Most Guys Give Up Way Too Easy + FR

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March 16, 2016


Let's talk about how to actually talk to women. Many people read all the important theory and tactics on it from seduction reddit or PUA sites, many people get confident body language they need to have or at least emulate, and they get the basic "gist" of how to flirt. These guys are all missing one key ingredient - persistance.

Women 101

These guys do not understand the nature of women, which leads to them interpretting individual acts of rejection as complete, final rejections. Women create resistance and barriers to test men. No means no to what you just tried, but try something else, I'm not optimistic about your chances, but you're not blown out yet. If I really think there's no way I want anything to do with you, I'll say so.

Before I start this example, please read it with the following principle in mind. Women are defensive, men are offensive. Our symbol is a spear, her symbol is a shield. This has been understood in all cultures since the beginning of time, and it's the same in most mammalian species. The female erects defenses that SEEM like a rejection, but in reality are more like playful shoves. She erects defenses that turn weak men away, saving her the trouble of having her time wasted by them. If she wants you to leave her alone, if she really thinks you're not a viable candidate at all, then she will end eye contact, turn away, speak in a really harsh tone, and so on. Push it to that point; you want to be hearing the actual rejection from her, not just leaving in anticipation of it coming.

Some may see it as beta. Like you're expending more effort or not being man enough to take your L and walk away. I get that. If you want to call it beta, I don't really mind. It's reeled in more pussy than acting aloof. At the end of the day, you will occasionally look like that guy who's been rejected but is still trying. You have to have thick skin and not worry about other people seeing you potentially getting blown out.

Field Report Time

For example, the girl I'm seeing now I met at a gym. Now, everyone knows it's rude to approach at the gym, no one wants to be interrupted in their workout. So initially she's standoffish - I got water at the same time as her and started talking about kettlebells. She's probably an 8 or so, pale blonde type, and in lululemons, top and bottom, wearing makeup. No doubt she knows that she's hot and she used to getting leered at, but probably not approached. Most guys are probably intimidated off by her rdf (resting bitch face). First thing that popped into my mind because she was using them when we had first made eye contact. Then she abruptly says "sorry gotta go back to my set" and starts to turn.

I say "Hey, wait."

I didn't actually have a plan of what to say, I just saw that my window was closing and I blurted out something to keep it open. I felt the micro-rejection, but I didn't feel like she had blown ME out.

She waits and raises her eyebrows in a mix of annoyance and amusement.

I don't have gold to work with, I'm just making shit up. "You need a workout buddy? I'm ready to swing these balls."

She rolls her eyes. "No." Done, right?

But she's making eye contact and I just feel like I'm not really rejected yet. Obviously she just said no, but I felt like she would have walked away if she wanted the conversation to end. She's not walking away. It's not looking good for your boy, but until that bitch tells you to either go away WITH HER TONE AND BODY LANGUAGE or she herself moves away, you have not blown yourself out.

So I just stand there and say "Ok. That's fine. I don't actually want to swing kettlebells with you, I just want your number."

"Oh my god, does that actually work on girls?"

I shrug and say "we're about to find out, aren't we." I hand her my phone.

"I can't believe I'm doing this," she says as she enters it in.

She me the next day, a Friday, and I took her to bar at 9, so very clearly not a "dinner date". I don't care about "waiting to show that I am disinterested. She fucking knows I'm interested, there is never going to be doubt about that because the man had to approach.

She agreed to meet for a drinking date, which generally is a good sign, but then she gave me a lot of LMR after I got her back to my place. I was really surprised; usually if she agrees to go out to drink with me, it means she's pretty on board - it's very obvious what that date means. Still, we were making out and she had pushed away or pulled back when I tried to get more and more handsy, and the second time said "No I don't feel like I know you well enough for more."

I felt a little anger, like what the hell, she clearly thinks I'm a beta, maybe she sees that my life seems kinda boring now, maybe she's thinking he is TOO into me. Maybe I overplayed. Doubting myself now. These microsecond thoughts, they are your brain out of control. You have to control your brain, not let it control you. She has not blown me out, but she's trying to see if I'm going to blow myself out. She wants me to win, not lose, remember that.

"That's cool. I agree. We totally don't know each other well enough this." I continue.

She laughs a little and goes along for a while, but again says "Ok, seriously though."

"You're right, we're a good team. You're responsible, I'm not. There's a lot about you that I want to get to know, too. We'll get around to that. Eventually." I hold eye contact and then next thing I know, she's taking my shirt off.

I felt like I was 16 again, my dick had damn near scraped itself to death on my jean zipper. This girl had really put up a tough defense. All in all, she played the game well. Respect.

Turns out, she's actually pretty smart and seems low partner count relative to North American standards for her age, at least from my reading of her. And you see why, her LMR killed off most guys who approached her in the escalated manner. Her upbringing and life experience and personality all converged to result in a woman who has a decent resistance to giving pussy away; she's been taught the value of going the traditional courtship / dating route.

She's higher RMV, but a BYPRODUCT of higher RMV is often - not always, but often - increased difficulty. She's harder to lay, because if she wasn't hard to law, other dudes would be ramming that. See, her high RMV necessitates that she be harder for the generic guy, and you are a generic guy until you separate yourself out from the pack. If you give up easy, if that's your personality, all you are doing is sabotaging yourself with girls who are better, the girls you actually want.

Hopefully this illustrates the importance of being persistant. There were like 6 opportunities where I didn't have a great answer, but I just didn't REJECT MYSELF. Each roadblock I guarantee you would have 90% of guys thinking "Aww shucks, well that's that, I tried, did the best I could do but I'm done." They can give themselves a pat of the bat for having the balls to approach, they definitely came out ahead of the wallflower, but they didn't really want to succeed.

The Lesson

When you want to succeed more than you want to preserve your ego or look cool to your friends, then you will succeed.

When in doubt, look at her body language. If she's facing you and looking at you, she hasn't been dismissed yet. She hasn't dismissed YOU yet. Just blab. Say something to show that you are sure she'll come around, and you're aware of the fact that she hasn't said no yet.

Never ever reject yourself. Force her to actively reject you - passive rejection is NOT rejection. I've seen guys reject themselves out of a set because they went in, said a line too soft to be heard, and the girls looked at them like "huh? What?" He saw the confused and unenthused faces, and said "err, sorry" and turned around. Pathetic. Just plant your feet.

What about when you're not at the club/bar/PU scene? What about in high school? What about in my hatha yoga class? What about...

This applies to guys who are pursuing women INSIDE of closed ecosystems too. This is a fancy way of saying schools, colleges, workplaces, social circles, and so on. People who you often develop some kind of peer relationship with and then you're trying to hit on them and bang them on top of that. This is where a LOT of guys will reject themselves either pre-emptively or after the initial dreaded LJBF or I don't see you that way. They will assume she's not going to be sexually into them and focus on building a friendship first (aka full retard), or they will nut up and ask her, but just not in a confident, dominant way. She says "I like you as a friend, sorry if that's not what you want to hear. I hope things won't be awkward?"

Most guys will be head down, say "OK" and then leave.

