TheRedArchive needs help
With 700,000+ posts and 16,000,000+ comments archived, and new Red Pill content being added every week, keeping TheRedArchive alive and discoverable to everyone is starting to become very costly. As a 20-year-old student who just moved out and is living independently for the first time, keeping TheRedArchive alive is beginning to cost me much more than I thought.

Therefore, if you appreciate the website, have gained a lot of knowledge and insight from it, and want to show your appreciation, you can do so by donating any amount that you want via the options below. The money will be used on the expensive monthly host bill and any future maintenance of the website.
Thank you, and I wish you all a successful 2021 and a good luck with achieving your goals and dreams!

Best, /u/dream-hunter

If a man were able to change the bible would that prove they are the 2nd coming of Jesus?

Reddit View
March 25, 2020
1 upvotes

This might sound like a random question, but it's not. The reason why comes from a hypothesis proposing sweeping retroactive changes to reality are happening. Known commonly as the Mandela Effect that some Christians fully believe in and share their warnings of it on places like YouTube such as the EYA YouTube channel or other social media groups like Facebook, Discord and Twitter. Before I go on let me say it's not my intent to undermine Jesus, God or the work of the Holy Spirit. Saying that because in order to explain this people are likely going to be offended.

If you don't already know what the Mandela Effect is then I will offer a common claim for an example. Some that watched the JFK assassination remember there being a total of 4 people in the car including the driver. However if you look at the video on YouTube or anywhere else it's not a 2 rows of seating car, but 3 rows of seats with a glass divider and the total number of people in the car is 6 not 4. From the point of view of the person that remembers 4 seats reality one day changed and all official records they can find changed to reflect there being 6 seats in that car. For everyone else however it's always been 6 seats in that car and their memory of the event reflects this.

Rightly or wrongly as one might foresee it's extremely easy to write this entire thing off as being bad or manufactured memory. However I'm going to focus on a hypothesis often, but not always cited for being the cause of this retroactive reality change at the core of the Mandela Effect. That being hyper advanced Quantum entanglement tech driven by massive Quantum computing systems. Sort of like the Quantum computing system Google claimed has "Quantum supremacy" over standard computing systems. Or the D-wave Quantum computers that have made tech headlines over the years.

Now I'm going to introduce how Quantum entanglement in an oversimplified way matters. The basic idea behind it is that two particles can interact on the Quantum level and instantly become perfect mirrors of each other when entangled no matter the distance between them. In a simple visual of what happens it's like if you had an orange and then someone in China had a lemon that instantly changed into an orange just because it got tangled up with it via a string you can't see. That would be cool and perhaps scary right. Well that's "spooky action at a distance" that people have tried creating in experiments for many years.

If this effect could be scaled up and controlled by humans then possible applications are endless. In fact independent labs are testing this and claiming Quantum entanglement can be done.

Sources below:

Link 1: https://www.livescience.com/2000-atoms-in-two-places-at-once.html

Link 2: https://www.livescience.com/quantum-memory-entangled-far.html

Link 3: https://physicsworld.com/a/quantum-secrets-can-be-teleported-and-shared-between-multiple-senders-and-receivers/

At this point I'm guessing your saying that sounds unbelievable. And yes even the man best known for writing the book on quantum mechanics Einstein hated everything about it. However the engineers that actually work on designing modern high end chip sets in computers, smart phones and other devices must contend with Quantum tunnelling that's included in quantum mechanics. So the core theory behind it can't be easily discarded whole sale.

Moving on to what I mean by possible applications I first suggest a Quantum wireless point to point internet that is no longer limited by radio range like WiFi due to Quantum entanglement having unlimited range. The one I am focusing on though is being to entangle a substantial amount of particles in objects. This would be much harder to pull off, but with the exponential growth in tech we have seen I don't think it's impossible.

Now you might ask what do I mean by entangling a substantial number of particles in an object. Let's just say you own a 500 page history text book on world war two. The hard cover, paper pages and even the ink used to print words is made of atoms composed of particles such as protons, electrons and neutrons.

By entangling 2,000 atoms one can't expect to see actual change to occur. However once you can entangle trillions upon trillions of atoms on a quantum level doors begin to open. If you could actually entangle enough atoms together it's possible you could remove the ink that created a period in that history text book. Then if you entangled way more atoms together change a letter and then whole sentence structures. If this technology was combined with deep learning AI you could easily use the AI to detect patterns across books along with other objects and change every world war two book in existence if Quantum entanglement technology became powerful enough.

