I’m not going to beat a dead horse, but we’ve all heard of the following before. Basically when women has casual sex but hold out with serious prospects. It seems that it comes across to men as though women are rewarding the flings and punishing the relationship material dude.
Then, many women seem to brand this line of thinking as absurd and ridiculous (not what we’re debating here). So, I’m genuinely curious if women can actually see it from the mens’ perspective? If so, then why force a change of perspective. If not, what would help make it more relatable?
[–]badgersonice 30 points31 points32 points (8 children) | Copy Link
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[–]ThatGirl50 16 points17 points18 points (22 children) | Copy Link
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[–]Atlas__B__ShrugginI AM AN INTROVERT 131 points132 points133 points (304 children) | Copy Link
[–]spacechicken19901 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
Love it when you give it to em rough & uncensored. By far best commenter when you decide it’s worth ur effort.
[–]Atlas__B__ShrugginI AM AN INTROVERT 21 points22 points23 points (1 child) | Copy Link
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[–]dbhmilolmgrjk1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Games like this are why I no longer physically defend women, I don't care if she's being raped in an alley way, I won't even call the cops at this point.
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[–]Ukvemkvdarixar1 points [recovered] (10 children) | Copy Link
wtf, chill out m'lady.
only correct assumption you made about me is that I'm asshole, but go on, huh.
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[–]conte-candy1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Ugh, nice guy alert.
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[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian -1 points0 points1 point (3 children) | Copy Link
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[–]ANRthrowawayABF1 points [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link
Yknow who else ain't complaining? the dudes who 'pump and dump' by simply sending a 'wyd? text. But hey its all about effort right hahaha.
[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]pinacolorada1 points [recovered] (30 children) | Copy Link
See, I understand the man logic.
But the woman logic is that we want guys who like us as a person and actually enjoy spending time with us. The idea that he would think of being in a relationship as the “effort” he had to put in to get sex out of us, is just really gross and upsetting to think about.
[–]ANRthrowawayABF1 points [recovered] (29 children) | Copy Link
What's the incentive for doing the baloney date stuff then when you've been having casual sex with dudes you don't care for? What does the one who puts the effort in get out of it?
[–]YveisGrey 12 points13 points14 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]Assassins-BleedMixed babies are the future 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]MuTron1 16 points17 points18 points (15 children) | Copy Link
[–]ANRthrowawayABF1 points [recovered] (14 children) | Copy Link
Okay so Chad gets casual sex but no incentive for men who put effort in then.. guess you proved the redpill guys right, lower effort is better. AF/BB IS LAW!
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[–]Notsonewguy7Purple Pill Man/ Ex-hetero 5 points6 points7 points (4 children) | Copy Link
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[–]Notsonewguy7Purple Pill Man/ Ex-hetero 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]redditsuxnoww1 points [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link
when women asked men to stop objectifying women, men did it, many of us changed.
when men asked women to stop objectifying men, they have responses like this.
gyow fellas.
[–]Atlas__B__ShrugginI AM AN INTROVERT 7 points8 points9 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]redditsuxnoww1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
we would, if yall would stop censoring us we can be allowed to warn other men of the medussa ways
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[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian -1 points0 points1 point (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]Atlas__B__ShrugginI AM AN INTROVERT 3 points4 points5 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]GridReXXAttraction Triggers Nazi 196 points197 points198 points (418 children) | Copy Link
[–]YveisGrey1 points [recovered] (14 children) | Copy Link
Lol best comment! They literally think the world revolves around them.
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[–]California-Queen1 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
They don’t have a legitimate answer to your question. The only thing men can do to make them happier is live our lives according to their preferences. It drives them mad that men aren’t doing that. Oh well, sucks to suck.
[–]SaBahRub 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]Moolg86SHE AIN'T GOT NO TYPE. HIGH SMV IS THE ONLY THING THAT SHE LIKES 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]Grand-Parking89161 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
Unfortunately, a lot of women DON'T understand men and can't tell the difference between "really likes you" and "just wants sex" until after it's too late.
I've seen too many women deal with heartbreaks because they couldn't comprehend that a man would sleep with them without the intention of committing in the near future. Some guys might call that arrogance on the woman's part, but from what I've seen it's absolute pure ignorance and naivety on their part.
