I've noticed a lot of guys (and girls), really start to make dumb decisions the moment they get 'friend zoned' or even simply shown a slight hint that other party isn't that interested. Where instead of backing off they feel the need to turn up the heat and try to pursue things further.
Don't do this.
If she doesnt want things to go further, don't waste a single second further on the relationship, unless you also want to just be friends.
Don't take it personally.
Don't get upset.
Don't even think about it. Be happy... move on.
Not only is this good for your personal health, but it also keeps your dignity in good tact.
And has the side effect of actually boosting your SMV (Sexual Market Value for you young players).
When you see the girl who friendzoned you, don't be angry, don't be awkward, don't be upset, don't be shy. Be happy and social.
Anyway, this rant should come as common sense to many here in TRP, but it's good to touch explicitly on the basics from time to time.
Have a great day!
TRP advice is the net approach, not spearfishing.
Betas will fixate on the one that got away, idealize it beyond reality and at the end of the day have nothing. Alphas will select from their 2-3 catches, and if he has nothing, it's because he tossed them back because he knows he'll catch more tommorrow. He doesn't dwell on the dozens that passed through the net that week beyond learning from it to make a better net.
Great analogy, I'd take it a step further to say that spearfishing doesn't even work. Men with spears are starving.
And if there is one thing that destroys tingles it's a starving man
Nets are more efficient than spears anyway.
Tell that to Betabobbie and his Oneitis!
Gladly.
Betabobble! Get a fuckin' net! They're way more efficient.
Betabobble's oneitis, come join me for a drink. I'll show you my net.
I can't help but joke to myself that if Nets are more efficient than spears, I should invest in Electrofishing.
Spear fishing is more fun though
All plates eventually fall and break. The moment I get the "I'm not feeling this" text or don't get a response, I go no contact. I used to respond when they'd break things off and say, "That's cool. Best of luck in everything." but I've learned it's not even worth that much effort.
Too many women also won't have a guts to communicate they're moving on either.
Rich guys with flashy cars sometimes get called out for perhaps attracting the wrong girls and complaining about gold diggers etc. Some women will dress as sexy as possible and then complain about being used for sex. I think both are just casting a large net by maximizing who they attract.
Even a top 5% man in his prime is probably only attracting 50% of the women he wants, which means 50% will friendzone him or turn him down. The difference between him and the beta orbiters is that he recognizes it and moves on, knowing he has an abundance of women more willing to give him what he's after.
The biggest difference, I would say, is that a 5% man knows better than to invest.
Alpha man sees a girl he wants, and doesn't hesitate.
Beta man sees a girl he wants, and keeps her in his mind for months until he musters the courage to approach. Beta man invests all these feelings and it is MUCH harder to do exactly what OP is saying.
Plan accordingly, gents.
Abundance mentality cures all
Abundance Mentality, brought to you by Not Giving A Fuck
5% man? You mean Rich Piana?
Shrinking balls is a good fucking thing!
Dick hanging lower than the balls is a good fucking thing!
This, plus if you think about it women are emotional and might be in the middle of a serious relationship or who knows what but attraction has evolved to meet a good genetic mate. It works in opposite as well where I have got girls because they just like me for some reason.
A serious relationship is simply a relationship that hasn't given a woman enough time to consider other options.
2 days ago I would have called this bullshit ,cuz I'm still young and stupid and still learning, but I recently heard something I couldn't believe my ears. Although I still doubt it whether it's true .
I was talking with a friend and this 3 other girls about handsome girls and guys etc. I told them I couldn't believe how handsome Henry Cavill is, something I as straight guy, realized a few days before the conversation (had seen man from UNCLE). 1 of the girls found him great, the other 2 said they would have rejected him.
I couldn't believe my ears, why would they do that? if I was gay and I got a chance with him, wouldn't even stand still for a second lol. Then they told me, they found him too perfect. Apparently they want a man who has some kind of flaw like Robbert pattison, he has a "weird, missshaped jaw" ( they probably mean too defined, I think ).
So yeah you (at least I did ) may think the top 5% guys, guys like Chris Hemsworth, who is tall, handsome and has a deep voice, can get every girl, but they can't. Nobody really can get every girl, not even 90 % of all the girls. (unless you have game, like serious game, then it ma be possible to have higher rate than 50 I believe)
EDIT: THANKS GUYS. INSTEAD OF JUST DOWN VOTING THIS BECAUSE YOU DON't AGREE, YOU GUYS GAVE ME TONS OF INFORMATION AND PROVE WHY I'M WRONG IN BELIEVING THEM. LOVE THIS SUB, ALWAYS LEARNING.
While the premise still holds, it's important to realize that each of these girls would fuck both of those guys in a second. The top 0.001% do get more than 90% of the women because they have looks and status. Most girls would fuck them just to say they did it. What they mean is that if a guy who looked just like him but without the status came up to them, they might pass.
I'm guessing this actually isn't true either. I'm guessing they're SAYING that they might pass, so that in the event that they get ignored or rejected, they have an out.
Try creating a profile of a hot but relatively unknown male model on Tinder and see the kind of responses you get.
Don't know if you've seen this or not but here's that exact thing.
http://www.tinderseduction.com/male-model-tinder-case-study/
I'm so late to this thread but thank you for the link, reading those messages was hilarious.
That's flawed logic. Tinder only shows you who swiped. That by no means means others didn't pass.
Fine. Then use a very quick 'DTF?' line on them and see what happens.
Have you tried it? Because you'll match EVERY TIME.
Responses mean nothing. They should do a test asking for girls to meet up for dates. Watch the numbers drastically change.
This comment is correct. The 80/20 thing gets so extreme near the top, guys in good movies can literally have 99% of women. That's insane, we should all be aspiring actors.
Ignore what people say, and focus on what they do. Women are conditioned to avoid talking openly about their own sexual desires and interests. The "he's too perfect" is hindsight reasoning, AKA sour grapes. It's like saying that you didn't do well in school because you think studying is a sucker's game and you don't want to play it.
When you claim that you refuse to play a game because you don't like it, you can avoid being judged as a lousy player. Chances are, those girls know that they don't stand a chance with Henry Cavill, and are simply engaging in some psychological self-preservation.
"I wouldn't want to be CEO of a large company, it's too much pressure," etc, etc. Who gives a shit. It's all identity performance.
