking where emotional, sexual decision-making comes into play. I agree, women (and men) want attractive partners. It has nothing to do with logic though. I don't think ugly men are complaining about the theory you posit. I think they are complaining about how women want to settle with betas after being ran through by alphas because they dont want to end up with a girl who has been broke off by the whole football team.

Jip_Jaap_Stam · 2020-03-16T17:01:07+00:00

They shouldn't; they should do precisely as they please.

Never settle. If you don't secure a man you're attracted to before you're no longer able to do so, then call it quits and accept you may have to focus on your career and friends rather than domestic happiness. Don't fall back on someone lesser; it's disrespectful to them and yourself. In short, lie in the bed you've made.

If, at 30, you marry someone you'd have refused at 20, purely to have children, you're not doing those potential kids any favours. Chances are you and Billy Beta won't make each other happy; you'll either get divorced or nag him to distraction. Either way, you'll make the kids unhappy too. Then you've made at least 3 – maybe 4 or more, depending on how many unfortunate mites you spawn – miserable people, instead of just 1 (you, the alpha widow).

TL;DR - Do what you want, but expect there to be long term consequences if you make mistakes.

OICP · 2020-03-16T17:01:37+00:00

I guess I just don't know what men want women to do here.

i believe some men want nothing really just the AWARENNES OF THE FACT (yes as obvious as it is , many men are clueless (not entirely their fault - social programming like women are the fairer sex etc ...) that women want to fuck hot men and only hot men if they can)

Zippo-Cat · 2020-03-16T17:05:50+00:00

I dunno, why?

ElGupo1978 · 2020-03-16T17:10:16+00:00

It’s not about correcting women, it’s about men being forewarned and adapting to the situation accordingly.

Some guys use this information to bash women and some women deny this observations so men get into arguments with women and its sounds like they are condemning women but they just making the point.

Ltrfsn · 2020-03-16T17:55:05+00:00

I wish low value man had voluntary euthanasia available so I could finally escape this hellworld. My existence is pain

LGdollarsign · 2020-03-16T18:10:10+00:00

No one is saying it's not logical. It just doesn't help a womans case for getting married. If all women are chasing the top 20 percent of men. why would the top 20 percent chose to settle down. A man of "lesser value" is more inclined to be faithful, and work harder to keep you. Real love has nothing to do with finances but enjoy your rich one night stands.

rus9384 · 2020-03-16T18:33:09+00:00

Men want women not to be able to sleep with men who are far more attractive than these women.

This is not gonna be a thing, though.

gschweska · 2020-03-16T19:39:10+00:00

Self-esteem issues. That or you need to check you definition of less men

Market_Feudalism · 2020-03-16T20:45:17+00:00

There is no reason they would do anything else, which is why they must be made to. There is nothing for women to do or help. It is entirely on men to force women to sleep with less attractive men.

77tuoemtae · 2020-03-16T21:20:08+00:00

Better sex i guess? Not every man goes around saying they are valuable attractive etc. Thats cocky asf

2020-03-16T21:40:57+00:00

It’s funny bc unattractive women are not all out having all this sex with “hot” men all the time, it’s BS. Hot ppl usually fuck hot ppl, if you ask the most unattractive woman a hot man had ever had sex with, they will usually say 6/10 which is still slightly above average. If a guy is routinely banging “ugly” women, he’s probably not very attractive himself, but “red pill” men like to overrate other men and act like some 5/10 man is a 6 or 7/10.

Bntt89 · 2020-03-16T21:56:44+00:00

As if women never get salty ever when guys do the same thing. The only difference between men and women, is that men have sex with women below their league because they are more horny. Women are just as shallow as men but for some reason men cant ever call it out? I dont get it.

Gordon-G · 2020-03-16T22:29:32+00:00

They won’t which is why the birth and marriage rates have plummeted. 39’ers .. women who are 3’s delusionallly believe they’re 9’s

Tonga89 · 2020-03-16T22:35:25+00:00

Again, I get how some men might feel a little butthurt if they aren't hot, but why act like it's illogical?

It's perfectly logical. Let me explain it easily, becouse men here are making too much noise but can't make a point.

It all boils down to having an honest talk.

They are bitter as fuck couse they can't fuck, but you already knew that. Also they want to play their part in this "revenge fantasy" where they reject the women that rejected them when young.

Red Pill men, like Incels, don't disguise their bitterness. I think the difference is that Incels want to stay in a perpetual state of bitterness while Terpers evolve, eventually, to acceptance and what they call "IDGAF" attitude, which is in my opinión the only positive solution here, becouse you can't love your life resenting all people that hurted you or simply didn't care about you, that's a recipe to a miserable life.

But while at an individual level this fantasy never plays out in real life, however in the great scheme of things this mating strategy brings misery and loneliness to most people including, and particularly, women.

Trying to prove this theory is, of course, an herculean task, as it's a requisit that women speak honestly about how bad they have it in the dating world, and this is not an easy thing, becouse the trend for women it's to pursue empowerment and sexual liberation and all that so they won't admit willingly that they are the real slaves of sexual liberation.

