This is something I believe needs to be addressed.
Whenever I see a post refering to:
I just cringe at the idea. Stop giving normal people power.
There is no natural rp man. It is just a human who is not socially awkward.
There is no chad. Chad is relevant to his surroundings.
Your ex was not BPD diagnosed, you are giving her a title when she was just an emotional woman that played you.
You did not go from being a 'beta cuck' to an enhanced man. You go to gym, dressed better and now can hold a conversation but still need to regularly check in on trp to keep your skills sharp. You have swallowed nothing. You are simply an observer here.
Your boss was not a machiavellian psychopath with schemes and plots to turn you into his bitch. He was a normal man who saw an opportunity to play you to his advantage.
Now....
Maybe the above things are true; (except the natural rp/chad thing its all relative), but you musnt frame things or word things in this manner. The people out in the real world are still just people. They can still die from a eating a single peanut duen to an undianosed allergy. They can still get emotional. They can still bleed. They can all be beaten.
Being a true Red pilled man should not mean that you can go toe to toe with a cunning 5/10 bdp ex. It does not mean you can be the best bitch im your employers harem. It most certainly does not put you in the same playing field as chad due to how many girls you can smash.
You are here to win in what you put your mind to. But you cant win if in your mind you have viewed your self as a loser or second rate.
As you were.
Jordan Peterson says it best:
“Stop saying things that make you weak”
My favorite JP quote, said completely off the cuff in a lecture but it sums up so much: "When you drift too far into the nihilistic substructure, there's a huge call for tyrannical order that manifests itself subconsciously."
Can you break it down a bit? I think jordan peterson is articulate but sometimes he can be a bit too verbose
Think yin and yang. A nihilist lacks order and favours chaos, a tyrannical government lacks chaos and favours order. A nihilists psyche is attracted to the order in which it is lacking aka the rigidity of tyranny.
completely agree. i went too nihilistic. craved structure. still do and hated that i didnt have it in my life. maybe this could be applied to women as well. maybe this is the opposites attract thingy
The structure that you crave, and that everyone else craves, is masculine frame. Self control which women feel safe and comfortable in.
Did you read Nietzsche? I suggest reading The Will to Power. It will give you your structure back.
Hm yeah. Got it. Oh yes got that shit now. You're like the Amazing Kreskin of breaking it down a bit.
Same reason the amoral, areligious left craves the totalitarianism of communism. With no control over yourself, you desire to be controlled by an external power.
but there's good chaos and bad chaos, as there is good order and bad order
May the goddess bless you!
To the downvoter: Good chaos - challenging yourself outside your comfort Bad chaos - divorce rape
Good order - safe family Bad order - overbearing mother
Of course, I was just pertaining to this specific scenario
Can you ELI5 for me please?
No I can’t, that’s a straightforward as it gets mate
Oh man. It is so hard to climb out of a nihilistic or relativist worldview. You're so easily exploited and bossed around by people who see things in black and white, who are unwilling to consider alternatives etc. Good luck to everyone who sees this in themselves.
I think he means, when ineffective people realize that the world doesn't reward them for their ineffectiveness, they seek out tyrannical order (authoritarian government) to change the world to reward their ineffectiveness.
Instead of changing themselves to be what the world rewards, they seek to change the world.
Damn. That really resonates with some of the stuff I've seen in my community politics. Thanks.
For the purposes of this sub, it applies to personal relationships a lot more clearly. Chaotic, ineffective people latch on to disciplined, rigid, effective people. Of course male strength and rigidity is the draw for women. It's the same for weak men; they crave leadership, either by overbearing women or strict male bosses/friends. Men here ought to meditate on this.
This is the truth you stumble upon when you embrace the alpha inside of you. When you live consciously. When each interaction happens because you made it happen.
When I was younger and trying to understand what an 'alpha' was at its core, I had not even the slightest clue how leading your life with absokute concious authority would impact not only my happiness, but the happiness and direction of those around me.
At the core, it is basically taking responsibility for yourself and your life in the most basic sense. When you live by that value, other people who are unable or unwilling to do the same willing cling to you for emotional and social guidance. Even other alpha men will respect you and want to learn and grow with you. Imo, there is no question whether a man should or should not aspire to be a leader. There is living your life then there is unconscious, drone, beta slavery.
