Don't allow people to disrespect you when you've made a mistake.

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September 14, 2017

In society there's this concept we all somewhat adhere to - We keep a running tally in our head of people who are misbehaving (rude, lazy, late, absent, doing something illegal) and we decide at least temporarily that their opinion is of lesser value. People who are behaving properly, working hard that day, being nice, or just first ones to speak up, get a higher value assigned to their ideas. We do mental accounting math to figure out if we should give a shit about someone. The recentness of good behavior or bad behavior amplifies this. In extreme cases, people who make a big, recent mistake, are completely cast aside, and people who've done something really great, suddenly become powerful and everyone listens to them. This is a dangerous mindset to have, and provides FAKE , temporary value, and can cause manipulation. You can repay any debt you feel you owe, after the dust has settled, on your own rational terms, if you choose to do so.


Example 1 : Someone walks in very late to a meeting. It is assumed they they should shut up and accept everything everyone else wants them to do, until a lot of time has passed or they've turned it around with compensatory good behavior. If that person rude to you while giving instructions, you should just take it because you were late. "You're their bitch for the next hour because you fucked up."


Example 2: You suck at doing a particular task. It's assumed that you should let more competent people lead and direct you without much fuss, possibly even being their gopher.


Example 3: Someone is in a vulnerable state e.g. they've just been injured, verbally abused by someone or, just started crying. It's assumed anyone who bothers them or interferes with them getting care, is immediately a dick. Society expects you to bend over , at least temporarily, and not add any additional discomfort to this person. This can happen by proxy: someone decides they will assign a bunch of work to you under the rationalization that they represent someone who is ill.


Example 4: Dealing with a mentally challenged person (either through health or acquired stupidity) who doesn't understand how conversations work and use up a lot of your time. Convention dictates that you're supposed to be extra nice to them.


These examples are all an incorrect response in frame management. Folding to pressure under the guise of compassion or mistake-compensation is a terrible idea. You will not score points for your meekness or compensatory adherence. It can be appropriate to let others take some control when you've made a mistake, especially briefly for the dust to settle, but often this becomes disproportionate manipulation. It's never okay to let others disrespect you when you're "wrong", especially in unrelated, tangential matters. "You were late so your opinion on how to chop wood efficiently isn't important today" is a ridiculous, rationalization - yet this is how people think.


This mindset of keeping track of who made mistakes today, and who's a dick, and who's been working hard recently is tedious, toxic and utterly useless. It rewards behaviors that may have no merit of their own. If you decide to go out drinking and wake up at 3pm, you don't have to "make up" for it by doing all the house work for that day. You "make up" for it by your intrinsic value as a person: you're a competent, useful, compassionate, powerful human being who's value stands by itself with how you live your life, not with what you've done in the last 12 hours or 12 minutes. If you feel you "owe someone", repay the debt on your terms. Being trampled by others on after you fucked up does NOT constitute a social debt repayment.


Similarly, a incompetent person who shows up early or does something nice, is still an incompetent person. They should not be handed control of a meeting or interaction.


A competent, powerful person continues his frame of work or living as normal after a very brief , and often optional "compassion time". If doctor walks in 5 minutes late, do you think that entitles you to manipulate him and tell him how to do his job? No. Powerful people continue to set the frame of interactions, even after they've fucked up. They can apologize and even compensate you in some form but they never give the other person control.


Another example of people who don't let "who's the bigger dick" mental accounting run their life: "free spirits" that don't have anxiety. They talk or fart loudly in public and then forget it happened after 6 seconds. They don't mind asking strangers for stuff. In their mind, they don't owe anyone anything after committing a social faux-pas . They aren't necessarily powerful people; but they've learned that it's much better to live life without keeping track of who's a dick and who's not for every micro-interaction throughout their day. As long as they don't go overboard (e.g. becoming chronically loud, exhausting extroverts with no consideration for other people), they get what they need, and they have no anxiety problems, and they take action in their life.


