Backstory: I'm a 3rd year in college and have been in a relationship for almost 4 years so, for much of my school life, I didn't get a chance to experience the hook-ups and casual fun of college. A committed relationship has its benefits, but I (like any other guy) always wanted to enjoy having sex with different women. Recently, my relationship finally fizzled out, and I was single again
One concern I had was that I was out of the game for so long that I thought the standards of women were extremely high. I always thought you need to be an extremely attractive dude with a perfect body and 10/10 charming personality to woo a girl into having sex with you.
I learned that I was completely wrong. I matched with this cute girl from Tinder, and we went out to get some coffee. We both kind of felt awkward, but in the mutually entertaining way (we would just kinda stare at each other and laugh).
I ask her to get a drink with me, things just clicked, we go back to my place and she initiates sex with me.
In my mind, I'm like "it's that easy? REALLY?!". From that day forward, every single party/tinder date has led to me taking some girl home and fucking her. This entire time, all I had to do was just ask
Moral of the story: this is by no means a brag post or anything (I'm a pretty average and dorky guy), but by simply not being a total ass and putting myself out there, I'm having sex with girls that I thought were completely out of my league.
Just some insight for the guys out there like me who thought they weren't good enough, when in reality, it really is as simple as just putting yourself out there
Your title is totally misleading, but your point remains valid.
Many guys don't try and close the deal fast enough. It's all about 'striking while the iron is hot'. Say you're at a party and vibing with some chick. Most guys tactic would be to grab her number at the end of the night. Get excited, brag to their friends and start texting her. They end up confused that after 2 weeks of texting/talking the girl is swerving his invites and flaking on date requests.
Whereas a guy who knows what he's doing knows it's 'now or never'. He leads the chick away and isolates her, invites her back to his place that night and closes. Now, after having already had sex with her, when he texts her she's immediately ready to see him. She might even initiate sexting and whatever. The difference is night and day..
Guys fall into trap 1 because they don't understand women and how their attraction works. I think it was Chris Rock who said, 'when a girl wants to sleep with you, just shut up and let it happen'. These 2 examples also have a lot to do with the Chad AF/BB archetypes; when in reality it's more so the man who acted first gets the girl.
The truth is most guys are afraid of sex; more so than many women. Either through false beliefs that women are saintly and need to be wine and dined for several weeks. Or just insecurity of their own actions.
Maybe I’m going to struggle to explain this really well, but it’s probably worth remembering that she’s probably there for the exact same reason that you are, and like you is also going to be pretending that her main purpose isn’t just getting laid. Removing the need for her to pretend to be all good, decent and non-slutty often speeds things up. If you think about it, it’s in the interest of both parties to remove such pointless psychological barriers to fucking each other.
Not necessarily. Plenty of women just do it for the attention and a reason to wear something different.
True. But for many, a dick is the ultimate representation of getting attention, lol.
To remove these barriers, is that then just kino, isolation etc?
Don’t feel such a need to pretend that you’re ‘not of those guys.’ Because while she’s trying to give you the impression that she’s not one of those girls that would want to fuck on the first date, the cold, brutal reality of it all is that she is most likely there because she is looking to get fucked that very evening. So skip the bullshit and move onto the main course.
Another thing is many guys believe that girls become more attracted the longer they text but it’s actually the opposite I’ve found.
When I get a girls number I find that my chances of closing are the highest within the first week and then the probability of flaking becomes higher and higher.
Just my experience
True. She’s more likely thinking, “common already” or “he only wants me a friend”.
I think guys are not so much afraid of sex as they are afraid of the reaction they'll get if they ask a woman.
Yes. Every guy’s worst fear is being called creepy
I would say it's more getting a false rape accusation.
really? my worst fear is diving in the dark and finding myself in the middle of a school of sharks
Ugly guys get called creepy, really good looking guys don’t. If she calls you creepy when you know in your heart that you haven’t been, just forget the bitch and move on.
Cant tell you how many times I've been complimented on how 'forward' I've been. I've laid virgins and had them explain to me that I'm the first guy who made it easy, they just had to go along.
When you # close, she has to plan a time to meet and trust a guy she hardly knows. When you act on an opportunity, there is no work involved, she's just along for the ride.
How do you do it? Id like to hear about your style.
Just applying the basics you read on this sub honestly.
If you're meeting up for a date plan something active. If you approach at a bar or some other venue have a short plan for somewhere to go once things get rolling. Dont try too hard to be funny or impress her, just tell her about your (hopefully interesting) life and hold frame like you're James Bond. Use easy kino: Walk across a busy area and hold her hand as you guide her through, place your hand on her back as she enters a door, etc. After you're bored at the first venue, tell her you want to go on a walk and take her to somewhere nice where you can sit down. You must k-close. This shouldn't be hard at all if you've done everything else. So many guys would never even consider kissing her on the first meeting. She is not expecting it but she wants it more than anything. Build up some tension by leaning in close during your conversation and continue kino throughout.
At this point you're clear. She might not come home with you on the first night no matter what you say. But she'll want more. Remember that if she comes to your house, she is fully aware that sex is a possibility. You just need to be the one to initiate. Start with making out and just feel up her body, do this for a while. Use your voice, she wants to hear how you feel about her. The first real move should be a playful attempt to lift her shirt up. She'll probably blush and pull it down. But now she knows what's up. Continue to escalate and it will come off and by that point you're golden.
Tl;dr start somewhere she is comfortable, move to somewhere she is not. Be the one who makes her feel safe, hold her hand, and guide her. Frame > anything else. You must k-close as soon as possible. Get her to your place and give her what she wants.
A line I find effective while making out is to passionately and firmly tell (don’t ask) her to unbutton your shirt. Once she takes it off, it feels natural and less...middle-schooly for you to take off her shirt and then her bra. Once you both have your shirts off it usually goes reliably from there.
When it’s time close I seductively ask her “do you want me to get a condom?” This is great because it reduces her options to fucking with or without a condom, so then when she says “yes” she actually feels good about herself for being responsible. If you ask “wanna fuck” the “proper” answer is to say no. This all makes a subtle yet important difference.
Note: Sometimes she’ll instead reply to the condom question with some version of “if you want”. I think by you bringing the subject up, they also feel like you must be responsible and thus can be trusted to not have anything. I always do use a condom because I know just how many women are cool not using one with strangers, but it’s something worth mentioning.
I'm guessing he's just not beating around the bush and show his true intentions.
