RM: "...women’s sense of self-worth has been grossly overblown.." "An abundance of male attention contributes to a sense of security for women’s SMV. "

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February 20, 2017

It’s funny how Blue Pill (and a few Red Pill) critics will foster the idea that the only reason men learn Game is because they’re “validation seeking“, but yet they resist the idea that women’s egos would be similarly validated by the “incredible amount of male attention” they believe even the most mundane of women is capable of generating.

However, the OP is asking the wrong question. Women’s egos are not inflated by the value of men’s attention, but rather the perception of an unending abundance of prospective men. An abundance of male attention contributes to a sense of security for women’s SMV. A lot gets made about the influence of “thirsty” guys on women, but the only value they represent is a Buffer against women ever having any personal insight about their ego valuation. Thirsty guys only serve to convince a girl she has options and therefore leisure to demand a better-than-merited Hypergamous option (i.e. apex fallacy Alphas).

Read the full thing here:


Post Information
Title RM: "...women’s sense of self-worth has been grossly overblown.." "An abundance of male attention contributes to a sense of security for women’s SMV. "
Author redpillschool
Upvotes 542
Comments 113
Date 20 February 2017 04:09 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/41079
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/5v5cnc/rm_womens_sense_of_selfworth_has_been_grossly/
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Red Pill terms found in post:
thirstyalphaabundancehypergamysexual market valuegamethe red pill

[–]TunedtoPerfection121 points122 points  (9 children) | Copy

Women past 30 are a lost cause. They have been told well into adulthood that anything they even think is 100% right. That why I've stopped the "easy lays" of post wall women. The juice is not worth the squeeze.

As more men wake up or even just show women that they first idea that pops into their head isn't always 100% correct the dating landscape will start to change and we can start to go back to actually connecting with women as a whole. But that won't happen in my lifetime or any of yours. So we have to be strong and force that change. Luckily we have a reason to, it makes us that do it, attractive.

I've just started back up with a social media presence after ~5 years of completely ignoring it. Just going through some of the shit attractive females I know say online and how they are showered with this air of "your 100% right" scares me.

When you train a human, male or female, that they literally can't be wrong they live in a fantasy world.

One that stands out and still makes me laugh was a comment about that pretty famous picture that shows water in 3 of the 4 phases of matter. It's like a snowscape with a river running through it and you can see water vapor rising from the river. To me it's really an awe inspiring thing. Anyway there is some sappy inspirational quote relating to all the phase of matter and people are eating it up. Well some shitlord posted that the picture doesn't show water in plasma form there for it's only 3/4 phases so you can't correctly say all phases of matter. The girl who posted the picture and like 15 white knights jump on the dude saying hes an idiot, there only 3 phases of matter, go back to high school physics yadda yadda.

Turns out, the guy is a fucking astrophysicist, but he doesn't have tits, a vagina and good make up skills so apparently him and all of modern science is wrong. Honestly, Neil Degrasse Tyson wouldn't have been able to even put a though of doubt in these people's minds that this chick was just flat out wrong.

That's the problem, women past a certain age have never been taught to use their mind to look inward and see if they might be wrong. It's a little detail but it gets turned into this huge deal because 15 guys think by incorrectly defending her over the internet shes gonna show up at their door and offer them pussy.

In the end they all look like fucking idiots, I die a little inside and I chalk it up to another instance that finding, following, and contributing to this sub is probably the single best thing that I've ever done for the betterment of the world.

[–]godfatherchimp37 points38 points  (4 children) | Copy

That is exactly why social media is cancer

[–]TunedtoPerfection23 points24 points  (2 children) | Copy

I completely agree, it's a time sinking, cancerous place to hang out. I much rather be learning, improving, or building a skill I can fesiable turn into a scalable business model then scrollign through my "feed" looking at people still bitching about Trump and posting cat pictures.

Unfortunately that's how the world and people I chose to interact with plan meet ups and keep in touch. Since starting back up with it I've gotten quite a few invites from friends I have't connected with in a long time simply because this is how the world now plans events and stays connected, via facebook. I get it, it's easy simple, seemingly everyone does it. It's just all in how you chose to use it, and for me currently it's just one big connected social calendar.

I could go off on them and ask wtf they never just picked up the phone, but honestly it was just me being a douche and "fighting the man" for no reason. People as a whole, especially the younger generation and the more social connected people from my generation, utilize this as the way to connect it's not inherently bad or wrong, It's just different. I've been through pagers, Zack Morris cell phones, smart phones and now social media.

You just got pick your battles and utilize anything you can in this world to an advantage. I personally have no desire to "join the facebook crowd" and be on it 5 hours a day. But, if lightly maintaining a profile page helps grow my social circle, introduces me to young, attractive women and helpful men? I'll gladly do that.

If I can eventually turn it into an income stream or to boost one of my business ideas awesome. If it's just something I check once a day to see if there any events going on with friends, or connect with people that benefit me and offer value easily to them, that's all it is.

It becomes a trap if you let it trap you. If not it's an extremely powerful tool in the social landscape and honestly one that you can't life without unless your gonna MGTOW it up in the mountains for the rest of your life. I only wish I came to this conclusion sooner, but hindsight is 20/20.

[–]redpill-account0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Perfect way to view social media

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

The problem is that the physicist didn't engage troll mode and just posted a picture of a sun with some caption.

[–]funinsun104 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I die a little inside and I chalk it up to another instance that finding, following, and contributing to this sub is probably the single best thing that I've ever done for the betterment of the world... Keep up the good work

[–]tolerantman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Take screenshots, post them here.

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet68 points69 points  (3 children) | Copy

Women are unsophisticated creatures with small passions. They mistakenly equate sexual advances for relationship-worthiness, because in their untrained and undisciplined minds the lure of sex is all they should need to keep a man around. And because most modern men are sex-starved sycophants, women can almost get away with it.

This is why modern discourse on the subject of relationships is built on a handful of sex-positive, blame-free, easy-to-remember platitudes that give women ways to evade accusations of indiscretion, infidelity, and classlessness. Women have only one weapon, one bargaining chip, so they must fight tooth and nail to protect it.