I realize it's a massive leap in difference, but then so is the spending power of a independent lab vs say the US government or if we had a one world government willing to throw it's entire weight into developing this tech. I don't expect people to simply believe this is possible just because I said it could be.

However I am going to repeat the question in the title because I want to understand the theology behind biblical infallibility:

If a man showed up with power to preform wonders and change the words in the bible you have at home would that be proof he was God or the 2nd coming of Jesus if that's what he offered as proof?

The theological reason I ask is because of Amos 8:11-12 that speaks of not being able to find hearing the word of God due to a famine that effects it. If the bible for the most part didn't exist outside a few priest having one people really couldn't read until 400 or so years ago and nothing prevents them from being burned or having people put out new versions that play very loose with translation. Why can't other things happen to the bible in the future?

Especially if there is going to be a massive deception where even the elect would be fooled if that was possible. I've thought about this and honestly I can't think of a better way for the Anti-Christ to fool Christians than being able to change the bibles sitting on their desk at home.

I know some might say God wouldn't allow that to happen to God's word, but John 1:1 says Jesus is the word of God and so I truly don't understand where God promises to protect the modern bible from attack or even destruction.

Again I'm not trying to disrespect anyone's belief's here or undermine what Jesus did on the cross, but I did feel compelled to open respectful discussion on this issue.


Post Information
Title If a man were able to change the bible would that prove they are the 2nd coming of Jesus?
Author Torn4_025
Upvotes 1
Comments 12
Date 25 March 2020 07:04 PM UTC (11 months ago)
Subreddit askRPC
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/357659
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askRPC/comments/fow1aq/if_a_man_were_able_to_change_the_bible_would_that/
Similar Posts
Comments

[–]Red-Curious2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

I've been fascinated by this type of stuff for a while. But don't get too hung up on it either. For context, I do a lot of writing in my spare time, including a fantasy series where quantum entanglement is the underlying premise for the way a relic works that the main character finds, allowing him to see things from the other end of the universe. I worked alongside a physicist to help me figure out how other relics in subsequent books (I'm part way through book 3) would function if realistically possible, given known concepts of physics and quantum mechanics.

All that to say, I track with everything you're saying and knew it before you wrote it. Props for the shared interest.


But the Bible is not the ink on the page. It is defined by the original writings of the original manuscripts as originally intended by the original authors. If I wanted, I could steal the earliest known manuscripts, use some high-tech lasers to shave off ink particles and replace them, then return the manuscript. We don't necessarily need quantum mechanics to do that (though, admittedly, there's always risk to the documents to do this). But the reality is that this would just be falsifying the manuscript, not actually changing Scripture. It's tampering with evidence.

I'm a lawyer. So let's imagine I'm representing a guy whose wife is accusing him of physical abuse. She CGIs a video from her phone to make it look like he hit her. Now, he had shown the video to dozens of witnesses before she does this, and even to the judge at a prior hearing before the final trial. The new video comes out and the judge sees the difference and the witnesses all testify, "Yeah, that video has been doctored. The original video was nothing like that." Further, the wife testifies on the stand, "Yes, I changed the video, and therefore it is now obvious under my changed video that he hit me." How's that going to play out in court?

Changing the ink on the page doesn't prove any more than adding CGI to a video. Moreover, if a person then admitted to changing the ink on the page to "prove" their divinity, that very admission acknowledges the non-divinity of the act. Why not just go back in time and actually change the historical events, if you're truly divine? Surely God has that kind of power.

So no. Changing ink on a page would not prove anything about one's divinity. It only proves one's ability to change ink on a page.


But what you're really asking is: how can we trust the translations we have? How do we know someone hasn't already modified Scripture to cause us to believe things the original authors never intended?

The answer is, of course: you can't know. But God has never valued knowledge highly. In fact, much of Scripture is written to de-emphasize the value of knowledge. This was very difficult for me as I used to take such great pride in the fact that I knew more than virtually everyone else around me. At some point I had to set that aside and recognize that God prizes faith over knowledge. I'm now okay with that.

