Hello TRP. I'll try my best not to ramble because i'm a fucking mess right now, but i had to post this so that other newbies might learn from my situation.
Found this sub two years ago, i was already with the girl in question. I had just lost my father and my job, and was at my lowest at the time. It's pathetic but she was the only thing encouraging me to get better, her "love" was the drug i was abusing to feel better about everything in my life.
Learning all the material in the manosphere helped me understand why i was doing so great with her. I was the captain and she did everything for me. She gave me her devotion, but not her loyalty. I thought these two were the same, my fucking mistake.
Sex was amazing from day one until the very end. She was present and useful. So what the fuck happened?
She worked hard to appear being an unicorn and i knew that was dangerous for me. I was the stoic dude that didn't obsess about her whereabouts, didn't stalk her social media, i really learned my lesson after years of trying to control GFs and failing miserably.
This year's beginning was a real challenge, i've lost my apartment because i couldn't afford to pay what my late father owed the construction company. No family left and still broke, i had to move to a shitty 1 bedroom place that i chose so i could stay closer to her. I caught her lying about small things. Menial shit that i wouldn't even care if she told me. But when the illusion started to crack. I could see here and there that the truth about my little princess was beginning to creep on me.
Yesterday she flaked because she was "broke" and couldn't get the uber. I felt an unexplainable URGE to dig deeper. I can't explain this to you guys except: FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, TRUST YOUR GUT MORE, what happened was that i called and she hesitated to answer. I freaked out for the first time in 4 years and completely lost frame. I started texting like crazy and non-stop calling.
Two hours later a random dude messages me on FB. He was her fucking lover and he didn't know she was still with me. She told him she had broke up with me around february and he started dating her until this day. UN-FUCKING-BELIEVABLE.
The same month i was losing my home of more than 20 years, she was lining another dude. She kept giving me great sex, love and help while cheating like that. Would you call that cognitive dissonance or what?
I confronted her, she confirmed everything. Was crying like a fucking 5 year old who got caught. Asking me for forgiveness and saying she was a terrible human being who will suffer the consequences later. I didn't take her back.
I don't want this just to be a rant, so here:
Being alfa only changes the PERCEIVED respect she has for you. Sure it's great to have her give you lots of sex, company and even monetary help, but if she is a cheater you will never know until it's too late. She will treat you like her king while still getting side dick.
If you find her lying to you about anything, and she keeps lying after addressing it, ghost IMMEDIATELY. A bitch who lies about small things WILL lie about the worst. Never forget this.
I only found about everything because i lost frame and blowed her phone, in being a complete hurt beta, i ended finding the truth. The dude was with her at the time and instantly knew something was up. If you don't want to get to this point, learn to call it quits as soon as she shows herself dishonest.
Don't end like me. Nothing in this world is unconditional. Don't believe the love of your life is an angel if the actions don't add up with her excuses. Pay attention to what she does, not what she says.
Right now i'm feeling like a trainwreck, but for the first time in my life i have gained the self-awareness to understand how to make meaningful change to my relations and myself. And the reason is this sub. Thank you all so fucking much.
Hey - Good post, I feel for you man. Lying from the people closest to us is about the most painful thing I can imagine. Props to that dude for actually contacting you.
Question - What kind of small things was she lying about? I'm curious as to why you think she would lead such an extreme double life.
Thank you for the words man.
Basically, she was lying about not going out with the girlfriends. Not even clubbing/partying or something serious like that. Everytime i suspected something she would do the classic gaslighting to make herself look innocent. Other small stuff too that really only shows how much she was used to lying. Maybe i would have discovered this way before if i was as paranoid and insecure as i used to be on my bluest days.
The most important thing i take from all this is that small lies were the best clue to drop her. Just resist the urge to dig deeper, we can't lose our time double checking someone who's a proven liar.
In my experience if a woman says she is not doing something she is doing it and vice versa. Ymmv. If it is an answer to a question not asked then 100% assume the opposite.
OMFG - MY LIFE'S ULTIMATE PET PEEVE. I quietly let her answer all she wants and then I say:
"OK, your answer does not match my question. Would you prefer I ask a question that matches your answer, and then I will ask my question again, or would you rather answer my question right away?"
It teaches them to listen to me carefully.
NEVER let it slide.
A pet peeve i have is letting people dig their own grave, being non judgemental then watching the reaction when i reveal/act accordingly to what they said. But all that ever happens is i end up losing a connection.
The thing about your pet peeve is you're calibrating them to learn how to lie to you better. You're pointing out how they fuck up instead of noting they're fucking with you and then considering what to do about it afterwards.
(This isn't an attack, relax but) What do you get out of the comment you just wrote in such a situation? They listen to you carefully? Don't you mean you catch them out or something?
Agreed. Make sure you have your poker face down. When you catch something, give zero indication of acknowledging the mistake, just like you wouldnt want to let a poker contestant know you just learned their tell.
Otherwise they'll realize it and recalibrate their Bullsit-o-tron 2000 kock holster.
This is a good observation. Women don't want a rational discussion. He's talking to her like he would want to be spoken to, which is oddly something they don't like. But my question is what would you suggest he do differently if he wanted to continue on with her? Or conversely if he decided to be done with her? I'm curious on your thoughts
Play a game of cat and mouse or just ghost.
Ill write up a response once I get home (Too much to respond on mobile) as I know what he's saying and learned that the hard way a few years ago.
Very good comment! I am not upset by it -at all-.
Actually, about your second paragraph (pointing out the effect on me): it is indeed something I have started to do about one year ago (about the time I figured out TRP - it took me at least 2 years to understand what TRP was about...). Of course it is more positive, and I even recently noticed other people around me copying/mirroring that strategy. It does greatly reduce tension.
I mainly use my "trick" when we are deeper into a conversation into which I feel people are being disingenuous, or are asleep at the wheel. It's a gentle mental wake-up slap on the cheek!
Impossible. Its like getting mad at the wind blowing when you don't want it to. You can't "teach" their chemistry to alter.
I'm actually getting mad at the wind blowing on my worst days :D
Agreed. Never catch feelz though. Let them weave their story.
As an interesting side note: Men and women lie differently as well. So don't look to catch them like you would a male friend.
Listening to your gut instincts isn't the same thing as being paranoid. I've had to learn this the hard way as well.
Can you expand on this? I'm somewhat new to TRP, and in an LTR. And while I don't show it, I've found that seeing this side of women has made me paranoid that my LTR is doing something similar to the OP's ex (she treats me just like she treated him).
How do you differentiate between your gut and just paranoia? Also I'm curious on how you learned the hard way.
That's the bad side of LTR... you get closer to a person and inevitably lose some frame and become vulnerable. And that makes you paranoid cause you can never be 100% sure it's not gonna happen. That's why you need to work on building defences if something like that happens. I mean emotional defences. And it also seems that paranoia and your gut are the same thing.
This is why it is important to properly vet a woman at the beginning of dating so you know what kind of person she is. Whether or not a woman cheats on your is more about her than you. Date a woman who has strong family values and she won't cheat on you. She'll be more likely to leave you if you're a loser, but she won't cheat.
If you date a woman who's parents divorced, and who's had little or no relationship with her father, and she's slept around with lots of different guys, or has an affinity for co-dependent relationships then yeah, the chances of her cheating on you are pretty high over the course of any potential LTR. If you do happen to really like a woman and she has ANY of the problems listed above, and you're really dead set on dating her, then insist she see a therapist. Ideally just don't date those types of women at all, but if you do then making sure she gets those issues resolved as a non-negotiable requirement for a relationship.
"This is why it is important to properly vet a woman at the beginning of dating so you know what kind of person she is. "
Fail. No amount of getting can ever reveal the type of woman she really is.
My defense: https://www.mspy.com/
Been married 15 years. Put this on her phone 3 years ago. Peace of mind is worth it. I have no reason to distrust her, except that she is a woman.
Used it to catch cheating wife a few yrs ago, great app. Final divorce hearing next month and it's a toss up between a bad outcome and a really bad outcome. Fair play to you if yours is trustworthy, always pays to have a plan though.
The problem is not when everything is going all right. If everything is alright, they have no reason to cheat/ leave you. But if you end up losing either money or happiness or anything, then no matter how redpilled you are or how alpha you are, you will lose frame.
That is a terrible way to live my friend. At the end of the day a woman is less likely to cheat on you if she knows that you're the best thing that's happened to her.
So cultivate an amazing life that does not depend on the presence of a woman, that way you develop abundance and you don't have to live your lifein paranoia.
She'll fantasize about getting strange dick but the chances will be low that she'll act on it because she would have too much to lose.
But please for the love of god don't live your life in paronia about what your woman does that is just some weak man shit.
AWALT,
/points to sidebar.
We are not going to tell you what you want to hear. Paranoid is a waste of time, if you don't trust her, move the fuck on.
Truly eye opening. Unless you are schizophrenic or something, if you are paranoid that your LTR is lying/cheating/whatever it means deep down you don't trust her.
You can't be with someone who you don't trust, even if you think you're overreacting or being paranoid deep down the root of the issue is you can't trust her. It doesn't matter why you can't trust someone.
Well I was dating a chick for the past two months. Everything was going fine until I noticed some changes in her behavior. Not texting as often and text messages a little shorter then usual.
Gut feeling was telling me something was up, but since this was soooooo small I let it play out. But I had my suspensions in the back of my head.
Last week we had plans to hang out. She said she was most likely able to hang, but would call me to verify. She never called. I called her and she was telling me how she was out with her aunt and uncle and little cousin. And she kept mentioning how upset she was at her little cousin talking back to her aunt and uncles.
The fact that she kept mentioning something that wasn't a big deal at all lead me to believe that she was hiding something. Two days ago we basically end things because she says she sees me only as a friend (despite us having sex, but ok).
Take note of the examples I gave. Those were very small things, but once you notice any changes in behavior and your gut is telling you something is up, 10/10 times it is.
Ah, the classic "I just see you as a friend" or "I love you but I'm not in love". That always means another guy is in the picture.
Yea I don't know for sure, but I'm with you. That's what I'm leaning towards too. I met her through her sister and her sister said she wasn't seeing anyone. She also told me she wasn't (actions not words).
So who knows. But that's where my suspension lies as well.
sounds like she swiped right on another dude and wanted to leave her schedule open that night in case he asked her out... and then he did
It was maybe service sex. She had lost attraction for you or never had it in the first place. Check to see if you did everything right and if you did, it was just hypergamy and there's nothing you could've done.
So basically you suck in bed.
I see you got some downvotes for that comment, but I feel that it could be a plauseable contributing factor. But how could anyone prove that?
Tread lightly man. This can happen to anyone and it's a reality you need to be aware of, but don't let the worry poison your relationship. Focus your energy on being the best you. This makes her less likely to stray, and worst case scenario if she does you're already at a solid spot in life so you can move on easier.
Very solid advice man, thanks for that.
To me... it's about confidence. I don't mean the kinda confidence that's like "I'm the shit, I'm the best she can do." I mean it's good to have that confidence but better than that is not thinking your the best but non stop working to actually BE better than everybody else. Anyway the kind of confidence I'm talking about is simply... not being scared. Not being scared of being lied to, not being scared of being cheated on, not being scared of that gut dropping feeling when your girl is clearly interested in the good looking guy at the party, etc... it's about not being paranoid about why she's not answering the phone because you know for fact she has her fucking phone in her hand and is looking at your name on the screen. It's about shrugging your shoulders and having the balls to say "she's not giving me what I want I'm out." It's about having to courage to face sadness and pain in the eye can keep moving forward. It's about walking away from a woman that you really like because your not a pussy who settles for the girl who doesn't make you THE priority every second of every day because you know she would if she wanted to.
Damm dude! Spot on! Facing life and all its issues head-on! Like staring death in the eye and saying "give it your best shot!" Like Sonny in Predator at the end when he stands on the bridge and cuts his chest and tells the others to continue. It's TRP at its naked core! Well done.
So uhh, I really know where you're coming from.
I won't go into all the specifics, but basically I quit my job to help my ailing father.
My gf who i thought of as my unicorn went ahead and did this:
New Years Eve, she chose to desert me (leaving me to be by myself) to spend time with friends which included a guy...a guy who beat the shit out of her "just once though". While my dad was literally on his deathbed at the hospital...he died a few days later.
She likely used the "beat her but just once" as a qualifier to justify him as no-one to worry about.
Like if she said he's gay so that you wouldnt want to dig any further.
oh yea i know, i was just so lost in my existential crisis with my life, my dad, having a girl for the first time in my life that i didn't want to lose, and being the stoic rock for my family.
i couldn't get my head above water to see just how awful the things she was doing were. i mean i definitely knew on some level, but like i said, was so flipped around with everything else i couldn't see rationally.
I understand and have been there. I was there almost 7 years ago exactly. My mom passed and i had just started dating this chick who was an alcoholic and pathological liar. I was so out of it due to dealing with my moms estate and passing that i glossed over it.
This is about you tho, so I hope things get better for you sooner than later. Sorry about your fathers passing. To lose your father at an age where your learning to get your footing is terrible.
Where were your friends and family though.
That was not a true relationship. Most people don't like dealing with other people's shit and they'll dissappear the moment tough shit happens. The only people wholl be around are your true family and friends.
Another common sign is suddenly their work hours get all wonky. They start randomly getting held late, or have to go in early, and they're super busy and the boss is breathing down their neck, so they won't be able to check their phone. But see you in a couple extra hours. Because we all know that's the perfect amount of time for a certain extracurricular activity.
The final fight I had with my last ex she went out for her birthday "with the girls". Told me she'd only have a couple and be home by 11. "Accidentally got too drunk" was the call I got at 2am when the bars close, and they were going to hang out and sober up. Offered to come pick her up, she insisted I don't. Didn't get home until 5am. So you loitered outside a closed bar in the wee hours of the night? Don't insult my fucking intelligence. That pisses me off more than cheating.
They'll always say something like, "Oh, you can ask Jenny, she'll confirm it! You're being an asshole!"
Yeah? Trust me, if I was fucking another chick and you even RANDOMLY called my boy, he'd absolutely make sure he covered for me, even if I didn't give him warning he'd keep it nice and vague and skirt around it. That's a completely moot counterpoint.
Sorry about your challenges man.
You do NOT want to be insecure and paranoid. You DO want to be confident yet aware.
You want to be secure and confident in who you are as a person, man, lover and leader. You don't want to be insecure and feeble. You should be AWARE of her behavior, actions, lies, deceptive skills, etc., without being paranoid. You should be able to drop her on a moment's notice, and insecure men cannot do that. You should be able to see the facts and the truth for what they are, and paranoid men cannot.