A Red Pill man's counter to this is to rise above the need for sex by adopting a mentality of sexual abundance as he works towards creating an actual sexual abundance.

[–]ECTD16 points17 points  (2 children) | Copy

Now I fully understand what vanguard means here, thanks mate. Quality contribution.

[–]rp_newdawn5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

All the guys from the beginning are solid gold when they speak

[–][deleted] 282 points283 points  (28 children) | Copy

This is why a well crafted neg, one where you do not necessarily insult a girl, but reframe your interaction with her as one where she is the one who needs to qualify herself to you (and always assume this) is how you can flip this script. Do not compliment a girl. Instead assume that she is complimenting you. Do not make any comments about her except to recognize (even falsely) that she is making comments about you. Always work from the premise that everything she is saying and doing is to try to qualify herself to continue to be around you.

And if you're going to LTR up a girl avoid social media whores. I'll end with a funny story I've told on here before;

Years ago I had my main girl, who I met when she was 20 and I was 33, on the hook for over a year. I would never commit to her and she couldn't figure out why. Because so many other guys were trying to. In fact she had a fiance in an LDR the entire time we were together. One day she's very upset. Going off at me, "why won't you be my boyfriend?" and distraught. She had been seeing a therapist about this, literally.

Of course I never told her that, well, you have a fiance bitch. You're dumb as dog shit and your value to me comes almost exclusively from your youth. Your ego is completely out of control. I just said fun non-committal things and told her shit like, "shhh. Come dance with me" and off we went.

So she sits me down and shows me her Facebook. Where she would routinely post slutty pictures to attention whore. I don't have a Facebook and never will. She shows me all the likes she gets for her photos. I shit you not. And then she scrolls down to specific comments, that she had clearly been looking at, where betafags had asked her to marry them. In response to her attention whoring photos. She shows them to me and honestly somehow thought that this was somehow proof that I should upgrade her from plate status. Dumb as dog shit fellas just like I said.

[–]Derrun57 points58 points  (13 children) | Copy

My god that is hilarious. She sounds like a child :| These beta orbiters on social media are skewing the whole SMP, it's ridiculous when you meet a HB5 who thinks she's a 7, and it's partly cos of these guys!

[–]trapaik15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah even dudes getting friend zoned are doing the same thing fcking over the rest of us guys

[–]Dragon_Garoo13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy

I have an ex that is a heavy set 4. She can doll herself up and crop a facial photo to look 5'ish or 6'ish, and get 100 likes from betas ooh'ing and Awww'ing over her pics. It bothered me a bit in the aftermath of the relationship, but realized it's just this sort of affirmation she needs. They all need it. That's why they all do it. And she probably threw a few of those white knights/betas a bone, cuz she's a completely hypergamous slut with a sociopathic bent and sense of morality based on broken familial relationships. Needless to say, they all need that social confirmation, because deep down, they are all insecure.

[–]pijanimikula11 points12 points  (4 children) | Copy

I see this mentioned often, but the women getting the attention on social media are mostly insanely hot. 8 and above.

5's are not promoting themselves into 7s because they get the attention from random loosers. Even worse they are not getting attention from strangers but from orbiters, as every girl would have some poor soul dreaming of LTR with her.

Every woman has a bitch shield and you shouldn't jump to conclusions, they are more insecure because of social media.

The only truth attention whoring revealed is that men appreciate beauty above everything else, and that young hot and new is always better. The girls who look like supermodels are well aware of it they don't need validation. They are doing it for hypergamy and monetization.

[–]VPride199519 points20 points  (1 child) | Copy

You're really underestimating the power of lighting, angles, filters, and MAKEUP. I've seen things that made my jaw drop.

[–]pijanimikula5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

I am not. They all use it and everybody is avare of it. That makes it irrelevant. When you see a 6 on IG you know she is a 4 IRL.

[–]p3n1x2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

but the women getting the attention on social media are mostly insanely hot

Bullshit. Don't make the argument subjective because of "numbers". Betty with 6 orbiters can have the same ego as Bambi with 20,000 orbiters.

they are more insecure because of social media.

They are more insecure because of Each Other, period. Regardless of the presentation being over twitter or live at a cocktail party.

[–]pijanimikula1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

How can it be the same? 6 orbiters that are either friendzoned or labeled as creeps don't mean shit.

I agree with the second part and that was my point. Before social media actresses and models were worshipped. Now both men and women are aware how many options are available. That kind of makes it pointless because times had changed and none of them will be idolized like say Pamela Anderson was.

Gays and women can pick their random idols but men have seen the truth. It's a buyers market and all we have to do is work on ourselves and develop IDGF attitude.

[–]RedBikerMouse9 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy

I feel it's half correct, because while she enjoys the compliments and attention she's also aware of how unattractive they are.

It's like me being complimented for something by a landwhale. I'll enjoy the praise but she's still not fuckable.

[–]Buchloe3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

But imagine if those women were akai showering you with free gifts and money. Some of these girls get a lot out of their orbiters

[–]WASPandNOTsorry0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

But that's not true. Maybe on a public social media like FB. But she can make a tinder profile and get matched with men who are at least 7s even if she is only a 4. Men are shameless on Tinder. She will then confuse this with being attractive in general and voila. We've all seen decent and even good looking guys going out harpooning, maybe we've even done it ourselves. Men will never experience this and it fucking pisses us off that all women need is to exist and they will get fucked. Sorry. That's reality. Ugly women have an easier time to get laid than you ever will, you can hit the gym all you want.

[–]joh21416 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Some men are just pussies.

[–]PragmaticRedTruth points points [recovered] | Copy

I think it has to do with why social proof works so well on women. They bounce almost every decision they make off of society and its role in whatever she is trying to do.

She just doesn't understand men and women are completely different. Whereas women will base whether or not they sleep with a guy on his social proof... men, on the other hand, do not give two fucks.

[–][deleted] 68 points69 points  (1 child) | Copy

Have you ever noticed that if you try to get a girls number when she's with her friends, she immediately looks at each of them, trying to figure out what they think about it before making a decision?

