You do not want to be a sociopath.

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June 22, 2017
The Dark Triad gets talked up here a lot, most recently by bogeyd6. With all respect to the points he is making, this is crazy. Striving for sociopathy to be better with women is like striving for autism so you can be better at math.
First of all, sociopathy is a condition, not a skillset. You don't learn it, you have it. Second of all, it is not a condition anyone in their right mind would choose to have.
Yes, sociopathic traits can be helpful in some circumstances, if you're high-functioning. But sociopaths are born of an abusive childhood. Take the most successful, charismatic, ruthless, world bestriding, babe-bedding, devil-may-care sociopath you can name, and look inside.
You will find a small child getting raged at by his mother because he behaved like a small child, a boy getting beaten by his father for not walking the dog, a teenager whose home is the least safe place he knows, a young man so full of anger he destroys things because that's the only power he can exercise.
All that cool, impulsive, risk-taking DGAF attitude comes from literally not giving a fuck - specifically, about yourself. It's easy to be edgy if you have to nearly die to feel alive.
All that compelling charisma and charm comes from living in a place where you can never show weakness, can never get a need met simply by asking for it, where everything is a game of manipulation and you spend years losing before you ever manage to win. And then you learn you can't actually win what must be offered freely to have any value.
All that intriguing darkness comes from a real and deep urge to self-destruction. Try going to sleep every night to dream of dying. Better still, try not going to sleep every night and just thinking about it. For a week. Rinse repeat at random intervals.
This stuff takes decades to heal, if you're lucky enough to heal at all. The scars never leave.
Certainly, study sociodynamics. Learn to be charismatic, learn to be charming, learn to be socially smooth, because these ARE skills. Let go your inhibitions, take risks, give yourself great experiences, give the people you're with great experiences too. Own your masculinity and rock her world in bed. Just remember, what is really rewarding in human sexuality is not the sex, not the orgasm, not the notch on your bedpost, but the intimate, human connection that is forged in sex but lived in life. Sociopaths struggle with this, at best. It's not something to be envied.
Note: Sociopaths and psychopaths are not the same thing. For the purposes of this post, they are close enough to be treated as one.

Post Information
Title You do not want to be a sociopath.
Author RatioRegnum
Upvotes 862
Comments 188
Date 22 June 2017 10:25 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
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[–]flametwin1111208 points209 points  (8 children) | Copy

I think like half of the internet needs to read this

[–]bluedrygrass128 points129 points  (4 children) | Copy

And the other half need to learn that being autistic isn't "cool", doesn't mean to be a genius or even smart, but in 99% of the cases means being dumber than a rock, completely unable to do any math, or to avoid drooling all over the place for what matter.

"I'm slightly autistic hehe" no you're not, you're just a nerd without social skills.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (1 child) | Copy

I actually have the condition, and no its not fun. I'm in the 1% high functioning crowd. my diagnosis was in 1990. how women treated me growing up, incl. my mother and sister, is why I display sociopathic traits. I went from being introverted to pretty extroverted but some people don't like what they hear coming from me.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

funny thing is, I managed a fiancee.

[–]Willkuer_26 points27 points  (0 children) | Copy

"I'm slightly autistic hehe"

That sounds a lot like asperger which exists and describes a lot of the behavior of the best students in STEM fields.

[–]jackandjill2212 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

striving to be a sociopath to bed women is like autism for mathematics


Brilliant post especially considering how short it is.

[–]j-pHil1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

And most people here haven't read Models

[–]NoFapColdShower28 points29 points  (0 children) | Copy

"Striving for sociopathy to be better with women is like striving for autism so you can be better at math." quote made me laugh. good post though.

[–]_MysticFox138 points139 points  (0 children) | Copy

As someone from a fucked childhood, I'm glad you brought light to this matter.

[–]titwhiskey42 points43 points  (3 children) | Copy

I agree that we should not strive to be sociopaths and that the associated traits are a product of years of abuse.

I think the guys that preach this sort of behavior and mentality are over compensating by a long shot. Most of them probably were huge pushovers, gullible and naive.

Although i disagree with their approach, i do believe we need to embrace the darker sides of ourselves in order for us to be feared and respected. This doesnt mean you should attempt to instill fear in others to the point that you are unapproachable. But you need to ascertain your dominance to a point so people know that you are capable of being feared.

It is better for you to know your capacity towards sociopathic behavior and control that behavior than for you to be a punching bag.

[–]stonepimpletilists points points [recovered] | Copy

At the very least, if you're not capable of doing anything morally queasy, then all your virtue signalling is simply trying to pat yourself on the back for being weak and powerless.

[–]titwhiskey0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I dont think you can be virtuous without acknowledging the capability of malevolence and withholding when necessary.

[–]Dokkobro80 points81 points  (34 children) | Copy

Fuck man.

You hit me right in the feels with this.

Meditation, Prayer, and hard work that pays off is my only fucking hope to get out of this spiral. That and accepting responsibility for everything I have a hand in, and trying not to get too emotional about shit I can't control. Alcoholic father who beat the snot out of me, mother who ran a business and was never there, literally carted around to aunts, cousins, babysitters, daycare, etc. TRP has made me realize (along with a healthy dose of the 12 steps) that I have to break the cycle of malice. I can't raise another human like I was raised. I will become successful, I will become independent, I will create an atmosphere around me of permanent Dudeness, and I will choose which woman on this planet to raise my children while I'm away. She will raise them how I want them raised, with tons of love and acceptance.

2 years ago I was sleeping with a fucking loaded gun under my pillow hoping it would go off because maybe thats not suicide... Then healing began (not by my choice, again, thanks Bill W. and Dr. Bob) and I started lifting again. I started eating right. I started expanding my mind. I began to actually lose myself in meditation and serenity. I began to feel the spirit of the universe in everyday conversations with people. The only truths that matter are the universal ones. The only two truths that I know beyond a shadow of a doubt are true for everyone, are how well we stay connected to our higher power determines how good we feel; and that you can't take anything with you when you die, so all that matters is how we treat each other.

Thanks OP, as the great Dance Gavin Dance once put it, the truth hurts when lying on your back. Little realizations like your post help me to realize I'm not unique in wanting the pain to stop. However, I'm not unique in bearing the burden of putting my head down and plowing that fucking field.

Spiritual wisdom will always trump earthly wisdom. That's why I focus on the big picture and try to be a force that attracts other good people to the light. I'm fucking done feeling sorry for myself. The ways of women in society is a moot point, people are fucking dumb, why would I want to succumb to the manifesting "Idiocrasy"-like scenario we are rapidly approaching when I can choose to focus on myself in order to reach a higher plane of existence with my God?

To dudes who are just coming to TRP, I suggest you read the books that started the mantrospection movement you see here, versus going off what could be neckbearded basement hobbitses posting complete garbage rhetoric about becoming emotionless. Surrendering my spirit and being honest with everyone was the only way for me to realize (again) that I'm a fucking bad motherfucker and I (along with God's help) can do anything I want to.

p.s. sorry to atheists... I used to be one... I know the "G" word is a fiery needle in your ass. I promise it's better on this side though. Fuck the darkness, I want to be surrounded by wholesome love, mannnn.

Thanks again OP.

[–]Fedor_Gavnyukov21 points22 points  (0 children) | Copy

like immortal technique said: "universal truth is not measured by mass appeal"

[–]JustDoMeee11 points12 points  (1 child) | Copy

Fuck man.

You hit me right in the feels with this.

Very inspiring comment, thanks bro

[–]Dokkobro12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

I can only share what I have been given. I shouldn't be alive, and I should also be in prison, the fact that I'm not, means I'm going to try and prevent as many people from going through what I chose to go through.