Using your example, you want to be: confident, secure and aware. You want to see her tiny lies for what they are and dig into them if your gut says so. But do so like an alpha detective, not an obsessed beta. You remove the extreme emotions on either side because you are aware that all humans lie and all women deceive. You know this is fact. There are no unicorns. From there, like a scientist, you apply logic and reason to uncover the truth and respond as necessary.
By the way this is how you develop amused mastery. Being aware of all the shitty behavior and being amused about it because you know whats going on.
Bro. "Paranoia and Insecure" are just shaming tactics to get you to not follow your sub conscience aka gut feeling. Guess what? If shes wasn't out being a ho...you wouldn't have these feelings that were created after thousands of years of evolution to keep you from getting cucked.
Exactly. Guys that take joy in the downfall of another male are no better than the women they despise. Fuck those guys.
Brothers, let's look out for each other.
Nuh bru um gunna fuk ur gurl thuts ulpha mule
mY "gurlz" on teh bloc ayy
It's a little too late for brotherhood. I thought it was possible until I started reading this sub, and seeing all the usual suspects flock.
It certainly is possible.
There's no "us vs. them" girls against boys playground type of "brotherhood".
If you want brotherhood, find yourself a couple of brothers. Make friends, respect them and have their back if they respond in kind, so on and so forth. This is exactly what has been happening here on TRP for what, 4 years or so now? And being governed by the mods, SCs and ECs as it is, it's a pretty amazing place.
In fairness, this wasn't a guy who knew about the relationship and just Chad'd his way through it. The guy was also lied to so he was probably pissed because she was cheating on him too.
Good point, she was getting dicked by both guys and both guys were lied into believing this girl was only having them. Chicks don't get that our emotions hinge on the fact that the girl is pure and doesn't give it to anyone else. The moment the guy found out he emotionally checked out and told OP.
It's one of societies biggest sins to not teach girls that guys will lose attachment to a girl if he finds out she's incident.
I think you're right but I would go further, and I mentioned this in my response to OP in this thread. Despite the cliche of the philandering male, I think men naturally have a problem with this type of behaviour in a moral sense. If you think about this, this chick lied constantly for months to both men about what she was doing, her whereabouts, her feelings towards them, etc. She was telling OP she loved him, she was probably saying the same shit to the other guy.
I'm no saint - I've cheated a shit load in my life - but I've never done this type of lying, and if I did try and do it there would be a moral dilemma about how cheating with a tryst secretively once in a while is one thing but engaging in two separate relationships simultaneously is quite another. This deceptive behaviour takes a level of self-absorption and willingness to hurt other people that men aren't naturally inclined to do. We don't mind fucking girls, but engaging in long term secretive relationships behind their backs and lying to them so everyone is emotionally attached is the domain of women.
Men do care about "honour", their reputation, their word, call it what you will, quite a lot. Women care about social proof and their feelings, and they will steamroll through men to obtain this if they have to and not think twice.
Completely on point. It's not only a sexual thing. Obviously no guy who has any other options will accept a girl knowing she is fucking someone on the side or fucked allot of guys before him. Fact.
But it's also an emotional one where you invest in your LTR because you like her as a person. Just like you enjoy your friends for who they are or else they wouldn't be your friends. Men pick the girls they commit to based on who they are and how they fit in their lives.
When a girl lies to such an extend about all kinds of shit then her entire identity falls into question. She no longer can be seen as the person that fit in your life. Suddenly you feel like you are dealing with a stranger. Yes it's female nature to dabble in shit like this but it's societies job to keep them straight.
Right now girls can play the field in such a fucked up way. You feel cheated in the purest sense. Swindled actually. Someone tells you lies and you fall for them and give them your honest thoughts. Not knowing the other party is laughing behind your back.
The funniest thing is that if you turn the tables girls are mortified. They are hurt if you sexually cheat but just try to emotionally cheat once. Get a girlfriend, then get a second girlfriend and let the first girl in on the secret in a moment where you are having a fight. Watch her go from furious to, hurt, depressed, clingy and all 50 shades of victimhood. It's the nuclear bomb that she will never recover from. Yet they do it themselves all the time.
I was "the other guy" in a LTR with an exgf. Women lie, there are no exceptions. AWALT always applies. After a year she bailed and got back with the ex. I've been drama free after severing completely once she gave those magic words, "need some space". I'm sorry OP. Focus on yourself and you'll be good.
When I was young I had this short term relationship. Girl turned out to be BPD. When we broke up she obviously already got around dating someone else. It was one of those skinny Asian Americans who pretends to be a nigger but in reality always hung out with the high school science team.
I was at my lowest point after an injury keeping me barred from active duty in the military and forcing me to try civilian life again. It didn't work at all and I lost my mojo. Hated my life, girl took the moment of weakness and blasted me into oblivion. After we broke up she made it no secret she was dating him.
I tried to maintain frame and not give a shit. Had trouble eating, lost weight and fitness. She kept putting it in my face. Eventually she sends me a snap with the guy cockily giving me the thumps up. Thinking he finally was a player or something. Shit stinged like hell. I got about 3 inches on him, 50 lbs and I'm back in active duty. If I ever see his face in town he has a big problem. And like all those types, of course you never see them.
Nothing is worse than a guy who acts like a bitch. Even when I fuck some other guys chick, I know I can't change his situation. But rubbing it in is beyond any guy who has some self respect.
Yeah. There is a difference between just reaping the benefits of a fucked up situation and enjoying the fact that such a situation exists for your gain in the first place.
It's a woman thing to do. It implies you need the ego boost because you lack self confidence. It's the lowest thing you can every do. It doesn't win you anything but some emotional high. And this is exactly what dubs a guy beta.
I'd even feel used by the girl if I had to pose just to piss some guy off. It means she still cares about the dude and i'm just being fucked with.
"Girl had BPD".
Don't they all? Asking for a friend. lol.
I think we have more mentally ill people in todays world than ever. People fuck eachother up, their kids and the cycle of abuse never ends. But in actuality I think 1 out of every 10 girls is BPD. Something like that. Perhaps slightly more.
However if you are TD or personality disordered yourself then you are bound to constantly attract that 10%. So to people like that it might feel like every girl is BPD. But that's the irony.
Ironically not ironic. Lol. One of the things is, once you notice the behaviours, and how magical they can be at push/pull/dread/comfort, it's really, really obvious that so many display them on a constant, daily basis. Well, and a lot just flat out admit they have it. lol.
Most don't know exactly what they have but they know they are crazy yes. Also it's not that noticeable in the beginning I'd say. Because they are in the pull/comfort zone as you put it. Which means they are chasing you like a hungry lioness. Most guys will just chalk it up to "well ofcourse she's chasing me like that, im amazing".
Only when the "you are amazing omg!" goes to sudden "i'm not interested" or "I hate your guts". That's when you realize the shift in attitude.
So you just throw out nigger like it's nothing?
this isn't the place to have this conversation, but the word needs to either be banned from use by ANYONE or allowed to be used by anyone. none of this racial privilege shit saying "because i'm this skin color i can say this word". that's not an equal society, that's not a free speech society. that is a product of a marxist society
you don't have to like it
I actually agree with what you're saying. It's not a big deal to me honestly. To every man his own. It's just a word but words can convey emotions and intent. I only asked because I was curious about the answer. I thought it was funny he used Asian American and nigger in the same sentence
Yes i'm black so I can say whatever I want man.
It is fucked up, but at the same time those dudes don't owe you anything. I'm not saying I condone the behavior, but not every dude is gonna tape a message beneath the toilet lid to let you know your girl is cheating, or do what this dude did for OP.
True. Nobody owes anyone anything yet we're all better off if we believe we owe each other a bit of effort in the attempt to sustain civilization. At least to my knowledge, that's what civilization is. It's the sign of a fucked up individual to reap the benefits of civilization and then turn around and shit all over it with their behavior. You're taking but not giving. That will not last. That's pretty much what the "decline" is.
Yep. But she was lying to that guy too - told him she was done with this guy. It would be great if he dumped her and she ended up with neither of them. OTOH someone like that will find another guy real soon but it won't be an upward branch swing. She'll commence a series of the same behavior.
Once a liar, always a liar.
The other guy told the OP and that ruined her escapade. You don't do throw your girl under the bus like that if you plan on staying with her. She got dumped twice.
I really respect a guy that comes out like that. I've had people try to keep shit from me too; they are instantly never going to be trusted.
Also comes to mind the guy that banged some chic, found out she was married/bf, he taped a note under the toilet seat saying that he was sorry and she cheated on him. That dude did a solid.
There's a lesson in here, and I think almost no guys are going to see it:
The guys who cling to self-improvement. The guys who think of alpha as an aspirational archetype. There's always another chad who is better, or sometimes just different. There is no correct combination of behaviours or attractive qualities that make you impervious.
The only thing you have is outcome indifference. You set it up so you survive and thrive, regardless of what she does. Because, get it through your head:
If you read rollos articles on male vs female love. Everything on hypergamy etc. Most of the time, you being a top shelf man aligns with the best way forward for men. At the same time, it's correlation, not causation.
You can't make her love you like mommy does. Men > Women > Children > Puppies, period.
The cardinal rule is key, one has to fail for another to succeed
If she cheats, you'll never know. Have to accept that you'll never know, at least not at first.
I like this FR, because it illustrated the stupidity of these new guys in here to keep clinging to self improvement. You have to take ownership of your life, outsourcing it to a set of external rules will only lead to shit like this. Maybe not as bad, but they will happen.
You come into, and leave this world alone, act accordingly
Powerful words.
I always disagreed with the folks who posted "be alpha and she will never cheat". It doesn't happen like that.
Im taking every reply at heart here. There is a long way to go and i'm just at the beginning of my life. I feel blessed right now.
Indeed, you are blessed by young age. Experience is always the wisest teacher; one you tend not to question often, especially after multiple "lessons".
Me: 40 YO dude who's had his fair share of ups and downs - AF/BB, marriage, divorce rape (vindicated), kids caught in the middle (no more) - the full spectrum of everything that forges momentum behind TRP, and (sadly, but truthfully) solidifies every piece of it.
There was no TRP, much less ubiquitous Internet access when I was young. I EXPERIENCED, UNDERSTOOD, and changed - Had no other choice. YOU can UNDERSTAND, EXPERIENCE, and change - you have TRP: a million man army your disposal; products of our times, potentially lifetimes of anecdotal advice from which to draw.
You are definitely blessed. Use it. All of it.
Read Rian_Stone's comments again, and when you UNDERSTAND and are ready - use them to make your next EXPERIENCE a bit easier.
When you UNDERSTAND the rules, you can use that to PLAY the game. When you EXPERIENCE the rules in action, you can use that to WIN the game. Always be learning, and experiencing - in that order, when possible.
You will only be prepared for the next time if you UNDERSTOOD from this EXPERIENCE. Otherwise, you will EXPERIENCE it again.. and again...
Well wishes, brother.
Good advice, and has been mentioned many times.
Relevant to the OP, I think a key part of outcome independence as far as a LTR is concerned is establishing your frame around what you want out of it. If that has been met, then you should be satisfied with the investment of your time.
So if, in the end, it blows up or she cheats, then you next her. That doesn't mean the entire LTR was a waste of your time.
If she cheats, well, it was only your turn. The OP described being very satisfied for much of the LTR. The lesson here is that he wasn't prepared for what could and did unfold.
Who wants to be the guy who is indifferent to everything, not me that is for sure
Its like asking the question, who is the most powerful dude in the room, the one that everyone will not cross, its not the big dude with tribal tattoos and a big chain letting everyone know not to mess with him
It is the dude sitting in the corner with a salmon cardigan that looks like a bookkeeper & is ultra competitive & the most important part is he is willing to throw his entire life away if you look at him in a way that challenges his authority
I have met one guy not that long ago who was like that & I instantly felt uneasy around him He stayed over and was a guest of my housemate, no point going into it all but when you see someone who is like that then you will know it and it is pretty rare
He has a wife, 2 kids, does not look after himself and is a smallish nerd looking guy & you can just tell that he will keep coming back at you until you are under him & if that means killing someone, he would do it
There are not many people like that but he is very successful as a stock broker because of his aggression
My housemate who is a huge guy and never backs down from a fight prettended to be asleep while he punched the other housemate for no reason at all, also while the house mate was not looking he tried to kick him as hard as he could with a side kick while the other house mate was sitting on the lounge
I knocked on the door of the housemate who's guest it was and told him he had to come out and sort his guest out and I fucking could not work it out but he would not come out
Turns out he was scared of him, literally twice his size & then he told me about how last time he got into a dispute with someone, he bit their nose off......
I told him if he comes to stay again, I am going away for the weekend
Great story! It made me chuckle with the nose part
Anyway, the way you described the dude made it look like he cared A LOT more than being indifferent. But you're right that he cared about his reputation (at least that's how he saw it) a lot more than his family and everyone else. He might be on the psychopathic side too.
In conclusion, to me he looks more like the guy who is very uncertain of himself and he cares about how everybody perceives him more than anything else, so essentially he does care!
Hm..
Rollo is married.
Makes him very incongruent if you ask me.
He addresses this often I believe. The issue at heart here is that monogamy is a societal aspiration/foundation at the heart of almost any meaningful civilization. It goes against the grain of our self interested/animalistic intentions (the definition of cuckhold comes from the species of bird that fathers a child that isn't even his), but we aspire to it for the importance of family, raising successful well-adjusted children, etc.
To tear down monogamy is to tear down very basic societal framework. If women are let to be whores --> men won't commit/divorce will occur --> children will be born into broken homes --> broken homes creates daughters who fly off the handle (daddy issue types) and creates frustrated fucked up men (manifesting in crime/delinquency or in societal withdrawal). We are in the throes of this effect right now and it's only a matter of time before everything goes to shit.
Although this sub is very anti-monogamy/marriage, monogamy and marriage are key to raising well-adjusted children and both are necessary if you are to raise children. If you have zero intention to have kids, it's not worth it and I wholeheartedly do not blame anyone who is against it. However if you do want to have children, you will need a woman who can be accountable and stay married to you. Keep in mind that monogamy/marriage is built upon gender roles, raising kids, and permanence. Modern conceptions of marriage are marrying your best friend, marrying for love, marrying for congruence of ideals- in this marriage the man doesn't lead and is destined to fail.
Knowing that the real undergirding of marriage is the aspects I described, it's important to find a woman who will acquiesce to those roles she needs to fulfill. Red Pill awareness can help us separate the wheat from the chaff in this respect to find a worthy mother to our children.