[–]godfatherchimp22 points23 points  (4 children) | Copy

Dumb and solipsistic. Women think that men think like them, ie. that preselection makes men desire women more.

[–]p3n1x0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Beta men do the same thing....

[–]godfatherchimp7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

Exactly why betas aren't sexually attractive to women, because they act like women

[–]420KUSHBUSH2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

If one thing in this thread were undeniably true, it'd be this.

[–]Blacklabellogics10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

Her actions make perfect sense from the reliance of women on social proof. Everyone knows that a man who is surrounded by other women, married, engaged or otherwise in a relationship always gets more attention than a single guy. This comes down to the women accepting the "vetting" the other women have done of him, and therefore he must be a suitable match. So when the 20 year old here shows you all the beta males who want to marry her, and so on she is attempting to leverage this mechanic.

This is the same principle that lead men to send dick pics, performing acts of service, and supplicating to women, as this is what they want the woman to do to them. It's a perversion of the Golden Rule so to speak, where each gender approaches the sexual market place from their own frame.


[–]Lsegundo2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

you should have replied "see you don't need me to marry you that guy if going to do it!"

[–]amllx points points [recovered] | Copy

You come out looking pretty shitty in this story. Even if we believed you. Getting the better of someone 13 years younger is nothing to brag about. Acting like a 20 year old should be as mature or not be on facebook or not need some attention or whatever is pretty stupid. I'm guessing you are intimidated by woman your age who have their shit together and they are not interested in you. I doubt you will admit that to yourself, much less us

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

No I find the women my age to be miserable totally unfun cunts who think they are men. Don't worry though babe I've settled down with a super hawt feminine young lass who adds value to my life. Not you of course. Since you're doing everything wrong.

Don't say I don't care about you now.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 47 points48 points  (0 children) | Copy

"He is the architect of his own failings, but it seemed like she’d like him better if he took the Instagram shots of her at the time – the ones she would use to advertise her SMV to the Alphas who she knew were the only men worth taking a picture for." - Rollo


[–]Strum_Gewehr117 points118 points  (20 children) | Copy

A woman having no sense of her SMV will behave better than one who receives likes and comments and still has garbage SMV. Think before you like and comment their pics. I personally follow a no follow no subscribe policy towards women.

The only way to beat the narcissism out is to parade her in front of a woman with higher SMV. How do you put out an oilfire? Set off a bigger explosion next to it.

[–]SmilingWatermelon75 points76 points  (8 children) | Copy

She doesn't need to be prettier. Just pretty. I've had girls who were clearly hotter get jealous over lower smv girls. Just because I gave them more attention. The attention they get Is directly related to their self worth it seems. So they rationalize you giving the other girl more attention as her being prettier. Even if it clearly isn't so

[–][deleted] 49 points50 points  (5 children) | Copy

Women have no idea if they're hot or how hot they are unless people are consistently telling them they are and choosing them over other women. True story. That's why all this shit works so well. You're the only one who doesn't constantly validate her, and if you have other women, even decent ones (especially if she's just a story in her head) then she gets that anxious feeling and wants to jump on your peepee with vigor. If you never validate her and you say offhand to her about another woman "wow. Look at that girl, she's a doll." Watch her head explode.

[–]SexistFlyingPig38 points39 points  (0 children) | Copy

That's why, if you meet two girls for the first time, hit on the uglier one. The prettier one will doubt her own self-worth and work hard to get your attention.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy

Women have no idea if they're hot

I disagree. 9s and 10s KNOW they're hot. Just like you know you're hot if you are a 6 figure 6 feet 6 pack man.

However, context is everything when it comes to banging them. If she's a college freshman and doesn't know anyone, as a college senior you have a huge advantage due to your experience in college and social proof you've built over the years. And if there are more females than males, you can demonstrate abundance mentality to make sure she knows she's easily replaceable. But keep in mind that there's no abundance mentality without real abundance. If your college is a sausage fest, she will know that she has more options than you do.

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (0 children) | Copy

I guarantee though that 9 knows she's hot from validation mostly. That's my point. Problem is that 7s think they're 9s because they get an insane amount of attention. Women of every level of attractiveness want attention and validation constantly because deep down they're always insecure. They can in one breath think they're super hot but constantly doubt it. A man can know with no validation or against constant shit testing how he ranks once he's actually a man and has removed the BP indoctrination.

That's what I mean by that, yes they develop insane standards but it has little to do with their actual looks and everything to do with validation. Hints why they seek it. I think the difference in our views is mostly semantics.

[–]RedPillHanSolo1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You have no idea how you can be clueless even with 6 pack @ 6 feet.

[–]SonOfSparda3040 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

When I was a senior I had success with one freshman two nights in a row. The first night I met her at a bar, the second night I just picked words carefully in texts, then we never talked again and I was cool with that.

Same trick didn't work twice though. Never does for me. I go through long incel spells one of which was due to major beta behavior before I had heard of TRP. If I had TRP my freshman year, college as a whole would've gone so much differently and I wouldn't have wasted so much time (and probably gotten better grades).

[–]Strum_Gewehr7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

This wont always work. If for some reason you withhold attention her thinking becomes that you are not paying me the attention im entitled to. That will get her crazy but in no way destroy her superiority complex.

But when faced with a higher SMV girl her mind will tell her that she has absolutely no chance here. Load NiceGirl.exe

[–]RedBikerMouse5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

The attention they get Is directly related to their self worth it seems.

Oh my god, this is so much true. I knew a tomboy of a girl who was popular only because she'd mingle with the beta boys crowd and she'd tell me things like "me and my boyfriend went to a party and while most of the girls were pepped up and people were gathering around me instead, and I only wore jeans".

Holy shit.

[–]MrBellsprout12332 points33 points  (6 children) | Copy

I use to work in Alaska on research vessels. There was a couple from some bumb fuck town in northern Alaska. The guy, a fat, bald, ugly dude. I was told before I got on the boat he got arrested for trying to get in a fight with someone at a bar. Him and his wife had the same rank on the boat and made the same money.