Makes sense, but what’s it got to do with the OP?
To complex; didn't understand: "If you get lost and become a bitch, you want a dom to slap you silly and wake you the fuck up, even if that dom is a tyrant"
I liked his lecture about Hitler. About how Hitler is even worse than most people think. Because he wasn't actually after power, control, or whatever. He wanted chaos and murder. Those were his end goals. Murder wasn't a means to an end, it was the fucking end.
Even when the Russians were invading, the dedicated a lot of resources to gassing people. Which isn't what you would do if you genuinely wanted to win.
I understand JP's lectures are going from a psychological analysis point of view but he gets way too caught up in the holocaust. Nazi Germany started evacuating supplies, cash, gold and senior officials out of the country following the collapse in Stalingrad. People like Martin Bormann and Hitler himself (yes, read The Grey Wolf, deal with it) lived out the rest of their days in Argentina. Upwards of 100k Nazis made it to South America with the help of the Red Cross and the Vatican. Hell, most of the SS ended up going right back to work for Reinhart Gehlen and the Bundesnachrichtendienst which TO THIS VERY DAY hires direct relatives from those who served in the German military first.
So while JP has his psycho Hitler scorched earth 'kill em all' monster image, the Nazi party was more of an independent corporate conglomerate that moved itself out of Germany. They knew what they were doing and a lot of them got away with it. Mostly because they were financed by major Western industrial powers. Remember the extent of the Holocaust is something that only became more readily known years after the war.
If you don't like that Ford provided 1/3 of Germany with their military trucks and IBM staff worked at the camps...then I don't know what tell you. These companies sued America post war because their bombing raids of Germany damaged THEIR materials and they WON.
Sure, Hitler was crazy. In that 'we are great, you are scum' condescending manner that pretty much any super wealthy industrialist feels about the working classes.
This is a very good analysis, and kind of a contrast to normal redpill thinking. Jordan Peterson is certainly smart, but he tries to encapsulate everything in a symbolic, fantastical framework. The truth is that the "good" and "evil" are distractions that the public focuses on while the truly wealthy and powerful make pragmatic decisions based on what will yield the most favorable outcome for them. At the highest levels of power and wealth, there is no good or evil taken into consideration, and everything exists in a moralistic grey area. There is always collusion between seemingly oppositional forces, for the mutual benefit of both parties. Any time you find yourself standing strongly on one side of two-sided ideology, you are just a sheep begging to be led. Powerful people just step in and take the reigns. This is why I think a lot of redpill is bullshit. It ignores how actual power works and turns everything into a battle between men and women. Oldest power trick in the book, divide and conquer. If you can get enough people fighting each other over nothing [alt-right vs sjw], they have no energy to fight for something that actually matters. World wars are a good example.
That's why so much is hushed up because telling this to some 90yr old WW2 veteran who completely swallowed the baseball & apple pie in the 50s seems really mean. Doug Stanhope has a good bit about Vietnam vets proudly wearing those hats. "They fucked you in that war and then sold you merch."
But yes to your point - truly clever (or powerful) people benefit from both sides.
And tons were integrated into NASA and various medical colleges across the country.
Yep! I wasn't even counting the Paperclip guys. Good ol' SS Colonel Werner Von Braun hosting Disney's World of Tomorrow.
I have a slightly different angle. I think had America and friends been holding all the cards at the end of WWII, the Nazi remnants would have been very meticulously rounded up. I think they let some of them stick around for the same reason they didn't turn around and deal with Franco: The Red Dawn was rising over the next hill and these former enemies, in small doses, could be effective in neutralizing it.
A lot of what the Allies did post 1942 was done with the knowledge that the Soviets were our secret enemies, that victory over Hitler was probably just a matter of cleanup, and that they should be getting the pieces on the board ready to counter Soviet expansion.
And yes, the Holocaust was not common knowledge until after the war. Early and mid war, intelligence officials had strong suspicions. Near the end, they were absolutely certain, but that information was not disseminated yet.
I do not grudge Ford's selling Germany tanks before the war. And I don't think he can be blamed for what the people in his European operations had to do to survive Nazi rule. I think a careful analysis of Ford shows that he admired how the Nazis seemed to clean up Communism, that he quietly applauded their anti-semitic leanings, but that once it became clear all out war with them was inevitable he was all aboard the America train.