It's not easy pouring your heart out, but inevitably it helps someone somewhere, and healing happens.

Few people live to learn that surrendering is actually choosing to win the fight before the first punch is thrown.

Keep on dancin.

[–]RatioRegnum[S] 22 points23 points  (1 child) | Copy

Pleased to help. I find my stability in science, but if faith works for you, it works.

You can't undo what was done to you. You can do better for your children.

[–]jm510 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I find my stability in science, but if faith works for you, it works.

It is easier to believe that a 3 day old corpse went walkabout than believe that there are parts of the universe where time does not exist. Plenty of unbelievable stuff once you go outside of classical physics.

[–]sour_jesus9 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy

p.s. sorry to atheists... I used to be one... I know the "G" word is a fiery needle in your ass. I promise it's better on this side though. Fuck the darkness, I want to be surrounded by wholesome love, mannnn.

Get on my nigga Jordan B. Peterson, start with his 2nd JRE podcast #958. I'm an atheist too but his lectures and reasoning helped me greatly understand and found a new appreciation for the religion.

[–]chinawinsworlds points points [recovered] | Copy

Religion can be a huge positive for society in general, but believing it is honestly pure stupidity.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

Indeed, the kind of retarded shit you mention seeing never comes from the original guys because it violates the most absolute core tenant of this place: you get in, take what you need and what works for you, and then you get out.

A lot of people like to mull it over for years without actually applying anything that they read against some iterative self-improvement process that they can measure and repeat, and those are usually the ones writing the trash that headlines "how to be a sociopath/how to not give a fuck about people/how to get revenge on society" and such.

There should be more of those weeks, or maybe even an entire subreddit, dedicated to only letting the core fellows post things alongside question threads. Most everything in-between is under-researched, under-tested and under-performing.

[–]Dokkobro2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

They jist dern't make em lack dey used'ta.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Meditation, Prayer, and hard work that pays off is my only fucking hope to get out of this spiral.

Amen, brother. 100%. You should try fasting, too, I find it builds discipline and patience.

[–]maniclurker points points [recovered] | Copy

It's less of a fiery needle, and more of an ironic joke, when people claim to be redpilled theists.

[–]Dopesack points points [recovered] | Copy

Old dgd is objectively some of the best music ever made

[–]Dokkobro0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Got me through some muddy roads, that is certain.

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points  (0 children) | Copy

There is no god, I'm happy for you though.

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy

You're absolutely right. The world you live in to become a sociopath is hellish. It's the part of your life that should be filled with wonder, being able to trust your family, having a feeling of safety and security. None of that happens and you learn to survive the hard way, and it build an abyss filled with hatred and anger. You never learn to love, nor do you learn to trust anyone, when you do finally learn to trust and they fuck it up, it destroys you. Empathy is an alien concept, you don't give a fuck about anyone else, fuck them, you can't trust them anyway.

Everyone who is supposed to be there for you tries to destroy your life, often for no reason, simply because they can. You're alone growing up, and eventually you accept being alone and come to prefer it. Nobody can hurt you when you're alone.

You either end up in prison, homeless, a serial killer, or almost completely alone in life. Sure it's easy to fuck lots of girls, but they're all meaningless warm places to jack off. Even if you care about them, it's only because you don't want to lose them, not because you actually care about them.

Use the skills like he said.

You don't want to endure the hell that makes you this way. Most of you never will, be thankful.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

And if you happen to be in that position, try and exit quickly - supposedly there's a time limit under the immense stress and abuse before you reach the point at which it 'clicks' and your vasopressin/oxytocin/glucocorticoid receptor genes change expression in response - and then it becomes hard to undo.

Worse so if you have mutations that make you prone to depression, then you won't be sociopath-ing your way out of anything.

[–]Conceited-Monkey16 points17 points  (2 children) | Copy

I remember once reading about an actor playing a psychopath finding it a real challenge because he found the character's inner world was so barren and empty. A psychiatrist afterwards commented that the actor had likely nailed the role. Being a psychopath or sociopath should not be an aspirational goal. Both are personality disorders, and both personalities can inflict a lot of damage on the people around them, as both disorders are characterized by a complete absence of, or very limited empathy. This also tends to handicap developing long term relationships of any sort, which can be of some use in social development.

Due to people with these disorders often being capable of managing risky behaviour owing to their lack of emotion, there are occasional arguments that they can be useful in certain roles - like soldiering, fighter pilots, or bomb disposal. However, this is little evidence this works out well in practice. Nobody wants to work with or rely on them.

[–]IkWhatUDidLastSummer1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You do not want a sociopath as a soldier, thats for sure..

[–]tairos2 points points [recovered] | Copy

"All that compelling charisma and charm comes from living in a place where you can never show weakness, can never get a need met simply by asking for it, where everything is a game of manipulation and you spend years losing before you ever manage to win. And then you learn you can't actually win what must be offered freely to have any value."

So 21st century America in other words.

[–]rogacrat32 points33 points  (10 children) | Copy

I don't know if I'm a sociopath but I have pretty limited to non-existent emotions now, a bad childhood more death/ trauma later on etc.

I will say this: you're description about how a sociopath operates is pretty accurate if I, or anyone for that matter, actually is one. If this phenomena actually exists at all like people believe. Although dream about dying I don't. Self-preservation is my highest and maybe only value. However the benefits to a cold, calculated outlook are not obsolete. I can very easily tell people at work to pay up or their life will collapse around them whereas other people in the office struggle to be so efficient. Their plights are funny to me - not upsetting. I don't stress eat. I don't stress drink. I don't drink at all. I'm never pressured into helping anyone or attending some community event I'd rather miss. People whose lives I've systematically destroyed out of revenge now curiously suck up to me and compliment me and I can only assume it is the result of respect. People also curiously seem to "click" with me quickly and this is possibly because I'm charismatic (I honestly don't know) or maybe it's because I'm light and easy to be around - no heavy emotion. Essentially, I wouldn't choose more emotion over less.

[–]The-Hardball-Player25 points26 points  (5 children) | Copy

It's funny how people say they want to be "in control of their emotions" and when someone actually becomes "in control of their emotions" they call them a cold-hearted person.

[–]menial_optimist1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

They need to really define what they mean when they say "control of their emotions". Nobody can actually control their emotions in a practical sense. You can suppress them, but that's unhealthy. In one way or another, either immediately or delayed, the emotions we experience will manifest themselves in some manner.

[–]voatgoats5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

Your experience of consciousness is unique. Other people's experiences differ. Please don't project your weakness.

[–]pfffft_comeon5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

What you are and who you are two different things. We're less unique than we pretend. If we weren't, we wouldn't respond to the manipulation tactics that we do.

[–]rogacrat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I think that what you said has the same logic behind it as people encouraging others to be helpful. What they are really saying, in my opinion is, "be helpful towards me because I might need it" and "don't be cold towards me because I may need sympathy". Everything in my estimation is motivated by self-interest. Which is why people who rally against drunk driving are the mothers who don't want to lose any more family members to drunk driving. I'd be surprised to see a "M.A.D.D" meeting from people who live in times square, NY and never drive. The people who want you to have emotions anticipate that they may need to take advantage of your emotions.

[–]cherryCanSuckMyDick7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

People whose lives I've systematically destroyed out of revenge now curiously suck up to me and compliment me and I can only assume it is the result of respect.

While Ive never systematically destroyed anyones life (WTF man?) I can confirm this sort of thing in my life too and I will never understand it.

Guys who disrespect you, treat you like shit in your social circle suddenly act totally different when youve put them in their place in a situation where you're an authority figure. I kicked an SJWs ass when she decided to try to injure me in a social setting, then her friend who had acted like I was a creepy loser for 2 years suddenly started hitting on me aggressively the next time she saw me.