His wife? A fucking gorgeous woman. I mean a solid 7/10. And very enjoyable and pleasant to be around. I'm from NYC to the first thing that popped up into my head. :

"In NYC, a girl like that would not give that fucking guy a chance in hell."

A girl that looked like that wouldn't even let that guy buy her a drink, not even talk to him.

There is wife material out there. You just have to go to the four corners of the earth to find them.

[–]funinsun1015 points16 points  (2 children) | Copy

I find the less population the more the women are swooped up... Maybe he lost his looks

[–]Cynewald16 points17 points  (1 child) | Copy

You'll find that in obese countries like America, all the skinny or healthy girls are snapped up/ taken already, or jealously pursued by dozens of men if they are single. When I was a soccer coach in Rochester NY, back in 2002, just about every thin woman was called for and had numerous options of thirsty men holing them up online. And there was hoards of single, hungry obese women. It was ridiculous. Even bat-faced, ugly witch-looking skinny women living in America can leverage their SMV and get a man of much higher genetic and social worth than herself.

Female Obesity is to blame for extreme male thirst and lowering of standards in both facial beauty and the personalities of thin / non-fat women.

When I visited Vietnam (where female obesity must be lower than 2% compared to USA's 40%), there was lots of single, unattached women In their 20's that weren't getting much attention from men at all. You plonk such Vietnamese women in a USA and watch them soon over-value their SMV simply coz they're the only 120lbs or fuckable female (over the age of about 12) in a 3 mile radius.

[–]godfatherchimp44 points45 points  (2 children) | Copy

Girlfriend material, yes. No woman is wife material.

[–]MrBellsprout1236 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

haha touche. Have an upvote.

[–]funinsun1011 points12 points  (1 child) | Copy

How do you put out an oilfire? Set off a bigger explosion next to it.... Classic

[–]_PM_ME_UR_FLAT_CHEST2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Fight fire with fire. That's what Gramps used to say

[–]PipBoyTInkerer points points [recovered] | Copy

Hell the only things I ever like on a go's Facebook is if it's a picture of us together or a comment where I'm mentioned. Any attention whore selfies and whatnot are ignored.

[–]TheDeadlyZebra5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

That sounds narcissistic and desperate. It's probably unhealthy for your game if you need to bring attention to self-promotion like that, but I'm no expert

[–]BigGreezy27066 points67 points  (2 children) | Copy

Instagram should be called Orbitgram.

[–]SonOfSparda3042 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

To this day people keep telling me to join it.

All of them females that already share every single instagram post on their facebook. I would delete the time sucking cesspool that is my facebook if it wasn't for event updates and stuff since a lot of acquaintances are "promoters".

[–]RedShock148 points49 points  (2 children) | Copy

So Alphas are people who know there is an abundance of everything except time?

[–]almagest20 points21 points  (0 children) | Copy

Exactly. You need to be the one determining what (and who) has enough value to fit into your limited time. If you're not already filling your day with valuable and enjoyable activities, spending time chasing 6s on Tinder can quickly become the only thing you get any enjoyment or illusion of value from.

Inactivity and boredom is a death sentence for you in so many ways. As long as you can deal with the stress of having a full day (sleep, meditation, exercise, eating well, etc), there's no excuse to sit around doing noting.

[–]rp_newdawn3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Whoa dude you stumbled upon a really concise wording of that. I'll be keeping that in my personal files, thanks man

[–]Snazzy_Serval37 points38 points  (2 children) | Copy

Some key takeaways that stood out to me.

The attention of random strangers offering sex to her (even if this is her imagined state) is still attention, and while not as validating as the genuine sexual interests of a guy she perceives as Alpha, it’s still contributing to her overall sense of self. The quantity of attention skews the perception of her own desirability. Women rarely complain about the attentions of ‘friend zoned’ Beta orbiters – even when they know these men are playing what they think is a worthwhile ‘long game’. What women bemoan is a lack of Alpha, Hypergamously acceptable, men’s attentions. What we hear are complaints of quality, not quantity.


The dearth of ‘marriageable’ men is both a reflection of men’s unwillingness to participate in their own indenturing and women’s unrealistic expectations of men prompted by an unrealistically exaggerated sense of personal worth.

So basically the average woman has a sense of self-worth that is completely blown out of perception that she believes that only an alpha male is good enough for her.

Of course the alpha males don't give a damn about lower tier women for anything other than a pump n' dump which may be enough for these women to be satisfied with.

So where does that leave the non-alpha males?

Game will always have its use, but game plus fame will be the qualities that tomorrow’s Casanova possess. Otherwise you’ll be approaching all day and night to fuck a 6 who stops calling you after a couple bangs. -Roosh V

Honestly it sounds a little hopeless.

[–]Sephar points points [recovered] | Copy

It's called natural selection. Nature is brutal, unfortunately.

[–]Snazzy_Serval9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

Natural selection, by Tinder and OK Cupid....

[–]PragmaticRedTruth points points [recovered] | Copy

That is it, the limitless options act a safety net to catch her fragile ego. It is not as if she ever needs to act on the validation she receives, rather these validators control the market she lives in.

Remove the beta validators, and the market shall tank.

[–]Flynn-Lives28 points29 points  (0 children) | Copy

Remove the beta validators, and the market would tank.

It's an ironic and sad truth.

[–]2kevin3218 points19 points  (2 children) | Copy

the limitless options act a safety net to catch her fragile ego...She won't necessarily touch the orbiters, rather keep them on a short leash.

This is a good analogy. Beta orbiters are like life-preserver rings. She gets thrown off the boat by Chad and frantically reaches out to her orbiters to rescue her sense of worth.

And this is why women post lots of selfies and cry on the shoulders of friendzoned guys when Chad pumps and dumps her. She's gauging her value in the SMP from a male perspective.

She's effectively saying, "The men that I really want don't want me. Please validate me because if you find me desirable, then it means I still have a chance with Chad and therefore more time to ride the carousel."