Henry Cavill and Chris Hemsworth do not give a shit, and yes, they get every woman they want save for the Hollywood actresses themselves (and even then, they sometimes get them). Basically, I don't believe those girls for an instant. Let's see who they pick when Henry Cavill and Robert Pattison are right the fuck in front of them.
Probably still Robert Pattison if they say so. Had they said "Seth Rogen" I would have said "yeah, of cooouuurse you do", but RP would do the trick.
You know there's some girl out there though that gets a lady boner for Seth Rogan.
Those guys aren't top 5%, they are top 0.01%. It seems that most redpillers underrate how rare the truly top guys are. Also percentages seem to be part of the reason, if you see top 5% as 1 out of 20 guys you'll realise that theses guys are a lot less than what you assume and that also applies to the arbitrary top 20%.
"I take sour grapes for 100 bucks!"
But yeah, you're right. While a ridiculously pretty woman who also happens to be likable, interesting and well-adjusted can probably get any (single. well-adjusted) dude to commit to her, for men it isn't that easy because you have to circumvent all dealbreakers, even so stupid ones as "x hair? meh, want a y-haired dude". On the other hand, being totally eligible for 20% or more of women within your target demographic is already awesome. Don't forget, most men have to content themselves with being okay enough for a low single digit-percentage.
They're full of shit. Women will say all sorts of garbage like this, then 3/3 of them would fuck him given the actual real opportunity to do so.
Watch their actions, not their words.
Don't listen to their words, see their actions. I bet they would feel diff if he approached.
She would totally have a hook up or short term fling, something long enough to make her feel special. But yes, long term they can't handle being so outclassed
She may have said that as a weak humblebrag. She would turn down Superman, because he'd of course approach an awesome woman like her.
Her stating that, no matter how impossible to ever happen, empowers her.
It's all a power game, Sex is just a tool and currency. Never forget that.
I don't know what I should believe. However, yesterday I was reading an article about how men with a lot of testosterone are attracted to women with feminine faces. And that women had more testosterone near their periods. At that time they are attracted more to men with testosterone, facial scaring (bad boys). Testosterone driven women interpret things like facial scaring as sign that a man took life by the horns, the type of man who had to fight a lion to get where he is, so to speak. Women at that point in their cycle (near menstrual) are looking for a quick fuck. Women have less testosterone when they are in the fertile point in their cycle. They seek [beta] men that have pretty faces and smile, someone who will take care of children.
I can't vouch for it's truthiness.
Too true. There's a million reasons she's saying no that have nothing to do with you. Hell no one even talks about a girl who has a rotten crotch from the last guy and doesn't want to give it to you.
I've had times where I put in the effort to get the girl who turned me down time and again. Turns out she did me a favor all those prior times. Sometimes they just know before you do.
I received a piece of advice years ago that I still follow today...basically it goes like this: "Not everyone is going to like you. And that's okay. Just ignore them and focus on those people that do like you."
As it is in day trading, so it is in love: it's not about maximizing your gains, but about MINIMIZING YOUR LOSSES. As soon as you realize the stock has peaked (in this case, she's made it clear the relationship is not progressing any further), cut your losses and move on.
Of course, this isn't to say that, if she isn't throwing herself into your arms 10 seconds after she meets you, you should just "Next" her and move on... But if you've spent more than 7 to 10 hours together (15 max), AND you've made your intentions clear, AND she still hits you with "Let's just be friends"--let her go.
Life's too short to waste your time and energy on someone who doesn't want it. Save it--save it for someone who does.
And how do you not get upset? ABUNDANCE. Yup.
This. 1000 times yes. I'm recovering from oneitis, I've tried everything everyone has advised me only to find that abundance mentality is the only thing that works. I've now got a couple of plates, working on two others and suddenly I don't give a shit about that skank that doesn't want me.
I went out drinking Saturday night, really held frame and RP theory the entire night. Worked every room I entered. Picked up twice, made another girl jealous and got three numbers.
This shit works.
"skank that doesnt want me"
I understand that its therapeutic to shit talk. Hell, Id do it on TRP even if I didnt feel that way just to fit in and make sure no one called me a little oneitis bitch.
But, one thing I have noticed about truly getting over someone, and not being affected by it?
You dont care. They say no, and you harbor no ill feelings for them. Indeed, you feel a little SAD for them!
I know this sounds like some feel good BS, but never let any negative emotions enter you when rejection occurs. Be happy that someone who didnt want you in their life made it clear to you and stopped wasting your time.
You mean biology and nature ? yeah I heard they work .
Friendzone usually happens to guys who act too friendly.
But if you do find yourself friend-zoned, you should immediately segue into that girl functioning as a pivot to snag other girls or even hook you up with one of her friends.
That's actually the best way to save face for yourself and her.
"What is great about you not seeing me in that way, is that now you can help me hook up with your friend (insert her best friend's name) who is really cute."
This is a tricky call... because women will always put up some resistance to sex, and "let's just be friends" can be a shit test that can be burned to the ground and the burned tatters of it so obliterated into obscurity that the girl herself can't even remember it happened. Been there, done that.
Equally... don't throw your silk purses after swine, to mix a metaphor. Once it's not happening, accept it's not happening.
Certainly never ever behave as her friend either way. She can friendzone you all she likes, doesn't mean you have to do shit for her. Never do shit for her. Never lift a god damned finger to help a woman you want to bang.
Basically it depends what you are getting out of the relationship. This is the key point here.
So usually she will ask for some help as a friend since she has a "problem". I retort back well I have a problem also and friends should help each other.
She then asks me what my problem is, so I tell her my problem is my cock is really hard and painful. And I need her to help relieve the pressure and pain. Or I am looking for a 3rd for a threesome.
She then says she can't help me with my problem, I tell her that I can't help her with hers either.
No offense, but it sounds pretty bluepill
Why do you say that ?
Usually she retorts back she can't help me with that type of problem. I then ask what type of problem can she help me with ? Usually some hamster about "support" or "listen about problems". I then tell her she is pretty fucking useless isn't she ?
So direct, to the point, and it lets her know you are not a chump.
But if you have better ideas, I am all ears.
You must be really good looking if creepy shit like that works for you.
Make sure you've made your intentions clear (best is right from the start). If she's not showing interest, it's good to remember that's still infinitely better than living in prolonged soul sucking uncertainty. If she lets you down respectfully it's not hard to let her go respectfully too; smile, thank her nonetheless and move on. If she's being a bitch about it, than that's a bullit dodged. That's really all there is to it.