So many women would be spared if they had friends like you advising them. Most girls are in a clueless circle jerk trying to figure guys out because they literally don't get it.
[–]GridReXXAttraction Triggers Nazi 6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]ThetaOmega1 points [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link
You are intentionally missing the entire context of the argument.
If everyone else got ice cream without waiting, but once you came up to get ice cream, they made only YOU wait for an undetermined time, even thou there is still plenty of ice cream left, would that not be considered punishment?
If everyone had to wait to get ice cream approx the same amount of time, then there would be no issue.
[–]MuTron1 3 points4 points5 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]ThetaOmega1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
That is NOT the context of the argument at hand, no matter how much you try and make it out to be.
Just because it is something that a man wants, does not make it a "reward". Just because it is an enjoyable part of the relationship, does not make it a "reward".
[–]akihonj -2 points-1 points0 points (44 children) | Copy Link
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[–]akihonj1 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
Oh yes more teenage outbursts, ok stop with the introspection and go straight to cutting yourself, why not you can go back to tumbler and tell everyone how abused you are.
If you're going to play games then I can get just as shitty. Try to behave and present at least as mature as you claim to be IRL
[–]SpaceC4seNo Pill -1 points0 points1 point (3 children) | Copy Link
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[–]SuperSaiyanAssHair1 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
You're fucking crazy if you think we do. It's the regressive societies, and China or other repressive states that do.
[–]GridReXXAttraction Triggers Nazi -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]SaBahRub 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]sublimemongrelBecky, Esq. 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]redditsuxnoww1 points [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link
your argument is absolutely valid.
we do NOT live in a society anymore, and since we are all individualists, with rights, there is no need for these concerns of men, which require a cultural change, to be implemented.
however, when there is a war with china/russia, is it right to draft men for the war?
also, do you think that men should pay taxes to subsidize abortions?
following your own logic, men should not be supporting women either. however, at the moment, men get taxed more than women and government programs, in general, only pay out 5cents of funding for every 85 cents they spend on women.
so if you are right, then we are indeed not a society anymore. dont ask men to step up anymore also.
[–]ThatGirl50 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]braveopinionhaver1 points [recovered] (39 children) | Copy Link
It does impact you, though. It will catch up to you when you finally decide to settle down with a guy and he feels insulted by how long you make him wait/how little you do for him in the bedroom compared to other men you’ve been with. You might end up losing that guy once he realizes.
[–]GridReXXAttraction Triggers Nazi 26 points27 points28 points (24 children) | Copy Link
[–]braveopinionhaver1 points [recovered] (23 children) | Copy Link
That’s what this post is about... the different standards women have for hookup vs relationship material. Did you read the OP before you replied?
[–]GridReXXAttraction Triggers Nazi 7 points8 points9 points (22 children) | Copy Link
[–]braveopinionhaver1 points [recovered] (14 children) | Copy Link
It seems like you were saying, I make my own choices for my own reasons, how can you expect me to base my decisions on how men feel? Is that wrong?
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[–]braveopinionhaver1 points [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link
I have female friends who have had a hard time finding a man because it’s pretty well known what they got up to when they were younger. You can’t hide or lie about your past forever.
[–]Silverpixelmate 8 points9 points10 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]braveopinionhaver1 points [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
I’m not sure you understand what the OP is saying. Also you seem angry. Are you ok?
[–]upalse -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]jackandjill22Red Pill misanthropic, contrarian -1 points0 points1 point (3 children) | Copy Link
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[–]redditsuxnoww1 points [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
you are under the impression that you are dealing with computer nerds.
ive been to over 60 countries and speak 4 languages, and i still think awalt.
stop condescending responses plz
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If it was just about you we'd call that masturbation.
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I literally don't know a single man who thinks like that. This is women-think.
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Men that get laid easy don't want their fun years to end (ever) and get away with that to various degrees, men that don't get laid never had their fun years and are probably highly uncomfortable settling with a woman who had hers, but will do so if no other option is available.
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Its reasonable if we all had the same access to casual sex.
Average men don't, most women do.
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Let's see if I can give you an example.
I'm a guy, who would take women out to expensive restaurants and travel the world with them, because I found it fun to travel with someone. But I had no interest in dating these women.