Look at it this way, women love to say "he's husband material" to men who they'd love to depend on but not fuck. From our perspective there are women who'd make great mothers to our children and there are those who'd make better bedtime playmates. Unfortunately there seem to be more of the latter than the former. That said I don't think monogamy/marriage are institutions worth abandoning for a majority of the population (those who want kids) but rather men (as we are the ones who choose our wives) need to be keen to the circumstances that abound us and women's inclination towards lies.
I believe women struggle with monogamy more.
I'm not arguing it is men that aren't monogamous, the blame almost certainly lies with women and hypergamy. What I am saying is that for the sake of those among us who want to become fathers (which I'm sure is a non-0% of RP men), we cannot reject/let die the institutions that created strong family units in the past. In order for those of us who would like to become fathers (again not an imperative, many men don't want children and in that case marriage is a waste of time), we will need strong monogamous/no-divorce oriented/strong gender roles families if we are to: 1) prevent ourselves from getting royally fucked in a divorce and 2) raise well-adjusted children.
Female issues with monogamy vary from woman to woman, but the threat of her fucking up is always there. The need for us is to then pick a lower-risk woman to marry (religious, gender roles, had a good dad, etc.) and be the most attractive man we can be (self-improvement, income, dreadgame, etc.) If anything, a man who wants to be a father has time to pick a suitable wife, whereas women have the wall to avoid and settle with men they will end up being unattracted to. This is why I think trad-con reports are really important to be posted/learned from on this sub, because I feel like these could throw men off when looking for a wife.
Absolutely false. You are totally unaware of societies that live in ways which would BLOW YOUR MIND. Remember, "it takes a village to raise a child" came from somewhere.
You do not understand that saying.
I'm not going to beleaguer the point anymore. EVERY single psychological survey will indicate stable 2 parent household > Single mother or any alternative for that matter. Children need fathers, a world without monogamous marriage means a world without fathers because no man will settle for a marriage where he gets the shitty end of the stick (no-fault divorce, having to marry a whore, zero respect for being a provider, etc.) Despite this women will continue to have children as is their biological impulse (88.5% of American women past 40 have had children). A world with fucked up childhoods --> new cadre of weak adults, more likely to commit crimes, etc. This is simply an argument of facts.
To your comment about societies that raise children communally, this doesn't happen in the developed world. The West, East Asia, etc. all have some conception of family structure, two parent households, and some degree of paternal respect. The answer is to repair the institutions that have been diminished post-1960s, not abandon them because you can point to a tribe somewhere in Africa where the village raises children. Your argument is analogous to the trans-rights justification of the existence of more than 2 genders because there are tribes in Polynesia where multiple genders exist.
You're not thinking globally. Read the book Sex at Dawn; there are myriad examples of polyamorous, communal etc. societies. Societies that do not concern themselves with genetic lineage, societies that laugh at the ideas of monogamy and sexual jealousy, etc. They all have father figures as part of their makeup. Multiple parental roles for ost of em. You are viewing things through a Western cultural lens.
The book you cited glorifies the role of the hunter gatherer and exactly coincides with my argument, monogamy is not a natural inclination, a natural inclination is to that of the animal. Men are not animals by sheer virtue of the fact that we have transcended natural inclinations through civilization.
I am not seeing things through a Western lens. Monogamy/marriage are not aspects of Christian, Western European values- they are aspects of any civilization to have ever raised men strong enough to accomplish anything. Period. The Muslim world, Hindu Empires in India, China, etc. all had conceptions of a marriage and gender roles with basic similarities to that of the West. I am viewing things through a civilizational lens and a civilization built upon hedonism/decay of family-units is a dying civilization. There's no point to cast my pearls before swine, if you think tribalism is a worthy alternative to the results of civilization (modern medicine, technological progress, law and order) then join the last uncontacted tribe in the world, the Sentinalese islanders.
Tribalism is so majestic!
how so? He's fully aware, TRP isn't a life plan, unless you're fucking scared of taking responsability for yoru life choices
"Don't let yourself get attached to anything you are not willing to walk out on in 30 seconds flat if you feel the heat in the corner."
An excerpt from the movie, "Heat."
Great phrase!
However, the women in "Heat" were terrible tho'.
Fucking Al Pacino like nah man you keep fucking my soon to be ex wife I got shit to do
That's a tough situation you went through / are going through, but think about this: you got years of great sex and devotion. "These hoes ain't loyal" - monogamy isn't natural. You can't have it all. You did get cheated on, but you got your needs satisfied for 4 years. Not so bad.
You're right. And i know it could be so much worse.
In fact, i'm grateful for this experience opening my eyes. The day i learned about redpill and decided to stay with her because everything was smooth and i was "alfa" i knew deep down that some shit would eventually happen.
I embrace this and will use it as fuel to fix my life.
In your original post you said:
To add to the idea that you shouldn't feel too bad because of the deal you got (sex and support for free for 4 years), you also can't blame her or think of her as "cognitively dissonant". She was simply playing the odds. You lost your job, so she hedged her investment by also seeing another guy, if you flopped long term she could go with him, if you didn't she would stick with you. She is just using basic strategy, people do the same thing with jobs, if a job isn't working out you start applying to other jobs ready to jump ship.
I know logically it makes sense that "women view us the way we view jobs" etc. But at the end of the day, we're people giving up our time and lives for the other person. That's why this is still a shocking adjustment/realisation for everyone every time this happens.
A woman could read your reply^ 100,000 times straight and literally never see any of the words you typed after the first period.
I don't mean that in a broad or general sense... I mean: a woman FUCKING LITERALLY would not only not process anything after the first period but she wouldn't even see it on the piece of paper she was reading it from.
No victim but my experience was... shall we say - interesting. Wouldn't change it for the world now, it forges a strength that can only come from pain. You're good brother.
Judging by the way you type, you're not the smartest guy around. See, you thought you were "stoic" by not observing the behaviour of your girlfriend, by not being territorial, but if you had been, you would have noticed she had a lover.
The whole point of his post is that you will NOT notice it. I think he is right.
You won't notice it. That's the nature of women and the person here saying otherwise is naive and living in a fantasy. If you think you're smarter than her on this regard, biology and science say otherwise. THEY WERE BUILT FOR THIS SHIT. You were not.
You will, if you are smart. Why do we have instincts at all? I once succesfully bailed out of a relationship before the girl cheated on me. I simply felt something was off. Asked some people the right questions and bam! my suspicions were confirmed.
Before she cheated.?..or so you think
Yeah, i used the term lightly. I know stoic isn't about being a passive guy.
My previous relations always ended with me going crazy insecure about everything. It left a sour taste in my mouth, i just can't make myself start doing that again, feels like i just lose it the moment i suspect about something.
Don't date until you get your whole life together. You don't have to be a genius. Just work your ass off.
Bullshit. Banging a few chicks over the next week will do wonders. Just stop falling in love every time.
Fine. Normally this is my advice to people, but OP needs to get his financial shit together right now, not go chase pussy.
For a buffoon you offer pretty good perspective. An old-school fool. I like.
This man speaks the Truth. OP's girlfriend gave him the best parts of an LTR and even stuck around during his grief(You can be sure less loyal hoes would have bounced long ago).
I don't know seems like maybe OP didn't do enough to keep her from cheating.
This is an important lesson. When you're at your lowest, misery does love company and it's when you're most vulnerable. Desiring a mother's comforting touch in a time of need is a programmed response for many men. It's also a potential pitfall as you appear weak to your woman. While she may show you her comforting side, she is secretly repulsed by you, doesn't have the tingles for you, and pursues a 'real man'. Having been in a similar situation, your experience is not unique. Don't give them an ounce of perceived weakness, for it will only fuel their hypergamy.
A toxic and addicting drug. Spinning plates and creating dread is the vaccine.
Thank you for the field report providing valuable perspective. Your life may feel like a train wreck now, but you'll have it cleaned up in short order. Congrats on getting rid of the baggage and learning about her now. You'll rebuild; bigger & better.
This was how I got into RP.
Be the oak, the alpha, the chad for years. soon as you looked back for reciprocity? That's when you realize your plow horse status, to be turned into glue once outlived your usefulness.
Professionally, and relationship-wise. Both lessons simultaneously
Same here. I got turned into glue too. 2 years ago I wanted to die. Today I've never been happier!
You HAVE to take this L like THE man. I feel your pain, but life is calling for you to step up to a higher purpose right now, and it's up to you to make the most of it.
Thank you man, i will keep laser focus on all these things.
The main issue is money right now, but thankfully i know i'm way more prepared to achieve success now because of better habits i developed over the years.
Great outlook. Also - try not to let this experience affect your self-esteem or make you salty towards all women. Just know the game.
See: Parable of the scorpion and the frog.
Best of luck, bud.
It only hurts cause you invested,attached and believed in her.
Been there done that, most of us here have, biggest mistake you can do now is blame yourself.Don't.By all means learn from it and analyze your shortcomings, but don't think it happened cause you are "beta" or whatever shit makes you rationalize it.
If you scroll back to the hot page you'll see a boxer 10x more "alpha" and successful than you or I or pretty much anyone in here, and guess what? He's still getting divorce raped.
That's just the cold reality of today's women, they're all capable of being lying cheating ruthless cunts, so to avoid becoming a trainwreck like now, you simply don't invest emotionally in them.
And like the good old saying in here goes: "She never was and never will be yours, it's just your turn."
You simplified it perfectly.
I was deeply invested before finding TRP, and i didn't get my shit together after TRP either.
I've learned my lesson. And i don't blame anyone really, it its a huge blow to my ego but i know it happens with men much better than me. Fuck my ego.
I have to make things happen for my mission right now, so i can be proud of myself for the goals i attained. No woman in this world is worth being a goal or make yourself proud of having her company.
I'd add to your celebrity billionaire getting divorce raped comment, that she's gonna be divorcing him because she found someone else. Someone better than the handsome billionaire. If it happens to them, it happens to us all.
The thing is though that OP went through atleast 3,5 years where she was all his. Perhaps a bit less who knows. It's his fault for not knowing that nothing is forever and recognizing he was losing his mojo. Always be aware when you take an SMV hit. Know when the curtain call comes up.
Sure when your relationship blows up within a year or even two, that's fucked up. The girl is mostly to blame for either getting with you despite not feeling it or being so critical she killed her own feelz. But I see this so many times where guys act surprised when their LTR blows up before the next edition of the Fifa Worldcup.
I mean jesus look around you. Couples always break off around that time. You occasionally have these 6+ years pairings where both parties are scared or something. But most die within 3 or 4 years. This is also a healthy number. You got to enjoy the phases of a relationship together. You had her in your bed 12 months a year. You fucked her more times than you can count. You learned about her and what kind of person she was. It's okay. When a relationship is cut short all these possibilities are taken from you, you end up with nothing. But 3-4 years is a great deal and honestly already to long in my opinion.
I think accepting this reality is exactly what he should do. Ignorance is not innocence.
It is his fault.
This is nothing new. Their biology has nothing to do with "today".
I'm sorry to hear that, dude.
I actually had a very similar thing happen to me, except I was only dating for 6 months.
Turns out the whore cheated on me at the beginning of our relationship, because she wanted to "make sure what we had was real". It's fucking laughable. I literally sent her laughing emojis and called her a skank as I blocked her.
The same deal with me, I thought she was perfect, and she told me honesty was so important to her and that she would never lie. However, she acted like I have trust issues or am insecure, when in reality I knew something was up. Then she lied to me about something minor, just like you.
Then I knew it was time to act on my suspicions. And then it all came out and I was shell shocked. What the fuck, you selfish piece of lying shit. She had the gall to say stuff like:
"I'm suffering for my mistake, isn't that good enough?"
"I didn't love him, isn't that what matters?" (HAHAHAHA)
"Everyone makes mistakes, can't we start over?"
Literally comical. As I said, I literally laughed at her because I had already gotten emotionally detached as I found out she lied to me.
Anyway, that's when I started reading more manosphere stuff and realized that what we went through is the NORM. How many cucks get cheated on but never find out? At least we had the logical reasoning to oust these sluts.
Thanks for the feedback man.
Yes it hits you hard to care for someone and believe their lies, just to find about everything later.
Liars will gaslight you, make you feel like an insecure and paranoid boyfriend. I'm just so fucking grateful that it happened after i found this sub and read everything on the manosphere.
We all have one of the greatest tools to taking control of our lives back and it's here for any man to read and apply. No woman will ever take from us what we learned.
Man your story is eerily similar to mine. Dated a girl for 6 months. We were introduced through a buddies wife, so I figured there was some level of vetting that had taken place for my buddies wife to set us up. Turns out, for the entire six months, she was still with her "ex" who knew nothing of my existence. I called her out on it and she called me a stalker. I didn't respond and I never heard another word from her. That's when I started reading TRP.
Bitches be fucking crazy.
"You found out I'm fucking someone else? What are you a stalker?...creep"
....sigh
Never let anyone set you up with a chick
Never let anyone set you up with a chick
God if I had a dollar for every chick that told me back going all the way back to middle school I'm sure I'd be a millionaire.
Then all the excuses she gives you after you find out. Let the shoes been on the other side of the foot and you be the worse person to all of mankind to her and her friends.
6 months... cheated at the beginning...you get serious quick
I am sorry this happened to you. But there is a lesson in this.
Us women(and it does not help us at all,but is the way we are) abondon ship in the sexual department the moment you start perceive yourself as "low".
We may still like you,love you,feel obligated,and care,but our sexual impulse is gone(that doesnt mean we wont have sex,we can amazingly separate having sex from true craving).It just is.
It doesn't matter the reason for your feeling low.If you don't act confident in any and every loss,after a time(month or so)...it's over for us.
Trust me,we don't enjoy it.We hate ourselves for not being able to feel arousal.We try,negotiate with ourselves,drag it out...but it doesn't matter.
If you're feeling low for longer than a month,we can't truly look up to you...meaning,no sexual desire...meaning...it's over,cheating or not.
I am not defending her,I am just trying to make it clear that we don't LOVE our nature.We hate it.But we want what we want.
Word of advice and easy fix that will prevent this from happening again.
Every time you truly feel defeated and you can't help your human self,and you want to cry and scream...do it away from the woman you're with.
Isolate yourself from her.She will plead,try to talk you out of it,give her all to comfort you and such,but...you need to leave.For a few weeks or so.She will never forget the lone wolf strenght you displayed.And women don't cheat on lone wolfs.They are so rare we CANNOT risk to lose them.