Another thing to point out (haven't read the comments so sorry if someone else has already said this) is that keeping it cool when you're freindzoned and breaking off contact in a normal and polite way to resume working on your SMV can get you out of the friendzone later on down the road.
Example: used to be another beta, know some girls who are friends of my friends that I used to see around every once and a while but knew they weren't interested in anything sexual with me, went to the gym for 3 months, ran into one of them again, escalated at the club and started making out with her and grabbing her ass while telling her what we'd be doing later. Keep it cool and keep building that SMV guys (or just keep working on your life in general).
AND KEEP HOLDING FRAME. Holding frame over time yields results that are pleasantly unexpected, you'd be surprised.
This cuts both ways. If a girl you've known for a while explicitly puts you in friend zone, you should stop investing in her. However, many guys will give up in an interaction with a woman at the first sign of disinterest. And if a guy has any kind of social anxiety, he is much more likely to over-read signals of rejection from a woman. If she's not constantly smiling at him and acting like she would suck his dick at any moment, he assumes she's not interested. Women are masters at hiding their interest. What I'm saying is that sometimes you need to push the envelope with women and keep pressing the action sexually even if they act disinterested at first. This applies more to women you've just met rather than women you've known for a long time.
This needs more up votes. Years ago, i remember going out with a girl once, then trying to set up date #2. Things just kept happeneing and It never materialized. But I only tried once or twice. I took it personal because I was under the impression that, if a girl likes you, she will drop what she's doing to hang out with you. NO MATTER WHAT even if her mother died and that she has to damn there be begging for your dick. Years later i ended up hearing that she wondered why i eased up on her. She actually really liked me. It seems like if I would have just stayed cool and not take her so seriously it may have worked out. The coolness would have came from knowing that she's not the only woman out there and that i could get another.
Just take it easy but be mindful of whats happening to make sure you're not just another orbiter.
I'm actually inclined to believe you were right the first time. That girl probably did LIKE you. That's not the same as being hot for you. I want a girl that's hot to trot. Trust your instincts. The girl was luke-warm. I've been in those situations. Lots of wasted time and bland sex, if it ever happens at all.
Yeah lukewarm girls are a colossal waste of time. You never know if she was the one who got away or not...
I used to have social anxiety bad, you are right about over-reading into what is said or texted. Watch for it, be conscious of it, no response for a day might simply be a busy day. Do not overthink how they reacted to your prior line. Even if you do this, you are still walking away from a woman playing a game so it's not a bad thing. Just keep going until one is just blatantly interested, abundance mentality always be willing to walk to find better.
Yes. Some women want to be hunted and playing hard to get can be just another shit test. As long as there is sexual tension: pursue. Be sexual about it and don't be her emotional tampon ever.
There's no reason to even socialize with her. At all.
You're not giving her the cold shoulder because you're pissed; she doesn't deserve your time and affection. A relationship is a transaction. She's not giving you what you want (sex), so don't bother going out of your way giving her what she wants (attention).
Obviously be sure to maintain plausible deniability if you run in the same social circles. Don't ignore her but don't go out of your way to be friendly either.
Glad I read this.
I've been this way with all women who typically reject my advances. I don't harbor anger towards them, but I always stop initiating conversation. I've had some people tell me I'm too black/white, yet I've always felt it's best to not stimulate a fake interest in them any further if I know that sex isn't on the table.
It's ironic that you're the one society shuns. "All you want is sex, you're so shallow". No, better to be her 'friend' for the next six months in the hopes that she'll jump into your pants. /s
Or just be normal. You don't even have try to maintain plausible deniability with other people if you just like a normal human being.
Fact of the matter is, I'm not interested in hanging around a woman if she's not into me. I'm not interested in being her friend. As far as I'm concerned she doesn't exist. But in reality she does exist, and I acknowledge her as such because of social obligations. I'm not sure what you're taking issue with.
"But in reality she does exist, and I acknowledge her as such because of social obligations." Ok. So like I said just be normal. Is acting like a human hard for you or something? Like everything you said doesn't take that much thought and planning. A girl doesn't want to date me. I don't want to be her friend. I don't need a whole plan with how to deal with it. I just act normal and use basic fucking manners when she's around.
Good post, very succinct way of putting it. When I see questions on askTRP its always something along the lines of "how can I get this girl?". I don't know why but its so hard to get it into new RPers head's that you have to keep moving. If they are not interested or on the fence, you have to keep moving and setting up new prospects. Its amazing how quickly you can get a girl off the fence when she realizes you've moved on to another girl while she was "deciding" (i.e. briffault's law).
"I want to redefine our relationship."
I get to redefine relationships, too. Goodbye.
Done. Off to other women.
Basically, Outcome Independence.
If it happens, good, you can pursue.
If it doesn't, good, you can go on and find another to pursue.
Me to a HB8 that I used to know and be friends with: Hey. Let's get a drink sometime and catch up.
Her: OK. That sounds great but I don't want you to get the wrong impression because I'm not looking to date or anything. I'm just looking to be friends.
Me: I understand.
Her: When did you want to meet up?
Me: No thanks. Take care.
Her: Ummm OK.
Ain't nobody got time for that.
I don't know. Hear me out.
I have always been someone who believes that if you think hard enough about something, like a science, you can figure it out and find a better way to do things.
The "problem" is this idea of rejection, and particularly the idea of rejection from a "soul mate." These are two concepts that are really important to TRP. Rejection is generally something that we agree should be moved past quickly and with little effort due to abundance. The concept of "soul mate" is something that is more tricky.
We here at TRP tend to say that the soul mate concept is a source of falsehood. I personally tend to feel that this is a bit simplistic. I think the soul mate concept is really important to relationships and sex, especially for men who have romantic or idealistic inclinations.
There is not ONE true soul mate, but many potential soul mates. Still, meeting a potential soul mate is a rare experience. The notion of an abundance mentality generally refers to sexual partners, not life partners. I know TRP is not really interested in that idea of a deeper connection.
I want to figure out a way to open TRP up to these possibilities. It's a really tricky thing though and requires a lot more effort. I don't see anyone else doing it.
