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When they say "choice"... yeah right. The irony...

by SKRedPill | March 14, 2020 | TheRedPill

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TL:DR - Calling your biggest compulsion of all a choice has to be the greatest irony in history. Taking credit for everything that's actually done by nature and calling it "choice" is dumb. "Love is a choice" is the mother of BP delusions.

Today a whatsapp group of which I am also a part of (part family, part friends) has a heated discussion over a celebrity figure talking about her friend cheating with another guy. Naturally they also come up with men who cheat and the discussion goes on as to what's acceptable in a relationship and what's not.

And you know the word comes up that feminists are so fond of using? Choice. The celebrity girl used the word and all others caught on to it. Apparently it was a moral choice. Apparently love is a <cough, cough> CHOICE! The rest is on the lines of "blah blah blah, choice. blah blah" - the usual rhetoric (women's dialogues seem so scripted with RP eyes that I swear they probably rehearse these lines in their circles). A woman should have the choice to be with who she wants...

The discussion went on aimlessly over a question of choices after that. The irony? We're talking about something where no only really chooses, only their bodies do.

Women's need to use the word "choice" is directly proportional to their internal feeling of being a victim (because only a starving man is obsessed with food). And honestly, it's utterly absurd that they describe their relationships as a "choice". Pragmatic yes, but far less of a choice than anyone wants to admit.

Relationships can't really work well only on conscious logic. If you think sexual instincts are Machiavelian, relationships that are entirely based on rational logic and pragmatism are much worse. They end up only considering the provider and become an emotionally soul-less, cold blooded business transaction. It's only a question of how soon the provider becomes a diving board for men that are actually attractive that one can fall in love with. The rational mind making entirely logical choices -- is only for the robots.

Let's go beyond logic and consider a much more powerful form of choice. What would happen if we had true choice over our bodies and emotions? Just think - what would it be if you could truly love and be happy at will? Ideally, you'd have complete control over your biochemistry and therefore you could fall in love with anyone, or even experience all those feelz even if no one was around. You could be blissed out and totally content. Ironically this could make you so self sufficient that the very need for relationships could go DOWN. A breakup would be nothing more than a bump on the road. If she was also that way and you both chose to be in a relationship, it would be pretty incredible and idyllic.

Also, if she could truly choose love, that beta husband might actually be loved and find great sex and respect for once (not that this is actually good for him to stay complacent and a fatass). If you could truly choose, you could also choose not to cheat and be no worse off for it.

If love was a choice, attraction and seduction would never be as important as they are. Temptation would lose its hold over you. Orbiters wouldn't have to exist. Love would become....easy.

If sex was a choice, there would be no dead bedrooms...

Love as a choice is the ultimate BP dream. If it were true, your blue pilled dreams would actually become true. Unconditional love would be a reality.

Does ANY of this ever happen? No.

In fact this is probably at the root of all BP delusions, that love as we see it is something that can happen at will. It is why people try so hard when they realize a relationship isn't working and end up doing exactly the wrong things.

The only choice literally lies in picking out one guy from a list of boys all ready to throw themselves at her boots. Even that isn't much of a rational conscious choice - it goes by feels. If it was choice, relationships could function by logic and principles. But they don't.

Sex is man's second biggest biological compulsion after the survival instinct, and today in prosperous times it is the biggest. Attraction is not really a choice. It happens to you. Being as attractive as possible can be a choice, but the whole process of attraction itself runs on instinct. Sex is such an enormous naturally created compulsion that you might find the biggest sex scandals emerging especially in places where people try very hard to pretend they're above it.

Think of just how hard it is to stop yourself from giving your dick (and women their clits or breasts) a free pass. If it just revs up the drive a bit, you just can't resist. Your sex instincts are kept in just enough control so that you can function normally at work, sometimes not even that much. You have a bit of control over some fine details on just how you wanna use your dick, but you have no control over the the sex instinct itself.

Are your thoughts under control? Nah, your brain churns out tens of thousands of them all the fucking time, maybe a dozen ideas of which are actually relevant and useful.