It's all about making the girl comfortable around you and escalate.
So true. The will he, won’t he, dialogue in her head throws it all off. Just take charge in a respectable way and make your intentions clear.
Yeah. I've been surprised how easy it can be. Often the biggest battle is in your head. Once you conquer the fear you just do what you want and It happens. And when it doesn't you don't care. I remember being amazed how easy it is to just take a girl from a date or straight out of a club where we met to my place. Just "let's go to my place".
I’m dealing with this now. I don’t want to close because the thought of sex just sends me into fight or flight mode. Ah well, only one way to get over it. Have more sex.
Just don’t worry about performing on the job and worry more about actually passing the interview. The worst case scenario is that the sex won’t be so great, but you still had sex. Unless you’ve got like a 2 inch micropenis and she’s gonna tell everyone at work, but even then she’ll never be able to unsuck your cock, so...
Yea, it’s totally performance anxiety. I just need to focus on enjoying myself rather than impressing anyone (especially the girl). It’s funny too, I’ve got no rational reason to be anxious about sex. I’m not insecure about my body, quite the opposite really. But if I’m not a total rockstar in the sack my stupid hamster tells me I’m inadequate as a man. So my solution, generally speaking, is to not try so that I won’t prove that stupid hamster right. Which is just more hamstering.
You've recignized a weakness. Good. Now how do you plan to overcome it? Rhetorical question, of course.
I read a really good sex book call “she comes first” that gave solid, practical advice to sex. Sex isn’t really that intuitive in a lot of ways, so doing research on what girls like - it helps to have a willing volunteer to experiment with - could help your nerves by providing a sexual “game plan” you can rely on.
Or the dude is just afraid he won't perform and will be shameful. Women have pressure, but men do as well...
Don’t worry. Bad performance in bed often not down to the individual but the combination of partners. Sometimes when the sex is bad, you two just weren’t a good match, so move on. If you’re going to bang her more than once, you’ve still got to learn about her preferences in bed, so as long as you don’t cum in less 60 seconds, it’s gonna be ok, lol.
....because of the implication.
This. He’s way way oversimplified it. If a girl matches with you, you’re halfway there. She’s already somewhat attracted to only you out of thousands and you just need to seal the deal. His title should be “if a girl is attracted to you just be forward”
Yeah people get way too excited about number closes, the PUA community sort of has itself to blame. The girl gets her little pump of endorphins knowing you want her number, then it fizzles out and she's riding some other guy. It doesn't mean a number close is bad, if you're starting out and couldn't even talk to girls, it's progress, but don't get stuck in that plateau thinking you're really suave because you have a bunch of Becky's in your phone and your 'recents' is drier than a raisin.
What if, as the guy, you're not comfortable having sex within that timeframe and prefer to get to know someone a bit more even if it's for a fling? Does that mean you're at an inherent disadvantage?
Yes, this is going to be some tough medicine and correct me if you truly think i'm wrong. I say this because it was my problem for years and I have been guilty of using your defensive reasoning in my own life previously. You're at a disadvantage because you're being dishonest and projecting weakness.
You're fearful of being judged based on your performance. Whether that's performance in the pick up itself (being funny, dominant) or doing the dead (sex). Naive guys think that if you just 'get to know' the girl well enough first, then you negate that pressure and she's not going to judge you in the way she might a guy who picked her up in a bar one night. You're relying almost on a friendship to cushion the blow.
It may not feel that way to you. But that's how it comes across to women - because despite how much they might want to, they cannot override their natural ingrained attraction triggers. The harsh truth is you can't get past women's judgement - it's nature, but you can learn to understand it and behave in it's favour.
What's worse is the pain of rejection and the hamster confusion she will throw your way to get rid of you is far greater if you use this tactic than if you just went for it within the first few times of meeting her. That's the friendzone at it's worst. You're asking her to take the power and she, on a basic level doesn't want it.
I'm certainly not fearless when it comes to women. In fact, I suffer from social anxiety that I've been steadily trying to get rid of. I don't think, however, that automatically means my desire to get to know someone is solely based on fear. I enjoy getting to know how and what a person thinks while slowly also escalating physically. I don't feel comfortable or sexually attracted to most women to want to immediately want them to suck my dick. In rare cases, where I've noticed a girl flirting with me quickly, it also makes me uncomfortable. It's as if my mind is wondering "Why is this girl doing this already? Let's talk like people first." And the times where I've been direct with a girl it feels forced. I'm doing it cause that's how the game is supposed to be played rather than doing what I want.
IF a girl is so hot that I just look at her and I can feel my dick grow in my pants, sure. I would say it's fear that holds me back. But in the realistic cases it's a mix. I can be talking to a girl and her personality turns me off or she makes me think she's probably has a STD and I should avoid her or she's crazy or she's stupid or whatever. I want to know if that's the case before I fuck her. Also, feeling like there's some affection and meeting of minds between a girl and I makes everything more chill and fun. If I'm with someone and I feel the whole time I have to run a performance, that's not fun. That's work.
I think this is the true problem tbh. I'll call it toxic femininity, ha ha. Men have to be what women want and convince themselves they want it. That's kind the hidden premise of all seduction, I suppose. TRP likes to mask it up as freeing manning up and all that, but I think a large amount of men would def pick to be able to get to know a girl in a nice way first then cocky funny. Otherwise why do guys innately choose to take it slower like getting a girls number during a party rather than fuck until they learn? I don't believe it's ALL about fear. It has to be their preference. Add to it that even pros get tired of the game after a while and find it empty and I think it's pretty safe to say it's all about appeasing women's sex instincts and men would prefer something different and not just cause it's easier and more comfortable.
Can you elaborate on that? Maybe, give an example?
This is a whole lot of beta male hamstering. Take on board what i said in the initial reply. This line of behavior will never work out well for you.
Why do you think it's hamstering? What outside of the conclusion that you think is beta makes you believe it's not genuine?
Yes.
Imagine if a woman is saying "no" to every guy who tries to initiate. She pushes them all away except for a couple of nice guys who hang around waiting for the right time. And there's no right time to escalate things with the nice guys (not necessarily because there's anything wrong with them but shit's now more complicated and difficult and they weren't even closers to start with).
