If you find yourself arguing with women, you are a weak target.

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May 25, 2018

Men and women are DIFFERENT.

This seems like such a forehead slappingly obvious statement.

Here's the problem.... When we hold men to the female metric of femininity, we fail.

No shit, right?

But that's a BAD THING in the eye of women... Why can't my man cry with me about that sad movie? Why can't he express his feelings? Why are you so emotionally unavailable? Your masculinity is so toxic!

All trying to slot you into that platonic best girlfriend box. We're men. MEN.

Women don't understand that if we're weak enough to bend over and appease you by becoming that big forever absorbent expanding emotional tampon, then our value as a man has diminished because we've decided the the rules we'll live our lives by are a women's rules, which by definition makes us less of a man.

Other foot - when we try to hold women to the masculine rules of being a man, they fail.

Every guy reading this knows there is a line. If you talk shit or go out on a limb or over this line, you KNOW you're going to get the shit kicked out of you. It's different for every guy, but every guy has a line. It's the underlying basis for mutual respect and largely subtextual, but you know at some point if you continue to be an asshole you're going to get, and deserve, a punch in the mouth. Which is why big scary motherfuckers tend to garner more automatic respect and deference... you want a flailing 120lb goth boy angry, or a 240lb MMA motherfucker with cauliflower ears pissed at you?

You think the average bluehair fat feminist cunt even understands there's a line?

No, she hides behind her sex when shit gets real. You can't hit a girl!!!

You've been screaming about equal treatment for years, bitch.. here's to equality...

But you can't do that. You are in actuality hitting a girl. A deluded, hypocritical shell of a female, but when it comes down to it, she's just a girl, and you're a man. She's just LARPing equality to men, swinging her foam sword.

Women, primarily those who identify as feminists/strong independent womyn, love this illusion of control and mastery. It appeases their need to feel validated, strong and "right". Toxic femininity.

So, they don't give a shit about the opinions of a beta male who won't stand up for themselves and just rolls over - there's no fun nor "win" in that. No challenge.

An alpha will not even put up with her shit and refuse to engage or acknowledge her point of view or even that she has any bearing on the conversation whatsoever. There's no "win" there either. Won't even play the game.

She wants a weak target. Something that pushes back a little, she's going to try discredit you and shut you down, thereby "winning over a man" in her mind.

Don't be a weak target.

Stop arguing with women.

Stop giving a shit.

Men and women are NOT equal.

There is NO equality, the sexes operate under different sets of rules.

There is a male spectrum, and a female spectrum. We don't fit on the same graph.

They way it always was.

Post Information
Title If you find yourself arguing with women, you are a weak target.
Author RogerNorvell
Upvotes 790
Comments 170
Date 25 May 2018 10:52 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/50474
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/8m0tkh/if_you_find_yourself_arguing_with_women_you_are_a/
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[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorCopperFox3c215 points216 points  (16 children) | Copy

It can also be said that the only man who argues with a woman is a man who doesn't understand women.

Women argue largely based on their feelings, so the only way to "win" an argument with a woman is to convince her she doesn't feel the way she does. That is obviously a fool's errand, and a man who understands women knows to avoid it.

[–]Sparky159202 points203 points  (7 children) | Copy

When a girl confronts you about her feelings, the best course of action (from my experience) is to deflect her anger onto something else. Example:

My LTR was mad that I had "kicked her out of my car". What actually happened was that she went to bed at midnight, woke up at 5:30am, and was busy doing makeup and hair for a wedding for several people. We got to her place at around 9:30pm, fucked in my car, and around 11pm I told her to get out because I needed to go home. She slammed my car door shut and left in a huff. When she confronted me about it, I told her "You were mad, but you weren't mad at me. You were mad about x,y,z, and the wedding, but not at me. Despite this, you took it out on me. You can be mad, but you took it out on me despite me having nothing to do with it. Don't do that again." She apologized, we had sex, all was good

You validate her feelings, but invalidate her ability to take it out on you. You establish your boundaries and self-respect without losing frame

[–]Thynome23 points24 points  (0 children) | Copy

Damn I need to remember this

[–]_the_shape_3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

You validate her feelings, but invalidate her ability to take it out on you. You establish your boundaries and self-respect without losing frame

Great point, and you allow her to do the emotional song-and-dance she's just dying to do.

