OkCupid's Depressing Confirmation of the 80/20 Rule - The Majority of Men are Invisible to Women

Paladin2903 · 2017-01-25T13:26:41+00:00

It's very simple. Online ~~whoring~~ "dating" has turned women into hypergamous neo-prostitute monsters. Dating is now a business, for women. Hell, they don't even view you as a human with feelings, anymore. You're simply a list of statistics.

The attention they receive on these platforms have made them believe that they're all God's gift to the Earth.

They don't understand that roughly 80% of men would stick it in pretty much any female. They don't realize that these men simply want to pump them and dump them, and are just sweet talking them, feeding them lies, and are only artificially pumping up their ego, in order to fuck them.

The longer guys participate in these online "dating" games, the worse women will get, and the more power they (men) will take from themselves. You keep feeding the beast machine, then you have no one to blame but yourselves.

MattyAnon · 2017-01-25T13:50:24+00:00

I hypothesize that this is a direct result of the contraceptive pill and the female sexual liberation that followed.

It's a universal female trait. When selecting for sex, pick the best genes. 10% of men can easily impregnate all the women, so why shouldn't they all get the best genes?

The change in recent times is the move away from marriage, for-life monogamy and marrying young. This means that 1-1 pair matching not longer happens and the 80-20 rule becomes prevalent, reverting us to the natural state of women.

You can either sit around and feel hopeless at the situation or you can, to the best of your ability, do something about it and push yourself up into that 20%.

Top 20% is true, but you don't have to be top 20% at everything. And social credit counts for a LOT. eg fame. You can be the shortest ugliest little brute and women will flock if you're famous - fame being the ultimate social credit.

RedditAdminsSuck_88 · 2017-01-25T14:10:01+00:00

Social Media is further tipping the scales.

Back when I had a Facebook, or Instagram account, you'd see fat ass women, 3/10 on their best day, getting hundreds of likes and glowing comments from thirsty men for the most basic pictures. Didn't even need a provacative pose or wearing little clothing. They could post a picture of themselves taking a shit on the toilet and it would get 100s of thirsty likes and comments.

Now if a 3/10 fat ass can get that kind of validation, think about what a 5 gets.

Over inflated sense of self worth.

I think in the next decade or two we will see spikes in female suicides because of this. That will be the first social media generation to hit the wall, and they will be lonely, because social media told them their value is greater than what it really is. They won't be able to figure out why their mating options are so bad.

Walkebe · 2017-01-25T15:11:52+00:00

I wonder if this sense of entitlement has melded into other aspects of women's lives, like employment. We recently interviewed and offered a job to a fairly attractive post wall 8. She accepted and simply did not show up for the job on her agreed upon starting date. She didn't even bother to let us know and didn't respond to our calls or emails. Like she was flaking on a date or something.

metallica11 · 2017-01-25T17:41:15+00:00

It's not 80/20 anymore. It's closer to 95/5 if you want to talk about ease and consistency attracting women that are objectively considered somewhat attracted.

Don't believe me? Go to environment where there are a mix of people that represent society with an female friend/etc that is decently attractive. Mid Level Grocery Store. Sports Bar. Park

Ask them if there any attractive men around. Often times they will start looking, have a puzzled look on their face and say "I don't know, I can't really find any". Or they will say some bullshit to the affect of "well, I PERSONALLY don't find any of these men attractive, but its not to say another girl will".

The funny thing is, if you keep doing this with different women you find that #1 - they struggle to find an attractive men, even if their are a large amount of men around, and #2 - when they do point out one, they are all usually the same type (tall, hair, fasionable, good looking etc), which negates the whole "well blah blah these are ones I find attractive only"

Master1176 · 2017-01-25T15:25:58+00:00

Think of it this way: if you're gonna be born ugly, better to be an ugly man than an ugly woman. If you're an ugly man, at least you have a shot to make something of your life.

bigboymatthew · 2017-01-25T20:48:26+00:00

Men look at women. Women look at other women.

ozaku7 · 2017-01-25T15:39:43+00:00

So I made a fake account on OKCupid like 46 hours ago. Chose some random blond hottie for the profile picture and a profile full of bullcrap. I wasn't surprised by the amount of attention she got, but most of the attention was downright cheap and spineless. Stupid corny jokes that made me cringe, every second "Like" I made was a match (big surprise), tons of "Hello" and especially dudes that have no game at all. Oh, she's been called beautifull a ton of times too.

Like the previous RP fellow from 2 days ago who posted about his field report of online dating, he was completely right. Like him, I lost the respect to men on OKCupid, and I wouldn't date a single of them if I were Linn, unless I was a fucking whore who was thirsty for any dick. But I could just feel my male pussy dry up and crack apart to dust. One seemed decent, but he had to fuck it up by "hoping Linn is doing alright, hoping she's not bothering her and being sorry for not calling her by her name since she didn't have any in her profile". if I were Linn, this hot Scandinavian blonde model, I would have a hard time getting fucked on OkCupid, seriously.

