The concept of Alpha males and those similar to it have nothing to do with women. It’s guys fantasizing about their perfect life.

DeuxPistolets · 2020-03-14T12:38:37+00:00

The concept of Alpha males and those similar to it have nothing to do with women. It’s guys fantasizing about their perfect life.

I have to disagree with what you state in your title. Male desirability (being “alpha”) runs on a continuum, much the same way females’ desirability does. The more “alpha” traits a man possesses, the more women will swoon over him. Any “fantasy” a male would have about “their perfect life” would be based on what women desire in reality. Yes, these “perfect men” are rare. However, they aren’t a “fantasy”. They’re real, and there are real women desiring them.

kradient · 2020-03-14T09:34:57+00:00

As I understand it the alpha/beta concept was originally supposed to be getting at something more nuanced, about the conflict average women face between passion and stability. Then the concept went through several years of the Internet telephone-game, and now the way many people use these terms, you may as well define alpha as “good” and beta as “bad”.

I disagree with some of the nuances of your post however, namely the assumption that only the top echelon of men (by physical attractiveness) can have casual sex, and I even disagree that it’s only the top 20%. Unless by “casual sex” you mean consistent flowing strings of one-night stands, but most men aren’t really looking for that lifestyle in itself (moreso just the sense of freedom that comes with having that option). We mostly want FWBs / fuckbuddies / relationships.

I also disagree that guys shouldn’t care whether someone they’re dating is fundamentally attracted to them. If it’s just a casual fling then whatever, but if this is someone you plan to spend the rest of your LIFE with, how the hell could you not care? It’s madness!

_lexxxi_98 · 2020-03-14T13:50:20+00:00

Like the few women who masturbate at the thought of Charles Manson.

Wait, I'm not the only one?

LillthOfBabylon · 2020-03-14T15:34:25+00:00

Whenever I read this kind of comments, I know it was written by a woman or by an incel.

Your concept of alpha male cannot be farther from truth. You cannot write Trump and alphamale in the same sentence.

Research a little bit more.

RedPillMissionary · 2020-03-14T16:05:01+00:00

Okay here are two stats: 80% of divorces are filed by women, and the number one cause of divorce cited is financial problems.

So women are interested in money

Now look at the record sales of Fifty Shades Of Grey. It’s a story of a man sexually abusing a woman, treating her like his fwb, and women brought so many copies it was a record breaking series. Serial killers in jail receive love letters from women who hear about them too.

So women like bad men

Research shows women score men’s attractiveness higher when they know his height and salary.

So the ultimate “chad” is a tall bad boy with money

Honourandapenis · 2020-03-14T10:07:28+00:00

The concept of the alpha male is inherently flawed anyway as it's based on the observed behavior of male wolves kept together in captivity, essentially forming wolf prison gangs. It's been discredited by the author of the original paper as it bares absolutely no resemblance to how wolves actually act when in their natural habitat. So I see no reason to aspire to be Top Prison Bitch of Wolves, it's frankly absurd.

LillthOfBabylon · 2020-03-14T12:45:26+00:00

Watch for 30 seconds and feel they have women figured out? Lmao stopped reading after that.

This debate sub or the red pill is many things. The above is not one of them, regardless of your feelings towards it

ILikeToArgueALot · 2020-03-14T13:19:02+00:00

Alphas do exist. But the alpha in a room can change. All it means is the man with "the most of ____ in a room"

You can see this behaviour in men very often. The man who is richer, more attractive or more confidents tends to take over and lead the conversation in a group. Men with less tend to get more quiet around these men. But when that man leaves the room the quiet guy now perks up because hes now the alpha of the room.

Its interesting to watch mens behaviour shrink when around assertive men. Its threatening to their ego.

Alphas exist as simply whichever man has the most assets and is able to channel that mentally and take charge.

Social hierachy is automatically built into humans from caveman days to figure out who the leader was.

rhyth7 · 2020-03-14T17:40:27+00:00

Everytime I show a guy what my ideal man looks like they call him a pussy because that's not what their idea of manliness looks like. And they always tell me that what I desire is wrong and it's like nope, sorry I'm not into cavemen who don't groom or bathe, I don't need a lumberjack with a jaw the size of Texas. I'm just really not into rugged men.

