I haven't swallowed the red pill but they seem to have some accurate points. How do I balance this for a healthy perspective?

obvi_imnicklachey · 2020-04-05T04:50:47+00:00

I'm a 28 year-old male, and consider myself fairly average.

An onus on self-improvement is about the only decent thing to be pulled from TRP. Embrace it! Not for pussy, but for yourself. Active and focused self improvement should be a huge pillar of every person's life.

I'm mostly happy with my life and not really down on myself because I don't have the right jawline or whatever, but I've still been sexless for years and don't see that changing soon. I'm definitely not some alpha entrepreneur who is guaranteed to take a woman on any grand adventure. I'm just a guy. A healthy guy with a college degree, productive hobbies, and good credit, but, y'know, whatever.

How tall are you? Unless the answer is 4'9, I'm willing to bet your main problem is simply not meeting enough women...

I don't believe that I am owed affection and I'm not mad at women or society or anything, but I still can't help but lend an ear when trp people say that there is some equation or game at work and that I happen to be on the losing end of it. Maybe that's just how things are. Honestly I'm struggling more with depression and apathy than anger and resentment.

That's the mass appeal. You get that right? If you can just convince a bunch of men that "success" with women is as easy as figuring out some type of code, you're going to get a lot of interest. Peel back the layers and you see this is a new-age iteration of the same "women aren't people, they are foreign aliens that we can know and conquer by doing everything BUT listening to them and treating them like individual unique beings" script. There is no cheat code to human beings, but every decade a new group is going to come along with yet another anti-scientific attempt to portray men and women as completely different species and reduce female sexuality down to "durrr hypergamy".

I do all the self-improvement things that are recommended such as having an enriched personal life and going to the gym and whatnot and I'm glad that I'm doing those things for their own sake.

Oh good you're already on it. Question: how good is your social life? In my estimation, a good dating life can most easily be borne from having a good social life (i.e. a life where you're constantly in the position to meet and build relationships with new people). The one line of dating advice I will live and die by is as follows: dating is, above all else, a numbers game. I don't believe the "alphas" (vomit) are the most successful at dating, I think it's usually the most outgoing and social people you know that have the most successful. Without writing an entire book on this, I just want to get across that being a good catch means next to nothing if there aren't enough women being exposed to your good-catch-ness.

Even if they don't earn me affection from women I'm still better off for having made an effort. In terms of actively pursuing companionship I'm on some dating sites and apps, which honestly I hate because I think they're mostly superficial and dehumanizing. But aside from that, all I can think to do is be lucky enough to bump into somebody in my day-to-day life, and I'm not really holding my breath.

I'm a woman so this might be more of a drastic move for a guy, but I say ditch the apps.

I'm going to backtrack and say "abundance mindset" is also a valuable theme from TRP that I think it very important (or simply the idea that there are BILLIONS of people on planet earth and all of them are, in theory, replaceable). With that being said, online dating gives people a false sense of "abundance", without any imperative to build the social skills/take the social risks it takes actual socially successful people to become socially successful. So I think that goes to reason that the benefits to be had from OLD rarely mirror the benefits of being the type of person with tons of hobbies who starts conversations with strangers all the time.

Certain assertions made by trp people seem reasonable when considered from a biological perspective, such as the point that women are adapted for hypergamy, or that men are genetically expendable (meaning that the reproductive viability of the species would get along just fine even if the majority of men never fathered children).

Yah, its a bunch of seemingly reasonably stuff mixed in with a lot of utter bullshit...

Of course, biological facts such as these are totally abstract and they do not have a direct impact on the social dynamics of dating in the modern world. It's not like these considerations actively guide anyone's conscious decision-making, so they may easily seem irrelevant.

But they do become somewhat intimidating when coupled with certain critiques of modern society that are also presented by trp people. One such critique is the fact that traditional centers of community, like religious identity etc., which were once a big way for previous generations to meet and pair up, are quickly eroding. In the place of traditional community, more impersonal modes of interaction such as social media and online dating are taking primacy in an increasingly atomized and alienating society. It all does start to seem rather bleak, like it's just the plain cold arithmetic of things.

Whether I'm red-pilled or blue-pilled I don't anticipate either perspective changing the reality that, if my trend continues as it is, I'm likely to just die alone. Crazy thing is that my trend isn't even all that bad, I'm doing okay in my own life but even "okay" doesn't seem good enough to be sure of anything. So it goes, whatever will be will be, I just don't wanna become some angry incel twerp about it. So, aside from getting lucky and just happening to find a relationship, what's my way out of this purgatory of apathetic acceptance that I find myself in? I need something, because all I have right now to get through the days is quiet hedonism punctuated by the hamster-wheel of "self-improvement." I'm comforted by visits with my friends, parents, and grandparents, but none of them will be around forever.