This attitude kind of pisses me off. I understand it but its total shit. I'm married, 3 kids, killer job and life. Highly successful. But let me tell you, my job and my investments are tough. They're overwhelming most of the time, and I rely on my wife's strength to help me get through it.
You won't understand and I don't expect you to, but I know who I am and what i represent. I am always on and always grinding and always striving to be the best I can. The fact that women use emotion rather than logic is a very infuriating fact for a majority of men on this thread. But the true nature of the beast as that in order to survive we need each other. My wife is my lioness and I'm simba. This time frame low stuff you spew it out is frustrating because we've all had certain times in our life where our cards don't play out how we wanted them for various reasons. The simple fact is that some women have loyalty and some don't. Us men need to recognize real and make sure our partners are aligned with us.
You established such a long,continuous momentum of being the top dog,your leeway can be measured in decades.
She has your children,day in and out sees you as the alpha you are,and the amount of "feeling low" you get to display is enormous.So huge it will probably never happen to you that she leaves because she's had enough.
However,that doesn't mean she is,unlike all others,inherently loyal.
If I was dating Bill Burr,who is all I ever wanted in one man,he would get to be beta and broke for years and I'd stay. His value is that high in my eyes.
For a regular dude,it's a month.
Bill would find me "one of a kind loyal",the regular dude would think I'm a dishonest whore.
And I am the same.It is all you.
Alls Im saying.
How well do you know Bill Burr?
You love Bill Burr now but you wouldn't have given him the time of day when he was roofing in July as a redhead.
Yup, it's all us and never the dishonest whore. We get it.
WHORES DON'T CARE ABOUT LUMBER.
I remember finding his special "Why do I do this?" almost 5 years ago.I fell in love hard,and then he got famous worldwide,and married,and I am left here pining for him,like a sad little aging widow,knowing I'd give it a shot if we were in a trailer.For a few years at least.
Id give that traitor my prime years.
Lion and hyena relationship comes to mind.No one is really at fault.Both are looking to fuck the other over.Rarely,it ends up bloody.More often than not,there is just a sense of annoyance and hostility.
But we know that lion always has the upper hand.Unless he gets comfortable.
Got it. There's no fault but it's all on men. TRP is indeed a bitter pill to swallow.
However the lion/hyena relationship is more aptly applied to red pill/blue pill men. The prey and its value are singular.
The most painful thing I've ever heard was when my female friend told me she broke up with her boyfriend because he would randomly break out crying after his Dad died "and to make it worse he even cried when she suggested they take a break", her exact words.
My heart genuinely broke for that guy man. He was basically rejected for being human and having emotions other than Alpha.
Crying because your father died and being Alpha is not mutually-exclusive. He shouldn't have done it in front of her, though.
I'm glad you're here. You understand how things are and that this sub really isn't against women. Some people read this stuff and think we are all full of hate. The guys in the anger phase give us a really bad name too. Men and women are different. It's not a good or bad difference, its just different. The whole thing breaks down because men and women both have this idea of how things should be, but neither of us can have it.
Holy cow!
This is actually good advice =)
GREAT thanks for sharing some insights in women's nature from woman's perspective and how to act right in such situation.
Really fresh.
What's your opinion about Rooshs article?
http://www.rooshv.com/the-true-nature-of-women
I can't find one thing in the article I don't agree with.
It doesn't really matter if I was born into Catholic family,into Kardashian family,or if Im sold into sex trade.I will always do WHATEVER it takes to get to what I want.
The true wisdom lies in knowing what you want.
Roosh really changed my life.First I hated him,then I hated myself,and now I hate no one. Masculinity,feminism,feminine women,no one is a threat to you,once you realise no one is at fault for acting as they do. And that is the path I would like to see RP go.
As long as I hate men for not spending money on me when I'm a cunt,and as long as you hate women for cheating when it's only natural for them to do so if they aren't aroused,nothing can be solved,only perpetuated.
Goddam, finally a rational woman
No group might be at fault, but individuals are. Morality exists. We are not total slaves to our nature. Cheaters are weak individuals without morals. They don't respect contracts nor break them out of fear of loss.
The reason that we understand why people do the things they do doesn't exclude them to be awful people that don't deserve our respect.
Can't lie, that was pretty brutal to read. Really insightful though, thanks for your honesty and thanks for posting.
Tbf though why would OP take her back even if she begs? She cheated. He might love her and she might be devoted, but she still betrayed his trust.
No offence, but if you're gonna jump ship in a month, I'm just going to cheat to save myself the blow. We gain nothing from committing to you
Unfortunately,as long as you're not self-sufficient enough no to suffer "the blow" by other's people actions,you're not ready to deal with women.
Or anyone,for that matter.
that's very subtle shaming on your part. Whether you realize it or not. All he is saying is that if that is the deal, he doesn't think it's worth it. I have to agree.
She did basically say if you look like a bitch for a month, you can pretty much bet your women is dry as a bone between those legs. So don't ever look like a bitch for long, preferably, ever, show no weakness.
Exactly. No matter how much she begs you to tell her about your emotions and problems which will make you look low, don't fall for it. It's just her way of pushing her had in the horses ass to make really really sure that there is no shit hiding from her, even tho the horse would be saying no (given that horses can talk in this example, you get the idea).
I look at this like giving candy to a child. Despite the outward frame there's still a lot of candy there. Some of it will taste sweet and make her want more, some will give her a belly ache, but like a child she'll still want more. The trick is to give a small taste of the sweet stuff but leave them wanting more. Even the sweet stuff will give her a belly ache if you give her too much. Small tastes, here and there, keeps her wanting it.
Or rather just how you make your clients addicted to coke. Give them a free batch, they will keep coming for more and you just bring in the cash.
Can confirm. Had a plate push hard, over and over for me to 'open up'. Eventually I did, because whatever. She ended up putting things in motion for us to break up. She was trying to use it as leverage to level up from plate to LTR. But man, she got worse. Ended it after she did some heinous stuff to cause dread.
It's nothing but a test to see whether you are truly clean of worries and there is no other way than just keeping nagging until you eventually cave.
The only true answer is to never cave to that. A man that has no problems, will genuinely tell her that he has no problems and everything is fine. A man that has lots of big problems, should not have a problem by deflecting the nagging and her desire to dig for your shit problems. She should be the least of your problems, and if you cannot deal with her nagging, you can't deal with your own problems and you deserve to lose her.
Care to write a post about this, with a failure an success story? Like, bad example, good example?
Thanks for your comment! Very nice to read. Also, nice to have you on the subreddit!
Thank you so much for being a rare female, who speaks the truth that men need to hear.
Fuck women. Literally too.
Only after having my dick sucked by a married whore did I realize how vile they can be. LTR? Fuck that shit sideways.
Our hairy ancestors passed through worse shit to develop this fucking useful tool we call gut feeling. Trust in that shit.
It's not blue to not trust them, you shouldn't anyway no matter how social you think she is. Where it goes red is when you realize it's only your turn, enjoy it while it lasts and kick the bitch to the curb when she does shit that is unacceptable. I didn't give a fuck who the girls I bang are giving it to, as long as I'm getting it, not contracting diseases, and they're drama free, I don't care. I'm not keeping them, I enjoying the time i have with them. They can opt out or in at any time, it's entirely up to them.
Abundance mentality. When you have it, they can't cheat because the concept doesn't exist.
Brutal dude. You'll get over this, and if this doesn't red pill you nothing will. Couple comments:
First, I've always found the biggest issue men have with these situations isn't even the cheating in and of itself. Its the nonchalance with which women do it. I've hooked up with a girl who left her laptop and Facebook open and I read she said, "I love you" to a dude mere minutes after fucking me. My bro also went through a brutal breakup and he read her Facebook conversation with her bestie about how she should just tell my bro that she fucked one of his friends after they got into a fight, and the bestie laughed at this comment. Most men would have a serious moral dilemma about such behaviour but women just don't. The hamster is very real, and when men realize how women rationalize outright cruel behaviour it really fucks up men's psyche sometimes.
Second, you're absolutely right about trusting your gut. I always think about women cheating like the cashier who steals from the til. One day, a customer overpaid by a dollar, so she thinks "what's the harm, I'll take the dollar". Next time she "accidentally" misquotes a higher price so she gets an extra few bucks. Soon enough she'll just be flat out stealing. The little warning signs are just her stealing a little bit, or she's outright stealing and gotten sloppy.
Good luck to you friend.
"... women rationalize outright cruel behavior..."
The reason it surprises men is because men are rational, and rationalize. They assume women do the same.
But women do not rationalize. If they did, they would be more rational. Instead, women emotionalize. If something makes them feel good, then they'll do it. Even if it's the wrong thing to do. If something makes them feel bad, then they won't do it, even if it's the right thing to do. Emotions are selfish. Emotions don't care about fairness or decency or anything or anyone other than the person having the emotions.
Men don't understand this because our purpose is to protect and serve others. To invent and build and improve to make a better world for everyone. To care for our fellow man, including and especially women and children. We have a hard time imagining the selfish, irrational, immoral emotions women have, and an even harder time imagining that any healthy person would let those emotions run their life and make their decisions rather than fight against them.
Great analogy. I had an ex roomate who got caught skimming from a major retailer she was working for, based on returns. Completely stupid move, obviously didn't understand standard accounting. They let her slide and just fired her. Two years later, she hooks up with a rich businessman and is living the high life as a housewife to a 60 yo dude with a new kid. Sneaky? Yup. Driven? Absolutely. The top end hypergamous women just know how to do what they do.. and they do it well.
Just for the record, by feminist logic you were raped for four years straight!
Friendly reminder that feminism is good for society and to watch out for all the sexist men on reddit that will say otherwise.
I feel for you man, same shit happened to me with my fiance, a LTR of 3 years, and I know what it's like to be literally cut to pieces by a woman's dishonesty.
Believe me though, you got off lightly. You didn't get so far down the route as to be married, share property or to have children with that worthless human being. You could have caught an STD or pubic lice like I did (that's how I found her out, you can't lie your way out of fucking insects in your pubes), women who cheat like this for such a long time are a serious health hazard to you. You did some major Matrix-style bullet dodge there, and even though I bet your heart is in a million pieces right now, be grateful you dodged that bullet and become soooo over that worthless person.
Never take a cheater back. They will take it as meaning that their cheating was ok.
Fuck those people in this sub that say hypergamy is amoral. In a committed relationship, cheating is absolutely immoral. Be angry, and channel that anger into energy to improve yourself with.
Yeah it sucks, but this sub has showed me hundreds of men who got burned way more seriously than me. I am so grateful for getting away scratch free. My ego and self steem took a huge hit, but i can live with that.
The reason we say it's amoral is because from a woman's perspective she can't help it. It would be a moral issue if she had a choice and chose to go feel that way. They can't control their emotions, their emotions control them. If you don't keep her feeling tingles the whole time, she will go and find those tingles. That is an almost impossible task, so that's why we encourage you all to spin plates.
People can choose to be honest and not do things behind a person's back though.
From her perspective she may think she can't help it, but nobody will honestly believe that she couldn't help it 24hrs a day for 9 months straight. She could have and should have said something. The only conclusion is she consciously made the choice to not branch swing or reveal her actions.
I don't mind the decision to change lover, so much as the deliberate concealment.
Thank you. I hate the analogy that women being hypergamous is "just their nature so you can't get mad." People on here say it's the same thing as yelling at grass for being green. Fucking bullshit.
I think a lot of it comes down to conditioning. Some are better than others, some are more influenced by society than others. Some are more influenced by upbringing, etc. AWALT is for the 70-80% that have those traits and can't control them. The 20-30% that are 'good' have a stronger conditioning and moral compass than the remainder.
Women who have nailed how to appear like a unicorn on the surface are some of the most dangerous to get attached to.
"Women are dangerous to get attached to."
There, I fixed it for you.
Women that come off really amazing are either amazing or the worst (often with BPD).
Classic example of not being sorry doing it, but being sorry for getting caught. If you don't believe me, ask the dude if she was crying before, during and after they banged while yelling "I'M SORRY MARK, I'M SO FUCKING SORRY!!!! :'( ".
Women crying after being caught is one of the biggest jokes ever and only a retard falls for that. At that point, they deserve the most disgusting treatment you can think of.
Just one of my higher ups mentioned that you can still love someone, and still bang other people. It fits exactly this post. I have banged other women, he has banged other women, but it hasn't changed out loyalty for our women. Note that "loyalty" may not make sense to you, but loyalty is also in the sense that I won't leave her, even though I fuck other women because the companionship is really good, it's just that the sex died after popping 3 kids and you fuck women on the side to maintain your sanity. An object in surplus will always be abused, an scarce object is valued. Look anywhere you go in your daily life. Men are an object of surplus for women. Become a scarce man, a desired man. In social circles, in professional field, in romance. Become scarce, become desired and you succeed.
Also it happens very often that women flake on dudes that are in their lows. A woman needs a man to bear responsibility for her, he needs to be her rock for everything in her life. Responsibility, consequences, anything. A daddy she can come crying to for cheering up. She loses that the moment you cave and are at your weakest and jumps to the next guy to get cheered up, by his listening, or by his dick, or both. With every day, I am just more in favor of just cheating behind your spouses back because either way you win. Either she is fucking someone else and you too, so that makes it even. Otherwise she's the loyal one that gets cheated on, but that wouldn't happen if she would just fuck me so often that I don't need anything more. Nature is beautifully cruel, remember that. Suddenly you wake up and you're in this beautiful world hopping around in sunshine and the greenest grass you could even imagine, 10 minutes later fallen prey to an eagle, your skull pierced by it's talons and ripped apart to be fed to its babies and there is noone that will give a fuck about what happened even just seconds later.
I am sorry for you, but it seems you are mentaly ready to recover. The lover who informed you is a honorable dude. He didnt gained anything by doing it and he lost a plate but still informed you.
hey man my 2 cents, something similar happened to me also after 4 years of LTR, in my case she got dicked by some beta emo because "She didnt think I loved her". So keep in mind girls are human too, it is very hard to walk the fine line between giving your girl the love she desires and keeping your frame rock solid.
It was hard for me because in all my relationships I was the prize and girls knew it, and watching her make that mistake and regretting it so much to the point of being physically sick, thought me that girls can love you, be obsessed with you and still get dicked by some other loser. All it takes is them feeling insecure and you not noticing it in time.
Sage wisdom. Good people can greatly fuck things up.
I'm kind of thinking that being new to RP philosophy, or only going into it far enough to get the girl, one can run the risk of overdoing it on their own happiness/needs and forget that you still have to give a little when you go the LTR route.