LadyFerretQueen · 2020-03-14T13:50:51+00:00

Whenever I talk with these guys I end up thinking... have they ever spoken to a woman?

petechamp · 2020-03-14T12:20:41+00:00

The alpha male is in the eye of the beholder. People have to different degrees an innate way of seeing the world, some more hierarchical than others, some more authority seeking. Rank based views of others is born from experienced inferiority and sometimes it's the household 'authority' figure who sets the future expectations for schema of what defines this ranking system in future. Where this isn't the case it's usually politics, religion, or seeking other doctrine's of authority to remove the need to self determine and take the world as they see it. Life is a lot simpler when you follow an authority figures rules.

DeepCrimsonPill · 2020-03-14T14:46:28+00:00

This is a rambling post that doesn't acknowledge the nuance in theory and life. Perhaps some Pillers are too rigid in their thinking, but nothing said here disproves of the attraction women have to power and status.

Hell, alot of them just cherry pick which women they watch. Like the few women who masturbate at the thought of Charles Manson.

It is silly to think all women are hybristophiliacs because of these cases. It is not silly to think that, because most hybristophiliacs are female, that this indicates a difference between men and women, and this represents a corruption of female drives men don't really have.

Alpha male: Now Alpha Male’s being define as guy who can get hot girl without the promise of committment or money. That definition even excludes most celebrities and rich dudes.

This is caring more about definitions than the actual truth of the matter, like how people keep nagging that Alpha male wolves don't exist in the wild. Neither of these things matter. Instead of asking yourself what is Alpha, ask yourself WHY women are attracted to celebrities and rich guys, and how these attractions effect intersexual dynamics.

Women do not care about this Alpha/Beta concept outside trashy erotica and werewolf fanfic.

These "trashy eroticas" sell millions of copies each year, inclunding the single greatest selling piece of fiction of all time. While you are not going to be FA if you're not a billionaire, to say they say nothing about female sexual behavior is daft. People don't consume products at random.

This wouldnt be a problem except Alpha-Beta is a false dirchonomy. So if a guy isnt Alpha, he’s automatically beta.

You would have to be dealing with some pretty grug-bait Pillers if you hear this. But while there are multiple hierarchies and sliding scales, in general the closer you are to a man who bears all sorts of different strengths confidently, the better.

So when I hear guys say “Of course women will be with short guys, but theyre not really ATTRACTIVE to short dudes”. I cant sympathize and I understand why a guy would care. If women are still women willing to love and screw short guys, then who cares. Then I realize a guy would care if he wants to be worshipped like a male supermodel.

The problem is, being short can be such a debilitating penalty, they can have long droughts where they can't get a girlfriend. If women at least sympathized with this situation, I would be fine. But even getting basic understanding is like pulling teeth out of women. Furthermore, why shouldn't I want to be worshipped like a supermodel? Either by one woman or many? Granted, you can't change your height, but if you can reach other goals that can get you that reaction, that would be a huge upside for most of our lives. Now, you can't have the perfect life, but the Red Pill gives you the advice to reach there that the mainstream does not.

PPD-Angel · 2020-03-14T09:28:47+00:00

[removed]

The_FatGuy_Strangler · 2020-03-14T13:33:05+00:00

I would consider an “Alpha” someone with a type “A” personality, someone who takes charge and desires to be a leader. This person thinks for themselves and isn’t easily manipulated.

87AudreyHorne · 2020-03-14T16:14:26+00:00

I think it's also related to how people respond to their lack of satisfaction by romanticizing a different time and way of life. Like in good old days when they were stronger and tougher and more free, in touch with nature... and today this unhealthy society keeps us unhappy so it only we can go back to our "original selves" we will see we still have it in us. (This is obviously less appealing to women who dont have any great heroic ideals to take from, i think most of us agree we wouldnt be happier "being in touch with our nature" and having like 20 kids by the age of 35 and then dying)

But back to my point, most men dont have very exciting lives, they are safe, they had a sheltered life, they work some job, get bitched at by their boss, and are not that great at anything and no one thinks they're very important. However if you think this is a result of the wrong society and they are actually warriors and leaders trapped and restrained by civilization gone wrong, than it's less depressing than just accepting this is probably the best time to be alive so far and they'd actually probably hate the good old days too.

I noticed how these guys who are so into being alpha just end up dramatizing everything. Like they had some meaningless interaction with their girlfriend but it was really them being leaders, or they go to gym after work as some sign of incredible self discipline, or they go for a walk in the woods and are now one with nature.. I think it just motivates them to go through their mundane shit without feeling totally stupid.