Your emotions? They're essentially reactions to whatever happens. They drive you into obsession and often you're powerless to resist. Name any emotion that came up at will at full power the moment you wished for it. Never. Emotions are reactions, not choices. At their proactive best they are a driving force of desire, but not really choice. Life would become too simple if you could just summon happiness, passion, drive and romance at will. Your sex drive comes easy, because first of all it's barely in control to begin with.

The need for relationships or emotional fulfillment aren't choices either. They're hardwired into biology. Speaking of biology, what about your body? You can only consciously control some of your muscles, some of the time. Otherwise you can't control a damn thing that happens in a single cell in your body. It's all nature doing everything for you. To rebuild your body, you slog at the iron temple for years, but the detailed repair work? Your body rebuilds itself, you just get to control your reps and diet. You can't fix a single cell in this body on your own.

Give yourself complete freedom for sometime, no rules, no discipline, no restraint. What happens? You self destruct in a mess of depression and addictions. Most of these celebrities are in fact walking train wrecks behind the scenes, they even make good publicity from their shit. But that's not what you wanted. You said you wanted to live by free choice. Why would you choose to make your life hell? Logically, you would choose to live wisely and blissfully right?

Look at what you did, not what you said. Because you are NOT free, your haven't made a choice at all. What you really did was to give all your compulsions a free pass, with no limiters and no discretion. You are a hypocrite for thinking you actually had as much control over your "choices" as you think. Some of the biggest wrecks in human history are people who believed they were truly free. The people who found freedom to shape their lives were in fact very disciplined and focused.

And you expect someone more emotionally sensitive than you to somehow make love and sex a choice? It's hilarious, this pretense that you have somehow mastered yourself.

This goes even further when they talk about other choices - it could be about anything. Look at every single one of them, and soon you'll see there's no choice in what is essentially compulsive hive mind behavior.

Women give themselves a lot of credit for creating new life via pregnancy, often acting like they're doing it. But what they're really doing is putting up with the pain and suffering and experience of a natural process. It is nature that builds every cell in your body. We just have a bit of control over diet, exercise, habits and medical help, but really, the body is just building itself. We take way too much credit for ourselves. All we can do is just make nature's work easier.

It even goes to the choice to abort. Well, the need to choose that only exists because before that, there was a moment where the sex instinct overrode all choice. Unfortunately pregnancy after sex isn't a choice either.

So when they come to you and say "A woman has a choice..." or that "They chose a relationship..." or when you hear some celebrity spout the choice nonsense, start laughing. Choice doesn't exist nearly anywhere on the scale we think it does. Not by orders of magnitude. When they say my choice, just replace it with "My compulsive instinct" and you will free yourself from all illusion.

The obsession with choice has come from a subconscious knowing that we're not really in control of all that much, and we're not willing to admit it as this will make us look like we're slaves to our bodies and minds, which we are. Accepting that keeps us humble and actually choose for once. But you know, to admit the truth to ourselves is too hard. By selling the narrative of choice, all we've ever done is to delude ourselves while our instincts run riot.

Love, attraction and sex are compulsions - love is the mother of all compulsions. The only thing you can do is to choose if you want attraction or revulsion. Choose the right one, or else invariably, inevitably, you will be forced to deal with the other.

So when people say "You can't force someone to love you", they're not really talking about absolute choice, even if that's what they believe. No one has such power over their minds and bodies or relationships - if someone really did, they'd bypass the entire circus it takes to find love. What they really mean is, "Love isn't possible without setting your compulsive biological instincts free".

To that I'll add "within healthy boundaries".

You can only work with the forces of nature and keep those compulsions in healthy boundaries - you have only that much choice. All you can do is help nature do its job more easily and not get in the way. Ensure you are sufficiently attractive and lay down the boundaries, for which you might have to undo a lifetime of bad habits.

Now breaking old habits definitely requires you to make a choice, for once. Your conscious mind has to override old dysfunctional pathways and rewire your brain in the process. That's literally the only place in life where you actually choose. And you still wouldn't have chosen had you not been hit by a painful bolt of red lightning.

PS : Your biggest biological compulsion is your need for air. By far. Thank god breathing happens automatically.