When I'm talking about this I mean after spending 5-10 hours with actually substantive conversation with the person. Then I feel comfortable. It seems like you are drawing from conclusions from the beta male archetype that can never make a move cause he thinks things have to be magical. I am not like that.
i know if i want to fuck a girl within 10 seconds of seeing her, you're insecure and lying to yourself
I know if I'm physically attracted to someone instantly. Just because I'm physically attracted to someone doesn't mean I'd fuck them though.
AMEN. I had a girl a few years ago I fucked ask me that night why I didn't do it that same night I met her. It makes sense though. It becomes a drawn out process for her. "Oh great when is he going to text, oh good he's texting. Nothing sexual yet just lame cat jokes and memes . . . wow he really sucks. Wow really? 5 days later and now I have to go to a movie with him and everything?"
Hmm.. I partially agree with this. I've seen this overzealousness get shutdown hard.
Title just 'just ask for sex', post says 'she initiated'.
You got laid, that's nice, but there's no real message or learnings here.
I can only imagine how many people shoot themselves in the foot with all this game tactic bullshit... 😂😂
I agree. Sure there's some truth to game. Game will help you iron out the awkwardness, the inconsistencies, the ugly little details about your personality but I too have found it not nearly as important as I originally set out to believe.
So fucking true all u have to do is not be a weirdo and be the girls type other than major changes in looks or status a girl is gonna fuck you if she wants to and if she don't wanna fuck it's rare that ur gonna magically game her into fuckinng girls see brought that shit so easy
The problem here is “not be a weirdo” can mean any combination of unattractive blue behaviors leading to you not being laid even if your “her type” (which doesn’t matter much most of the time if your game is tight).
Yes, bad game can be due to overthinking. But good game =/= no or “not be a weirdo” game, although not being a weirdo is a requisite for good game.
So learn game. Be attractive. AND don’t be a weirdo.
If game actually worked a lot you would be banging a new girl every day. The amount that it works is not that big. And yeah I agree with the character improve stuff but social status matters way more.
Step one: be good looking enough to actually get tinder matches with girls you wanna fuck
A better step one: Ditch such apps and just try to pick up girls in real life. They’re far less fussy when the real product is placed right in front of them rather than just being listed in the online cock catalogue with all the others.
Doesnt work as well if you hate the bar atmosphere and you're not college aged anymore. I'm a fairly stoic guy and I don't drink or smoke so parties/bars aren't my thing, but I've had pretty good success on Tinder.
However, I agree that it's not that viable for most guys, even TRP "educated" guys. I'm above average looking and significantly above average in terms of body, and I still don't get as many matches as I'd like. I've had girls, who I'm objectively hotter than, show me their accounts and they have 3-4x my matches.
The reality of the situation is that Tinder, much like dating in general, is a female market, but you can still make yourself stand out. One girl I've been talking to has around 900 matches and 3 pages of unopened snaps at any given moment, but I'm the one who's been fucking her for the past two weeks, not the beta orbiters blowing up her phone.
Edit: This is me rn, I'm not like huge by any means but I'm usually the biggest guy in the gym. I'm not as lean as I want to be, but I'm getting there.
https://imgur.com/EfbqZMe
https://imgur.com/Msc5MsG
Most girls don't care nearly as much as you think they do about abs. They definitely help and I'm sure Id get a few more matches if I had a solid shirtless pic on my Tinder, but it's not like a deal breaker. I'm probably getting close to the treshold where I'm too "big/disgusting" for most girls anyway.
At this point I've come to the realization that I honestly might be too intimidating for a lot of girls, which is annoying since I really need to work on my cold approaching. I've significantly increased my game overall in the past 4-6 months, but my cold approach skills are lacking the most.
You are on a ton of gear......Chicks pick up on this.
I was going to say, I don't know how you dress irl vs gym, but from that picture you definitely have limited options for females. Not saying it's a bad thing just target appropriately.
Would you mind elaborating? I figured my best target group would be girls who lift, since they're most used to/into guys like me. I do plan on getting bigger and leaner in the future which probably cuts out even more girls.
How can you tell? Is it that weird trap bulge?
My vascularity and to a lesser extent my delts are a big giveaway. Also, I'm probably bigger than most can get naturally, especially for my age.
Token female here, I am fit and not into your body type. I personally go for hypotrophy rather than hypertrophy of the muscle for a lot of reasons. That's just my personal preference- so you do you buddy.
Day game bro, you see a good looking chick, you talk to her. Fuck bars and excuses.
You are big and ripped enough so you should be able to do quite well in daytime cold approaches like I do. I have more bf% than you and I can pull easily. I only approach the ones who check me out, and despite being almost 50, lots of gray, 5'8, and a gorilla like belly (that's going away), I get hit on often in summer, in winter they can't see the muscle under my jacket. Both overtly hit on and girls putting themselves in a position for me to open them, plus the smiles with eye contact. Learn how to spot the ones into you and its fucking easy to pull girls. I do very well with 18-28 and 40+, but even the just hitting the wall girls notice me, but they're looking for a retirement ATM not a wild fuck from a silver back gorilla looking guy.
Most men never come close to the muscle we have, they won't put in the work or they have no idea how much work they should be doing. It will work to your benefit later in life, but don't destroy your joints building more. The thing nobody tells you is that later in life you have to carry the mass around without needing it for much, you have to work at keeping the fat off such can be a problem when the testosterone wanes in your late 30s, and you end up eating more expensive food to maintain your health as your ability to heal takes a downturn. It hurts longer when you fuck something up. That's not a justification to not lift, but an admonition to not get overly muscular. Wiping your ass can get problematic with just a handful of % increase in bf.
Thanks for the kind words man, I really appreciate it. I've definitely been trying to put myself out in more situations to be able to hit on girls, it's just hard with work+gym. I've debated on hitting at girls at the gym, but I've gotten mixed responses when I've asked other guys about doing that. I'm 5'8" as well, and I've come to terms with it. It's a bit shorter than average but it's w/e, can't have it all right?
And I definitely plan on focusing more on my joints in the coming years, I haven't squat in nearly 2 years and I'll probably drop other barbell shit soon. I'm at 380 Bench 240 OHP rn, so once I hit a few milestones I'll probably be done. I don't really care that much about strength, as I already focus more on volume and light, relatively, weight.
What reason do you have to not hit on girls at the gym? Afraid of rejection and the other guys laughing at you?
What if I get zero ioi whatsoever?
was the gear worth it? I could see girls being intimidated by you approaching them. Depending on your style, you could easily appear like a bigger Jersey Shore member
Yeah my haircut and face make me look straight out of Jersey Shore lol. People constantly ask if I'm Italian, but I'm like 99% Ukrainian.