Spineless, unoriginal and cliche bullcrap, fucking boring. I'm even pissed I did it, and I'm fucking ashamed that these guys call themselves "Men". That's why 80 out of 100 men are simply not noticed. Because they SUCK.

400 likes, 450 profile visits, 160 messages within 48 hours. Only one guy made me laugh and would make a decent chance of atleast a date if I were this Linn I made up, but I simply lost him between all those 160 guys that messaged me and just stopped bothering spending any more time to find him. It's pathetic. Women are not to blame for their shit, it's the betas. I, as a man, catfished entire Orlano with a norwegian model, and I lost respect to most of the man after just 20 messages, got downright annoyed after number 80. I was done after 120... I'd rather be a single virgin instead of fucking one of them. Even a blonde would have a hard time fucking these guys because 80 out of 20 would definitely chicken out or just killed the mood so much that it would be nothing but self-rape.

helgisson · 2017-01-25T12:27:01+00:00

Depressing? Why? Most guys will not put in the effort to improve themselves. Simply by lifting, dressing well, and practicing game you're aleady doing more than a lot of guys ever will.

Archwinger · 2017-01-25T18:56:09+00:00

There are two factors in play.

First, most men are not picky. Many men will fuck a 4 or 5, especially if they don't have to put in much effort. So a reasonably attractive man will hit up a dating site and message every single girl there that's a 4 or higher, and just see what he gets.

Second, women now use the internet to streamline the dating process. It's not that an average man is terrible to her. It's just that she got 100 messages today, so she only needs to respond to the top 10 to get laid tonight. The other 90 don't get a reply.

Fast forward a few years, and women who are a 5 or 6 at best are used to sitting back and getting messages from reasonably attractive guys with absolutely zero effort. If you show them 100 online dating profiles and ask them "which of these guys would you end up meeting and fucking", their honest answer is going to be the best 10 of them. Because it's just that easy. It's not that the rest of the men suck that much. It's that an average guy is a goldfish in the shark pond. He's so tiny, the sharks don't even bother eating him. No time with all of the other fish around.

[deleted] · 2017-01-25T22:11:24+00:00

This is also a huge factor in why women say they are so oppressed. They don't see all of the low SMV men in crappy jobs that are 99% male, they only see that there are more male CEOs than female. You don't see them complaining about how there aren't as many women sanitation workers.

-rwsr-xr-x · 2017-01-26T02:11:18+00:00

OkCupid, Match and POF and Tinder are demonstrably fraudulent, each in their own way. They're also a owned by Match, along with about 40 other dating properties.

I've been personally tracking the fraud on Match this year in a monstrous spreadsheet and my analysis is shocking: over 90% of the total profiles for women in the US are fraudulent, and almost every single one is internally created by Match themselves.

They sometimes screw up and end up making public, profiles with the automation in the summary, or truncated profiles with range data not even exposed in the options when you create a profile or sign up as a new member.

Hundreds and hundreds of "new" profiles show up all within about the same 60 minute span every morning, across the US. If you do the math, it's physically impossible for even a team of people working together to create profiles that fast, even with scripts. And who is paying them? Occams Razor wins out here. Also, you'll see profiles get created as new, then get reported, go dark, and days later, under the same unique UID, show up somewhere else in the US as "new" in that state, with a new name, new age, writeup and other data. These aren't values a user can change on the front end, only on the back end.

They also lock these profiles so you can't find them with a keyword or username search, while a test profile you create with the same exact username ans content, does show up in the search.

So much more, but I've personally reported over 6500 fake profiles in the last 3 months alone, and they do nothing to stop it. In fact, the faster I report them, the higher the number of fake profiles show up the very next day. Anywhere from 600-900 fake profiles show up every single day.

OkCupid will send fake likes and views using your profile to encourage others to click around into your profile and elsewhere on the site. I've left my profile dormant for 2 months, then I go back and log in and see that suddenly I have dozens of "Favorites" for profiles I've never even visited, and way outside my area. My password is 42 characters, completely random and complex, so it's not that someone is using my profile. Also, you can't favorite someone unless you've actually visited their profile. All of these fake favorites are for profiles that have never been visited by me, not even once.

POF has a similar scam going, which I've caught and proven dozens of times. In fact, they recently removed a linked feature of their site that makes this easy to prove, but the script is still there, just no longer linked from any page.

Googles fraud investigation department was notified of all of the fraudulent email accounts Match was using (38, across 6500 take profiles), and the FTC was notified of every infraction and fraudulent profile reported on all three sites.

Don't ever give any of these a single dime, it's just wasting your money.

Five_Decades · 2017-01-25T16:25:31+00:00

It's really not even the top 20%, it is more the top 5% of men.

But statistically, 80-95% of men cannot be in the top 5-20%. If you could push a button and make every man athletic and fit, women would just pick the top 5-20% of those men. Women select men who are superior to other men regarding smv.