Also, this whole setup doesn't do squat to address the Holy Spirit in all of this. It's not merely that "God wouldn't allow that to happen" - it's that the Holy Spirit is in us and proves through the fruit of existing Scripture its authenticity. But at the end of the day, it still comes down to a simple question: do you believe the Bible, as we know it (at least insofar as the earliest existing manuscripts represent it) is true and that you will allow that truth to radically change the way you live, or do you believe that the chance of its modification on substantive issues is high enough that the whole thing needs to be scrapped and there's no basis for faith at all? No one can decide that for you, nor can we logically persuade you, nor should we, if we are to approach ministry as Paul did in 1 Cor. 2. You've got to figure that out for yourself.

[–]Torn4_025[S] -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

First of all having read your post on the main sub I must say this wasn't the response I expected from you. In a number of ways actually. I never would have guessed you wrote fiction or would have defined the bible in such a way.

However I do have some questions about what you said.

But the Bible is not the ink on the page. It is defined by the original writings of the original manuscripts as originally intended by the original authors. If I wanted, I could steal the earliest known manuscripts, use some high-tech lasers to shave off ink particles and replace them, then return the manuscript. We don't necessarily need quantum mechanics to do that (though, admittedly, there's always risk to the documents to do this). But the reality is that this would just be falsifying the manuscript, not actually changing Scripture. It's tampering with evidence.

Using even a high tech laser on scrolls could likely be detected though. However I get your point and follow this example.

I'm a lawyer. So let's imagine I'm representing a guy whose wife is accusing him of physical abuse. She CGIs a video from her phone to make it look like he hit her. Now, he had shown the video to dozens of witnesses before she does this, and even to the judge at a prior hearing before the final trial. The new video comes out and the judge sees the difference and the witnesses all testify, "Yeah, that video has been doctored. The original video was nothing like that." Further, the wife testifies on the stand, "Yes, I changed the video, and therefore it is now obvious under my changed video that he hit me." How's that going to play out in court?

I understand the basic point, but I'm not sure who the guy, wife, witnesses and judge represent. That and ton's of people now dismiss eye witness accounts because human memory is often thought of as less value than other evidence.

Changing the ink on the page doesn't prove any more than adding CGI to a video. Moreover, if a person then admitted to changing the ink on the page to "prove" their divinity, that very admission acknowledges the non-divinity of the act. Why not just go back in time and actually change the historical events, if you're truly divine? Surely God has that kind of power.

If the anti-Christ really could use Quantum entanglement to it's full penitential he could make it appear as though he did. 99.9% of people honestly couldn't tell the difference between him going back in time to actually change a historical event and using Quantum entanglement to edit online data bases, history books and even other objects as needed to make it appear as though he did. This fit's almost like a glove to how the bible says the anti-Christ will think to change time and laws.

But let's say it's not quite that cut and dry. What happens if over say 20 years people working for a yet to be unveiled Anti-Christ use quantum entanglement to slowly make small changes to the bible and do just enough damage to cause people to fall away in mass. And then edit wording so the Anti-Christ would seem to be God if you believed what the edited bible said.

Then you get a situation where Christians will be raised by a corrupted version and every time a "witness" says X verse never said Y other Christians will just say it's always been that way & dismiss them as nut cases or even heretics doing the devils work.

But what you're really asking is: how can we trust the translations we have? How do we know someone hasn't already modified Scripture to cause us to believe things the original authors never intended?

Okay so you know how people will say "My friend needs help about X issue" and it's really them. When I said other Christians believe the Mandela Effect it's what I actually believe as well even though I can't really prove it or fully explain it.

The JFK example I used is because in part that I remember only 4 people in JFK's car when he was shot. If you go onto a YouTube video showing him getting shot it's likely you will come across comments of people saying they remember 4 not 6 were in the car.

Now getting to scripture I remember reading Isaiah 11:6 many years ago and thinking how nice it was for a lion to lay down with a lamb. If you read this verse now it begins by saying the wolf shall dwell with the lamb. There are a lot of people that remember how this verse started the same way I do and now you can not find a hard copy bible of any well known translation that begins Isaiah 11:6 by saying the Lion shall dwell with the lamb or any such wording like this. This example is often cited because it's suggested to represent a symbolic attack where the Lion (God) is being replaced with the wolf (Satan) next to the lamb (God's people).

It's not the only scripture that is claimed to be effected by Quantum devices/pollution. There are other Christians that have posted videos of verses being different than notes written in them like this. Or grammar errors like this. You can look up other content on the Mandela Effect if you want to investigate this for yourself. There's quite a lot of junk out there however focusing on logo's and movie title's that might lead a person to think it only effects small unimportant things.