I mean I don't lift or do gear for women, Im just very passionate about the gym/bodybuilding. I've weighed the pros and cons and honestly, there's worse things I could be doing. I eat clean, do my cardio, don't do any rec drugs or alcohol.
This is probably beyond the scope of this sub but gauging whether its "worth it" is very much a personal decision. Most normal people seem to think it's "cheating" or "fake muscle" and that we just pin ourselves and sit on the couch eating donuts, but I don't let that bullshit get to me.
I wouldnt recommend gear unless you're very devoted to lifting. It's very much a life style choice and not something you just decide to do all of a sudden. In terms of girls, being natty and just being lean will be just fine for girls tbh. I imagine a lot of girls are turned off by massive guys who are lean af/vascular.
Also, I'm not on "a ton of gear" by any means. I'm not going to claim natty but I'm not on insane dosages haha. I'm nowhere near the size to warrant that, yet.
For some reason, gear discussions always bring out the guys who think gear makes your heart explode. It’s sour grapes because they’re scared of needles.
I disagree with the "only take if devoted" part. Test alone makes life way easier (not only in the gym) and you don't need insane doses to have amazing advantages.
Still, not something you should do without research.
thanks for the response. I'm not dedicated to the gym enough to warrant going on roids but I'm also close to the point when even in button downs it looks like I lift so think I'm good for how much I like to lift. Still have a year to graduation so gonna try to get the best lifts I can by then
I'm not trying to be a dick.....I've thought about gear many times but decided not to do it. In my experience girls like dudes that are big and muscular for a reason....a lumberjack....a football player......an MMA dude.....you get the drift.
When you're on gear for nothing more than aesthetics, it turns a ton of women off no matter how good you look.
It's hilarious to me to watch the gear dudes in the gym.....I lift for strength...Leangains RPT style....I'm 45 years old and I hit a steady diet of deads, Incline, Standing Barbell Press' and Squats....If a girl was to watch me in the gym, they would see me moving some weight that they couldn't hope to approach.... The guys on steroids in my gym? Set after set of isolation exercises that most women could do. Not attractive.
How much % BF do you have?
I'd estimate 14-15% at most. My fat storage genetics are very unfortunate and I store a majority of my fat in my abs. Bright side is my face is pretty lean looking and my arms look pretty decent.
If you "hate bar atmosphere" you are just a little bitch who isn't confident and is afraid of people.
or bars are boring and become a waste of time.
I hate certain types of bars, but if you’re wanting to get laid, the place where you would enjoy a decent cocktail or craft beer alone probably isn’t going to be the right spot to pick up chicks. If I need to empty my balls that badly, I make of the sacrifice of going to shit bars that are full of fanny.
True. I get matched a lot (average looking dude), never with the really hot girls...usually plain janes. Tinder is a validation tool for women, most just enjoy the attention and male validation. It’s like porn for women. It’s a time sink. I still have the app, but my new rule is to only look at it once a week for 10 minutes, the girls who wanna fuck you usually message first.
Lie. I cold approach all the time and its insanely hard. inb4 "Increase SMV dude". I'm a 6'2'' ripped millionaire (not even fucking kidding, have posted pic proofs before), so no, it is not because of "low SMV".
Maybe its a vibe thing? IF your underlying mindset is "my SMV is so high F-all", girls might pick up on that. In day game, it helps to come across almost overly relate-able and normal- because the vast majority of guys who holler at a girl during the day are anything but (homeless, drunks, weirdos). You can still turn her on by looking sharp, clean, being a little witty, etc- but the foundation needs to be calm and relate-able. This is the biggest difference between day and night game, where you need to stand out quickly or she will get bored and move on.
Good point. You have to seem reasonable.
Reasonable as in “you caught my eye and I just had to come and hit on you” vs. “wassup bitch I’m a millionaire, maybe if you’re lucky I’ll bestow you the chance to fuck me.”
Meh, no matter who you are, you’re going to get rejected sometimes. Not every man is a match for every woman. I’d also guess that excessive confidence can give an impression of excessive entitlement, which can be unattractive. Many really, really (if not below) average guys can score with amazingly hot chicks because when approaching they can approach it like they have nothing to lose. In your case, I’d suggest forgetting about your advantages and approach like you wouldn’t care if you was rejected. I’m not saying that you should be too nice, but relax so that a relatively simple task doesn’t feel so hard.
but he was saying be good looking enough to actually get tinder matches with girls you wanna fuck
it is not a bad idea.. why to lose time outside gaming stupid chicks when you can fuck using tinder..?
Tinder is the fast food option.
well.. 80% of men would be VERY HAPPY if tinder was like a fast food for then but in reality they are fucking starving and are totally ignored on tinder you know...
I probably count among that 80% but either way, I can simply do better than Tinder in terms of both quantity and quality by getting out and about in real life. Put the apps down, get to the bar.
The past like 8 chicks I've asked out in public have boyfriends. And tinder only matches me with ugly chicks. I think it's time for a proper fashion shoot (my tinder pics need an upgrade).
They may or may not have boyfriends, you have to admit saying so was a gentle way of saying no.
He's obviously not average and dorky or he wouldn't be getting matches in the first places. Some just get shut down before they even try,blanked, flaked on
A lot of men don't get that you have to be in the top 20%, in terms of looks, to be considered above average by women
I totally agree. Back when I was 240 at 6’2 I dressed well, had decent cologne, and had extremely white teeth and used my personality, whit, and a little banter and still pulled some decent females from just going to my local bar.
I found that I could get better looking woman that would normally swipe left in the app, but would gush in real life.
I'd say just by having a good physique and decent style you're in the top 20%. (prob closer to top 10%, even if your face is ugly given you got some game)
Nobody gives a shit about "decent style". Physique depends a lot on genetics.
Well yeah, being in the top 20% would be considered above average looking.
My point is that the top 20 to 50% isn't considered above average.
Maybe he just doesn't have that big standards? Or maybe he just took his shot with 1/100 women that swiped right on him. Maybe he's got fun photos that make women more interested?
The two rules of Tinder
Rule 1: Be attractive
Rule 2: Don't be ugly
That was just a running joke from the Tinder sub.