I want very badly to find fulfillment as a husband and father, to find reasons outside of myself to carry on into later life, but there's no promise that that will happen, no matter how good or accomplished or worthy I try to be.

Yeah and its this eternal truth that drives all of us (men and women alike) to these adversarial not-at-all scientific sets of dating dogmas. The reality is, you can't alpha your way out of not getting fucked over one day. As a woman who is VERY pessimistic about the propensity of any man to be a decent partner, please believe me when I say there is plenty of peace in accepting that no amount of being a good read made husband will shield you from being disappointing by love.

I'm terrified of being a lonely old man with no family and when I think of that future I don't really see the point in getting that far. Hell, my brother's in the same boat so I can't even count on being an uncle.

A grave, but common, human error is letting our world view determine our truths, instead of letting truths determine our world view. Here are some non disputable truths to chew on

The world has 6+ billion people. Presumably, half of which are female. Presumably, almost all of which you've never met
You can be the "perfect" (regardless of your interpretation of this word) partner and still get fucked over
People are complex. No two people are similar. Even when general stereotypes might hold true, people have and do act in accordance to, and also against, their natural inclinations all the time.

The other "truths" that you feel like you don't have don't mean as much as what i've listed above. Look, I'm willing to bet that what you're missing is some solid social skills and solid socializing time. Your situation hardly sounds bleak so it'd be an extra tragedy if you went the TRP route.

Running out of time and gotta blast - I can expand more about my thoughts anytime, but also just interested in this issue at this point in my life (as it give me tons of perspective and tools needed to work out my own shit lol) so feel free to PM

SgllsTaklnDux · 2020-04-05T02:16:52+00:00

You're right. There are secret rules no one is explicitly taught. Norms vary by social group, but money and good/athletic looks talk in most cultures and social groups. Socializing is a skill anyone can learn. Try testing different social groups out. Looking for women! Conservative churches may be just brimming with young women looking for serious relationships, if you're religious. Drastically changing your life in a smart rather than hasty way can sometimes do the trick. But healthy adults can almost always pick out neediness and shrink back, that's why giving up hope and working on yourself sometimes does the trick in my opinion.

Honestly, forget those dudes. TRP isn't worth thought power. I don't mean it as necessarily a denigration, but you have better things to do with your time.

Good luck dude.

Inareskai · 2020-04-05T16:17:56+00:00

Be wary of accepting their 'biological points'. Human biology and evolution is rarely so simple that it can be reduced to 'women are designed for Y and men are designed for X, it's in their base nature'. There are things that seem to be general to humans, but between the sexes it's a lot more complex. There are whole areas of philosophy and history of biology/science/evolution, there's the whole discipline of Psychology, there's even debate amongst biologists and evolutionary scientists all the time. It seems unlikely that some guys on the internet have somehow cracked this hidden biological code to how all (specifically) women somehow function. They're using science, but that doesn't mean they're using it well!

You're not that old, there's still plenty of life in store for you that could include a relationship, it could not but if you want one it's more likely than not that one will happen if you look for it. My parents met when they were 30 and 33. You've got time, if you want a relationship, consider how you might find one and keep trying. Sometimes people are unlucky, but your strategy for life is good.

Personally I'm quite glad religious based communities are fading away... while we are moving to more digital things, plenty of social groups that meet up and support each other do exist. If you're taking part in hobbies that are social and are generally a social person I'm a little surprised you haven't experienced them?

lidiakwon · 2020-04-06T07:34:44+00:00

I still can't help but lend an ear when trp people say that there is some equation or game at work and that I happen to be on the losing end of it.

Hey, I'm a woman and I understand where you're coming from, especially knowing how online dating is really skewed against men nowadays.

In terms of actively pursuing companionship I'm on some dating sites and apps, which honestly I hate because I think they're mostly superficial and dehumanizing.

I'm pretty sure a lot of other men, or even women would agree with your experience with online dating here.

But what kind of experience we rely on to draw a general conclusion about how the real social dynamics work matters a lot, and online dating experience is definitely the extreme one.

I want very badly to find fulfillment as a husband and father, to find reasons outside of myself to carry on into later life.

Because of my job, I've personally had a lot of chances to talk to both men and women about their struggle with dating.

And you will be surprised to know how many women out there want the exact same thing as you want, building a family of their own and they are as frustrated as you, because they don't know how to make it work yet, either.

I can't say I represent the entire gender, but If you're interested, I can still try to give you as genuine perspectives as possible about what women think, and how dating works from female perspectives.

But before that, I'd like to be a bit more clear about what effort you're making with dating. Other than online dating, what other action have you taken to meet women recently?

Baghdadincoming · 2020-04-08T12:54:11+00:00

I'm glad that you understand nobody owes you affection.