Post Information
Title When they say "choice"... yeah right. The irony...
Author SKRedPill
Upvotes 78
Comments 24
Date 14 March 2020 05:54 PM UTC (3 months ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/355380
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/fimeq4/when_they_say_choice_yeah_right_the_irony/
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[–]DeakinFrost22 points23 points  (1 child) | Copy

The provider they acquire for stripping of resources is calculated, the Chad's and Tyrone's they impulsively cheat with is succumbing to the primal instincts. Removing unwanted children with the pill and birth control and then backing it up further with abortion creates a full-proof system that allows them to give into their impulses without fear or any real consequences.

The calculated fraud of the provider can be seen and proven through the rules they apply to the provider, awarding sex after gaining whatever the demand was, pushing them into marriage etc.

The impulsive side can be seen and proven through false rape allegations, "it just happened", alcohol abuse and excuses and of course just outright lies either face to face or by omission.

For me, and for my MGTOW Red Pill Brothers, the obviousness of the truth is transparently palpable. Independent thought is so rare for a female as well as rising above impulsive behavior. Thats why they all sound the same, act the same, and do the same things in the same sequence. I can't list one example of a female I know who hasn't done that.

[–]awakenedspirit12 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

SK pumping out original content during these trying times. Nice.

[–]Endorsed ContributorSKRedPill[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'll be honest with you. Almost everything that can be said about relationships has been said. But in spite of that, sometimes a new insight just happens to come along to punch you in the face. You would be surprised to know how many of my married friends and family totally fell for the "Her choice" thing. First thing is that these women defend the sisterhood (at least in public, in private they bitch about other women). Some of the men weren't too pleased with that. :)

Honestly, the real experts are busy out there creating the lives and relationships they want, playing the game for real. They came here, learnt their stuff, and then moved on, occasionally coming back to say Hi and share their experience, write books or blogs, or act as mods.

And that is how it should be.

So that leaves a lot of new guys whose posts and comments show they're just getting started.

[–]awakenedspirit12 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

totally agree. Im just trying to say the same thing in a different way. Experience is the best (even if painful) teacher

[–]ModernDao6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Great post.

Attraction is most definitely not a choice, but we can decide what, if any, actions to take based on that attraction.

Kind of like breathing--average humans have about two minutes to live, but every time we take a breath, the clock resets. We have to breathe, but meditation, as well as high intensity training, teaches us about the choices we have in how we choose to breathe. Short, shallow breaths, or deep, slow and through the nose.

[–]HeThatGreetsWithFire1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

A more nietzschean analysis through the red pill lens. Good post.

[–]The-Peter-Principle1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Choice is a bullshit word, and they know it. You fell for a re-framing tactic so much so that you then spent enough time to construct this post trying to logically argue against it.

The framing of choice was used to shift dialogue away from the topic which was the morality of cheating.

[–]Endorsed ContributorSKRedPill[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Oh I never fell for that even when even in the BP days. But honestly you will be surprised just how much of the human race is buying into this narrative now. Everyone now believes they are actually choosing their partners when almost all their behavior is driven by instinct.

"My choice" is a pillar of progressive fempowerment even when you exclude the cheating dimension of it. But that's not the point. The point is, they're steadily pushing the choice narrative further and further into the stages of a relationship, getting you to commit ever deeper for longer before the choice card is pulled out. That way there's maximum damage to you and maximum gain to them.

Pre marriage, when no one's really committed, this narrative sells like wildfire. So people still keep acting that way even after marriage, plus there are plenty of incentives for women who do. ;)

[–]Nicolas0631-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

That's right they have the choice and that's exactly why this can be liked with ethics and morality.

The choice are to stay with your partner, try to be decent with him/her or not.

Morality says that you shall always stay with your partner until death or maybe if he is really himself a bad person (cheating, beating you, drink all the time...)

When the woman say but I have the right to choose, she actually accept then 100% of the morality/ethics side of it, even if she try to use it as the opposite, to avoid any responsability for her behavior.

Having the choice include being responsible and assuming what choice you did. The good parts and the bad parts.

[–]bssftw0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's complete egotistical delusion. Human's are like plants, I know you like vanilla and someone else likes chocolate but that doesn't change the fact you have the exact same biology as every other woman, you like what every other woman on earth likes, gain some self awareness one time for me.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks, this was a well-timed dose of reality.

[–]bamelapeesly0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That was a wild read. Thank you for giving me some points to think about that I've honestly never thought about.