For most men, being in the top echelons of smv is not realistic. For them going mgtow or hoping they find a decent woman in their league who hasn't been corrupted by modern dating culture is their only hope.

Gambarim · 2017-01-25T14:08:05+00:00

What do the best male profiles look like for reference?

penguin_brigade · 2017-01-25T15:27:34+00:00

This isn't that surprising and it speaks to the nature of men and women. It's why nearly every woman has a guy (fwb, bf, husband) and usually only one, whereas way more men have zero and can go months without having sex while other men keep multiple women around. Me personally I really prefer it this way, but I may be in the minority.

Unnormally · 2017-01-25T14:32:34+00:00

Can confirm. My experience with OkCupid was pretty awful. I'd like to think I'm a 5-6/10. I'm a thin, geeky build, but far from ugly. And I have a decent occupation, etc, etc.

Send out dozens of carefully hand-crafted messages to prospective dates, commenting on the things I liked about their profile, and what things I felt we had in common, or what I would like to discuss. I got ONE reply. The others don't even bother rejecting me. I just get ignored. Let alone I never got any messages from women looking to talk to me. Totally a woman's market.

That one reply, she seemed ok, we went on a date. She was a bit on the fat side. Probably at least 50 pounds heavier than me. (I mean, I'm 150-ish). She just wasn't all that interesting. Little motivation, and all that. I'd have rated her a 4 maybe. Her personality could have been far worse, I'll give her that.

poopcasso · 2017-01-25T13:48:54+00:00

I don't see any problems here. This uneven balance is almost only existent on online dating.

These online bitches are literal whores. Good for fucking, that's it. And the top 20% physically attractive men that gets to fuck them knows this. These men ain't gonna settle with a tinder whore. So the whores end up staying on tinder forever until they settle for a beta bux. Which they both rightly deserve. We lose nothing here. In fact, I'd argue we gain something, as all the whores have outed themselves.
Charisma and genuine confidence is big part of attraction irl. If you're a leader, both men and women will sense it. These traits don't show up online, where physical attractiveness is king. Irl, you only have to date down one level. And you can date up depending on your perceived smv.

everyone_wins · 2017-01-25T14:46:01+00:00

It goes the other way too though. I barely notice women who aren't attractive.

[deleted] · 2017-01-25T17:03:22+00:00

80% of men celebrate getting laid like they've just won the World Cup.

20% couldn't give a fuck because it's just another game.

empatheticapathetic · 2017-01-25T18:17:36+00:00

I'm not sure if I've read too many of these threads but I just can't see how to succeed anymore. I see plenty of couples out there where the guy isn't top 20%, might be shorter than me or something but this guy has somehow got a plate/gf/something and I just don't get it when I read studies like this.

I believe it definitely. The girl that brought me here was a 5 and she couldn't have ditched me fast enough to get a taste of chads dick in a bathroom stall for 5 seconds. I've been reading for 1.5 years and just don't even know where to begin with trying with women. I don't expect to win or it to go well so what's the fucking point when everyone else is more attractive than me, or has something better than me.

ArkAngelEV · 2017-01-25T18:33:44+00:00

Don't place all the blame on the pill. Those innate desires and tendencies have been there since MITOCHONDRIAL FUCKING EVE. All contraception has done is unleash and accelerated their true nature. Nothing more

spikeybumpy · 2017-01-25T21:07:16+00:00

Men are already at a loss the moment they package themselves into a box of statistics (job, body type, education etc.) and put that box to market on a counter next to hundreds of other, fairly similar, boxes.

Atticus_Crowley · 2017-01-25T21:25:02+00:00

I brought this story up to a female friend of mine and she agreed with the results. She then also pulled up her OKC and showed me the profiles of the kind of dudes out there, and after seeing that, I don't so much think that the 80-20 thing is pure hypergamy, but in fact...just the ratio of men with some semblance of social skills. Profiles for dudes are bad. Just bad.

scottishredpill · 2017-01-25T13:31:37+00:00

I'm confused why you would even add her on Facebook, or your full name. Da fuk?

RealMcGonzo · 2017-01-25T21:32:45+00:00

I know this chick, she must weigh fucking 500 pounds. And this Indian (red dot, not feather) was hitting on her. In shape (or thin, anyway), had a decent job, wore normal clothes, pretty americanizied, some money, pretty symmetrical. Worked in the same industry (education). And this fat broad totally blew him off. I mean, this chick is a stone cold zero - she should have been thanking her lucky fucking stars that anything with a dick was interested. But oh no, she's gotta turn him down. Felt sorry for the guy - JFC turned down by the very lowest scrapings of bottom of the barrel. Yuck.

[deleted] · 2017-01-25T23:49:36+00:00

I doubts it's still 80/20. Nowadays it's probably more like 5-10% of men will get attention and the rest are just in the background.

