Be the Man You Want To Be. Let the Pieces Fall Where They May.

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August 27, 2017


I remember around 2012 I had just got dumped and cheated on by my girlfriend while we were on vacation together and wound up in a relationship with some local alpha bro who was a much better catch than me. I was angry, sad, feeling hopeless and full of self-hatred. I had nothing other than a minimum wage job. My mother a narcissistic alcoholic who I lived with and took advantage of my good nature, and a father who would treat me like an emotional punching bag and also take advantage of my good nature. My friends were all losers too who didn't respect me and the ones that weren't losers distanced themselves from me. I was depressed hardcore, and borderline feeling quite suicidal. It seemed like no one respected or cared for me. Every girl I ever gained the interest of quickly left me. I started to finally realize why all those psychos who go postal.. The unbearable weight of social isolation. Then I found TRP.


In my time since then, I have grown so much as a person. I went through the anger phase where I read a bunch of garbage about going MGTOW, the struggles of incel-dom, and blame women for not wanting to date my pathetic ass.. For a while I even enjoyed the isolation and found comfort in posting and reading misogynistic rants.. But then I got a gym membership and learned to lift and the practice/therapy of lifting helped ease the pain of my depression, lose my beer gut and get some muscle tone-age (note: lifting didn't make my depression magically go away.. It merely takes your mind off it and overtime will condition you to simply just focus on the now rather than dwelling on every misfortune in your life.. The hours I spent at the gym were just hours of mental clarity and focus on the present) and also reinforce the mindset of "I am not a victim." I re-enrolled in college, and got my Associate's degree while working full time in a restaurant so I could pay by the month for my classes on no debt and transferred to a prestigious school I never thought would accept me with a generous scholarship and additional grants. I started to get a better taste in fashion and dress better despite my peers making dumb "that shirts gay" comments because it's not a black tee shirt with a death metal band logo on it. I started pushing my limits with exercising and ran a mile just shy of 6:30 as a personal record; while not olympian standard-I never thought in my life I would be able to do this. I always saw myself as a "victim of circumstance". I started to get more confident with physicality.. This summer I climbed the highest mountain I had ever climbed-6,300 feet. I recently got back into skateboarding-a childhood/teenage hobby of mine and learning through youtube videos and I've progressed at it more in a few months approaching it via a red pill mindset than all my years skating around as a chubby depressed teenager.. I'm also more ballsy with doing tricks and less of a bitch about getting hurt. I've been pushing myself in my artistic pursuits for the past 5 years or so (what I study in college) and have reached heights in my creative ability/career I never thought would exist for a person like me. I recently decided to go vegan because I don't like the politics of the meat industry, animal torture, and using animals' reproductive systems in manufacturing products. I've been getting SO MUCH better at cooking, living a healthier lifestyle consuming a plant based diet and it's opened up a new dating market for me- hipster vegan chicks.

I became my "confident self". I finally learned what it feels like to be happy with ones' self and content in ones' skin. Other peoples' opinions of me and what I do with my life don't matter cause most of them are crab ass haters anyway. This weird epiphany happened to me the other night as I was skating and bombing down a hill trying to get more comfortable on my board. It was a moment of pure joy. Something money can't buy, something a wicked ex-wife/ex-partner can't take from you in a divorce. I think it might be what the buddhists call "nirvana". I just felt suspended in this ongoing wave of existence.. Simply acknowledging the nature of the essence and riding it out in peaceful harmony and balance. Realizing that no matter what happens to me riches, poverty, divorce, happily-ever-after.. I will survive and prosper as the man I want to be and be able to smile in any circumstance. I felt tears as I rode down the hill. I felt like I've found that feeling or esoteric understanding I've been seeking all my life.. Whatever it is.

As a result, I've noticed a HUGE spike in female attraction/attention in the last few years. Most of the chicks I've gamed are somewhere in the 5-7 range which is okay for me I don't need a super model looking girlfriend.. I'm happy with a cute face, big butt, feminine grace/demeanor, and cooking skills. I've had plenty of flings, short term girlfriends, one night stands etc.. So much to the point where I don't really seek those relationships out anymore and just let them happen when I'm horny or just naturally let a relationship flourish toward commitment with a girl I enjoy hanging out and having sex with rather than labeling things and feeling disappointed when I mislabel them or things don't pan out to my expectations (a no reservation approach I guess?). I stopped thinking about "alpha vs. beta" or thinking about how I'm 5'8" and my handsome friend who is 6'2" could easily steal that chick from me and similar insecurities that lurk in the depths of our minds. I simply just began living in the moment and doing things I enjoy that in turn-are attractive to women. Instead of sugar coating everything or pretending something doesn't bother me, I state my mind clearly and honestly to women without feeling the need to insult or reprimand them like my ego would suggest before.