I totally agree with you.
Just to make it clear, as i didn't state this before: i did pass her comfort tests, treated her better than any woman before her. Was always by her side, making plans and letting her know i was only hers.
Sometimes it isn't enough. I don't demonize her for what she did. She wasn't trying to hurt me, she was only putting her own pleasure first.
I don't understand why people think this distinction is meaningful. Plenty of evil, hurtful, destructive things are done with the intent of increasing one's pleasure. Your ex cheating on you is one. Someone stealing a car is another. A group of people starting a war for dominance, oil or money is yet another. There are no limits to the horror that people can do with the "putting myself first" principle. In fact, if we look at people who do things maliciously or vindictively it's the same thing. In the latter case, generally the person feels wronged and wants to get from that pained state to a more pleasurable one and the quick, easy way to do that is to hurt the perceived wrong doer. Then, when people do things for malice they are also satisfying the "my pleasure first" principle because it feels good to do harm to someone you genuinely want to do harm to. There's even a word for the propensity of wanting to do harm for pleasure. It's called sadism and it's a universal personality trait. It seems pretty clear that much pain is caused by people following pleasure and when it's not the case it's generally incidental. As far as I'm concerned, once a person puts their pleasure first they have already opened up the potential for unlimited evil.
In any case, sorry this chick let you down. I, like many guys here, know first hand how devastating romance can be. A potential tip that I haven't seen anyone say is maybe you want to let go of the idea of being monogamous? It seems your relationship would have been fine if you didn't expect sexual exclusivity. Just an idea.
P.S. Are you a fan of Legacy of Kain?
You are on point man.
I just meant it in a way that she isn't the worst person who crossed my path. She did help me immensely when i truly needed.
I'm definitely going to focus on fixing my life first and i will start spinning plates. Being single for the first time since finding TRP is a blessing in disguise. I need to break free from this serial monogamy that plagued my life so much.
And yep, i'm a huge fan of the series haha.
Thanks for the feedback brother.
Read blackdragons blogs. I'm starting to sway to his way of thinking.
I think the intentions do matter yes because they'll decide how you interpret the person's actions. I think there's something very distinct about our experience as human beings such that when we are truly and sincerely, a target of someone's malice, something that they want to see destroyed, just that intent alone hurts us.
There's also the victim complex it feeds.
That's true, but that could be akin to a logical fallacy or a result of common fallacies like the Just World fallacy or the tendency for people to think people are good. It's still something to take into account when thinking about how people process hurtful actions, but that doesn't make it "right" nor does it make it something that should be worked toward being dispelled as much as possible.
And, just to be clear, I'm not saying that people ought to be insensitive to other people's intentions. Knowing where what a person says and does comes from is immensely useful. I just don't know why any analysis of motives after the situation is dealt with is useful or good.
Needed to add some dread in there. Just passing the comfort stuff, show's her she's got you by the balls, and can do what she wants.
Dread got weaker and weaker without me making money. Limited social life hinders a men more than looks or game. She probably started to see me as harmless and felt the need to cheat.
Good assessment. And women are really good at the social life, men are not as tight, overall.
"it is very hard to walk the fine line between giving your girl the love she desires and keeping your frame rock solid."
No dude that's not how it works. You're not responsible for her actions or emotions. Its not your fault she cheated. Its not that you were too alpha or too beta. She was just a hoe and she cheated. That's what hoes do.
You're lucky you learned early the Disney promise was a lie. Women are using us, they do not love. Plan accordingly.
They love, just not the way you want them to.
I think it's important to note something here. She was not cheating from day one, while giving you her devotion and whatnot. She was invested in the relationship until you started to decline. Then you were on the downswing and she branched to another guy.
She only kept up appearances so she could make a clean escape once she'd secured the other guy.
My advice would be a little different:
Unless you and your life are improving, forget investing any time into a relationship. If you're in one and you start declining, do yourself a favour and leave.
We all hit hardships man. Life isn't going to be perfect all the time.
I got fired from my job and was unemployed for two months. Had I told anyone including the women I was dating, they would have thought I was a loser. But after two months I ended up finding a job that paid twice as much.
And the funny thing about your comment is had the shoes been on the other foot for OP and OP left the chick because she was going through somethings, we all know all hell would have broke lose with that girl and OP.
The girl would be calling OP the piece of shit man and all of that.
Stop worrying about the 'shoe on the other foot' stuff. Men are hardwired to protect a woman in need. Women are hardwired to find a strong man that can protect/provide for her. When bad shit happens to a woman, our instincts are to help and save her. When bad shit happens to man, her instincts are to find a stronger man, not stick by a weak (or injured) one. It's ugly and seems evil to the core to us, but that's evolution and biology for you.
What about the wives who care for their husbands rotting away slowly due to Alzheimer's? I only ask because I've seen dozens of them in my time in assisted living/older living communities as a volunteer. A volunteer gig I strongly recommend against, as it were, if you must volunteer (I had no alternative at the time; I was just a kid and my parents thought volunteering was important. I believe it to be horseshit)
Does the dynamic just change as they get older? Or if you stick with someone for forty years, the idea of leaving them loses its appeal? Because these wives who care for their (in many cases) despondent and vegetative husbands are definitely a phenomenon. And there were a couple husbands who did the same for wives, but the reverse was more often the case. For a number of reasons, such as husbands being likely to predecease their wives, men being more likely to get Alzheimers/Dementia, men having them set in earlier, etc.
It always struck me as odd, because even if you are incredibly loyal to your husband, I don't consider that vegetable in the bed that you turn every three hours so he doesn't get bed-sores to be your husband. It may have been your husband at some point, but he's gone now.
I'm lucky enough to have found a man that I love a great deal, but if he were post-Alzheimers and in a vegetative state, I would not care for him. And if I were in that state, I'd consider myself dead and would not expect or desire him to care for me.
Yup :/
My advice was mainly for people in relationships where they see every step of the [most likely temporary] decline.
Unfortunately that isn't sustainable long term as the road to self improvement is full of peaks and valleys.
The comment I was looking for here.
People tend to blame women for leaving them at the time they hit the ground, and yet they tend to call themselves "redpillers". But they don't seem to know basic principles of women picking partners.
A man will always look first at girl's beauty. And it seem everyone is ok with that. But when women pick a partner who she thinks will be her rock, good provider etc it's considered bad.
This girl just saw her man declining, IT wasn't the man she hmm... Fell in love? With. This man was gone and she was looking for better one, found him. But she also was keeping up in case her old man will recover or lose it all.
Imagine, if you were with a fit, beautiful girl and after 2 years she changed to fattie ugly whale would you still enjoy sex and be proud of your gf? I think not, so does she. She just has other needs.
So, in case you want to keep your snowflake you must never fail such big. You must be rock solid. In other case she will look for one who will.
Sounds like a shitty experience, but don't let it define you. Go out with some true bros and when you are by yourself, just look at your own needs and work on those instead of giving the her any of your brain's processing power.
Also whatever you do, don't seek out the answer to why she did what she did. It doesn't matter.
Also, the whole alpha/beta thing is not real. It was based on very bad zoological research that has since been proven false - and it was about wolves, not people. You are neither alpha nor beta. You are a person.
And this is not "the first time in my life i have gained the self-awareness to understand how to make meaningful change to my relations and myself". You have spent your entire life growing and learning and changing, and you made a big change when you retrained your brain not to be jealous and controlling of the women in your life. There's no need to be overdramatic; this is one episode in a (hopefully) very long life.
"You guys can sit here and chatter about ‘seductions’ and sprawling posts that compare yourselves to alpha dogs, wolves, wildebeests, cavemen, and Norwegian rats, I’m going to reside in flesh and blood, those two greasy planes where life forever flows. - The Pook
This was back in like 2005~
Sorry to hear all this man i can relate 300% as this sounds very similar to an experience i had. All i can say is that after this you will become harder and tougher than ever before. With this knowledge, You no longer will fall into the hands of deception because you have lived through it in the flesh. Welcome to a new world of enlightenment the worse is now through, take this experience and learn from it, in time all wounds will heal and with that you have leveled up to a new form of Man. One that sees all possibilities not just the ones that his primal emotions wants to see.
I gave a thought about this "new world of enlightenment" , i feel like shit will soon hit the fan , this going against the laws of nature what society is doing is going downhill very fast . People are ANIMALS, the word ANIMAL is what is not written in any constitution around the world, the laws have shifted the perception of reality beyond the point of coming back, it is fucking disguising.
She realized she needed a new basket to lay her eggs into.
You know what makes you better than 99% of us?
You've already turned this into a lesson; grin and bear it motherfucker. We're with you.
The pitfalls of acute Oneitis.
Always remember, LTRs are gambles not investments.
LTRs are gambles for men, but still investments for women.
I agree with you. I was already deep in this relationship when i found the manosphere and decided to keep working on it just because she was "perfect". There are no perfect partners, people will eventually fuck things up. My life/mission is the only thing worth investing emotionally.
“Why do we fall, Sir? So we can learn to pick ourselves up.” - Alfred, Batman
You are ahead of the curve if this is your analysis. Keep it up.
"Would you call that cognitive dissonance or what?" The cognitive dissonance here is yours and yours alone. You expected something different?
"if she is a cheater you will never know until it's too late." Drop the word "if" at the beginning of this sentence and "until it's too late" at the end and it will make a lot more sense.
OP I'm sorry to hear this, but I'm sure you will become a much better person and man overtime.
Honestly her behavior is sick and no matter how much of a jerk I can be at times, I would never betray or fuck someone over like these women are constantly doing.
Try not to beat yourself up too much. We're human and us guys do have feelings. You did find out, and she's a cheating bitch.
The good news is, you didn't marry her and you don't have any kids with her. Ask the old guys how bad they got it after a divorce. Once you get your financial stuff together, you'll come on top and a much better person overall.
I've been in your shoes twice in my life. The first time was much tougher than the second. My advice to you is to get your ass in the gym. It was the only thing that took my mind off her, and it accomplishes shit at the same time. Sorry for your shitty situation man. Shit gets better over time though, trust me.
Believe me man, my workouts have being a blessing in this situation.
I was already working hard before shit went down, currently am in my best physical shape.
Crushed my training today even though i barely slept. Anger is one hell of a stimulant drug.
One day at a time, thanks for the support.
Well, heads up to the side-dude who had the balls to send you a msg and didnt act like a bitch.
I am curious, can you give us some further info on the girl? As you say, her "mask" is awesome and she "seems" to be the perfect girl but she is not. To my knowledge, that an indication of psychological problems that she might has or problems with her family.
Its strange man, we men do our best first for ourselves of course, women get attracted because they realise that , AND STILL they do stupid shit. I strongly believe that they should be a reddit page that addresses that behaviour women have(probably some man have it too) and start provide solution. Its like a Beta thing but different
Wish you the best man
Thanks man.
The red flags where there since the beginning, i just ignored every single one out of oneitis. A girl can be sweet, high sex drive and pleasing to you, but if she has issues with herself she will destroy even the most incredible relation she ever had.
I consider her highly narcissistic and hedonistic. She was getting a rush out of doing this behind my back, she craved other males attention and that guy was there at the right time. She might have cheated with others too.
It really fucking sucks, but i will survive this and become a better, more prepared version of myself.
kick ass username. Make it apply to others
I will, brother.
Today i may be on my knees but it's only the beginning.
There are no cheater women.Nature is AWALT. Given the right moment and a better SMV male than you , you are off. Read the sidebar again and accept it.
Why blame yourself ? You did the right thing . Who cares if it's beta or alpha. You went with your gut . Now do it again.
Edit: Go ahead of the curve. You can plate her and don't let her know you are cheating. This way you are getting pussy and looking for other pussy. Don't care about feelings. Sex is a primal need and you should have access to it anytime for your well being.
There are cheater women, they get off on doing it.
Not always true my man had a birch pull this shit with a dude who had 4 dui's no job when they started talking and lived in a trailer with his 60 year old mother. On the other hand I made more money had my own house more attractive than the other dude. Just that her and him are two alike peaces of fuck so they are alike. I don't buy the SMV shit tbh I'm sure it is for some situations but not all.
SMV is not only money and who owns a house. Read the sidebar.
The first step is admitting you have a problem. So welcome. It gets much better from here.
Discovering your girl's lying is nasty. Hits you straight in the vulnerable ego: how dare anybody lie to ME? And especially someone who professes to love me? Is that all a lie too and I'm a complete fool?
The blue pill way to deal with it involves deciding that "Nah, I'm not a fool, she's just a bad, bad woman."
On TRP you can learn a better, reality based way to deal with this, where you force yourself to realize you're nothing special, it's OK. People will lie to you, and make you a fool. You become OK with being a fool, even the kind that gets fooled with a woman's love. It takes the ole' ego down a notch or two, but it is also very liberating. Now you can take a few stabs in the back even from those closest to you, and keep on trucking (without them of course).
The bottom line is that it's not your "essence" or whatever that is experiencing the trainwreck suffering, not the true self. Those are the ego's aches and pains, and in a way there's some masochistic pleasure you can derive from that if you want to. The thing that is suffering this defeat and humiliation so bad is itself bad, and your enemy. The more it suffers, the more you get better across the board in life. That's why so many dudes on TRP become inexplicably thankful to all those horrible ex's that betrayed them and caused them to hit trainwreck rock bottom where the truth was found.
I'm no stranger to that feeling myself.
Each fucked up thing that happens to me makes me enjoy the pain more nowadays, because that pain signals the growth that is coming soon afterwards.
There is no reason to ease the pain with drugs and alcohol either, it's here for me to never forget this lesson.
Just be thankful that you don't have kids / mortgage /marriage with her. Take it from me.... It can always be a helluva lot worse.
Best of luck broheim
let me put it like this.. "love" is an evolutionary trait that was needed for a male to stick around to protect the female from the dangers of the outside world while she's pregnant and after birth to ensure the survival of the baby and the species. if the male died in a battle with a sabertooth tiger or whatever, the female immediately went in search of another male to protect her and her offspring, not giving two fucks about the first male. insuring the survival is the main goal.
thus, hypergamy is a thing because the female always sought a better candidate to protect her from dangers. this still exists today, not but the dangers are in the form of low finances, etc.
don't give in to your primitive brain.
Listening to my gut was the best thing I could have done when it came to an old LTR and cheating. Figured that shit out quick and acted on it. Seriously, after months of diet correction, working out and actually being on a fair number of dates, you learn to really not give a shit and see that there are so many more attractive women then the slop you settled for beforehand. Rose coloured glasses are real man. It'll get better, focus on you.
