Summary: Flirting with women is a concept that is lost on most guys. Let's face it - most men are clueless when it comes to HOW to flirt with women effectively.
So what we're going to discuss today are my three hottest bits of dating advice for men that will expose the mistakes men make when trying to flirt with women.
Flirt mistake 1: Waiting too long to approach or start the conversation.
If there's any dating advice for men that stands the test of time, it's this one. Women are estimating your confidence level based on how long you wait until you approach. The longer it takes, the more interest and attraction she loses for you.
The second she notices you, and knows that you have noticed her, a timer starts in her head. And if you hesitate, that tells her you're not as confident as she wants you to be. And if it takes TOO LONG, she's going to find it creepy that you're looking and not doing something.
So here's my advice for men who want to avoid this mistake:
The second you see an attractive woman, your mind is going to try to stop you from going over to meet her. And there is no logical reason why for this, other than you feel a natural hesitation.
Just get into the habit of walking over within 3 seconds of seeing a woman you want to meet. 1-2-3. Showtime.
You don't need a clever line to get her to talk to you. (In fact, using 'lines' on women often makes them more reluctant to talk.) Say hello and get right to it. Don't try to be smooth.
Flirt mistake 2: Flirting with your mouth instead of your whole body.
Guys often make the mistake of being a bit too direct when they talk with women. The most important thing to recognize about women is that they like "indirectly direct" communication. Meaning that you can flirt-talk with her, but you have to give her "plausible deniability" the whole time you're talking with her.
What is "Plausible deniability"? It's the ability for a woman to deny that she had taken the lead or initiative in flirting or leading you on. She wants to hint to you that she's interested, but she often can't because of the amount of social pressure put on women to not be the pursuer. She also wants to be chased herself, so you want to give her the ability to write her own story about how it all happened.
So here's my dating advice for men who want to avoid this mistake:
Instead of saying things like: "Wow, you sure are beautiful..." or "God must be missing an angel up in heaven...", find ways of communicating your appreciation with your body language.
One of the best ways you can make a woman feel cherished and appreciated is simply to use more eye contact. Just look from eye to eye, and occasionally let your eyes stray down to her lips - or to her hair. This shows that you're taking her in and find her attractive without sounding like a dork.
Just remember that appreciating does not mean "ogling." You can visually appreciate a woman without looking like you're imagining her naked. (Save that for later...)
Flirt mistake 3: Asking for a date instead of just a small "upsell."
This is a frequent mistake guys make. They will go talk to a woman, get things going, and then end it with: "Hey, you want to go out on a date sometime?"
You can see the complete change in her eyes and her expression when he does this.
Asking for the date is a big turn off when it's done too soon. It's like walking onto a used car lot, and after only 2 minutes of small talk, the salesman asks you to come in and fill out the paperwork. Whoah!
Even on the phone, you don't want to jump in too far, too fast. Remember that a man represents a whole bunch of "what ifs" to a woman, and your goal is to not start dancing in the minefield of her anxieties and blow things up.
Instead, the best dating advice for this situation is that you go for the easy "upsell." So here's my dating advice for men who want to avoid this mistake flirting with women:
If you've ever gone to McDonalds, you've been offered an "upsell" at one point or another. You probably heard it like this: "Would you like fries with that?"
It's a brilliant marketing strategy that has increased McDonald's revenues massively. Just by offering a small add-on, we're more likely to agree to it.
Don't ask for the date. Instead, just ask for a quick cup of coffee or tea. A small meeting like this is non-assuming, and will get a much higher acceptance rate from women. They won't see it as threatening, and they'll see it as a legit way to actually get to know you.
PLUS you'll radically reduce the amount of flakes you get. (Most women flake on dates because she just forgets if she was really into you in the first place. She cooled off.)
So there you go. Three of my hottest flirting tips for men that you can put to use RIGHT NOW.
The Lesson: Flirting in a nutshell.
When out at night, I go for an insta-date. I don't call it that, but after talking and hanging awhile, my a.d.d. kicks in and I want to change venues and I invite her with me. Taking a woman a few different places really solidifies you in her mind. Then I always "get tired of the crowd and invite her over for some more drinks and a movie. Even if she's not up for it, I get her number and text her the next day to set up date #2 which is so much easier than date #1.
Psychologically this works as several venues creates an impression that she knows you longer and can trust you more
Really like this one, and gives a chance to show off the bike.
Aye, nice Schwinn you got there!
Its a Huffy!, she can ride on the pegs.
Are we talking about bikes or women here?
In order to help defeat that approach anxiety.. Guys should simply just try to be more social with EVERYONE. If you see someone walking down the street wearing a band shirt you like, compliment them on it. If they're wearing the hat of your favorite sports team, compliment. In line at the checkout make small talk about the weather or something..
I had the longest problem with this, not really because of approach anxiety, but just being social feels mentally draining to me sometimes. Like some days, I just don't want to fucking talk to anyone, even my friends and classmates. I wanna just veg out and relax.
It's kind of like lifting in the way that at first, going to the gym sucks.. But you push yourself to do it anyway.. Eventually going to the gym turns into an enjoyable almost meditative part of your day where you get an hour to just not think and focus on getting stronger or faster.
Also, on being social and talkative, working in retail and service industry will help you out a ton with this. It's shitty work, but there's a pretty decent social aspect to jobs like this.
Newly single, haven't been on a date in 20 years, and this is exactly what I've been forcing myself to do. Moved to a new town, and every place I go, I make small talk with someone. I sit at the counter at the local breakfast place, chatting with staff and customers. Only been a couple weeks, but already I don't feel so closed off from people. Trying out monk mode, so its not chasing tail yet, but I'm amazed how open people are when you just smile and chat. When I don't act like an introverted creep, they don't treat me like one.