It doesnt make any sense

[–]rogacrat4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's a beautiful thing isn't it? I creatively got someone permanently excluded from a lucrative profession (license revocation) and this person constantly compliments me on my clothing choices now. And my hair and my competency. I enjoy it equally every time. Like you said, women demonstrate this principle even better. If you properly confront a woman, she'll never disagree with you again. It actually makes life so much easier because - you only have to do it once.

[–]Lightspeedius0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

No two people are the same and modern medicine tries to recognise this.

The DSM V is useful in providing a clear way of using these terms while accepting the limited and contentious nature of them. But it will always be limited by being forced to provide clear definitions for insurance and forensic purposes.

I think psychodynamic literature is more effective at capturing the nuances of behaviour and character: psychopathy is a spectrum of behavioural functioning, some of us high on it, some of us low. But all of us with some psychopathic capacity. In psychodynamics a traditional psychopath would likely be someone with high capacity for both psychopathy and narcissism.

I'm not a psychopath, but I can choose to relate solely through power if the need arises.

[–]rogacrat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm with you. I even go father to think that "it" might not exist at all as a tangible diagnosis inasmuch as it is simply, like you said, something that some people have more of and some people have less of but everyone has some of. Even the "coldest psychopaths" can be seen having emotional moments in interviews. Look at the iceman mob killer Richard Kaklinski tear up when he talks about his daughter. Cold blooded contract killer. Misses his kids. I think almost all academics, especially in psyche fields, talk a lot of shit and make up pointless terms because their fields are over-funded and under-performing. Since their diagnosis really don't give us anything profitable or useful (other than more business, meds and studies for them) their terms under free market circumstances could easily be called, "the broad range of human behavioral inclinations for which we can't discern much from".

[–]Phoenixtorment5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy

I don't see the point of this post. And I think you missunderstand the intentions of the dark triad posts. They do not want you to become a sociopath/psychopath at all.

First you say you can't learn it, then you agree traits are helpful.

So why the warning? You either are or you are not. You cannot create childhood trauma by emulating sociopathic traits.

I have the feeling you are victimizing yourself here because you yourself had this bad childhood trauma and struggle.

(no surprising; several comments here are ppl who are in this situation)

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

My take away from it is that people are conflating the occasional success of the sociopath and his near-match of 'good game' personality traits with being something they should emulate when really it's something they should avoid.

I thought the Autistic example illustrated that quite nicely, it can be a bit tricky to get across without a good analogy.

Here is another; if you want to be able to run really fast, you don't necessarily want to start living like a horse.

[–]Phoenixtorment0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Emulating several autistic traits can be very beneficial, such as structure, passion etc

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Emulating traits can be beneficial, emulating having a mental problem is not so beneficial.

[–]The-Hardball-Player13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy

You should not want to be a sociopath.

You should just want to win and let every loser call you a sociopath.

[–]jupiter66666 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

I find it funny how many people talk about the dark triad as if it's something you can just turn on.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I find it funny that they can post about it in all seriousness without a hint of irony.

I mean...come on, be real.

[–]dankvibez16 points17 points  (20 children) | Copy

Nice post OP.

This is what some of this subreddit is coming to though. Most people fail to see that "game" is essentially an arms race. As more discover game, you need to "up" your game. The man that women desire most is a man that isn't very compatible with our society and civilization. Becoming more and more like this "man" is basically just you ditching everything moral in life to get laid.

If you actually follow this dark triad shit, you can call yourself "alpha" all you want. At the end of the day, you were cucked into being a shitty person, because women have more power now to choose mates, and you weren't good enough unless you became someone who was disruptive to society.

This isn't redpills "fault", but it must be realized that redpill is a REACTION, to feminism, and feminism is a reaction to certain technologies. It is natural for men to seek out sex, so they will keep ending up here. In my opinion the solution to this is to figure out ways to stop feminism and I think a lot of people have completely lost sight of that, and instead have become a symptom of this disease.

[–]Cunt_Robber2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy

Well said. And this post was long-awaited among a series of weaker posts that echoed posts in the past. You should be given credit for framing it correctly: feminism was a reaction to something, TRP is a reaction to feminism. What's next? There will always be an idea that challenges the current idea and in doing so moves us all forward, for better or worse.

At the end of the day, TRP is a tool, and it is very malleable to individual preference, personality, etc. You do not need to change into a different person to be successful, you need to improve on what you already have. Small changes in habits, progressive overload in the gym and in other areas of life, and an understanding and love of yourself are key. Throughout history, everyone who has made a name for himself has brought something new and fresh to the table. How you can do that is not by being genuine, but being the best version of your genuine self.

[–][deleted] -5 points-4 points  (5 children) | Copy

Feminism is a commie strategy to undermine social order and the family. Some women are finding out the State as a caretaker is like a vibrator as a lover: it only fills the gap when a person is missing.

[–]Cunt_Robber-1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy

Communism? I thought feminism originated in the west. I doubt people struggling to make ends meet in communist times had time to think of ways to disrupt the social order and tank the most stable thing they could have: a family.

[–]pfffft_comeon4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

that 'commie strategy' wouldn't have been grassroots. it would've be top -> down. not saying i agree, but it could be a good tactic if your strategy is to subjugate.

[–]Cunt_Robber0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

But there were few women at the top back then. And ive never seen anyone on TRP or any anti-feminists blame specific women for starting feminism.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Communism also originated in the west (Carl Marx was "German"). Feminism is definitely a Marxist ideologu, it just replaces class oppression/war with gender oppression/war.

[–]Cunt_Robber0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Feminism may have originated in western Europe but for some reason took hold in Eastern Europe. Maybe you guys know more than me though. It was my belief that feminism started in the west (US, UK) and the 60s/counterculture movement propelled it forward and globalized from there (since a substantial number of generation X and millennials were raised by single mothers). Correct me if im wrong and let me know when/where feminism actually started for future reference please.

[–]stonepimpletilists points points [recovered] | Copy

basically just you ditching everything moral in life to get laid.

whose morals? I notice that all moral things correlate with 'good for women, maybe OK for men, usually not'

Know what moral is? What makes your life better. In TRP sense, getting women, or getting past not knowing how to get women. If you use things to get there, then THAT is moral. Sitting around patting yourself on the back for not getting what you want isn't morality, it's powerlessness.

Nietzchee has gone to great lengths to separate master and slave morality for a reason. The strong do what they can, the weak do what they must. The rest is telling yourself you're a good person when you do it

[–]dankvibez0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy

No, I think morals are things you use to keep civilization/society functioning. A lot of TRP is focusing on modifying your behavior to get laid.

The entire reason women didn't have real power in society for 1000's of years is because they select men to mate with that are not good for keeping society running. This is why things like marriage came about. Societies that didn't do that suffered immensely, and that's why they all adopted it. If you actually took time to think/read what I said, keeping marriage in place actually SUCKS for women, because they want to revert to 80/20 more than men.

If you really want to try to spread this dark triad shit, why don't you just live in a society that has tons of low empathy humans that are alpha as fuck? Maybe some country in Africa? SOOOO many good places there for you to live bro, really great "civilizations" there.

How the fuck do you think all things moral = 'good for women, maybe OK for men, usually not'. How is enforced marriage of 50 years ago good for women? (Now this doesn't exist because society doesn't shame them for getting divorced, having abortions etc, marriage now has become a sham that typically benefits the woman more now, this was not always the case). Marriage used to benefit men much more.

To me redpill is about seeing the truth in everything, and one of those truth's is that while this information does help us get laid, if we don't use what we know about women to modify the laws of society, we are doomed.