A mindset of keeping focus on what's important, instead focusing on who is being rude, helps powerful people and free-spirits stay away from "white-glove" , politically correct, red-tape jobs and environments. They hate these things automatically, and don't work there which is better for their health. Whereas, neurotic people find comfort in "safe space" jobs , tightly regulated meetings, and upscale restaurants, where all the interactions are controlled and uptight, which makes their overall life unhealthy, monochrome, micromanaged, and full of resentment for everyone. That's right: if spend a lot of time keeping track, even subconsciously, of who is wrong and who needs to be comforted, you're going to hate everyone and have a distaste for even being alive.


Your temporary compassion helps no one. Mistakes are hard to evaluate in the moment, so don't change your frame because you think someone deserves it or because someone fucked up. Wondering what people think of you and bending to their will , will leave you with resentment and negative emotion.


If you hold frame even when you're the one who fucked up, you allow your previously stored value as a person a chance to win. No one is allowed to become the king , all of the sudden, because of circumstance or error.


As always, use your judgement. Don't lock horns with someone when you fuck up and they feel entitled to undermine you briefly. Allow a (very tiny) amount of time to pass where you follow their instructions so they can feel like they are regaining the upper hand. Then stand your ground and don't let them disrespect you disproportionately.


Also, listen other people's ideas on their merit and not some irrelevant feelings you might have of them in that moment. Allow powerful ideas to steer the ship of all your endeavors, not short-term emotion and compassion.

Post Information
Title Don't allow people to disrespect you when you've made a mistake.
Author clon3man
Upvotes 876
Comments 78
Date 14 September 2017 08:37 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Original Link
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Red Pill terms found in post:
framethe red pill

[–]AuWaP88 points89 points  (17 children) | Copy

These fuckups you speak of are simply the inevitable social friction that occurs in daily human interaction. All functional systems have a means of dissipating the heat that arises from friction. The means of achieving this dissipation are through reasoned treatment of friction.

In social terms this means that both the transmitter and receiver of the fuckup must be reasonable enough to dissipate the heat that arises from that social friction. You propose a reasoned method for conducting oneself after transmitting a fuckup. But we must also learn how to conduct ourselves when receiving a fuckup. For the heat can only dissipate when all members are reasonable enough to see that friction is inevitable in a social system ( any system for that matter).

If you're dealing with someone who tries to hold the heat within the social system, then you know they are either unreasonable, or are trying to literally keep the heat on you to manipulate your behaviour in some way. If they are the former, then just avoid them as much as possible because unreasonable people are dangerous. If they are the latter, then you need to outwit them and get into a position where they determine that it's not worth the effort trying to keep the heat on you.

The key is to always act in a way that dissipates the heat from social friction. Too much heat destroys a system.

[–]Interceox3 points4 points  (11 children) | Copy

I'm a little confused. What is social friction? Do we have control over it? What causes social friction? Can we change that?

[–]shaolin_octopus14 points15 points  (7 children) | Copy

It's kind of an abstract concept, but the easiest way I can explain it is when someone makes a social error or otherwise breaks rapport during conversation. During every conversation you are making a connection with the other person or people, and depending on what you say you can strengthen the connection or weaken it. Strengthening includes things like building rapport, following social conventions, and other positive mechanisms. Weakening includes making social errors, breaking rapport, or otherwise offending the person you are talking to.

You do have control of it, this is why charismatic people can walk into a room and glide through every conversation they have. "How to Win Friends and Influence People" is a good primer on this type of subject.

To add one final thought, not all social friction is bad. Sometimes, when someone else offends you or does something you don't like, you can pump the breaks on the rapport until they correct their mistake. Negging is another more practical example of it, where you are purposely using small amounts of social friction to make the girl chase the feeling of the rapport you were building prior.

[–]electricspresident1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Just another side point on this guy's good explanation : your SMV matters quite a bit when attempting to strengthen a connection.

[–]p3n1x-1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy

when someone else offends you

This should never happen to a RP man. Being "offended" is a choice.