[–]BadBambino-1 points0 points  (7 children) | Copy

Being disciple is a choice, sure we can’t choose our inner feelings, but you can train it to feel less and less or more. Some ppl sex drive dies and hard to get it back. Explain to me the asexual ppl? Or The psychopaths? It depends on the scale u look at it. The different between us and most of the animals kingdom is that we have a choice ‘a will’ to revolt our slavery instincts and calculate the outcome using our mind instead of our feelings. If u look at it in a larger scale there is some things forced upon us, for instant we are stuck in this floating rock forever! Sure we have no choice over it(Unless we pay the huge debt, Which is in energy, that’s a different story).

Sorry for my english not my 1st language. What I meant to say, is not all choices are delusional, the only thing is delusional is the consequences of our actions that made to keep ppl in check! Somethings are force upon you by your fellow brothers. Besides the one with the strongest will power will bend where it pleased..

P.S. sometimes you can tell the girl is so into u! She finds u hot! But as soon as u failed a shit test, she ‘decided’ to leave u. Not because she doesnt find u hot anymore, she just made a choice not to fuck u. So maybe there is a misunderstanding what choices you talking about in the whatsapp group. Like I said, it depends on the scale.

[–]superstar94b0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

The woman could make a choice to become attracted to you again after you failed the shit test... The OP's point is that it's difficult for women to make that "choice" and they don't tend to date based on "choice". She could say, "oh, okay, that's fine that you failed and you're a pussy". But that won't happen. She's going to go on instinct. The choice has been made for her based on certain predetermined characteristics across the female population (largely biology). Even if she chose to date a guy she wasn't attracted to, she could not choose to actually be attracted to him. She may date him, but not actually be attracted to him. The OP is spot on in that regard. The only way to remotely get to a point where someone lives the kind of life they want is to have extreme discipline (as the OP mentioned). Without that, the concept of "choice" is a joke. People are floating in the wind with their predispositions.

[–]BadBambino1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

You can’t just catalog all women in one box. That’s just ignorant of u. Just as same u cant catalog men. It depends on the environment, upbringing, influences, experience, character developments, traits, trauma they went through and the mindset.

for the choices it depends on which scale u looking at. Some things u dont have controls over, and others yes. And they are things force upon u, like government laws, and physics. In other words made the choices for u.

You can only make choices on the things u have control off and it requires the force to make it or to bend it. Choices are not only made by feelings. Intelligent ppl make choices base on calculations and expectations closer to reality. That’s not rare, it depends on the situation and the danger u face. Only mindless animals make choices on their gut feelings or the ones who can’t solve complex problems that needs its nature instinct to interfere.

Do you know, you can choose to be sad for no particular reason? Hell, u can choose to fap even if u dont feel like it, and it will get up eventually. if u don’t agree with me, then explain to me asexual ppl? And the psychopaths that can fool any one of us?

The concept of choice is not a joke, without it we wouldn’t have made it far as human civilization. Is the choices that made us better and stronger. not our animal feelings thats just childish. Beside OP mix it up with things that needed a force and things that is chemical reactions. Choices made by the force ‘the will’ not by the feelings. Is like saying orange juice is not a water (wtf) thats two different subjects! Yes orange juice contacts water but is more complex than that. Just like some choices made possible because of feelings but not all choices are made by the feelings. Understand me? Only if u want to go in a deeper scale, then yes chemical reactions force upon u(made the choice for u) to feel that way! But in time when you know how to let go ‘not control’ the emotions inside u, only then u will understand how powerful can be the choices u made. And it doesn’t require extreme discipline wtf? It depends on the situations. It depends how far u let it to control u. U dont see adults arguing with children, they don’t let it go through them. They know they are only children therefore not feeling offended. Only the low classes feels that, if thats requires extreme discipline then I see we wasting time to argue. Have a good day 👋🏼

[–]superstar94b0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

A psychopath is particularly someone who doesn’t have a choice to be anything other than a psychopath until they have behavioral, neurological or hormonal therapy of some form. You literally just brought up a demographic of people who don’t have “choice” and simply act based on instinct, desire and predisposition. An asexual person is also acting on their lack of desire for sex. You can’t make them choose to want to have sex. They don’t want to. The woman who cheated in the OP’s message did not choose. She acted based on her desires. It’s not possible for her to “choose” to be more attracted to the guy she cheated on. That’s why she cheated on him. You can’t make me choose to want to fuck Rosie O’Donnell, or a whole host of other things.