I am the person I wish to be. I like myself. I think I'm a catch compared to most guys and if a woman doesn't like me for who I am? That's fine, there's probably some guy she's more compatible with for her and a woman who's more compatible for me. Some chicks want to go in their boyfriend's giant pickup truck to country fest and some want to see some noise band play in the basement of some hipster pad clouded in weed smoke.


Let the pieces fall where they may and blaze your own trail up Mt. Alpha. The view into my lifestyle might not resonate with a lot of red pillers here.. And that's fine because we're all unique little snowflake millenials who have different interests, pursuits, passions, from different cultural and national backgrounds. I skateboard, am an avid lover of music and art, an artist, musician, and am passionate about veganism. Most of you would probably call me a faggot and that's fine because for every feminist banging tofu eating art fag riding his skateboard through campus there's a bud light chugging chad thundercock frat bro who has slooty stacy (beta bob's GF) roped to the bedpost begging for permission to cum.

You might be a frat bro, a skater dude, a sheltered indian kid, an oboe player in a jazz quintet.. Whatever, just own it! Fear and insecurities-constantly asking "what should I say?" "how should I act?!" is totally dodging the point of learning from experience in the field.. These are the type of questions where sensei whacks you on the noggin with his bamboo cane and tells you to go meditate for 3 more hours and come back. Insecurity is a useless emotions that stem from one having no personal convictions in life (e.g.. instead of fearing your girlfriend is cheating on you, your mindset should be "I don't commit to women or stay with women I can't trust"). You need to get metaphorically kicked in the balls and dumped in the mud by your ex girlfriend, delete that number and go NC. You need to lose in order to learn how to win. To focus on things step by step and take joy in every slight improvement. What you and I have gone through is what every man goes through in life-rich or poor, pain and suffering is good for you. It makes you tough, smart, and resilient. It causes you to think and stand for things or deal with the unfortunate circumstances of being a spineless coward and getting cuck'd one way or another or even worse, not ever reaching your true potential in life or spending your days in this mortal life doing what you were meant to do.

Then women just naturally float in and out of your romantic life depending on how social you are.. No matter if you're a broke ass loser living in your car or a wall street executive.

PS: I've been thinking about making this post for a while and wanted to get it out there before the oncoming tidal wave of fall semester coursework. To all the incoming college freshman, welcome to the beginning of your adult life! To all returning for the fall semester.. Give it hell! Good luck folks.

Post Information
Title Be the Man You Want To Be. Let the Pieces Fall Where They May.
Author biggerbetterjobs
Upvotes 784
Comments 71
Date 27 August 2017 11:00 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Original Link
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[–]Visionary_Bilic105 points106 points  (13 children) | Copy

Hey man, thanks for this post. It really resonated with me, especially the part about not having any real convictions, and this leading to all your fears and insecurities that govern your life instead.

Also more specifically, the part about letting your girl know what disappoints you without letting your ego dictate the need to insult her or make her feel bad about herself. I'm not sure what, but there's some synergy I'm searching for and this post contains it.

The ego is a problem for me. And I need to address it. And also my drinking. I drink too much. These are not things a younger me would have wanted for myself. But I digress...

There's more, I plan to re read and get everything out of it I can. But thanks

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorCopperFox3c65 points66 points  (10 children) | Copy

There's often a lot of conversation about setting boundaries in the manosphere, or calling a girl out, and whether that's good and bad. I think what the OP's post really highlights is that it is not so much about setting boundaries themselves, but how you set boundaries that dictates their effect. The way you go about it sub-communicates your confidence and frame to others.

When you let go of your ego, and simply express (thru words or actions) what kind of behavior you do and do not find acceptable without anger or malice, then you are "stating your truth to the world".

A lot of people conflate that with lashing out at someone when you are disappointed by their behavior, which is really just an ego defense mechanism, because they "hurt" you and/or your perception of self-value. How dare they? But that is the wrong way to go about it.