[–]shaolin_octopus4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

You're trying to present TRP as binary, while its more of a spectrum. Every man has to set boundaries and if someone tries to cross them, they need to be defended. If you set no boundaries, people will walk all over you and you will be the opposite of RP.

There is a difference between being offended, and how you react to it.

[–]p3n1x-2 points-1 points  (2 children) | Copy

Being Offended Is A Choice. People will challenge you and cross your lines always, no matter how RP you are. Taking "offense" to it is childish, period. Deal with it with action, you can't "offend" action.

[–]Mastropasto1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

No the other guy is right. I was a person that didnt get offended almost never. Even when people called me midget or dwarf because im a bit short, i always luaghed or didnt give a shit. Result? Many people thought i was weak, that i could not stand up for my self. Yes in some case you need to call out the person. If someone than say you are childish, call them out too because there is something that cant be tollerated, like straight insults. I learnt that the hard way, 1 year of depression boy.

[–]p3n1x-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Passing a shit test isn't childish, it is action. You don't have to be "offended" to take action.

[–]AuWaP4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Friction is a part of any system. Most good things that you enjoy are produced by systems.

Any social system (work, sport, school, family, etc.) is also a a system that experiences friction. The human components can be thought of as 'rubbing' against each other. Hence the phrase 'he rubs me the wrong way'. An engineer or physicist will completely accept friction as a part of whatever system they are dealing with. So, we have to accept that our social systems will include social friction.

Because humans never know what is going on in other people's minds, we can never act in a fully harmonious manner. We are bound to do things that annoy or frustrate other members of the social system. This is inevitable and totally congruous with the laws of physics.

You can obviously minimise social friction by trial and error. See how people react to your behaviour and curtail certain behaviour if it annoys people too much. Think of your car or bike tyres. The higher the PSI the less friction you have, lower PSI gives you more friction. Which is why your tyres wear out quicker if you don't keep them pumped up. Increasing PSI of the tyres reduces the surface area in contact with the road.

Reducing your social size reduces contact with the social system. Thus, you will create less social friction.

But it would seem that the aim of TRP is to increase your social size. Which is why the OP has advised that we don't let social friction affect our frame. As we take on more of an active role in our social systems, we will create more friction. You need to be able to handle this and have a means of dissipating it in a way that doesn't make you look like a supplicating beta boy.

[–]Mithra90093 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is interesting. I'd like to see how this analogy applies to the Japanese "Burakumin". This is a group of people who exist at the very bottom of Japan's society. Their ancestors typically had "dirty" jobs ("dirty" being determined by Shinto. Hide tanning and embalming would be examples of this) so they were deemed too "filthy" spiritually to be interacted with. Since you have a class of people that is oppressed both spiritually, socially and legally, don't they basically function as a reservoir? You can dump infinite amounts of "social heat" upon them and they never "change temperature" (become volatile). Is it good for a society to have an underclass?

[–]Gaddness4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Social friction is simply an event where something transpires against the way everyone perceives a situation should have happened. It’s possible to reframe it for people, but i can’t think of any specific examples at the moment. Give me an example of something you’ve experienced and I’m sure either I or someone else could give an example of how to reframe it

[–]RedPill_Swinger1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Why are there people like me who never heat the fuck up then? No mercy for dumbass emotional people, always outframe them with no remorse who cares about "dissipating" lol

[–]AuWaP1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

well another method of reducing friction is lubrication; lots of lubrication! Is that more your style?

As long as you operate below a certain threshold, you may be lubed up enough not to get hot. A post on social lubricants might be handy.

[–]livinlavidal0ca1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm well versed in reducing friction through lubrication. But even when I'm nice and oily, sometimes I still gradually build up resentment and anger and then erupt in a white hot rage

[–]MrTrizzles0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Or, "Don't sweat the small stuff."

[–]1clon3man[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for the concrete scientific input, very insightful.