I view the Communist vs. Nazis (and everybody else) from the simplest of perspectives: The wealthy and powerful don't like the idea of the working class violently rising up and disturbing their status quo and cash flow. Call is Nazism or anything else, money will back the protection of itself. That alone trumps any anti-semitic agenda. All races are equal when they can be exploited for cheap (or free) labor. Why kill off everyone when you need them to reproduce so you still have a steady source of ditch diggers?
Is this quote in one of his new video? It isn't indexed in my JP search engine. I haven't had time to updated it since Aug.
You have a “JP search engine?” Please elaborate.
Ya, I built it using the autocaptions in youtube. I took all the words JP has said and built an index out of them (like in the back of a book) linking the words/phrases to the time and video in which he said what he said.
Wow that’s no joke. You find it useful?
Dude. Can you upload the search or a link to the code?
My favorite JP quote:
"Clean your room"
I searched it for you here
Can you break down what "stop saying things that make you weak" means?
I think he usually says that in the context of telling the truth vs. telling lies. Most people walk around saying things they believe people around them want to hear. When we do that, our subconscious / psyche doesn’t like it. There is a certain feeling you get when you are not acting true to yourself. When your psyche is disjointed. When you are dis-integrated. I think normally when he says “stop saying things that make you weak,” he means stop acting contrary to what you really believe. Say what you mean. If people don’t like it, then you can discuss it with them. Be open and willing to listen. Pay attention. Maybe they’ll change your mind about what you believe. But if you just go around saying what you don’t believe, nobody will ever challenge it. And your weak beliefs that you’ve hidden (e.g., I’m just a beta cuck) will never see the light of day and you have no opportunity to change them. That makes you weak. And you are weak and ineffectual when your psyche is dis-integrated / disjointed. You walk around with anxiety and awkwardness because you don’t know what to say because you’re afraid to say what you actually think / believe.
That is paraphrasing. Here is a search of the paraphrase to find the actual quote.
I should have been more precise. You are correct & I thank you.
This has been huge for me. Sometimes it's subtle, but I'll say things and literally feel strength leaving me. I'll recognize it and the strength will slowly return.
I'm an idiot. What does this mean? I watched the video but I assumed that he means to be aligned with your beliefs and words.
I wouldn’t self deprecate, no harm in saying “I do not understand this, can you explain it further”
Examples tend to help me understand, so I will share one with you.
Have you ever been in a group of friends, where everyone is talking over one another in an excited blitz of words. You may say something which is heard by your friends, but ignored as some one else is saying something of greater value, importance or it comes from a person with a higher chance of captivating. Now your friends know you said something but don’t know what was said. This can set a bad precedent for being ignored, but more importantly it demonstrates an example of weakness. Be selective with when you open your mouth, do so when you know you will capture attention, perk up ears, and command the conversation.
EDIT: u/SlightlyCyborg linked the exact phrases in which Peterson mentions this above, worth visiting that link.
Yes and “them” too.
They’re building a store. They’re not hiring. They’re going to make a new Star Wars movie. They passed a law. There is no they. A man is building another store, a man decided not to hire anyone, a man invested in a new movie.
They is giving power to others not acknowledging what is.
How would you say "they're going to make a new star wars movie"? He is going to make a new star wars movie? Do you say the name of the director? Saying they seems fine to me...
If you don't know who is making the movie you say "A Star Wars movie is being made" there is no point in saying they if you're not referring to anyone. Stop veiling your speech. Why are you saying "they"? Who is this they you speak of and why did you bring "they" into discussion. Speech is carried on two levels: Alpha - you speak what you think, Beta: - You speak what you thought. It indicates you're living in the past. The present is constantly related to itself.
I keep reading this thread but I have no idea what youre arguing about
Valar dohaeris - all men must die
Except the elite who will make AI and upload their consious to it.
Agreed. The language you use about yourself and others programs your perception of your reality.