As more men wake up to the manipulation and stop with all the white-knighting, there will be fewer life-preservers in the water.

[–]PragmaticRedTruth points points [recovered] | Copy

The beta orbiters are so sacrificial. Yet, they stand there confused, waiting... "okay, I validated you, now can I get some pussy?"

And they're so confused they might even drop the line, "I didn't want to take advantage of her." Or some type of bullshit to make themselves feel even more heroic.

[–]mill581 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

They get confused by the bs that the blue pill said that works... we all here know that it doesn't work and that they don't know what they want or at least they don't want people to know what they really want.

[–]Snazzy_Serval7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

Remove the beta validators, and the market would tank

Unfortunately that is not the direction that society is going.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

Unfortunately? This polarization between BP and RP men only intensifies your value, should you choose to increase it. This is a blessing.

[–]1StoicCrane29 points30 points  (1 child) | Copy

Everyone wants to aim for the SMV top. Problem with women is that their value is so overblown that they expect to have the best without putting in the work.

[–]Five_Decades33 points34 points  (0 children) | Copy

The problem is smv follows a bell curve distribution, for every 1-5 men out of 100 who are elite smv, there are 20+ women whose egos have been inflated until they think they deserve an elite man. The math doesn't work, 20+ women can't share 1-5 men and still have monogamy or commitment and investment. It creates the situation we have now where elite men play the field, women feel like men refuse to commit (because elite men have no incentive to commit) and lots of regular men go mgtow.

[–]Porkcharsui8812 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy

Honestly, if makeup wasnt a thing - or only socially acceptable to use on very special occasions, They would be a little bit more balanced.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

Quality marriageable men realize that at any moment a woman will turn these validation vehicles into a search for a "perceived" better mate. Why would any man commit to that?

[–]epubliusrex points points [recovered] | Copy

The vast majority of women do not have limitless options. Maybe 5-10%. Just like the top 5-10% of males do. It's no big deal for a woman to get laid--that's always been a given. Their big issue is getting the guy they think they deserve to stick. Furthermore, the better looking she is--I mean really good looking, the fewer the number of men who have the balls to go after her.

Women have very frail egos. Very. They are all also highly passive aggressive. To get into their heads, you need to understand how to use this. The only time I compliment a woman is maybe on her dress--but only on how it reflects on me if I'm taking her out--" I like that you went to so much trouble for me" sort of thing. I'll also compliment her on her prowess in bed if she pleases me. If a woman who I don't know compliments me on my style or something, I'll tell her I think she has nice knee caps, if they're visible or else I like her ear lobes. Given their intense insecurity issues, she's going to wonder what I think of the rest of her, isn't she good enough? And I guarantee you no guy has ever remarked on her knee caps or ear lobes.

As far as FB goes, 2/3s of my friends are women. More than half of whom I've slept with at one time or another. The purpose is just because I'm nice. But also because whenever I post a pic, they all chime in in a delicious way. Potential women who see this (I've had women from match track me down) know I'm high value immediately. I have a harem.

[–]godfatherchimp13 points14 points  (1 child) | Copy

The only reason Facebook should ever be used - a tool to demonstrate SMV. Never comment, like, or post any text ever

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

It's the perception of limitless options that's at issue.

[–]epubliusrex points points [recovered] | Copy

Exactly. My "friends" list is made up of mostly women. That sends the implicit message I can have what I want. I also have the option of telling one of them I'm lonely and inviting them over to watch a movie. And, as I have a son, I get baby sitting when needed. I play their game against them.


[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

"Friends." Nice. For all that women say about men with kids, it has to turn them on. You've already continued your genealogy, what more could you demonstrate (aside from the usual TRP principles)?

[–]lolligagger30008 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

While I find this to be true and a very sad truth, I may also contribute by saying that the opposite also exists.

This highly depends on your logistics and chances are that neither you or men in general have seen it.

Some really rare women think their SMV is way lower than it really is. I'm talking about 6-10 women thinking they are the lower half at least. Personally I've only seen it once in a LTR and I'll probably never going to see it again but that also has it's cons too.

They'll will stop existing really soon.

[–]logicalthinker10 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I disagree. Unless someone is severely damaged mentally, they fucking know if they're desirable or not. They may lack the confidence to exploit any advantages they have but they know how they stack up to others.

[–]grass_cutter12 points13 points  (14 children) | Copy

I consider myself a very intelligent man yet I had difficulty trying to understand that - frankly - rather dense article. Too much abstraction on top of abstraction.

Do Western woman have inflated ideas of their own sexual market value? Probably in some regard, but that depends. There are separate markets for "worthy of a fuck" and "worthy of marriage" of course - why would these be considered the same market?

Also - yes, as OKCupid has proved, the typical woman sees the "average" man --- on looks alone -- as a 3/10. Isn't 5.5 the dead average of 1-10? Why, yes. But women have fucked up, non-normal rating system. A man is either Sexy Don Juan, or a complete dumpster fire. With 80-90% of men considered "dumpster fire" by the AVERAGE woman.

Is this due to the ceaseless legions of thirsty chodes? Maybe. Can't say for certain.

Social media, Television, Mass Media, marketing --- it makes everyone think they are a "special snowflake beautiful princess" -- I mean even take the iPhone --- it has "I" in it ... yes to feed your narcissism. Consumerism, consumption, products ... they realize that making "buying shit" a form of "self-expression" --- that makes people buy MORE shit. So modern marketing is all about "how do you define yourself" and every commercial is trying to convince you that you are James Bond and need that New Car.

The result is the Age of Narcissism, so that may be factor.

Yes, also, constant validation for women from DESPERATE horny dudes.

That said --- is "beta attention" worthless? Hard to say.

Me personally --- I get regular matches on Tinder --- but also legions of "Fatties" on Tinder as well (I mass Swipe after using Boost). I don't even talk to them, but yes ... OBVIOUSLY I can fuck a great majority of these fatties. But it provides me zero validation at all --- these fatties are desperate ... they'll fuck a wide range of gorillas.