A woman and bottled emotions is the recipe for a Molotov cocktail of rage.

[–]Sparky1590 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Exactly. Think of it if it like a controlled or contained explosion

[–]Republic_of_Ash10 points11 points  (3 children) | Copy

Am I wrong in thinking it's because you made her feel like a slut?

After all, she is your LTR.

[–]Sparky15928 points29 points  (2 children) | Copy

That very well could have been it, who knows. However, the key point was that her anger was validated, but not the reason. The reason itself was deflected. By doing so, you don’t lose frame, but she gets to feel like her anger was justified (but not how she originally thought)

[–]MundaneEnvironment 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

you sound like a real treat to date

[–]majaka12345 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

You sound jealous you missed out on steamy car sex.

[–]1Entropy-73 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is so, fucking, true. Hence, my motto to just walk away. Their feelings will change ten minutes later and you can get on with things within 24 hours.

[–]Neutral_User_Name5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

the only way to "win" an argument with a woman is to convince her she doesn't feel the way she does

it already was in bold, but it deserves a mention ;-)

[–]Diedmuda256 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy

So would you just straight up ignore her or what?

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorCopperFox3c27 points28 points  (0 children) | Copy

Typically I use Amused Mastery ... just start playfully teasing them. They might be pissy at first but eventually they'll start giggling. Remember, a woman wants to feel the full range of emotions, give her a rollercoaster.

Sometimes though if they are being super irritable I just ignore them, or "pressure flip" the situation. Put the onus on her (Sparky gives a good example of this above). Various strategies you can employ, but straight up arguing with a woman is not one of them.

[–]wadsworthsucks11 points12 points  (2 children) | Copy

I do that with my current gf. Hell, even this morning, while I was asleep, she messaged me on FB to tell me how horny she was. And when I woke up, I told her that I was 'dreaming about that pussy all night'. She responded by saying all I ever talk about is sex 24/7, and blah blah. I told her that she's silly for telling me that when she brought it up first. She got mad and said she was going to sleep. I said "nite". An hour ago, she messaged saying she's sorry and that she hates being mad at her "Pooh Bear". See? I avoided conflict, and she apologized.

Why the downvotes? Am I lying? do you not agree with this for a specific reason? Would love to know.

[–]magx0112 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

Relationships are so retarded.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

So the only way to not lose to a woman with a different opinion is to next her?

[–]rpsheepdog122 points123 points  (63 children) | Copy

A few days back there was a pretty good thread on here about hitting a woman, and how it relates to her ultimately winning because as a male, if you hit a woman you have resulted to your last resort as conflict resolution.

[–]1scissor_me_timbers0064 points65 points  (39 children) | Copy

I think the underlying reason why you lose if you hit a woman is still just frame. It’s a universally agreed upon frame in our society that you don’t hit a woman. No guy’s individual frame is strong enough to supersede that. There might be the occasional outlier in the ghetto somewhere, where chicks have very underclass sensibilities about relationships.

But in previous eras it was acceptable to give a woman an occasional slap, even in middle and upper class areas. So your individual frame wouldn’t be overridden by the societal frame back then. Nowadays she knows it’s an instant win if you touch her.

[–]Omnibrad24 points25 points  (6 children) | Copy

I think the underlying reason why you lose if you hit a woman is still just frame. It’s a universally agreed upon frame in our society that you don’t hit a woman.

It's also a universally agreed upon frame in our society that men marry women.

My frame is strong enough to supersede that. Many other guys here have strong enough frame to supersede that. You are just a chump if you believe this.

The reason it's not OK to hit a woman is because women just aren't worth the 2nd stage of conflict resolution which is an emotional argument. Hell, women are hardly worth the 1st stage of conflict resolution which is simply an exchange of words (giving your attention). Fists are the 3rd stage.

[–]1scissor_me_timbers009 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

No marriage is not a universally agreed upon frame. It is widely agreed upon but not universally, and increasingly less so. Ask public poll two questions:

Do you agree with the following?

Men must marry.

Men must not hit women.

Way closer to 100% response on the second question than the first.

[–]UncleChido2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

TIL there are 3 stages of conflict. Women are definitely not worth any. You don’t argue with your children and women are like your kids (except that you fuck them).

[–]jantexES8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy

Actually, in my 3rd world country, if you ask a married man this question: how are the "children"? You literally mean his children and wife.