I do this pretty often, most guys say thanks, but once I was in downtown Palo Alto, which is a hot spot for super beta software developers and I complimented a guy for his shirt. He just looked at me funny and continued walking the other direction.
Some guys will think you're an weirdo for it, which is pretty sad, but such is the social autism amongst tech workers.
Fuck em if they can't take a compliment. Even if you were hitting on him, who cares, some one makes a compliment, you say thanks.
I'm awkward where sometimes someone will say something to me and it's like i forget how to talk so i just look at them weird. Then they think I'm being arrogant and an asshole when really I was just caught off guard cause I'm socially inept.
You care what a random beta thinks about you? Remembering even one failed social interaction is using up brain space. If your social advances fail, immediately will yourself that you're awesome and keep moving forward. I'm not calling you down or anything, just wanted to share my thoughts.
Mis-interpretation of peoples' reactions fucks up a lot of new guys trying to learn the social skills they were deprived of in childhood from neglect, abuse, too many electronics, or a broken / single parent / no parent household. Most people miss a crucial factor in social interaction - the reaction you get from people is determined by, at best, half of what you do. The other 50%, usually more, depends on their mood and mental state. What nobody tells newbies is that you can discern other peoples' internal state by consciously observing them for 10-15 seconds. If you already have the "hunch" your gut does this for you and you end up with either feeling good & wanting to say Hi from looking at them ...or not.
You must not have been doing this for a long time. I get weird looks all the time (people are just weird, bro).
that's abnormal. Most people aren't that autistic/unconfident.
If this was included in the original post, it would have been complete.
I'm pushing myself very hard on this and it's getting a lot easier. Opening is so much more natural when you do it all the time. I'm a social guy who does hardcore analysis from his office at home, so I need social contact.....I just go to the bar and talk with everyone.
It's gotten much easier to talk to potential exploits.....and also easier to qualify them because the opening was so much more natural.
I've worked retail before, and it didn't do anything for me other than make it worse to try and socialize in any way.
Maybe wrong environment? I imagine working retail at a store that's usually a chore to go to.. Like the Verizon store or Tmobile would suck, because people usually only go there when they have a headache issue with their phone.
I worked at an organic grocery store in a hip neighborhood. Lots of hot women there one of my customers even invited me to a free yoga session.
There is no right environment, it's not how things work down here. There are no neighborhoods like what you're saying that I know of or ever could afford to live around in my area. Whole Foods and things like that are hipster-esque libshit stores that don't make money down south.
Great point, in fact I usually talk to an employee (just random think like "what time do you close") then as I thank them, I start walking to the person I'm interested in talking to and it feels like I just conversed very recently and got the words flowing like sea turtles through a tuna net.
I've made an acronym.
Approach quick
Quiet, let her talk about herself
Use your body and eyes, be indirectly direct.
Always up sell
There's also the FORD small talk suggestions.
Family
Occupation
Recreation
Dreams
Side note for people that are not aware of FORD. There is also talking points you should avoid unless your with friends or family called RAPE.
Religion
Abortion
Politics
Eonomics
I am pretty sure the E stands for Exes.
Yeah, I can't really imagine economics being a sore subject. Hell, any girl smart enough to debate economics with me would be a keeper.
Man I couldn't agree more. Most of the women I meet who can even remotely follow along economically are already married
That's because they know all too well the opportunity cost of the CC.
A hot woman with an interest in economics.
An oxymoron if I ever heard one.
It's about not talking about money, because if you do, you're excluding those who don't have as much as you do, or you're excluding yourself by showing how poor you are.
I don't know. What if you're salt water macro and she's fresh water macro? Things can get explosive!
I bursted out laughing when I read E stands for economics. That's the most random word that he could have chosen, lol
I'll go with PEAR, thank you.
But those are all the interesting things...
That's why we have the internet. Now we can talk about this stuff constantly without damaging our reputation
Religion and politics are sort of main-stay topics to avoid with anyone you have just met. Abortion sort of falls into the religion category, but it's rarely a topic of conversation in general I would say. And what's wrong with talking about economics? That's also a subject I'm sure is rarely touched upon generally.
Economics and politics are pretty intertwined.....so things can get out of hand.
This is actually a better list for off topic subjects at the bar. Switch the last e for exes and that would be a better list of things to avoid with women.
What percentage of bitches know a single thing about economics?
Many of the indoctrinated women's studies college types cling to redistribution of wealth and socialism like a religion. They're out there.
Don't talk about RAPE at a bar wether you're with men or women
I think you're spot on with economics as a no-no. My previous LTR was a hardcore socialist and she lost her fucking mind when she found out I was a registered Libertarian. It takes an experience like that to understand what you meant, but I think you're right.
This depends. If you're like most people here this is perfect but for those using TRP for LTR and marriage; better to find out how they feel about these things maybe months in rather than years invested. I agree though during the beginning dating period you just should avoid this topic.
As a bartender these are also the 4 topics I don't allow discussed in my bar.
FORD is more for casual interactions ie parties, social events- not so much girls you're trying to beef no?
Sure; but those are the best places to meet women because the atmosphere is so much more relaxed and women drop their guard a bit. You're also going to meet women in bars and clubs that have groups around them and you will need to converse on the fly with lots of people. Being great with small talk is going to up your social capital for perspective women around you.
Plus its low stress risk free practice you can do any time you're out of the house.
Haha fuck yeah. D.E.N.N.I.S. System 2.0
It's the 'Implication'
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I partially agree with you but not all flirting is cold approaching. I also think that after the first few minutes of a cold approach if she's gotten comfortable and you've led the conversation well she will want to talk about herself. I put it in there because it's basic Dale Carnegie advice, people want to talk about themselves, their name is the sweetest sound they can hear. If you talk to much about yourself you can't build any mystery and you can't collect any useful information about the other person. But again I do agree with you on a fully cold approach in the first few minutes.