Perhaps so too, with women and betas. Although to be fair, these "betas" comprise maybe the bottom 60% of men, if not more. The fatties ... well they are the bottom 10% of the Tinder market. So it's harder to say what the threshold is for being impressed. Especially since women aren't that looked focused, they may be satiated enough to have 500 matches, regardless of fuckability.

Anyway --- so what?

There's nothing to be done to "readjust" these women's egos. Trust me. Unless you can control television, the Bachelor, celebrity gushing, and the legion of thirsty chodes. You can't.

Only thing to be done is to try to claw your way to the top 10% of males (if you weren't born with model looks, I certainly wasn't) ... and then fuck your way through sloooots.

[–]clonegreen13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's incredibly difficult in this day and age to even have the perspective to think outside the dangerous loop of validation, instant gratification, and consumerism. You're automatically lead to believe this is normal and cool if you don't think outside the box.

It's comforting but ultimately hollow, and leads to forums like the Red Pill where we all gather round to share strategies to move past the funk of dangerous rhetoric and shallowness that is our current landscape.

Ideally we'd all want a society where there is no daddy government, where people respect themselves by not sleeping around breeding bastard children and becoming psychologically damaged.

But it's going to take aware people like us to lead by example. I know some are cynical but it's important to fight even if it's nor naught.

[–]NaughtyFred4 points5 points  (12 children) | Copy

We're in a sexual/relationship market bubble now, bubbles eventually collapse. It's going to get worse before it gets better.

[–]grass_cutter21 points22 points  (11 children) | Copy

I don't see the bubble bursting.

People don't understand the impact of Television as well. Sounds silly, but it's absolutely true, and the average person watches a shit-load of television.

On the advent of mass-televisions in the 1960s ... there was a huge spike in crime.

That's because people became aware of the "other half" and how they live.

In ghettos, pre-TV ... yeah you lived in a shit-hole, but it was your own self-contained shit-hole with its own rules and hierarchy. You worked real hard and saved up, you can buy an old beater car, congrats, you made it.

Enter TV. Oh look, it's Thirsten Howl Jr. He was born with $10 mill in the bank thanks to Daddy. He's pampered while you're working in some shit-mill.

Huge spike of crime. Yes - directly correlated with the spread of TV. The TV itself wasn't evil - it was more - information. Your place on the pecking order. And naturally, no one compares themselves to the slaves in China --- no, but look at your successful neighbor.

Similarly, I believe a similar influence has happened in the modern era with TV.

People watch the Bachelor and American Idol and Gossip Girl or whatever the fuck, and everyone has an awesome 5,000 sqt ft apartment in New York, has a creative job, great friends, and is fucking a new dime piece (man or woman) every fucking week.

Girls are watching that shit - and that is the new normal. Hold out for the 10/10 Zach Efron dude like what's on the idiot box.

To be fair, the same influence has happened to men as well, I think men are holding out for hotter as a combo of TV and porn as well. But the effect is more pronounced in women as they are the sex gatekeepers.

Anyway you got two groups holding out for hotter than say in the 1960s. A lot less sex is being had. Unless you go dumpster diving for fatties. Which many people are not doing.

I'm not sure I know what the answer is. I think we're part of a giant eluilibrium where things are fucked.

The correct move is probably arbitrage: move to a foreign market where your sexual market value is by default much higher. You'll have a small boost in foreign Western market and a huge boost in a foreign Eastern market. Then you can just fuck left and right. Only trade-off is that it's quite a bit adjustment to move thousands of fucking miles away from the US. I personally am not sold on it.

[–]NaughtyFred2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy

Another poster mentioned that basically there's too few female defined "good men" to go around the women who desire them. Therefore some will miss out, That, and all the actually good men who withdraw from the market are the source of the bubble bursting.

We just haven't reached the tipping point.

[–]grass_cutter14 points15 points  (4 children) | Copy

There is no institutional memory among the collective "female" sex population.

Therefore some will miss out

Yes, but they won't realize this until they are aged 35 and already fucked. Then they become bitter, and tell the young bimbos with perky tits "settle honey! you'll be fucked later if you don't!!" (like older women have already been braying for decades now)

Ms. Bimbo PerkyTits will just consider her a lovelorn bitter old hag, who doesn't know shit, especially since there are legions of dick after her, and everyone is nice to her all the time. In fact, the "future" that awaits her cannot even be fathomed. The entire concept that -- absent her looks, strangers are actually neutral, if not hostile -- cannot even be FATHOMED.

In fact there was a huge Reddit thread about this years ago. About a super hot woman/ women who "aged" out of their looks. They were literally absolutely STUNNED about "reality."

They thought doting men, open doors, super friendly people were the norm in society. Then reality kicked in.

Yeah so the 'lesson' will never be learned.

And the cat's out of the bag. Given enough TV exposure, your standards simply rise. Even if you're told --- rationally --- that you cannot reasonably obtain your lofty standards --- that doesn't necessarily make "fatty" suddenly "hot." Same with women. Once they're Disneyfied/ The Bachelor-fied, they're fucked. It's like an 8 year old that will literally only eat Filet Mignot. Fucked. Will live a life of tail-chasing, pain, and misery. "Rational knowledge" will not change this.

[–]NaughtyFred-3 points-2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Well lets stick our collective thumb up our ass then.

[–]grass_cutter4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

If anything, that's the conclusion your idea supports. "There will be a massive market shift making everything easy and better for us men in the near future."

I don't think so homey. This shit you see around us? That's the current reality. And I don't see it changing much in the future, at least not in a predictable way. It may get worse just as well a chance as it may get better. Might as well try to claw your way to being a top 10% male now, or move to a better market (arbitrage). The Golden Era is over.

I don't see the "mass information comparison" and hot people on TV phenomenon and consumer-narcissism culture hopping back in the box anytime soon. Not unless a post-apocalyptic state emerges. At which point you'll have bigger problems than trying to attract a hot piece of ass.

[–]FMMV points points [recovered] | Copy

Great post. Any refs on the TV/crime link?