Say you meet a girl and you feel like you really, really click with her. I believe that such situations exist, where you really believe on a much deeper level that you connect with someone. For whatever reason you are both on the same wavelength and path. These things happen guys, and they are rare. It's much different from casual sex or just the average date. We're talking about something in you clicking on. A light. Something special. Or it simply feels that way. There is something more with this girl than you feel with other people. You have the desire to really put your all into it. You really are interested. Whereas, with most women you really don't feel particularly interested.
So abundance mentality here actually becomes somewhat irrelevant. Yeah, there are other girls. But you do feel there is a better potential to this particular girl. Of course, this is somewhat tenuous. Sometimes your mind is wrong. You are believing what you want to believe. You are "dreaming" of a different reality. You want her to be different, but actually she is the same as everyone else. You want to be able to be a boy, to be "yourself" and not have to play the game to get her to want you. You know how to play the cards, you know how to do everything. And part of you just wishes that you could just stop doing that and really be loved for who you are. For what you are. You want her to just see you and accept you like you see and accept her. You want to lay with her and just be together. You don't want there to be pressure. You don't want there to be lies. You don't want there to be bullshit. You just want someone to hold you. And you feel like she is the one that can do that with you because you are both similar.
Well, I consider the rare occasion where the chemistry is right that this becomes a possibility to be "soul mate" potential. This is just extremely rare.
The problem is when something goes wrong and your "soul mate mentality" is forced into rejection mode. Say she just isn't responding. She doesn't seem to like you. You're somehow doing something wrong. You're being too forward. You're not really being yourself. You're being weird, a jerk, etc.
Well, that can really cause some problems. Are you just supposed to go into your fucking "abundance mentality" and walk away without a care in the world? Or should you revise your behavior and try to understand why she isn't responding?
I mean, it's conceivable that she isn't responding because you are doing something wrong. There is this idea that any time a girl rejects us, it's just "how it is." But what if you really just did something wrong and you aren't being your best self? I think that's one way of looking at it.
However, it becomes a pretty massive chasm of misery if you spiral into a sort of feedback loop. You try to revise your behavior to "make her like you" and she only seems to back further away and become more disgusted, leading you into worse and worse states of distress and rejection.
This is the really sad and difficult part of a rejection. It's just so fucking heart wrenching. If you are poorly emotionally developed, you can start to even enjoy that sort of feeling. You're trying to hurt yourself because on some level you hate yourself. Instead, you should be prepared to take care of yourself and walk away. You don't owe her. You don't have to convince her. You have to look after yourself first, you know? You don't have to make her like you. Maybe you are soul mates on some level, but something just isn't working. You really have to know when to walk away and move on. It's one of those things in life that I'm learning how to do.
In order to walk away, you really have to love yourself and be willing to take care of your own need for connection and sex. She isn't giving it to you, she isn't giving you a chance, she doesn't care about what you're offering her. She isn't open to your heart and your love. She isn't open to your ideas. She isn't open to your creativity. She isn't open to your world. She doesn't care about you. She isn't open to your hands on her body. She isn't open to you making her orgasm. She isn't open to sucking your cock. She isn't open to you being the one who makes her cum and who holds her. She isn't open to spending time with you or talking to you. She isn't open to watching TV with you and going on dates together. She isn't open to being your friend and your lover. And these are things that you want and you need in your life.
So you have to realize that on a certain level, that's her problem. It's not really something for you to beat yourself up over or just keep wishing was different. On a fundamental level, it's her issue, not yours. She doesn't recognize what's there. And you could keep trying to figure out why, or just realize that the very fact that she doesn't get it or desire it is a sign that she's just not really clued into what you're about as much as you might have thought. She doesn't realize just how valuable you really are and what you really have to offer her. She thinks she can find better elsewhere.
The confusing thing is that maybe she can. And here is where the really Red Pill shit starts to come into play, as far as I can tell. And, seeing that it is Red Pill shit, it's also Extremely Depressing Soul Destroying shit. But maybe I can turn it into something that's actually positive and uplifting if we figure out a way together to make sense of all this.
Truth be told, women are looking for very different things from men. And that's just so fucking frustrating to think about. At the same time, it's a measure of happiness to see how much I can accept it. It's like, I could keep whining about it and wishing it was different. It gets so complicated. But in reality, it isn't all that bad. It's the faulty expectations and emotional issues that make it bad. Not the reality in and of itself.
I am going to try to work through this. You ask yourself: "Maybe if I understood her more, I could have made it work. I could have been different. Maybe I am the problem, not her." Well, maybe it just isn't right. Maybe a good relationship is something that develops naturally with very low effort. A person should never have to contort themselves in order to make a relationship work. If she doesn't seem to want it, that's just how it is. I can see that now. You really have to move on and find someone else. It's not a big deal actually.
You get addicted to the idea of something in your head, but that idea isn't a reflection of the way things actually are. Don't spend so much time thinking about things. Spend time living things. That way you don't enter into delusional ideas about women, and instead just enter into fruitful relationships that actually nourish you.
But you've built up this idealized vision of her in your mind that you think is serving you. Well, it might have in some strange way, but not for long. So you have to get rid of it and throw it out. You want to keep giving declarations of love and dreaming of that kindness and warmth that might have been there. And my tendency is to become really angry and lash out. To become pissed off and start to want to hurt her. I feel like she's being a cunt and I just want to make her feel how she is making me feel. I feel damaged and abandoned. I feel like she has completely disregarded me and that there must be something wrong with her for doing that.
That's my emotional issue, not hers. I haven't grown up or evolved past my own traumas in the past. I'm still hurting from the way I was treated as a child by my own family. And of course from past issues in relationships. I want to hate women. I want to hurt them. I want to make them cry. I want to bring them down. I want to tear them down. I want them to suffer. I have all this anger and hate in me toward women for the way I was treated in the past. Resentment. Hatred. Fury. I feel disgusted with them. I hate the way they think. I hate the way they are. I project my hatred of my own mistreatment onto every women I meet. I haven't learned to forgive my abusers and move past my own resentment and anger in order to really take care of myself and treat myself with respect. That's the only way to become truly confident.
I disagree that TRP is not about giving good advice for "life partners" or LTR's.