The joke actually predates Tinder by a lot but yea they say this a shitload
I get several tinder matches but few ever reply back. The one time a girl replied back we set up a date and had coffee. My face is handsome but I'm short and chubby, but even regardless of that the conversation completely fell flat. I didn't know what to say, we kept ping ponging about our college career and I was anxious to end the disaster of a date. My first one though, glad I did it.
What are you supposed to say???
I struggle with this myself. It's hard to get the conversation flowing if you're nervous or awkward.
Step 1: Smile. Smiling makes you happy and you'll relax. Even if it's awkward smile. She may even smile too.
Step 2: Talk about common interests. Especially if it's something you're passionate about. For me, my biggest passion right now is Hypnosis. That's hard to talk about because it's scary to some people. But when I discuss taking a class in Hypnotherapy it makes it sound more professional and less scary.
Step 3: Let her talk about herself. She WANTS to talk about herself. Don't just bombard her with questions but expand on something she said. "Oh you like Country Music? What kind? Like what artists do you like?" etc
Step 4: The hardest thing for me to remember in the moment is to keep things light and not serious. It's not life or death. But if you're teasing her (I usually will wait for her to say something silly and call her a blonde even if she's not. Then make a joke about her dying her hair {taking a moment to reach out and touch her hair a little, thus making her comfortable with my contact.} And hell if the date bombs so what. You'll be ok. You'll still go to the gym and be able to lift like before, still be able to find other girls, etc.
Hope that helps.
Very nice attitude you got I like it.
Learn astrology, it's bogus bullshit, but girls eat it up. It's something to talk about that isn't a male dominated interest like cars, guns, gadgets, electronics, sports, etc. I use it as a reason to opine that sex between us would be wild and crazy because of our signs... or make her justify herself because she's supposedly incompatible.
at the same time, do you want a girl that believes in astrology? That's just so low intellect
want a girl who...
I "want" a girl who is hot and fun to have sex with. Anything else is a bonus.
I have noticed that fun to have sex with is not equal to great fucking fucking so how fun..? like you laugh a lot during it?
Wouldn’t instantly assume low intellect like that.. some just find it fascinating and take it with a grain of salt.
Almost all women i have talked to know a fair amount about astrology. They eat that shit up. Its an easy way to get to the prospect of sex. Im a taurus and your a female cancer, this random website says that together we will have amazing sex, lets see if its true.
What’s your opinion of body language reading in this vein?
Ballsier approach, but on the flip side you don’t have to learn astrology. (Though I want to pick that up now)
That knowledge is powerful and she could use it against you depending on how smart she is.
I'd recommend palm reading. Not only is it more interesting as you get to tell her about herself, but it's a perfect excuse for hands-on action.
When you don't know what to say, ask them something about them, and then at least fake listening. Anything at all. You can't do it wrong, they love it.
"I'm looking for new hobbies/books/movies/music. What do you recommend?"
You could google "fun date questions" for suggestions to avoid the whole interview-esque questions.
Next date, don't do coffee. Do an activity (bowling, pool, or just going out for a walk).
This as fuck. Been a comptetitive weightlifter for most of the 30 years I've been alive. I look like it too. Unless you're black or a Calvin Klein model, good luck. You can have a good job, be down to earth, not picky nice, responsible, a good body and still get shot the fuck down. The standards are arbitrary as fuck.
That doesn't sound like someone people would want to have casual sex with. It sounds like a long-term relationship prospect, so standards will be waaaay higher.
Like, what is your ideal casual hookup like? A trainwreck who won't be clingy and will be out of your life for good in 3 weeks may not be classy but it seems safe. Good job, down to earth, responsible ... that's just a step away from the 39 year old woman telling you her plans for a perfect wedding and where she is in her cycle.
Don't listen to much to the self-improvement bros jerking each other off over how great a 5x5 workout is. One of the most important things on a first date is making it seem the woman isn't committing to a long-term relationship because those are scary.
Nobody gives a fuck if you lift if your face is not hot as fuck or you are bald
Why not meet girls doing day game or doing night game at the bar. The quality is much better and you can tell right away if you have chemistry
I do. I deleted tinder two years ago. I almost exclusively go organic. I don't drink often so, I try with girls within my "sphere" of hobbies. It's the same thing. The shit is, like I said, entirely arbitrary. Even supposedly educated girls who aren't superficial do this kind of stuff.
It's a common trend I'm seeing with men my age, in my area. We all ended up doing pretty well in life out of having good morals and work ethic. Just down to earth and not too pushy in one way or the other. Not GQ models, but if average put forth consistent effort.
Somehow that is seen as the absolute worst thing ever. It's like, every girl thinks they deserve [insert some male celebrity that women gawk over her].
Where do you live? I understand you might not want to get specific in an online forum. But I moved from a place with a high male to female ratio, to a place with a higher female to male ratio, in the last couple of years, and I noticed a difference in just how picky women are. Most of the Western half of the US is pretty tough, compared with the Eastern US, Europe (outside of the UK), or Asia / Latin America. Of course within those larger regions there are micro locations that are better and worse (Vegas is good and Toronto is bad, for example), but that's a general picture.
Midwest. Dating here in general is pretty shitty. I got off dating sites for the very reason you said. Objectively, from a psychological stand point, I feel healthier. Even if volume of women I meet has decreased, I can at least say that I don't waste nearly as much time on social media. That has translated to progress in every other area of life. The women aspect however hasn't gotten better. When I go over seas to Eastern Europe or anywhere in Asia, I see people in general have a nicer temperment. They aren't always in competition for something. The women then are a lot more agreeable, more self-aware of their position in the universe, if that makes sense.
Because most day game girls reject guys who do that. I have done 800 approaches and have 1 lay.
How are you approaching girls during the day?
Go direct during day game. Don't bs around with going indirect or asking for directions. Compliment them, chat very briefly, get # and bounce.
Any woman I like on street or in a shop or wherever I find the dumbest reason to talk to her like "Hey, nice shoes", "Hey, what is the time?" "Hey, are you from faculty of economics?" "Hey, I've seen you, do you live around here?" Literally like that.
I never compliment them, because TRP said not to.
All except compliments I do. But they so often ghost me.
I honestly wish this guy would ask me to spot his bench PR just so I stare him down while he chokes under two plates after reading this post.
You must be unhappy and weird to even write something like that on the internet. Maybe go hug your mom and dad and tell them you love them straight in the eyes. It will do you good brother.
Will that make ignorant people disappear out of my life?