[–]stonepimpletilists points points [recovered] | Copy

Are you purposefully retarded?

[–]dankvibez0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy

I guess you gave up on the idea that society can still be modified to benefit men's lives. Society used to be setup to benefit the cogs, now we are risking ourselves becoming some third world country as there is no benefit to be a cog.

It's very possible within our lifetimes we see the results of this. I think entirely for myself as well, I'm just smart enough to realize the social changes brought by all this "sociopathy" talk may be experienced within my own life time. It's only been 57 years since the pill, and look where we are now.

[–]stonepimpletilists points points [recovered] | Copy

So whats your plan? Go find a girl, get married, have 3 kids?

Good luck, looking forward to your field reports on it

[–]dankvibez0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy

No. My plan is to tell other people exactly what I've told you. If everyone had knowledge that women were morally bankrupt, had very little true empathy, and shouldn't be in power, then we could avoid the downward spiral society is experiencing now.

[–]stonepimpletilists points points [recovered] | Copy

Seriously looking forward to a field report of your journey.

I have 99% certainty how this will work out, maybe will be proven wrong

[–]dankvibez0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

I think you don't understand what I am saying, nothing you have said makes much sense in context to what I have wrote. It's almost like you are responding to someone else instead of me.

What is your idea of what a "cog in society" is?

[–][deleted]  (4 children) | Copy


[–]Hviterev4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Why was it removed? This is of high interest to me

[–]-The-Pussy-Whisperer2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Why was this deleted dammit? I see a lot of thought our responses and the op is gone

[–]NeoreactionSafe25 points26 points  (21 children) | Copy


  • The "Left Hand Path" is by it's definition (since it's all symbolic anyway) about manipulating others. It's being fluid in your thinking.


  • The "Right Hand Path" is what we generally call the beta male. This is the guy who is naive and honest (honorable) but his mind is rigid and literal. The beta just can't see the crimes because the fluid nature of the left is invisible to him. He's blind to the left.


So the psychopath / sociopath is just a male who is as criminally minded as a woman.

In a sense all women are sociopaths and lack empathy towards their victims because the "Left Hand Path" must manipulate others in order to survive.

It's the "Middle Path" of stoic masculinity with some Amused Mastery mixed in where a male is able to see the crimes of women and see them as Shit Tests to be defeated through a strong Frame.

We meet in the middle.


[–]Windforce10 points11 points  (3 children) | Copy

I think it gets clearer if we look at it from a game theory point of view.

For this purpose I will be using simple basic poker terminologies:

Women are bluffers, they have inbuilt bluffing mechanisms in order to survive and seek the best possible upbringing environment for their offspring.

Beta males are honest players, they will play their hands according to their value and never do tricky plays, so they are easy to read and are prey for women.

Psychopath / Sociopath are the regulars at casinos, it's their "job", they don't empathize with your losses and don't get excited when they win a big hand, or don't get mad when someone lucks out on them. Because they have seen it and it's mundane for them.

The stoic males are the seasoned players, who have exercised the game theory, put in lots of work in learning the game, understands different types of players, knows how to identify them and play accordingly. They can put on camouflage if needed for the situation.

  • Women are afraid of psychopath / sociopath, because they can't be her prey, so they avoid them at the tables since they know they can't outplay them. But at the same time they want their offspring to be like them, so they won't be prey for other women when they grow up.

  • Beta males hate psychopath / sociopath, because they take their money away (women), and can't figure out their game either.

  • Psychopath / Sociopath don't care about anyone, only their own goals, whatever that might be.

  • Stoic Males are the Swiss knives who can win against all player classes if he wanted to and he can turn into any player type if the situation warrants so.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

You want to use prey, not pray.

[–]Windforce1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Edited, thanks. Always have that mixed up for some reason.

[–]NeoreactionSafe1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy


I like your well described classifications.

Yes, you seem to have the correct understanding.


[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

what's the definition of sociopathic right hand?

[–]NeoreactionSafe0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy


  • "There are no enemies to the right."


The "Left Hand Path" means myth and manipulation.

Fascism and Socialism are both myth creating manipulation systems so technically are both "Left Hand Path" types. Fascism is the male form and Socialism the female form of myth.


  • To move left is towards myth. (Wide Gate)

  • To move right is towards Truth. (Narrow Gate)


The Overton Window always moves left towards mythology. (inverting Natural Law)

Anyone who is saying the Truth is a friend.


Politics in the West has two or more "puppet" politicians controlled by the same masters above them.

The "puppets" generate myths which the people fall for over and over.

Ideally a Free Press (these days the Alt-Media) exposes the myths... the lies.

We expose "Fake News" (CNN, MSNBC, etc) and wake up to the myths being used on us.


Just remember that as one moves towards the "Right Hand Path" you become more rigid and literal, so you run into the problem that Truth can become fossilized and lose it's magic. For Truth to have action it must be used in a way that incorporates the fluid and manipulative powers of myth making.


The magician (who seeks to express Truth) must still work magic.


[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

'Nice guys' are in denial of the fact that all humans who are not worker ants are essentially sociopaths

[–]NeoreactionSafe0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy



There is polarity.

The female is fluid, the beta male rigid.

The masculine man is superior to woman because he has both natures.

A woman when faced with authentic masculinity has no choice but to submit.


[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

According to our evolved biological nature, assuming a person tries not to cover it up with some sort of ideology, or have it warped through faulty role models. But I think there is another level, that the vast majority of people never achieve.

You're touching on Jungian psychology here. When motivated by the spirit that animates us, we are in touch with our feminine aspects (the anima, as men) and women who reach this stage are in touch with their masculine side, or animus. It's not true just for men: women can gain a masculine toolkit and use it to gain personal power. Look no further than Queen Cleopatra, chinese emperor Wu Zetian, or Queen Elizabeth I. Extremely feminine in appearance, but brutally effective, because they fully understood male nature and expressed brutal masculine qualities that were hidden within them. All were objects of desire and had lasting reigns.

The goal is to integrate the female nature by understanding why and how we desire it, why it motivates us, and what we can do to fulfil our natural drives and use the full toolkit we have been granted.

The greatest men use gentleness, protectiveness, chaos and other feminine qualities when they are needed, as the greatest women are consistent, calculating and assertive in addition to their feminine nature. We have a mother imprinted on us, and they have a father imprinted on them, and in addition to driving our sexual desires, these imprints contain qualities we can admire and imitate.

[–]NeoreactionSafe0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy


Women don't rule in the same way as men because they aren't grounded in the Natural Laws.

Women rule like Islam rules... through deception.

Men can rule like the "father" of Christian thought which is the "Middle Path".


[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy


[–]NeoreactionSafe0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy


No... that's not Red Pill at all... or Natural Law for that matter.

Objective reality is a masculine thing bound by a stoic understanding of Truth.

Women ride the "Hamster Wheel of Subjective Happiness and Progress" and use deception to achieve their goals.


  • Masculine - "Reals before Feelz"

  • Feminine - "Feelz before Reals"


[–]aanarchist0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy

you can't be honest without being naive? is it not possible to live an honest life without being a sucker? tbh most people react very poorly to honesty, especially when you're being honest out of concern for them. it's as if there's no choice but to try to manipulate them covertly.

[–]NeoreactionSafe-1 points0 points  (6 children) | Copy


To unify duality (male/female, rigid/fluid) is to be both honest in the sense of following Natural Law and also dishonest in your manipulative Game.

Masculinity is the unity consciousness... the "Middle Path".


  • "Left Hand Path", manipulative, feminine, deceptive, fluid.

  • "Right Hand Path", rigid, literal, male natural (naive), honest.


We know that this polarity exists... we know the extremes.