I'll say something like "You'll come around." I'll ignore them for a while. Try to fuck one of their friends (this is how you fuck the girl who friendzoned you, btw, my high school RPers. You fuck her best friend, she'll fuck you. I just taught you how to come in the side entrance.

I'll be giving them space, not going to go aspie on them. Then I'll chat again when I'm at a high point. When I have something that makes me a better candidate than last time. Maybe I'm starting to get recognized more in our social circle, and I'm hosting some events. Maybe I've gotten more time to develop and I know some of her friends have said positive things about me. I'm not looking for much, just some shred to signal that I have better circumstances.

I'll ask her out again. Etc. If she's still negative, but she's LESS negative than before, then I'm thinking progress. My dick's closer than it was. If her reaction is completely a "No and never" then I will back off. But see, if you at least are clean, in decent shape, well dressed, and you don't speak weird, she'll usually not hard-NO you like that.

Same thing with "I have a boyfriend" when you're out (and thus she's clearly OUT looking for something, even if she does have a boyfriend.)

"Ok. Respect. Are you allowed to have male friends. Male friends that you have ONE drink with?"

"No I don't think he'd be cool with that."

"Not ONE drink with a PLATONIC friend. One drink you paid for yourself, you didn't even let me buy it for you, there's no way you're not allowed to do that."

What can she say? See, she knows I'm not actually coming on as platonic (that is why I can say it. It's so obviously not true). By using the word "allow", I trigger her inner feminist to rear its head and say "no one tells me what I can't do."

Win or Lose, You Win

Now, you might not actually pick this woman up. Sometimes these hoes is loyal, sometimes they ain't. Sometimes these hoes ain't loyal, but you're just not good enough to get her to cheat. But you need to force her to make that decision; don't make it for her.

If you do not believe me and you think this will just lead to public embarassment and no pussy increase, then I urge you to just try it out. Three times rule. Give yourself three strikes - only blow yourself out after you hear three rejections. You are Rocky and I have decreed that the definition of "going the distance" in this context. Last three rounds, and I guarantee you that your chances of getting pussy will rise at least 33%. Because ultimately, when you buckle down, meet her eyes, and say "game on. I'm going to try to take what I want, and I don't think you WANT to stop me" and then you follow through by continuing your game, you're showing her that you are a man of tenacity and discernment. You know what you want, you know it when you see it, and you will do what it takes to get it.

You still might be too low SMV to seal the deal, but this will up your stock in her eyes because you played to win, not to "not lose".

Aspie Disclaimer

To close, I'd like to stress that this does not mean be an aspie at any point. Do learn to read social cues and body signals. Back off if she's really not having it, like REALLY not having it. If it's at work, don't be an idiot, be very careful, you have to protect your career first. If it's on a dark alleyway at night or on a grimey subway, only hit on her once and take her first "no" at face value. (Yeah, I will still holler at a ho in the dark. If she's nervous and not into it, I won't persist. It's the one exception to the 3x rule.

Be smart about it.

But if you're comparing a smart but timid guy to a dumb but bold guy... who do you think gets more ass? I'm guessing almost all of you err way too far in the direction of the smart but timid guy. Try erring too far on the side of the dumb but bold guy. As a result, you might just end up exactly where you want to be.

Post Information
Title Most Guys Give Up Way Too Easy + FR
Author Thotwrecker
Upvotes 711
Comments 117
Date 16 March 2016 02:49 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
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[–]verify_account102 points103 points  (16 children) | Copy

Great post with examples. I think the micro rejections are going to be tough for most guys, and I have my own example. I was flirting with the girl and I made a joke that cast her in a sexual light. She responded a little harshly that she doesn't like sexist jokes. Now at first I was taken back. If this girl thinks I'm attractive why does a playful joke like this offend her? Does she see me as a non-sexual betabucks? I thought about it, got mad for a second, then realized it was just a shit test. I agreed and amplified and she was all grins.

I'm glad I didn't let a small setback completely throw me off.

[–]wll89a15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy

Out of your curiosity, how did you respond?

[–]wont_tell_i_refuse_3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

I just look at micro rejections as shit tests. Hardly even notice them.

[–]CQC34 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

The micro rejections are a funny little thing that destroys guys still entrenched in the BP mindset. "What, you mean she doesn't mean what she says?!"

[–]wont_tell_i_refuse_0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm not really convinced it deserves to be a concept outside of the pre-existing "shit test".

[–]Casual_Tits0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Interesting way of looking at it. Makes a lot of sense actually.

The rejections are asking: What type of man are you? One that gives up? Or one that persists?

[–]Hairy_Pooltable1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy

I'm not quite getting something here. It was my understanding that making a joke like that and just agreeing with her through a lie just to get closer to your goal is beta. The feeling I get from this sub is that in that situation, you would tell her you thought the joke was funny and move on. I'm confused.

[–]2PragmaticRedTruth12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy


The ENTIRE world is a game. How can you best play your cards? There is no one size fits rule to everything. What this guy did to this girl at the gym, may not have worked with someone else. The point is, what do you want? What are you willing to do for it? And what is the best way you can do it? Really, it all comes down to how well you know the games and understand people and how much you give a fuck about their opinion.

In this situation, like most, it was a standard shit test. Of course she is to respond negatively to a theatening joke, one that threatens her sexuality. However, this gentleman agreed with her, something she totally wasn't expecting. The confusion and her lack of ability to understand what his motives are, what points he is trying to get across really don't leave her anything less than turned on. It's really not confusing when you start to look at things in pieces. He should have responded negatively to her, he left her surprised.

[–]ColdTheory2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

You've got a lot to learn young padawan. You have to learn to play the game. ;)

[–]reddittt 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Could you explain further? Does agree and amplify mean to say it with 100% seriousness, or should I smile and say it sarcastically?

[–]1Sergnb21 points22 points  (1 child) | Copy

The way i have interpreted "agree and amplify" all this time is to take a shit test and make a joke out of it by agreeing with it and making it a ridiculous situation to show her that she is silly to think that it would bother you, thus making you pass it.

Example: "you are definitely the shortest guy i have dated". Wrong answer: Get salty about it. This includes things like citing country averages and stating you are actually above them, getting butthurt and saying something like "didn't stop you from meeting me", or making an autist joke like "yeah but short guys are better in bed" or something like that.

Another wrong answer: just agree with her and shit on yourself too. This is probably what has confussed you. You think agree and amplify means having this exchange "You are the shortest guy I have dated". "Yeahh I know I am kinda short, it bothers me a little bit but I make up for it in other areas". Really easy to play that one poorly and end up accidentally shitting on yourself. I know i have done it in the past back when I thought self deprecating humor was the funniest shit in the world, and it has never ended well. That kind of humor can be very effective if used properly, or reaaally screw you over if you overdo it.

The Good answer: Joke about you and tom cruise using the same boot stores, joking about her exboyfriends being so tall you want them to join your bball team, joking about needing one of those extender robot arms to reach the cereals. In general, just taking the comment and giving it a fun spin. She laughs, she sees the comment doesn't tap into insecurities, and if the joke was good you just demonstrated you have a quick wit and a silver tongue, which needless to say is always good.