That username, that response.. go join a kickboxing/bjj gym and spar with someone
OP you're being dishonest. It's either you are lying about your looks (downplaying them) or you're lying about the girls looks.
Doubt you're matching with girls out of your league on tinder. It doesn't work that way
Yeah, this post is a load of shit.
100% agree
“Every single party/tinder date has led to fucking”...”I’m pretty average and dorky”
If it were that easy, over half the world would be drowning in pussy.
Who’s upvoting this post?
When I was younger I thought these fuckin magical set of circumstances had to be in place for sex to happen. And if one thing went wrong it was over. I had this get together one night and this chick Kelsey came over. Were sitting in the kitchen and she standing next to me and I can feel her staring at me. She gives me the most blatant fuck me eyes and me in all my genius look at her and say "what "? Her pussy dried up so fast I kid u not she literally got picked up by some tool on a street bike 10 minutes later.
she was definitely relationship wife material :D
I dont know what u mean but she was the same as any girl . Sucks cock/ takes it in the bunghole and loves riding with Chad on his ninja. All wives past and present like these things.
Groundbreaking news: tinder is used for hooking up
Basically it was Richard Feyman (famous physicist) technique. He would just ask the girl if she wanted sex. She often said yes. Mind you this was in the 50's, you needed big balls to ask such questions back then.
Also if she matched you in tinder your dick is 80% inside her. You only need to not fuck it up.
Interesting. You have a source for this? I've honestly never met a physicist who isnt blue pilled as fuck. Witty, sharp and can counter your bullshit verbally, yes; but beta inside
I've met a couple of post-doc physicist that lift like crazy. One of them even did gear in his youth and it was a beast. Not blue-pilled at all.
Yeah. Just like Disney movies with happy endings and shit.
Not looking at the party dates for a moment, we are talking Tinder. The threshold for sex really isn't that high.
You must not be as dorky or ugly as you think, which is misleading.. Or maybe you're tall. I can't even get a match on tinder that's not a huge fatty
yes.. just be more than 6 foot and you can fuck every hot girl.. OMG...
Well then I must be chopped fucking liver, because I'm 28, good salary, 6'2 200lbs and relatively lean, very personable, nice looking and well-groomed, and NONE of my recent dates have even been close to sex. These girls are even afraid to kiss at the end of the night. I'd like to know where you live.
Probably NY, where do you live?
Did you escalate? Was there any sexual tension?
What are the real reasons for posts like this:
(This really happened)™
People like OP needs to practice they lying and hypocritical skills on somebody so they start writing this shit online, creating a new version of their life where they are successful
They are feminists in disguise trying to promote feel-good feelings
Sorry for venting, I am legitimately curious though because I can't stand white lies, no matter how good the intentions, it is not a incredible story, just implausible and there are so many like this that it gets tiring.
This. MGTOW is FILLED with LARP
I am glad I am not the only "troll, incel, permavirgin, blackpilled loser who has never seen a Holy Vagina in real life" here. /s
Jokes aside, it really gets tiring of living in this Dystopian Feminazi Civilization where everything a man does is despicable and everything a woman does is worthy of infinite praise.
Guys it is a real problem, it is getting very hard to find a decent woman to start a family.
I know this because I see many men better than me, richer than me, housetrained better than me that have problems finding a mate, and ... it really scares me.
This Feminazi thing is reaching a tipping point.
It's starting to get glaringly noticeable, yet the abundance of distraction machines (smartphones, VR, video games, porn) keeps everyone comfortably numb.
I hear my roommates and their friends (who are 20, im 24) talk about how babies are gross and how dogs are awesome. Part of me thinks it's because I'm within earshot and they think (due to popular culture/netflix) that somehow impresses me.
I'm not even sure why any guy would want to start a family in this era. Do you really want all the extra responsibility and exhaustion that is children plus dealing with the same moody pussy for 50 years? Really? That's the goal?
Getting older, friends settling down, you start thinking about it, even though I agree with you.
In my opinion you can easily pull girls if either:
Your looks is in top 20%
Your game is in top 20%
Your status is in top 20%
And ofc any combination of above. Maybe there are synergies between these attributes but I would say that they are negligible in most cases. If you are average in all 3 (i.e. not in top 20%) you will have hard time.
I don't think you can get by with game alone on Tinder, since you need to actually match with women before you can talk to them. Thus, they'll have decided what they think of your looks (and maybe your status too) before they even see your game.
With Tinder you are right.
If you have looks you use Tinder.
If you have game you use cold approaches.
If you have status you use social circles.
Your on tinder of course you can get laid that’s all tinders for .
Collage age. Go out and play all the pussy you can. I look back and laugh at all the fun I had. A few things to remember, one don't catch feelings and two protect your dick.
Man. Makes me think about missed opportunities. Good thing I'm 19... monk mode for 2 years, go back to college at 21/22... I'll be swimming in poon
I did that. Turning 21 in two days and I'm back in college after a gap year working in another country.
It wasn't complete monk mode because I did have two ONS, but it mostly was. However, I have to warn you, it's not that easy as you might think. I did not magically become Chad and I am certainly not banging hot girls just because of spending that time focused on myself.
Chances are at first you will fuck up. Do not worry. After so much time without talking to girls it's going to be a little bit weird and probably awkward for you. It might cost you some good opportunities. You have to push through that, it will get better. Also going back to "normal" college life will not be easy if you spend that time doing something different. College is not easy, and chances are you will have to get used to study again after spending so much time not doing it. It's a skill, and you lose it with time. That combined with the fact that it is a huge responsibility involving 4 years of your life and quite a bit of money will probably stress you out.
Be ready for all this and do what you have to do to push through it. Once you actually get used to all this the time spent working on yourself will start showing and then it will be amazing.
You gained muscle during your monk mode I imagine?
Not as much as I wanted, but I did drop 20lb that made quite a bit of a difference.
Omg It has also happened to me as well in the last 5 months since my LTR ended. I have some problems with the logistics, but I went with a date with a girl I just met 2 weeks ago, we texted, flirted whatever. Went out, drank some shots, went to her home, fucked her and thats it. LOL. She is 20 I am 26.
I also never thought it was that easy, and of course lifting like your life depends on it, wearing contact lenses and keeping your clothes in check. TRP has saved my life.
Contacts game is real tho, been using it for while also. Haha
fo real. I have been an specs wearer my whole life I have never felt confident enough wearing eyeglasses (I always tried to detach myself from the intellectual vibe they exude.