[–]TheRealEtherion3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Haha that's nice. Where are you from? If I may ask...

[–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp9 points10 points  (25 children) | Copy

I think the underlying reason why you lose if you hit a woman is still just frame. It’s a universally agreed upon frame in our society that you don’t hit a woman.

Not that frame, not the frame of what society agreed upon. It's about your frame. It's about losing your temper, which is a form of losing your frame. She made you react, on top of that she made you react in the ultimate way, the physical violence.

I'm assuming we're talking about generic m-f interactions, not some black-fake-hair-singe-moms flailing their arms at you b/c you don't want to give her your food stamps.

[–]1scissor_me_timbers003 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

No this is what I’m disagreeing with. Because in the past it wasn’t considered a frame loss. Men were allowed to hit their wives within reason if she acted up too much, and it wasn’t considered frame loss.

Now there definitely could be a way in which you could lose your shit in a beta way and hit her, which she could then lose respect for you based on, even back in old times. But a slap is not always inherently frame loss by you. Nowadays it always is because the societal frame will always override. But back in the day frame could be maintained w some measure of physicality. Although again, you could also do it in a pathetic way.

[–]3LiveAFTSOV4 points5 points  (21 children) | Copy

Foolish. Physical violence isn't a loss of frame, it's an assertion of it.

You don't wanna enter my frame? Fine, I'll knock you out and drag you into it.

[–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp7 points8 points  (17 children) | Copy

  1. He who reacts less wins.

  2. The threat of violence is higher in social hierarchy then violence itself. In the first case your opponent acknowledges his inferiority and backs down, in the second you have to make him. Thus, respect is given (stronger) vs respect is taken (weaker).

  3. Context matters. If I AMOG you in front of your girl ("Cool haircut, are you a time traveler from 90s?") are you going to punch me?

[–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

"Cool haircut, are you a time traveler from 90s?"

"Yup, just came back in my delorean to fuck yo momma."

And then both my 19-yo HB8.9 and your 16-yo HB9.33 look at theirselves, say "ewww gross! those guys remember 90s! let's find some younger dudes"

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

“He who reacts less wins.”

This doesn’t mean anything. It’s pseudo intellectual word vomit.

[–]1AlfredKinsey0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I don't see this as trying to be intellectual. It's also too pithy to be word vomit.

It's just a true thing. It's a really powerful, albeit upsetting, truth about modern relationships: the one who cares the least has the upper hand. It's true of negotiations and other power dynamics, too.

[–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Go in the field and test this.

[–]3LiveAFTSOV-5 points-4 points  (12 children) | Copy

  1. Says who. The atomic bomb was a pretty big reaction, turned out well for the guys who got mad.

  2. True - which is why body builders look scary but they probably are not in reality.

  3. If you say that, and I knock you out, I win. My girl will see I am violent, will get turned on, and we will fuck like animals.

Or, i say watch your mouth. (My frame) You talk again, (your frame) and I punch you (my frame.)

Women love dominant guys. Not guys who play clown show "amused mastery, self amusement" games with random men who insult them.

[–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

The question was, are you going to punch me for one time AMOGing you immediately after I do it.

[–]3LiveAFTSOV-2 points-1 points  (4 children) | Copy

Yeah, then I'll call up my goons to finish the job

[–]whatnololyea1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

But we're in a civilized society, where hitting someone (and calling "goons" to finish the job) are penalized heavily by law.

Let's say you do hit u/JamesSkepp, these things could happen: (1) You'd get kicked out of the venue, and/or (2) u/JamesSkepp will file charges against you, in which case you reap the losing end.

A big reason why Napoleon fell was because he became reactive to Talleyrand when the former found out the latter conspired against him. Long story short, Napoleon lost popularity and the latter gained following because the former was then perceived as a hothead with chinks in his armor.

EDIT: To add, had Napoleon insulted a common man, he would have gotten away scot free, but because his target was of roughly close power in his society, he fell.

TLDR: Hitting someone only works when you have absolute power over the person you are hitting. Being in a civilized society means you most likely are not, unless you're a high profile man.

[–]3LiveAFTSOV-2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy

Wow, thank you. I decided to check my reddit inbox one last time before falling asleep and reading your comment gave me a real life chuckle. Seriously funny.

Alright man, you've been spared of the goons, for now.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

The atomic bomb was not a reaction. Jesus Christ you are ignorant. Go get your leg lengthening surgery and stfu about you know nothing about.