What is masculine is the Amused Mastery blending of opposite polarities.

The ability to be both rigid and fluid.

Blindness is when you are trapped in either extreme.


  • For women it's called the "Hamster Wheel of Rationalization".

  • For beta males it's the rigid, literal fantasy beliefs of being a Nice Guy™.


A "Middle Path" quote:

John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."


What that means is the "father" (Natural Law) is the path where you go through the Narrow Gate in the "Middle Path". Trying to take other paths on the left or the right is the Wide Gate. The Wide Gate is myth. Only the Narrow Gate leads to Truth. The Narrow Gate is in the middle.

The sheep (beta males) are locked into their rigid myths and blind, but they can be herded by the sheepdog which is a priest of the "Middle Path" unity consciousness.

Wolves come from the "Left Hand Path".

The sheepdog must protect the sheep from the wolves. (psychopaths)

Kill the sheepdogs and all the sheep become victims of the wolves. (Blue Pill mythology)


[–]aanarchist0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

when i have some sort of banned substance in my body that middle road is pretty easy. feels like i process time and reality at a faster rate therefor able to make actions and decisions that seem both honest as well as fluid in a way that benefits me as well as others. amused mastery pretty hard while sober though like there's something that holds me back.

[–]NeoreactionSafe0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy


LSD or mushrooms?

That's a quick way to turn a "stiff" into a guy that understands the fluid side of reality.

They had a History Channel series on the War on Drugs and talked about the MkUltra programs by the CIA to use LSD as a control drug but it actually does the opposite and wakes you up. (makes you question everything)

However, it's a bit harsh to go from "Blue Pill normal" to having all reality bending based on your own dreams within an hour or two.

The Red Pill is best done gradually and in steps so that people have time to process what they are awakening to.

LSD can simply fry your brains if you let it.

It should not be a recreational drug.


[–]aanarchist0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

yea i've done lsd once. weed does a decent job opens me up just enough without uprooting me completely. i've done ecstasy once too and that wasn't a mind altering experience so much as made me let go of lingering pain i was holding onto, albeit temporarily. having lsd in my system wasn't a harsh experience so much as it felt like i was home. when i first came under its influence it was scary and i was paralyzed because of of i guess all the sensory input flooding me, i felt like i was neo and my friend was morpheus heh. after i got my bearings though i felt like i had psychic powers like i was able to will my friend to move as i wished just by directing my eyesight at him. my mind was racing with ideas like what you can accomplish if you can maintain such a mindset. honestly it's scary the idea that there would be other people capable of manipulating people like that, but without any moral structure or ethics or respect for life keeping their actions in check. i never considered any of the substances i've taken as sheer recreation, like everything has to be done with a purpose of some sort. that was at least 2 years ago and i'd like to try it again soon, i can honestly say that if i'd never tried any of those substances that i'd still be stuck in a blue pill rigid mindset. i guess the risk of frying your brain comes with having a bunch of information flood your brain for a consistent amount of time and no way or desire to process it, it sounds like you might just have things stick that you don't even know are there, leave damage that you may not be aware of, the blue pill.

i feel like when i reach that middle road i'll have moments when i start to lean left understanding that people often are the manipulated when they are not the manipulator, then after something goes down i'll revert to right sided thinking for the sake of safety. keeping your perception rigidly structured means outside influences are less likely to permeate your consciousness, although you're banishing yourself to a slow spiritual death due to lack of new information coming in.

[–]NeoreactionSafe0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy


It's a balance between being too rigid and being too fluid.

Women get entirely lost in their Hamster Wheel fluidity and can reinvent their perception of reality so fast they don't know who they are.

It's good to be "down to earth", but not "stuck in the mud".


[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Matthew 7:13-14

[–]NeoreactionSafe0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy


That's one of the best, most descriptive, quotes in the bible.

Clearly it shows that objective reality is the "least traveled" of the ways you can go.

Most people are Blue Pill and follow myths... which can be infinite in misdirections.


[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

OP has a basic fundamental misunderstanding about the relationship between the dark triad and the red pill that is raised AGAIN and AGAIN by newer members who don't really grasp the idea and think there's some weird sort of sub-cult to turn people into psychopaths in order to get pussy.

This is the basic, misinformed level of understanding the ignorant possess.

These misinformed, moralising concern threads recur for 2 reasons:

1 - ignorance, doesn't understand the dark triad, doesn't understand why it's relevant, thinks mention of it is advocacy for psychopathy or "becoming Frank Underwood".

2 - moralising - hates the idea that women like and are often extremely attracted to bad/immoral people, and doesn't think men should strive to become bad/immoral people just so they can be successful with women.

At no point has it been said "become a sociopath".

What has been said is this, and these basic precepts of the red pill should not need to be restated for the thousandth time but they do, because too many new people don't bother taking the time to understand the things they disparage.

  • Women are attracted to highly psychopathic/sociopathic/egotistical/calculating men - aka, men high in dark triad characteristics (there is even academic literature to back this up for those that care)

  • There are traits that these individuals have, such as fearlessness, strategicness, and egoism, and you can emulate these traits to a degree to increase your life success. THIS IS NOT THE SAME AS BECOMING A SOCIOPATH.

At your nearest leisure, please refer to the following:

You personally get to pick which parts of the red pill you like and will use, and which you don't, but you don't get to dictate what parts other people take. The dark triad is an integral part of TRP and conflating it with learning sociopathy so you can dismiss it is unhelpful even if well-intentioned.

[–]PrimaxAUS2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

The best thing about the red pill is that I no longer lie away at night worrying about the things I've done, or I haven't done.

I work a lot harder now - at work, at my study after hours, and at the gym - and it all pays off.

Due to the above my life is headed on the right trajectory, and it's great. I'm making 4x what I was a few years ago, I dropped 15kg and stacked on a bit of muscle, and I have a couple of interview offers a week as opposed to desperately looking for work. I did this by being more selfish and prioritizing building my life, rather than hanging out wasting money with others or being too generous with my time otherwise.

This is the good stuff about TRP - owning your life and the problems in it, rather than blaming it on the world.

That said, the dark triad stuff I think is an overreaction to controlling a problem a lot of people have - being overly nice to their own detriment. They realise they have a problem by being pushily nice all the time. Instead of realizing that they need to be more 'neutral' by being slightly selfish (to focus on yourself), they overreact into trying to be a sociopath.

I honestly don't think I could do it. Like I said in the opening line - I sleep like a baby now. lf I was being dark triad, I'd be lying in bed at night feeling like a piece of shit. What's the point of that if I get what I want by walking the high road?

[–]BrokenPhoneBooth0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Great point. The only reason I lurk in this sub is to glean what little self improvement info is here and for motivation. The more I read though the more I see toxic people posting garbage about how to take advantage of people in a way that diminishes their humanity. It's pretty disturbing tbh.

[–]brotherhood-of-man2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I get more respect when I act sociopath, and I can't care less about the human connection.

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

All that compelling charisma and charm comes from living in a place where you can never show weakness, can never get a need met simply by asking for it, where everything is a game of manipulation and you spend years losing before you ever manage to win.

I hear your overall message and wanted to highlight this particular paragraph. This is basically a description of being a man.

  • Can't show weakness: weak men are despised
  • Can't ask for things: men need to demonstrate value in order to get things
  • Everything is a game of manipulation: recognizing the game of manipulation is how TRP started
  • Spend years losing before you manage to win: this is the experience of most young men

It's almost as if society is driving us to become sociopaths.

