How to escalate and turn a conversation sexual

Reddit View
May 15, 2017

[DISCLAIMER: I made some edits based on the feedback I was getting. I added the sentence "You don't necessarily need to turn a conversation sexual to escalate, and it may actually be inappropriate in many instances, but if you do want to turn a conversation sexual, this is how you do it." I also changed the line "you look like you need to get fucked" to a situation where SHE brings up sex. That line was throwing a lot of people off.]

The key to escalating is holding frame, like you can be trusted to take control of and guide the entire night. You must also make her feel that what you are doing is not only ok, it is the right thing to do, and if she decides to get off the plane, she is only hurting herself. And of course, you must appear less emotionally invested in the interaction than her while simultaneously escalating.

Men often fail to escalate because they are afraid of looking creepy or needy. This is a legitimate fear – women are constantly harassed by creeps and they will auto-reject guys who put pressure on them or make them feel uncomfortable. But creepiness is just emotional over-investment. Women take longer than men to get emotionally invested, so there is an “analysis” period where she is trying to figure out whether she likes you and/or wants to fuck you. During this time you must show that you are interested and may want to fuck her, while simultaneously being careful to not jump the gun and freak her out. If you do not show sexual interest, she will either assume that you are not interested in her or that you are a huge pussy. If you show too much sexual interest and will feel pressured and scared. In either case, you lose.


”Possibly” and double meaning

You must make clear from the beginning of the interaction you are “possibly” interested in fucking her. If you make clear that you will fuck her no matter what she says or does to you, you are emotionally overinvested and telling her you have no standards or boundaries.

To show that my interest is only “possibly,” I speak in phrases that have a double meaning - one meaning where I am trying to fuck and one where I am not. Double meaning sentences keep her guessing and keep the pressure off of her. By not making the sexual intentions explicit, you aid in her plausible denialability.

The following are examples of things I say. Do not unthinkingly just copy these lines. You must use your emotional intelligence and make whatever you say fit the interaction. These are just examples.

Here is an example, early in the interaction:

Me: Are you single?

Her: Yeah

Me: Well that’s good for me.

Her: Why?

Me: Because that means some dude isn’t going to come from the shadows and try to kick my ass.

This conversation clearly has an undertone of “I’m glad you are single because I am going to try to fuck you” but can also be framed as “I am glad you are single because I don’t want to get beat up.”

If a girl says something sexual to you, you must be nonchalant and also use double meanings so you don't fail her "test":

Her: God I am horny

Me: Well, hopefully somebody can help you with that tonight.

Obviously, I’m telling her there I want to fuck her, but the “double meaning” gives her an “out” so she doesn’t feel like a slut. Another way to use double meaning is with jokes that can be interpreted as being serious or just a “joke.” Another use of double meaning is to “reject” her, but make it clear you still like her. I might say “you know, Kelly, I really like you but we may be incompatible because we are too much alike.” On its face, that’s a rejection, but you can read between the lines and see that it is really a challenge for Kelly to validate herself.

Obviously, you can’t use the “double meaning” theory in physical escalation. It would be creepy and disingenuous (“I wasn’t trying to touch your ass, I thought it was the couch!”). Physical escalation should be direct and unapologetic.


Confidence is faith that you will succeed in what you are doing. It’s also the intellectual thought and feeling that what you are doing is fundamentally right and not creepy or weird.

When I was 6 years old, my mom was sewing and I sat on one of her needles. My mom could see if I was trying to figure out whether to cry or not, so she immediately took a needle and poked by dad in the ass, like it was a fun thing to do. My dad then took a needle and poked my mom in the ass. We all started laughing, and I totally didn’t realize that what had happened was “bad.” Women, similarly, need you to decide whether what is happening is “bad” or not. If you act like it’s not bad, she might still think it’s bad, but she also might think it’s good. But if you act like it might be bad, she will definitely think it’s bad.

Turning the conversation sexual

To not get friendzoned, you must make clear that you have sexual desires. Women are not grossed out by men wanting sex, they are grossed out by men being creepy towards them (i.e., overly emotionally invested). Women want sex too, but they want it when they want it. I love Oreo cheesecake, but if you tried to force feed it to me when I’m at the gym we’ll have a problem.

You don't necessarily need to turn a conversation sexual to escalate, and it may actually be inappropriate in many instances, but if you do want to turn a conversation sexual, this is how you do it:

1) I talk about sex in the abstract.

2) I talk about my own sexual desires.

3) I talk about my desire to have sex with her.

Each shift is a big escalation, and must be done with emotional intelligence. I speak in a logical, almost professorial tone, as if I am completely in control of my emotions and dick and will not be doing anything crazy, weird, unconfident, or rape-y. The best first strikes are those that flow as part of the conversation. Example:

Her: I believe in gay rights.

Me: Me too! My philosophy is that anybody should be able to fuck anybody they want. Who am I to judge? Have a party.

I may also casually bring up a subject involving sex. I may tell a woman about a documentary I saw where girl cops actually had sex with mafia guys to learn their secrets. I’ll then escalate and say something like “now that’s dedication to your job” or “maybe she liked it, maybe she got turned on by fucking the bad guys.” Note that I am not talking about her and I having sex yet.

The next step is to bring up my own sexuality. I usually do this as a joke. At a Christmas party I might point to an ornament on the tree and say “that’s what my balls look like” or I may point to a tall skyscraper and say “that’s so nice they made a monument of my dick.” Again, this is low-risk because I am not directing my scary male sexuality at HER. I may also make a self-deprecating joke if it’s appropriate for the subject. If we are talking about drinking, I might say “I don’t do cocaine because my dick does not appreciate it.”