IGoYouStayTwoAutumns · 2017-01-26T01:08:12+00:00

I think the key takeaway from the article is to look at that graph, and look to the very right of the X-axis, where you see the top notch guys (the fifth line, OKC uses a 1-5 star ranking system for all profiles).

Note that, at the top ranking, the 5-Star guys, they account for 4% of OKC's male profiles.

Now consider this: the 80 / 20 principle (often talked about on here) applies TO ITSELF as well. So yes, 20% of the men are having sex with 80% of the women. But then, on top of that:

4% of the men (20% of 20%) are having sex with 64% of the women (80% of 80%).

Isn't it wonderful when the numbers line up so beautifully?

I think it's important for men to self-improve, absolutely. Get to the gym, lift. Dress better. Educate yourself. Practice a little game if it pleases you.

But gents, seriously, if you think you're gonna hit the gym for a few months, buy a new outfit, then roll on out and start banging 9s, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you... Again, LOOK AT THOSE NUMBERS. Unless you are in the VERY top few percentage points of ALL men within, say, a 20-minute drive, forget it, you're out. It ain't gonna happen. That's not to say it's totally hopeless, and you won't get laid ever, but I really do think people on this sub need to open their eyes a bit, with regard to how ruthlessly efficient and optimized the sexual marketplace has now become (for women). Particularly with regard to online and mobile dating. If you're not at the very, very top, it's going to become increasingly harder (if not impossible) to get anything at all (and I say this as someone who does pretty well in one of the toughest SMPs in North America, LA.)

One of my best friends is a beautiful stripper (worthy of her own post, surely, nothing will Red Pill you faster than having a stripper / escort for a bestie), we were hanging out recently, and I mentioned how, if given the choice, a hot guy (a 9) would rather hook up with a 7 girl that's available RIGHT NOW as opposed to gaming a 9 girl for weeks on end (and who, let's face it, might not pan out at any rate). My friend was totally shocked when I said this. Like, to her, WHY on earth would you take a 7 when you could possibly have the 9 at a later date? I told her Look, for men, it's all about convenience, the sure bet. Particularly when you get older. If a bunch of women present themselves to a guy, he's going with the first available one (within limits, after you get down to the 6s it's like Eh, why bother). But yeah, a guy will always take the easier thing, absolutely.

But to her, she just couldn't wrap her head around it: like, why would you NOT hook up THE BEST POSSIBLE OPTION if given the chance? Because for her, THAT'S ALL SHE KNOWS. Anything below a 9 DOESN'T EXIST. Guys who are 8s and below, they're like furniture to her. Like a table lamp. They just aren't a part of her reality. And what's really fascinating is how finely tuned the hypergamy radar becomes. Example:

A 9.5 guy says "Let's hook up right now." A 9.6 guy says "I'm busy, let's hook up in 3 days." In this situation (where she can only pick one, let's say they're best friends), the girl will opt for the 9.6.

She'd rather be the 2nd, 3rd, 5th, even 10th choice of the 9.6, than the FIRST choice of the 9.5. (I'm not even kidding here, I've seen this play out with her, in person, many many times.)

THAT, my friends, is how ridiculously efficient the SMP is these days. Roosh had a post once about how, in the future, the only guys who will get laid are the one that 1) do steroids, 2) are mini-celebrities, and 3) spend their lives spam approaching. I think we're coming up on that day sooner than any of us would like to think.

But yeah, enough of this "Top 20%" nonsense. It's not enough guys. Top 4% or better, and really it's more about the Top 2% if you really wanna get going.

[deleted] · 2017-01-26T02:58:27+00:00

Fuck online. You are better picking up woman on the streets. Girl stares for to long just cold approach. I promise rejections are much less.

Bandos15 · 2017-01-25T11:59:34+00:00

I believe getting into that 20% is possible at the moment. With more men waking up to the 80/20 rule I fear it will get very hard soon.

[deleted] · 2017-01-25T17:08:38+00:00

The 'plenty more fish in the sea' idea only applies to the top 20%.

Unless you harpoon a whale and even she won't be hooked for long.

Downvotesohoy · 2017-01-25T21:55:18+00:00

Yup. I'm an above average looking guy. But can't for the life of me get matched with even average looking girls on Tinder. There's a lot of parts about TRP I disagree with, but this is factual down to the core. If you keep yourself in shape, have clean skin, are well groomed, and have straight teeth, you can't expect the females you match with to process any of these positive traits themselves.

If you're a 7 you'll be very very lucky if you get matched with a 6. Even more lucky if she actually responds to you.

gotyournumberm8 · 2017-01-25T16:38:44+00:00

Top comment is true but bitchy as fuck. Accept reality and take action. We all know women are empty and moronic. Have you actually seen most mens profiles online and their icebreaker messages though? They look like they were made in 5 minutes from a horny idiot with no long term strategy. Decide exactly what you want, build an online persona and at least the image of an exciting life. If you're going to do something, go deeply into it. Then you'll reap the rewards. Concentrate your Forces as Robert Greene says.