This applies to so many different shit tests that it has become a standardized advice on how to deal with them around here. From "you only want me for sex" to "that woman over there was looking at you really intense". But be careful tho, some shit tests are not meant to be handled. Some of them follow the good old rule of "the only winning move is not to play".

In essence and addressing your point, yes, you are right, you would be engaging in beta behaviour by laughing at her comment and agreeing with it, hoping that the flattery and pedestaling you are trying to make her feel will make her like you more. What you ought to be doing is taking the energy from her comment and spinning it on its back, exposing its belly for the silly comment it is and letting both of you laugh at it. But not by actually stating something like "ah don't say silly things" (guaranteed 100% chance you will make a woman mad at some point if you keep using that phrase, trust me). Think of it as performing verbal aikido. You don't defend yourself by attacking back. You don't defend yourself by blocking and deflecting. You don't defend yourself by letting more punches come on until your opponent is tired. You defend yourself by taking the incoming blow and turning it into your weapon. You intercept the blow and slide out of the way so the blow ends up tripping itself up under its own weight. You agree and amplify

[–]1RXRob6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

"It just makes it easier to stare at your arse"

[–]verify_account3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's really simple. You take what she says, agree with her and amplify to absurdity.

Her: "You never take me out anymore"

Me: "You're right, I don't take you out enough, let's go to mcdonalds"

Basic stuff. Agree with her and throw some stupid shit in after. Say it with a shit eating grin on your face. She doesn't actually care about you taking her out, she just wants to test you. Read the sidebar on shittest everyday.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorCopperFox3c66 points67 points  (15 children) | Copy

Your willingness to walk away is key. But you have to pique their interest first. Show your own interest, but then independence. The goal is to get women to follow you.

Many men are either too aloof (i.e. cold) or too interested (i.e. desperate). There is a subtle art to walking the line between. Women are drawn to men who are unafraid of their testosterone ... that requires a mix of boldness and independence.

The difference between a vice and a virtue is often the restraint with which a thing is practiced.

[–]dispatcherselfish12 points13 points  (13 children) | Copy

how are we supposed to find the balance between aloof and desperate?

[–]trpftw7 points8 points  (4 children) | Copy

So ideally the "hot zone" is probably between 2-3 soft/excuse rejections. If you're getting soft no's then you try again.

[see my previous comment from my history about the donation-call]

If you're getting decent responses, then pull back a little to establish value.

If you're getting bored/uninterested responses, then push a little more to pique interest.

I do believe this is called "push-pull" method in a way. The balance is hard to find, but the goal should not be to just "persist" or "act indifferent", the goal should be to create emotional response.

The girl needs to feel a warm fuzzy feeling inside. How do you feel warm fuzzy feelings inside when talking to strangers? Practicing conversation skills in bars with men, might actually be a good way to prepare you and they are waaaaay easier to approach and less likely to reject.

I made that mistake my first time [this was before TRP], I approached a girl at a bar, the ugly one seemed real excited to observe the interaction, but the hot one was very nice and interested but had no emotional response. I picked a boring line of conversation [what do you do kinda thing] and said something boring about myself, and then asked for a number haha. It was so awful. But she was very nice about it but said she wasn't interested.

However, the only reason I think it failed after more experimentation, is that well I was just not prepared, I had no emotional connection, and I asked for a number way too early and then gave up after the initial no as well.

[–]dispatcherselfish1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

What would you recommend as interesting conversation?

[–]TomFoo5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Her. She is always her own most interesting topic of discussion. Ask a lot of questions about her.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Something that you find interesting.

[–]trpftw0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Typically as people learning social skills, we make friends we start by talking about the news or movies or even the weather. That's typical. But this might get predictable and boring with girls.

So instead you should dive into something that might pique interest and then start talking about it.

Preferably something about her. Preferably something she might be an expert in. Preferably something that might be what a young girl would be doing.

Starting out things like where you are from are very typical but still good.

Then you have to pivot to building emotions or excitement.

To do this, I have this feeling that talking about opinion scenarios seems to work best. "I get this vibe that you like animals, you're into them aren't you?" It's literally a shot in the dark, she might shoot you down and say "no i'm not", and then you ask them why. if they feel strongly about it one way or another, ask them why they feel strongly about it. Preferably steering it into topics of liking things. Then you can jump to more adult conversations. Sometimes they'll do the heavy lifting and get excited at the first mention of animals. If they're not into animals, then you say "Ah so you are into something nerdy then." And you probe them on it.

It's literally random, but it leads them into an alleyway where they can point you down the right path into likely something that interests them. In that alley, there's a chest with all her emotions. No not wooden, I mean the boobs.

[–]1ToSeeAndToHear11 points12 points  (1 child) | Copy

I have found that the best way is to always be thinking about how you're going to meet and approach the next girl, not how you're going to get back the one who just soft-rejected you. Every time I get some ambiguous rejection from a girl ("I'm busy" being the most common; hard to tell if they're blowing smoke given I run in legal circles and people are working 80 hour weeks), it's easier to get my mind off it and my head back in the game instead of feels land if I find some other chick I'm also interested in.

[–]2kez884 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Its about finding the difference between WANT and NEED. We all WANT women, but when you actively show that you NEED her is when you become too desperate. Showing her that you want her, but also that you can walk away is generally the place to try to come from

[–]1Entropy-72 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

If you are with a quality girl then you can relax and enjoy the experience regardless of whether or not you get in her pants. And the weird thing is that if you do not think about it too much, you will end up in their pants.

This is why I am not a PUA and don't spend my time or energy trying to fuck sluts.

[–]1Entropy-79 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

I generally run my own version of The Tao of Steve: 1) Eliminate desire 2) Be awesome in her presence 3) Withdraw

[–][deleted] 22 points23 points  (2 children) | Copy

Fuck, strong FR.

Ok. That's fine. I don't actually want to swing kettlebells with you, I just want your number

Good work. Next time, don't say "that's fine" -- makes you sound like you are accepting rejection.

Overall, I liked the directness, reminds me of some of the ways I've asked women out.

For anyone else reading this -- part of what makes this line so strong, and what OP can't convey here properly b/c we're not there, is the delivery.

Roissy has some discussion of the "apocalypse opener," where you go "hi --> what are you plans --> come home with me." In practice, it's so direct that it's too much most of the time, but Roissy talks about the delivery -- you are describing the fucking weather. No laughing, no embarrassment, you are matter of fact. That's the way deliveries like OP's need to be.

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (0 children) | Copy

I disagree, stating "that's fine" at first makes her feel like her bitch shield has won and successfully outed another beta, but then she immediately finds out she wasn't even playing the right game.

[–]Casual_Tits2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

IMO, the specific wording is not as important as what OP says in the first paragraph of this post: persistence

[–]IWISHIWASASECRET21 points22 points  (3 children) | Copy

One of the main things to take away from this is Eye Contact. The minute you look away - you lose. The minute she looks away - rejected. Having strong eye contact is extremely important.