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I prefer the DENNIS system. But this is good too.
Explain, I'm too lazy to Google.
https://youtu.be/95Fx2aYQbQs
Is she auditioning to suck your dick or pillage your wallet?
I learned to shut the fuck up about this decades ago. It completely changes the dynamic of your interaction and puts you in play as a provider. As far as she needs to know is that you are a homeless felon with a dick so powerful she'll roll her eyes up in her head so far she can inspect her own tonsils.
There has been a lot of PUA walking these venerable halls lately. Terminal TRP is SMDOGOOTWSSC(d)--suck my dick or get out of the way so she can (oh, and the door is over there).
FORD is good advice. Family is a good way to get them going, it branches to nationality and you can have fun with that. Start with food, it's the least offensive.
What is up-selling exactly in the context of interaction with women?
That's a good question and there's a lot more involved to it then OP leads on.
When you speak with a women you want to have sex with you are selling her a big purchase. Your dick. It doesn't cost men much to have sex. But women risk pregnancy, social shame, un-returned emotional connection, and perceived innocence for when they do shift to a resource grab for baby making. I know we talk a lot on redpill about how women are on the 'cock carousel' and some women are truly giving it away for almost free. But it's all relative of course, most women are still serial monogamists or at least very hesistant to jump dick to dick (which is still a lot more openly promiscuous then times past). Women are also looking for the best man they can. The best option. Why do you think they are such obsessive and compulsive shoppers? It's because women as child barers in nature are natural dependent on someone else support for a period of time. Because of this natural inclination to garner resources and security women are never satisfied. There's always something better. There's always more resources to corner. So when you're chatting and flirting with a women you are selling her on building up enough time and attraction for her to have sex with you. Each second she's with you is time she could be entertaining and courting other offers from potential suitors with better genetics and more resources (this also why women work in professions with high exposure to men).
When you finish your first approach with a women, and she hasn't run away screaming, offering a small add on to the current interaction you're selling a women says loud and clear that she doesn't have to invest a lot of time, it's an easy sell (it's an attempt to avoid flaking). Inviting a girl on a date requires her to block out her whole night, get dressed, and attempt to impress (and she might not have built up enough desire to do that impressing).
You're always 'selling' to women. They know you want sex. Women are buying your dick but you can't give it to them at the check out line (unless of course you are a stellar high value product).
OP sums it up nicely as well:
Great tips, well written and concise.
Flaking is a huge problem when trying to pickup women in bars/clubs, always invite them home indirectly. e.g
"Ill drop you home, I just have to grab a coat from my apartment real quick"
Have a good photo of your pet on your phone: "Come meet my dog"
The thing about inviting her home is it's one of those things you can only fuck up.
She's not stepping through your door unless she's already decided she's willing to fuck you, but she might change her mind at any moment, and she wants the option to do so basically up until the moment you both start taking each others' clothes off. The key is really plausible deniability on her part. You have to leave her a way out, and often the best way to do this is to keep things extremely innocent when it comes to escalating. Your actions have to be clearly escalating, leading towards the bedroom, but your words should be something she can hamster away as innocent.
This is why having an "excuse" to be at your place works so well. If she follows you in, she's almost definitely willing to fuck, and if she backs out, it's because you cut off her option to say no and she panicked.
How would one go about doing that?
bingo, did some tests this weekend. walked up to a few girls to dance and they almost always went for it for :30 seconds. Actually ASKED a few girls to dance with myself and even FOR A friend and they always looked absolutely disgusted...
wait you were at a club and went up to girls to ask them to dance and they were disgusted but you went up to them to show pictures of your dog and they wanted to dance? were you at a circus?
When you say, "walk up to dance", do you mean you go dance on/close to a girl without saying anything?
Summary: Act!
Hm, might be the reason why I get next to no flakes. They always say yes to that question.
Also, "coffee" gives plenty of room for plausible deniability. "We only went for a coffee" is miles different than "we only went for a date", both in her head and to her friends.
Going for a walk works even better for me, since it's so much easier to physically escalate. You're already moving around anyway!
That's a bit weird, unless you're using it as a here and now thing like get out of the bar/party/coffee shop/house for alone time.
I literally meet in a park or so, same as you would in a bar. Also works wonderfully in combination with the locations you mentioned.
Yeah I get that, but are you saying that you ask women "to go for a walk sometime" hahaha it's just a little bit different than "get a drink sometime" IDK
It's the common thing to do in in Eastern Europe and Russia, with your friends and more.
Oh, here in the USA we drive our tanks and shoot machine guns instead. Culture y'know
Plus exercise increases her endorphins and she'll likely be in a good mood as well as want to see you again to experience more endorphin release.
Is the idea not to ask for a date, but to ask for a specific quick activity such as going for a casual drink, going for a quick bite, or go shopping? Activities that don't hold her hostage of social pressure and thus enabling plausible deniability?
Also, instead of asking if they "want to grab a coffee sometime?", go for the route of "I'm grabbing a coffee, want to join me?" or better "I really want to try out this coffee place, you should come". Statements usually radiate more confidence than questions (this doesn't mean stop asking questions) and if you give off the vibe that you are going to go whetever or not she joins you, she is more likely to join.
Any other ideas instead of just going for coffee or tea?
A walk, but then I run out of starter ideas.
Say you go for a walk and want to escalate and go somewhere else. What would you have in mind then?
I always did all that in the same park
I have no experience with women so I wouldn't know how that works out
I liked your tips.