Again, I agree with your overall message: adapt the sociopathic behaviors that benefit you but don't become one on the inside. Know when to turn the behaviors on and off.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy


[–]PM_ME_UR_TECHNO_GRRL5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy

But sociopaths are born of an abusive childhood

This is not definitive actually. Research apparently seems to indicate that nurture can instigate sociopathic traits, but the underlying neurology is already there and needs no triggering. Because there are many cases of seemingly normal upbringing delivering psychopaths all the same.

This stuff takes decades to heal, if you're lucky enough to heal at all. The scars never leave.

Sociopathy has a negative connotation, but the notion that psychopathy or sociopathy are consequences of detrimental upbringing, requiring healing to overcome is, again, not in line with research. Granted, I myself am no expert - I have read four books on the topic, currently on my fifth one - but they all agreed on this point. These conditions are consequences of abnormal neurology, which is not something anyone has found a predictable way of "healing" yet.

[–]Dokkobro2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

You're correct, I think he was referring more to those who lash out in seemingly uncaring manners left and right who aren't actually sociopathic.

Sociopathic traits can definitely be learned or made into habits, like when my father starts calling me motherfucker I just turn off, I could have been trying to open up about how I'm feeling, and then snap "Fuck it, I'm out, see you when you sober up." I agree you are either born numb, or you are not, and that's something I would wish upon no one. This thread is fucking me up like a really weird introspective acid trip.

[–]PM_ME_UR_TECHNO_GRRL0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I hope you are getting the help you need. I don't know how severe the issue is, because I don't know you. I am thirty, and only around August last year did I get any reasonable help on the massive emotional baggage that I have been carrying around, and the work is nowhere near done yet. I wish I had this earlier on.

[–]RatioRegnum[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

You are correct. Having said that, there is a strong correlation between abuse and sociopathy. I'm not a mental health professional, but for various reasons have had to go in-depth with a decent number of such personalities. I can sometimes pick it up in a photograph.

One possible key is simply the cuddling (or lack of it) babies receive. A former girlfriend had the total Single White Female experience with a room-mate - turned out the poor girl had had some trauma as a baby that put her in a body cast for three months. Involved criminal psychiatrist predicted that or something similar prior to discovering it was true.

Healing may be the wrong word - maybe "learning to function and connect better"

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Having parents addicted to drugs and being punched and screamed at daily as a kid and having to act like nothing happens when I go to school and having to achieve high grades and have a smile every day in front of my friends became so tiring that I stopped giving a fuck about bullies and just feel like a withered husk. People think I'm a weeb and see me as a recluse but its because I'm tired of living my life (I dont want to kill myself I just want to grow up and get away from this house) that I dont want to make friends besides the ones that I have. I care about my parents but shit man it hurts I just wanted to grow up like a regular kid but I'm already nearly an adult and I know I'll never have it and I wouldnt want to have kids because of what I am today, I'd just grow old and die alone so I wouldnt hurt anyone and I thank gaming so much because its my getaway from my shitty life. But yeah being a sociopath and having nearly no emotion isnt cool, sure you dont feel emotions in situations where a normal person should but it comes at a traumatizing event in your life that ruined that innocent smile you once had and would have wanted to share but you're too scared to be vulnerable to do it because of all those events in your life that just burdened you so much at such a young age.

Edit: There's a difference between being smart and pragmatic from a sociopath just to destroy that misconception. You can be smart and pragmatic without being a heartless person.

2nd Edit: I guess it sounds edgy af but I never accepted being a sociopath and thought that I was just being emo but I started accepting it when I started dating someone. I never felt those thrill of youth, the rush, the adrenaline, the high you get that people say when you're in love instead I just felt like a game where I just had to say the right words and they would fawn over you along with acting the emotions instead of feeling it. She did become my girlfriend but when I realized how big of a piece of shit I am I broke up with her and am glad she's with a genuinely good guy. People would say "Man, you looked good together" when we broke up but I said we just didnt connect so the question on my friends head would clear up on why such a person who is studying hard and a genuine guy on the front (but an asshat on the shadow) break up with a girl.

Being single is fun though, got more time to play

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

For those interested in personality theory:

  • Sociopaths score very low on trait Agreeableness (giving a shit about people and being considerate)
  • add in low Conscientiousness (duty, social carefulness, low scores associated with ADHD) and high Neuroticism (sensitivity to negative emotion, understands the dark nature of reality, quick to understand what hurts them and therefore others) and you have your typical criminal psychopath. They might also have high Openness (creative intelligence) particularly if aspergers or schizo, a these tend towards the combination described
  • the Red Pill man ought to be high in Extraversion, the dimension of positive emotion and social leadership. It also makes you happy. Low agreeableness is the common factor here. You do NOT want the other 2 traits

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Speaking of autism...

The goal isn't to actually be a medically diagnosable sociopath. It's to cultivate the ability to emulate certain sociopathic traits for the purpose of getting women to fuck you.

Women are attracted to [some] sociopathic traits. Not to medically diagnosable sociopaths. Duh.

[–]precisionclear2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Sociopaths and Psychopaths are no longer being made as a distinction but have been combined as "antisocial personality disorder." Really nice post OP. Just wanted to point this out, that social psychology is as ephemeral as ever. Maybe in another revision of the DSM manual, they will stop suggesting that 2 year old boys get prescribed with ADD medication.

[–]IkWhatUDidLastSummer0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yes you still distinguish between the two, they just both fall into that category, they are different, however.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

On top of all this it is also well established that sociopaths have an entirely different brain chemistry and brain structure from others. It is not a desirable thing. Who wants to torture kittens as a kid and get a life sentence as an adult?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Dammnit man.

Stop trying to become my favourite EC with your consistently well-thought-out contributions, brevity of reply and poignant advice.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I think you might misunderstand. When speaking about the Dark Triad, the goal is not to BECOME a sociopath. Anybody who speaks about becoming one is a moron who is missing the point. The ultimate goal is EMULATION of dark triad traits. Not actually becoming one. I have Sadism on the Macdonald triad and let me say it's not all it's cracked up to be.

[–]wheresMYsteakAt1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I dunno, I was talking to your psych. She said you were a latent border line...

[–]BOBBYTURKAL1NO1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Dont forget being 100% confused by the most simple human emotions. You may learn how to react as time goes on but understanding the level of emotions felt by others still to this day makes me lay in bed for hours trying to work out just what happend to make someone react that way emotionally. Example: My cat dies... I get a new cat. I feed it and pet it and it loves me because I take care of it. Same as all cats. Someone else has a cat die. Lets say its a coworker. She takes 3 days off work and in return cant stop crying while taking down pictures of the animal in her work space. I offer to get her a new kitten because my buddy just had a cat whom had kittens. She in turn calls me heathen and a psychopath. I understand none of that response. NONE OF IT. Not the sadness the crying or the anger towards me trying to solve the issue. Ive had people explain it to me in the past and co-workers try to tell me what I did was wrong... f me right? I just wanted her to shut her mouth so I could work in peace. stupid cat

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

As someone who's been diagnosed with anti social personality disorder and borderline personality disorder (different doctors, personally I'm aware that I'm fucked up but not sure which category I fit under): op is 100% correct.

There are many ways that I am 'naturally' red pill and I've always had a lot of success with women due to the calculated, ruthless and selfish aspects of my social interactions with others but there is an enormous downside: it's only recently (after discovering and internalizing the pill for a couple of years now) that I have begun to form 'real' friendships. These friendships are not real in the sense that most people will understand, in fact I still am unable to differentiate between people who want to fuck me and people who just enjoy my company (yes, even with dudes).

These friendships are different for me in that I now follow rules that would seem incredibly obvious to most people - I help my friends, I make myself available if they need me, I attend events that they arrange and invite them places with me etc. I know: I sound like a retard, and that's because part of me is retarded. I lack many traits and values that I now am forced to fake as I've come to the understanding that behaving in a way that is natural for me has resulted in extreme isolation from many of those around me and historically led me to only have shallow and pointless friendships based on mutual patterns of unhealthy behaviours.