MoonshoeBooBoos · 2020-03-14T17:31:54+00:00

Agree with most of this.

I think a lot of these guys compare themselves to who she pairs up with next and magnify their insecurities by inversing them in their successor. If the guy is on the shorter side and the next guy is taller, this can be perceived as "I knew she wanted a taller guy". Works with taller / skinnier / stronger / more attractive / richer / more fun / etc. At the same time the guy who got dumped magnifies his successor's "failures" and magnifies his own successes.

For example, when I got dumped, my ex went back to a guy she dated before me who was in better shape, taller and more fun in the sense that he liked to do a ton of all the outdoor stuff she liked like hiking. He also has no career aspirations and works doing near min-wage work at an airport and from what I saw of his online presence was fairly intelligent but somewhat argumentative in favor of progressive politics. Half my brain was despondent that she left me for "Chad" and of course she did because she only cared about those things and was able to walk away from a relationship that I had thought meant the world to both of us. The other half rallied in my favor that I can't believe she'd leave me for this "loser" when I made 6 figures and they'd both likely be statistics in the American income and lack of retirement metrics for the rest of their lives.

When I was able to view both previous boyfriends women dated and the ones they dated after me as just regular guys instead of the "toxic assholes" women would tell me they were or "loser Chad who is just gonna pump n dump" I would view them as I think I grew up a little.

I would argue though that my perception still views women's desires as amorphous. The seem to have a concept of what they're looking for in chunks of time (for the non-party girl 3-4 years) and it changes as they age. I think this is the main cause of the phrase "watch what they say, not what they do" because to men it looks inconsistent.

Don't get me wrong, all people change over time and what we may have wanted out of life can vary with experience and novelty but a lot of men have been raised by their mothers to treat women a certain way and were told that's what they were really looking for / how to be good husband material. When they try to emulate and incorporate that behavior into their person then attract a woman and she changes her mind after several years it can be devastatingly confusing, especially when it happens multiple times. It makes it seem like the game is rigged so you want to turn to a new set of rules like TRP stuff to understand what's happening whether it's true or not.

NiceGuyNumber4 · 2020-03-14T18:05:33+00:00

Men compete; women choose. Women choose the winners. By definition, most men are not winners. "Alphas" are winners. What makes someone a winner varies by the competition, but in what we call the "sexual marketplace" most of these competitions are of genetics and/or status.

LillthOfBabylon · 2020-03-14T09:52:58+00:00

I could do the same thing. “By observing male prisons, I have learned that all men love being violent and love raping each other when no one’s watching. Watch what man do, not what they say.”

This point is incredibly dumb. Pointing to female behavior in the dating market to understand how women act in the dating market is cogent.

Pointing to how men act in a place where specifically the worst portion of society get sent, and where there are no actual women around is not relevant to men generally nor does it have anything to do with dating whatsoever.

I honestly don’t want to get too far into the mire of your post because it’s riddled with bad reasoning like this. I use the term “reasoning” lightly here. This really reads like you put zero actual thought into anything and are just meanderingly putting down whatever knee jerk stream of conscious points leap into your brain without actually checking their validity first.

tickledpic · 2020-03-14T11:37:17+00:00

Alpha and beta is about your position in a certain aspects of life. You can be an alpha in a business setting while being a beta on a golf course.

Here we are talking about sexuality. An alpha is a man who can get women to sleep with him purely based on his sex appeal. A beta is someone whos sex appeal is not enough and he needs to provide other things.

A mans sex appeal is not based only in looks. Women get turned on also by a mans behaviour (dominant, smooth, sexually explicit, etc.). So stating that only hot men can be alphas is false.

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Khaba-rovsk · 2020-03-14T15:20:45+00:00

It’s guys fantasizing about their perfect life.

Yep its like james bond fantasy. They dont excist as they are portraied.

LotBuilder · 2020-03-14T15:52:38+00:00

You are all over the place. I agree the alpha/beta talk is way overblown but we all know one when we see one. You are either laying pipe to top tier girls or not. It’s not subjective.