But reading about game always makes me confuse. Some say to be more direct, some say to be indirect.. There are a lot of conflitous informations. I guess that one should try'em all and see what works for him.
Trying stuff is key. Remember, direct vs indirect depends on both the guy and the girl. Some schlubs can be very direct as that's all they have. Some beefcakes would run women off instantly if they were too direct, because they're already intimidating. Look at it from the female point of view. They are horny little critters who are down to fuck if 1) they feel safe and 2) they'll have fun. There are real reasons for them to fear for their safety.......and fake reasons too. Try not to trigger either.
Something I've noticed over time when girls reply to anything smooth or wity I say, but thought maybe it was just me and the girls I connected with was today confirmed on a Snapchat news article as being awalt.
Whenever I say anything wity in a flirty way, I've noticed that 99% of girls reply with "that's smooth af" tbf it kills the buzz, it kills the game, imagine having banter with a friend who doesn't banter back and just laughs and says "fuck, that's sharp", a small amount of girls kill it by responding too sexually or trying and failing, I've only known a few who actually respond with anything smart or challenging.
Today on Snapchat is an article about 22 smoothest comments, in each case it's a guy being very wity and usually the girl replies something with "smooth af"
Just proves, girls are not as witty or creative as guys, they are made to be gamed. Out wit a girl and she'll be putty in your hands. Made me laugh, and feel relief.
My favorite upsell...
Want a ride?
It's a ride in an old muscle car, hotrod, or very high powered street machine. Fun, exciting, dangerous, and sinister looking cars work best. Once they say yes, I can get them alone and escalate easily. The loud, obnoxious scary fast cars get them wet, v8s trump 4 cylinders every time.
I drive a '94 Saturn with 197K miles. Yeah.....if don't fuck them before they see my car, I don't fuck them. But, it's paid for!
Financially sound decisions are much more important than materialistic sluts... And that comes from someone who loves materialistic sluts
It's an appliance, very milquetoast. Can easily work against you. My cars are "in addition to" not "the reason for" meaning they fit who and what I am. But driving a sinister looking beast can help you out. A beat to fuck Saturn or Civic can fuck you up.... Unless you play off the idgaf of diving it. Shit, my winter beaters are nearly invisible to everyone, rusty 01 Taurus and a Dakota 4x4. Low key never mind looking at this pos, can still get laid, they simply aren't a feature.
Yeah man, I was giving you shit, even if you are senior endorsed.
I live in a city so it's no problem. I have good excuse to walk. I live right next to a light rail station and a 10 minute walk from 8 college bars. I'm a responsible guy! I never drink and drive!
If I had a different lifestyle, I'd have a different car.
The most recent fast car I drove was my last LTR's Lexus SC400. Goddamn, what a first car to have.....I'd call her spoiled but she works extremely hard. Anyway, I drove it way faster than she does and you're damn right, I saw her panties stick right to the ceiling a number of times. Nothing like downshifting to 2nd at 60 and pressing into the seat. 32 valve 4.0 V8. I'm lucky I only got 2 tickets.
I'm conversing, it's fun. I've only known one girl who wasn't turned on by a fast car. First ex wife rode around the block in my 11 second 79 Firebird. Only hit 60 in a block and made the stop sign across from our house. She got out and never got back in it. Man she bitched when I spent time or money on that thing. She still bitches about it and we been divorced since 03. Cunts, what ya gonna do?
LMFAO, that's what I'm gonna do.
Worked pretty well when I had my Corvette and bike
Bikes make average guys hotter, fat old guys creepier, and young guys on a bike have to work hard to fuck it up if they aren't fat.
Same thing going on. Fast, loud, dangerous, not particularly safe.
Vettes, it depends on you again. Big trucks, exotic cars, same thing. For what are you compensating? If you look ok and have some game the vettes work as well as anything.
Two of my GTOs are painted. One 70 was satin black for a long time, slammed in front, stock height in back for a sinister rake. Got tons of ass in that thing. Then I painted it the original color which is a very light gold, almost champagne. Very few girls look, and the only change is the color. It's not staying that shade.
The other one, 65, I painted a pearl blue, like the new Ford trucks. Slightly dropped in front, 255 tires out back on TT rims. Rumbly exhaust, but not overly loud like the gold one. It gets attention, far more than the gold one, but not on the same scale as a satin black one does. It's fun but not dangerous hotrod. Works great on 18-24 and 38 up girls. Kind of old guy cruiser vibe with it despite running mid 12s in the 1/4.
My black open header 68, well let's just say it makes panties wet and all I have to do is start the damn thing. The 700hp Firebird with 3.5" header mufflers and huge tires, slammed in front, meaner than hammered owl shit gets pussy damn easy. The bright red 98 bird that runs low 13s actually drives girls away, it screams midlife crisis even though I've owned it for 15 years. What it is as well as the color and stance make a difference. Ratrods get LOTS of girl attention.
I had all this in my 20s.. Z06 with custom rims and multiple bikes..I didn't even know how to pick up girls when I finally became single because I never had to do it
I had all kinds of crazy shit in my 20s. Even more now in my 40s. I was as surprised as anyone that chicks dig silly fast cars even if they look like shit and you need a tetanus shot to lean on it. Especially if they look like shit was mind blowing to me.
I saw a car the other day in my area that was completely rotten but it had nice rims. I mean the car had a layer of crust over it and a hole. Lol. SpongeBob cars with giant wheels are also awesome.
Rims is the most important part of a car. Once you have rims, that's it.
They do like shiny objects
I think tiny neon motorcycles are cool, teenagers in my area ride them a lot.