[–]Warrior_For_Hire1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I always thought that if you maintain eye contact and she looks down then she submittes to you but if she looks up or to the side then she is rejecting you.

[–]Morpheus-Man0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If she looks away it doesn't mean rejected. It means she's shy. If you take her looking away briefly as rejected then you already lost the battle.

[–]alvlear31 points32 points  (11 children) | Copy

Turns out, she's actually pretty smart and seems low partner count relative to North American standards for her age, at least from my reading of her.

I don't think so. This bitch gave it up on the first day. Just how low are those North American standards? She gave you basic shit tests ("microrejections", lol), and the most basic of LMR in the book.

I think you have been lifting for a while, and your SMV has risen enough that IOIs come easy now. Don't lose perspective on what basic chick resistance looks like.

Look out for oneitis, OP. AWALT.

[–]2awalt_cupcake23 points24 points  (4 children) | Copy

He just made this woman a bonafied slut and he's trying to justify her. That's some male hamstering.

[–]LukesLikeIt8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yea. A hot girl who wears make up to the gym and fucked him on the first date. But she's different right?

[–]trpftw9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

Hey it's hard to show resistance when there's a reward of orgasm at the end.

Men don't show any resistance at all... at all...

Being a slut requires a pattern where she does this every night or weekly to random guys. We'll never really know for sure if OP's story is one of a real slut or not.

I had one girl show me resistance for 4 different dates. She had sex on the 5th date with me. Is she a non-slut? Well how do we know she wouldn't give it up on the first date if I looked like Brad Pitt?

The trouble is that we can never truly determine sluttiness to any accuracy.

P.S. the girl who had sex on the 5th date, turned out to be a disloyal slut and got dumped for it. [she didn't cheat, but she showed signs that only sluts would do]

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

Meh I still give her more credit than most of my tinder dates.

[–]ManOfGrapes7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

I agree. A gym for a woman is significantly different than a regular guy going to the gym. Girls know exactly what they're doing when they wear tight clothing and do half-assed good morning exercises. Like you said, the fact that she gave it up the first day after a few drinks is more telling.

Golden rule of watch what women do, not what they say.

[–]Il1284 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Well he's got some low self esteem. He's talking up what would be a plate at best as ltr material.

Sadly he'll be back with an AWALT story.

He actually believes a girl who fucked on the first date has a low n count. I pity the fool.

[–]hectortamerofwhores2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

North American standards are pretty low; it's actually pretty hard to imagine a girl from around here who wouldn't be willing to put out on a first night under the right circumstances. That makes the ones who put up a little defense (even if the guy is high SMV) a rare find; though not rare enough to warrant a ring.

[–]TomFoo1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

True, but OP is Captain Swole Alpha ThunderChad. Thot is actually Klingon for pussy, so he is literally the Pussywrecker. He's probably not used to actually putting in effort to shut down LMR, much like Superman's WTF-face getting his right hook blocked by Mech Suit Batman.

[–]Morpheus-Man1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Upvote for the BvS reference

[–]prodigy2throw32 points33 points  (2 children) | Copy

This can be a major sticking point especially for beginners. A lot of guys (myself included) assume if the woman isn't fondling your balls or playing with her hair, laughing, touching within the first 30 seconds she's not interested and never will be. You can't give up at the first point of resistance. That being said, you should be just as aware of indicators of total disinterest to make sure you don't cross the line of creepy.

Solid FR. I'd suggest going back and checking for spelling though.

[–]Endorsed ContributorThotwrecker[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah. Lotta people overvalue IOIs. They are looking for some indicator that she wants them to escalate. They want a guarantee that she's actually into them before they put themselves "out there". Often you have to just act when there is zero assurance that it will work. If you wait for the IOI, then you're a permission-boy, you're only acting when she's given you permission to do so. A subtle difference like this can determine whether she slots you into the AF role or the BB role.

[–]PunkOverLord7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

You have opened my eyes. Holy shit. I knew something was off in my game as of late and you just proved to me what it was. I appreciate you.

Mini Fr: Girl messaged me outta the blue and we exchanged some messages here and there. Seemed into me, so I asked for her number and then... boom! cold shoulder. I know the bitch read it (thank you fb) so wtf right? Luckily I knew I had to soft next at the very least right? I didn't supplicate or any of that bullshit. After reading your FR I realised her non response was basically a shit test of persistence. I messaged her telling her I'm not a little bitch and she could tell me no. Guess what? She was horribly sorry (yea right) about not responding and straight away threw her number at me.

It works. I got instant proof minutes from reading this. I even exclaimed to myself "Fuck you TRP you did it again" Cheers.

[–]F_Dingo6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you for this post.

Funny enough, I do have a slight amount of aspergers (overcome almost all of it, but the hit to social skills still stands). This post will help me out when I'm at university this fall.

[–]RedsideoftheMoon26 points27 points  (7 children) | Copy

This is Sidebar material. This is a sub devoted to providing tools to better yourself as a man. Every guy needs to learn to not reject himself, e.g. at a business, with women, with friends, when asking for something you want in general

Want the restaurant staff to prepare a special table? Want to ask the bartender for a little extra in your drink? Girl is putting up barriers? These are all scenarios where you might get a no, but oftentimes you get a no accompanied by some excuses vs. a straight no. If you don't get a very clear "no," don't shoot yourself in the foot by rejecting yourself. Everything is negotiable.

[–]stawek12 points13 points  (4 children) | Copy

Don't forget when you're trying to sell something.

I just realized while reading that I've been losing business to this behavior.

[–]trpftw7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy

I just had a call from a fire department, they wanted me to donate money. The caller/salesman was phenomenal.

  • [resistance 1] I said at first "no thanks, I don't have the time right now to deal with that." Then he explained that it's a time-unlimited letter with a return envelope that you can return at any time with a donation.

  • [resistance 2] I said "I understand, but no thanks, I don't have the budget right now..." Then he said "oh that's ok, we have a special program and it would only cost $15. Would you donate $15 ?" Damn, I had this sudden urge to just donate $15 because now I felt poor.

  • [resistance 3] Now I was genuinely curious I wanted to hear how he would put up with more resistance. I said "well I'd have to find out more information and do some research about it." [before I realized how dumb it is to research fire departments], and he was like "we have an information packet too!"

  • Finally I said "Well no thanks, thanks anyway." But I will still donate to them anyway. That was quite an excellent conversation and sales pitch I've ever heard. Never felt more of an urge to donate. I didn't donate at that moment because I was at work. I bet that guy brings in motherloads of money. I wouldn't have the willpower to ask 3-4 times from someone who sounds disinterested.

But of course this is a bit easier to do with sales where your job depends on it. A lot harder to do with girls where they can really embarrass you in public.

[–]clonegreen7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

In the "Power of Influence" it's mentioned that having to constantly reject someone breaks a persons will power, especially when it goes from a larger request to a smaller one.

So him making $15 bucks seems like nothing reframed things to make it appear like it's no big deal.

[–]retired_destro1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Read "when I say no I feel guilty". I bet he did.