[–]samuelstone2355 points56 points  (0 children) | Copy

Great post, this strikes me personally as I have been coming from the anxious life to the "care free" life...or "worry-free" life.

I dont need "my wondering of what people really think about me" to complete me. I'm a fully complete person who's growing to love themselves, both with strengths and weaknesses.

Not letting people walk all over you after a mistake is so important! Thanks for the encouragement. :)

[–]magpiefanatic11 points12 points  (2 children) | Copy

Example 1: If you're really late, no. You make a statement of what you think people are worth by how punctual you are. Obviously car accidents, child birth, and other monumental catastrophe are exempt from this. By being late, you're saying to me you don't think my time has value, so fuck what you think.

Ex. 2: if you don't know how to do something or are new to a job, ask to be shown. Take command. "Show me how you do it". You are dead correct on this one, don't be someone's slave just cause theyve worked there longer than you.

Example 3: if someone is vulnerable/injured. Use your humanity. Save your criticism for when they are able to square up to you and respond. Chucking in little throwaway comments when someone is physically hurt and can't fully respond is cowardly. You can still tell a person it was their fault they ran through the corridors and tripped down the stairs but not when they're nursing a broken femur. Having respect for people is not breaking frame, however, opportunistically telling people they fucked up when they're too fucked to respond is breaking frame, because you probably can't handle telling them when they're upright.

Ex. 4: dealing with the mentally challenged. Have some respect. They don't even factor into being manly/having frame discussion, they're probably not able to comprehend any of that. Acting like a big dick deal maker to someone has obvious handicap is shitty.

This is the red pill, not the be-a-cunt pill.

[–]Bambam602 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Complete agreement with you especially on Ex. 4.

I loved this whole post except for that part. There is zero power struggle in temporarily aiding someone who is mentally handicapped. They have no power over their condition. I would never consider a man BP for helping a mentally challenged person. Choosing to power-play on a mentally challenged person seems pretty fucked, no?

[–]1clon3man[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Helping people on the fly who are disadvantaged is an automatic human reaction for most people. However, you should be charitable by doing the best you can for someone, intentionally, not just because you feel guilt in the moment. You don't want to be a enabler. What is the best way to help this person move forward? Are they a repeat offender, being stubborn beyond their disability? Will they have their hand out for you forever despite their potential? Does the handicapped person really care that you're "helping" them, or do they need something more deep?

Strong men give people what they need, not what they want.

Some people help a difficult person when they see them and then they start running away, hoping to not bump into them accidentally, that's weak shit.

[–]greatslyfer11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

I was walking away from work one day when an elderly woman was in the building that I was working in. She stood in the middle of the space between me and the gate, so it seemed kinda awkward if I went around so I decided to try to help her (cause you know, apparently you're an asshole if you don't, apparently).

She starts speaking in French, to which I don't understand, so I immediately try to communicate to her, through verbal and body language that I didn't understand her.

And for some reason, her dumbass still stood there, being pissed that I couldn't help her, even though she was in a non-French speaking country and looking like she was about to snap/freak out.

I left while trying to have a "I'm sorry, can't help you" look on my face/expression, but the bitch was still having a little hissy fit that a stranger didn't solve all her problems.

Some FUCKING people man. I swear, I know this is hyperbole from my part, but sometimes I wish there would be a purge, a moment in which the law stops to exist so I can beat the shit out of these idiots.

[–]CarnivOre9325 points26 points  (3 children) | Copy

I disagree with 2. How can you lead at something if you're technically incompetent? It is logical to me to let the expert lead and learn from him and is foolish to alter this plan.

[–]1clon3man[S] 34 points35 points  (0 children) | Copy

You should allow people to lead respectfully within their domain of competence. A problem occurs when that person then comes to believe they are more competent than you at everything, which is an easy mistake to make once the relationship starts on that foot. They point to how little you know in one area and try to extend that to control everything.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

Leaders are rarely the most competent people. They've assumed their leadership through asserting themselves. Dominating others has everything to do with being absolutely self assured; that's all it takes. You could back down a grizzly bear If you completely believed in your ability to over power it. The bear would sense your unwavering frame through you body language, locked pupils and unrelenting aura and seriously question its own ability.