My favorite cars are Nissan Cube and VW Bug because they are cube and circle shaped respectively. I also like cartoon character cars such as "donks" with giant wheels. I'm not sure how to tell what brand a car is except I would like to get a generic brand not a name brand. Buying generics is always the best, I buy generic shoes instead of Js.
I know that Ford Fiesta is one of the best brands of cars these days. You should convert your Ford Fiesta into a Donk car by attaching gigantic wheels and painting Pokemon on it.
I've always wanted a Trabant. Tiny 56 chevy.
The Trabant is quite cubical indeed.
I'd like to upsell shortly before they arrive for a date.
'Hey, the weather is actually nice, I wanna go to the beach. Are you up for it?'
If they say yes, and they all do, I inform them I pick them up by car and of we go. It works like a charm.
How do you escalate in a car?
Touch her, kiss, finger, fuck. It's not difficult.
Finally got the fucking courage to ask out a girl for the first time. Went to get a coffee, and the girl behind the counter I found absolutely gorgeous. We talked for a while while my coffee was getting made, and she was laughing and asking me pretty personal questions. I never go to the coffee shop, and I'll probably never be back, so I decided to say fuck it, I'll be pissed at myself if I don't try.
I was nervous as fuck, pretty sure my voice was shaking a bit but I told her hey, I'm about to head out but do you want to grab a drink sometime? She said sure, wrote down her number (old school) and gave it to me and I walked out feeling fucking awesome. I think it helps a TON to work through the anxious feelings. Allow yourself to feel nervous, because fuck, if you've never done it before you SHOULD feel nervous. Train yourself not to run from fear, but to embrace it and attack it head on.
Feels good, man. Here's to another one tomorrow.
I'd like to emphasize that eye contact is as tricky as it is golden. Especially golden. It should be the first skill you should train as it is a relatively safe way to learn to flirt. Especially for the insecure guys like I once was. It's a subtle way of opening up a girl without actually approaching. It is also a perfect way to gauge if a girl is reciprocal. And it is as simple as just looking at each other and not look away. So there you have it. No reason not to try it.
Small disclaimer. If I find a girl attractive I look her in her eyes. If she is mind blowing attractive, it used to be tough though. I naturally classify myself above, equal or below a certain arbitrary attractiveness level. It's a silly automatic pattern that is hard to turn off. The urge was then to be the first to look away. Do not look away. Whatever you do, fight that urge and keep looking well passed into your own discomfort level. It's a thing you have to go through.
Also, there is a balance at openly flirting with your eyes and it becoming freaky. It's not a stare down. It's really looking at someone. Seeing the twinkling of her eyes, the way she tilts her head, how she looks away, how she looks back and mixed with all that how you look at her, when you give a her a smile or a smirk. When to start the banter, etcetera.
A bit of background as to what situations I use it in. I teach people to climb by day and a lot of women pass through my hands during the week. Professional I mean. I don't go out and charge. I fervently dislike going out at night in noisy environments. I prefer normal encounters with women wherever that happens. The art form itself was trained and honed at work though, as the frequency of different people is high there. So it is a natural training ground. I meet them at the counter, bit of small talk, where the initial flirting starts, proceeding to the climbing lesson. It's easy and it can be done with anyone. Kids are great subjects to practice with, because usually you feel the safest. And they are fun, because it is so easy to judge their reaction. But you can also practice this with guys without signaling you're a gay guy. You just notch it down a bit and be charming. Being charming is the same as flirting with girls. So anyone can practice it anywhere with anyone.
When I started experimenting with looking, it baffled me how easy and effective it is. What helped most was disproving my own conviction that looking at a girl is freaky. It's not. In fact, they love it. And some don't. And that's fine. Those are the ones that quickly disengage the meeting of the eyes and try to find another thing that is more interesting. Fair enough, that's your first signal she is not interested.
But, if another girl happens to look back and doesn't disengage, the fun starts. There is no rule book to this. It's something you discover and write yourself. Because how you use your face is different as to how I use it. And I absolutely love to play with it. Maybe you don't. But whatever you do, don't put on a death stare or use the 1000 yard stare. It is not a contest. Instead I use my whole face to subtly engage with whatever she is radiating. Or when her expression is neutral, I shortly look intently at her or give her a barely noticeable facial approving expression. And see if her expression changes. I happen to love girls with an expressive personality, so it naturally gravitate towards them and the introverts weed themselves out. I don't shy away from 'getting caught' eyeing her up. Yes, I just did look at your titties. Looking at her lips is sensual as fuck and coupled all this with some charming / flirty banter and the whole interaction becomes even more enjoyable.
Dead give aways are a slight tilt downwards with her head when she looks at you, a lingering smile, you capturing her looking at you, her eyes darting from your eyes to your lips. A couple of these and it's on.
You can do this anywhere with anyone. Just look them in the eyes a bit longer than you're comfortable with and see what happens.
I've been chipping away at this, trying to break that hesitation. When it works, there's nothing like it. I couldn't believe it. There's another world happening above people's shoulders, speaking a different language entirely, that I've missed out on my whole life because I walked around staring at the ground.
It's been very difficult to break the ingrained behavior of looking away as I've done it 1,000 times a day for over 25 years, but every single time I tough it out, when I fight the fear of looking like a weirdo, holy shit. Magic. It's ecstasy.
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Work on being more expressive with your face in general. Women live it. Opening them wide, like in surprise or shock at her beauty. Eyebrows etc. id suggest picking up body language books, and work on using your body to show the attraction. Not just the hungry eyes and direct words. Back to the deniability for the women. She can always feign ignorance she knew you were flirting.
More on this topic:
If she's attracted to you, it's like being up by 14 points going into the 4th quarter. You'll probably win unless you screw it up big time.