By wearing contacts I feel in my own skin. It is awesome. It is my first week wearing them actually and it is hard as fuck to put them on. At least for me.
Putting them on for me for the first time it took each eye about 45 minutes. Now i can stick them in in within a minute you'll get used to it. But for the specs thingy, Myself i use that intellectual vibe when i'm going to school or meetings. And when i do some clubbing and nightgame i prefer contacts obviously.
use both tools to your advantage bro, if you want to go another step, try coloured contacts. It works really really good on woman. Especially a colour combination you don't see very much. ( i'm haf white and haf black) i use green contacts and some of my friends even pick up grey and blue instead of their original brown eyes. Works everytime! hahah
yea for me as well 45 fucking minutes. It toook a long time! I dont have time for practicing it putting them inthe morning before work or the gym so somedays I just wear my regular eyeglasses.
Yea of coursee I would like to swap my contacts with my eyeglasses for intellectual vibe your atalking about.
However, I will start wearing braces very soon, So I definitely NEED to get rid of eyeglasses ASAP. As soon as I master wearing contacts I will get braces, because you know... fuck wearing both at the same time.
Yea colored lenses would be the next step for clubbing and whatnot. I am latin, so girls dig clear eyes on brown tanned skin.
Yeah bro! My best friend has latin roots and uses dem grey contacts, he pulls every freakin time. Where are you from ?
There is no party of your story where you asked her to have sex. Your title says it but your story says she initiates sex with you. Your results look good and not being critical...just sayin.
As men, we're taught from an early age that sex is taboo. That sex is meant as reward for being virtuous and taking care of a woman. That in order for a man to receive sex, he must prove himself. This is the bullshit that makes men weak and nervous.
Sex is nothing. It's as mundane as drinking and eating
Well community pussy IS for everyone...
As my paw paw taught me...."a closed mouf don't get fed, speak up boi"
Been true for the past 39 yrs...
Lemme guess you're six two? That's the first filter on tinder. Once you pass that impossible test your odds are much better. Like diversity hires.
Always maintain your sexuality on the front end.
It's not that you're "just asking" ... you are being forward and upfront with your intentions to fuck. That is the key.
Women are natural followers, and will respond if you are confident and take the lead.
Does anyone ever fear of accidentally getting someone pregnant. I always use a condom and check the security of it with a water test after bust still. That thought alone freezes up the pep in my step
So you went from total newbie to god-like first date pull ratio.
Nobody has sex with "every single tinder date", not even close if the meet up is somewhere in public.
There should be a flair called "Chad Fantasy" for this kind of posts which provide no honest value.
Bro, you're an idiot. She liked you on tinder, why do you need to explain she wants to fuck you? she liked you on tinder
If you're getting laid after every tinder date or every party you go to, you are either reasonably attractive or the girls you're fucking aren't.
theres no way you are average if you are getting tinder matches, you're top 20 %
Is it really this hard for most guys to get matches?
Female breeding mechanics and optimization of said breeding mechanics.
It’s behavior control for females and gambling for men.
Depending on many factors, yes. For instance, I live in a small town, trust me matches are very rare, regardless if I'm in the 20% or not.
It's like one of the core principals of sales, "never be afraid to ask for the sale." If you feel like she's interested in you just go for it. It takes balls, and women appreciate that. Worst case scenario she rejects you and is a bitch about it, whatever, her loss.
i always thought i was an " average looking dude." but seeing as how they get matches and i don't...
kind of gets me down lol
Everyone says Tinder is only for hooking up: while you get a nice number of matches, I've made an account with model pics- and chicks still ignore, go cold and block you (this was going fairly direct- trying to get to come over without explicitly mentioning sex by around the 5th message the latest). I can't imagine what it's like for average-looking guys and/or guys with no game.
While I've had chicks come over fresh direct and make it easy- there have even been girls who come straight over, nothing happens and you never see them again. Many women on are on these apps for validation.
Now that you know it's easy, do the opposite. Idk what the obsession with easy sex is, it's no fun when you get it too fast.
Girls give up sex easily because they want commitment from a high value man and they think giving up sex is their one way ticket.
High value men, however, don't have to give up sex or commitment easily and can afford to string the girl along. She doesn't want to lose you. After all, a high value man is more rare than a beautiful woman, so you've got more supply than she does.
Withhold sex from her. When you're doing foreplay with her, just look at her, say "next time baby," and roll over to your side and read a book. It'll drive bitches crazy and she'll text you 'are u just not attracted to me/am i not hot enough?" (this happened to me. they dont get mad at you. they feel insecure about themselves)
And put her in the friendzone.
When you finally do fuck her, the sex will be so much better than if you had just fucked her on your first night/opportunity.
Your self-control and making her feel insecure will make you stand out from every other guy who just tries to get in her pants ASAP.
Delayed gratification + teasing at work.
'This entire time all i had to do was just ask' as opposed to what? Dumb ass mind tricks... Well durrrrrr OF COURSE!! Its what normal men do
For the plates I've got right now, I literally just told them we're gonna go chill at their dorms after we're done with whatever it is we're doing (never my dorm since roommate is ALWAYS present.) It's straightforward, and you can test to see if they're down to put out already or not.
most of the time all you need to do is just grow a big pair of balls.
Yeah, that's kind of what Tinder is for man. No real revelation here.
Well, you can't be that average and dorky if you get matches on Tinder mate...
I'm curious, was your relationship fizzling out the thing that brought you to theRedPill?
I thought you weren't supposed to ask the question but make it a statement ?
Uh, it's a little more complicated than just asking... but there often does come a time where a cool, uncaring demeanor is well supplemented with out and out asking.
I had this one chick i was texting about coming to her place. I was dropping really obvious hints but she kept coming back at me with vague answers. Finally I just said "what's your address so I can come over" and she just sent it.
Actually I have to say this may have more to do with a person individual look factor. For an easy example if your over 6ft a casual hook up maybe alot easy for you. That said one if the biggest redpill eye openers for me was how much sex women seem to have. When I was a virgin until 18-19 by then ever girl I knew had sealed the deal years ago.
haha tinder - the laughing at everything works to get them in the mood though
Don't downplay yourself by pedastilising women in leagues.
Remember you have the Penis, you are the prize.