[–]Banter7790 points91 points  (14 children) | Copy

I disagree with a lot of what I see on TRP.

This one? Impressive, insightful, accurate, and valuable. Grand slam, sir.

[–] points points | Copy

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[–]MarvelousWhale4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

You've been paying attention to too many field reports and rants, try filtering to focus on theories and other posts more.

That said, just because there are more often lower quality posts from those who are still in the process of growing doesn't necessarily mean the subreddit is any lesser. Gems are called gems for a reason.

[–] points points | Copy

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[–]MarvelousWhale2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

What I find myself doing more often in the past year is hittin top posts for the month and just catching up on that once or twice a month.

I no longer browse daily since I've internalized most of the concepts, it gets redundant.

[–]Collegia_Titanica1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Alright, i have to ask, what do you disagree with here ?

[–]RedPillFusion7 points8 points  (7 children) | Copy

Sycophantic behavior. Your opinion now means less.

Edit: guys read the post before determining I'm being serious. I agree with his comment. Makes me wonder how many of y'all bypass the OP and come straight to the comments section.

[–]judethedude8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

Obvious hilarious sarcasm apparently isn't obvious

[–]Banter7719 points20 points  (4 children) | Copy

False. I gave credit where it's due. Your declaration of my value means less than shit.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

It meant enough for you to reply. Didn't you read the post?

[–]GOATmar6 points7 points  (7 children) | Copy

Don't allow someone to disrespect you ever. Period.

[–] points points | Copy

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[–]GOATmar3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy

ms-13? please; pussies

fuck it, i'll free fall out of a damn tree to stampede their chest till they cant breathe


i'd dropkick em down a cement flight of steps. and then throw em back up them

those ms-13 fags, fuck em

these hands wouldve struck em harder than gettin hit with a mack truck and then backed up on

cuz any gang plannin to throw hands will get snatched out of their damn clothes so fast, it'll look like an invisible man standin

[–] points points | Copy

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[–]GOATmar4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

LMAO those are all eminem lyrics bro

i thought the rhyming scheme was a dead giveaway

[–]WolfenSatyr0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy


Did you find that in a book about how to make friends out of your enemies?

[–]Gipsonsg8720 points21 points  (0 children) | Copy

gauranteed way to fail in life - catering to someone else's emotions. Seeking validation from external sources.

Excellent post bro.

[–]CallMeHaseo7 points8 points  (12 children) | Copy

I still don't understand how to reflect the fire when they try to flame you...

[–]1clon3man[S] 18 points19 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes, people will shit-test you when they catch you in mistake. My post is the best approximation of a long-term reaction I can come up with. What you do in the first 5 minutes when someone is shitting on you is somewhat less important, feeling bad about it and letting the other person unload (without admitting major fault) might be just fine, but those 5 minutes aren't the most important. Sitting there and taking it without apologizing profusely or proposing reparations in a panic might actually be a good idea, counter-intuitively.

In the heat of the moment, we have limited insight as to degree of the mistake, it needs to be processed, re-articulated in your head. Sometimes your mistake is very minor and someone will try to use it to manipulate you in a major way, but you can't tell in the moment.

Sometimes the mistake is serious. You have to keep cool and not "bend over for forgiveness". De-escalate without making promises of changed behavior - we haven't even established the degree of fault yet. The other party might forget the whole thing or they might be the ones who caused your mistake to begin with. No one knows until a little time has passed, you only have a hunch. Don't change your life for a hunch - people will remember that you were quick to accept blame in a panic state.

[–]WarBoruma10 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy

I was thinking the same thing as i read the post. The only thing i can think of is to address it directly by saying: "I realise i was late, but this does not allow you or anyone else to disrespect me". Of course you gotta have a position of power, or a powerful no-shit personality otherwise it might just get blown off too.