[–]3LiveAFTSOV1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Then what was it?

Or how bout this : the japs didn't react or falter after the first bomb, surely they should have won right?

Nope, got bombed again. So much for non reaction wins.

a superior counter argument would have been to bring up the civil rights movement but you choose to type a 0 value, 0 insight comment based on personal grievances.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

Ad 3. Yeah, but if You can't handle this text without using your fists that only mean that you have bigger butthurt than your LTR. And maybe after that you're would fuck like animals but as soon as the bigger opponent will be in front of you your fists will be not a argument.

If you want cut wooden leg in your desk you will use wood cutting machine or a saw?

[–]3LiveAFTSOV1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Who cares if you're butthurt?

Who cares if anyone thinks you are butthurt?

"Lol Umad UButthurt" is something said by online trolls because the real life consequence is violence. No one says "lolumad" IRL because of violence.

And if he's bigger? Use a gun.

Niggas spend their whole lives looking swole, just to get shot by a skinny nigga like me "

-Prince Evo, 2016

[–]HiggsBooze-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

Not really, no. In my experience, if you are overly aggressive in front of a woman, she'll interpret this as putting HER in harms way. Think paleo here - you don't have a firearm and if things don't go your way, you still have a chance of running away; women are shit at running almost as much as at fighting.

And aggressive dominant; obviously, dominant men sometimes have to resort to violence, but hypergamy is irrational instinct, that strives to achieve ideal - not natural - situation. In short - better appear a winner, than show her how much winning actually costs, let alone risk losing in front of her.

[–]1Entropy-70 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That doesn't fly in polite society.

The capability of violence has some cache.

The absolute coolest dude I ever met was the British shot put champion. He is the biggest human being I have ever met. His arms are bigger than your legs. His hands could grab your skull and crush it.

I am Canadian, so firearms are not a thing. The guy knew at least on a subconscious level, that nobody would ever fuck with him. . . .

And he was happy

[–]Njevil-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

I think it depends on the situation.

Edit: An elaboration could be that if the violence comes as a result of an emotional reaction, you loose your frame. If it comes as a result of showing dominance it isn't.

[–]3LiveAFTSOV2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Your edit is right- and is the difference between a women staying with an abusive man who beats her because he owns her, or leaving a guy who hits her then cries in apology

Edit : You should not beat women. That is wrong, and illegal.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You do understand that the appropriateness of hitting women is completely culturally determined, and was considered reasonable under certain circumstances in the west until like.... 40 years ago.

[–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

hitting women is completely culturally determined

It's enabling BP and betaness in men.

Whereas you see a well cultured gentlemen of victorian (or even first half of 20th century) era disciplining their women with light slaps to remind her of her place (aka. tradcon which is BP), I see legions of beta idiots who beat their women b/c she's not attracted to them. Since compliance, submissiveness stems from her being attracted they beta idiots being entitled BPs ("she's a woman she's supposed to be like that") don't understand they lack attraction and they are virtual leaders not actual ones.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

The reason that hitting a woman means you lose has nothing to do with frame. You lose because the police come and arrest you. It was commonplace for men to use physical intimidation to keep women in line in every human society in history before the modern west.

[–]1scissor_me_timbers000 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Yeah no shit that precisely confirms my point. The frame of society overrides your frame. The police get to invade.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Lol the “frame of society?” Are you just throwing out TRP buzz words?

[–]1scissor_me_timbers000 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

No. How do you not understand this? It’s a simple concept. Frame is not merely a concept for individuals. It’s interpersonal and involved groups too. So for example the left is always trying to push its frame in how it distorts cultural and political issues.

Hitting a woman is something that society as a whole, left and right, has agreed is not ok. That is a frame. Your individual frame, however strong, will be overridden by that because they have police backing to assert their definition of a crime.

[–]Spacemage-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Ghetto, suburbs, beach front community, etc etc.

[–]JJ33144 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

In a barbaric society you win if you can hit (or kill) a woman with impunity. Her main recourse would be to get other men to come after you, so even then it’s no guarantee, but in a state of nature the stronger party wins, which is usually a man.

Obviously I’m not advocating randomly assaulting or killing people, male or female. But civilized society, especially gynocentric society, creates an illusion of female strength because of the existence of state protection. Men are the stronger sex. Women are more adept at playing mind games, but men are fighting with one hand tied behind their backs, so it gives the manipulative tools the veneer of greater power.