The final step in making the conversation sexual is talking about fucking HER. This is a huge step because male sexuality can be scary. It’s best done in double meanings to make her feel like she has an out. A good way to bring up sex is in the context of relationships, in an intelligent way. For example:

Her: [Says something about her relationships]

Me: Let me guess what your problem is. You want a strong, dominant man and you have a hard finding that because most men because intimidated by you and you “break” them, even guys that were previously confident.

Her (usually): Oh my god, that is so true! How did you know that?

Me: Because you just look like a very confident, alpha female. And obviously you are very pretty and smart, so you are a catch and probably make men go crazy.

Her: I mean, I don’t want to brag.

Me: The solution for you is to find somebody that can handle your awesomeness and still be confident and dominant. You also need a guy who will dominate you in the bedroom and fuck the shit out of you.

Her: You are so right!

Me: I think I know somebody that can help you.

DO NOT DWELL ON SEX. You don’t want to make it weird or uncomfortable, and you certainly don’t want to look thirsty or desperate. This is tricky ground, so your best bet is to get in, make your point and get out. The vibe you give should be “I’m interested in fucking you, but if you say no I will walk away and find somebody else, no problem.” It’s also good to sometimes downshift your escalation so that girls don’t feel like they are on a crazy train that they can’t get off of. You don’t want to look like a zombie who is excited because he smelled blood. Please also keep in mind that not all women want to talk about sex. A lot of women just want to go right to the act – you have to read them and see what kind of person they are. A lot of liberal, “alternative” women are a lot more open to talking about it than conservative women.


Kino (touching) is important and necessary, but requires you to read the situation and use your emotional intelligence. As with everything, you need to be less emotionally invested than her. I usually do it for a little, back off, and then go back to it. You don’t need to have your hands on her all night for her to want to fuck you – you just need to create that biological “bond” caused by touching. I don’t want a girl to feel like I am smothering her or “trapping” her so I want to give her an “out” if she is not feeling me. Sometimes girls are afraid to say no, so if I back off that give her an opportunity to reassess her situation. But you must go back at a reasonable time so that she doesn’t feel like you lost interest.

If you feel awkward, start slow and build up. When we first start talking, I don’t touch her at all. Then when she starts to show some interest and she wants to say something to me, I will get closer to her so she can talk into my ear and put my arm around the small of her back. When the interesting thing she is saying is finished, I back off and continue the conversation. I do this a few more times as the conversation progresses to make her comfortable with us touching, and at some point I will get more aggressive with the kino when I feel she is ready.

Other ways to escalate:

1) Deep eye contact

2) Slight hair pulling

3) Whispering things in her ear

4) Reacting to things she says with just smiling.


If you go for an escalation and fail, take the leadership position and own it so that it doesn’t become awkward. I might say something like “Well, I tried.” I don’t apologize or start acting weird (supplicating, etc…) because I I didn’t do anything wrong or weird. If she tries to “shame” you for escalating, stand your ground and act like you did nothing wrong (hint: this works better when you actually do nothing wrong – so don’t do anything wrong).

Some comebacks I use after getting an escalation shut down:

1) I was doing you a favor

2) Don’t worry, you might get another chance

3) My mom taught me that if you’re not getting rejected, you’re not trying hard enough

4) You can’t blame me for trying.

If she says no but gets super apologetic, I might just say “I completely understand. Not everyone is a slut like me” or “stop apologizing. Stand up for yourself.” If she actually gets angry, which has never happened, I guess I would say “I apologize, I read the situation wrong.”

If she rejects an escalation attempt, I immediately go cold on it and move on to something else. No begging, no pushing. It’s unattractive and freaks women out to keep pushing. After saying something funny to defuse the awkwardness, I make the conversation platonic again. If I try to make a move on a girl in bed and she says no, I promptly roll over, say “ok, I tried. Good night!” And go to sleep. One of one of the most attractive things you can do is try to escalate, get shut down, and then go back to acting completely normal. Girls will have a lot of respect for a guy who knows what he wants, tries to get it, but then completely respects the girl’s boundaries if she says no.

There is a line of thinking that women “like” to be “taken” and not asked for consent. There is a little truth to this, but whatever you do, please keep in mind the legal consequences of what you are doing and how she REALLY feels. This requires a lot of emotional intelligence and sensitivity. At the end of the day, the woman must want it. Sometimes if I do something “ravishing” I might just make a move and then ask her after a few minutes “do you like this” and if she says yes I keep going. I am not going to risk my future just because some girl is into freaky shit.


Here are my steps to escalating:

1) Ask if she is single

2) Set the frame that you want to fuck her.

3) Speak to her platonically about things you are both interested in THAT ARE NOT HER.

4) Use your emotional intelligence to read her, and when you feel like she is ready, and it is appropriate, escalate confidently using kino or a double-meaning phrase

5) After she has hopefully accepted your escalation, go back to platonic mode.

6) Occasionally get her to change locations with you. Let her know the plan.

7) Repeat steps 3-6 until you close.

1) Ask if she is single

I always ask if she is single as early as it is appropriate. Plenty of girls are happy to waste your time for validation and attention, only to let you know at the end of the night that they have a boyfriend. Fuck that noise. I want to know from the start. Some losers think that asking a girl if she is single is “needy” or “too forward,” but neediness is a function of your demeanor and your frame, not your words. If I ask a girl if she’s single, I am forcing her to qualify herself – I still may walk away even if she is single because I may get bored by her.

2) Set the frame that you want to fuck

This step requires emotional intelligence Usually asking a girl if she is single is enough to set the frame. Sometimes I’ll just say “you look really hot now.” Other times, I may say nothing because it is implied by the emotional context of the conversation. In any event, I need it to be clear that we are not having a “friendly” conversation. Even if she says something like “hey I thought we were just hanging out” I can credibly say “no, I made it clear that I was trying to fuck you.”