PetililPuff · 2017-01-25T18:42:22+00:00

I don't actually think physical appearance / body is necessarily the key component. I think natural, true attraction is actually very chemical. A woman with a natural hormonal rhythm/cycle (not on birth control), is of course, going to be attracted to men who are good reproductive partners for her.. As in, her level of attraction is going to be based on the man's hormones and genes rather than his visual appearance. Granted, some physical traits of men go hand in hand with good hormonal & reproductive genes (like a strong jawline). But like, having say a 6-pack doesn't. Even men that are less fertile can achieve that. Likewise, high intelligence doesn't always go hand in hand with fertility. But very low intelligence can be chemical/genetic, so intelligence would factor in to some extent.

So in a natural environment, women and men will both be attracted to the most fertile / or best reproductive mates for their individual genes. Because genetic compatibility is also a factor... Just because a man and woman are both very fertile doesn't doesn't mean that they are genetically compatible for reproducing the healthiest children.

Of course, we're really screwing with nature in so many ways. Unhealthy diets messing with hormones, birth control, online dating (because you can't experience a chemical attraction over the internet), purposefully seeking out partners based on material possessions rather than chemical attraction, plastic surgery (visual appearance not matching DNA/genetics), possibly even heavy use of makeup, etc.

In a perfect world without these factors, I think monogamy would make absolute sense. Because reproductive success is far more individual than the whole "10% of men are the best partners for all women" (or vice versa)... It's more like... Every individual man/woman is only compatible with a small portion of the population. And the people included in that portion are going to be different for every individual.

aanarchist · 2017-01-25T22:56:32+00:00

i'm seeing someone atm who's got an orbiter who is literally a foot taller than me, more aggressive, more athletic, more rich, the list goes on. i'm the better man because i live on a higher level of consciousness, and am more pleasant to be around and get her excited spending time with me, good conversation etc. being a "20% man" isn't something you quantify with numbers, it's simply accepting the responsibility that comes with the freedom to make your own decisions. most people on here are still slaves and always will be because it's the red pill reddit bandwagon now making their decisions for them, instead of the blue pill. make your own decisions, do what you think is right, do what makes you happy.

Havikz · 2017-01-25T23:35:27+00:00

Feminists talk about unrealistic standards of women, when in reality it's women who have unrealistic standards of men and require them to spend 4 hours a day lifting iron yet also somehow have a solid job. To be even worth considering a man has to sacrifice so much to even get an eye glance, when the average woman who barely tries is still regarded to as attractive.

veritableill · 2017-01-26T15:33:18+00:00

There are so many paradoxes in this 'manosphere'. I'm not 20% material, so until i'm 20% then fuck the rest? Be stoic, talking too much is effeminate, but you need to have game and control the narrative. There's an old stereotype about writters being depressed, so therefore is everything i'm reading on here some depressed persons writings? Don't be a workhorse, make a lot of money though. I'll add this to the countless meditations and contradictions of this fucked up world, or whatever. Talking about bullshit celebrities and media, and basically all forms of escapism make me HAPPY. So why try so hard to be a contrarian if this place preaches IDGAF. All women are hypergamous, so are men. I make decisions based on feelings. I have anger issues and am not in control of my emotions at all times, and in general people make decisions based on feelings. Hence the business dinner, where your belly is full and you're more apt to make courageous decisions, ad the wine of course. But these are all rational, testosterone laden men who know what they want and use this aggression for good. Be antisocial its attractive, be popular it makes more money, creativity is the art of making money. I'm so tired of this place, I get it, lift, tell lies, be machiavellian, read robert greenes laws of power. Next? Everytime I read this statistic its just like "ok so find somewhere where you are the 20%", so like an island? Thailand maybe?

Entropy-7 · 2017-01-25T22:44:27+00:00

Stop complaining and do something about it.

I am no prize: I say that I am a 6 who presents as a 7 and can score 8s from time to time.

But really, game up gents. OKCupid has been my go-to place for decades. If you are not getting laid, you are doing something wrong. I live in China now so my last half dozen GFs are here, but before that. . . .living in motherfucking Toronto (the complete asshole of the dating world) I could still do ok.

Women want to have sex, women want boyfriends.

ONE TIME OFFER: If you are in Toronto and aren't getting anything, I will personally coach you. I fly back to China Feb 17 and I am committed to this girl, so no funny business for me.

I am not a PUA or anything but I am fed up with you shitheads complaining.

WTF OP, if you are a 8.5 why are you not banging 9s?

Stand and deliver or let's get this show on the road.

The_Driver1979 · 2017-01-25T17:24:02+00:00

This is all true but for a lot of people all the lifting in the world won't make a bit of difference.

Katayani108 · 2017-01-25T20:22:38+00:00

Just understand that average women are invisible too. Recently a co-worker told me he rejected a girl because she had one single hair on her nipple. Can you imagine as a man, being rejected because of a hair? He said she would have been a 10 if not for that. I simply told him his story spoke more of him than it did of her.