Also, this whole setup doesn't do squat to address the Holy Spirit in all of this. It's not merely that "God wouldn't allow that to happen" - it's that the Holy Spirit is in us and proves through the fruit of existing Scripture its authenticity. But at the end of the day, it still comes down to a simple question: do you believe the Bible, as we know it (at least insofar as the earliest existing manuscripts represent it) is true and that you will allow that truth to radically change the way you live, or do you believe that the chance of its modification on substantive issues is high enough that the whole thing needs to be scrapped and there's no basis for faith at all? No one can decide that for you, nor can we logically persuade you, nor should we, if we are to approach ministry as Paul did in 1 Cor. 2. You've got to figure that out for yourself.

I believe the Bible is fundamentally true on core issues. I didn't write this post because I doubt the existence of God. I know it sounds like the Mandela Effect has caused me to be shaken in faith. Oddly enough though my belief in quantum pollution effecting the Bible is sometimes all that held my faith together. When I wrote the post I was expecting a whole lot of "No that can't ever happen" and it makes me feel better to get deeper answers than that.

In writing this post I chose to focus on the non-spiritual workings of this topic. But now I'll try my best to address the spiritual end of this. Because what you said about God valuing faith higher than knowledge is a feeling I've had and didn't know exactly how to put into words.

In modern times society worships knowledge and idolizes our information networks. People favor "educated city dwellers" more than "dumb trailer hicks" even when less intelligent people are kind and respectful people. As such more and more we see those claiming evil is good fueled by those said to be wise and that have more knowledge than others.

In a world falling into ever deeper rebellion against God and holding Humanity's knowledge stored on the internet, in books and our educated experts as why there is no God above. Would not the prime delusion be allowing the anti-Christ control over all of it including the bible so those with just knowledge would be separated from those with faith?

In the situation I've laid out people would need to pick between a changed bible and the Holy Spirit. The world is going to look quite different when there is a man that speaks against the most high and people believe no one could kill or make war with him. If when people opened their bible's it no longer had the mark of the beast, warnings of the Anti-Christ's or other such things. Many would not trust what they remember and fall away. People would say it's God's knowledge and that must be right over what those with faith have in their heart. Romans 2:15 and what you have said about the value of faith is actually why I think it's likely such a divide will be created.

If this interest you enough I suggest praying to God about it and trusting the Holy Spirit. Because really I know how much of a leap this all sounds. I mean really it sounds impossible and the reality of it can feel quite terrifying. More importantly however it's a spiritual matter that you should take to God before having a change of mind on this subject.

[–]Red-Curious0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I still don't see how all these concepts are connecting for you. My underlying point hasn't changed: just because someone changes what the ink on the page says doesn't mean they can change what the original authors wrote. To do that, you'd have to be able to travel through time. And I'm pretty confident Einstein proved that backwards time travel is impossible (at best, one could travel forward in time at a slower pace than the rest of reality).

As for the end times stuff, I'm a partial preterist, so most of your conversation is lost on me as I believe a lot of it already happened. So, there's little point talking about a future anti-christ.

[–]Torn4_025[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

As I said it's hard to explain it all. Part of my point was that most people could not tell the difference between time travel and retroactively changing things on a quantum level. Not that I actually think it's time travel into the past.

As for your belief's on the end times I read the book of Revelations and studied the different view points on those who think there is a future anti-Christ and those who don't. While I find the argument for preterism/partial perterist interesting it's not what I personally believe.

[–]OrlandoTheAxe1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Being able to alter something without physically interacting with it and without regard to distance are things that have long been reserved to God's domain, but I don't think that attaining these capabilities would elevate man to God's level. Ultimately, we would still only be able to alter existing matter that God created, which is something we've been able to do for a long time (welding, chemistry, machining, etc.). We would not be able to create matter from nothing, and we would still be subject to God's will.

 

In the same way, we can change the Biblical text that God gave us, but we cannot alter the fundamental truths that his word conveys. Anyone who does is a fraud.

Psalm 19 says the very heavens proclaim God's existence. How could we ever match that? Jesus says in Luke 19:40 that even the stones will cry out if his disciples remain silent. You can silence the ministers and change the manuscripts, but you can't stop the signal when the Holy Spirit is involved.

 

My perspective on quantum mechanics isn't great, but I don't view this type of technology much differently than I view the technologies we already have. Many of the things our technology currently does used to be God-only capabilities, but he has graciously allowed us to use the forces he created for our own advancement. Our powers may appear to approach his, but our finite-ness will never rival his infinence.