State your truth to the world, and if people don't honor your boundaries, you simply walk away.

[–]seserta14 points15 points  (5 children) | Copy

This, I feel, is the right attitude. Anger weakens us. Serenity keeps us strong.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy

No, being weak weakens you. Anger is healthy.

[–]segagaga2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

Agreed, Anger is an important emotion that is both a tool for adjusting social systems and indicating an injustice.

[–]seserta1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

My understanding is as follows - anger as an emotion is toxic. It builds up toxicity in your body through stress hormones and a stressed mental schema.

What you are describing is a need for social justice. And I totally agree that it is required that we act on it. But we can act because we want justice. We don't have to be angry to want this. We can simply want justice because that is the right way for our civilisation. And we can feel this need with every fibre of our body. This want can be as strong as the need for food.

A calm but determined person is a stronger force than an angry determined person. The calmer person makes better decisions and has a higher tenacity.

As for weakness, it is only a weakness so long as it can deflate a calm, composed mental schema. By taking away that power from any personal trait, we simply make it a skill that needs developing. This makes it easier to achieve self acceptance and continue to self improve without much friction.

I am not saying stop improving. You'll notice I mentioned Kaizen. It preaches continuous progress. There's always progress. It needs to be there. I'm just talking about a shift in the approach.

[–]segagaga3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

You are a victim of modern ideology that teaches that people who are angry are mentally ill or unbalanced in some way.

This is absolutely incorrect.

Anger is natural. Stress is natural. They are part of normal human processes. If one is angry and stressed, it is a sure sign that something is wrong with their environment or experience.

Learning to recognise when one is suffering is the more compassionate action, rather than to dismiss or marginalize them because of their emotional state (which only piles injustice upon injustice).

Stoicism teaches to not show emotion. It says nothing about not feeling emotion.

By all means you stay calm. I have had enough of calm. Being calm does not affect others. Sitting quietly achieves nothing but aquiesence. People assume it means you are ok with their actions.

I am angry because people everywhere are destroying civilization and the world. It is right to be angry, because something is very wrong with my environment (The Decline).

[–]seserta1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Staying calm does not mean inaction. You can act vigorously while staying calm. Anger is natural, yes. So is depression, sadness, jealousy. These had played their roles in human evolution. And they are still with us. By all means, feel angry. And see how efficient your decision making is when you are angry. Now stay calm and composed and plot your action. Gauge the efficiency there.

What I am proposing is not calm inaction. Quite the contrary. I'm proposing that we can act at maximum efficiency when we are not blinded by emotion. Thank about it. You make a lot of mistakes when you are in the heat of the moment. When you go back home and come up with so many better ways of dealing with whatever it was. Why is that? It's because your rage has subsided. And you are calmer, even if just in comparison.

After observing this over and over again, I have decided that by being mindful, i can achieve much more. That's all I meant. I wouldn't be attracted to TRP if I was in favour inaction. I want to act, but efficiently and intelligently.

[–]MrAnderzon4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

Does this apply to being disrespected. If I defend myself I am saying my ego is hurt?

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorCopperFox3c9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

I take a stoic approach to those situations. If someone is being disrespectful to me, that is a reflection of them not me. It means they are a disrespectful person. No need to "defend myself" per se. Simply draw the line where your boundaries are, and if someone repeatedly violates them, walk away.

Now the flip side of that is you need to make sure you are someone worth respecting. That is where the self-improvement and self-mastery of TRP come in. Build yourself up, and carry yourself with class.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Being the man you want to be also means standing up for yourself. There are many times when the smart action is to assertively defend your boundaries. It's easy to modify others shitty behavior. It's easier to walk away. Observe, orient, decide, and act.

Too many young bloods will take this serenity now message to mean it's fine being a push over pussy. Stoic doesn't mean bite your tongue and allow others to disrespect you. Take the action that is in your own best interest.

[–]AwakenedSovereign2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I literally had this question written down waiting for the day when I found a good answer to it.


[–]UnknownSpeci33 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Very happy to read you admitting you drink too much. You have started to change just being admitting that. Things will change for the better. Good luck.

[–]Visionary_Bilic0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks man.

I'm finally starting to care. And the language of this post - about having convictions - if I am a man of convictions, then they will give me strength.

So, I am not a guy who drinks every day. Hell, I am not a guy who drinks every week.