Cunt_Robber · 2017-01-25T19:29:26+00:00

I wonder... Is the root of hypergamy the birth control pill?

Before its implementation, women were naturally restricted in their sexual escapades, not to mention further stigmatized by society. I'm not saying "hey let's go back 100 years cause things were better then" but I also suspect that with the advent of birth control for women the floodgates opened.

RandomActsThrow7 · 2017-01-25T20:44:32+00:00

As an aside, I only just noticed how biased that OKCupid article was written. Despite the ridiculous implications for women, the writer continues to denigrate the male results of the study and downplay the female results. Some examples:

When it comes down to actually choosing targets, men choose the modelesque.

This statement comes after the writer shows that men are incredibly fair when determining attractiveness. It comes out to almost a perfect bell-curve, but while males are great at fairly determining attractiveness, they message 4/5's most often. I mean, of course. People are more inclined to pursue someone they are more attracted to than ones they are just moderately attracted to. Instead of being understanding, the writer calls this "male pattern madness".

We should expect the same treatment for the women, especially since they have shown they are far worse than men and just awful in generally at fairly determining attractiveness, right?

As you can see from the gray line, women rate an incredible 80% of guys as worse-looking than medium. Very harsh. On the other hand, when it comes to actual messaging, women shift their expectations only just slightly ahead of the curve, which is a healthier pattern than guys’ pursuing the all-but-unattainable.

Are you kidding, here? Calling women harsh is not even a denouncement, and then he praises women because they message a little less harshly than their own incredibly harsh determinance of attractiveness in males. Then comes the worst thing, in my eyes. He presents the chart of messages to men and women according to their attractiveness, and the hottest women get ~26x the messages the lowest rated women do. The hottest men get ~11x the messages the lowest rated men do. This is what the writer has to say:

This graph also dramatically illustrates just how much more important a woman’s looks are than a guy’s.

NO IT FUCKING DOESN'T. These are absolute numbers, not averaged, thus the writer is comparing absolute numbers. Men message massively more often than women. So if the site is 50% men and 50% women, and men send 10/100 messages to the hottest women and women send 1/10 messages to the hottest men, that obviously doesn't mean looks are 10x more important to men than to women, because the percentages are the same.

The raw data is great, but the conclusions the writer draws are bullshit and he should be ashamed.

chadjugo · 2017-01-25T23:41:09+00:00

"To women, you're either the shit or you don't exist"

blackedoutfast · 2017-01-25T23:46:36+00:00

you need to honestly evaluate your strengths and weaknesses and then focus on the environment that allows you to advertise and emphasize the strongest components of your smv.

if you are in the top % in terms of appearance, then yeah tinder/bumble/okcupud can be great. but it's honestly probably not even worth the minimal effort for an average looking guy because you're going to end up with the fugly landwhale scraps.

if you're not super hot but you're popular and outgoing, focus more on social circle game. social proof and preselection counts for a lot. become the clear alpha in a fun, high smv clique and girls will see that.

if you're more of a loner but very charismatic, try daygame. most of the girls on tinder have met up with plenty of hot chads who turned out to be lame and boring. girls that would have left swiped your picture are much more willing to give you a shot in real life (assuming you're not weird and awkward)

if you're ugly, no friends, and no game then forget about girls for a while and focus on lifting and reading the sidebar

[deleted] · 2017-01-26T00:15:01+00:00

Look at how much more women love their kids than their husbands. So much more that is is like dividing by zero (isn't a reasonable question). They also live vicariously through their children.

It's no wonder they want to raise a baby with the best genes possible and will cheat or be pumped and dumped to do so (small sacrifice for their baby and themselves).

Entropy-7 · 2017-01-26T00:57:43+00:00

I am no chad. Get in their face and display some skill.

[deleted] · 2017-01-26T01:34:00+00:00

Everyone should absolutely lift, but you don't need to look good or be rich to get laid with 9's and 10's

billsmashole · 2017-01-26T02:23:22+00:00

I think this is true of women too. But maybe to a lesser degree. If a woman is overweight or just terrible looking, they are invisible. Also if they are too old. So maybe it's more like 50/50 for them or 40/60.

constellationofsuns · 2017-01-26T06:51:10+00:00

Correlation does not imply causation (more research is needed). Plus this study has some bias and could be interpreted in many different ways.