It’s probably because you’re connecting strongly with these women, making intimacy easier. I understand that sex is the highest point of intimacy with a girl, with all previous connection (eg talking, eye contact, laughing, touching) being moments on the “intimacy spectrum”. I think this is because you were in a relationship for so long you have good “connection skills” which makes intimacy more natural.
I think most guys fuck up because they have a “sex as goal” mindset from the outset, creating awkwardness and pressure on both parties. If you have a “connection” as goal mindset you may find that sex unfolds in a natural way, with ease. It also removes the pressure to perform.
Definitely women don't reward elegant, polite men.
Uh Tinder = sex and bumble = more serious relationship? i think everybody knows this by now
Yep that can be all it takes. So true biggest battle is the one in your head.
in before he is tall with a good head of hair.
try to be me : short and bald, active in PUA since 2009 and zero results.
online dating went to shit for the average guy after 2009
Its sad but true. I was blue pilled for a long time but im 6'1 with dark hair and blue eyes and my lay count was somethinng like 11 before i got into game or rp. Diagnosed social anxiety aswell. Looks do a lot. Its a red pill too.
Are you putting yr self out there
I'm short and bald and enjoyed moderate success
Apparently he is. I took over half an hour typing up a long post trying to help, but then I thought of checking his post history. Apparently /u/Ruggero88 has his head shaved (so none of that funky combover shit), is now in good shape and has done thousands of cold approaches. Those led to 80 numbers and zero dates.
He also has friends, so at the very least, he can socialise with people.
Rug, are you very nervous when talking to people? Do you get in your head a lot and feel like you're saying the wrong things when you're talking to girls, but when you're with your friends, you're more relaxed, confident or funny? If you answer yes to these questions, then you should probably try to get used just being around girls without even thinking about sex. Just try to relax and have a conversation going.
On the other hand, if you answer No, then perhaps you're coming across as a bit odd or creepy without realising it. You've come a very long way already, so please don't let that get you down, because the good news is you can learn social skills. Maybe you should spend more time in groups of both men and women, and do so without putting too much pressure on yourself to be "alpha" or whatever.
You've been getting so many Ls and you really need some wins. Start small. Join some meetup groups for things that interest you. Participate in group sports. Anything where you'll be socialising with people around a common interest. Try to branch out a bit. Watch how people interact. Often, just listening and nodding at the right times is going to be enough for people to find you nice.
You're sticking yourself in a negative cycle, so break that cycle. Get a win, any win. Start small. And for the love of god, stay away from those incel subs and those negative spaces. NOT going to help.
Another thing. What do you dress like? Watch some inspiration albums on MFA, try out clothes and find a style that suits you. Basic Bastard is a good place to start, hard to go wrong with that one. If your clothes fit you, you'll look a hell of a lot better than most people. If you're very slim, you can get away with wearing more feminine boots with a small heel.
Are you getting enough sleep? Do you sleep and wake at regular times? Do you meditate?
I don't know what you do in life, but you have got to make sure you're deriving a sense of self-worth from a source that's NOT your sex life or how women view you. It could be your job or a hobby, doesn't matter. If you don't have that, make it your priority.
But yeah, all things being equal, shorter guys who are bald will have it harder. But luckily, that's just two things you can't change. Everything else? You can!
Stop being so harsh on yourself, be nice to yourself. Only you can get you out of this and you've already come a long way.
Kudos to /u/theredcandy for an awesome write-up and all solid advice...
My age may be showing but I will share this; I was on MASF forums where all the originals were posting before they started their own businesses...
It can be a challenge to approach, hold a convo, escalate -
I field tested the methods of the successful ones there and found tons of inspiration from MrSexy4uNYC and ijjjji...see what works for your personality!
I'll leave the post there for posterity, and I really hope OP doesn't give up, but I don't know. It's not the first time he's gotten advice. Maybe he needs therapy/someone to help him out IRL.
No idea who these people are, but were Pook, Zan Perrion and Owen Cook/RSDTyler not posting on these boards?
MAnianHigh, Neil Strauss/CPowles/Style, Tyler/Owen Cook, Mystery/Eric Von ?, Ross Jeffries (everyone picked on him!)...each one with a unique process and perspective
There's too many to mention...While some made a business out of it, it was built on a huge collaborative effort and the breakthru's were mind blowing, in all seriousness. Things that I still use in social situations that are counter intuitive but work every time!
The internet archive has their comment logs from the site.
http://www.fastseduction.com/archives-2/
You forgot that you need to be tall, masculine and with wide shoulders.
Nothing is stopping you from being masculine and confident. You aren't putting yourself out there.
if you are under 5'9 yuo are pretty much fucked
Not really. Looks help, but what about rsdtyler & max, neil strauss
No. I'm 5'6, over 40, balding, I can still pull girls. Not like I could when I was 25 with a full head of hair. But I was 5'6" then too.
Short has shit to do with getting most girls, if you own that shit.
"I don't date/fuck short guys." - 'We're both the same height laying down.'
You comment like this all the time. Deal with it and stop being such a pussy. Also, shitty PUA tricks can't cover up your massive lack of self-confidence.
This is one girl. I’m not saying you’re wrong but at the same time fuck at least a few more.
I feel like I'm an 8/10 as far as attractiveness goes. Every time i thought to myself, "damn, I want that girl" ive ended up sleeping with her. I've probably slept with 100 women at this point and that's with several years of being faithful. Maybe being 6'1" helps but I think its the confidence that gets them. At first I act like I don't notice them, then they'll try to work for your approval. On the internet its a different story, you basically just tell them how you feel. Not in a lovey dovey way and not in a creepy sex pervert way though.
Fucking LARP fag you named yourself after call of duty you are so full of shit you mouth breathing autist
I didn't name myself that. I spent 5 years in prison and joined the universal Aryan brotherhood. That was my prison name cause everyone that came out of the cell after a fight with me had 2 black eyes (opticals). But I'm sure you are a 250 lbs fat ass 30 year old virgin so enjoy your sad life
I once opened the door for a lady in a high rise building I use to work in. When she thanked me (with eye contact), I calmly asked her if she wanted to have a Summer Fling. She lit up like a Christmas Tree with an astounding “yes!” (I had seen her in the building often).
After I Man handled her ass like a champion. She asked “why in the fuck don’t men just go for it” like I did. She just happened to have “lost her husband to some bimbo” and needed someone to pull on her panties a bit.
Step it up gents. All she can do is say, yay or nay!
Exactly. This "game" shit doesn't worth it.