[–]grass_cutter1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

My googling doesn't seem to turn up anything. It's difficult because most scholarly articles on television and crime have to do with "violence in television causing monkey see monkey do like effects" - a completely different topic. It was something I read back in university years ago. Without recalling the source, it very well may be conjecture by the original author. The reasoning seems plausible to me though.

A related psychological phenomenon that is easy to find on Youtube --- give a monkey some cucumber, and he is happy. Give him some cucumber and another monkey some grapes, and he is very pissed and will toss the cucumber in your face.

Similar idea. You can be content until you seem what your peers are up to. Pretty sure this applies to fictional characters as well we see on television, subconsciously.

[–]lovano6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy

All of this makes me point to one elephant in the room, Anglo society and Anglo culture. I mean just compare white women in Europe outside of the UK to white women in North America. Just look at how an American woman that is a 5 and overweight has a massive ego and how good looking American women think they can get away with everything, the problem is obvious, it's Anglo culture.

Somehow this mix of sexual repression from the religious and cultural side (America's Puritan roots) conflicting with the sexual aggressiveness from the media has created an atmosphere that is toxic to masculinity. Men have their sexual urges repressed by society whether it is angry feminists or the morally self-righteous zealots that believe in a religion while at the same time, having sex thrown at them by music, media, and all over the place.

I think this turns men raised in the US into these thirsty males who want sex as media tells them yet at the same time, feel bad about wanting it. The prototypical nice guys made to elevate the egos of women who don't deserve to have their ego elevated.

Now through this also come some of the worst women who think that not being fat and bleaching their hair blonde is all they need to do in order to run the world.

[–]scarthearmada1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Anglo Society / Anglo Culture was not always like this, of course. The Anglo-Saxon (British) and American societies proved to be two of the greatest, wealthiest powers in all of human history. You don't get that way by being a civilization of weak-willed men. Great Britain sailed all of the world's oceans, and maintained an empire. "The sun never sets on the British Empire," remember? And the United States? The greatest (objectively) economic and military power in human history. No other country in the world has been able to exert itself around the entire globe as well as the United States, for nearly as long.

Again, you don't get that way by being a civilization of weak-willed men.

What changed?

Wealth generates government revenue. Expansion of government revenue attracts new species of social and political parasites. Cultural Marxism sees its own opportunities, and also attaches itself to British and American societies. The early cultural Marxists were nearly entirely Jewish: Gygorgy Lukacs, Max Horkheimer, Felix Weil, et al.

They considered socialism as being the superior method for organizing society's resources, and thought that the proud capitalism of Great Britain and the United States was the ultimate enemy of socialism. Because, after all, it was the Anglo societies that were proving to be the most resistant to Marxist's theories.

In addition to being Jewish, the early cultural Marxists believed that in order for socialism to overtake Anglo society / Anglo culture, the family unit and societal sexual mores must be overturned. Then and only then would the wealthy Anglo social fabric begin to wear, and socialism would not just take root, but take over. And it would, in the end, kill the host.

Lukacs became a minister of culture in Bolshevik Hungary. Lukacs implemented children's lectures filled with all sorts of graphic sexual matter, in order for children to be accustomed to loose sexual morality. Naturally these lectures did not go over so well, and Lukacs fled Hungary when Romania invaded.

A few years later, a number of cultural Marxists met in Frankfurt, Germany, including (surprise, surprise) Lukacs. There, he met Felix Weil. It's important to note that at this point, classical Marxist theory was largely an economic theory for overthrowing class conflict. Weil took quickly to Lukacs' approach for twisting society to accommodate Marxism. Taking classical Marxist theory and molding it in with Lukacs' mentality for degrading the social fabric enough to weaken it, Weil's formed the Institute for Social Research. It would later come to be known as simply The Frankfurt School.

In classical Marxism, the workers of the world were oppressed by the ruling classes. The new theory was that everyone in society was psychologically oppressed by the institutions of Western culture. The school concluded that this new focus would need new vanguards to spur the change. The workers were not able to rise up on their own. But of course, the National Socialists came to power in Germany in 1933. This was not the time or the place to be Jewish in or around Germany, and so many of the intellectual (and wealthy) Jews on the European continent fled to the United States. And they moved en masse to the safer of the two (London, New York City) Western cities: New York City.

In 1934, the school was reborn at Columbia University. Its members immediately began to exert their ideas on American culture. Critical Theory, The Authoritarian Personality, Eros and Civilization, etc. By the 1960s, the cultural Marxists were to be found in many top universities, and the virus continued to spread.

At each step of the way -- Repressive Tolerance, introducing "-" into American social identities (German-American, Irish-American, African-American, etc.), arguing that logic was contextually accurate, and gender as a social construct -- they worked to undermine the Anglo family, and sexual morality in the Anglo world. Herbert Marcuse came to believe that it would be a victim coalition of minorities -- blacks, women, and homosexuals -- who would replace the revolutionary working class in the Anglo-world.

You see, again, the Anglo world consisted of two of the wealthiest, most powerful civilizations in human history: Great Britain and the United States. And the United States, given its (relatively) lack of infrastructure damage from major wars, was the place for people around the entire world aspiring to earn a better life. Marxism -- complete socialism -- wasn't going to come about in the US and the UK as Marx predicted, by a poor working class fighting back against oppressive factory workers. The working class in the US and the UK were wealthier and better off than the upper classes in Eastern Europe and Asia. And people do one thing very well, and have throughout our entire existence, and that's vote with their feet.

The cultural Marxists understood this. They knew that they needed to destroy the family unit and destabilize sexual morality in order to take over. They've been working toward it for decades, with a great amount of success. Every bit of the BLM and feminist protests have their stink on them. And the Red Pill (irony, red pill) is fundamentally a reaction to it. The Red Pill has, ultimately, a choice on whether it wants to embrace the world that the cultural Marxists wish to create, or fight against it.