A lot of guys are afraid to set this frame because they think they will scare the woman off. Again, creepiness and aggressiveness is a function of your frame and emotional investment. Women do not get annoyed that men want to fuck, they get annoyed when men do it in an awkward, anxious, manipulative, creepy, or overaggressive way.

Think about it like this: if she rejects the idea of fucking you right from the beginning, wouldn’t you want to know that before you wasted a bunch of your time?

3) Speak to her platonically about things you are both interested in THAT ARE NOT HER

Having platonic lulls in your escalation is necessary for several reasons. First, you don’t need to have your hands all over her or be saying sexual shit all night for her to fuck you. You just need to open the door and make sure she feels “accepted” and comfortable with you. Second, escalating all night is exhausting. If you are out with your girlfriend, you would not spend every second escalating so why would do that with some random girl you just met. Third, escalating all night is exhausting. I want to fuck at the end of the night, but until then, I want to have a fun, normal conversation. Fourth, having platonic lulls takes the pressure off of her and makes her feel like you are not a crazy zombie that is hell-bent on fucking her and nothing else: you are actually an interesting, fun person who has more going on in his brain than sex.

Platonic lulls also keep her guessing. From her perspective, you’ve said you want to fuck, but you also talk to her like she’s just another person, but now you’re escalating. What’s really going on with you? Keeping that mystery and uncertainty will keep her stimulated and interested.

4) 1) Use your emotional intelligence to read her, and when you feel like she is ready, and it is appropriate, escalate confidently using kino or a double-meaning phrase

I explained these concepts earlier. I usually escalate on a high emotional note, but please keep in mind that it is not my responsibility to keep her “entertained” on the date. A lot of guys become clowns for girls and are constantly trying to impress them or make them laugh. Fuck that. There is no “show” you can put on for her that will keep her interested all night. The most attractive thing about you is your demeanor – i.e., you following your mission, which in that moment is having fun. She will be more attracted to you following your mission and having fun than trying to artificially create emotional spikes so you can escalate.

When you escalate, read her to see how interested she is in you. If you put your hand on her waist a positive reaction will be her putting her hand around you, a neutral reaction would be her just standing there and not doing anything, and a negative reaction would be her moving away or taking your hand off of her waist. If she reacts positively, great – keep going (but wait a little bit for the next escalation so you don’t look super aggressive). If she reacts negatively, stop and re-assess whether she reacted negatively because you are moving too fast or because she just doesn’t like you. If you are moving too fast, downshift. If she is just not attracted to you, quit and move on. If she acts neutrally, she may be doing so because she is afraid of saying no or because she is just not expressive. Keep escalating, but read her to make sure you are not wasting your time or making her feel uncomfortable.

5) After she has hopefully accepted your escalation, go back to platonic mode

This step is a counterpart to step 3.

6) Occasionally get her to change locations with you.

This may be the most important step. Your ultimate goal is to get the girl emotionally invested in you, and to do this you must get her to DO THINGS FOR YOU. Her words mean nothing – women are trained by society to say whatever guys want to hear. And in the context of a bar or a nightclub, the best thing way to get her to emotionally invest is to follow you around. If she refuses to follow you around, it is either because she is just not interested in you, or you are totally emotionally invested and you need to tap the brakes.

If you get her to change locations with you two or more times, you are probably in. You also need to let her know the plan. I am constantly verbalizing the plan for the night:

• Hey, let’s have a drink here and then go to [some other bar]

• My friends are going to be at X bar in 20 minutes, let’s go meet them after this.

• Dude, I love this song. After this song, let’s go to my house and get a drink.

If you’ve set the frame where you are the leader and she is following you around, she will follow you home. There is no magic line to get her to come home with you – I usually just say “come have a drink at my house” so it’s clear I am trying to fuck.

Go to my website:

"Like" me on Facebook:

Follow me on twitter:

Post Information
Title How to escalate and turn a conversation sexual
Author Woujo
Upvotes 692
Comments 163
Date 15 May 2017 06:43 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Original Link
Similar Posts

Red Pill terms found in post:
thirstyleadershipalphaframekinostandardsdominancethe red pillclose

[–]MEpicLevelCheater[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (8 children) | Copy

/u/Woujo, we would like to thank you for your insightful posts and comments in this subreddit. Your contributions to the RP mission of enlightening our users have been noted, and are greatly appreciated.

I am hereby endorsing you.

[–]logicalthinker161 points62 points  (0 children) | Copy

You don't even need to be direct and talk a lot about sex. You just gotta plant the seed and then walk away. Just make a self deprecating joke and move on to something else. If she's even remotely attracted to you, she'll just be thinking about the D.

Girls aren't dumb. They know guys want sex. So do they. You just gotta make it seem like sex just "happened." A LITTLE kino then back off. She reciprocates? Increase it a little.

[–]Iron_Tits237 points238 points  (27 children) | Copy

"you look like you need to get fucked"

"yeah i do"

"well lets see if i can help you with that tonight"

lmao autistic fuck

[–]adamcrabby70 points71 points  (16 children) | Copy

Seriously. Somebody watches a lot of late night Cinemax.

[–]Throwawaysteve12345610 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

I would NEVER say that personally, but I'm way less bold than these guys. I think you'd risk losing a for sure by making statements that bold, I just escalate physically.

[–]I_0-_-0I21 points22 points  (0 children) | Copy

Christ. These "theory" posts just keep getting worse. Where's the bottom, mods?

[–]MEpicLevelCheater[M] 10 points11 points  (7 children) | Copy

Do not flamebait. We expect responses that provoke discussion, not pissing contests.

This is your only warning.

[–]bluedrygrass11 points12 points  (5 children) | Copy

He didn't flamebait. Op posted shitty content, that is likely to harm people putting it in practice. Aren't we allowed to call out bullshit?