[–]CallMeHaseo7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm trying to find a balance, if you're too soft about it people won't take you serious. If you get too into it, they'll play victim and reverse it on you since you originally are the one who fucked up. 🤔

[–]1PantsonFire12348 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Sometimes you can't. Remember that in a group the consensus doesn't hinge on one person but on the majority. If you are being flamed, attacked or diminished this is done because the majority of the group decided it's beneficial to them for you to be targeted.

This sometimes happens because you are out of line, or you're attitude isn't congruent with your value, when you yourself disrespect others or because you pose a threat to the leader/opinion makers of the group and the only way to deal with you is through covert means by the group as a whole.

Things aren't as easy as "ignore the bully and he stops!". You need to make constant evaluations. Are you in the wrong? Is it worth staying in this group? What should be your realistic position? Are you treated fairly in that way? Etc.

Always make sure the problem ain't with you, the worst thing one can do is be such an autist that he doesn't realize his own short comings. You can bounce from group to group and the problem will remain because it's you.

The moment you ruled that out you can generally analyze everyone in the group and figure out who's triggering the attacks made on you, for what reason, how, when yadda. The main purpose of such an attack is though, to get a reaction out of you and discourage you while validating the perpetrators. Take that away.

Again it's a tricky thing because a reaction can be expressed in multiple ways. Getting angry, attacking back, self doubting, ignoring. All are reactions. The best thing is to casually go along with it sometimes, treat it like a shit test and AA. And sometimes you ignore it. For example when one person tries to start an attack on you while another person simultaneously brings on another subject. Ignore the attack like it went through your ear and out and reply to the person who brought something up.

The last thing that should be said is that trying to AMOG or to be 'the life of the party' that ain't your party can put a target on your head. Like trying to speak allot during a meeting while being new to the workforce. At this point you should always adopt a more relaxed, low key and separate wolf mentality. Let the group notice you are not wholly part of the group cohesion. You are still your separate country if you will, merely allies. And let them qualify to you to covertly invite you to merge with them. And they will if you prove you have value. It's kind of like trying to game a girl. They can't flame you when they are trying to qualify to you.

[–]KenMastersMD2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Own it, and don't let it happen again

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

You control yourself, if only you find the courage to take control. Only once you've mastered self control, can you begin to control your surroundings.

[–]trpthrowaway20035 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

Take responsibility for your fuck ups, and don't make the same mistake again.

If you are someone who is constantly fucking up, get your shit together.

[–]AuWaP7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

There's obviously a limit to how much fucking up you can do.

But I think OP is advising us not to let people guilt us into pussified behaviour as a means of paying off percieved debts owed on the occasional minor fuckup.

This advice is probably aimed at highly socially anxious people who amplify minor fuckups into social death scenarios, and then lose all frame in order to pussify themselves because they think that may avoid the social death.

[–]rrealnigga2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is mentioned in Thinking Fast and Slow. Basically, people give more importance to more recent events. For example seeing a car crash on the road will make you temporarily think that driving is more dangerous, even tho the overall stats haven't changed.

[–]GetRichOrDieTRPin9 points10 points  (3 children) | Copy

I agree with a lot of it. Especially not beating yourself up for making mistakes and knowing your worth as a person isn't just tied to what you've done recently. That's good shit and thanks for sharing.

However some of your shit seems like you refuse to acknowledge your mistakes. If you're late, fucking apologize for wasting people's time. And don't do it again. Your intrinsic value is pointless if you're wasting my time. If you don't know what the hell youre doing listen and defer to your training until you know your shit. My attitude about my employees is "what have you done for me lately and what can you do for me next." But what do I know? I just manage a multi million dollar O&G Facility.

[–]1clon3man[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Being late in the workplace was probably a so-so example. Punctuality is hugely valued in the workplace and it's very difficult to maintain frame when you're on the verge of being fired.