I need to live by this conviction for it to give me strength. And in this way I stop living by my fears, searching for temporary dopamine fixes as brief respites from anxiety and fear. Instead I have strength in my knowledge of myself.

[–]RedOnArrival51 points52 points  (0 children) | Copy

this is one of the best posts i've read on here in a while. just finished reading kamal ravikant's "love yourself like your life depends on it" and alot of what you're saying here lines up with what's in the book.

learning to accept yourself as you are is a massive paradigm shift that's had a huge impact on my life in a matter of weeks. instead of thinking "what should i say in this situation" i just say what's on my mind because at the end of the day, i think my shit is cool AF and if they don't like it, that's on them, doesn't matter. and you know what? that's where frame comes from. that's where outcome independence comes from. that's what being "alpha" is all about.

had a chick text me last night saying she was so incredibly attracted to me which, for me, coming out of a 7 year LTR, hasn't happened in years. and i was saying the stupidest shit in our conversation - whatever came to mind. it doesn't matter what you say, it's the attitude of "im me and this is what i'm about" that's attractive and that flat out isn't possible without accepting yourself as you are 100%.

great post and i'm glad you wrote it.

[–]washington_breadstix30 points31 points  (1 child) | Copy

I like your attitude. Confidence is, and should always be, a natural side-effect of comfort in your own skin.

That original ''local alpha bro'' probably wasn't even a better catch than you. It's probably just how you felt at the time before your self-actualization.

[–]LazyMagus20 points21 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's been a while since I read a post word-by-word without skimming through it. You wrote important stuff very concisely. I am happy for you, man. Thank you for the motivation.

[–]seserta21 points22 points  (2 children) | Copy

"I am the man I want to be. I love myself."

Coupled with the concept of Kaizen (continuous improvements), this is the mantra/learning that really resonates with me. I am not better or worse than others. I am who I am.

I improve on my skills. I learn new skills that I dont have but feel the need for. I don't have strengths. I don't have weaknesses. I have acceptance and non-acceptance. If I do not accept a part of me, I meditate on it. I approach it with compassion and kindness. I untangle it. Understand it. And then let it go its way. It dissipates like a cloud of smoke. I go back to focussing on my breathing.

Thank you for this post. I have just started on the Red Pill. But I have been working on self-improvement for close to a year now. Together, they make me feel like I'm finally on the right track. Stronger. Calmer. Happier and more at peace.

One tip to those who are new in all regards - you need to hone your body AND your mind. A strong body will allow you to punch with a lot of strength. A strong mind will allow you to punch accurately at the right time and place causing the maximum impact.

[–]WolfofAnarchy1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

What does it mean to meditate 'on' something

[–]seserta1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I would recommend "Mindfulness in plain English" to answer this question. There are various forms of meditation and their respective sub-forms. This one made the most sense to me and has been yielding results slowly but steadily.

You can torrent the audio book and listen to it at your leisure. It has really helped me with my focus and overcoming the anger and frustration that I felt when I discovered TRP truths.

[–]MyBlackGirl10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy

I think the biggest thing 90% of readers can do is take action for yourself. Don't tie yourself down let go of the energy waste and when you eat your food eat it for something self improving. Don't dum yourself down to mediocrity

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

I needed this. The film and tv business has picked up for me, but I have a steady job making decent income now that I'm not ready to turn loose of yet. Path is choppy, but the path is known.

[–]Shakydrummer3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Great post man. Really refreshing to read. That's how I've been feeling too lately...kinda taking a lot of value to what TRP has taught me over the years but applying it in a more healthy way. But on top of that, when you work your ass off like you did, it's true, things like your new body, your own discovery of self and learning how to love yourself is in turn a thing that nobody, no woman, can take away from you. You learn not to sweat the details and just keep at it. I'm 30 pounds lighter, lift regularly, eat better, and am slowly gaining more traction in my band (played our first headliner and almost 10k follows on FB!) and meeting SO many better women and expanding my social circle in the music scene and its an amazing feeling. I had to almost lose myself and get cheated on for me to get to this point though, but because of the hard work I put in with creating happiness and self contentment, women are just a side objective at this point.

[–]biggerbetterjobs[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Hell yeah brother (internet fist bump)

[–]victordmor2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

That's the kind of story that I love reading. Folks just like me that succeeded, it gives me hope in my own journey. Thank you, brother.

[–]immozart932 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy

How do you guys figure out what man you want to be in the first place? My ideal self seems to change all the time.