In a civilized society a man’s best recourse is the withdrawal of attention, affection, provisioning, and protection. If you’re married with kids there are limits to even this, if you want to raise the children in an intact—let alone happy—household, but for women with whom you have no children I think that’s the preferred approach.

[–]bl_12 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

The longer I'm married, the more I become convinced that men are not (and never were) supposed to cohabitate with women. It's truly torture. My wife is pretty cool on the woman spectrum, and it's still just so brutal. You either have to rollover and become the beta bitch - which just dooms you to a lifetime of it, with no turning back - or you play the role of alpha, which dooms you to a lifetime of listening to unescapable whining.

[–]1Entropy-73 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Top frame is when you convince her that she deserves to be hit.

"I'm a bad girl and I need to be punished."

But more generally, if you have to resort to violence, you fucked up something along the way.

I was a skinny nerd as a kid and got picked on and beat up. When I turned 18 I joined the army reserve, picked up a few martial arts, hit the gym and packed on 20 pounds of muscle. Funny thing: I have never been in a fight in my adult life.

Funnier thing: chicks started mistaking me for a "bad boy" and expected me to slap them around.

[–]uebermacht0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

May you link the said thread please? :)
So everyone have an idea what you mean.

[–]rpsheepdog0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I wish I could remember, I'll try to find it when I get some more time, it was a pretty big post about arguing with women I think

[–]them1lfman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Not to mention the jail time and public shaming you'll get for hitting a woman.

[–]Njevil-3 points-2 points  (12 children) | Copy

Consider this hypothetical situation and how would you react to it. You are at a club dancing and a woman pushes you away because she doesn't want you close to her. Do you push back or walk away?

[–]willowhawk9 points10 points  (8 children) | Copy

Obviously not push her back you weirdo.

Pushing her back screams huge insecurity and sensitivity, I.e not power, confidence and control

[–]rpsheepdog2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Personally, I walk away, I have nothing to gain from getting "into it" with a woman

[–]LandoVolrissian3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Rape. Is it rape? I’m guessing rape. Final answer. 🤔/s

[–]Gearski83 points84 points  (1 child) | Copy

Agreed, a guy on here posted something years ago that woke me up on this topic, he said "would you argue with your 6 year old daughter? Of course not"

[–]MilesAndDavis0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Damn. That one quote is really eye opening. Going to look for the original post to that.

[–]goonga_galoonga44 points45 points  (7 children) | Copy

"Toxic Femininity"... Have never heard this phrase used before; only "toxic masculinity." I think that that tells us all we need to know about the current status quo in society.

[–][deleted] 67 points68 points  (0 children) | Copy

Start referring to yourself as a "Proud Masculinist" if you want to stir some shit up.


sexism:prejudice or discrimination based on sex; especially : discrimination against women

The very definition of the term sexism is sexist!

[–]Endorsed ContributorKeffirLime27 points28 points  (4 children) | Copy

Also heard the term "alpha female" thrown around on radio yesterday. They depicted it as this butch, overbearing, confident, career driven "female".

Alpha is supposedly desirable by the opposite sex, who'd wanna touch that.

An alpha female would be an HB10 model who doesn't have to lift a finger because her pussy is in such high demand.

[–]Nega-Chin1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Excellent point. Women who think they are tough and are always ready to start shit verbally and physically aren't alpha, because they couldn't win at that game against 99% of men. It is funny how many women believe that they are empowered by being 'bitchy', assertive, demanding and ready to get physical if someone badmouths them, when they have no power to throw around.

If a 120 lb scrawny twink male starts running his mouth and saying 'fight me, bro' everyone would laugh him off. Why do these women think they are any different?

Granted, there might be a few outliers where a girl lifts like crazy, is shredded, and still beautiful and seductive, but that falls into HB10 territory in its own way.

[–]Endorsed ContributorKeffirLime1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah they're trying to hold themselves to the standard of an alpha male. Because they are not male, most will fail at this anyway.

The ones who succeed have masculine traits, which men don't find attractive anyway. In evolutionary terms no one would want to mate with this and it would become a recessive gene.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

They think they’re different because Hollywood has been showing women fighting against men for the last 30 years.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Or the endless headline articles that say something like “Why are alpha career women having much trouble dating?” Maybe because men aren’t atttacted to or? At all.