[–]Cynewald1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Not being fat and not acting like a feminist masculine Bull is a women's only bargaining chip to lure a man, always has been since the dawn of time. The thirst and beta-ness shown by men today is a direct result of both high obesity rates in women (68% of USA women are overweight) and the emasculating culture they are brought up in. If The Red Pill forum on Reddit is to be believed, and any forum for relationships for that matter, there is incredible competition for non-obese women in the Anglosphere west. And because of the inflated attention from online dating, even the ageing obese ones expect to be able to attract a healthy weight man who looks in his prime years. If you ascribe to the idea that you ought to realistically stay within your "league" for dating, the unhappy-making truth is that being a 5/10 healthy weight man in the Anglosphere puts you in the same league as being 40lbs+ overweight does for a woman. Most men who are 4, 5, 6 in looks-rating range are shit scared of this 'rule' and so seek any kind of validation from any non-fat / non-ugly woman behind the veil of a browser.

[–]WASPandNOTsorry0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Completely incorrect. This exists in all cultures. People here like to rave on about Eastern Europe but it's not really any different at the core. Furthermore, America does not have puritan roots. That is a myth that just refuses to die. The puritans never made up a significant portion of the public nor did they ever hold a significant amount of power.

[–]ArkAngelEV4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Excellent post. This circles back to the same drumbeat many men and older woman have noted; that technology has shot past the point of innate biological attraction script optimizations. In much the same way we have abused our taste for sugar, which was once a survival system for seeking out calories, now we are in true abundance of sweets our ancestors of even 2 generations back would have never imagined.

This article hits it on the head. It reminds me of another entry of a woman in her 50s who laments she doesn't get any attention anymore and muses she would pay a good amount to feel the looks and validation she got in her youth. THIS IS THE CLEAREST DISTINCTION OF WHY MEN CANNOT EVER RESPECT WOMEN.

A quote that outlines this succinctly, though I've changed a few words that make the statement ring even more true; " woman aren't ready but more important, the man. Sexual power amplifies everything that is inside; good becomes great, bad becomes worse. The strong (sexualy desireable) man, who has known power all his life, will lose respect for that power but, a weak man knows the value of strength and knows compassion (rejection)."

Unfortunately, nature endows woman with an extreme sexual power before her mental and spiritual development have fully formed. Because of this, she is in a state of arrested development, childlike for much longer, sometimes til their death. But for man, the great majority have to undergo a journey. This quest can be external, traveling to different locales and learning differnet cultures, or internal; exploring past civilizations, closely examining the histories' of noted and influential men, but the end goal is the same. Is there a way to carve and sculpt oneself into an image of greatness.

Only select men realize after a campaign or two that he needn't have to imitate someone else, either past or present. It's being comfortable in his nothingness. To not crave success, and the trappings of such. To do a process, and execute it correctly is man's only satisfaction

[–]BENDERisGRREAT0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I have no idea if this is right or not but its fucking beautiful man

[–]Luckyluke232 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

whats the value of a dick pick, if another 5 guys have sent her a dick pick in the last 20 mins?

[–]Insydeinformation points points [recovered] | Copy

There was never a value in a dick pick.

[–]Luckyluke232 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

obvs. but I know I was using it for reference

[–]logicalthinker10 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

bulge pics are far more successful.

[–]Bear-With-Bit2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Attention-seeking is the default setting for women, especially in their 20s and especially sexual attention. You won't find an 8 or even a 7 working at a challenging job where she can't paste her headshot next to her work. For the rare exceptions you can safely bet she's active on instagram/snapchat.

[–]dantesrage132 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Attention is the coin of the realm in girl-world. Women use attention as a form of currency with other women, which in turn establishes peer status among women’s social groupings.

This was one of the first things I internalized when I first found TRP. To this day, I still believe it's THE KEY to leveling the playing field.

[–]Hjalmbere2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Overheard during lunch, 35+ woman to 30+ friend: You have to like my distance run fb posts so I'll feel inspired.

[–]Forcetobereckonedwit2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

So true. I have a plate who is attractive but by no means an 8, 9 or 10. I had access to her OKC app once and dug in for a bit. There were over 350 visits, over 200 likes, and 30 or so messages, since she had cleared them. Most of the messages were something like "Yo, you're pretty. Let's meet up.". The best were reasonable messages referencing something in her profile and adding in a witty remark and then a hint at meeting.

She had chatted back and forth with 3 or 4 and only 2 had made it far enough to where she gave them her cell number. I found out later that only one had led to a date and that the guy was passive and after a second date ghosted.

So, you can't learn much from only one female on OKC but it did show me that while the girls do get 100s of hits and it feeds their vanity and self assurance, it is actually not indicative that they are out there banging dozens of dudes every weekend.

Just food for thought.

Personally, I fucking hate what social media and dating apps have done to the power balance between us and them, but hey, the world keeps turning. Whatcha gonna do?

[–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

TL/DR: women have abundance mentality.

[–]2kevin322 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'd say they have more like a silver spoon in their mouth. Their "abundance mentality" stems from external validation and favors given freely to them without merit since childhood.

[–]mill581 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

The sad part is that these days even a low SMV fat woman will take a picture in a strange angle to not look fat and she will get compliments and likes just as she was a 9 or 10...

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Can't trust any online photos. Even if they are skinny in the picture, it could be from 6 years ago before she gained.

[–]zoontoondabloon1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Absolutely this. Women who have tons of guy friends and/or are only friends with guys because they are "easier to get along with than girls" are a prime example of this phenomenon. They get attention and validation so often that it results in them pursuing absolutely nothing. Their SMV is as low as it could be yet in their minds they are worth a lot more because of all the supposed attention.

I know girls who are empty. They have no substance or depth whatsoever. No character either. Have never heard of the gym. They have no hobbies and if they were a guy they would be considered a beta or lower because of the lack of SMV, yet they think they are top shelf shit.

In the end what gives me pleasure is that these people will never be truly happy. They are the architects of their own failing.

These girls consider reading and going for walks hobbies. Lmao.

I don't hate women. On the contrary I appreciate the lot of them. Yet I know that most of them are morons.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Just a quick test...


[–]Dank_Meems0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm so sick of my adult male friends drooling over every mediocre woman they see like it's the first time they've seen tits. Stop it. You're making life harder for the rest of us.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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