[–]MEpicLevelCheater20 points21 points  (4 children) | Copy

How you call out bullshit matters.

If you want this sub to devolve into threads full of one-liner pissing contests, keep calling each other autistic fucks.

If you want to contribute something to this sub, then point out the writer's mistakes and errors with a thoughtful response.

[–]bluedrygrass3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

But in this case, almost the whole post is wrong. Debating point for point is a waste of time. The majority of op's post goes straight against the basics examples listed in the sidebar for example.

There's no need to not call it out as a whole.

[–]MEpicLevelCheater6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Discussion is not just for your own entertainment.

When you post here, other people read it. So the community is benefiting (or hurting) based on your choices.

That is why we (the mods) prune comments that harm the community - things like flame wars, pissing contests, and other self-indulgent drivel.

If you (a reader) are here for the community, do your part to help the community. If you are just here for yourself, you may as well keep quiet so we don't have to clean up after you.

[–]winndixiedirty4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

You are now debating debating. Hows it hanging in the fifth dimension?

[–][deleted] 47 points48 points  (3 children) | Copy

So, I hadn't really though about your point about asking up front if a girl is single (because I honestly don't care and no girl who wants to fuck you is going to let a silly thing like a boyfriend get in the way) but you make a very salient point about turning the tables on her by making HER pre-qualify herself for YOUR attention. It also robs her of that common out that girls who don't even have boyfriends use when they get bored with the conversation so she has to find a real reason to break contact.

I like it.

[–]Unver points points [recovered] | Copy

The only con I can think of is you may be losing out on women who would be down to cheat on beta bucks with you.

[–]grewapair8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

She'll just lie. All women I know are experts at it.

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Dude, this is money. And the line is almost quasi direct/indirect too, which is cool and probably sets you apart

[–]JBrogrammer13 points14 points  (1 child) | Copy

I thought your example lines were actually fine, don't know what all these people whinging is all about, but oh well. Audience (read: "newer members") misjudged I suppose...

This post's content is a kind of formal corollary from the idea that for a girl to show that she's into you under platonic circumstances, you have to give her plausible deniability. It's nice that it's so complete and specific as well. Really good post.

[–]shmog11 points12 points  (6 children) | Copy

Started with basic common sense knowledge we all already know. When I got to your explanation of the first interaction example I wanted to reach through my phone and slap you. Scrolled down, saw that you were endorsed for this shit, and then when back to finish reading.

The first example isn't framed as either 'Im trying to fuck you' or 'I don't wanna get beat up'. It's one frame: 'i might fuck you, I'm confident in my sexuality, and I'm teasing you'.

The second example. You can see why everyone has a problem with it. Her reply and your follow up makes this out to be a conversation a couple of retards would have. I agree the line can work, in the right context, said by the right guy (congruent). I've said similar things, with a smile. But there's no double meaning here! Yeah it's all playful and not fully invested... That's game!

Then there's some forgettable shit about confidence. Your made up story about your whole family jabbing sewing needles in each other's asses.

Another stellar example with the gay rights convo. You mention bringin up sexual subjects... Every girl I talk to that's interested in me always brings up a sexual subject. It's a great IOI. I wouldn't begin the subject. So I disagree with you there.

Then bringing up your own sexuality by pointing to decorations on a Christmas tree and saying that's what your balls are like. So fucking stupid. Sure, it's just a lame joke. But better to communicate your sexuality by bringing up an interesting and funny story involving an ex.

There's another robotic conversation example. I just can't deal with it any more. Kino.... Yeah we've all known this shit for years.

I don't understand why this shit was endorsed. What here was helpful to anyone?

[–]bluedrygrass1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don't understand why this shit was endorsed.

That guy knows the admin, the admin was just looking for an excuse to endorse him.

[–]Shadowduh1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

There are new people here everyday, things you and other older member know may know they may not know.

[–]bluedrygrass1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

You can find better material in the sidebar.

[–]Shadowduh0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I completely agree with you.

[–]canadianbacon2220 points21 points  (0 children) | Copy

Me: Because that means some dude isn’t going to come from the shadows and try to kick my ass.

I had a similar go-to-line before I discovered TRP. I never knew it had another meaning. Great read.

[–]FREEDOM_OR_FUCK_YOU42 points43 points  (22 children) | Copy

/u/woujo are you legit retarded? "You look like you need to get fucked". This is not realistic or helpful. That is fucking autism.

[–]Endorsed ContributorWoujo[S] 25 points26 points  (6 children) | Copy

First, yes, I am legit retarded. I was diagnosed with stage 4 retardation as a child. Stop making fun of me for it.

Second, I appreciate your feedback. It seems like a lot of people are getting hung up on the "you look like you need to get fucked" line. So I should have clarified.

As I've stated elsewhere in this thread, I'm not trying to feed guys lines. Everything you say must be calibrated with your emotional intelligence. Usually "you look like you need to get fucked" is not appropriate but sometimes it is. That line could be appropriate when you're with an "edgy" girl who is constantly shit testing you, and there is a lot of sexual tension that you need to cut through. I've been around girls long enough to know that if they are being bitchy and annoying for no good reason, it's usually because they need a dominant dude to fuck them.

But like I said, I'm not here to feed you lines, but to teach principles. I just picked the most extreme lines to teach those principles. And focusing on the particular words I chose, rather than the overall point I was making, well, THAT is autism.

[–]burgerkingowner points points [recovered] | Copy

Don't try to cover your bullshit with your vague post-interpretation if what you said.

[–]Endorsed ContributorWoujo[S] 9 points10 points  (4 children) | Copy

Well I already did.

And yes, I do use that line sometimes. And it works for me.