[–]Mi993714 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think the reason toxic masculinity is used so often is because there IS toxic masculinity but its coming from the “nice guys” BP side, but of course all the blue pilled boys think “surely not me.”

Ive been fortunate in having quite a few close red pilled friends, and we have all received compliments about how level headed and understandable we are, or how were not like most.

Thats the problem, red pilled men is so far and few between that in general men are toxic. I have a few good friends that are girls (platonic) and they would tell me about some of there break up stories about how nice the guy was until they didnt get there way or once they break up the guy would start stalking the girl and her friends or confront her at work or school repeatedly.

A red pilled man wouldnt give a shit, they would grow up and move on and no have such oneitis over a woman.

[–]The_Chiselnator50 points51 points  (4 children) | Copy

What I do is let her argue all by herself without any rejoinder from me. I take a stand on an issue and shut down all further discussions by refusing to engage and ignoring her attempts to renegotiate. And go right ahead and do what I wanted to do in the first place. She is my woman not my consiglieri.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy

I always thought this was a childish tactic... its truly a shame that nothing else works.

[–]xSiNNx4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yeah, sadly my personal experience with this tactic is in its use by those who are flagrantly incorrect on a topic. In my trying to educate them as to why they’re wrong, they do this, as opposed to engaging and learning and ultimately changing their opinion based on new information.

To me, doing the latter would be mature, and the former would be immature and willfully ignorant.

Now that isn’t always the case; not all arguments are about whether fact X is correct or not. But still: what if you’re in the wrong and you close off?

Then to everyone else, you look willfully ignorant and unreceptive to new, contradicting information.

It’s a tough call, really.

Me personally, in these arguments with women, I don’t argue in the tone of “one of us is wrong and we’re going to argue about who it is” but rather I come at it like “you are factually incorrect. You need to understand that fact first, and then correct it by accepting that what I am saying is the truth”. Basically, I don’t get into arguments unless I know for sure that I’m correct. Thus, when I do argue (especially with females) I use an almost fatherly tone and statements of fact. There isn’t any arguing back because I’ll just say “that’s incorrect” and repeat the relevant correct information.

Maybe not the best way to handle it? But it’s certainly gotten me pretty far in my personal experiences with females over the years.

That being said though, it did take years and years of gritty arguing to learn and perfect the tactics I now employ. Growing up with no male role models and two females as “parents” so to speak, did give me a good head start on arguing with emotional, irrational, illogical people.

That in and of itself has helped me tremendously in dealing with females over the years.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

I was raised by my mom and sister and still don't know how to talk to them.

[–]magx010 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

She is my woman not my consiglieri.


Dude, that's the funniest fucking thing I have ever read on reddit.

[–][deleted] 25 points26 points  (0 children) | Copy

The only time someone should be arguing with a woman is if she is a feminist and you're trying to fuck her while on a date. Consistently shooting down her arguments creates an unbreakable frame that will get panties wet.

Besides that, arguing with women is futile. Their arguments are based on emotion and how they feel in the moment. You can't "beat" that because you have to convince her that her feelings are wrong, which won't ever happen. It's not just a losing battle, the battle is straight up lost after a single word of protest.

The only way to win is not to play the game.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock38 points39 points  (1 child) | Copy

Men and women fail for different reasons. When a woman is held to the male standard, she fails due to incompetence biologically inherent in her gender. When a man attempts to mimic the female standard, he fails due to resorting to inferiority by dropping his standards.

[–]HyperSensitiveSigma4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Arguing with a fool proves there are two.

[–]carpetstain11 points12 points  (8 children) | Copy

Ohh I got a real world example of this.

Context: she’s replying to an Instagram story with me playing with my dog.


Lesson: do not engage

[–]Fedor_Gavnyukov7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

what the fuck is wrong with people

[–]LandoVolrissian3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Lol bitch is definitely triggered. Jelly as bitch.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You should have left this at the first response.

[–]Sick_dick_4evr3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Hahahaha, fucking well played mate. Cool, calm and collected, anti-venom for bitchitis.

[–]Republic_of_Ash1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Just curious. What insecurities does she think you're harbouring?

[–]Krypson-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Oh my god. This has been said to me directly by an ex, same emojis and almost word for word. She sounds BPD.