[–]Ether_Freeth1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You pursue what you think is best for you. And I mean pursue not dabble too many people only do the least amount of effort possible before deciding it is too much for them and thus never really committing.

You find out the ins and outs of what you thought would suit you. Most off the time you are wrong because you had too romantic an idea of what it is you thought you wanted , but suffering through that makes it clearer where reality stops and fantasy begins thus clearing up the fog of what is or is not you. Then on your next try you hit a little closer too home. Rinse and repeat until you are what you want to be or as close as possible anyhow seeing as there is always room for more and better.

Sometimes( more like most of the time) this requires you to do exactly those things you deem or deemed not for you, and fail at them miserably.

But in the end the only way towards success is repeated failure. Pushing the envelope of your ability and understanding until you outclass not only your own expectations but also what you incorrectly assumed where your limitations.

[–]RedOnArrival0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

you don't decide who you want to be. you find out what kind of man you are. try new stuff and see what you do or don't like. you can't force yourself to like something just like you can't negotiate attraction.

[–]macaroon180 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

What can you be doing that has you feel most like the essence of yourself?

[–]macaroon180 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

What can you be doing that has you feel most like the essence of yourself?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

no it doesnt change. Have you put the traits on sheet of paper or do you occasionally think about it?

You need to take some time to think about it. Write it down. Focus on it as if its true now. Then work from that place of mind. Believe me, some things about ideal you will be constant, but others can change, change is good if it brings more congruence.

[–]MyStepdadHitsMe1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Really like this post. Thanks

[–]BoBean1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you for this, it really resonated with me as well as others Im sure.

[–]1empatheticapathetic1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

What's your music palette bro.

Don't drop the DM

[–]biggerbetterjobs[S] 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

Oh I still love death metal.. Lots of the old school 90s and late 80s stuff from the Florida metal scene like Death, Obituary, Morbid Angel etc.. I like some of the newer more technical "djent" stuff too but it feels a bit too robotic for me.

I'm a huge fan of the 60s/70s jazz fusion stuff too like Mahavishnu Orchestra, Ornette Coleman, Miles Davis etc.. Punk, 80's/90's era "emo", digging lots of electronic "chill wave" stuff too. Lately have been taking a turn to hip hop/rap because I really like the RP-esque lyrical content and poetic delivery over a beat.. Makes me think of it as like.. Modern day bardic singing.

When you compare the writing of modern day rap and its linguistic structure, it's so cool to see how similar it is to the writings of Homer.. The themes of masculinity and triumph, the repetition of certain phrases throughout books to help maintain a cohesive "vibe", even red pill perspectives on women's sexual nature (there's a passage in the odyssey where Odysseus is covered in blood after slaying the suitors who attempt to usurp his throne talking about how his wife is "excited" seeing him covered in his enemy's blood) etc.. I was talking to a friend about this a while ago and I feel like someone could write their college dissertation on the subject... Off on a tangent lol.

[–]MickeyDeMaria4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Are you Bradley Cooper in limitless?

[–]macaroon181 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Guys just eat what feels right for your body and dont criticize others for doing the same

[–]VickVaseline1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

You have a good writing style.

By the way, what products use animals' reproductive systems in manufacturing?

[–]biggerbetterjobs[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Milk, eggs, etc.. It's fine that most people here won't agree with me, it's a personal choice. I just have ethical qualms about artificially inseminating cows in "rape racks" to have them constantly producing milk.

On top of that, the meat industry contributes so much pollution to the planet.. I find factory farming to be unethical and not stable with respect to nature's laws.. Red meat is bad for your cardiovascular system (men in my family always die from heart attacks at like 45-60.. Something I'm trying to avoid.).. I see nothing wrong with slaughtering an animal and using its flesh as food and bones as material for tool making, but I think we've evolved past that need as a civilization at this point.

I don't deny milk, eggs, and meat taste good. It's incredibly nutritious and appetizing, but I see it as no longer necessary to sustain me nutritionally, the same way it's no longer 100% necessary for me to forage or hunt if I'm living in a metropolis in 2017.

Again it's a personal conviction. I don't expect a ton of people to go vegan to stop hurting animals. I don't look down upon people who eat meat or expect every restaurant to have a vegan option. I'm just doing me.

[–]fastnail1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You should read "Sex at Dawn" by Christopher Ryan.