[–]KidGrizz0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Some women talk like this!!! I have heard it!! If she is that attracted to you that line will work. All these "alpha males" scared to say you look like you need to get fucked is baffling to me. It will work with some females guys.

[–]burgerkingowner points points [recovered] | Copy

That is literally something you could say when you know you're already going to have sex. It's just stupid.

[–]Endorsed ContributorWoujo[S] 18 points19 points  (1 child) | Copy

Well guess what: you need to have the mindset that you know you're already going to have sex when you walk into the club.

[–]KidGrizz2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

It can work in some women. Cmon guys stop being bitches. Why y'all so scared?

[–]MEpicLevelCheater[M] -2 points-1 points  (8 children) | Copy

are you legit retarded?

That is fucking autism.

Do not flamebait. We expect responses that provoke discussion, not pissing contests.

This is your only warning.

[–]FREEDOM_OR_FUCK_YOU16 points17 points  (6 children) | Copy

Oh my god. Get over yourself. I had constructive criticism and included an insult. Get the sand out of your pussy, swallow that blue pill.

[–]MEpicLevelCheater[M] -2 points-1 points  (5 children) | Copy

You're out of here.

[–]zupzipuka points points [recovered] | Copy

This is a joke, right? The "SJWs-are-ruining-society" sub banning people for hurting their feelings would be sad.

[–]Askada4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Also no idea what the fuck is happening in this thread. Some guy wrote low quality post with ridiculous advice, while mod gave him flair for it and banned few people who made fun of it.

What the actual fuck, is this trp sub now?

[–]IkilledJarJar5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Nah the mods are right, his comment did not add anything productive at all to the conversation,, all he did was criticize him without explaining why....we don't want this sub to devolve into some 10th grade banter.

[–]ptisn1 points points [recovered] | Copy

I know man. This guy's a fucking idiot.

[–]Endorsed ContributorWoujo[S] 14 points15 points  (2 children) | Copy

Why are you not responding to my posts? You keep saying I'm creepy, but I'm trying to have a dialogue with you, but you can't actually point out what you disagree with.

[–]Goddamnpanda4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Because you're creepy and he doesn't want to talk to you. You're making him uncomfortable.

[–]Shadowduh3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Not sure if joking but gave me a good laugh.

[–]RedPillgrim0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

While I think it sounds cringy, I do believe woujo. How many times has it been said its not what you say but how you say it? HSP says in a post that he said something like BLARGHUBLAHBLUBBLAH and the bitch ate it up. Sure its not smooth, but you don't have to be with women. I've fucked girls by not even saying a word to them (but they were drunk) don't over complicate it.

[–]meh6139 points10 points  (8 children) | Copy

Thank you for this.. I guess the next step for me is to up my emotional intelligence, any tips regarding how to do this, gents?

[–]Sumsar014 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Read "how to make friends and influence people", "48 laws of Power" and then practice a lot.

[–]Endorsed ContributorWoujo[S] 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

Good question, I have to think about that.

[–]meh6132 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Thanks for any bandwidth you expend, I promise you it won't be for nought.

[–]Frigzy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I think most of it is already there usually. It's just other mental activity that gets in the way more often than not.

I remember learning game and missing out on so much potential k- or f-closes simply because I was too preoccupied with approach anxiety and strategies.

The tricky part is that it's mainly confidence which can bring you the peace of mind to allow your emotional intelligence to do its work. And confidence isn't an overnight gain.

[–]shr3dthegnarbrah0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

A professional counselor can be useful but it's hard to find one that's exactly what you want. I'd recommend good friends who you can already recognize as emotionally intelligent people.

[–]redpill770 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The best way is to read theory and field reports while practising on people and failing.

Reference experience. That's the name RSD uses. It's one of the basic tenets. Go out an interact A LOT. Some guys do it everyday.

None of the tips provided here are fully usefull until they've become part of your practice. So consciously try things and speed it up. Unless you're a sociopath you won't keep any disingenuous technique. But you should give a technique a fair try first because occasionally there are ones that sounds wrong until you realize how right they are.

[–]ptisn1 points points [recovered] | Copy


[–]1Ramesses_13 points14 points  (9 children) | Copy

This is textbook PUA advice. In other words how to externally act like an alpha without internally actually being one.

[–]ptisn1 points points [recovered] | Copy

I find this guy's advice deeply deeply disturbing.

[–]Endorsed ContributorWoujo[S] 2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy

Yeah but you are giving literally the same advice and you keep ducking me when I ask what about my post you disagree with.

This isn't The_Donald. You need to actually have a conversation with somebody you disagree with.

[–]1Ramesses_15 points16 points  (6 children) | Copy

Not the guy you responded to but I'll engage. Everything about this is a super strategic and controlled manipulation. That's PUA not red pill.

  • PUA is giving a beta an alpha script and telling him to read his lines.

  • Red pill is becoming a person whose natural behaviour is extremely attractive as a byproduct of internalising truth and improving and changing who you are.

Having a checklist of what to say and when in order to get a woman into bed is decidedly not that.

Not against PUA though, it certainly works so if that's what you want to do that's what you should do. Just be aware that the inauthenticity and lack of congruence makes a lot of us cringe.

*edit: slight wording change

[–]Endorsed ContributorWoujo[S] 5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy

I made it clear a million times both in my OP and in the comments in this thread that I am not expecting people to use my lines. I am just giving examples to teach general principles.

I really think people here are having trouble reading.

[–]1Ramesses_6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

Oh man you're really getting hung up here. Ignore the lines and pretend you just wrote the principles of what to say. It's still the exact same thing: a super strategic way of behaving to manipulate a girl's response. You won't be alpha but you'll slay like one.