[–]Endorsed ContributorThotwrecker[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, great point. Everything is negotiable. Guys learn a logical framework where A means A, and B means B. But in reality, nothing is cemented and nothing cannot be arranged for a man with enough pull. You won't always have a way, you won't always think of it in time. But by just keeping the negotiation open for a longer period of time, you increase the likelihood you'll find the leverage you need to get what you want.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Really it's already there under KISS as part of learning game in the 101. Regardless it's still a solid post by OP.

[–]Fartfacethrowaway4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is true, i would say a good third or more of the women I've had sex really hated/rejected me at first, then admired my strength in persistence.

Persistence is a quality just like any other.

[–]RedDeadlift4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is a fantastic, thorough FR. Persistence is something I am severely lacking right now. Your story with the HB8 from the gym is an excellent example where 99% of guys would have most certainly failed. Thanks for the inspiration.

[–]rphunter7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is why I read trp, thanks for the post. Looking back now, there are definitely situations in which I blew myself out and failed to realize it. Now I know.

[–]CornyHoosier3 points4 points  (10 children) | Copy

Quick related-situation:

Met a girl out and about the other night and we hit it off. She gave me her number when we parted and I told her I'd get back to her. The next day I text her this: "I'm headed out Wednesday night and Friday, you should come get rowdy with me in the city."

She replied, "It was great meeting you! I gotta work tonight and I have a date Friday but I'd love to chill soon."

I haven't responded. Thoughts? Leave it be and on to the next one? I don't want to "be friends" with this girl.

[–]verify_account4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Try again next week. If she doesn't provide an alternative date on the second chance then forget about her.

[–]throwaway-aa2[🍰] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm going to give you different advice from the other people who have responded to you. The short answer to your specific problem has been answered by other people, but we need to take a step back and figure this out for your future interactions.

Generally it's very hard to schedule plans with a girl over text. The reasons for that are numerous but basically just saying "what cha doin tonight" and tag along with her doesn't ever work. You have to suggest coming to somewhere you'll be. The problem with this, is girls are busy shopping, meeting friends, etc (social creatures). So 85% of the time if you get her phone number and try to set something up (again you have to be specific)... but she'll be busy.

This starts getting bad because it's obviously unattractive to keep sweating a girl, even if you both like each other... she'll be turned off by it as it comes across as you bugging her (which is her fault but again the guy is responsible for everything).

You MUST set logistics before / right after you get a phone number. Do NOT get a phone number, and try to setup logistics over text. When you get her number, you should be making conversation, segue into a topic that let's you talk about an activity you 2 could do...mostly drinks (alcohol / coffee / smoothie) but you can be imaginative. You tie that in with you both going out, and you start making logistics then and there. Either way find out a day she is free during the week, or if you must, what day's she's generally free.

Basically set it up so that there is no need for this back and forth ambiguous bullshit. ALWAYS do this, as even just getting a girls phone number just to chat her up later is more weird than actually talking with her, making a connection, agreeing to meet later on, and then the phone number is just a byproduct of that process... she's less likely to flake on you, and because you don't have to prod her over text you come out looking more attractive and put together.

[–]VancouverSucks1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Text her again in a week. Who really gives a shit though. Work on yourself, not on her.

[–]PunkOverLord1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Accept it like she's no big deal in your life. I'd just tell her something in the lines of "I'm a busy man. Ditch your date on Friday. Otherwise it was nice meeting you too."

[–]ryno550 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

Nobodys gonna tell your ass exactly what to say, figure it out brodie, don't sweat it.

[–]CornyHoosier2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

Alrighty, I'll next her. There are enough women down here.

[–]shiggityshoo 2 points2 points [recovered] | Copy

Honestly, depending on how attracted you are to her, it might be worth another shot. While she didn't leave it open with a proposed date in the future, hit her up sometime next week and see if she'll join you doing something. You already know what to do if that doesn't pan out.

[–]CanisInvictus2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

In a thread about not rejecting yourself, I'd dare say one more shot is acceptable.

[–]yaysmr4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy

Persistence is really important, but be careful about putting your target on a pedestal/getting mild oneitis. Balance it with patience and abundance mentality.

And don't ever take a 'no' for an answer unless it is, as mentioned above, backed by actions. If she rejects your approach but continues giving attention, then understand that she IS interested, but needs you to either rehabilitate yourself or try again under better circumstances.

This ALSO applies to the dreaded 'can we be friends' line. If she uses it on you and yet still talks with you, you DO have a shot, if you can avoid becoming an orbiter. The general tactics that have worked for me:

A) Don't acknowledge the 'offer' of friendship, and continue talking and engaging as if it was never said. She uses it to shut you down, and if you don't then it loses power. Of course if she keeps loudly and repeatedly saying it then you'll look stupid blabbing over her. That's one to let go.

B) Acknowledge it but, as in OP, make a snarky remark about how she'll change her mind or how she's making a mistake or otherwise completely discredit the line directly. This makes your intentions more clear so there will be no ambiguity down the line.

What you do NOT want to do is acknowledge and affirm it. Because then you're locked into 'friend mode' where anytime you do anything she wants to shut down, she'll remind you that "you're just a friend," and you can't very well protest because you've already agreed with that. Still possible to come back from, but you've given her more to defend with.

Whereas if you never actually acknowledge or agree to it, a simple comeback is "I don't remember accepting that at all" and now she can either reiterate her offer of friendship (which you will roundly reject) or her hamster will justify the action now because hey, she meant to be friends then but not now and there was never any agreement...

I used the above on a girl who tried it on me and the next night after the 'friend' talk she was making out with me at a bar. I don't recall our exchange exactly but I do remember the statement "I only asked you that to see if you'd agree." If I had agreed, then she would have a readily available excuse for herself. DON'T let her have one.

Remember she may completely mean it when she says she just wants to be friends, but only because that is how she feels at that instant. As long as those feelings change in the future then whatever she said before literally does not matter.

Persist and be smart about it, and you'll find yourself winning battles you previously would have given up without a fight.

[–]aherne18[🍰] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

The "dreaded" LJBF or IHAB (I have a boyfriend) are stuff to be ignored and played along. You can even agree on that to defuse tension (actually they DO have boyfriends) WHILE your hands are playing on her body. Always calibrate your behaviour on her body language, but reserve this only for women you have tingles of (so that it doesn't become a routine).

Watch out for composure and indifference, though. Whenever you see that, LEAVE! There is an unholy tendency in all of us to fall in love of people "outside our reach" (it applies to men and women as well). We see power in the one who belittles us (via "too great to be mine" mentality)...

[–]yaysmr-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy

There is an unholy tendency in all of us to fall in love of people "outside our reach" (it applies to men and women as well). We see power in the one who belittles us (via "too great to be mine" mentality)...

That I have to agree with.

I always have the urge when the "Lets be friends" talk hits to think "well this is just an even better challenge to overcome. Sounds fun!" And fool myself into devoting extra energy just to see if I can win.

And there is the reward of reversing the power dynamic. She rejected you, you worked back into the upper hand, and now you have your prize. Go you! But the prize isn't worth anything more than any other prize out there, you just threw more effort at a lower chance of success.