The idea I was going for with regards to being late, is in a another situation where it's not a huge deal, for whatever reason, e.g. punctuality is not expected, major unforeseen circumstances. Someone who has it in for you can still try to gain the upper hand by making you feel bad for a fake transgression. And you might take the bait because, after all, being on time is usually important.

[–]GetRichOrDieTRPin1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It think you can distill things down to "Know Your Worth". If you're a competent key team member, don't ever sweat the complaints and bullshit of the losers. In most organizations 20% of people do 80% of the important work. If you're in the 20%, I wouldn't even once consider the opinions of the rest unless a specific person has power over you. I go as far as treating the losers in my company with contempt. I've said in meeting with upper management that if certain useless people aren't eliminated soon then I'm gone. The contempt is helpful because other people pick up on it and eventually it erodes their personal capital and eventually they will be removed. The key is you better truly understand your worth, because if you pull that shit and you aren't shit, then you'll be taken care of.

[–]p3n1x3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

My attitude about my employees is "what have you done for me lately and what can you do for me next."

You manage a specific system and probably a very similar type of employee. Your quoted attitude does not work in all arena's.

I think OPs point was, don't let someone use your "acknowledgement of a mistake" as a point for the receiver to abuse and assume a position of superiority or weakness. (destroy their shit test)

[–]Pooddit2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is great. I wish there was more posts on respect, power, and value. I've delved into it myself and have come to a lot of realizations that have changed the way I interact with people and take care of myself. Respect of self and others, and providing value, to get value from others, is the foundation of society and being an adult, in my opinion. Self respect in the form of compassion does not mean eating that second twix. The easiest way, I've realized, to see if a person knows what respect is, is to see how they take care of their health. If they are obese, but even rich, or whatever, they lack self respect and thus do not know what it is at all. It also occurred to me that a narcissist is a person who didn't develop past childhood. They never learned how to get the attention and validation we all need through respecting others and providing actual value. They manipulate and overstep boundaries and rights (disrespect) and are trapped in the scarcity mentality because they still think that they are the center of the universe and all attention must be on them because their child brain still sees validation as through the one source, the mother.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is pure gold. I've been falling long time into this kind of trap

[–]e_z_p_z_1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

don't beat yourself up over a mistake here or there but definitely son't take a "care-free" approach to making mistakes on a regular basis.

if you walk into class or a meeting late and start interjecting points that were already covered then you really shouldve stfu. for the time being everyone in that room does know more than you because they were able to complete the simple task of being where they were supposed to be when they were supposed to be there.

if there is a task that is part of your job that you arent good at, don't tolerate that. ask and learn from the person who is good. being the weak link in the chain who can't be relied on to get the job done right and on time is not good, and tolerating it does rightfully take away credibility from everything you do and say

[–]WolfenSatyr0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'd like to chime in and add that a short term burst of effort to get up to speed such as quietly asking if anyone who took notes would be willing to share them and promising to fill gaps if you have critical information that no one else has access to goes a long way.

Taking advantage of the informal Q&A after the meeting also helps to clarify the points you may have missed earlier. Even offering to give additional information upon request after the meeting will help.

No one cares how deep you grovel. They only care if you have anything that make change their postion on what was discussed during the meeting.

[–]SgtBrutalisk1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thread title is great advice.

I'd add that you should never stay quiet when reprimanded. Always speak up when criticized.

[–]Velebit1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

well you have examples but no solutions to how you would resolve the issues

[–]sparks_mandrill1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

A good book on this stuff is Phil Dyers, Your Erroneous Zones.

[–]CustomSawdust1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Practicing a more cooperative rather than dominational heirarchy would eliminate social friction.

This would never happen because people will always be possessed of their own emotional/ logical/ psychological continuum.

We need to bump into each other to understand how we work/ play together.

[–]Rian_Stone0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It only works when you buy into their frame

[–]spoggos0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Great post, enjoyed reading it, definitely applicable in a good manner in real-life situations. Upvote earned, value earned, too. Thanks lad.