Need more things like this post here. Too much "Look at x women acting like typical blah blah blah." I mean I get why they do it but seeing a post like that every time just makes it feel like TRP is now full of just women hating betas. Keep it up with quality posts such as this.
Yeah, hopefully this post will be seen by the people coming here expecting misogyny. They might realize TRP isn't the boogeyman under the bed after all.
It is though. Just as SJWs are the beast to be reviled. Everyone is the worst they could ever be.
I feel need to warn you guys to be careful with this one.
A week ago I saw a woman sitting alone on a park bench. Without much hesitation and without waiting for IOIs, I decided to approach. She was staring in the distance, so I walked up to her and asked "What are you daydreaming about?". We were chatting for maybe under a minute, and then her husband and her kid showed up.
Yesterday I saw a girl sitting alone next to a river, and I decided to wait a little bit and observe the surrounding, just to make sure she's not with someone. Then I proceeded with approach, and it turned out she was waiting for her parents. I jokingly asked her should I run. I thought it was smart to speed things up and get her number before her parents show up.
I'm not advocating people not to approach, but if you see a girl sitting by herself somewhere during the day, it's a good idea to observe a bit from a distance before you decide to approach.
One time I tried flirting with a girl on a train. She was underage.
This was good bro, you left me wanting more. Good Job!
Easiest is to pay a little bit of attention to the fashion trends. Attractive girls are into this stuff, simply pay her a compliment on something she is wearing/carrying. Don't compliment HER, say nothing like oh yer pretty or any beta bullshit like that, keep it secular. Then ask her about her job or some dumb shit like that. If you're good looking enough for her standards, she'll talk to you. If the verbiage fizzles out, next target. Number 2 is excellent advice, I see way too many guys try to initiate physical contact wayy to quickly and that puts you in a hole (and further away from hers).
I absolutely love hot girls in nice boots. The boots almost don't matter, but girls go through a lot picking out boots that they like. So I see a girl in boots I ALWAYS complement the boots. Just a simple "nice boots" works fine.
They light up EVERY TIME.
Shoes in general are something nearly all women focus on and value.
Great post, hope there's more to come.
About point 3, wouldn't it be better to have drinks, rather than coffee or tea? I think it's easier to escalate at night rather than in the afternoon.
Meeting for coffee or tea is a lighter upsell. For many women going for drinks may feel too much like a date.
And a few of them surprisingly don't drink.
Drinks are another way, yes. Coffee or tea is only one example of how you could use this. You'd definetely have an advantage at night time and be able to close quicker if you played your cards right.
Someone made a great point above us in the comments. It goes back to plausible deniability. Which sounds better to her friends and parents etc? "We only went for drinks." "We only went for coffee." "We only went on a date." It sounds way more innocent and gives her much more plausible deniability.
I like this post, I'll throw my hat in here aswell.
Everyone has their own style so to speak. I have two ways that I game, depending on my mood/what my vibe is at the moment. I'm either high energy "party guy" that girls will gravitate towards (this is the one that will have the highest chance of outright fucking them that night) or I'm more laid back and personal (highest chance of getting a date without them flaking)
I was at a party the other night and I was talking to this girl who obviously didn't party a lot. One thing I do is I point out something personal about them, something that you would only notice if you paid very close attention to them. I pointed out that It was obvious she didn't party a lot, she seemed awkward. It's important not to make fun of her when you do something like this, I told her that I was the same way, and still am. She laughs. At this point she's stuck to me like glue because in this hectic environment I'm extremely comfortable and she gravitated towards that.
OP mentioned flirting with your entire body. When you're doing subtle game like I'm describing this is EXTREMELY fucking important. When I talk to her, I have a consistent deep voice. I have lazer eye contact. At least twice during our conversation I'm literally eyeing her up and down in front of her face. Whenever I'm done speaking or whenever she asks me something I take a short pause (not an autisticly long pause) just a normal pause. All of these things draw her in. You ever heard a great story teller do their thing? They do things with their voice and body that make you physically lean in. We are trying to emulate that feeling. When you do that to a women it's like you are fucking their mind so to speak.
Kissed her/got her number within 3 or so minutes.
I'm not saying you have to be this cool fucking mysterious guy, being cold/uninviting is not how you get pussy. I'm just saying that whatever your mood is - stay in that mood with women. If you are hype and you try to dial it down - you will lose all subtly. If you are more introverted and try to be super awesome and fun - you will seem fake.
Bookmarked. From previous experience, these are the things that matter.
This was timely. Last night I was dutifully putting together my OK Cupid account. I was throughly demoralized. I'm looking to plate younger women who will one day make lovely wives. I would never get through their filters. Never. I know from direct experience that younger women will go for limited relationships with the right older guy (who isn't paying to play) but they will never be found online. I don't have kids, don't want kids, and won't take care of another man's spawn, so women in their 30's and early 40's, the ones who would look at me online, would next me without a second thought. Online is an absolute waste for me.
Deleting that shit and going out.
OK Cupid is pretty much the ONLY online dating / hookup site that works for me to find interested girls. And I'm an older guy looking for younger ladies too. I get about 50% response to messaging, and I meet about 50% of the ones that respond in real life.
Thanks for piping in. I met a much younger woman, the old fashioned way, in class. Two observations from 4.5 year LTR: 1) She hated emotional immaturity, and loved it when I acted my age and 2) I developed horrible oneitis and she frankly resented the hell out of it.
How does this square with your experiences?
Yea it does seem like the emotional maturity is the main thing younger girls are looking for when they show interest in someone my age (or, in me, at least).
And, isn't the oneitis sort of showing a lack of emotional maturity? Or maybe she's seeing it that way? The girls I've met have always been very practical about the relationship. In fact I'd say they'd be just as happy dating an older married guy, except they are afraid of any drama that would cause...