PUA which is what you teach is all about using planned behaviour to manipulate. It's not about internalising what makes a man extremely attractive and becoming that. What you teach has its place but it's not for everybody. Look how frustrated and butthurt you've become in the comments. You reek of insecurity. Who gives a shit what anyone thinks? You obviously. This is why these PUAs all tend to break down at some point. You haven't changed. You're not who you pretend to be. An analogy would be thinking you're a master of chemistry because you memorised the answers to the test.

In other words you're not actually attractive you just learned how to act like you are and that's what you're teaching. And how validation seeking you're being is proof ok that. You can stick with this phase. You're getting laid that means you're god right? Or you can get back to basics and figure who you are, who you want to be and leave manipulating women out of it. Otherwise you will have a very unfulfulling life. You will not find the approval you're seeking and any woman you let see the real you is going to destroy you.

[–]Endorsed ContributorWoujo[S] 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

a super strategic way of behaving to manipulate a girl's response.

Yes, that's what I'm trying to do. That's what every guy is trying to do when they get laid. Don't act like you're not. The difference here is I'm not lying to anybody.

PUA which is what you teach is all about using planned behaviour to manipulate. It's not about internalising what makes a man extremely attractive and becoming that.

No, it's both. I teach how you to improve one's confidence, but also, there are certain weird and counterintuitive quirks about women that you need to learn. Just like becoming an alpha male doesn't automatically make you a good employee or a good father, it won't automatically make you good with women.

Who gives a shit what anyone thinks? You obviously.

Ok then I shouldn't read or respond to your post then, right?

I made this post to start a discussion and get some good feedback. I'm not perfect at this nor did I ever claim to be. And I did get some good feedback and I already edited my post. But there are some dudes that pretend to want to want a real discussion, but the moment you interrogate them their "feedback" just becomes insults. And I can't figure out which is which a lot of the time. So yeah, I'm responding to negative comments. It's not because I'm insecure or whatever, it's because I'm trying to come to the right answer. And I'm closer today than I was yesterday.

And your post is obviously a diatribe against PUA culture in general and has nothing to do with my post. I agree with what a lot of your post with respect to most PUAs, but you clearly didn't read or think about my post carefully enough.

[–]1Ramesses_3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Perhaps you're right friend, perhaps you're right. There's always a great deal of nuance lost in text communication. Perhaps in person we could come to a greater clarity. Either way it's not really relevant; it's not important for us to agree. If we have divergent viewpoints and missions so be it.

Here's what I've learned in my life. I only really learn through experience. Sure I can think I get something by hearing about it. But I don't really til I've done it. Example: you can read every book on business but you'll learn a shitload more from running one.

The long bow I'm drawing here is trust yourself. If you've had the experience and you know what works doesn't it seem illogical to seek feedback from people who haven't had the experience and don't necessarily know what works? And further still may even have their own experience with conflicting data showing something else that works?

Trying to come to agreement on this sort of forum? No wonder you're frustrated.

As an addendum. If you unapologetically own what you do who really gives a shit what it is. People will insult you from their own mental space and you will hear it from your mental space. There's only one you have any control over and only one worth worrying about. Trust yourself.

[–]gcor7 points points [recovered] | Copy

In his defense despite not being fan of his post or even pick up dipshits,

It's not the worst idea to hand a script to an aspiring alpha at the beginning. Think of it like training wheels. Eventually they'll get the wisdom and experience to not stick to a script anymore.

[–]1Ramesses_0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Not at all. It's a great idea. That's what game is at first. You're not Chad Thundercock inside but if you act like him you can slay like him. It's still not real.

[–]RXience2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Women want to feel important. Making them think you don't care about them or don't like them is a mistake

This is not just true for women but for everyone. To cite The Like Switch:

If you want to make friends you have to make them feel good about themselves

[–]Endorsed ContributorWoujo[S] 18 points19 points  (5 children) | Copy

Lol, these conversations just scream creep.

Anything can sound creepy if you do it wrong. "Hello" can be creepy if you do it wrong.

I think it made it very clear that anything a person says or does must be calibrated with their emotional intelligence. I don't know how many more times I could have written that. I am not here to feed people lines to say, those are just examples to illustrate the points I was making. And of course, I used the extreme example. I have said all those things, and they've worked, but I don't advocate that people say them in every situation.

Turning a conversation sexual isn't very hard.

It's hard for a lot of guys, which is why I wrote this article. I write shit based on what guys tell me they have problems with. I'm glad it's easy for you. It's not for a lot of people.

It's best to just joke around a little bit, show her you laugh, maybe ask her if your butt looks good in your jeans, then say well, yours is okay too I guess. Just funny stuff. She'll usually escalate if she's comfortable. And just read the situation.

So basically you're saying the exact same shit I'm saying. Like, I'm saying the exact same thing. No differences. What are you mad at?

Making them think you don't care about them or don't like them is a mistake.

Where did I say to do that?

You don't have to rub it in their faces and tell them you will move on easily if they don't like you.

I never said to SAY THAT explicitly, but that's how she should feel. She definitely shouldn't feel like you're going to hang around all night no matter what she does.

Don't act all sexual right out of the gate and be all creepy.

Where did I say act sexual right out the gate? Did you even read the fucking article?

You either chose to ignore my point about emotional intelligence or your reading comprehension sucks.

[–]ptisn1 points points [recovered] | Copy

No offense man, but all your talking points are creepy and sound like they were written by a guy who plays Dungeons and Dragons, lives in his moms basement, and whose only experience with women and pussy are from cheesy pornos and sex dolls

[–]Endorsed ContributorWoujo[S] 18 points19 points  (1 child) | Copy

Well dude I responded to the points you made, and all you can do is just reply with an insult proving to me that you just wanted to be a douche.

You haven't even pointed out to anything in my post you actually disagree with. You criticized my lines, but I told you that the lines are just examples meant to illustrate certain points.