RenoiDeter92i · 2017-01-26T08:55:58+00:00

"She then proceeded to spread rumors about me to people at my gym, telling them I was gay and that she'd heard I had a small dick." lmao

TALzFGxawb · 2017-01-26T16:49:55+00:00

i remember years ago looking at okcupid and thinking the people on there were hot. like, nearly half were physically hot enough. probably around 20% after considering their profile. the mindset was "i'd fuck them. does their personality match enough that i have a chance?"

now i'm at the point where if my FWBs all get boyfriends or something, i know that i can find new ones. and if i look at okcupid now, maybe 1% are physically attractive to me, and it actually goes up (to like 2%) if i read their profile. the mindset is "are they hot+fun+interesting enough for me to spend time on?"

most women are in a state like that. they already have guys fucking them, so they're coming from abundance, and won't accept the dregs that are 90+% of people on okc. guys on okc are mostly not getting laid, so anything is better than nothing

TL;DR: your graph will look more like the woman's if you're getting laid (or can easily). abundance mentality

[deleted] · 2017-01-26T16:55:15+00:00

I actually don't disagree with the women.

Men seem to want to date a supermodel, and let their own fat ass just do what it's gonna do. Get in shape. Take care in what you eat, and put down the damn Xbox controller. If, however, you are content with a 5 girl, and you are a 5 as well, then game on!

I lean toward 8-9 women, as the 10 is simple too much into herself. The 8-9 has a chance to be willing to give some. I am the same way. I am a solid 8, 9 in Alabama, prob a 6 in Los Angeles or New York. I'm not just talking looks, but I don't earn as much money as I should be, because I need some flexability at work and can't be completely consumed by the day job. That's my rules, and that's how I set my life up, so I tend to live modestly as a result.

Dating online is shit. My experience with tinder is great evidence. Women are on a "hook-up" app, and will clearly state "not looking for a hook-up". EYE ROLL.

If they don't state this, I swipe right. When I actually meet them, it's a rare woman who doesn't then start to fall in love with a brotha, and I have to remind them that, hey, we met on Tinder. What do you expect?

schmolch · 2017-01-25T19:21:59+00:00

I hate to defend them bitches, but if you observe men and women at a beach, lake or swimming pool you will notice that most females look decent (or at least have a feminine physique) while 95% of men look like a gender-neutral disfigured sack of shit. If women cared as little about their looks as men these graphs would look the same.

clme · 2017-01-25T13:45:26+00:00

What's the motivation for the post? Is your ranking of 8 mostly due to genetics, or you were an ugly fat a while ago and you became an 8? If the latter, I understand the desire to give back to the community. If the former, however, what gives? A superiority complex?

bowie747 · 2017-01-25T21:23:02+00:00

Decent post OP. This information has been spouted repeatedly here but it was probably time for a review. And you did a good job laying it all out. Except where are the fucking graphs man?!

Also I'd like to point out that, while men are primarily attracted to a woman's appearance, women are primarily attracted to a man's presence (frame, game, confidence etc). With his appearance taking a close second. Dating sites like OKC cannot capture a man's presence, therefore women only perceive the most physically attractive men as viable partners. Men have effectively given up their best weapon in online dating.

Edit: I would additionally like to point out that 80/20 is natural. If you look at other higher mammals and primates you will see that only the top males reproduce. The only reason we think otherwise is because society has created rules that pair off men and women 1:1 because it creates stability (all men are happy). We're merely reverting to how nature intended it. This is why men are so naturally competitive, because only the strongest get to fuck honeys. So don't complain about hypergamy or chicks bring whores, this nature. Adapt or die.

thisornothing · 2017-01-25T16:22:00+00:00

This works both ways - I barely notice unattractive women. And really, if you're attractive and interesting, none of this should bother you. If you look and act like an IT geek / computer janitor, then you've got some work ahead of you to fix the vibe you're giving off.

Don't let this upset or anger you, just use it as a motivation to improve yourself. Bitterness isn't attractive to anybody.

tino125 · 2017-01-25T19:44:54+00:00

Depressing? This is fucking awesome. Get yourself in the top 20% (or better, top 5%). Have life on easy mode. Its that fucking simple!

mancozbi · 2017-01-25T17:29:06+00:00

It's not just the liberation of women and the contraceptive pill that caused this. It's also the welfare state. In the western world a woman doesn't need to marry a wealthy provider to be sure that her children will thrive and even survive. The state provides health, education and security without the need to be wealthy. (You see this slightly less in the USA, there you need a job to get health insurance, good education costs money etc.)
Muscles are not the total key to female sexual attraction. Women are attracted to men with any of the following attributes: good looks, assertiveness, a very good education, an impressive profession, proficiency at something artsy. The list is long, very subjective and culturally biased. Just saying that lifting is not everything.

wohlstand · Wed Jan 25 17:32:19 2017 UTC

Your lifting theory seems flawed too because wha about for example this guy?

http://imgur.com/bNhqG7Z

And one of his exes (Heidi Klum) also was together with some pretty "built" guys.

jocomoco · 2017-01-25T18:58:19+00:00

I would say that it is 99% vs 1%.

The real game is that you can differentiate yourself in the 99%.