However, you can see the signs of the first generation of used sluts in forums like FDS. They are, I think, women trying to speak honestly and openly about the pain and the problems they have to face in a vapid, superficial and pornified dating market when their pursue of what they call "High Value Men" put them in a position of vulnerability towards men with lots of options.

I don't think women have a great time being throatfucked, anally raped and then dumped or sistematically cucked by the same "Fuckboys" FDS girls claim "they used to date" back in their pickmeshes days.

Have you seen the level of bitterness, anger and resentment on those women's forums? GenderCritical? AskFeminism? RadFem?

Those are the women "High Value Men" should commit to? Bitter, angry, resentfull former sluts that don't do anal and oral anymore becouse now they are Queens and demand to be treated like ones?

Thousands of posts of woman after woman calling out men in the hook up scene. Talking about how guys use them like cum buckets and jackhammer them, stick their dicks in their asses without consent and dump them if she gags too much or don't let him choke her.

All these threads about women not reaching orgasm 90% of the time. About sex being painful, degrading, dirty, objectifying.

Who were this women dating? Well, you guess...

And here you have a hard truth: there are no men waiting for you with open arms beyond that "wall".

Monogamy it's almost non-existent today, so if women are harboring hopes to marry some day a good husband I got news to them. Most will not. And this is not, actually, a Red Pill manofactured distopy. This is reality. This is the reality where the Red Pill comes from. Red Pill exists becouse of this, not the reverse.

If most women don't want to get married ever then dismiss my argument. Again, I don't expect women to be 100% honest, never.

Look, if you are a girl, I understand. You don't need to admit anything. Just don't come here acting like women have the upper hand in the market couse you don't.

Women feel bitter, resentfull, angry and left behind.

But also they feel used, discarded, dirty... And raped.

Seems that sex with hot dudes it's not what life is all about uh?

Women ARE as bitter as incels. Even worst.

Look at feminism.

2020-03-16T23:00:00+00:00

Sense of control from owning an upper edge on them.

You know, I can always do better.

Ballface8020 · 2020-03-16T23:34:00+00:00

Women's sense of entitlement is what's illogical.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I have no issue with women being cumrags for tall guys. Whatever floats their boat. What is insane is women thinking that they deserve commitment from tall guys.

That's basically all FDS is: "this tall guy that I'm sleeping with is refusing to simp for/be faithful to for me!" But why should a tall guy simp for or be faithful to a woman when there are 10 other women in line behind her willing to take her place? The math just doesn't work, although I get that math isn't women's strong suit.

MeMadMeSad · 2020-03-17T01:08:12+00:00

Whatever your mental gymnastics, fact of the matter is women actually dateand sleep with men that you consider "lesser". Here's why: 1. Dating isn't all about sex. The majority of it is spending your most filthy and vulnerable minutes with another human being. The biggest chads can and do fail at this, because superficial looks can't hold conversations, show support, or empathize with one's feeligs. 2. Attraction is not purely based on looks. Connected to the first point, human biology just doesn't work like that - beauty standards are too incosistent across time, cultures and individuals for sex to rely on it, and only a very small portion of people could actually be considered "conventionally beautiful". Most of us, boys and girls included, look average and we wouldn't survive as a species if only the pretty ones reproduced. 3. Therefore the reason why women would sleep with or date 'lesser' men, is because in the women's eyes they aren't.

Gordon-G · 2020-03-17T02:15:58+00:00

Men are wising up... marriage and birth rates have plummeted.

HumanSockPuppet · 2020-03-17T03:11:38+00:00

Because eventually they hit 30 and start running out of options lol

2020-03-17T03:54:49+00:00

They should sleep with whoever they want....But they also should not complain whenever a guy does not want to marry them because they have slept with everybody they wanted to.

Men value virtue and self-control in a woman. Ironically, women value the exact opposite in a sex partner.

Innovative_being · 2020-03-17T04:22:19+00:00

They can sure, but to prevent the likelihood of them divorcing and cheating on the man they settle for when they decide to get married, they probably shouldn’t.

Here is why: when you had a Ferrari (hot attractive bad boys) in your 20s and suddenly in your 30s you have to drive a Honda Civic (good guy you married) you’re gonna be unhappy. He won’t give you the same tingles or fuck you the same way, so you’ll be unhappy and either cheat, or divorce or both. Not to mention the financial incentives involved for women in the latter.

Later when she magically decides to settle down, why should a man pay a higher price (commitment + paying for dates + waiting 90 days for sex for a woman in her 30s - PAST her prime) while she gave it the same night to every man she hooked up in her 20s - DURING her prime. That’s a bad deal for men. Not to mention this will make the WOMAN unhappy because the guy she’s settling for doesn’t measure up.

Women should exercise self control in her 20s if for no other reason than to make sure she is happy when she finally decides to get married later in life.

Men are waking up. The experience of women in Datingoverthirty subreddit is proof that men are waking up.

LeJacquelope · 2020-03-17T05:39:32+00:00

Then don't complain when we say women are transactional mercenaries when it comes to relationships.