Then, when a woman I did have interest in, I didn't take on these trips, or go to fancy restaurants. Because I wanted to make sure she wanted me as a person, not a gold digger looking to always travel and eat at 5 star restaurants.
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[–]ThetaOmega1 points [recovered] (24 children) | Copy Link
It is exactly an equivalent scenario. It's not the "spending money" part, but it is the trips and the restaurants that are the point of it. Because both parties could enjoy it, but one party is getting far more benefit from it since they didn't have to put in nearly as much effort.
And you are intentionally missing the entire point. The point is that all the other women before got to go on all of these fancy trips without putting in time in the relationship, and I as the man, had no interest in a relationship with them. But you, as a woman who I am interested in a relationship with, does not get to enjoy the trips and fancy restaurants without at least putting in a LOT of time before I am comfortable enough to do so.
You are side stepping the heart of the matter, and deflecting by focusing on the minute details of this one example.
We can use ice cream as an example if you want. Person A gives ice cream to all other people right away, with zero strings for all of those other people. But Person A singles out Person B, and makes Person B wait much longer for ice cream, because they must "prove themselves", even thou there is no shortage of ice cream. Why would person B not be upset that no one else had to "prove themselves" and they got the ice cream right away, but they had to jump through hoops and wait.
Person A does/gives all other persons activity/object "Y" with no intention of a long term relationship, right away, no strings attached.
Person A then wants a relationship with Person B, but makes Person B wait far, far longer for Y, because Person B must "prove themselves".
[–]thelajestic 8 points9 points10 points (14 children) | Copy Link
[–]ThetaOmega1 points [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link
Yet again, you are hyper focusing on the details of the examples, rather than the heart of the matter. Guy wants sex. Some guys were able to sleep with her with no effort, whereas she decides this one guy who she wants an LTR must wait longer than the other guys.
Yes, a guy is going to get pissed off at this. it's not because he sees it as a commodity, or an object, or whatever. Its because it is completely arbitrary to him why he must put in more time.
Waiting any longer than the previous guys, due to only the fact that she wants a relationship with THIS guy, but not the others. So if she is alright with one night stands with other guys, but not with the guy she wants to have a long term relationship with, ONLY for the fact that she wants to keep him around, is too long.
As I have stated in other posts, I just want consistency. If she tends to wait before she sleeps with someone, and she is consistent with that, then that is exactly what I think should be applied. If that means 6-7 months for every guy, then good for her. If that means end of the first date, then good for her. Just be consistent and stop with this justification "Well, I don't want this guy to think I'm easy, even thou I have done ONS with other guys. I wasn't interested in those other guys. But the guy I am interested in, we will not sleep on the first date!"
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Why is everyone intentionally trying to ignore the heart of the matter, and instead hyper focusing on the metaphor?
This is why I gave the ice cream example as well. An example that no one who pretends to not understand the heart of OPs point. Making one person wait for something that all others before them did not have to wait for, is going to make the person who had to wait irritated and put off by that fact.
I'm reminded of the saying "You can't make someone understand something, if their livelihood is dependent on them not understanding it.
But I think many women do understand why men are upset, and for self preservation, they throw out deflections like "well if he was really only after sex, then he wasn't worth having" which they know is BS. Which is why I tried to use the trips and restaurant example. Which is why people are now deflecting and hyper focusing on the example itself, instead of the heart of the matter.
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Do men not understand that this is a result of their actions? Women holding out on sex stems from a few reasons for most women.
If women weren’t held to some higher standards and expected to be pure and chaste while also being a sex goddesses then maybe more men wouldn’t have to wait for sex.
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No it's the other way around. Women who make men wait are treating sex like it's a reward to hand out after he's passed some prerequisites. If it's just a fun activity or a romantic act, why wouldn't you do it right away?
Imagine a guy asking you to do a fun activity on the first date and you decline saying "oh no, I don't do anything FUN on a first date!" LOL. Gotta get that commitment first before doing any fun activities together.
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When you're in elementary school and you get a pizza party is that a reward or a fun activity? If your teacher just says, "hey random pizza party this Friday!" that's a fun activity. But if she says "Pizza party if you all behave for the next month" then that's a reward for your behavior.
The woman is the one who is withholding sex until certain conditions are met. She's making it into a reward. If she saw it as just a fun activity she would want to do it right away.