The 99% is all the same, its a flat distirubution. The top of the 99% is almost as good as the bottom. Most women don't get the 1% so the real game is to be different from the 99% by other means than attractiveness.

zephyrprime · 2017-01-25T19:53:20+00:00

Women have always been hypergamous but the pill really unchained their hypergamy

creepyThrowawayP · 2017-01-25T20:27:26+00:00

Just wait 10 years from now it's going to change from "80% of men are invisible to women" to "where have all the good men gone?".

lolligagger3000 · 2017-01-25T21:40:50+00:00

I'm not really into online dating so let me ask a question:

Do you have the ability to at least show some frame?

Because if not you'd have to be 100% looks and that's an easy way to lose against chads

BlxckTxpes · 2017-01-25T22:42:05+00:00

And this is exactly why when I was on dating sites, I don't pay for "full features" because it's a waste of fucking money. And chances don't raise of me finding someone.

helpwithhalloween · 2017-01-25T23:42:48+00:00

But the article states that women still messaged equally, with women messaging average men at the highest rate. Men still only messaged the most attractive women...?

SpaceViolet · 2017-01-26T00:55:35+00:00

to mate with the strongest, most tingle-inducing alpha males

Some good writing here among the wokeness

user1312421 · 2017-01-26T02:00:25+00:00

I don't think your interpretation of the data provided is solid. I'll explain below

the way women rate male attractiveness implies that 80% of men are unsatisfactory to the female users of this site

This is based on the ratings of attractiveness. When looking at the distribution of messages initiated by women, it falls just ahead of the bell curve (much more reasonable than the comparable distribution for men). In terms of being satisfactory, I would think that who you're willing to go out of your way to message is a decent indicator of who is satisfactory to you.

I experience this phenomenon first hand constantly as I'm sure many of you guys do as well. Objectively ugly women approach me from a place of entitlement

Your experiences with this, while I'm sure are genuine, are not what the data in this blog post is suggesting would happen. On the contrary, when looking at response rates of attractive men messaging unattractive women, it appears the women are actually a lot less receptive than if an average man had messaged them. This is almost the exact opposite of what you are describing.

It's total unchained hypergamy and the result is women following their biological imperative to mate with the strongest, most tingle-inducing alpha males they can find

In the graphs showing messages received as a function of attractiveness for both men and women, it actually looks like us men are following this type of 'seek out the alphas' mentality a lot more than women. For women, the most attractive among them receive almost all the attention, wheres the least attractive receive next to nothing.

If you're going to use an article online as evidence for something, make sure you actually read and understand what the article is saying

mickey__ · 2017-01-26T21:27:12+00:00

One question- why don't you show your face so we could know what 8.5 look like?

[deleted] · 2017-01-27T05:50:39+00:00

A million sperm. A few eggs.

Betterthanuatlife · 2017-01-27T06:47:01+00:00

Why repost something that has been proven and spouted on here a thousand times before? Yeah hypergamy exist, so fucking what?

thederpill · 2017-01-27T15:51:46+00:00

Dumbest thing you ever heard wow. So I take it you are amazing in bed well done.

That aside, I'm 40 and prefer to fuck women who love to fuck and come easy from vaginal sex.

I have had women who take too long to 'warm up'. Just not a fan of going down on a woman for an hour.

MeisterMGTOW · 2017-01-28T10:59:52+00:00

I'm mgtow. I don't give a shit.

ser0402 · 2017-02-01T09:53:36+00:00

I think it's hilarious that the go to hail mary insults for rejected/pissed/otherwise annoyed women (in my experiences and this post) seem to be along the lines of "haha you're gay" or "you have a small dick", like those two things are inherently bad (small dick may be unfortunate depending on how small and if you can use it right, but it's not a bad thing). And both are things you have no choice in.

Anything to try and demasculate and humiliate you in front of others I guess.

sectandmew · 2017-02-03T02:53:22+00:00

Is there a way to get an honest rating of hot how you are?

exit_sandman · 2017-01-25T14:10:14+00:00

While relevant, that topic is old news by now.

takkun22 · 2017-01-25T18:41:09+00:00

ok, while this is true, you didn't really acknowledge the crux of article, which was that looks actually matter much less to women than they do to men

Title	OkCupid's Depressing Confirmation of the 80/20 Rule - The Majority of Men are Invisible to Women
Author	diomedes777
Upvotes	704
Comments	296
Date	25 January 2017 11:32 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	TheRedPill
Link	https://theredarchive.com/post/40346
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/5q2p3q/okcupids_depressing_confirmation_of_the_8020_rule/

OkCupid's Depressing Confirmation of the 80/20 Rule - The Majority of Men are Invisible to Women

How To Get Out Of Intermediate Purgatory (So You Can Start Dating Beautiful Women)

The official "an incel murdered somebody" thread for onlookers, bystanders & media suit types (ignore this and publish a story saying we are just like them for that sweet adrev)

MGTOW article on Sunday times

Race to the Top 2: Electric Boogaloo (The Red Pill Guide for Minorities)

Race to the Top 2: Electric Boogaloo (The Red Pill Guide for Minorities)