[–]1a_passager0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Black Mirror has an episode that satirizes this subliminal score keeping, btw

[–]SoulRedemption0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I thoroughly enjoyed this topic. One of the only posts that I've seen address this "system". We all know it happens, its just not written down.

What you described, is a social system, which takes place and you have to play the game to at least a certain degree. Any thoughts on disarming the situation when the dust has settled if the people involved still have the mentality?

[–]1clon3man[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

In the case of inappropriate grudges and scorekeeping, I would just keep written record of these incidents when they occur (inception... keeping score of others who keep score too much...) . You may need to drop people or jobs out of your life if they are constantly refusing to let things go.

Your question is basically "how do I fix something when others think I've fucked up and won't bend at all" . That strategy will vary, I would say the best tool for solving that varies a lot. In the case of workplace politics, I would say don't pretend the tension doesn't exist, discuss with friends, build up a plan in case the other person gets worse and worse. You might even choose to try and reach your opponent emotionally & express your deep desire to let the tension go and make big reparations, which will actually mean something compared to reparations made in haste. Sometimes you only have bad options to choose from. Choosing to do nothing might be the worst option. Extreme action and planning may be required to solve chronic problems that are "always annoying, never an emergency".

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Excellent post I fucking love you man.

[–]Mastropasto0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Wish i read this some years ago..i got told "half man, dwarf, midget of shit" for years by a group of "friends" that had no respect to im scared of people, male in psrticularly, but this post helps me ty OP

[–]gELSK0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

// , This seems like it just re-hashes basic skills that wouldn't be out of place on most of the social-skills subreddits.

[–]xofnave0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This post came at the perfect time in my life, thank you.

[–]SPREAD_THE_LOVE_77910 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This post is very useful. The hardest part for me will not be holding frame when I make mistakes, but looking at others the right way when they make mistakes:

This mindset of keeping track of who made mistakes today, and who's a dick, and who's been working hard recently is tedious, toxic and utterly useless.

I do this intensely and it's going to be hard changing my mindset from situational to an overall view. Thanks for the perspective!

[–]1PantsonFire12340 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Good idea for a post. Having said that however it's much more crucial to understand group dynamics and build up people skills. You will know when you are out of line or when you are in your right. And this is important to make confident decisions in a group.

First, if you are late you should have been on time. There are exceptions like you having a loaded schedule and others don't. I have friends who are basically on the minute accurate on time. But all they do is attend some college classes and spend time with the girlfriend. While i'm spinning multiple tasks at once. At that point my later arrival should be expected and mitigated. Don't expect the other person who's doing little else in life to make this choice for you. He like most other people will project his life experience on to you and figure you are doing just as little as he is. But you don't have a girlfriend since you're not stupid and decided to spin plates. So in fact you are doing less than him in his mind. Assert yourself and make it clear you got more shit on your mind and this is the fastest you could arrive at the meeting. Whatever that meeting is about.

The same can be said for when you are lacking in a certain area of expertise. You shut your mouth and don't tell people what to think or do. However to be part of the conversation and show the group you are a participant you instead ask questions, double check the info that is given to you and make it clear through these actions that you might not know much about this subject. But you have other skills where you do. Eventually you show progress in this area and people will take notice. Your personal goal in a group should be to be a main contributor.

The thing is that in most of these cases like OP sates, it's only about two things. You understanding group dynamics and not acting like a sperg. And people using small mishaps as manipulation ammo to diminish your standing in the group for whatever reason. The latter happens the more toxic and bitchy your group is. We aren't women so there's no reason why instead of getting shit done the group is engaging in pittyfull acts.

[–]throwitdownman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You list 4 examples of what not to do, and then you hamster an 'optional compassion time'. Then you end with not allowing people to 'disproportionally' disrespect you without defining what it is, and on what scale to measure it.

You really could have shortened this by saying 'exercise your best judgment every opportunity'. A bit ranty.

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