It's a myth that our pre-agricultural ancestors had short, brutish lives.

Thier diet and lifestyle was far better than after the agricultural age.

[–]Fellow_Traveler911 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Excellent post! We get so caught up in the illusions projected in our minds and forget to just enjoy the little time we have left. Grateful you shared your truth.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Way to go! Be yourself! Well done and well-deserved. Keep it up. You really encouraged THIS GUY today--much appreciated!

[–]1Entropy-71 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Mt. Alpha.

If you are on the west coast then you have to do Mt. Baker.


We learn by sharing experiences.

[–]taxandstuff2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

now apply it to a real career.

[–]biggerbetterjobs 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Whatever you say snowflake

[–]aigamithite6 points7 points  (28 children) | Copy

Great, congrats. I like your upbeat message and I congratulate you for picking yourself up and moving forward toward the life you want to live.

However, I would like to give you a few reasons to not be vegan:

  1. You will get involved with the wrong type of self righteous spergs. Hipster vegan chicks? More like hipster-vegan-pansexual-cheese-smelling-vagina-I'm-with-her-chicks
  2. No restaurant worth going to serves vegans. And I don't mean the hottest burger joint in the state
  3. Just because a tomato doesn't go oink oink or moo moo, doesn't mean it has no soul. Not to mention you are eating oink oink's food and oink oink is going to die of starvation cause you ate his veggies. Not to mention the practices of the veggie industry that decapitates young veggies next to their mom and dad so that you can eat them
  4. Strength and muscles don't go hand in hand with being vegan. Google Alexey Voyevoda 2004 and 2016
  5. You need fats to make testosterone - where are you gonna get enough of them before Mr biggerbetterjobs dies?
  6. You're not biologically made to be vegan. That's why your large intestine has a size between a wolf's and a cow's. We humans eat everything. Evolution demands it
  7. What's more ethically responsible? Letting Mr cluck cluck get eaten alive, screaming for his life, slowly digested by a fox, or having its throat cut down by a human knife?
  8. Rich Piana died for our sins. You disgrace his name going vegan; try PMMA instead

Don't cuck your stomach - eat meat. That's what we men do.

[–]MickeyDeMaria4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

This post follows the mainstream trend to try and describe veganism as weak, or a feminine, submissive form of eating. This is far from the truth, just to give you an example, gladiators followed a vegan diet back during the opulence of rome. The trainers of the gladiators in the ludus made their men eat vegan because of the low cost high strength and endurance ratio. You can find some high performance athletes in the modern world like Nate Diaz and Nic Diaz in the UFC, David Haye

To name a few...

Be Vegan bro.

[–]DaddyIssues615 points16 points  (1 child) | Copy

Im an ex vegan; retired to vegetarian after an accident.

Ive been up and down, from extremist to careless vegan junkie. Its fine. Nothing is wrong with being vegan. But yea, the other side is being triggered by seeing meat being eaten and making everyone uncomfortable about themselves; I was once that guy. Don't be who I was.

Btw you went through the whole list of fallacies against veganism. Ill leave it at that. History of vegan debates never got me anywhere

[–]seserta1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

True. There's a lot of faults with veganism but most of the above are not it. Vegetarianism is better. But even better is making an effort to eat ethically sourced food. You won't be able to all the time. But eventually you will find ways to eat that way most of the time.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (5 children) | Copy

  1. You're telling someone to change their ethical stand point because he might be associated with people that you dislike? Surely you understand that ethical movements can consist of a wide variety of people who often have a variety of different political beliefs right?

  2. What even is this point? Only bad restaurants will serve vegan food? This point leads me to believe that you've probably never tried vegan food. Or gone to a vegan restaurant. It's just a ridiculous claim to make..

  3. Ha ha sigh

  4. It's very easy to cherry pick here, how would you explain Patrik Baboumian? He's literally a competitive strong man who holds world records and is vegan.


  5. There are plenty of plant based fats such as nuts and Avocados. Again, this just shows your lack of knowledge on the subject.

  6. I'm struggling to understand what your point here is? Are you saying that he isn't capable of being vegan because his ancestors may not have been vegan? Or that he should for some reason stick to an omnivorous diet purely because that's the way his ancestors ate? I mean, if you go back far enough our ancestors also raped and murdered each other so I guess OP better get-a raping!