I have a cousin who is about 48 and he went on a cheating rampage.....and he slayed. Women loved him because he was alpha as fuck, but also safe because he always went home to his wife.
I wish your comment was higher....every woman I've ever met has been very practical. Men are the Disney Drama Queens, not women.
Yes, oneitis is absolutely a lack of emotional maturity. I never loved anyone like this, including my wives. It was dicey, but we worked it out. She was 19, I was 39 when we got together. She basically spent her undergrad years with me (and also got away from loving, good, but religious whackjob parents). It was very practical from her point of view.....she had a nice place to stay, space for her hobbies, a chance to grow socially, with a loving partner. And when she got to grad school, n = 1.
I'm not past it, but I'm getting there. Heres our breakup story: She didn't get in her first run at grad school. She spent a gap year with me, mostly just fucking off and having fun (me working from home the whole time). She nailed the GRE (I'm talking high 90th percentiles) and got into a great and fully funded PhD program, computational biology. I drove her to her new apartment, helped her set it up, backpacked along the coast, fucked her one last time in a cottage overlooking the ocean, and flew home. This was two months ago.
The takeaway, and the reason I post so much on Red Pill, is this: The only reason I had a chance with her in the first place is that I presented myself as a playboy who was down for a limited relationship. I didn't honor that with her. If I don't honor it with the next, I might as well get married.
She would wave her Bachelor's in Theoretical Mathematics in the face of anyone who told her that women can't logic........but she wanted a Red Pill man.
addendum: she revels in jousts of wit, loves her status as an intimidatingly good looking woman......and is shockingly submissive in bed.
Good tips, solid post.
How should you approach the coffee though? Should it be a quick "get to know her" event until the next upsell, or escalate, escalate, escalate, venue change etc. until you get her to your apartment that same day and bang her? What should you talk about during the date, is boring "so what do you do?" small talk allowed or are you still trying to game and entertain her like when you first met?
Great fucking post. It's simple and powerful. These are the little things that will even potentially get girls to close on you by just not fucking it up. These are all selling techniques that work in any arena of getting what you want. I liked "indirectly direct". I used to call this being "specifically vague" lol. Women love a guy that can approach without pretense and slowly segue into escalating without it being obvious. It shows executive function and restraint; you're not a bed-wetter or premature ejaculator.
Step 1. Be attractive
Step 2. Don't be unattractive
The better you look the easier game is. Yes. But you still have to run game. The good looking guys just get quicker feedback and develop faster as a result.
There are lots of attractive guys that fail with women or don't reach anywhere near their potential.
I would normally just walk away, and if I see her again, then maybe I'd upsell. That's just me though.
Really enjoyed this post. Saving this one OP.
Good post. I have a question. Wouldn't it be better to just ask them to go out on a date? If they say no or don't respond, wouldn't it save you the time and effort trying to get them to like you?
Not really. At most they'll assume neediness if you go straight for the date. You can do it, but I don't recommend it. Asking for coffee gives her more plausible deniability which is what you want.
I just feel like the word "date" has become somewhat old fashioned and cheesy in 2016. Asking for a date is a good way for her to put you in the provider role, which is ok if you want that but I sure as hell don't.
Hmm I guess you're right. You have to have high SMV or look super attractive to get away with the word "date". I used to ask them out for coffee leaving the word date out. No second meetup. I did ask them out(using the word date) still nothing.
after my divorce, finding TRP and getting back into things my method is now .. just walk up, no waiting for eye contact, indications of interest, etc. sometimes i even approach women am nor particularly feeling just to go.through.the motions especially if i.have been busy in.the office and havent had a chance to go out all week
Tell her it was a nice chat and if she knew any possibility on how to continue it some time. then go have a coffe with her.
This is absolutely the kind of content I needed right now;
But I WANT MORE.
I want more text, some videos, examples...
What is the keyword for content like this? Flirting? Can anyone commend a good source?
Really great advice about not directly asking for a date as it creates unnecessary pressure. I made that mistake recently and wondering how i should approach it more casually. But it seems like religion doesnt have to be a dirty subject if you avoid soap boxes.
Women are much more likely to be religious, Occasionally I have asked what they get out of it And it usually ties into her family and friends As she shares a private experience or feeling. Just dont turn it into a debate.
Yeah, I fucked up that last point pretty bad a week ago. Met a gal who was so visibly into me if she was ugly people would say it was creepy. Went up, talked, got her number and immediately went for the ol "let's do sushi tomorrow night".
Mistake.
She's about it, I'm looking forward to it, she flakes. Need to start small by the looks of it.
I had that happen with a girl I run into once or twice a week. We flirted, I made a joke about her being blond and flicked her redish-brown hair. She giggled and looked shyly down when I did it.
Next day I saw her as I was leaving I casually asked for her number. She said "No" right as her friend piped up "She's mine!" Now I don't know if they're dating or she was just being a protective mother hen. Doesn't matter because I said "Ok" with a smile and walked off. At the time it felt like it was too quick of an ask. Or perhaps too late as I should have asked her right then. But she got pulled away for something.
Either way we're friendly when we see each other but I don't think about her beyond when she's in my line of sight.
My point is, I'm sometimes too aggressive. Within a few minutes I'll ask for the number. Just a few things like corny jokes and things in between asking her name, etc. I'm working on it.
this is Flirting 101
That was enjoyable to watch. Never heard of Craig Ferguson. A natural. That first girl could barely contain herself and rubbed his desk endlessly.
Check out his other stuff on YouTube. He's legendary for his swagger
Correct me if Im wrong. In mistake three - is it all about avoiding the word "date"? Psychologically even if she wants to go on a date with you, she'd prefer not to feel the pressure of it. A lot of dating advice says to call it by name but I feel like it works the other way around. (??)