All women have side dick... Period. All women are fucking liars... Period. I have fucked so many women who were in relationships it's not even funny. I used to fuck this one woman in our office, her husband worked 2 doors down...
Dude, sounds like she was GOING to leave ya....so she gives ya a severance package for a few months, what's the big deal? Your relationship was clearly fuckin over, no offense, from what you're telling us, so to me, from her perspective, she really was being nice to you and helping you out in an emotionally difficult time in your life.
I don't mean this the wrong way playa, but I'd go a little easy on her if you can bring yourself to. She's a free woman, she don't HAVE to give your ass shit. But seeing how fucked you were she threw you a couple bones. I mean, it's cool to not want it, but I don't think she was necessarily going outta her way to be an evil cunt here, dude.
That's just a REALLY tough fucking situation to get caught up in, man, at least give her that lol fuck, I don't know what I'd do if my gf's mom died and I was already 14 steps out the door lol.
That same way of thinking helped me get through a similar situation.
it ain't perfect, and it might not be what you want....
"but if you try sometimes, you just might find...Ya get what ya need"
Could you clarify? Why would you do this? Is the goal to get her to fear for her relationship and stay faithful, or to just end it there? I would be concerned that I would overreact for something actually minor (Though lying is serious, admittedly)
No. The point is that if she doesn't respect you enough to not lie to you while she is with you, she will never respect you enough. It's best to move on to the next one that will.
Just my opinion on this,
The problem itself is not the lie. Is that you caught her lying, she apologized and later what she did? Lied again. I should have ghosted her way before shit went down like this. But i guess the pain is useful because i won't forget this ever.
Have principles, and live by them.
I wen't through something very similar and it absolutely crushed me. You're not alone man and now we just have a different level of awareness and understanding. Now that enough time has passed for me to not feel pain over it; more just feeling sadness for you because I know how much it hurts, I've learned to not put faith, trust, or even love into a woman as the cost to benefit ratio is way to fucked up. Improve yourself and eventually (so cliche sorry) you will be thankful for this whole situation.
Maybe too soon, will make better sense later. But the details of your story show that you were not 'Alpha' and hypergamy got the best of her. Just because you 'believe' you dealt with all your problems like a champ, doesn't mean she perceived it that way. You regressed materialistically, you were in a weakened state emotionally and financially. She didn't 'hold you up', she took pity on you. You perceived sex with her as everything is OK. Woman use sex to validate their emotional state, a man should never do this.
I.E.
Woman: "You fucked me, so this means we are OK". (no man should ever equate sex with his own emotional stability)
Man: sex ... carry on.
Sorry to hear it bud. I had the same issue with my now ex-wife. Found her lying about small things that were irrelevant like buying makeup or perfume, and ended up finding out that she was living a double life for years. It was extremely rough.
Sorry to hear. Whatever happens, life is always worth living.
On a side note, I actually sent a FB message to my ex's new boyfriend, because my ex started making with me while she was wearing her boyfriend's sweater. I told the guy a couple facts that my ex lied about, and he chose not to believe them.
At least you are willing to accept the truth. Some guys aren't even willing to do that.
Good luck!
Humans, especially women, are not monogamous.
Good post OP.
You have a bubble with a woman. It might be a very nice cosy bubble.... but when you're out of sight, you're out of the bubble and out of her mind. She probably won't fuck a homeless guy, but if left alone with him for more than a few hours she might.
This post is an example of the risk you are taking when you commit to being exclusive with a woman. The risk is that she is not being exclusive back, and why should she be? It makes much more sense to her to just pretend that she is faithful. That way she gets security from us, and doesn't restrict her other-dick options much.
Conversely men back-slide while in exclusive relationships. We grow soft. We forget how to pick up other women. We forget that we need to. We delude ourselves about the nature of this one super special woman, forgetting that she is exactly the same as all the others. We believe the bubble. We think it's real. We think it exists when our back is turned.
And when it's over, we're left with nothing. She's jumping on the next cock even if she wasn't already, we are left regretting the wasted time, the missed opportunities, realising we should have gone to the gym more, spent more time with friends, and not made any sacrifices for her at all.
Always always always realise that one day it will be over. She isn't yours, it's just your turn. Live your life accordingly.
So true.
The first two years before finding TRP i did make a lot of sacrifices for her. I thought i was impressing with my morality.
After reading so much i corrected my views on the status on monogamy. I don't necessarily agree with lying and cheating, but if there are no consequences for this shit, you might as well have some before it all goes to hell.
Fuck the bubble, i want out. I will take the pain with me as a badge of honor.
Boy, being raised in a devout Mormon household, that whole making sacrifices for her thinking you are impressing with your morality hits close to home for me. Even after I lost belief in Mormonism, that wiring of white knighting stuck w me for years.
Did she really try to ask for your forgiveness and try to keep you in the relationship? That is insane.
Yo, this sounds like an exact copy-paste of my experience from years ago.
What eventually happened is that I became friends with the other dude. We both realized we got played, and we both faced it together.
Hindsight is 20/20, and after some time I learnt that the signs were there all along. Not just red flags, but signs of not 100% interest on her part. You will think now that she seems "very interested" and all that, but trust me after some time you will begin to realize the warnings were there all along. edit: a woman can lie all she wants but her eyes always betray her
The reason the sex was still great and she seems devoted and blahblah all that... is probably because in her eyes, you are probably still the so-called "alpha" one. The other guy is the backup plan. She just isn't SURE yet... In my case, what we found out was actually that the girl flaked on him even more, gave him the cold shoulder even more. In fact, she was just preparing him to be the beta provider. He was a model, rich, but otherwise he's a complete whiteknight beta, no excitement whatsoever. Useful only to prop up her social status. Your story might be different, but I guarantee you she was setting one of you up to be the "main plan", and the other to be the "backup plan". That's just how hypergamy works.
In my case, the girl will eventually, through sheer luck or something, be in the same internship as me. She begged and begged and tried every trick to get me to take her back (the other guy didn't even hear from her) and it shot my ego through the roof. But none of that matters. She has disqualified herself long ago, and it took a lot of willpower to remain polite and professional to her, yet never going beyond that.
The most important thing is that you not get bitter from this. There are better fish out there, as long as you don't develop One-itis again you're good. Both me and the other guy grew a lot from this, and today we're enjoying life.
All the best, I hope this story helps you.
Damn. I feel for you man.
Some questions -
Was she a party girl? You mention that some of her lies revolved around not going out with girls. Did this change as you dated or was she never a girl that went out to bars?
What was her partner count before you two got together?
How did she meet this guy? Tinder, bars, social circle?
How much were you providing for her?
Did she bring up kids and how did you respond?
Trying to help diagnose where things went wrong. It might have been a 1% deviance from your typical dominance and that was enough for her to slip (but usually it's high risk girls like party girls that will cheat after slight slipping)
Given the length of the relationship, I think kids was the biggest factor. Relationships have one goal - children. If after 2 years, there's no kids, relationships usually devolve.
Thanks for the reply man.
She was definitely a wild card before we started dating, what big city good looking young girl won't be riding the cc hard? I didn't screen her at all, haven't learned about the manosphere before i was on the mindset of "fuck her past, she's with me now".
Never had this discussion really, but i know it was high no doubt.
She was taking dancing classes. Told me it was great for her to stay in shape... Yeah i knew one of those "gay" guys she mentioned would dick her on the first opportunity.
We met when i was rolling high and she was broke af, i always treated her good without being a total silly beta provider.
We did talk about making a family, she wasn't big on kids but we agreed it would be awesome when we were better off financially.
I agree that our evolution plays a part on that long time losing interest. Rollo mentions this too i believe, monogamy is nature's strategy to bring up better prepared kids to this world and even if she doesnt want kids, after some years she might feel something really is off because there is no pregnancy.
Okay, so a few notes.
The CC isn't always a thing. CC for one girl can mean 20 guys in a year, it could mean 3. It's been shown that more beautiful girls (facially, not hot as in big tits/ass) have lower lay counts and rarely hookup. Coming from conservative background, even if they move to big city, also lessens partner counts. But yeah, if she parties and drinks regularly (at least a few times a month), I'd designate her as a party girl and they're really high risk. If they drink, their normal feelings of "my man is going through a hard time but is tough about it" becomes "my man is going through a hard time; I need someone stronger." Some women do have self-restraint but alcohol, as you know, lowers that. Also, it's a feedback loop. Girls who are healthy and happy don't party very often. They usually have good relationships and don't feel the need to party (partying is about one thing and one thing only: getting laid. "Having fun" is not a thing for women, because the best thing for a girl is dick. And best thing for men is pussy).
Yeah, once a girl hits 15+ lay count, she starts to think like a man. She disassociates love from sex and can even start notch-counting.
Dance classes are fine. I like dancer chicks. Yeah it's not the best for monogamy but she can't be a complete shut-in. Those girls are boring, imo. But it does present a great opportunity for new mates. It's not this that killed ya but the other things.
Oh, not good. Pulling a Pretty Woman where you bring her out of poverty isn't great for fidelity. Too much investment on your part, too little on hers. You can be an alpha provider, but only if she's pulling her weight with taking care of kids or also has a job.
Girls should be pretty excited about kids by 4 years in. If she's not, not a good sign.
So, even though on the surface it looks like a great relationship, there were some fundamental problems (mostly her personality) that hurt the chances of faithfulness.
This is a good thing actually. It wasn't a "women are all cheating liars AWALT!" thing. It was a very clear example of party girls with high lay counts being impulsive. Screen for better LTR qualities next time. Even the top stud in the world can't keep a high-risk girl faithful.
These posts make me a paranoid little fucking looser. It's eating me up from the inside. Yet the only thing you can do is trust her untill proven otherwise. And that's is a hard fucking truth to realize
I feel exactly the same. I was never paranoid until I came here, but I'm staying anyway.
Pretty much.. The only reason i didn't leave before was because i felt i needed EVIDENCE.
The thing is, the constant small lies are a dead giveaway.
Pay attention to what she does, always. Stay ahead of the game brothers.
Sorry, brother. They all do this. I was married and man, she was ULTRA sweet, flirty, fun in bed. She chronically cheated until she finally left because she fell "in love" with another guy (she cheated on him though and got genital herpes and they're no longer together - so take a little comfort in knowing they do it to every last one). Next girl I thought was surely the one, we were together 4 years, she started showing all the signs the ex did, but she was smart enough I could never prove it. But where there's smoke, there must be fire. Anyway she ultimately left. Said we just weren't a "forever couple". Whatever that means. Bottomline, you don't show all the signs of cheating and leave a 4 year relationship with a man you've already discussed marriage and kids with to "be single". Laughable.
Moral: Don't bother committing. It's just an illusion, a waste of your years. They'll ALL eventually get enticed by another cock and hop back on the carousel, no matter how good you look or how much money you make. Without fail. So just keep getting your dick wet and focus on your own body, career, and lifestyle. Spin those plates like a fuckin' DJ.
"Women are like monkeys - they won't let go of one branch until they're swinging from the next."
this is something i'll never understand.. she was totally fine cheating on you, lying to you, etc..
but the second she finds out you know, he crumbles.. lol. kinda creepy when you really think about it
"Being alfa only changes the PERCEIVED respect she has for you. Sure it's great to have her give you lots of sex, company and even monetary help, but if she is a cheater you will never know until it's too late. She will treat you like her king while still getting side dick."
Thanks for writing this because I've been preaching it for a while. A lot of guys think that being Chad makes you cheat proof and that your SMV should be so high that your girl spends most of her waking hours doing stuff for you to not lose you. That's retarded thinking and pure fantasy. She will cheat no matter what you do. You max out your SMV, she gets real insecure and thinks you've already been cheating on her. So she goes out and cheats on you repeatedly because "You cheated too" by assumption.
You guys need to understand that nothing you can control the mind of another human being. At the end of the day, she will do whatever the fuck she wants to do, regardless of your SMV. And to have you walking around like you're hot shit thinking you can't get cucked, makes it even way funnier and humiliating when the news breaks out that you've tasting some other guy's cum in her mouth This whole time.
For me. I view being in a LTR a version of being mgtow. You simply have sex on tap so you can focus on yourself, work on your business etc without being backed up and having to wast your time seeking a cum dumpster. you can only do this if you are strong enough to avoid female manipulation. the woman (emotional teenager) that lives with you should be the one taking non sexual benefits from the relationship as you are the man and should be on top of your shit. You have to accept that due to taking birth control and social programming etc woman have no biological responsibility to man regarding sex. Enjoy your turn and invest as little as possible in woman but invest as much as possible in yourself.
Exactly. This is what I've learned after years of holding a beta mindset thru high school and (unfortunately) college.
I wonder when this sub will realize that the way you treat women are the reason you get treated this way. You purposely don't get emotional invested in women, then wonder why they do things like cheat on you.
To OP, I feel for you man, cheating is never an easy thing to take. I hope the wound heals with time and you can move forward. But hopefully you learn this subreddit clearly isn't the solution to your problem, and can change in positive ways. While you can learn some good confidence related stuff from acting the way this sub preaches, the way people here think lack of investment and affection is obviously the cause of most of their problems.
Learn from this and continue on, the hardest things in life make us stronger
You moron. They will cheat either way. It's not your fault she cheats, it's hers. You could be a mix between alpha and beta and she would still cheat because you were 0.089% too beta for her taste. You have ZERO control over another human being's thought process or actions. Stop thinking your behavior or attitude can control her mind. If she wants to cheat she will cheat, no matter how good she has it. You could be the literal perfect male, with the perfect balance of alpha and beta, and she would still cheat on you with some unemployed and out of shape gym because "you were just too perfect and it made her insecure".
The time for loyal commitment is long gone. We live in the era of technology and hyper connectivity. A new fuck is only a few screen taps away. If you're RP and you go in a LTR, you truly don't understand the pill.
There are certainly women that are just cheaters, just like there are men who are. But a lot of the time they cheat because they are lacking something from the relationship. "The pill" teaches you to not fulfill her needs, then you act like all women cheat. All women will cheat on you, because you think loyal commitment is gone and act accordingly. What I notice from this sub is a bunch of people who get hurt once or twice, and become jaded and hateful. You're like a kid that falls off his bike a couple times and gets too scared to try again. Yes, women will cheat on you; life sucks and shit happens. But if you think that means all women will, then you're just lost and sad.
I'm the kid that fell off his bike on a jagged road. I've since learned not to take that road again and to consider that all roads have/could have hazards on them can make me fall of my bike. It's not my bike that's the problem it's the road.