[–]NormalAndy8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

They win the battle and not the war.

Wanting a weak target to win over yet she doesn't give a shit about he opinions of a beta male.

I guess it all comes down to management. Let them win the war over which colour wallpaper to choose- (but make sure you put up a good clean fight.) As for the important stuff, just keep your mouth shut and life will move swiftly on.

[–]jesper_lundqvist6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

I used to be quite bothered by the feminist girls in college because they used all the usual passive-aggressive terminology like "patriarchy", "male privilege" and "toxic masculinity" and I thought it a very egregious narrow-mindedness, especially when they became very invested in this stuff (the personal is political, as feminists used to say).

Over time, however, I realised that there was no point in getting wound up by stuff like this, because they were arguing from emotions, not from reality and if you attempted to debate with them, they would instantly take the disagreement personally. It takes five seconds to spray the front garden with a hose from a sewage tank, but an hour to clean it up. You can win the battle but you'll lose the war!

I think this applies to arguing with women in general. You have nothing to gain and a lot to lose (while she has a lot to gain and nothing to lose). If you prove your point, people will say you mansplained to her. If you don't prove your point, they will say not even your male privilege was enough to win this one. So in summary: only argue with people you see eye-to-eye with, otherwise you will lose merely by participating.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy

I learned this the hard way. The epiphany just hit me last week. Never argue with women, you can only manipulate their emotions and never let see you being affected.

[–]Mr-Ed20929 points30 points  (2 children) | Copy

Don't change her mind, change her mood

[–]LMM-GT024 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Argue with some good ass food on hand. Works more than you would think.

[–]Endorsed ContributorKeffirLime8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Its like arguing with a child with rights. Wasted energy. Woman don't even know whats best for them. Also, we shouldn't even be engaging with feminists, they're generally HB3 woman who want to behave like men, fuck it, let em at it, and the blue pill orbiters that support them, even better, they deserve eachother.

[–]red_matrix5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

The problem where everyone gets into trouble is wanting the last word. Women are experts in pushing your buttons and always trying to sneak that last word in. Guys have to be willing to walk away when some chick is chirping you and trying to make you look weak. This is one of those cases where holding frame is very hard. And walking away can make you look weak if it's in front of your social circle and girl/plate, etc.

[–]SKRedPill3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

But that's a BAD THING in the eye of women... Why can't my man cry with me about that sad movie? Why can't he express his feelings? Why are you so emotionally unavailable? Your masculinity is so toxic!

Apart from the obvious shit test, I think females really don't get the male experience. Their firmware however responds to masculinity as it should.

But yeah, in an argument, a woman's ego has no concept of the word 'defeat'.

[–]Republic_of_Ash1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

They're defeated when you soften them up emotionally.

[–]memphisjohn4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Guilty as charged. In a moment of weakness I replied to one of those stupid feminist memes... setting off a huge online thread that confirms everything stated in the OP. I knew it was stupid when I did it, then I doubled down.

I pray to Brodin for strength.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Something I got from a guy I follow - and I admit, pay for (Patreon) called Richard Cooper - is that when men argue or have a disagreement there is always the underlying knowledge that it can all come down to physical arguementation - violence.

When you argue with a woman this is not acceptable...for a man to hit a woman. Perfectly acceptable for women to hit men though. So if verbal communication doesn't work humans resort to physical confrontation and therefore you have already lost because you can't hit back.

[–]eboody1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think the important take-away is that if you have to resort to physical violence then you lost the psychological battle. Never lose the psychological battle; if all else fails, you can't lose the psychological battle if you don't engage in it in the first place.

[–]Flamethrowa211 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Great read! Truly a well thought out and realistic outlook on AWALT. The only thing I have to disagree on is your statement: there is a male spectrum and a female spectrum.

This is true for impulsive behaviors only, while conscious decisions give people some overlap. All in all, women behave almost entirely on TRP spectrum if introduced to the ultimate alpha males conditioning.

The main reason why I disagree is because male alphas are on TRP spectrum which is what you claim to be female. People are conditioned behaviorally and in thought religiously.. finding a balance is enlightenment/self actualization.

[–]1AlfredKinsey1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

"She's just LARPing equality to men, swinging her foam sword. "

Sometimes, you can really tell that TRP is a fucking reddit thing.

Not knocking of course, I found this analogy hilarious.