You know, I have this dream of finding this unicorn in my head. A girl who mirrors me and lives the type of life I love and enjoy. But the fact is, I've figured this out about women and this has been said on here several times. Women really have no individuality. When it comes down to it, they will mirror their man. So, the fact is, to develop this unicorn or soul mate doesn't require some kind of chemistry that falls from the sky. Chemistry and clicking is fleeting. There is no such thing as chemistry. It's called lust. That's how every relationship starts. Each person is lusting after each other.
The dynamic you talk about is good in theory, but we're talking about the starting point. In some ways, what you say can be dangerous. You say you feel you are on the same wavelength and path. Does she? Maybe. And if she is then in those circumstances it's almost hard for you to fuck up because if she really is that into you from the start then it's usually smooth sailing. If not then you'll be on this board writing some rant about hating women or on AskTRP asking "What did I do wrong today?"
The easier method is to take what you learn from this site and apply it. Whether you think she's a soul mate or not. Always have an abundance mentality. Always put yourself first. Be the one that leads the relationship. If there is a deeper connection that's fine. But at the end of the day, you have to be the stronger. You have to be the one that dictates and leads by example.
I agree. I do think in a sense there are several soul mates in the world. That's because all of us change throughout our lives and are never static. A woman you meet in your 20s may not be the one you want for your 30s. The one in your 30s may not be the one you want for your 40s. The women will change as well.
Interesting post. It made me think. I like that.
This. This is so spot on, I've been wondering how to put exactly this idea so succinctly and you've nailed it bro, great post!
many thanks mate. bang on, and once you fuck a girl everything can change with her becoming more interested in you, but once again that very much depends on the guy and the level of attraction, which good sex will temporarily increase and it's during this 'honeymoon phase' that you should learn as much as you can about the girl before you make any LT plans ... once the novelty wears off if you're not compatible you're fucked in more ways than one.
This is why when the guy is a "rock" it makes it much easier for his girl to be solid too.
edit:you should do a thread saying exactly this and title it "There is no such thing as chemistry. It's called lust." ... woman know this far better than men IME, shit, a woman taught me this long ago! She literally said "It's not love, it's lust" when we were discussing it and by the end of our conversation she had me convinced! That was 30yrs ago.
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So I have all that fucking hatred. I really hate them. I really want them to fuck off and feel horrible for what and who they are. I want them to be down in the fucking dirt and I want them to beg for forgiveness. But they won't. And I am holding onto the hate and it is hurting me - only me. I am the only one who is hurting because of my anger. I never let it go. I never moved past it. And now I am in misery and pain because of it. I have to just let it go and move past it. I have to forgive them. I have to accept myself and take care of myself. I have to accept my anger and process it.
When I really accept my own anger, I am able to really live with it and move on and start to just do what I need to do for me. When I hold onto anger, and just push it down or IDK - not accept it basically ... it just keeps eating away and making me suffer. When I accept it and just let it go, I can feel a lot better. I was mistreated. That's the end of it. And I can't "get back" at anyone. I just have to move on from those people and those experiences and become stronger. I will probably have more bad experiences. But wanting to punish every woman for that is just so fucking unhealthy. It's making my own life worse. I can honesty see that now. I have to just accept it and let it go. I have to forgive them. I have to work to forgive them for how they are. And in some sense, to forgive women for what they are and the way that they act toward me.
The fact as far as I can tell is that women really do have some abhorrent ways of seeing the world that are built around their meanness. I don't know what I'm saying. I just really do believe that women have some very trivial and idiotic ways of doing things. I still really like them and care about them though. We don't have to be the same. I am allowed to be annoyed and work past that. I accept it. I know that men and women are never going to see eye to eye. That's just how it is.
We have to learn to be friends and try to work together. The whole point of relationships is learning to work together to love one another and care about one another. I know that men want everything to be easy. But it isn't. We have to really try to understand women. I know this sounds like cuck-beta bullshit but hear me out.
I think we have to really try to understand women and their needs just as much as our own. We have to look at them and understand why they like what they like, and try to love them for it. We can't just hate on them all the time for being how they are. I mean, look at men. I know lots of girls that I think are unattractive and I don't really pay much attention to them. They don't make me hard. You know? I'm not trying to be mean. I'm just being honest toward myself about what I like and what I want. It's not a competition. It's not necessarily that big of a deal. It's just sex.
At the same time, when you meet someone you really like, I can tell you that traditional looks do go out the window. You can find a decent girl (in terms of biological physical looks/attraction) to be much hotter when you really like her. You want to fuck her brains out and you strive to give her sexual love because you like how she is. Still, if a girl is fat or slobby or whatever, finding her unattractive isn't really something you need to think about. That's just natural. Sorry. No guilt necessary.
The same thing tends to go the other way. If you're not cool, smart, funny, open, etc... confident. The things women are looking for, then why would you expect them to find you attractive? I mean, you want to just be an emotional or mental slob and just expect them to "accept you for who you are" on some level. And that's OK, we all need that. At the same time, you're not looking for a friend, right? You're looking for someone you want to bang. Just call it what it is. You want to fuck your soul mate. You're looking for someone to fuck around with. You want to put your cock in her mouth. You have to really be aware of these things.
So you want to have these warm, dreamy feelings of love and connection as well as some sort of sexual attraction. And you get lost in these feelings of hate or anger from bad experiences in the past, delusions or whatever. And you blame her for not liking you. I am telling you - it's not her fault. Work on yourself. If you're having issues with women that you think you like, I think it's my fault. She's not attracted to me because the way I am acting and being is not attractive. I want to be attractive for her because I want to make her wet and I want to fuck her. I want to give her those things.
I want to offer her the value I know that I have inside of me. Why would I choose to keep being a slob about my emotions, conduct, mentality, and life? Why would I blame her for not being attracted to my being a mental and emotional slob? We men tend to feel butthurt that girls won't just accept us.
I feel butthurt that I have to "change for her." It's like, "BUT I'M FINE ALREADY!!!" Yeah. Sure I am. I guess I should just stop improving myself because my ego feels damaged. My ego feels damaged admitting that I could be better. More confident. More emotionally healthy. More secure. And I want to just be fine how I am. I don't want to have to be "that guy" - the "douchebag" who is actually just normal and healthy. I would have to admit that something is wrong with me now. I would have to admit that her desires and wants in the man she wants to fuck are normal, and that it isn't HER fault, but mine.