So you admit to giving up because something something is hard. That explains a lot. Women want a man, and a man doesn't shy away from a challenge. So you can go take the easy road, and real men will take the hard one with the greater reward.
Okay cuck. You don't get no points in life for being a moron. That whole "a real man" bullshit can go right back up your ass my man.
Spoken like a true child. You'll notice other struggles in your life related to your quest for the easy path. Nothing good in life is easy, which is why people like you who want to take the easy way are always so depressed.
I don't know man from what you've said this woman was willing to stick with you during your lowest moment in life and she was so good about it that by your own admission you became addicted to it. According to you, she's done a lot for you(at least emotionally) but you say that you've been pretty stoic about your relationship.
So honestly what did she have to gain out of your relationship that she couldn't get anywhere else. Even the great sex you attribute to her and not you. So far you haven't mentioned any reason why this woman should be in a relationship with you except for the fact that you've been stoic during your relationship.
Look, man, I get it AWALT but sometimes it's just you man. Honestly, I can imagine you being a shitty boyfriend during your grief and I can see why she'd branch swing.
Sorry man at the end of the day the problem was with you not her.
Thanks for the feedback man, i appreciate your angle.
All throughout the relation i've being pretty self-aware about my actions and how it influenced her, 2 years in and found TRP i could see clearly in retrospection the ups and downs. I became better with frame and how to handle her shittests, she always acted with high effort to please, treated me like her prize.
Even thou i got fucked by the circumstances i always made everything within my limited power to game her and keep the interest high. I think it was inevitable that having met me at my financial and security high, it would be a huge stress to now see me on the downside of events.
I wasn't perfect and i know it, depression can hit hard sometimes. I think she sticked with me because she believed in my ambition, she knows im driven and can accomplish shit. But it was too much to see me going through hell, im hurt as fuck but i can't blame her.
You guys will never understand...
The moment you commit to a girl you instantly become vulnerable...There is no alpha, game or red pill thats going to save you...
You're right. But we do understand. LTR is red pill on hard mode. Married Red Pill is the place to go if you're happy to stare into the abyss.
Sounds nearly identical to my experience. Trust gut! Don't trust words.
Like you say in closing, you will only come back stronger from this. You'll find the track "housewife" on 2001 by Dr. Dre will provide both wisdom and comfort for your current situation. You cant make a hoe a housewifeee
That's what you tend to get these days for believing in relationshits.
The only part I really care about and can confirm is that lying about the little stuff is a big red flag.
Your life sounds like it has come apart use the rubble to build something better. Sorry for your circumstances thanks for your post
All women,(people?) lie remember this, they are better at hiding it then males are but when they start slipping and you catch them, drop them. Usually means she's stopped caring to cover her tracks and has little to no respect for you left. Condolences on the emotional torment you going through mate.
Bitches ain't shit but hoes and tricks! Snoop Dogg.
If you want loyalty and unconditional love, get a dog. These hoes ain't loyal.
I was in a similar situation. I feel for you. The good news is the worst is over. Be thankful you found out now before she moved in, got married or had kids together.
Wishing you good vibes, man. I'm sorry this happened to you.
Sometimes shit just isn't your fault. And you gotta let it go.
If I read this right, you only found out because the other dude contacted you?
"You can't turn a ho into a housewife".
Truer words have never been spoken. Also, what part of NO, LTR/Cohabitation with women don't you guys get? Pump and dump be a PUA. Spin some plates. Move on. Derp.
Hey man. I feel for you. I wish you nothing but good shit.
I know exacty how this feels. It's so weird because. for some reason. your story hurts me too.
that's why always leave yourself some room to maneuver. never bet everything on a woman or anyone ever.
the older I get the more I start to realize that there really is no one there for you but yourself. not even family. they'll be there only upto a certain extent.
Im sorry for what happened. Its an incident like this that made me adapt an outlook of "I'd rather be the cheater than be the one being cheated on". it hurst so bad to be on the receiving end of cheating. I know. I've been on both ends
Whats intriguing about this post and the comments below is
you can tell that a lot of guys here have been in the same situation. and I'd argue they've come to the red pill because of similar situation. this was the trigger that opened our eyes and shattered our fantasies about love and life.
which is both beautiful and sad at the same time
I'm at the point where I don't think romantic love actually exists as most people define it. I think "love" is only a tool people use to manipulate others, most likely primarily a female weapon. I think the trick for men is to avoid being caught in the spell in the first place, because once the witch casts the spell it's pretty fucking hard to fight it.
The more aware I become about TRP, the more I think that MGTOW is not that bad as it initially sounded.
Stories like yours, my friend, just confirm the true nature of women. I honestly believe that today, in our society where women are free, even encouraged to "listen" as much as possible to their sexual impulses, there is not such thing as a LTR.
LTR is just basically no longer possible, believing otherwise is believing in unicorns. Period.
That's fucking sad, I know. But truth will set you free, not happy.
Women can't be trusted.
Focus on yourself and learn to become independent to women's love, the most powerful (and dangerous) drug.
Instead of going full MGTOW, why not shift your thinking in a way that prevents from you getting seriously attached. Wouldn't have to give up banging chicks that way, while also not letting yourself be let down.
What changed in February? How soon after losing your apartment was it? Was this the first guy she cheated on you with?
Absolutely nothing changed man, that's what fucked my head the most. She even was excited that i was moving closer to her.
The dude said it started by the end of february. I was evicted march 3rd. She cheated days prior to me losing my apartment.
I have no evidence from other guys, but after my gut instincts proving i was right all this time... I just know she did this more than once.
I hope you realize this started long before February. AWALT
for the first time in my life i have gained the self-awareness to understand how to make meaningful change to my relations and myself.
excellent!
this in itself is worth all the mindfuck and heartbreak you've been through
at least now you have TRP to keep you on track
It's true that 'time heals all wounds' ... as does a good fuck or two with some uber HB
take it easy mate ... many of us have been there to some degree or another so you're far from alone
This may sound harsh, but the employment situation and the whole picking you up when you were down thing probably contributed to this. If a woman has to "be there for you" like that, it is in her nature to resent you for your perceived weakness, even though she may hate herself for feeling like that. We here all know that society at large is not equipped to provide emotional support for men in times of crisis, and that your lot is to suffer in silence. If you attempt not to suffer in silence, you will be punished for it in some way, shape, or form, as is what probably happened here.
"Admitted and ask for forgiveness"
Oh of course!
Damn dude, I feel for you. One of the worst feelings in the world is the betrayal you feel after loving and trusting someone for such a long time. In my perspective I perceive you to be alpha for most of the duration of the relationship by not pestering her and remaining frame most times. I got cheated on when I was 17-18, and had only been with that girl for less than a year. Never wanted to be a long term relationship since then(27 now, had a few girlfriends since then but never ever took them seriously). My heart goes out to you. I'm assuming you know what to do in these situations(I.e. Go out and fuck bitches, work out and exercise, go into monk mode, etc.). Stay strong man, most of us will never find a true unicorn.
P.S. To my red pill brothers, if this guy can't make it, shit maybe there's no hope anymore.
Same happened to me. A perfect storm resulted in me taking a leave from school, losing my home, and spiraling into a deep depression. I was on the precipice of being homeless, and she took me in. I though, finally, NAWALT. We'd been together 2 or 3 years. She started cheating 6 months later. AWALT.
Stay strong man. You'll make it through.
Women going out with their friends - even if they are - are looking for options.
Let it go, fix your money shit, you'll come out the other end better off. Lesson learned. AWALT. You'll be better prepared next time.
Go fuck some thots, you know that you are in good shape if you can do it immediately after a break up, it's life so go and have your fun. You must Remember to not give up on your pursuit of greatness.
I don't understand why you didn't keep her around to fuck her even more - now you can fuck her AND you know she's getting side dick, so you're free to do the same with other women
Win win
They are always looking for the bigger, better deal. If you think she isn't, you are a fool.
See number 1
Damn, sorry man.
What a fucking bitch.
The ability to be totally betrayed by someone like this is a huge fear of most people.
If women CAN cheat, they WILL cheat.
I don't think blowing up her phone was beta, you were just making sure your suspicions were true, and they were. Overt investigation and confrontation is one of the most alpha things one can do in my opinion. It got you out of blindness and killed her lies. Beta would have been to have fabricated some excuse for her or keep believing any lies she told and maintain a relationship. It was a great result for you since now you can focus on becoming better and attracting more women than relying on just one.
Always assume she is getting side action and is interested in swinging towards other men no matter what she behaves like - even if she treats you like a king.
Get your own side action in order to not become dependant.
This way what happened to you will just be expected and have lesser consequences. Good post that serves to illustrate the concepts of hypergamy.
As for you, use any negative energy and direct it towards positive things for yourself such as going to the gym and making money. Make your success your revenge. Focus on other women. You will realize there are no unicorns, some just hide things better than others. Look for her flaws and lies and write them down. Read them every time before you meet and update them after. Once you do this, shit won't matter to you, you won't fall in love again and you won't need to break up since it was already broken in the first place.
Good job.
Man all you guys could save yourselves a lot of hassle if you would just realize one simple thing. They all cheat. They are cheating on you. Stop giving a shit. Go cheat or don't be in a relationship.
You were betrayed by someone who pretended to fully be your ally. Don't look back.
AWALT. All women bro, there's no escaping the truth. I hate seeing my friends in LTRs just knowing what their girlfriends are really like while they are clueless.
Dude, I just fucked a wife in a 3-4 year relationship. She tried hard to avoid it, told me she only cheated once back in the day to get revenge for being cheated on (yeah right, even with me she was texting other guys). I saw it up front.
Well she obviously wanted the thrill and creeped like she was totally in love with me. I fell for it so fucking hard though. At first she told me how much she loved me afterwards, how much more successful, smart, compatible we were, etc. everything her husband wasn't - a guy who was too nice... she wanted the bad boy still - she was an alpha widow.... she later warned me not to fall in love with her, and that if we're together she could cheat on me too, she just didn't know... (uh, she's a cheat addict now).
It took a couple days of ghosting will all my willpower but I finally saw through the instant fell heavily for me routine after sex that completely flattered my ego like no other. I eventually told her I knew there was no love and she thanked me! She said she was tired of the charade when all she wanted was passionate sex as she claims her husband barely fucks her/and doesn't fuck good.
Do I feel sorry for the other dude? Nope, I got cheated on by my first wife. I say all is fair in love in war. It's only our turn with the pussy anyways, enjoy it. Have your guard up always. Hoes ain't loyal.
Parallel to your situation, do you reckon Conor McGregor's wife would eventually cheat on him or something?
Of course yes, when he won't be the top notch MMA fighter out there anymore she will rip half of his fortune and the children (i'm not a fan so i don't know if they have any). AWALT
You say you learned your lesson from previously trying to control girlfriends and failing miserably. What were these failures?
In hindsight do you wish you hadn't taken the lenient laid-back stance that you did with this girl?
Thanks for asking, man.
I don't regret not trying to mate-guard her. The reason is even though pretty much all people can/will cheat given the right circumstances, trying to force someone to respect you usually backfires, you live in constant stress looking for clues of what she's doing wrong. It's a sad place to be.
The more controlling a guy is, the better she becomes at hiding it. Ironically because she was so unused to having to lie to me as i simply didn't ask, she tripped and exposed her inconsistencies everytime.
I have two rules. I never ask questions that I don't want the answer to, and I will never make someone lie to me.
The title is misleading. The girl wasn't cheating all this time. If we want to learn shit on TRP we can't be emotional like women and go from "she cheated the last half year to off the relationship man" to "oh my gawd she cheated allll this time I cant fckin believe it omg!".
Look OP what happened to you was horrible. But you need to learn the lessons. Your LTR lasted a long time, allot of mine broke within the year. This girl sounded great and in the end shit just got to you both. She then cheated the last 6 months of you being together. You can learn from this. When a girl loses interest in you it's always unannounced and a while before you truly break off. That's when she goes and looks for another guy to branch swing to.
Stating that this girl cheated all this time will only fuck up more guys thinking chicks cheat all throughout the LTR. We need facts and real accounts, not feelz. Keep it solid OP. And good luck.
Hey, let me address that.
I have no proof she cheated other times. But i caught her lying since the very beginning, she always gaslighted the shit out of me and made herself look like a saint. The thing is this year i tried breaking off with her at least twice and she would beg me to stay everytime. She was fucking this guy on the side yet beg me and call everyday for two weeks until i agreed to talk to her.
After finding about this shit, it puts every past act of her in a new light and i really believe this dude wasn't the first. A consistent theme of my post was that nothing changed even though she was proven to be cheating.
She knew what she was doing with me, she only regrets getting caught.
If she used gas-lighting odds are she's a abuser. A BPD girl. If that's the case I totally understand your predicament. Since these girls are so unstable and wishy washy. You catch them in a lie and it makes you question everything else. When it comes to BPD women your subconscious knows you aren't special and she isn't just like this to you. However, that's if she truly gaslighted you and didn't just use some feminine trick which is much less severe but can be misinterpreted as gas lighting.
Again if she was BPD it's the old true paradox of "I want him, I don't want him" Everytime you were done you became chasable. And everytime she had you she got bored because BPD girls feel empty inside or shit. They need to constantly feel good, this is only possible by pedastalling a guy who is 'amazing' and having him give her attention to feed off and feel alive.
Had the same happen with my ex gf. She already looked to branch swing to some other amazing guy. But she was afraid he wouldn't hold and I suspect that everytime I removed myself from her life I suddenly became important again. Everything that happened to you can be explained if she truly has a personality disorder. If she doesn't then you just fucked up.
Hmm I get it man. When you get lovebombed you have no eyes for anything else. When it subsides you don't notice the disparity because you care to much for her. Ill give you my insight on this, having contemplated the whole thing myself. Whenever the girl is in 'chase' mode, you are golden. If you also got this it's easily identifiable. Everything you say is funny, great, amazing. She constantly bombards you with messages, she wants to know everything about you. The girl is madly obsessed with you. When this happens these girls truly have no other guy on their mind. It's not even conceivable they would cheat in such a circumstance because it would dictate that they would be chasing the other guy. And they can only chase one.
However whenever you notice her going casual, not acting super girly and charming. Being less off the person you initially met. And this can be very subtle. Could be the way she talks to you or the speed of her responses on WhatsApp. Perhaps she suddenly adressen you differently, less submissive, more like just a guy. If she sends you lots of pictures usually and suddenly this becomes less. Or she isn't as focused on your pleasure during sex anymore. All are possible signs. That's when you need to know she is looking around. And if the behavior switches completely (this is very obvious) she is chasing someone else or she hates your guts and looks for someone else.