Regarding biology and hypergamy, I will just say that we truly live in a lookist society that is heavily dependent on our biology. How much it affects people's decisions depends on a lot of factors. But do realise that just as some women strive for the best mate, so do men, as exemplified by r/Trufemcels. And speaking of that sub, realise that no one has it as bad as people with actual facial deformities and disabilities.

To achieve your dream of marriage and kids, you'll have to find someone who's compatible and doesn't live a risky, hectic life. So walk the talk and don't get distracted by a beautiful crazy girl who just wants to party and hook up.

srubia2007 · 2020-04-13T04:00:00+00:00

I’m glad you posted, and that I found your post, it seems to be the one I’ve been on the lookout for. I can understand the enticement of TRP, because they do make some valid points, but that is where the danger lies: the “red pill” in question, if you’ll allow me to further the analogy, has many supplements that can help but still contains trace amounts of poison that can ruin an otherwise upstanding male such as you seem to be.

Their philosophy is so reasonable, right? “Work on yourself, go to the gym, get some new hobbies, go out and meet new people, and oh yeah, don’t forget to hate women.”

Obviously, that’s a gross oversimplification, but it’s true; worldviews like TRP and “incels” and the like are just old-school misogyny dressed up in new fancy clothes. They can lead you down a dark path if you’re not careful. You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders, enough to pull back from their philosophies a bit, but I’d still be careful taking their advice.

I have a new philosophy I’m working on with a couple of friends to counteract the negativity of TRP and similar ideals, and I hope you will join us in talking about it. Hit me up if you see this message and are interested in hearing more. My current choice for a name of the philosophy is “Say Anything,” because it’s based in part on a favorite 80s flick of mine, but also because it’s good advice: you run into women every day, at the grocery store, on the street, in line at the DMV, whatever, and the best thing to do in those scenarios is....say something. ANYTHING. Make yourself known. It will be super awkward at first, but only gets better with time and practice.

Anyways, even if you think I’m full of it or trying to peddle something off on you and don’t respond, I wish you the best of luck, sir. I kept my V-card till age 27, got married twice, and have two wonderful daughters and the best partner I could hope for, when in my twenties all that seemed hopeless. Everybody has their own path. No worries.

carljamez · 2020-04-13T23:50:00+00:00

Seek and yee shall find.

vivid-bunny · 2020-04-17T09:57:00+00:00

just think on your own. there is no red pill swallowing brainwash. thats just anti mens rights propaganda. think on your own, look for yourself, talk to women on your own and you will realize what the truth is and what not. the red pill movement wouldnt be popular if it didnt have actual valid points that need to be addressed. in the early 1900's there were also many women who called feminists lazy, ugly losers that cant find no good man.

IHaveABigDuvet · 2020-04-26T17:41:20+00:00

We are all afraid to die alone. We all long to pair up and settle down. Know that there are thousands of people in your city, both men and women thinking the same thoughts as you; "what if I die alone".

We all want stability. We all want happiness. I think that one of the main things TRP get wrong about hypergamy is that the avergae woman isnt set out to cheat. But if you treat your partner in the way that the TRP promote, then yes, she will leave you eventually, and yes, she will go on to meet someone willing to treat her better.

And, because their lack of self awareness, instead looking back on the relationship and trying to figure out what went wrong, they protect themselves by blaming external factors. They are too afraid to honestly even look themselves in the mirror. The idea of hypergamy is very much a self-fulfilling prophesy.

A half truth is a whole lie. By that I mean, yes, social media is a primary way that people interact in modern day life, and yes, communities tend to be less centralised. Its just an unfortunate part of life. But this has no basis on TRP.

Ok, I want to end the post saying this; finding a long term partner is about chance. Its about opportunity. Being in the right place, and the right time, and meeting someone you are compatible with. Now we can increase our chances by being on dating sites and going to more social events, but if you want a guarantee about whether you will ever find a long-term partner and settle down; I cant tell you that, TRP cant tell you that, nor Jesus of Nazareth of a shiny magic eight ball. Just in the same way that you could never oredict that for me either.

Unfortunately we just have to accept that our futures are unknown. Its uncomfortable, but what can we do?

2020-05-10T04:58:16+00:00

Pick and choose what you want, what makes sense, and what works for you. Pick from Red Pill, Blue Pill, Black Pill.. whatnot! That's the healthy way, following anything 100% is being in a cult.

Title	I haven't swallowed the red pill but they seem to have some accurate points. How do I balance this for a healthy perspective?
Author	Emergency_Session
Upvotes	17
Comments	15
Date	April 4, 2020 11:15 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/fv3g6b/i_havent_swallowed_the_red_pill_but_they_seem_to/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/i-havent-swallowed-the-red-pill-but-they-seem-to.360507 https://theredarchive.com/post/360507