Great post, idealising people or things is always a bad idea. You can achieve this type of shit too. The concept of "Chad" is the most beta thing on this sub, yet somehow even some EC's use it, pathetic. This is a very underdiscussed topic here in my opinion
Complete disagree - Chad Thundercock is hilarious and his pulp name alone provides comic relief to this forum. I love when people idealize the concept of a person who "is successful at online dating", chad "stole your girlfriend", chad "now benches 405", that shit keeps me laughing out loud man.
its when we live vicariously through others or even this fictional "Chad" character that we become cuck and stop bettering our current situation
I can definitely see where you're coming from. Chad is funny and all as a concept. The problem however arises when beta guys start calling other people Chad, thereby "idealising" them to somebody without insecurities, fears, and who will always be better than them. E.g.
"I was at the club with my LTR and this Chad stole her boohoo"
"Chad just amogged me in the gym boohoo"
"Chad was born tall and handsome and I'll never be like him boohoo"
"No matter how attractive I get, women will choose Chad over a regular guy like me boohoo*
For this reason I prefer to simply see them as guys who are good at pulling women, as a reminder that they're nothing special.
ok i agree with where youre coming from in that regard
That's because idiots have not read the most basic RP material where it clearly states that Chad (or Don Juan in some texts), much similar to the concept of The Sage for stoics in some views, DOES NOT EXIST... it is a model, just like Ideal Gas Law or something...
For the uninitiated: /u/Koryphae_ is noting that even "ideal" gases don't perfectly follow the Ideal Gas Law. Art is a lie; nothing is real.
Chad is a usefull concept. They exist, first of all so for any serious person that immediately signals that there is knowledge to be had by way of empiricism. Yes, some closeted betas on this board express homoerotic adoration for those guys, why do you care about that? That certainly isnt what I took from the real material so let them misinterpret at their own peril.
Chad reminds you that you need to step up your game because you werent born with it and you need some fucking Maybelline.
No they do not exist, the whole concept is built around the fact that Chad/Don Juan does not exist...
It's not that simple. People use these terms to quickly get a point across. You can describe a person to paint a picture of someone who is assertive, good looking and masculine traits or you can name him Chad and achieve the same thing while saving everyone time. It's functional reductionism.
The problem with this simplification is this one word that is used to describe a lot of nuanced or complex ideas starts to become more and more powerful and will mean different things to different people. One guy can talk about a chad and in his mind it's just a regular guy with unapologetic masculanity and decent looks while someone else reads it and pictures a half god.
IMO it's not up to the writer to stop using functional reductionism but up to the reader to not elevate these terms and ascribe power to them.
Chad is just a cumulative manifestation of all the qualities you find yourself lacking in. Chad is just this generation's idealized male. Except Chad is different to each person, just like the idea of a "personal Jesus Christ" today where Jesus has a relationship with everyone and not just the Catholic Church.
The idea of "Chad" in it of itself is not beta, it's just an idea. How it's used is another thing entirely.
I'm pretty sure Chad is just a figure of speech used to refer to a man who has red pill qualities.
Yeah, aren't "Chads" just naturals who happen to be really good looking to boot? Men like that definitely exist. I think what's "beta" is using the word "Chad" as a way of putting them on a pedestal.
He’s a caricature intended to help conceptualise the RP natural and make the pill a little bit easier to digest.
Stop taking things so literally.
Great post, I think you meant to say “Chad is relative to his surroundings” though. Not “relevant to”
Most of the posts in this sub are kinda pitiful but this is a good one. Right on.
It's like this in every information sharing message board. Pareto principle, 80% shit 20% good.
Saying 20% of posts cause 80% of the effects (pareto principle) isn't the same as saying 20% of the posts are good. For instance, I doubt I would consider 20% of the posts in 2x or feminism to be good. TRP is obviously better but there are still some terrible posts that get a lot of attention here. Maybe 20% of the posts here stand out from the rest, but the amount of posts that actually contribute useful original ideas to the overall body of TRP knowledge is definitely less than that.
Thats not an accurate interpretation of the pareto principle as it is used to refer to distribution. The original pareto principle was as u say, 80% of effects are due to 20% of causailities. However, we can also say 80% of women are fucked by 20% of men, or that 80% of men are weak and 20% strong. It applies to bullshit like feminism too, only 20% of feminist contributors will have something valuable to say IN THEIR WORLD. Of course, for enlightened people, the whole of feminism is allready included in another batch of 80% useless junk. The numbers are also not to be taken at faace value, the gist is that the overwhelming majority of something tends to negative, only a tiny fraction will have positive attributes.