I guess that's the first step. Accepting that I want to change. That I am willing to be "that guy." The healthy guy. Accepting that that guy isn't a douchebag. That it's OK for me to be secure, confident, and all those things. It's OK to be attractive to her. It's OK for me to be healthy and strong. This is the thing that I want to internalize.
Women's attraction to men is exactly the same as men's attraction to women in most ways. We both want a confident, hot partner. We want someone smart and funny. Someone fun. Someone enjoyable. Someone who takes care of their body and life. Someone who knows how to have sex. Someone who has their life in order.
Many men think they can just not be those things, or think they can just keep doing things the way that they're doing them and expect to somehow enjoy relationships with high quality women. Then they get pissed off when women aren't interested. They blame women, largely due to their own emotional traumas or whatever that might explain that irrational reaction. That's just completely insane.
It's complete bullshit. It's absolute, 100% bullshit.
I think men need to be men. But we need to let go of blaming women for not finding us attractive. We need to work on our own minds and lives. We need to be the thing that we find attractive in women. We have to rise to our own occasion. Rise to our own needs. Take care of ourselves. I think TRP is right about a lot. It's still largely just sex advice. Seduction. Pickup. Little trinkets of wisdom on dating game that we try to use.
But that is still missing the big picture that TRP has unique to it. It's about being a man and accepting women. It's about realizing that men and women really are equal in terms of sexual relationships. We're the same. We want the same things, more or less.
I want to get over my ego and my attachment to my "current self." Fuck my current self. I don't give a shit about this body, this emotional state, this belief system. I accept that I am not as attractive to women as I could be. I accept that this is my fault and I am letting go of my delusions about myself and my life. I am not at my best. I am an emotional and mental slob. I am not confident. I am not playful. I am not funny. I am not hot. I am not cool. I am not relaxed. I am not nourishing. I am not caring. I am selfish. I do not have as much to offer as I thought. I don't care about her. I care about me me me me me. I want her to take care of my every need while forgetting about her own. I want to be allowed to be a fat, lazy slob with emotional issues and to somehow enjoy a relationship. Well fuck me. I reject this self entirely.
I want to give women my best self. And I want to give myself my best possible life. I reject all my ego attachment to this idea of my having a "real self" that other women have to "accept." This is just fucking bullshit. I accept that I am better than this. I accept change. I accept improvement. I accept being more attractive. I accept women as equal in the sexual marketplace. I accept letting go of my preconceived notions about myself. I accept letting go of my need to feel like I am "OK already." I accept letting myself change into a different person. A better person. A stronger, more confident, more secure, more caring, more attractive, more fun, more loving, more healthy person. A sexier person. A more masculine and mature person. A happier person. Someone who can really offer something to others. And who really takes care of myself. I accept letting go of my current self and really becoming what I want to be. I totally accept this on every single level without any sense of anger or shame. I feel no sense of hate or resentment. I accept it. I let go of my whiny bitching and my ego. I let go of that shit and accept that I can be better. And I actively put effort into moving forward.
Can someone summarise this book in one sentence for me?
It's actually a good read. Sums up quite a bit. Read it on the shitter if you must
He's on drugs + BP conflation. He's saying he's pissed off becoz his
"one/his soul mate"oneitis unicorn is not coming to the partywhy yes, yes you are!
The guy says "soul mates are rare" and then explains a situation that clearly isn't with a loving female, and 'wonders why' "You're being too forward. You're not really being yourself. You're being weird, a jerk," isn't working!
ffs! I had to check to see which sub I was in!
edit: format mistake repair
I was thinking the same thing
I got three paragraphs in and nodded off. Best I could do.
He touches on too many different things.
tl;dr
Be the best version of yourself. Understand women.
Sorry man but this is bullshit. There is no soulmate and they are not as rare as you think. The soulmate is prolortional on you SMV... because women will give you more effort into the relation. Don't fool yourself.
You may be right about that part, but home boy has some good insights in that twenty page ramble.
Yes. Some parts are off base, but there's some thoughtful stuff in there. Some stuff really hit home.
Whether you agree with every point in this post, TRP could certainly use much more measured insight like this to offset the autistic black and white thinking that is so prevalent.
So many try-hard alpha (probably younger) posters come across as if they are emotionless robots with "rock solid frame" but that does not jive with how most people experience life.
It's also usually just a fucking miserable way to live.
At the end of the day you can focus on the ugliness of life or the beauty. You can focus on our differences or our commonalities. You can choose resentment or compassion. Blame or introspection ... Etc etc etc.
Can you please emphasize on the 'equal' part? Great comment.
To put it briefly, no matter how deep that 'connection' is with a woman, she is still a woman and equally as likely to love you and leave you like any other (see a past submission in TRP about AWALT titled 'all guns are loaded').
The advice of TRP in relation to LTRs (Long Term Relationships) is still applicable, and as such there is no need for TRP to cover material about finding a deeper connection.
Some LTR basics I've picked up through my reading of TRP: lay good pipe (sex, can't spell relationship without relations), captain and first mate leadership of the relationship, be the least invested in the relationship (be able to walk away), hobbies that don't involve the SO (an outlet you can use to burn off steam), keep an abundance mentality (again least invested), be as good or a better version of yourself than when you first met the SO (means her cheating on you will need to be with someone not necessarily better than you, just different/exotic ), good male friends to vent to (vulnerability means different things to men and women), have an exit strategy [especially if your married ouch ] and know when to use it (girls night out, sex getting less enthusiastic and whatever other signs of waning interest leading to a branch swing). Do all that right and everything else will take care of itself for however long it lasts.
Regardless of all the above, a girl is never yours and it is simply your turn with her. Be it a few minutes in a club bathroom getting an awful head job from a drunk skank or a decades long marriage with the most feminine of women (or rare beyond accidental death/suicide "'til death do us part"), it is just your turn.
The deeper connection you speak of is a fantasy/drama/adventure from the likes of Disney that, while few men would complain about having were such possible, is not realistic and you have a bitterer pill than I had to swallow to accept that reality.
TL/DR: A girl is never yours, it is just your turn, no matter the depth of connection you believe you have with her.
Damn dude. That was intense. Also I'm definitely interested in philosophically exploring new ideas within TRP. I think it's unlikely, yet still somewhat possible that a "soul mate" archetype of a person could exist for other similarly compatible people, yet I think the context of our culture makes it impossible for this to really work nowadays.