[–]aherne18[🍰] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I always have the urge when the "Lets be friends" talk hits to think "well this is just an even better challenge to overcome. Sounds fun!"

Very very few people do that. This is not a power game: remember we are talking of someone who just wants you to get lost. You basically have three options: get lost, rape her or wear her repulsion down until her energy to reject you is spent (as OP suggests).

But latter is something VERY risky to do, considering the high investment into something that, if ever won, should just be a ONS (since she will ABSOLUTELY reset the moment you are no longer there, unless she gave up her pussy after you spent enough $$$ to prove you are a BB prospect). Not to mention, given our generic tendency I've spoken about, you are almost guaranteed to fall in love of your own powerlessness to extract any (positive) emotion in her...

For all of these reasons, if your pride wouldn't be enough, women who are repulsed / unmoved / indifferent to you should just be left alone...

[–]yaysmr0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

For all of these reasons, if your pride wouldn't be enough, women who are repulsed / unmoved / indifferent to you should just be left alone...

Yes, however if you are truly improving yourself and working on your game and SMV, then it should be completely possible to overcome the repulsion and make her feel something... assuming you did not severely screw up the first time such that your very name is tainted in her memory.

The goal isn't so much about wearing down the repulsion as it is displacing it. Which can be difficult if you haven't quite figured out what it is that repulses her. Even if you were a huge black memory for her it's not necessarily over, since at least she remembers feeling something and as has been established, women tend to care more about intensity of emotion than whether it's positive or negative.

I completely agree that the effort won't really be worth the prize because, as stated above, the prize isn't any more special than any other.

But in a post about persistence, I felt it was necessary to underline how persistence can help you defeat even more 'terminal' rejections.

[–]aherne18[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

if you are truly improving yourself and working on your game and SMV, then it should be completely possible to overcome the repulsion and make her feel something...

Since it's generally your looks that make her repulsed by, your options are limited to one sole strategy: select the most defenceless one and corner her into submission. This WORKS, but effects will wear down the moment you are no longer together. Better fuck the fortress you have just conquered!

Maybe there are better methods, but in my case that was the only one that worked (maybe because I'm very anti-social?).

[–]Polaris3822 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, it can be difficult to balance it. Some of us can too easily get caught up in that whole "Brad Pitt rule" philosophy, and it can be a hard one to shake...and then your pride can so quickly get in the way that you are quick to write off/"next" ones that arent showing you some strong interest immediately because you feel you have too much dignity too keep pursuing further, and you dont want to potentially be "that guy" (the creepy dude who cant take a hint).

[–]through_a_ways2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Good post, and 90% of TRP is biological, not intellectual.

If you don't have that 90% down, this sub won't really help you much. The internet can't teach you to be a beast.

[–]Luis_McLovin0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Definitely. Biological in the sense of understanding womens and mens natures, then after that understanding how to read body language, and understanding what game is.

That's 20% effort

the other 80% is having strong game.

Pareto's Law baby! 20% of the effort gets you 80% of the way there!

The intellectual bit is taking apart game into tactics and strategy. What most PUA men in places like seddit forget is to cover the fundamentals offered here in TRP, unless the fundamentals are understood a man is doomed to always be stabbing in the dark and not understanding why PUA "tricks" work, they simple do them because that's what they've been told to do.

[–]TomFoo2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Thank you posting this. There were a handful of FRs not long ago that went like:

  • Met a HB
  • Approached
  • Noticed signs of hypergamy / shit test / cc / branchswinging / feminazi / talking / breathing oxygen / a small pimple on her left butt cheek
  • Nexted that bitch within 30 seconds of approach because AWALT! ABUNDANCE MENTALITY! I'm not BETA!

In sales, almost half (44%) of the sales reps give up after one follow-up. 80% of sales happens after the fifth follow-up. That's asking six times.

The strategic objective of war is not to destroy your enemy but to break down their will to fight. Fight so that she loses her will, along with her panties.

Persist, but also hold frame. Bust shit tests with amused mastery. Temp next her, then circle back to her. Always escalate, always be ready willing and able to conduct the outrageous, if she is giving you audience.

[–]TWYW1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Many here behave as if they're Brad Pitt, when they aren't. While the Brad Pitt rule has great principles, many take it too literally (and fail). That's where game comes into play.

[–]throwaway-aa2[🍰] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I seriously needed to hear this man. I would hang it up somewhere.... were it practical to do so....

[–]disposable_pants2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Three times rule. Give yourself three strikes - only blow yourself out after you hear three rejections.

As others have pointed out, this is (excellent) advice that is applicable in pretty much any situation where you're asking for something. 99% of salespeople will tell you that quitting at the first "no" is a losing strategy.

[–]recursoinominado1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Loved, this sub needs more posts like this. I give up too soon to protect my fucking ego. Pathetic.

[–]1Jax777891 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think it all depends on how she rejects you. As you say sometimes you feel the girl is absolutely not into you, sometimes you know the rejection is contextual and not personal, because maybe you screwed up and you objectively deserve to be turned down and you still have some bullets in your clip. Listening to your guts is key.

I think that once you have initial attraction it is always possible to get the chick, first impressions seem to reign supreme.

[–][deleted] 2 points2 points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–]Endorsed ContributorThotwrecker[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

OK. #1 rule. If you both make that "Yeah I caught you checking me out while I was checking you out" eye contact, then that is THE window. You know that moment where you realize she eyed you up, but you only realized that because you were eyeing her up? That's the perfect moment, do not wait next time.

Once you get caught staring a few times but not approaching, you're just like every guy. You want to ogle her but you're not actually a serious sexual candidate.

I would just walk over during a rest and say "Hi, I'm Tim. I wanted to meet you. That guy over there is eyeing my spot, so I don't have much time." Say something based on what she's doing. Sometimes I'll make fun of someone doing something ridiculous in the gym - there's always someone - and if she's laughing, I'll make fun of her or myself a little to keep it light and fun.

Then as soon as we're at a high point, I'm looking to end the conversation and get the number. You will overstay your welcome quickly in the gym, you have limited time. Maybe 1-2 minutes max.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

In the gym, and in most situations, the earlier you approach, the better. Next time, just walk up and say something dumb like "Hey I don't recognize you, are you new to the gym?" and then chat her up about random shiz for a couple minutes and then ask for a number.

[–]Luis_McLovin-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

Exactly what askepios said. Just DO IT. Talk to her. Pass her shit tests. If she throws them up thats good, it means shes interested, shes merely playing hard to get. Listen to body language.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is a perfect example of what most men need to understand & if they don't want it you just gotta next them.

My art class went on a trip to the MoMA the other day & I had tried to establish contact with one of the girls that was in my group earlier in the day.

Eventually I ended up introducing myself to her and kicked some light kino in her direction and she responded well to it.

Soon I would wander away from her and she'd follow me to each exhibit & we'd talk about shit (personal lives and other bullshit I wasn't trying to be too aggressive since it's the second day of class) for almost three hours.

She brought up the fact that she really had no friends or a social life and repeated this three times throughout the exhibit.