MrHerbSherman · 2020-03-14T17:37:14+00:00

“Alpha” in TRP simply means sexually attractive to women

“Alpha male” is a sexually attractive male

It is jargon and it isn’t being used in its common sense

Anyway wouldn’t learning to develop those traits just be a step towards a BETTER life rather than a FANTASY life? Like why do you have to take it to a ridiculous extreme

RRBeachFG2 · 2020-03-14T20:23:05+00:00

You are right the "Alpha Male" title is a little bit of a misnomer. As it is obvious that people just don't walk around calling themselves Alpha. It is a slang term or nickname that is given basically to strangers from other strangers, I think you may be taking it a little to literally.

LillthOfBabylon · 2020-03-14T20:41:51+00:00

Not true. You can see that by how women always assume they can do better than the man they matched with or is showing interest to them.

An alpha male doesn't have (nor it needs) a well defined structure. An alpha male is an archetype built on the premise that modern people are individualistic and prefer to disregard people for their flaws assuming they're special enough to catch a better one.

If people (not only women, men too) didn't feel compelled to hierarchize and select partners, there'd be no such concept. The concept itself is a result of selection and people being ranked by the collective of society, from the sum of individual choices to the cultural, holistic norms of such a group.

Sid_Insidious · 2020-03-14T22:21:23+00:00

Im constantly seeing this pattern where guys can never agree on what the hell an Alpha male or a Chad is. Nor are they interested in hearing what women have to say about the matter.

“Watch what women do, not what they say.”

If women are saying one thing and doing another, isn't that a rational approach? ;-)

But guys dont even watch. They just look for 30 seconds and then think they have women figured out. Hell, alot of them just cherry pick which women they watch. Like the few women who masturbate at the thought of Charles Manson.

It's not even up for debate that women mate and marry up and across social dominance hierachies and men mate across and down, given an adequate sample size. Not what Suzy or Jim did. A population.

Alpha male: Now Alpha Male’s being define as guy who can get hot girl without the promise of committment or money.

Loose and perhaps incomplete, but a decent definition. And here is where the problems start - the definitions.

That definition even excludes most celebrities and rich dudes. For this to work, the guy has to be a bare minimum of extremely hot. Havent we already declared that women only find 20% of guys decent looking? So we’re now talking about the like highest echelon of good looking dudes.

This is where the definitions fall short, and subtypes of Alphas need to be explored and explained. Allow me...

Social Alpha. Top man in regards to social status, wealth and power. Say, 5% of men.

Genetic Alpha: Top man in regards to looks and fitness. Say, 5% of men.

Ultra Alpha (Christian Grey): Top man socially and genetically. 5% x 5% = a 0.25% man.

Women do not care about this Alpha/Beta concept outside trashy erotica and werewolf fanfic.

Women want us to believe their choices in partners is about "muh feelz" and "muh chemistry" but your attraction is based on specific indicators that are, again, provable by science. When pictures the same men are shown to women in controlled studies, the same man with a higher reported income is ranked more attractive. I hear what you are saying, but this is the part where the "watch what women do" comes in...

This wouldnt be a problem except Alpha-Beta is a false dirchonomy. So if a guy isnt Alpha, he’s automatically beta.

Agreed about the false dichotomy, but let's stick to alpha's because betas come in different types and there is talk about these omegas and sigmas and god help us all...

Also, it seems to be this premise that women can only be happy if they’re with their ideal man.

Actually, the premise there is that women can actually become and remain happy. ;)

The ideal man is suppose to be IDEAL. Most women are well-aware he’s not real. Just like most men arent chasing the ideal woman. Ideally, men want women with big ass and big tits, but men will screw or marry women with decent amount or even small clevage.

I always did have a weakness for nerd girls with dark eyes who are wickedly intelligent, smaller breasts, hips that stick out a bit, shorter... bonus points for rocking a short haircuit. (Points deducted if said haircut is dyed purple.) I will conceded there are "optimal" female and male forms, and the T&A Marilyn Monroe figure is a thing, but not all men are after a specific body shape, nor are all women. But let's say this, are people who are 100 or 200 pounds overweight going to do as well? No. There are things that tend to improve ones success OVERALL in the market and things that do not. But as my statement here led with, individual preferences vary considerably.

So when I hear guys say “Of course women will be with short guys, but theyre not really ATTRACTIVE to short dudes”. I cant sympathize and I understand why a guy would care. If women are still women willing to love and screw short guys, then who cares. Then I realize a guy would care if he wants to be worshipped like a male supermodel.