Not for themselves they don't. But when they put conditions on when a man can get it they turn it into one. It might not be a conscious behavior but it's pure manipulation.
We're not talking about women who don't give it up easily for anyone. We're talking about women who have different rules for hot alpha fuckboys and safe beta providers with relationship potential.
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but
This is the part that doesn't compute for men. You say you're prone to attachment from sex but you'll have casual sex with someone you don't even like who you think is stupid just because he's hot.
[–]inter_Galactic11 points [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link
How do guys become this guy? I can be good and sweet all day but I want to be this guy at night so what does a guy do?
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'Hey I'll make the guy I like take me out to dinner, spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on me and put him through the ringer to only 9 years later finally reciprocate, meanwhile multiple Chad's have been plowing me every night over the course of 9 years because they send me 'wyd?' text's at 2am'
Such a bullsh*t excuse, you would have to be mentally aloof to believe it...
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I was being facetious, I'm highlighting the idea that you counter-intuitively have casual encounters with LVM but make men you do like work for it which of course is backwards logic. If anything it repulses the HVM and will attract more LVM because they now know its easier to have casual encounters with you by being low value.
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Do you really think most guys are having casual flings? Its a very small minority.
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[–]inter_Galactic11 points [recovered] (15 children) | Copy Link
Whats ever so often? Every few years? Most women who are at least average have no problem scratching that itch. All the women I have dated have had a "hoe phase" the same is not true for guys. Women don't realize how few partners we actually have had probably because its so far removed from their reality.
A part of me suspects infidelity is sometimes related to this. The men who didn't experience this prioritize it later in life. This is wrong but that's all the more reason to get it out of your system first.
[–]asdf333aza1 points [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
Head over to reddit's relationshipadvice and you see tons of married men who can't even get blowjobs from their wives and then later come to find out she used to get gangbanged, suck dick, do anal and have rountine threesome with her previous relationships or with guys she cheats with.
Yet, he is in a dead bed room with the exact same women, while he is paying all her bills, supporting her lifestyle, listening to her complaints and emotional baggage and so on and so on. Why is he doing so much for her, when she gave more to her previous guys or to her adulterous partner(s).
To put it into the female perspective: Imagine you're a girl, and your husband never gives you oral. You cook, clean, iron his clothes, work your own job, and take care of the kids by yourself most of the time. Hell, let's say you even make more money than him, while doing all of this. You are basically superwoman and you man REFUSES to give you oral sex, even though you really really enjoy it and may even need it to orgasm. No matter how much you want it, he won't go down on you. Well then you swallow your pride and desires and just deal with it for years. Well one day you run into his ex (or say you catch him cheating). And the other girls actually informs you that this guy (your husband) has a magical tongue that does wonders. A tongue that is basically a living virbrator. And turns out he loves giving oral to OTHER GIRLS, he just doesn't want to do it for YOU, the women who does EVERYTHING for him. How would that make you feel? Would you doubt yourself? Would you wonder what's wrong with your body? Why does he do it for other women, who contribute nothing to his life, yet he won't do it for you the women who holds his life together? would you stick around and tolerate that kind of disrespect for the rest of your life. And per the advice of other females on this thread, you should do jsut that. Just get over it, as he doesn't owe you a damn thing, despite this long term relationship / marriage and everything else you do for him.
See how fucked up that is?
That's what you women are telling men, when you TRY to make him do more for sex, when the guy before him got it for free. You got pregnant from a one night stand from a guy who just asked you to come over, and now you have a kid running around. Now you want the guy right after, him has to take you out on a date, be a good father figure to your bastard, pay your bills, be in shape and hot (despite your mom tum), clean your house, have a good job, be serious about marriage, help with house chores, cook, surprise you with gifts, drive you places, charm your family. And after all of that, you might have sex with him, while the guy before him got to hit it raw for absolutely nothing and never had to see you again.
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Women make no sense. I like to dominate women in the bdsm sense and I once had a slave who was engaged to another guy. She was able to sneak away once every few weeks to come over and "serve" me. She told me that she didn't give her fiance blowjobs, yet she did all sorts of depraved acts for me (I'll save you the details). This other guy was offering to be a life partner to her and she wouldn't blow him, but she would do absolutely anything I wanted even though she was simply a play toy in my eyes.
Obviously a woman like that is outside the norm (or is she)?
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