[–]El0vution0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I guess in a situation like this the Catholic’s would proudly assert their apostolic tradition as they’ve never limited Christ’s teaching to ‘sola scriptura.’

In any case I don’t understand why you’re so hyper focused on someone with this power changing the Bible when they could in fact change ANYTHING and still proclaim themself as Christ.

[–]Torn4_025[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I guess it's because I've heard Christians say during the end times the anti-christ won't have power over the bible no matter what. Also I've asked a question like this in Church before and was told nothing can happen to the bible unless God changed it. To many Christian's if a house, car, history book or government changed it might be amazing, but not proof of being God. However if the hard copy bibles changed then many could feel compelled to believe whoever did this must be God.

[–]rocknrollchuck0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.......“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it."

Matthew 24:4-5, 23-26

Either the Bible is true and comes from God, and you should believe every single word of it - or it's false and you should not believe any of it. There is no changing things, even hypothetically, because of the perfect nature of God Himself. After all, if you're already perfect and holy, what reason would there be for any change? Also, if God is powerful enough to create the universe from nothing, surely He is powerful enough to preserve the elect.

Also I've asked a question like this in Church before and was told nothing can happen to the bible unless God changed it. To many Christian's if a house, car, history book or government changed it might be amazing, but not proof of being God. However if the hard copy bibles changed then many could feel compelled to believe whoever did this must be God.

Some of the hard copy Bibles have been changed. Any time there is a new translation, there are changes. Plus there are corruptions: one only need look at the New World Translation (Jehovah's Witness version), The Message, or the Queen James Bible to understand this. It's not that the hard copies cannot be changed, it's that the truths in the Word cannot be changed. This is why the Dead Sea Scrolls are so important, as well as the other oldest copies of the Scriptures that we have such as the Septuagint.

[–]Torn4_025[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.......“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it."

Matthew 24:4-5, 23-26

Either the Bible is true and comes from God, and you should believe every single word of it - or it's false and you should not believe any of it. There is no changing things, even hypothetically, because of the perfect nature of God Himself. After all, if you're already perfect and holy, what reason would there be for any change? Also, if God is powerful enough to create the universe from nothing, surely He is powerful enough to preserve the elect.

One reason people might say God would change the bible is because of the corruptions like you brought up below. But I don't think that's how God would handle it.

My first concern is that it's possible the anti-christ could not only have online data bases and new printed bibles corrupted, but the ones people actually currently have in their possession. Some Christians refer to this as Quantum pollution and point to this explaining Revelation 22:18-19 as beyond simply printing a different bible, but actually changing the scrolls God's inspired word first appeared on.

The claim basically is that God sends a strong delusion by allowing all the bibles in existence to be changed so those with the word in their heart would be separated from those of the world that have knowledge without love, acceptance or understanding. It's not a claim that scriptures were never true in the first place, but that it's a next level attack where instead of just printing different versions or destroying bibles the anti-Christ will think to change God's laws by changing what the oldest inspired scriptures say.

Some of the hard copy Bibles have been changed. Any time there is a new translation, there are changes. Plus there are corruptions: one only need look at the New World Translation (Jehovah's Witness version), The Message, or the Queen James Bible to understand this. It's not that the hard copies cannot be changed, it's that the truths in the Word cannot be changed. This is why the Dead Sea Scrolls are so important, as well as the other oldest copies of the Scriptures that we have such as the Septuagint.

I understand new translations and changes to some existing translation's have taken place. The Mandela effect claim put forward though is that even the oldest scriptures could be seamlessly changed via Quantum Entanglement.

The Mandela Effect as Christians often put it isn't time travel despite people often confusing it as such. The difference between say time travel and the Mandela Effect is that it's retroactive. If someone travels back in time to kill Hitler then World war 2 never happens. However with a retroactive effect it's like when the government retroactively changes your taxes 10 years back. It doesn't change what actually happened during those years, but the records surrounding it.

So applying this to the bible it means Jesus still died on the cross for our sins, men appointed by God still wrote down his word in scrolls, people for 100's of years still got the true message and God's law remains written in heaven, but from whatever time the Mandela effect begins the humans that read the dead sea scrolls or the bible will see something different than what had been originally written.