That's why patriarchy existed. That's why conservative jewish culture and muslim culture still operates very much on its own terms. They keep communities tight, family units tighter, and heavily police women and their "honor." The only thing that really keeps hypergamy in check is fear of being socially ostracized. Conservative jewish and muslim culture incessantly reinforces the importance of fidelity, loyalty, and conservative behavior from women.
Feminism in the west has destroyed the family, positive male identity, and it's destroyed romantic/idealized notions of "true love."
I'd like to continue these types of conversations with you and others though. These topics greatly interest me. I'd like there to be more philosophical discussions on TRP. Pandora's box is still just opening for modern unplugged men, and though the future looks bleak and many say we should just abandon it and go our own way, I think it's too soon for some of the younger generations to give up (I'm in my early 20s) on trying to steer society in a healthier direction.
You're describing oneitis.
Yes.
Abundance mentality means you can move on if you want to, it doesn't mean you have to. Of course you can invest more into a women that you like more but you should always be able to just move on. Don't ever put yourself down for another human being. Always have your pride and act accordingly.
I'll be blunt. You're wrong. OP's post is spot on. Your response is so wordy, I didn't even read it past the opening sentence. Leave the talking to the women, and stop thinking so much.
An old plate ended up friend zoning me. She actually told me I needed to crawl back into the friend zone, that she didn't want old men like me.
If you guessed, yes, she is running head first into the wall. She even gave up a well-paid, successful BB too.
I told her three things... I don't live in the friendzone I was disappointed to see her be that disrespectful to me And to have a good one
She went off the deep end, threatened me with a lawyer, etc. I went radio silent. Two days later she apologized for the text saying it was meant for someone else.
I think I've said one thing to her in the last six months. She had already pissed me off with disrespectful behavior which caused her to drop from top plate to "time can be made available if I don't have anything else better to do".
Now, I wouldn't hit it even if she threw it at me. Not worth the time/effort.
Abundance mentality is such a nice thing.
Little question about SMV.. is this why girls fucks celebs no matter attractive they are? because of their SMV? and is this also the reason that celeb women only fucks celeb men?
This is why it is also important to not suggest dinner for a date idea. We aren't meal vouchers gentlemen.
Dinner is a fine date. Breaking bread together is good for relationships of every sort. It isn't a good FIRST date, because it puts too much pressure on the interaction and takes too much time.
If she accepts going for dinner, it can be perceived as a 50/50 transaction, she meets you, you meet her and you both split be bill. The meal voucher analogy doesn't need apply in the initial dates, but I get what you mean
Law 36; DISDAIN THINGS YOU CANNOT HAVE: IGNORING THEM IS THE BEST REVENGE.
From the 48 laws of power by Robert Greene
Last year I asked a girl out and she turned me down, but I didn't sweat it and continued as is, talked to her in a friendly enough fashion when I needed to. And recently she's always been the one coming up to me to talk. This post rings true, don't sweat it and sometimes they do weird things
Everyone should read the Bonecrcker blog at least once. It is from 2003, this is 12 years ago, he was still in the anger phase, but everything he says is spot on.
Here is the link (http://no-maam.blogspot.ca/2003/01/the-book-of-bonecrker-table-of-contents.html)
Some solid advice:
Bonecrker #35 - You Mean NOTHING To A Woman Until You Have Sex
Bonecrker #75 - Most Women Don’t Want a Man Who Isn’t Choosy
Bonecrcker #90 – There Is No Point In Approaching Any Woman Who Doesn’t Look At You And Go “Yum”
Bonecrcker #182 – Women Want Strong Emotions But Don’t Care If Those Emotions Are Negative
The method I have found that produces the best results (includes dread/icing, abundance mentality) even with the HIGHEST quality of woman is this:
Treat the girl like a princess. Make her like you. Get her used to your aggressive and flattering demeanor. Pursue her hardcore. Blow past all shittests. Go in for the kill.
She gives you the talk: "I like you but Im sorry I have a boyfriend. Right now we have to be friends."
"you are friendzoning me?" - let her know you see the big picture here.
"for now, yes." - I want all the benefits of having both of you at my whim.
"okay". You go cold.
Ice her hard. No more texting all day. No smiles and treating her like you will do anything to protect her precious eggs. Nothing. Reply to her texts with one word answers. This will drive her completely bonkers.
Going from being worshiped to being completely average will be too much for her. She will break.
"Okay, I know things have been weird with my situation... we need to talk."
Meet up that night and get ultra physical. This time she will let you.
Tried and true, my friends, tried and true. That hard part is, of course, maintaining frame.
Little problem - too many orbiters are out there to serve as emotional tampons for chicks.
If a woman gives you a pass, its best just to next her and forget. While I dont doubt that that flirting hard in the very beginning might generate one or two flips, most of the time, when she does a pass on you, it means you aren't attractive enough for her. This will rarely change.
A woman that is attracted to you will create windows of opportunity for you - irregardless if she has a guy already. Maybe its when she suddenly starts going to the gym same time as you, or keeps frequently getting drunk around you, or keeps accidentally touching your inner thigh while chilling at after work parties.
The point is - dating is a numbers game - economize and rationalize your time and energy. Chasing a chick is not a good use of your time
Yeah, got "friendzoned" recently, at first felt a little pissed, but then I realized so what? It literally changes nothing about my situation unless I let it. Besides, she's still a cool person to be around when we happen to be in the same social setting, and some of her friends are definitely down.
This is super simple but it's the best advice I've ever read on this sub, and it's probably the biggest mistake I see guys make.
The other side of abundance. It's not just about leaving her if she becomes tedious, or not caring if she leaves you. It's not giving a fuck if you never get anywhere in the first place. Because there's 3,499,999,999 more of them.
I don't usually post here, but this post strikes home 100%. I'm not typically what anybody would consider a shining example of a "red pill" guy, but I'm pretty good at figuring out when women are fucking with me. Normally, I can shake off relationships in a week or two, with one exception.
*Pathetic BP trigger warning*
Girl I was totally infatuated with had me on the hook for five years. We've never lived in the same city, so we've always kept in touch via text. Literally every day for five years I thought I could make our relationship work out somehow. We both had our flings, but nothing stuck on either end, and we always ended up talking again. Finally, I was reading up a bit on this subreddit, and I knew I had to draw a line. Went down to visit last weekend, drew a line in the sand, and she turned me down. I reacted..... poorly.... mostly because I knew I was losing a dear friend, as well as a love interest, but a week later and my head is more clear than it's been in 5 years.