You can bitch, or you can post the change you want to see.
Why was my thread that got 250+ upvotes removed after four days? It was called 'The consequences of enjoying the decline'?
I would if my posts weren't being removed.
Also STOP playing a weak character, be and strive for the character you want to be. There is always something holding us back, that is our identification with our personality. rewrite your own self.
And keep it up, it must not be a struggle, it should be freedom and exploration. If you fall back to your old ways you must understand that it is because you CHOOSE to fall back, because you are identified to the character that doesnt succed, doesnt get girls, doesnt make money... Its all self fullfiling prophecy. Its the beliefes you have that got you to where you are now and those beliefs are dictating your life! For example: if you tried to change and fail it will only strenghten the beliefs AND if you win you will see something bad in the win, you wont accept it or you might just say to yourself that you are just not that kind of person. Can you see the cycle now? The reality is we are free and we don't know how to just run around without guidance, we ask for permission to do this and that without trying. We have to learn to let go, not give a fuck and be FREE. https://youtu.be/YaXl0W5Oe9c
Can someone explain a bit more how labeling People like bpd and so one gives away power? New to RP here.
Putting a label on someone, like "oh, he's a Chad" subconsciously put YOU in "a different category of people than him" which might be a way to excuse yourself from progress.
"He's a natural RP guy" subconcsiously means "he has an advantage I can never have"
A label like "my gf was BPD" subconsciously excuses her bad behavior.
etc.
You hamper your own progress by assuming people are better than you because they have some sort of label on them, especially when it's a vague label YOU gave them in your mind.
EDIT:
also what another guy told you above:
Thanks. I have assumption that most People are naturals and that works AS a Nice excuse to be lazy.
The defeatism of "I wouldn't be myself if I worked to become what I perceive others to be naturally."
I believe this insight would be worth a post in itself, thanks.
BPD? Bipolar disorder? Blue Pill ___?
borderline personality disorder
I understand saying, "He's a Chad" subconsciously puts me in a different category, but so what? What if I am weak? What if I am needy? What if they are better than me at certain things? What's wrong with idealizing heroes and trying to be just like them? I use it as motivation to push myself to become the better person I know I can be.
Labels are just words at the end of the day. Now get your dick out from between your legs and go and conquer the world!
This is a refreshing post to see after that incel crap yesterday about the married dude and his best friend Chad.
Yes bill gates is a regular person too, he shits, farts, he has to eat, sleep, he cries ect... Except he is one of the richest people in the world.
I see what you're saying, but humans tend to categorize things , and each other.
I do agree that we shouldn't act like chad is without flaws , but the concept of chad is a solid one.
This post is incredibly deep. The message here is so important.
We've learned over time to label everything in our environment. We do this so quickly that we give power to things, unintentionally, so that we can "make sense" of what has happened. Unfortunately, as OP pointed out, we may be completely incorrect most of the time. We say our boss was a mastermind who tricked us into something, but as OP said, maybe we just got outsmarted by a guy who's able to pick up on things and saw an opportunity. Maybe you don't have experience seeing things in macro and you're too focused on mirco details.
The way in which we view things and how we label things/people is a crucial part of our existence in everyday life. Self-awareness is the key to learning our own systems and if they're helping or harming us.
I actually lived with a guy who was exactly this. Special forces, 4 tours of Afghan vet, Psy-ops trained. Had lost several immediate family members to suicide.
Was always happy. An incredibly energetic, effective human being, in all aspects of life. He did, however, most definitely did plot and scheme to make every man he met his bitch, and was very good at it.
Not pleasant, but an excellent learning experience.
Great fucking post.
Most of the posters on here are still beta as fuck, I for one am happy to see that. After all, it’s all relative.
When people do that I always ask myself, "Wow that person really just going to give them that, huh?" True or not, why dwell on it and make it to be something more than it is.
Every time I see someone refer to another dude as “Chad” in a post I immediately cringe.