  7. What's more ethically responsible, literally hundreds of thousands of chickens being needlessly slaughtered for food each year or a couple hundred being hunted by foxes? Not to mention there is nothing ethical about the treatment of male chicks. (

  8. ?

Don't cuck your stomach - eat meat. That's what we men do.

well fuck dude, I sure as hope your masculinity isn't challenged by literally fruit and vegetables because that'd be pretty ridiculous.

[–]jairothevaca-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

2- The best restaurants in the world aren't vegan. There are only a few vegans restaurants, they are not that good and they are very expensive, because they can milk from a lot of hipsters, just like Beats' headphones. 4- It's very hard to get enough protein from a vegan diet. Showing a vegan athlete doesn't make a point, because he could eat suplements and shit. And anyone famous for being fit and vegan would definitely hide that, just like many athlete hides the uses of esteroids. 6- He is saying that we envolve to eat everything, maybe we should eat everything. Just like, because we evolve to make physical activity, sports are good to your health.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

  1. The population of vegans in america is around 0.5%, that'd indicate why there are so few vegan restaurants. I am from the UK so I can't speak for other places around the world, But here in London we have a vast selection of vegan restaurants that are very affordable and often times cheaper than their omni counter parts. Side note, do you really think that hipsters are the main consumers of Beats headphones?

  2. This is also just a common misconception, Chicken has 27g of protein per 100g while beef has 26g per 100g. Soy beans have 36g of protein per 100g. Peanuts have 26g per 100g. Doing some quick research will show you that this is just a ludicrous misconception that's become standardised thought. Patrik Baboumian is very open about his diet and his supplement use. Also the idea of him somehow hiding supplements is so strange to me. You realise even omni weight lifters use supplements too right? How often do you hear or see your average gym bro drinking whey protein and other protein supplements? This is very common practice.

  3. Right but you're ignoring my point. we also evolved to rape and murder each other but we've deemed that unacceptable. It should be clear to you that because we as a society used to do something doesn't mean that it's OK or justifiable. I could use your same reasoning to justify murdering someone.

and /u/aigamithite, please try to have some intellectual honesty. I haven't attacked you with ad hominems. If anything my comment on your masculinity was slightly harsh. But to say that i might doxx you for having differing opinions is a little observed.

[–]jairothevaca0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

2- That is actually a good point. Do you know the percentage of vegans restaurant on the top tier restaurants? Well, I guess the only reason to buy a beats is to be a hipster. Anyone one who has listen to two headphones on their life wouldn't buy a beats, because it's way too expensive.

4-What's the point in saying the his diet is good if he uses suplements? You could eat only junk food and still be a bodybuilder if you use suplements. They are there to replace the holes in your diet.

6- Well, rape and murder aren't necessary to your body, it's a behavioral manner. Eating meat is a different kind of thing. As I said, it's like physical activity. If physical activity were against the law, people's hearts wouldn't just adapt to it, they were just gonna have a heart attack.

[–]aigamithite-3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I woulda given you a proper reply but you sound like the type of person that's gonna go doxx me just to prove a point.

I concede to your superior intellect and ethical standards.

[–]biggerbetterjobs[S] 3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy

It's pretty easy to meet your daily values and more on a plant based diet. I even know a vegan body builder from the music scene. The only area where it's kind of tough is getting enough iron. Lots of nutritionists suggest taking a supplement and vitamins.

I think if it was killing people it wouldn't have the hype in the health and fitness circles.

[–]S-Blaze2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

There's many things to take into consideration being vegan. I was vegan for a couple years, it was good for the first couple years but in the end it proved more detrimental to me. Everyone is kinda different though.

You gotta mind about lectins; plants toxins found in grains, seeds, beans and nightshades. This is nature's pesticides, plants protect themselves too. Only pressure cooking can get rid of them effectively such in beans but many antinutrients persist.

Omega 3 - make sure to get omega 3 from supplements or your cognitive abilities / concentration, skin, hair will suffer. Vegan diet can be very high in omega 6 which is bad.

Zinc - Which can be low on a vegan diet cause copper is much higher.

And B12 as you probably know

[–]Dilfy4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

I liked your post man. I'm primarily vegetarian, and I get a lot of flack from meat eaters. I think if you can't look the animal you are eating straight in the eye and kill it, then you are a coward. Which most people (especially women), couldn't do.