IwantyoualltoBEDAVE · 2020-03-17T06:49:16+00:00

It’s not even true though. The more attractive I got, the less men hit on me. I found a sweet spot of being overweight and pretty face was the time I got approached by men. Now I’ve aged out of the acceptable age bracket and my sex life is dead, even though I’m still somewhat attractive.

Men have no idea what women’s sex lives are like in reality. Life isn’t porn.

IwantyoualltoBEDAVE · 2020-03-17T06:56:14+00:00

Also there is a range of difference when it comes to what women find attractive. I have a type and it’s absolutely nothing like my friends types. There’s simultaneously no one AND someone out there for you, just like there is and isn’t for me.

Avicii4life_123 · 2020-03-17T09:27:12+00:00

Some are just jealous. Some don't want to be settled for. The more common thing is that women desire the top 20% of guys in society and then if they can't get one they have to Seattle for another guy who is not in the top 20% and if you have that knowledge, you can get mad at those women for choosing you now when their chance of scoring a 20% has sailed. Usually at 28+.

And nobody really wants to be settled for tbh bc now you are not the guy she wanted at all but your the guy she settled for and she might leave you as soon as somebody offers her a better opportunity.

PrekaereLage · 2020-03-17T09:47:26+00:00

If you want men to stop complaining about women, maybe women should also stop complaining about men? Yeah, neither is going to happen.\ The issue isn't having standards, but setting them too high. Unless we completely abolish monogamy and women agree to do relationships the muslim way, meaning four wives per married man, you simply cannot all have the man you want, because 80% of women going for 20% of men means there's simply not enough "high value" aka attractive men to meet the demand.\ On an individual level, one reason I can give you for not jumping on every attractive man you come across is that relationships work best if both people had a similar amount of sexual partners. Which means if you slept around excessively, a man whose sex life only really started once he earned enough money to look like husband material will be far less likely to date you.\ And here's the thing: women can't complain about that without being hypocrites. There is, in your own words, no reason for me to date someone who is likely sexually incompatible with me, no reason to date a (by then) fellow 32 year-old who still sees children as a "maybe in ten years" option, or a single mother. So why should I? Newsflash: Men can have standards, too.\ Now, this might all be irrelevant if a woman doesn't plan to settle down and is 100% sure that she won't ever regret it and all these conservatives know-it-alls don't know her personally or just hate women or what have you, and I'm fine with that, but what the manosphere mostly proposes is that just like a woman isn't obligated to date me just because I find her attractive, which is 100% correct and justified and understandable, I am also not obligated yo date her just because she finds me attractive and that women should stop blaming men for the consequences of their own actions. We can have standards, and can look for partners we actually want to date, and the "you're bigoted if you don't date me or people like me" attitude won't change that, just like women can go for chads as much as they like to.\ And as long as women don't stop asking where all the good men have gone, the manosphere won't stop answering the question with what it's proponents deem the truthful answer.

doom2345 · 2020-03-17T12:00:08+00:00

It's not completely logical. If you play musical chairs with only a limited number of very attractive men, then there's a good chance you'll end up without one at the age of 35 with only unattractive men as an option (slim pickings because fewer unmarried HVM at that age and your own age lessens your chances with who's remaining). On the other hand, if you "settle" for a more average looking man early on you are safe from that reality.

No women wants to think about this but the fact remains there aren't enough tall, white, fit doctors for everyone. But it's the mathematical truth. There was a best selling and highly controversial book on it not long ago - The Case for Settling for Mr. Good Enough.

And you're right - some men are bitter. And many of them are secretly gleeful that you'll eventually face this reality. Even worse if playing musical chairs made you a single mom.

Workaholiconew · 2020-03-17T12:55:32+00:00

Basically? Access to resources, access to romance, access to relationships.

Most men who are in the top 20% have zero interest on giving those to women. The bottom 80% mostly are okay with it, at least for a time and a price.

Take too long, lose too much value, and you will have no access to it, ever.

MentleGentlemen098 · 2020-03-20T03:47:52+00:00

What makes you think you can sleep with attractive and valuable men?

TheBachelor536 · 2020-03-22T18:26:33+00:00

Stay single....do not let sex rule your life....do things and go places where most people will not do and will not go....explore new places.....work hard and play harder.

2020-03-16T14:23:41+00:00

Who cares what sluts do? I love sluts, I fuck'm when I can, and I don't think anyone argues, outside of tradconincelswishforIslam losers care what a smallish % of women do.

The issue is women looking for a relationship, shouldn't waste those years shooting out of their league for guys who won't commit and then find themselves with only the scraps after they are past the normal marriage of age late 20's early 30's. Then you are left with broken people and players mostly, until the first wave of divorces.

Title	If women are able to sleep with attractive, valuable men, why would they choose to sleep with lesser men?
Author	inthegarbageigo
Upvotes	137
Comments	455
Date	March 16, 2020 1:21 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/fjkubt/if_women_are_able_to_sleep_with_attractive/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/if-women-are-able-to-sleep-with-attractive.354987 https://theredarchive.com/post/354987