I think people want to have good sex, and maybe have good relationships and be nice to one another and not get hurt. Sounds pretty blue pill for a red pill guy, but I think MOST people want that. We're not getting it. Now, here we are in PPD, asking why that is the case.

Kind of like how some black SJWs are mad that black superstars typically want white women. If she merely wanted love, she wouldnt care. But no, she’s mad she’s not living that kind of fantasy life. So now she goes around miserable and complaining how life’s unfair because she doesnt have a shot with Jordan Peele.

Telling people who they should be attracted to is not just gross, but frightening in an Orwellian way. If looks were a class distinction, then certain left-wing ideologies would have people refusing to associate sexually with "lesser" looking people a form of discrimination. Here's the kicker. In the mating arena, looks ARE a form of class distinction. WICKED!!

bonusfruit · 2020-03-15T01:48:15+00:00

Why do these pithy surface level 'take downs' of complex concepts become so popular

LillthOfBabylon · 2020-03-15T17:19:48+00:00

[deleted]

Nu_Guy · 2020-03-17T10:13:27+00:00

Lets use men's attraction as an example.

While most men would not agree on who the most attractive women is, there are basic traits that most would agree upon. Most would rather C cups over A cups. Etc.

Same with women, there are qualities about a male that most like. Most of the time the guy they agree upon is the leader of the pack.

DontNeedMuchMoney · 2020-03-14T09:10:37+00:00

I don't agree with your definition of alpha. That's just a side effect of being an alpha male, I know alpha guys that are ugly and beta guys that are extremely attractive

Throughawayman80808 · 2020-03-14T10:25:24+00:00

For this to work, the guy has to be a bare minimum of extremely hot.

Are no men having casual NSA sex at all without having to pay or court women?

sthlmtrdr · 2020-03-14T11:24:20+00:00

"alpha" is a bunch of different personality traits really, where a man can have one or more of these traits. It's not static, one can acquire these traits or proceed to lose them.

I guess "alpha male" is a guy who got a lot of these traits in his personality.

revente · 2020-03-14T12:55:43+00:00

Yeah they all fantasize about being Dan Bilzerian whose lifestyle is just a money laundering scheme for his fathers white collar frauds and all the sex he has has been paid for.

All the so called instagram chads are creepy betas and omegas whose features work well with facetune and in real life situations are easily outcompeted with fun more dominant guys.

reluctantly_red · 2020-03-14T16:08:34+00:00

It has everything to do with women. An Alpha (or whatever you want to call him) is the guy who turns women's heads when he walks in the room. He's the guy who women hope will approach.

Women, through their behavior and desire, define who is and who isn't that guy.

Captain_of_Skene · 2020-03-14T09:58:01+00:00

Every day I'm realising more and more that it's largely an extremely low body fat percentage (sub 10%) that makes a man highly sexually attractive to women

Provided he meets basic height and looks cutoffs of course

Low body fat and some muscularity but not an insane amount, tall and not ugly is all you need to be

It's as simple as that

DangZagnut · 2020-03-14T13:20:26+00:00

You do know those are memes right? Concepts of discussion? They aren’t real.

We use them as illustrative purposes. There is not an actual guy named Chad that all the women are fucking.

You took that shit seriously?

LazerArray · 2020-03-14T09:13:00+00:00

Alpha male can be interpreted in many different ways.m and can change depending on the state of society. To say they have nothing to do with women isn’t true. The common trait everyone associates with alphas is that the get a lot of women. Women, by being attracted in the first place, are involved in determining woh is and isn’t an alpha male.

Also, who doesn’t fantasize about what they want. You say that as if women don’t fantasize about the life they want and the men they want.

ZlayerXZ · 2020-03-14T11:09:21+00:00

The answer to that question is found in men sincerity with themselves and their own experiences, we (men) all live with sexually liberated women, who has been having fun sex with someone (otherwise they would be virgin), so the question is very simple: Was it you??

Does-it.

abolish_the_divine · 2020-03-14T11:29:46+00:00

i am the alpha and the omega

Title	The concept of Alpha males and those similar to it have nothing to do with women. It’s guys fantasizing about their perfect life.
Author	LillthOfBabylon
Upvotes	87
Comments	209
Date	March 14, 2020 6:43 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/fiecjz/the_concept_of_alpha_males_and_those_similar_to/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-concept-of-alpha-males-and-those-similar-to-it.355474 https://theredarchive.com/post/355474