I'm looking for honest, real feedback, because I plan on using this material for my book, but you're not giving any.

[–]Cthulhuonpcin144p3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think one bit of feedback is that all the things you are saying make you seem robotic.At the same time you get hurt whenever someone makes fun of you which in turn makes you look fake as shit.

[–]Hikage-best-knaifu10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy

You also sound a bit sociopathic.

Which would be an advantage, no?

[–]grewapair4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Like a lot of advice on this sub, it will work for some, not for others. If you're a 9 or a 10, it will work. But then, so will everything else.

[–]Luckyluke234 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

so i got this far into your post

But creepiness is just emotional over-investment.

AND HAD THE BIGGEST REALIZATION EVER. thanks so much it's a great post and i need something like this right now... it really pulls together " the pull" nicely

also i can't like you on facebook i get an error.

[–]Mike37777477414 points15 points  (3 children) | Copy

These are terrible suggestions, what the fuck dude.

[–]Endorsed ContributorWoujo[S] 6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

What's so terrible about them?

[–]Mike3777747748 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

What most other comments already said. In practically all situations the replies you mentioned in the post sound cringy in real life. No offense man, but it really is true. Go and test them for real and see how you look, if you don't believe it.

[–]Endorsed ContributorWoujo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Dude I made it clear a million times that these are just examples and need to be calibrated using your emotional intelligence.

[–]killmenow118712 points13 points  (4 children) | Copy

Who knew the key to getting laid was pointing at Christmas ornaments and saying "that's wut mah ballz look like xDDD"

[–]segagaga8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yeah I have to agree that sounded very cringeworthy. That might work if you're 15, American, and have all the conversational elegence of a wet tampon. That would not work in many countries.

[–]shr3dthegnarbrah2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

People laugh at dumb shit; don't you still laugh at Dumb and Dumber? Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure?

[–]Endorsed ContributorWoujo[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

well i'm glad I opened your eyes

[–]bluedrygrass7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

"Me: Are you single?

Her: Yeah

Me: Well that’s good for me.

Her: Why?

Me: Because that means some dude isn’t going to come from the shadows and try to kick my ass. This conversation clearly has an undertone of “I’m glad you are single because I am going to try to fuck you” but can also be framed as “I am glad you are single because I don’t want to get beat up.”

-That's "subtle" or "double meaning" to you? Damn, where do you live or who do you hang up with? Not even a whore would find that subtle.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Did you just type a fucking 10k word essay on how to turn a convo sexual?

This is called overthinking and having a wild imagination.

[–]DesconocidoUK12 points13 points  (2 children) | Copy

Just laugh it off when she tests you by knocking back your advances. Smirk. Call her a "good girl". Change the subject. Spank her ass, get up and move away and crack open a beer or something. Look bored. Yawn. Etc. Don't say "Well, I tried". Sounds a bit whiny.

[–][deleted] 27 points28 points  (1 child) | Copy

I wouldn't suggest a physical escalation for a girl who just rejected an advance, but I like the "good girl" approach. It's an underhanded shot at her and she's likely to respond by trying to prove you wrong.

[–]DesconocidoUK3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Depends on the advance - a first kiss standing up and she turns her cheek maybe not, but that's suggestive of lack of kino build up and misjudged kiss attempt without chemistry. But if you've already built up the touching and definitely if you've kissed, spank and smirk away my friend. Remember you DGAF.

[–]ptisn1 points points [recovered] | Copy

This guy's advice is absolutely creepy, chilling, and outright awful. His view of women is totally creepy and any sane women will notice this. Only take this advice if you want to be seen as a creeper and get no pussy. It sounds like it was written by Dennis from Always Sunny in Philadelphia. Don't do this shit. It will not end well.

[–]Endorsed ContributorWoujo[S] 4 points5 points  (26 children) | Copy

Dude I'm trying to have a dialogue with you, and all you can do is spew insults.


You posted your view of escalation, and I don't see any differences between that and mine.

And why are you talking about me in the third person? I'm addressing you directly.

[–]Sumsar013 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

To be honest these people have no idea what you can say to women and what they will find funny if you hold frame.

There is a reason why pretty much all female comedians pretty much only make "Dick and vagina" jokes.

[–]slay_it_forward1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

If that's actually a guy he's a conplete faggot. What man says creepy that much?

[–]ptisn1 points points [recovered] | Copy

Amazing deduction. The logic of which is definitely on par with Plato, Einstein, Newton, and all the great thinkers.

[–]ptisn1 points points [recovered] | Copy

This dude is now DMing me. Total creeper. Weird.

[–]Dat_Chad6 points7 points  (5 children) | Copy

did he tell you you look like you need to get fucked?

[–]ptisn1 points points [recovered] | Copy

Haha, he just called me a pussy a bunch of times and asked me why am I "ducking" him.

[–]Dat_Chad5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

does not show true frame at all

[–]Papa-johns5 points points [recovered] | Copy

Just imagine how pissed he gets when he gets rejected

[–]The1WhoCsAll4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy


[–]bluedrygrass0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

He seems to have some direct contact with an admin there, he's defending him like he's his son or something.

[–]shmog0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah. Something very weird going on here. Crap PUA advice endorsed and his blog promoted with the mod banning people for calling it shit. Never seen that here before

[–]P4_Brotagonist6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Christ alive dude if I would have read this as a 17 year old I would have absolutely died. It took me nearly 10 more years to really figure out the "what's weird what isn't weird christ I hope I'm not coming off like a pushy dick."

This pretty succinctly spelled out all of the stuff I learned and then some into a perfect digest.

[–]teetotumm points points [recovered] | Copy

Damn, as a woman, I feel bad for the men who take this shit seriously.

[–]MEpicLevelCheater[M] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

No one cares about your vagina, or your disapproval. Banned.