Are you sure? I think you must have noticed. The honeymoon phase in the beginning is their chase. When things get solid the chase is over. My guess is that's the moment she could have been at it. Perhaps you had some fights (they need drama, fighting) throughout the relationship. There are characterized by silences (she's looking around) and her begging, apologizing, making up (she's now chasing you). But again I don't know for sure if your girl was like that. But from your initial description of her lies and gaslighting technique it could very well be the case.
If you want to be sure, google BPD in women and read the signs. There are tons of posts around the manosphere that explain personality disorders more in depth with women. It might be false alarm since your relationship lasted 4 years and BPD women rarely manage that without massive drama and fighting. Going from I hate you to I love you.
Anyway I get your point now m8. Don't feel bad for trying to reconcile things in your head. It's a normal process.
Whatever the OP's blue pill beliefs and mistakes, the woman in question has no less than a handful of symptoms suggesting the presence of a cluster B personality disorder.
The fact that there is only one comment out of 300+ suggesting a mental health issue is alarming.
Nothing in his post made me believe so at first glance actually. But OP's follow up comment to mine brought up gaslighting. And only mentally ill people deploy that to the degree where it becomes abusive. Now I can't look in OP's past with this girl. And he's the only one who can make a reasonable accurate judgement. Still I don't think he used that word lightly.
You hit the nail in the head with the BPD observation.
Thing is, the day i found TRP that was the first thing i read that made me seriously think i could get fucked staying with her. Terrible relations with her family, party girl prior to meeting me, loved male attention way too much, talked about abusive ex.
Red flags were there since the beginning, but i was already 2 years in when the manosphere started opening my eyes. She was useful and treated me better than most BPD examples i've read.
My demise was not paying attention to my own instinct. I knew she was hiding stuff, i knew she wasn't the girl she wanted me to believe. I was blind by comfort, and when i did try to leave her, she chased me just as you described.
The lesson i learned from all this is that instict should weight more than evidence when it comes to LTRs specially if you're invested emotionally.
I will survive, the pain is just an useful reminder.
Did you stumble upon TRP looking for answer on how to deal with this girl?
Yeah hands down BPD, now I know for sure. If she talks about her exes and labels them as abusive. Odds are she was abusive and they just retaliated. They need male attention because they constantly have to be validated to feel good, since their default emotional settings are boredom and sadness. Partying, drinking and all that, their all ways for them to live it up and feel something. BPD women also have a hate/love relationship with their family.
They all reside on a spectrum. My ex gf was probably the worst BPD case I ever met (and I attract them at times). Massive big mouth, self loathing, crazy personality and aggressive at times. Hands down closet slut, I can easily admit that now but then it was hard. Then I met another girl who was obviously a BPD but somehow still a virgin. Everything in her was much milder and innocent. And I tested her like hell because I knew what she was, having experienced my ex. That's when I learned that personality disorder is actually the wrong wording. It's not a personality, their all different in that regard. It's just the way they cope with the world.
Despite my ex and that virgin being completely different people sexually, historically. emotionally etc. They both needed to chase for validation to feel good. And simultaneously they yearned for control. But when they had it they grew bored. The way they approach people/men is identical. But apart from that the person they are and the choices their make are vastly different.
How was she the girl you wanted her to be? BPD girls mirror very well yes. Though you will always notice if you are dealing with a slut or with a non.
I have a very interesting anecdote on that virgin girl in regards to what you said about instincts. I met this girl online not particularly looking for anything. I had talked to dozens of girls before I matched with her. And within a second I noticed she was like my ex. At first I didn't understand why and I didn't think much off it figuring I was seeing ghosts. But after getting to know her over the next couple off weeks I knew my gut was right. And I looked back. And what I found was that in her case, the nature of the conversation was vastly different from a normal girl.
Normal girls hold their cards to their chest, the fold all the time, slowly opening up. Not asking to many questions or talking to much until they know they are interested in you. But with a BPD girl their all on the table in the first second of meeting you. They write lengthy sentences to a complete stranger while they ignore their 'abusive ex bf' with one word texts. They want to know everything about you but don't even ask about your day when you know them for a year or more. Everything is intense with them the moment you start talking. When you get a normal girls number, they text slowly. Messages are used for small talk and logistics. With a BPD the flood gates open. They write to you every minute or every hour. They want to talk about all kinds of shit. In person they are the same, energetic and excited- because they are chasing you.
The first time I dealt with such a girl was beyond me. I thought I knew the ropes with girls. Took me a good year to recover from that shit. After that I met a couple girls like her and even though I still hits me when they go from fun to none. I deal with it and move on. Reading about the subject really helped me. You will be fine OP.
Actually i found TRP after learning about MRAs and MGTOW when my father passed away. The reason i got interested in all this was because when i lost my job and knew i would be evicted from the house, my half-sister and mother-in-law both got pensions from my fathers salary as he was in the military. 3k each. And i was denied support because i was a male over 18. Both of them are over 40 and have work, house and cars paid for. Thats what finally opened my eyes and made me admit this entire "patriarchy oppression" is bullshit.
What made TRP stand out from the other two options was how much this sub reminded me of 48 laws of power, a favorite book of mine that helped me immensely to get on the way of achievement.
So yeah, i was lucky to find the manosphere before getting fucked by this girl. I could analyze things and read without anger, comparing to my previous experiences without bias. It did help during the last 2 years of the LTR, but as I've said we were going so smooth since the beginning that i wasn't too much worried. My mistake really.
She pretty much played me the moment i began trusting her 100%. She chased me hard and put so much effort in pleasing me while giving great sex that for the first time in my life i thought "holy shit, this one really loves me". Naturally it was harder before finding TRP to keep my defenses up. After TRP i still decided to trust in her even after recognizing BPD tendencies. She wanted me to believe she was the "repentant slut", an experienced girl that truly changed because she loves you so much. Yeah, we know that shit doesn't happen, don't we?
Thank you for the anecdote, thats really, really interesting dude. I can see how similar your experience was compared to some women i met who i believe were BPD as well. It really can throw you off balance getting chased hard by a girl you want, she makes it seem like we are a special case worth chasing, when in reality she would do the same for anyone she was attracted. Did you notice how some girls do it way too overtly and that creeps you out? Like there is a perfect balance where if she goes a little overboard you immediately feel there is something wrong with her, but if shes subtle you think shes just really infatuated with you. I will keep an eye out from now on.
That's fucked up and happens way to many times. Women get a free pass on everything. The problem is that women always did, but were limited in other areas. Modern society tries to remove these limitations now. Fidelity, body shaming or slut shaming and so forth.
It's somewhat of a miracle you had smooth sailing for two years. Usually things get bumpy around the 3 month mark. After that it's a rollercoaster until things explode. The fact that your girlfriend remained solid does give the impression she's a more stable version of the disorder. It does help to analyze things. Especially in areas where things went wrong. I still find it hard to do this while im engaging with a girl. It's much easier to distance yourself from the encounter once you broke it off with her than while you're dating her. That's a big pitfall specially with BPD girls. You drown in a sea of good times before you realize you're in to deep.
In a way this is true though, for them. The times where they chase you are the times they are infatuated. Even when you are beta or low value they will think you are the greatest thing on earth. Imagine what it is like when you are RP aware, masculine, self improved and high value. It's like crack to them. But like anything with women, emotions are fleeting. Also trusting a girl 100% means you let your guard down and stop reinforcing your boundaries. You always need to draw the line with them or things escalate.
Damn well you should have known. Once a slut always a slut. You should feel disgust learning that your romantic partner has had a bumpy past with lots of men. It's your subconscious anti-cucking defense. Just like women have an aversion towards betas when it comes to sex. Like you said, listen to your gut. Lots of BPD women end up sluts because their disorder constitutes constant change and drama. Which means they burn through guys they once chased. I've met BPD's who were virgins and those who were whores. The disorder remained the same but their behavior always deteriorated the more cock they had had.
It's a breath of fresh air to talk to a girl who instantly lays herself on the table compared to the reservedness most women have. But that's only a front to the whole picture of that girl and it's something she also does with every other guy. So the thing that makes her so fun at the start will neck you in the end. Meanwhile the woman who was reserved will be reserved with other men, so if you LTR'd her in the end she would have been more stable. Such a dilemma I know.
Lots of men fall for this. There are needy men who need that reassurance, betas for example. But it's also nectar to the narcissistic man who wants to believe he is amazing. Psychopaths to who want to maintain their grand image and keep complete control. And yes they do this with every guy they chase. The more satisfying the chase the more intense their charming offensive.
Hmmm that's a very good point. I think most inexperienced or average BPD's constantly slip up in their act. Both when chasing and when cheating. So you will get these weird moments where they seem way to into you in the beginning. I have a good nose for people so I always notice when there is something wrong but I do understand what you mean.
Another thing I noticed which is a funny story in and off itself. Is when I didn't even know about the disorder and I met my ex who turned out to be one. I remarked and teased in the beginning how she was a little bit autistic. And that part always stuck with me when I met these types because they do act somewhat autistic. This makes sense if you consider both are personality disorders and where men can be socially inept women are emotionally inept. Hence borderline. So keep an eye out for girls who appear autistic in nature. Not really ofcourse, but just being weird, crazy and having off behavior. Odds are she's BPD.
Your not in a deep hole.
You found out but you weren't in a sexless situation. I say plate up go no strings.
This is why we need to open up discussions about people's real preferences regarding nonmonogamy. She should have been able to tell people from the beginning that she is nonmonogamous without stigma. She clearly loved you, but knew she could not tell you she wasn't monogamous. If people were allowed to be more open about it, the nonmonogamous people would be "out" and would be involved with other nonmonogamous people, instead of living lies and hurting the people they love.
You learned a lesson here. Monogamy is a real discussion that needs to be had, early and honestly. No one should assume we're all on the same page and that we all value monogamy in a relationship.
I don't think you know what cognitive dissonance is. I find it perfectly normal she would start cheating when you hit hard times.
Just went through something similar yesterday. Five years and found out she was cheating. Cried like a bitch the entire night, was in shock. Got up this morning , thanked God I have side bitches, blocked on all social media and deleted her number. Fuck it. She's never yours, its just your turn.
I'm sorry for your pain.
Indeed it's a huge hit on the ego, but now the truth sets you free. Be your own man, go ahead and fuck 10 bitches and don't take shit from anyone.
Good luck to you my brother.
You didn't have a girlfriend, you had a mom.
You're acting like a pissy 6 year old whose mommy started fucking a new man.
Suck it up and move on.
We've all been there at some point. No need to kick a man when he's down, especially one who is able to keep some perspective.
So she gave you everything you could have wanted or hoped for, but got a little strange cock on the side. Did she neglect you? Did she give you a STD? Did she take your money? Did you get saddled with a unknowingly supporting another man's kid? If not, you didn't lose anything.
It's as if you hire a man to work for you 40 hours a week Mon-Fri. He goes above and beyond the call of duty and puts in 50 for no extra pay. Then you find out he has a weekend gig where he works a few hours for someone else on the side. Would you have a meltdown and fire his ass? Probably not. So why is this different? You got everything you bargained for and more.
If the sex was/is good, keep banging her (wrap it up of course); there's no reason not to. If not, move on
I know man, i feel lucky from having learned firsthand that getting your needs met in a relation is possible. Getting my balls smashed by being a complete beta in the past teached me a lot.
I understand that dropping the LTR status and plating her is an option, bitch management guide is one of my favorite posts in the sub. But i invested emotionally in this girl, 2 years of oneitis before finding TRP did the damage on me.
I need to focus on fixing my life right now, my business, getting to where i want to be. When my head is in the right place i may as well use her as an occasional fuck toy, just not worth at the moment.
Good mindset here. If the bitch cheats, dump her. Reengaging as a plate is fine, as long as it's on your terms.
Downvoted for promoting condom use. I agree with the first part, though. Not like OP lost much from it.
TRP knowledge isn't some magic antidote against STDs; "frame" won't help you against STDs; "lifting" won't protect you against STDs. Being "dominant" won't help you against STDs. "Alphas" get STDs too. Wrap it early; wrap it often.
OP: have you considered keeping her around? She contributes money, esteem and vagina. The emotional stuff is secondary. Maybe it's time you play her.
It's over man,
after getting busted she couldn't handle dealing with me anymore out of embarrassment. I have a feeling that after some time if i contact her again she would feel indebted, but that's for another day. I need to fix my shit, get plates and maybe get her as a side fucktoy. Or don't and just move on without her.
Either way she needs to feel what is like to lose my presence for a long time.
I'm really sorry to hear. I was cheated on by the woman I loved, like so many guys. It permanently changed me. I became more aloof and cool towards women.
I continued my evolution as a man and in my career. Cleaned my diet, got better haircuts, got my abs to pop with better workouts. Advanced in my career enough to hit seven figures.
I'm a both a married and faithful man today, but I do love how woman swoon today when before they would ignore the geeky student.
This is a low point for you. Let it power you to become a better man tomorrow.
I'm really sorry to hear. I was cheated on by the woman I loved, like so many guys. It permanently changed me. I became more aloof and cool towards women.
I continued my evolution as a man and in my career. Cleaned my diet, got better haircuts, got my abs to pop with better workouts. Advanced in my career enough to hit seven figures.
I'm a both a married and faithful man today, but I do love how woman swoon today when before they would ignore the geeky student.
This is a low point for you. Let it power you to become a better man tomorrow.
i dont think it contributes esteem any longer after she's done fucking another man for half a year
True, but vagina is vagina, money is money.
lmfao
if you're in a ltr, want a ltr, or even have thoughts about an ltr you aren't redpilled you aren't even in the damn game lol literally
fact is, if you're in a ltr you're the beta giving your time, energy, and attention to her while she bangs chads in ons while she plays good girl for you
we get your good girls freak sex in 5 mins an hour then we move on to the next hoe no relations lol all while you give your time energy and attention to her
there's a game some of you aren't seeing because you're blind from the game from this ONE girl
being in a ltr goes against the premise of trp if u want a ltr you either
BOTH go against the premise of trp
You're words were harsh but i agree with what you said.
Yes i wasn't even in the game at all. I let her illusion of perfect girl cloud my judgement even after years of reading the manosphere.
I let her game me. You can't opt out of the game, you're either a player or a pawn.
TRP is a tool box. Nothing about being in a LTR makes you blue pill, beta, etc.
Stop posting your cringey repetitive shit all over this sub you dimwit
Our resident 12-year-old has spoken up again I see.