The first time I completely ignored it.

The second time I offered for her to come out with me & my friends to shoot billiards (I gave off zero sexual interest asking this considering one of my plates goes to school with me & is extremely jealous even though I've established our boundaries to be strictly sexual) and she ignored the offer.

The third time she repeated herself I nonchalantly offered again much louder to ensure she heard it & she looked like she wanted to take the offer but because of other reasons (my assumption was it was still too soon considering we just met today & her family must keep her home like a recluse) she turned it down.

I'm probably going to ask her again once we begin to familiarize ourselves with each other a little more and she brings up the topic about having no social life again.

If not I'll just end up nexting because there's no reason to stick around someone who does not seem to want to be around you.

[–]DarkisKnight1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Nice FR. It's true a lot of guys give up too soon. Even if you don't close the chances of you learning a lot more are great if you persist until an obvious rejection. Also, if you're still on the path to Alpha it's going to be a bit more work to lay. Not everyone can be Brad Pitt right away.

[–]pcadrian 2 points2 points [recovered] | Copy

I too have broken many TRP "rules" and sprinkled some beta crumbs only to have excellent results. My game can be described in two words: comfort and persistence. It often goes against everything taught here, but it works very well. If I meet a slut on Tinder, I can get her in bed on the first or second date without having to "act cool" and all that. They find it so refreshing when a guy is authentic and doesn't try to act cool, the panties just come off.

[–]Luis_McLovin1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Thats called having good game.

Sprinkling beta crumbs however is the "easy" strategy compared to pushing harder and being even more red.

As long as you get results you're winning.

Don't fool yourself into thinking though that because you allow yourself to be blue a little it means that you're better than those who are 0% blue, it just means you haven't had success with being more red yet, and the more red you are the sweeter the success at the end. Maybe due to not high enough SMV or not strong enough game to use more red strategy.

Don't fool yourself kiddo.

[–]TomFoo0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That reminds me. I gotta bring back my Harmless Dork game.

[–]kellykebab0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

How do you act, then? What seems to work best that isn't Red Pill?

[–]redarkane2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

So much work just to get some tail.

There's only one real tip to all of this. Be attractive.

[–]1Entropy-70 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I have to get back out there again and find a new girl because the ones I have are not working for me. The whole thing about "just being yourself" has to be taken with a grain of salt. You have to be comfortable in your own skin and chat up women like they are nothing. Learn to enjoy your own life and women will naturally be drawn to be a part of it.

[–]RPsage0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I completely agree. Showing tenacity towards the woman's shield has gotten me plenty of ass.

[–]whodidyawhat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Because men are generally weak physically and emotionally when it come to mental pain . They lack empathy and struggle to compromise... Wow generalise much. Lol...

[–]harsha_hs0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is a great post. But it's difficult to deal with micro rejections for many early swallowers of redpill who havn't experienced a big blowout yet. There is no substitute to experience for in-depth learning. Even for swallowing redpill, for that matter.

When you've experienced how shitty your life can be, you can deal with tiny little garbage like this. That's why, it's important to be in war once to realize what's what.

For guys who think they've comfortable life(read bluepill), we're in war and it's real. nothing really matters to get that 9/10 pussy you always wanted.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Thank you for a fantastic post. Just thinking back now makes me realise how many times I have disqualified myself. No more. What are your thoughts on follow up texts/ messages in online dating. If she does not respond are you similarly persistent?

[–]Endorsed ContributorThotwrecker[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

It's much better to run volume game online because generally if she's not going to swap #s (aka get off tinder or OKC) after a few back and forth messages, she is looking for validation and a texting buddy. If after giving the # she's not willing to meetup (and if she's busy the times you go for, if she does not propose times of her own) she's not serious about it.

So this may seem to contradict what I'm saying in my post, but with tinder especially, it really pays to have a fuck or walk attitude.

My strategy is basically on Weds or Thurs to spend 5 minutes liking every ho in SF. (Use an auto-liker program). Thursday you do a little back and forth, see who's giving up #s. Because I'm Indian, my tinder game is nerfed, but I can still work it. Let's say 5000 swipes, 50-100 matches, work that down to about 10-15 chicks who are giving up the #. Start with the hottest one and try to set up a drinks date on Friday, and repeat.

So let's say one is being flaky or non-responsive... if I literally have another lead right there, there's no point sinking more time into the non-responsive lead.

I definitely have spend a lot of persistance on individual girls I met online, but 9 times out of 10 it's a complete waste and moving on to the next prospect would be better.

Online is high-volume sales. You will gain less lays than you will miss by clinging on to individual leads.

In-person is different. You will gain a lot of lays by being persistent, and you won't miss much by spending an extra 5 minutes on 1 qualified chick. The exception is if you're in a huge megaclub with 100s of turbo thots. In that case, yeah, being persistent can create more missed opportunities with other girls than lays.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yes moving on with online dates is generally the best strategy. Persistence does not usually pay off. It does sometimes though. This morning I decided to send a final text to a girl who had not responded twice. She was free tonight, we met and made out. She has agreed to spend next Friday in a hotel room with me. She is an easy HB8. Maybe I should be more persistent online after all. It makes me wonder how many lays I have missed with my usual attitude of instant next. Food for thought

[–]Phiend4Phoes0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

This was a great read, Thotwrecker, thank you.

I do have a need for advice in regard to this. 9 months ago (before I ever heard of RP) I met a great girl at a party I was hosting. I was actually trying to throw some dread (didn't know it was called that then though) at another girl, so I invited almost only girls (15 girls, 3 of my bros). We hit it off good and I invited her out, she agreed and was enthusiastic. We went out, made out at my place and I encountered LMR. She pulled away a couple of times and I blurted out "that's fine, I'm not gonna pressure you into sex", and stopped trying to escalate. She stayed at my place that night (in my bed), and of course we didn't do the deed. This lead me into monk mode and lifting. 3 months later I found you, you magnificent bastards.

After she went home that morning, I never contacted her again. Monk mode has been very good for me, but I'm soon ready to go on the hunt again with my shiny new exterior and regained frame (I used to be very alpha, lots of sports, military service etc., but I got brainwashed somewhere along the road (oneitis)).

This girl, however, keeps popping up in my head, and I believe I should give it another shot to get her into bed. I met her at another party over a month ago, she was surprised to see me. "Wow, where have you been??" I didn't answer her question, just told her some things, and was generally ignoring her. I then evacuated the scene, telling them I had important shit to do. Still haven't contacted her, but I know she's out of the country now, and will be for some time (social media is only good for information IMO).

Now to my question/request for advice. How should I go about re-initiating stuff with this girl? She obviously knows I had beta qualities from previous encounter (annihilating myself when faced with LMR), but seeing as I put her on the backburner after that night, and have avoided all contact with her since, I believe I have a much better shot in my next attempt. Especially with all the knowledge I've found here. The options I believe I have here are 1. Asking her out 2. Hosting a new party and invite all her friends (she'll most definitely come as well) 3. Wait for the next party hosted by others she'll be at 4. "Coincidentally" run into her in a bar

What do you guys think would be the best course of action here? Many thanks in advance, any advice is appreciated.