*/BP *
I just wanted to thank this community for the clarity your posts can bring to even those readers like me that aren't totally dedicated to the RP lifestyle. Thank you OP, and thank you RP. Since I started reading at the beginning of this year, I've cleaned up my act a lot, lost 40 pounds, and I've got two dates this weekend.
Keep on keeping on friends.
I like the one step back, two steps forward approach. If I am not getting what I want, fuck it, what do I have to lose
I feel that to this should be added the caveat:
Make sure that the friend-zone in your life for women who are not fucking you and benefiting you socially or professionally is a very narrow area about 6 inches wide and 2 feet long on the curb outside your apartment building.
No need to be rude or discourteous, but politely explain that the zone is for short term loading and unloading only and that other (potentially useful friends) are waiting to use that spot.
Paul Janka the New York Casanova compiled a spreadsheet. His avg. was only around 10%. You could say he was in the top 5% of Alpha males in his peak. If he can only get 10% as a top tier any other male should be proud being even close. OP is dead on, if she's not into you hard next and the next one might be.
It almost seems to simple to be true.
When the girl I hitting on doesn´t show interest at all and she just want to be friend of mine I just move on and keep, at least, a minimum contact with her, to cut social interaction is worng IMO and Id like to explain why.
First of all, keeping in contact with her shows maturity, she, and what is maybe most important, OTHERS (you never know who and why is watching you interacting with that girl) will see you as a great person, not a nice guy, but great. When I say, keep the contact, I dont mean talk with her every day, or be funny and nice when you find her in the grocery or in a social reunion with other people, just a small talk, ask her for the family, her job, college, etc, talk 1 - 2 minutes and move on, a ONE line whatsapp greeting on her birthday (if you remember the date) will not kill you, new years eve? send her a "May this new year be good for you. Greets", if she respond with more than a "Thank you" just ignore her, you made your part, if you want to be some kind of leader one of your duties is to remember people around you sometimes, remember people =/= to ask for attention.
Whatever happens, have been friendzoned or not, in someway you added a new person in your life, you invested time on her, dont waste that efford, you dont know how that person will give you something valuable in the future.
I dunno, there's really 2 sides. Know when to plow and know when to back off. The Rake exists for a reason, and it's because women are hardwired to give false-negative signals. It sucks because you have to deal with the whole "rapey" thing and whether or not you're crossing the "stalker line." Obviously there's risk and you have to use your best judgment. I would suggest it's easier plowing with a woman you're not too emotionally entangled with because you can back out easier.
I was watching Shark Tank and one of the 'Sharks'(investors) said: the number one rule in sales is to focus your effort where you are seeing results
This is the best thing I've ever read.
From.peronal experience... do not be this guy. I was this guy and THEN some. For your own saity and the girls ( becuse i know someof you fuckers are lil creepers and take it to far) just leave her be.
And also add.. Don't ever FUCKING EVER spend 1 penny on her. If she ask you to hang out, she needs to pay her half. And if you have a shit ton of plates to spin, she should be the absolute last to ask to chill.
Constantly be improving yourself. The biggest thing. Reminded of this today. It hurts when you get rejected or neglected, no doubt. The key is to use this pain to act as a guidance tool to navigate back towards yourself and don't ever over-invest... in anyone, except yourself!
Simple and to the point. Thanks for this.
Yeah this effect tends to have a rather paradoxial effect. Ironically the more you pursue something the easier it will slip from your fingers. Id say OP got his point across fairly well but I would add how in sync this is with Oneitis, these pursuits work in tandem and will likely be a waste of precious time.
TLDR: You say "NEXT!" and move on.
If she comes crawling to YOU instead after you NEXT her,don't instantly give in. Make her beg,and give her only 1/10 of that.
Abundance mentality is KING.(This can also apply to other oppurtunites...why beg to be in that "clique"when you can get better elsewhere? Why be chained to one oppurtunity like a slave when you can be treated WAY better at another place?.)
If people call you out for "chickening out/abandoning them",then just laugh it off and tell them to get someone else.
Remember,there's billions of people here.Just as your disposable in their eyes,they themselves are disposable to you. You just need to open your eyes.
What ever you do don't allow yourself to be friend zoned, it's friend with sex or no friend at all. It's a two way Street, only once she has sucked your dick nice and hard and swallowed every drop of your man juice should you even consider rewarding her with "fun friendly activities", your time is precious use it wisely
Everyone is talking about abundance, but not how to deal with this girl if she is part of your social circle.
Should I soft next her? Or proceed being friendly towards her? What to do?
I dont think its always necessary to move on.
Sometimes there are other assets that can be derived from continuing the engagement. Hot friends, social networking, social proof, fashion advice, personal shopper services, particularly if those are weak spots in your game to begin with. A small social circle is cancer for PUA.
What is necessary, is to assess their value to your life, determine whether or not it is greater than the minimum maintenance level effort required to keep them around as a friend, and if so, quarantine any interest you had in her and friendzone her right back. Not always easy but it can be done.
Dont do masses of shit for her. Dont be going round at stupid o clock to console her when Chad has pumped and dumped her again. Do exactly for her what you would do for a male friend. Dont be a Beta, basically.
But there are definitely benefits that can be derived from maintaining a connection while also following abundance mentality. Not least the fact that if she sees you gaming and succeeding with her friends, the odds that she will un-friendzone you rise dramatically. At which point of course, you knock her the fuck back and say "Im sorry babe i just dont see you that way"
this is good solid advice put simply.
thanks OP
well said, faceless man from Game of Thrones
thank yo so much for this .I've just got friend zone just a few days ago . it was all going well until another guy stepped into the picture . right now I feel angry and hurt as fk . but at least now I kno it's not their fault . am thr typical nice guy. I get told that a lot buy girls . the last month or so it starting to feel like an insult
Remember that if a girl doesn't like you, just wants to be friends, generally is not sexually available to you despite the fact that she does know you, she is rejecting you.
How do you handle this rejection? Do you double down on your feelings, the feelings that she doesn't want? Feelings that she'll resent you for, feelings that she'll think of you as creepy for having? No.
Don't be social and move past her as a way to get back at her, but keep in mind that, that by doing so is the only way to combat that rejection. Coming at it head on is a waste.