Also (and Im sure about it) Instead of asking for a date it is better to use: "We should drink some coffee sometime" and/or "Lets go get a cup of tea".
Using statements, not questions is important.
OP, this one always confuses me. I know there are exceptions and women do often consider it this way. But it makes little to no sense.
Small example: I know a girl from my local gym. She lives in the same neighborhood as I do. I'm acquainted with her brothers, we worked out together. Twice I met her at parties and sometimes we'll pass each other on the street. She always comes and says hi and greets me when we meet. I guess she kind off likes me on a superficial level.
But we've never really talked or gotten to know each other. Just a couple quick words, which could be interpreted as flirtations. Though I always flirt with girls I find attractive, it just happens automatically. Thing is that I'm not interested in dating her. When I'm at the gym I'm busy, I have to stay in shape for my job. At the parties I've always been distracted.
Point is, I've never made a move on her. And I honestly have no plans to do so. Yet you are saying the timer in her head has been ticking all these months/years? And she now considers me less confident, less attractive. Which is of course bullshit.
There are a thousand different reasons why a man ain't gonna hit on a girl and only one of those is lack of confidence. So my question basically is, do you think women understand this. Or are they so drone like and pedistalled that they simply 'zone out' forever.
I think the mistake a lot of guys make on here is viewing everything in terms of binary truths. Most of the time this is the case, but obviously there's exceptions.
I think, considering the kind of guy that'll make his way to TRP, that explicit black and white rules can be helpful. But people need to understand that things aren't the same every goddamn time. There's so many variables with this shit.
Obviously, though it helps that women often deal out in black and whites. Especially the borderline/narcissistic types. I've met few women with balanced emotions. So TRP is actually more effective therefor.
Exactly, TRP is effective, but you said it yourself by using the word "often". My point really wasn't directed at you particularly, just the general view that some posters have. There are general truths, and universal truths. It's important to have a nuanced understanding of that. Though, personally, you seem to have that.
I agree, nuance in everything leads to better results. Though this comes from experience and maturity. I actually see this allot with newbies and people who subscribe to manosphere thoughts.
They take things to literal and stop thinking critically for themselves. Everything is approached in this binary type of way and they end up missing the point entirely. Which actually makes them less succesfull, if not at all.
But there was a quote which someone posted on TRP. It said "All guns are loaded" which basically means to better be safe than sorry. I will never forget that quote. I think allot of posts on this forum are made up following this fashion. AWALT is a good example, but more subtle ideas just aswell.
How does the up sell differ from a date? Is it just omitting the word date for the word Coffee or w.e?
Too stupid to know a cup of coffee is a date?
Women will hamster that it's not 'really' a date. That's the whole point OP is trying to get at.
the hamster is a dumb creature but mighty strong. take advantage of it.
Duh they know, but it gives them plausible deniability and lack of responsibility which makes it low stakes and stress free for them. You're doing activities that could be very "just friends" at first while indirectly showing and entertaining sexual attraction.
RSD Julien likes to talk about creating a fantasy It can be as insanely stupid or unrealistic as you want, but if it invokes emotion she will want to play along and be involved in it.
If I jokingly said "Hey you look really cute, can I kidnap and sell you" If she's attracted she'll probably respond with something to play along like "how much are you going to sell me for" or like "pft you couldn't kidnap a kid if you tried" IDK... Point is she probably doesn't REALLY think i want to actually kidnap her, but she'll "believe it" to play along and feel the feelz and flirt.
Most women are REALLY FUCKING BORING so when you bring something intensely crazy they're going to want to leech off the laughs and feelz and play into the story.
I agree with the gist of what you're saying......I just think women are pushed to not be intellectually aggressive, which is part of why they're so fucking boring. I have never had a one night stand with a woman I didn't argue with for hours on end (about 5)
edit: 5 girls, not 5 hours.
I disagree. If I could get laid on command without leaving my bed, I wouldn't have the time nor need many of my interest, intellect, or hobbies.
How do I know this is true? In college I've been "Plan D" (break glass for dick) a few times. often used as rebound sex. I knew exactly what was going on and when I questioned her intentions I'd get something like "you know I could've booty called like anyone else.... but I really like you" fucking really? lol
Asking only for a drink and intentionally avoiding the word date seems to be a good way to get friendzoned. The girl will think that you're not interested in her romantically.
It depends on your behavior at both the initial meet (usually 5 minutes, rarely more than 10) and later on when you are having drinks or doing whatever plausibly deniable action to encourage future physical proximity.
Giving enough of an upbeat positive vibe (the 'be attractive' rule is not limited to appearance), coupled with her emotional investment (no flaking means a low level of investment in you, ie an indicator of interest) puts you on a foundation that is complimentary to later use of game and escalation at the follow up meet and greet.
Escalation is essential at the follow up meet and greet (or later hamstered as the second date). Use all the gaming advice of this sub; multiple changes of location (comfort building), a plausible excuse to isolate her at your place (plausible deniability, he was showing off his guitar, pets, etc.) if things are flowing smoothly then ramp up the kino beyond what would be acceptable in view of the general public (unless she is an exhibitionist, hmm... ).
Failing that, either she was not interested at all (her Chads SMV is bigger than yours, that time of month, whatever) or had other goals in mind (validation). Being classed as friendzone does not mean you have to stay in her orbit, just next her (amicably, never know which company hires her for Human Resources Management) and continue approaching as always.
In short; learn more abundance mentality. Just because one girl wants to friend zone you does not mean there is not another around the corner due for a service (...every 100 miles).
Trampled Under Foot - Led Zeppelin