Sorry for any language errors, english is not my native tongue.

[–]Endorsed ContributorThotwrecker[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy


Fuck her friends. She comes back from abroad and realizes most of her friends have gotten dicked down by you, and as a bonus, you will get over your one-itis by doing this. Get off her social media and get into her friends, shit is simple.

Don't overanalyze shit with her. She is likely confused about you because she sees beta and alpha qualities, which means she is going to be shit testing and LMRing hard to see what you are actually made of.

She comes back, you're in superior physical and social shape. Social proof is on high, and she sees that other girls are giving it up to you.

I would then invite her to get drinks with you (not dinner, fuck dinner) to catch up. Drinks at 9 or 10 on a Fri / Sat is the slightly more subtle version of netflix and chill.

If you do get LMR, try the 3x rule. First time, you say "Ok yeah we're definitely not having sex. I'm not that type of guy" and you keep going. Second time "Yeah you're right, we should cool down. Lemme get you out of that sweater."

Never take it seriously. Don't get in your head like "oh she's giving me LMR, that means I must be beta in her eyes."

Third time, take a break, smoke or drink or watch TV, have her make you a snack, something that takes like 10-15 minutes, not longer. Then start it up again.

[–]Phiend4Phoes1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for reading my reply mate. The oneitis was put down a long time ago, this isn't about the same girl. Oneitis was my gf for an extent period of time, but we all know what happens with that shit.

The only problem with your advice regarding FHF is that I'm not attracted to almost any of her friends. Even though they clearly want to fuck, I've abstained for a long period of time now. But seeing it as a tactical move, it would be a more valid thing to do. Also enhance the abundance mentality I have going for me.

Thanks again.

[–]WhyNotJustEnjoyLife0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Good post just one thing though.

Turns out, she's actually pretty smart and seems low partner count relative to North American standards for her age, at least from my reading of her.

Spin plates, don't be a fool.

[–]user66880 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Good lesson. These soft rejections are essentially shit-tests at their core.

Although if a girl sleeps with you on the first date she's probably not LTR material.

[–]j4c0p0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The good old debate : "Should I keep pushing?" vs "Its over, NEXT and save time"

There have been posts about one or another. This one is from prior Category. There was second one from latter - > IIRC "The beta way when failing is to double down and play harder" (Have to find the post)

From the perspective of beginner , I would say it is better to NEXT. You need to gain experience with women overall. From the start playing the numbers game and focusing on getting used to interacting with multitudes of them. After you got quantity , you can start focus on quality.

[–]Hippo_Kankles0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

"Aka full retard" bruh... Laugh my fucking ass offfff 😂😂

[–]Masonjarteadrinker20 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks a ton for this post, I've been on TRP for a pretty long time now so useful posts come once a long in a blue moon. This one really hit home though cause I've noticed that I've given up prematurely at times.

Thanks again though, really appreciate you taking the time.

[–]Stythe0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

My sales boss used to say "you know how to tell if they're still interested? They're still standing there." If people are really fed up or not having it, they leave. There are exceptions for people with very low boundaries but generally they're the exception.

Moreover, I remember one girl I was signing up for the product. The entire time she said "no, no, I don't see any reason why not, but I can't, no" until fo ally I said "Listen, we've been doing this for 20 minutes. You don't have any reason not to, and you're still here. I'm signing you up because I have to pee really badly and I think you're just afraid to say yes." When she was signed up, she literally said she felt good she did it.

This is the mentality you're dealing with much of the time. Sadly it can be hard to realize it sometimes, but most people like being sold too. It's fun. You sell yourself in social dynamics. The question is how hard are you willing to push for the sale? Many people would be shocked at what persistence alone gets you. The more you persist, the more you learn and the more confident you become.

[–]darkmoon090 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is an excellent post. Thank you OP.

[–]INTJokes0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is very true, not just when on dates. I'm reading The Art of the Deal and Trump says he had to fight tooth and nail to get his first Manhattan property. He said if he gave up he'd still be collecting cheap rents in Brooklyn.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

By using the word "allow", I trigger her inner feminist to rear its head and say "no one tells me what I can't do."

These types of mind games sound quite PUA-ish and we all know, or at least should know, that PUA is BS. It's all about looks or money and always will be about those things.

If you don't have Looks, Money or Status, you can play your mind games as much as you want, you won't have success.

If you're handsome/rich/high status, she will snatch at the most far-fetched reason for giving you a chance. If you have low SMV, she won't even pay attention to your mind games.

I'm deeply convinced that most guys who think that they "master the art of conversation" are Chads that won the genetic lottery and benefit from the Halo Effect.

[–]Luis_McLovin2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Definitely the Halo effect. Once your SMV is high enough you can afford to have weak game as the target essentially picks up the slack for you subconsciously, they will abscond to your requests to go out for drinks when you say as friends because they believe you instead of shit testing, then only later to be turned on when you ramp it up a bit.

Never stop investing in your SMV. Always practice game.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

There it is. Close the sub.

[–]1InscrutablePUA0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Because there's a strain of "persistence = chasing women = beta as fuck" thinking

People have this image of being Super Alpha ManTM walking into the club and being flooded by pussy

Game is a skill in itself, a component of social acumen.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

She was bored and lied about her partner count. You offered her something besides the normal routine. If you think a girl who fucks the guy who offered to swing balls with her at the gym isn't riding the carousel, you need a little more experience.

Most guys who are totally inexperienced give up too easily. More experienced guys learn that getting the fuck isn't that hard. And the most experienced guys will tell you that girl isn't nearly worth the pedestal you put her on.

[–]aherne18[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I don't like this at all. It's begging for pussy 101

First of all, you base your assumptions on the VERY wrong idea if she puts great resistance, then she does the same to other men (so she's "valuable"). In reality in just means she's not attracted to you, but after you being so persistent she decided to give the beggar his due: "what the hell... an extra cock won't make any difference" (actual quote from someone I know).

You can get pussy while being aggressive and preserving your pride intact. It builds shock-waves of attraction around your persona, makes you feel like a king, makes her feel valuable for being with a king.

Persistence is good ONLY when her body language is positive to begin with. She's your game: if you are concentrating too much on a hard-to-get prey you will starve to death and get the dreaded oneitis, the greatest disease of sexually starved modern man (that goes hand in hand with addition to porn).

Lessons learnt (classic abundance mentality): Allow her to leave, allow you to move on!

[–][deleted] 0 points0 points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–]bobbyfitness22-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Suit yourself OP. The last woman to pull that shit I said, "Date over." and kicked her out.

My bed my rules.

Honestly most women aren't worth the effort.

[–]An_All-Beef_Engineer-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

> She's higher RMV, but a BYPRODUCT of higher RMV is often - not always, but often - increased difficulty.

This is why women who are kicked off the carousel pretend to be hard to get. False positives for higher value.

[–]GrandmasterHurricane-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

She meets you the next day and fucks after such a garbage introduction to your world, and you're saying she's not easy? Lol boy you need to sit your ass down over there.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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