Again - sure, I get girls. Not to brag but it's literally so easy for me that I've invented numerous arbitrary rules to exclude girls from the possibility of a trip to bone town simply in order to thin out the herd: but if I were to follow my instincts they would eventually lead me to an incredibly lonely, dark place, I will likely never experience many wonderful parts of human existence as I simply lack the necessary traits.

I'm eternally grateful to this community for the help I've received, much more so in starting to become a better man than with any of the sex stuff. Tbh that was all pretty much just 'yeah, no shit' for me, whereas explanations relating to a man's honor, the importance of keeping your word, personal ethics etc have been incredibly helpful.

[–][deleted]  (5 children) | Copy


[–]KnowBrainer-2 points-1 points  (4 children) | Copy

I identify as a sociopath but have avoided any formal diagnosis because career opportunities close once labeled. I've definitely had my share of abuse.

It's not that I can't feel empathy, it's just that I can compartmentalize and ignore it. Or maybe I don't feel it in the moment, but only upon later reflection.

Does that resonate with you? Like, I stabbed Reuben through his hand because it was the most effective way to keep him off my half of the desk. I knew it would hurt him. I knew he'd feel bad.

I just have none of the greed most people seem to tag as a co-requisite to sociopathy. I don't really lie or manipulate, but I might steal. I don't use charm, but I fight (to the KO) if I'm not getting my way.

Is that sociopathy or something different?

[–]wheresMYsteakAt2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Is that sociopathy or something different?

Fake stories to gain attention? Sounds more like HPD.

[–]KnowBrainer-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Not sure what hpd is, but it's a true story. There's a scar out there somewhere to prove it.

[–]bluedrygrass0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's called being a human. Phisically hurting people when they cross boundaries is not the trait of a sociopath, no matter how much you desire it.

[–]Endorsed ContributorUEMcGill1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy

Hmm I thought Redpill was amoral?

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (7 children) | Copy

You aren't getting what he's trying to say - he's not talking about morality, he's talking about the grim consequences of pursuing a particular mindset that is usually forged in childhood.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy


[–]Phoenixtorment0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

What grim consequences? There are none described in the OP.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Here let me go and fetch it for you so you can read it for the first time.

All that compelling charisma and charm comes from living in a place where you can never show weakness, can never get a need met simply by asking for it, where everything is a game of manipulation and you spend years losing before you ever manage to win. And then you learn you can't actually win what must be offered freely to have any value.

[–]FreeRadical50 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Unhappiness, lack of satisfaction, absence of any kind of real internal reward.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy

OP's points are strategic, not moral.

[–]Arabian_Wolf0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I was physically and mentally abused by my domineering mother and autistic 15 years older than me brother.

I totally forgave my mother since my father was passive and she was just confused, lost soul that needs a man, a husband to lead her, she could divorce my father and leave him but she is staying with us, she even paid bits to build my abusive brother a villa so he can settle in it after he is married (he got married 15 years ago and has 5 children), she had breast cancer tumor that got removed few months ago, now she is on chemotherapy on the last doses, all hair fell down, and with it the fundamentals of our household.

Brother on the other hand, a month or so ago also abused me verbally in front of my father to the point of threatening my of "untold things" I ignored him to let my father have evidence as I am cutting my brother off completely (told my father about it, he said I'll regret it).

Although my brother never have major influence in my life other than making me feel sociopathic, perhaps psychopath as well.

I plan to get married once I land a job and my brother isn't invited to my wedding, my parents and relative make a big deal out of it but I am standing true to my words, I can't let this guy near my kids once I have them, as he tend to physically abuse anyone weaker than him when he gets a reason to do so, but runs away like chicken or just blurp random sentences.

Still living with parents but after marriage will move out and will restart my life from what I already have.

I am unable to develop deep relationships as well, always has a wall on me.

29 years old guy here.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Yes I agree with you 100%.

Sometimes a false dichotomy gets established whereby people claim "You must do this if you want to be y" but that's completely bogus, as you say, you can learn to be more outgoing and charismatic, even outcome-independent and spontaneous, without trying to emulate a person with mental health problems.

Sounds like you really know your stuff. Social worker perhaps?

[–]straittripping0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

People commonly conflate sociopathy and emotional control.

[–]blot_out0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Sociopaths are not made as you suggest. They're born that way.

[–]HerrV0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Good post. It has its ups and downs but mostly downs

[–]Mudpielol0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You need other people in your life, otherwise you're dead. At some point people will catch on of your ways and won't interact with you anymore. Sure, you can move around, question is for how long?

[–]Draskinn0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I once tried to play a character as a sociopath in a D&D campaign. It was surprisingly hard to try to filter every decision through the lens of "how does this benefit me first".

[–]pn_me_your_dick0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

people just say they are sociopaths because they think they are cool then

[–]Urishima0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Ok, I only lurk here every now and then, so seems like I missed what caused this.

Are there honestly knuckleheads here who think that sociopathy is a desirable state of mind? I have no words...

[–]Lightspeedius0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Note: Sociopaths and psychopaths are not the same thing. For the purposes of this post, they are close enough to be treated as one.

The DSM V states the difference being an environment or genetic source. And that the basis for determining whether it's one or the other is contentious and not widely agreed upon.

Great post.

[–]circlhat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

All that intriguing darkness comes from a real and deep urge to self-destruction.

No once again ,you are defining people, you aren't a mind reader, this is blue pill and female 101. Red pill is about understanding the world, if women sleep with dark triads it's worth the discussion.

Own your masculinity and rock her world in bed.

All about her pleasure, nothing about yours, blue pill article , not surprised as blue pill is very logical and rational

But sociopaths are born of an abusive childhood.

Not really? This is like saying women only like bad boys , humanity is complex, but you have put everyone in a simplistic box, and created arbitrary rules , from an evolutionary context the goal in life is to reproduce , it's best to study the world as a hole and get rid of the black and white concept and focus on the grey.

This stuff takes decades to heal, if you're lucky enough to heal at all. The scars never leave.

Nothing is wrong with you, that is the only thing you need to realize as a person

[–]aanarchist0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

can confirm as a recovering sociopath. you do not want to be a sociopath, and it's idiotic to glorify it just because unstable women are attracted to it, that's the epitome of putting pussy on a pedestal when you put a woman over your mental health. there is a difference between stoicism and sociopathy, one is a man ahead of the curve, the other is a coward who can't look in the mirror.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I think I am a psychopath and sociopath. I can really relate with the abusive background as a child.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Nice armchair psychology, sociopathy is genetic not learned, sure its possible to stunt development but the way someone reacts to trauma (a small beating is hardly trauma) is genetic. Everything boils down to genetic codes.

[–]zfighter180 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Seriously, I like to think that being a sociopath is fun but on occasion, it is strangely close to being depressed.

You very rarely care about anything. I know that people that would be devastated if their whole family up and died. Me? I'm not sure I could keep up feeling sad for longer than a day or two.

After a certain point, some emotions are just exhausting.

[–]Awes300meness0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Why was this shit deleted not I'll never get to read it. Most likely a laugh.

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[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

Thats called being a teenager buddy... we've all felt that way at one point or another. And how far has it gotten you at 17? A career? Assets? please share. Not trying to piss on you, but please elaborate.