Secondly, it does take extreme discipline for most people to accomplish what they actually “want” to. The OP mentioned that we always see people say they want to do one thing, but then they don’t actually do it, and often do the opposite (due to a lack of choice). That’s why we don’t have a ton of people walking around doing amazing shit. If it doesn’t take extreme discipline, people have the choice you mention, and it’s as easy as you say it is, why aren’t people actually doing it lol? Why don’t we have a bunch of Elon Musks running around solving complex issues (like they say they want to), getting rich, taking care of their bodies, and succeeding. Why isn’t it happening sense you just said it doesn’t require discipline.

[–]BadBambino1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

‘A psychopath is particularly someone who doesn’t have a choice to be anything other than a psychopath’

He have choices to hurt or not to hurt. His choices however don’t ran on feelings like the OP said

Asexual can make choices in life who to open up to without the sexuality feelings, OP pointed out that people make choices base on attraction and chemical reactions. Just like u said they make choices base on instinct, desire and predisposition. Which means by their feelings hahah. Which is wrong, healthy ppl should make a choice by logic and reason. Not by chemical reactions u feel inside ur body. That can back fire u or its a greedy thing to do..

As for the person who is cheating, there are people who cheat just to get revenge on their partner. Some dont matter how the other one looks like. For instant fucking his or her siblings or friends. And they are ppl who feels attraction towards others but dont cheat. You got ppl who watches porn for instant or just flirt

You mix choices with feelings thats not the same! Anything u have control on u can choose, the rest only delusional or force upon u

Who talked about being the ironman? Even waking up in the morning requires some minor discipline. Discipline is to teach ur body not to become lazy and to focus! The choices you have in ur hands is the forces u can use for u desire needs. Discipline only makes u stay on the right track. Because as u know everything requires time.

However the choices u make in ur head not ruled by the force is only delusional. The feelings u have inside u, is only delusional not choices. Ur mind is unlimited u can make things up and choose stuffs in ur head to extreme extend, not meaning shit when u dont have the force ‘the will power’ to make it happen! Imagining things is different then making an choice. You have A u have B both require force to make! Now u can say I choose C which is doing nothing. U didnt make a choice u just pass it!

Btw what is discipline but a small choices amount to big one.. and to reach like Elon Mask is not only required discipline, there is alot of things plays in the equations. Like the obstacles in front u, the opportunities, the challenges, the cooperation, the charms, the connections, luck, odds, money, power, talented, passionate, time, try and error, farm decisions and ect. You don’t measure success by how far u reach like the great general Patton Said “The test of success is not what you do when you are on top. Success is how high you bounce when you hit the bottom.”

[–]Endorsed ContributorSKRedPill[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Emotions are not choices, but reactions. They are not choosing really, their emotions have already made the outcome inevitable.

In emotional reality, there is very little separating the man and animal, just a thin veneer of sanity.

[–]BadBambino1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

My friend do u feel butthurted after the 100th rejection? 🤫 in time discipline cure emotions, and what inevitable? U always make decisions base on ur emotions? That’s immature.. the choices depends on the will power u got, not the emotions or the gut feelings. Alot of ppl ignore their gut feelings.

Now on the animal part, what separates us from the animals is the choices we make. Thin veneer or thick every animals experience different state of emotions or what the jungle calls it a survival instinct.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

How does this in any way negate what he said? Emotions are reactions. Choices are cognitive. You can argue about which wins in the end, but that doesn't change what they are.

[–]listeriosis69-2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy

Where are these unwritten universal laws that state what is and isn't allowed in a relationship. What's so bad about cheating. It's natural, monogamy is unatural

[–]Endorsed ContributorSKRedPill[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Fat is natural, fit isn't. True.

Healthy? Yeah, right as if you chose to be a fatass just to prove a point...

There are no universal laws in my relationships. But there are MY laws...

If you really want to know, may you be cheated upon and the painful truth be known to you in the family court. Life is a great teacher, but not a nice one. :)



You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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