This is exactly what i was thinking the other day whe i saw that post about thay guy that has a "Chad" friend. So much cock sucking. Is like the other guy doesnt even want to be himself when he's around of his friend. Thats not fucking rp material to me.
You also won't win if you think you are ordinary. You are the prize.
Fucking amen. Most shit here makes me cringe when i read it. Fuckin pathetic
dont ever assume anyone is better than you because its never gunna work in your favour.
Yeah but if my ex was actually BPD diagnosed. . .
On a serious note you are 100% correct. This place has become something of a pity party lately. Not that you shouldn't ever experience the anger phase, or hold onto your anger as fuel, but there's also something to be said for stoicism. Stoicism isn't coming to an echo chamber to cry about how your ex fucked another dude therefore is Bi-polar.
What I have learned is that you need a reason in order to live but most importantly - we all have to make the choice of whether we live or not. Bp is in denial Rp is accepting. You can kill yourself or take on the world both are of value and completely correct. Staying in between is bp. START ADDRESSING THE ISSUE! Everythinh else just comes natural. My favorite saying is that "once you trully become RP you no longer need TRP". Find out if you want to live or not and act. Cheers you magnificent bastards!
The only power anyone has over you is the power you give them.
I guess you gave your boss at work that power over you eh lol
Not to mention a true Machiavellian boss would not seem like a Machiavellian boss lol kind of goes against the idea
FUCKING YES!
Don’t ever put anyone on a pedestal, they are normal people just like you and I.
*Chad is highly contextual. * Shit even I was him. I’m not 6 foot tall, but I was charismatic enough to be one of the most popular people in graduate school because I was the cute city kid who was worldly, dressed nice, was athletic and muscular . intelligent, and social enough to be well liked by teachers and classmates. When I would walk in the room, girls would turn there heads(not bragging). A lot of these fucking idiots and incels forget that it’s the environment that helps create a Chad too.
Love this post brah, you the man.
My ex was actually bipolar though. Clinically diagnosed and on meds. Cray cray
You really don't think there's actually natural RP alpha men? That you have to read a message board in order to become a RP alpha? There are many naturally RP men, and this mostly comes from having high testoerone levels. comes naturally
Ive never had testosterone problems, id slept with a number of women and had no issue getting pussy. I also kept myself busy through gym and boxing - all of this was pre trp. Yet here i am.
How successful, agressive, and how good looking a man is does not make him a natural rp. The lessons here are common sense on a natural level. A red pilled man is a man who can articulate the information for what it is.
War machine likley had high test, yet he is sitting behind bars reflecting on how he was cucked by a porn star. All those pro body builder inject testosterone. Are they all rped aswell?
And what of the members here who have internalised trp but have testosterone problems? Are they less red pill?
I swear to God nearly every fucking thread AND its comment section on this subreddit is pure motherfucking GOLD...
Chad is not simply "relevant to his surroundings"
Chad is a man considered attractive enough for most women, because he is tall, has a perfect face and high status, being relevant is only a small part of being Chad
OP is preaching Semantics to the masses who can’t or won’t get it on a deep mgtow level.
You know the masses in any community are the peasants and then you have the upper echelons. Don’t waste lessons on students not ready or able to learn.
Teaching is the best method to familiarise yourself with the topic.
MGTOW? What is so "deep" about a temper tantrum?
Best post in a while. Period.
Finally a short and well put together post. I wish I can upvote multiple times.
I said the same thing yet my posts get removed.
Great job on the post m8.
Try puberty. I'm trying and improving, really, but any 'downsides' of myself turn into reasons for depression during puberty. Gaining confidence is incredibly hard when you're in this loop.
Read my comment here. Find it. Stop the loop that YOU created for yourself. Also understand that you might not be ready to be completely free, sometimes you have to hit bottom so that you can say ok I am done with that shit, time for something new.
The only way I can get out of that loop is by doing and achieving things that show myself I matter. I feel down about 3 times a week, and I just can't control my thoughts due to the way I'm feeling. But, no matter how depressed I feel, I try to finish school with proper grades so I can go to university, I try to lift 3 times a week and I try to expand my social circles as much as possible, all in the hopes that this loop exists because of puberty and I can get out of it when time passes. I don't want to reach the bottom as long as I can still prevent it.
Let's try to keep this post at 666 karma