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[–]Dokkobro0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Start selling cars motherfucker. 🤙

[–]Dokkobro3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Love is real dawg. I wouldn't be saying this to you if it wasn't. We all come from the same lifesource. Some of us have rockier rides in this life, but as a very wise friend once told me. "It's best if you can always remember we aren't people thinking, we are thoughts peopling." Everything ends, this life, this universe, etc. I'll tell you right now love doesn't. Who I have loved, I will always love. That goes for everything from my smallest pet, Pete the Praying Mantis, to heroes of combat who gave their lives I've never met, but have prayed for their eternal rest and felt reciprocation, to that fucking whore who cheated on me. I still love her, no I'll never be with her again, but I can choose to remember the good times and know that it was good while it lasted.

All that being said, I'm not trying to argue, I'm just trying to show you a glimpse of my perception. Logically, scientifically, love is a chemical. Spiritually, love is forever. Both are possible.

[–]Spacemanspiff3331 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Being a sociopath might get you remembered after death, but remembered for something positive and remembered in an adoring way is not likely. I've done the whole "do whatever it takes to get what you want, without consideration of anyone else" thing and it left me empty and lonely. I have changed since then. Don't strive to be without empathy, in my eye that's the easy way out. It's more difficult, however, much more rewarding earning what you strive for while also considering others. Empathy is an extremely healthy human emotion, people are social creatures, it's a surviving mechanism and even though it makes decisions tougher it's a leadership characteristic that every alpha should exhibit.

[–]420KUSHBUSH1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Same age as you. I completely agree with fearlessness getting you far in life

I've always had god awful empathy and lied whenever it benefited me and hurt people sometimes because it amused me. I didn't care that much for anyone in my entire life until recently. Now I've gone back and made amends with people I did bad by except her for now, or I might not ever get the chance to patch things up, as much as I pray I can get redemption

Let me preface this by saying I'm not an actual sociopath, most notably because I don't do drugs and where a sociopath believes "a warm hole is just a warm hole" I only prefer intimacy from women. With that being said I feel like a spaceman among martians when talking to people

Believe me when I say this because I can speak from first hand and this goes to all of you, you do not want to be a sociopath nor mimic being a sociopath

Also another important thing to note, as OP said, wanting to develop traits that are detrimental to you just to attract women is a) batshit stupid & b) goes against trying to improve ones self for the sake of becoming the best version of themselves they can be

I'm glad I'm becoming a good person and people recognize that too because a few weeks ago I thought I was inherently evil. I wouldn't wish the emotional distress I had to go through and some of which I still experience on anybody ever

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[–]420KUSHBUSH0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

By emotional distress I meant me realizing that I've caused pain and hurt people close to me and someone I cared about and it hit me like a brick wall and I regretted doing that and wanted to fix all of it

I would argue, as you would too, that many people have become so toxic in this day and age that they are borderline sociopathic and yes, we are almost all selfish for the most part

[–]Hltchens0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

What's wrong with being needed? That's good IMO. That's the best sign that you have value.

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[–]Dokkobro-1 points0 points  (7 children) | Copy

Oh it's possible. It's also whatever. Been there, done that, girls with silver spoons are avoided now. I want a woman, not a spoiled girl who can't take a stout "No.".

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[–]wheresMYsteakAt0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Wait until you deal with in-laws and look back on this and chuckle.

[–]Dokkobro0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Too bad he's a drunk and divorced her mom after choking the fuck out of her. Just saying. More money more problems.

Those who think they can always get what they want react rather adversely when shit gets fucked off.

Also, money is evil. Time and love is everything, and you don't need to be rich to be happy at all.

That being said, I love my pontoon boat.

[–]jm510 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You can end up in a gilded cage.

Guy I knew married for money. He was a few years younger than me and she had a daughter that was older than me.

She became insanely jealous. He learned to stare at his feet while out walking with her, less arguments.

[–][deleted] -5 points-4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Speak for yourself concern troll:

Women find sociopaths very exciting. Companies reward sociopaths with promotions and big bonuses.

Being a nice guy doesnt work

[–]Blaat19851 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

There is a huge area between being a nice guy and being a sociopath. Those two are polar opposites on the spectrum. And besides, you can't fake being a sociopath. You're either are on or you're not. It's hardwired.

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[–]tallwheel3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Agreed. This is concern trolling. No reason not to emulate traits which people find attractive and charismatic.

[–]99SuperFan990 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Becoming a sociopath to get women isn't badass. Being your true self and doing whatever you want, not stressing over a damn thing people think of you. That's badass. You just gotta take risks and put yourself out there. Sociopaths take risks. Girls are out there. If you knew how many opportunities you've lost wimping out, you'd rethink your entire life

It seems impossible so do it for the adrenaline rush. The feeling I get after asking a girl out, regardless of her response... my heart beats, my hands shake, terror rushes through my body. It feels awesome and then once it's done I feel good cuz i know I had the balls. That said, if we do go out, I will fuck with her head in whatever way entertains me in the moment. I'm not a sociopath. I just don't love these hoes.

[–]TheSlicemanCometh0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

ITT people conflating sociopathy and extreme stoicism.

OP is right, sociopathy is not something to be desired.

Although extreme selfishness and stoicism I would say are RP qualities that will greatly help you in life.

[–]qiang_shi0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

All that compelling charisma and charm comes from living in a place where you can never show weakness, can never get a need met simply by asking for it, where everything is a game of manipulation and you spend years losing before you ever manage to win. And then you learn you can't actually win what must be offered freely to have any value.

Nice try. But this is how the strong survive, none of this makes you a sociopath.

You sound like a socialist crying for free shit.

[–]jumpinglane0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

self-made sociopathy is the pinnacle of society in this ego-addicted, self-absorbed, narcisstic century. there is absolutely no good reason to aim for this mindset and it is NOT masculine. rather, it says: i am afraid of getting hurt so you all better do not touch me. it is WEAK and DISHONEST TO YOUR INNER YEARNINGS. it is the way of the COWARD.

[–]ScrumTumescent0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

"Life isn't about sex. Life is about children, and passion, and spirit! It's not about fucking and balls and pussy. It's about love. It's about people. It's about connection.

It's not about tossing salad. It's not about cock and ass and tits.And butt hole pleasures. It's not about these rusty trombone, and dirty sanchez. It's not about rainbow showers and camel-toe slide, and your Cincinnati bowtie, your Arabian goggles or the hot carl and pearl necklace, or pussy juice cocktails, and the jagged-head dildos, and the double-decker pussies. Shit stained balls, and cum swapping, and the hanging brain, it's not about the rattlesnake wiggle, and the alligator fuck house, donkey-punching, the tea-bagging..." -Mooj

[–]DaftMD0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I don't really get the point of this post. The main point that make psychopaths interesting, is their great potential for ruthless and selfish gain, without any moral restrictions. It is hypothesized that this mainly had to do with their inability to feel empathy, I will get back to this later. Getting ahead ain't pretty at times, and most people are socially programmed to do the moral right thing, while they are in fact the stronger actor in a situation. Being weak just for the sake of morality just doesn't make any sense, within legal boundaries.

So the big difference with mentally sound people and psychopaths is the ability to feel empathy. But that's the beauty of it. By learning dark triad traits, one could increase their efficiency in parts of their life, while balancing this out with, what I would call, the human experience that you described. Kevin Dutton (the wisdom of psychopaths), provides a nice example of a lawyer, who would ruthlessly reduce a victim to tears in court, just to win his case, but be nervous in his personal life, when he had to bargain with a manager while returning a damaged warehouse item. Getting what you want by switching off your moral compass for a bit could get you farther in life than you ever dreamed. But because of your edge over real psychopaths by feeling empathy, you can just as much enjoy life as a normal human being, without all the mental bagage you linkt of these traits.

Of course, you should be mentally balanced. But I would not go as far to spread fear about adopting amoral traits. Sexual strategy is amoral, after all.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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