Anyway, I just wanted to point out (other than obvious protein requirements) that while iron is high in meat products, it's also attainable through leafy greens (ie spinach), beans, and other foods. B12 almost exclusively attained through meat and dairy - and is crucial for cell synthesis, metabolism, and proper nerve function. I would look into supplementing your diet with some form of methylcobalamin.

[–]jairothevaca0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I think that's a bad point. You can't judge what you think is right by what you can do. Most people couldn't shoot a criminal or arrest a criminal and keep him locked for years if the cell was in their homes. In your logic, these people shouldn't have the police protecting them? Most people couldn't build their own house if their need to. The whole point of society is to divide the tasks between different people, because different people have different capacities.

[–]Dilfy3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'm just saying there's a massive divide between the food people eat, and how the food got to their plate. Everyone loves a good burger or chicken wings. But have they ever ripped the head off a chicken? Or slugged Bessie in the skull? Probably not. I've killed thousands of animals (for work) and let me tell you - taking the life of another creature is not pleasant. If you have any sort of heart, you feel something - every time. And the conditions that many of these animals live in on factory farms is just brutal. Most people see a delicious steak on their plate and don't consider how that piece of meat arrived to them at all. I'm not saying that everyone SHOULD kill their food. Obviously that would be impractical, we don't all live on farms. But I'm saying they theoretically should be able to do it - or at least thankful for the life of the animal they are consuming.

Also, there is no skill in killing an animal. It is a fairly simple act anyone can accomplish. I'd sure as hell shoot someone who broke into my home. Contracting a house is a hard skill to learn, that's a job for a professional, although it's very valuable knowledge to have. I'm not arguing against the division of labor. I'm arguing against the lack of conscious decision making many people make when buying food.

[–]jairothevaca0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Theoretically, all of us could kill an animal. Just leave one starving person with a chicken in a cell and watch what happens. But killing a animal is not a thing most people would do for fun, that's why we delegate. It may be a thing in the us to shoot people, but in Brazil I don't think many would shoot a robber. Maybe we could hit them with sticks or other things. But that's a extreme example, because there is a life threatening( situation. Many people would shoot a animal if it were attacking them. The example of keeping a outlaw in a cage is better. I guess most people wouldn't stand in keeping a inmate locked in their houses for 20 years. But they do agree in the state doing so. And in this example, that's a calculated act, just as killing a animal when you are not starving to death.

[–]Steve_Wiener4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

This is an incredibly juvenile and ignorant argument for carnism.

[–]ag_blank2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

it started with some arguments but the rest is just kidding around

like he realized his point is pretty stupid and started making fun of it himself

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy

Just because a tomato doesn't go oink oink or moo moo, doesn't mean it has no soul.

Yep, Ill get weird. On any given summer day the coolest darkest place in my house in the heat of the day in inside my grow room. I used to go in there to meditate because the rest of the house isnt AC'd. I am 100% certain that plants have some form of consciousness.

You need fats to make testosterone

Why do vegans hate fats? Even none animal fats? I've asked around on vegan forums and YT and just get shit on. They are a weird bunch.

[–]TermsOfColors10 points11 points  (5 children) | Copy

I am 100% certain that plants have some form of consciousness.

What in the everloving fuck

[–]jairothevaca0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Weed always seems to show me some conscious

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

In this case is was weed that was showing me their consciousness.

[–]seserta1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

New research has shown that fats of all kinds are very important for our body's natural development and maintenance. Cut out refined sugar instead and see the results. You will be astounded. Then keep cutting down on all kinds of sugar and it will surprise you even more.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

100%. The withdraw from sugar alone is enough to convince me of your statement. I think you are saying that vegans eat a lot of sugar but doesnt explain why they hate fats of all kinds.

I've been curious for years. I think it just that they associate all fats with animal fats.

[–]FrankieGGG0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Wu Wei. This was that nirvana epiphany you had OP. That feeling of "being suspended in ongoing wave of existence". It's a Taoist term meaning effortless action, and I feel it too. Constantly.

[–]animalapemachine0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

take it from an old timer, this is peak experience:

I just felt suspended in this ongoing wave of existence.. Simply acknowledging the nature of the essence and riding it out in peaceful harmony and balance. Realizing that no matter what happens to me riches, poverty, divorce, happily-ever-after.. I will survive and prosper as the man I want to be....

[–]DadOnDabs-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

Everything was great until i got to the vegan part... but in all seriousness good post. Except for the vegan part.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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