[–]M0RKET2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Dude, good post. What sort of alternate reality are we in? Are we being brigaded by BP trolls or something? All reasonable/supportive comments are being downvoted...

[–]bluedrygrass1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

And an admin is snap banning anyone who disagrees with op.

[–]Freddie2309 points points [recovered] | Copy

Hey Woujo,

Appreciate your posts. There's a lot of emphasis on lifting here on RedPill, how much do you think it matters?

[–]Endorsed ContributorWoujo[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think it's absolutely necessary. Not just to attract women, but for your own health and mental and physical well being. I don't advocate necessarily just getting "big" but rather getting in shape and having a strong, athletic body.

[–]Throwawaysteve1234562 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is a fantastic post, thanks for that. A lot of the time people are explaining the same theory in their own words, and certain presentations of it just really speak to you. Cheers.

[–]Throwawaysteve1234561 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The ending was actually really helpful, by getting her to follow commands to change location, and then move the last location to your house. Fucking brilliant. They do the same shit in prison when there's a guy freaking out in their cell (e.g they say shit like "sit down on the bed" etc before entering to see if he/she is compliant).

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

These examples are written like an autist wrote them, no girl in the history of the world would react positively to being called an alpha. I would guarantee a good portion of them wouldn't even know what the fuck you mean by that.

This is a man who takes himself far too seriously around women. Women want to have fun, they want to fuck someone who will show them a good time in more than one way. Calling them alpha is not one of those ways.

You spend too much time in your own headspace. You act like you can't risk it for the biscuit, if you want to fuck it's high risk high reward. You make some jokes, you flirt a little and if she's interested you'll know, if she isn't then pack it up and move on. It isn't rocket science.

More often times than not the difference between a creeper and a stud is appearance and inflection. If she finds you ugly and you come onto her you are a creeper, full stop. There is nothing you are going to do to change her mind on that subject, but who gives a fuck, there are a least a billion more eligible women as long as you don't give up you'll get what you're looking for.

If you take care of yourself and work on yourself as much as you can you will attract women whether you want to or not unless you're John Merrick. The harder you try to pursued and work on game the more you are likely to fuck up from over thinking. Best way to become a ladies man is to get rejected, A LOT.

[–]Endorsed ContributorWoujo[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

no girl in the history of the world would react positively to being called an alpha

Are you fucking kidding me? I have had tons of girls tell me they were an "alpha female." There are a lot of hot, confident girls that turn dudes into weak puddles.

That's a real problem with a lot of women. They intimidate guys and turn them into bitches. A lot of women understand RP truths and they literally cannot find a guy to be the alpha they want.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

I have had tons of girls tell me they were an "alpha female."

I simply do not believe you. Or at the very least these "gurls" are going to be "internet pretty." Anyone who has to declare themselves an alpha is probably an omega.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

It looks like I'm not the only one calling you autistic, if anyone doesn't know what they are talking about it's you dude, sorry for the reality check.

[–]Endorsed ContributorWoujo[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I simply do not believe you.

That's fine. That's your right as an American. You don't have to believe me.

But it sounds to me like you don't have any experience with this issue at all. Have you ever had this conversation with a girl, ever? If not, why the fuck are you "guaranteeing" it wouldn't work?

Anyone who has to declare themselves an alpha is probably an omega.

I agree with you, but still, tons of people call themselves alpha, even girls. How can you deny that?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm guessing I'm a great deal older than you so I'll just relent and say K.

[–]markyLEpirate2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Good post! It was a good read before I go out with some chick and her friend right now. Should be fun

[–]Smokerbank0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

"You look like an alpha female" "You look like you need to get fucked" My fucking sides man

On a serios note, the "meta" with the steps and all that look good, maybe its an attitude that fits you but damn man, those examples, maybe they sound better when you say them but here... and sorry that the truth hurts you mod, you shouldn't have endorsed him and ban everyone who contradicted you just because you liked the post too much/or it resembles you or your attitude, this is the equivalent of tumblr safe space hypocrisy

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I like the spirit of the post to make things playful but I can't pretend I actually care for the shit most women talk, fuck them sure but if I can't I will not die from it, tons of bitches want to fuck in the right settings go to vegas or some party place plenty of fun sluts there

[–]redpill770 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I think Woujo's refutations are worthwhile. They help anyone who might be considering these blue-pill responses to realize he knows what he's talking about. Woujo's attentiveness to this post shows the community is productive and worthwhile amid blue-pill derailing.

[–]hipstersdontlie0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for the insightful journey. Much appreciated.

[–]aysopfab-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Lost my virginity through talking like this.. Shit works guys; fucking do it. Confidence is key and be sure to have wit and timing ;)

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I read this then went and rape a girl, and she liked it!

[–]erotic_troll points points [recovered] | Copy

This is a great empowerment lesson. The asshole that bullied you is getting all the hot sex and yet here you are on Reddit wasting time aging.

For every second that passes by, a woman is being pleasured by another man and is winning at life. Every thrust and pounding she enjoys is one less you can enjoy. Here you are waiting for the scraps of society.

[–]FluffDevotee-1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy

Wow, can't like your FB page for some reason, oh well.

Good post.

[–]Endorsed ContributorWoujo[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

FB just took it down. I'll make a new one soon. thanks.

[–]FluffDevotee2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Why though? That was awfully fast.

[–]Endorsed ContributorWoujo[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

[–]triggerandrepeat points points [recovered] | Copy

What are some of the platonic conversational topics you'd suggest?

[–]Endorsed ContributorWoujo[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

[–]superjoshuavalentin-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

All I read was Oreo Cheesecake.

[–]mikas75-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Ah, one more short post from Woujo... as asual... but thanks

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

© TheRedArchive 2021. All rights reserved.

created by /u/dream-hunter