This now brings me to my other concern that Christians wouldn't know how to spread the truth if this happened. You know I saw videos on this subject years ago and thought even if it's happening that's someone else's job to figure out. I wish that was the only time I've decided it's someone else's job to do something. Back in January I read the studies on COVID-19 and knew about hospitalization rates yet for the most part served only myself in buying mask along with other supplies. I wanted to be wrong and didn't really say nearly as much as I could have. I thought warning other people was someone else's job and now I realize it's been the same with the gospel.

Please know none of this is meant to degrade Jesus dying on the cross, the Holy Spirit or God. It's because I love the truth that I share my concerns and want to understand the theology at work here better.

[–]rocknrollchuck0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

My first concern is that it's possible the anti-christ could not only have online data bases and new printed bibles corrupted, but the ones people actually currently have in their possession. Some Christians refer to this as Quantum pollution and point to this explaining Revelation 22:18-19 as beyond simply printing a different bible, but actually changing the scrolls God's inspired word first appeared on.

This is quite a stretch, and while it is theoretically possible, to allow for this would mean that Satan has outwitted God.

The claim basically is that God sends a strong delusion by allowing all the bibles in existence to be changed so those with the word in their heart would be separated from those of the world that have knowledge without love, acceptance or understanding. It's not a claim that scriptures were never true in the first place, but that it's a next level attack where instead of just printing different versions or destroying bibles the anti-Christ will think to change God's laws by changing what the oldest inspired scriptures say.

The "strong delusion" passage is in 2 Thessalonians 2. Let's look at it in context of the chapter, and I'll use the NLT so that it's meaning is extra-clear:

Now, dear brothers and sisters, let us clarify some things about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and how we will be gathered to meet him. 2 Don’t be so easily shaken or alarmed by those who say that the day of the Lord has already begun. Don’t believe them, even if they claim to have had a spiritual vision, a revelation, or a letter supposedly from us. 3 Don’t be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed—the one who brings destruction. 4 He will exalt himself and defy everything that people call god and every object of worship. He will even sit in the temple of God, claiming that he himself is God.

5 Don’t you remember that I told you about all this when I was with you? 6 And you know what is holding him back, for he can be revealed only when his time comes. 7 For this lawlessness is already at work secretly, and it will remain secret until the one who is holding it back steps out of the way. 8 Then the man of lawlessness will be revealed, but the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of his mouth and destroy him by the splendor of his coming.

9 This man will come to do the work of Satan with counterfeit power and signs and miracles. 10 He will use every kind of evil deception to fool those on their way to destruction, because they refuse to love and accept the truth that would save them. 11 So God will cause them to be greatly deceived, and they will believe these lies. 12 Then they will be condemned for enjoying evil rather than believing the truth.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-12

So you can see that the "strong delusion" (or "greatly deceived" in the NLT) refers to people saying that the Day of the Lord had already happened, as referenced previously. This will happen (and is happening now) as apostasy, unbelief and rebellion against God overtakes all that is good and right. Look around - it's happening right before our eyes: people are calling evil good, and good evil.


What it really comes down to is this: if things have been retroactively changed, we would have no way to know it. However, we should go forth as if God has preserved His truth for us. There is really nothing else we can do. I believe that the truth is there for those who truly want it.

[–]Torn4_025[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is quite a stretch, and while it is theoretically possible, to allow for this would mean that Satan has outwitted God.

I don't quite see it that way as two witnesses sent by God will be going around preaching his word no matter what happens to our bible's.

So you can see that the "strong delusion" (or "greatly deceived" in the NLT) refers to people saying that the Day of the Lord had already happened, as referenced previously. This will happen (and is happening now) as apostasy, unbelief and rebellion against God overtakes all that is good and right. Look around - it's happening right before our eyes: people are calling evil good, and good evil.

That makes sense as I do think people will do this to themselves.

What it really comes down to is this: if things have been retroactively changed, we would have no way to know it. However, we should go forth as if God has preserved His truth for us. There is really nothing else we can do. I believe that the truth is there for those who truly want it.

I believe your right. The truth is Christ for those who honestly desire to know who he actually is. I've allowed stress to pour over into fear due to having too much time to worry about the future.

[–]Willow-girl0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm probably going to part ways with 99% of the crowd here, but IMO, the Bible is a human record of human interactions with and opinions about the Divine.

There is an ancient Chinese proverb that goes, "When a finger points at the moon, the fool looks at the finger."

Now, can the finger be helpful in guiding one to see the moon? Sure. But it is not the moon



You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

© TheRedArchive 2021. All rights reserved.

created by /u/dream-hunter