[–]MMDT2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I think you can "argue" with a woman, so long as ultimately you remain (much) less emotionally invested than she is. Patrice O'Neal argued with women all the time and you could literally hear them getting wet as he did it. But he did it in a way that he came out the boss always.

[–]Republic_of_Ash0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Because he wasn't doing it from a place of insecurity, or for validation.

[–]Wathalak7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

"We're men. MEN."

🎶 We're men! We're men in tights, TIGHT tights! 🎶

[–]JensenMse1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Arguing...this is in the same class as when girls get you to open up to them. Total fail if you ever give in to their demands. It only makes you less intriguing, less mysterious, and definitely less manly.

[–]sliff_tindies2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

If you find yourself arguing with women, you are a woman.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

What if I really like to black knight and shitlord?

[–]Republic_of_Ash0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Then you're having fun. Amused mastery.

[–]mrbambocha-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

What does those things mean?

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Your mom said the same words to me when I told her that I prefer younger women.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Totally agree with your post, OP. That said, sometimes you argue with them for fun and as long as you hold the basis of truth in nature like the late great Patrice O'Neal did, you can insult your way into her panties like he did.

[–]Njevil0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I fully agree but I think this post is written in a shit way making it hard to understand the point.

[–]xgozax1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think a lot of people confuse the idea of equality with the idea that people should be treated with decency. Just because I acknowledge that men and women aren’t equal doesn’t mean I won’t treat that woman with decency.

[–]SKRedPill0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Walk away - they'll have the last word, but it'll only be hitting empty space.

All the female manipulation in the world is no match for freedom.

[–]NameUser180 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Had a ‘discussion’ with my family yesterday. My sister is a feminist and she starting going on one of her diatribes, to which I countered something to the degree of “nobody even cares about men’s problems, so count yourself lucky you have a ‘movement’”.

Of course neither she nor my mom could fathom what I was talking about, and the conversation escalated to the point of contraception and men are often made to pay for kids they don’t want / forcibly estranged from those they do etc.

Ended with my mom saying “aww boo hoo” about men being tricked into getting a woman pregnant when I noted it’s always the mans responsibility but the woman’s choice.

My dad was silent through the entire discussion. Lesson learned.

[–]WoodWizzy870 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Does it count as arguing if my GF decided to stick my calphalon non stick pan in the washing machine and I berate her all night and tell her she’s in the doghouse?

[–]metallicdrama0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Never argue with idiots. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

  • Mark Twain

Sort of.

[–]Donwartelone0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

who believes this shit do what u want take no shit from anybody

[–]ppleatintastyanimals 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Just because you can't express your emotions doesn't make you a badass. I did wrestling and practice kickboxing but cry when I feel like it. Stop telling me I have to be manly. This is dumb.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (9 children) | Copy

"Being manly" is having the testosterone and the situational awareness to decide if it's in your best interest to "be manly" at any given time, pussy.

[–]ppleatintastyanimals 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Eat a dick. You are too insecure to express yourself. You don't confront your problems. You just bury them deep down. If anyone is the pussy it is you. Keep hiding in plane sight.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy

Fuck a cactus. Express myself? - like putting up a post that triggers "men" that cry when they feel like it in a sub where a quarter million guys will read it? I have no problems. Except it bothers me when idiots planely have only a minimal grasp of the English language.

[–]Republic_of_Ash 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

He's talking about having the ability to be vulnerable, dude. Not vulnerable as in, cry and bitch about how you feel - but vulnerable as in, allowing yourself to express any fucking emotion with fear of consequence. A man who's ashamed of crying, is less than a man, in my opinion.

[–]ppleatintastyanimals 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

You didn't trigger me. I just recognized your weakness.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Tears of joy on both sides, then.

[–]ppleatintastyanimals 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Your tears of joy don't mean a lot when you don't have the contrast.

[–]1Entropy-70 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I am pretty good with words. I have a law degree and was a champion public speaker and debater. The thing about women is that you can only use words in good times.

Once you are at odds with a woman, words are useless so you have to do what men do: Action. Don't say shit. . .do shit. And your most basic and mind-calming action is to simply walk away.

For one, it is good for your mental health, and for seconds it drives the bitches insane.

[–]Mi9937-1 points0 points  (8 children) | Copy

So what in curious about is situations where a woman crosses the line and starts hitting a dude, most likely doesnt even hurt, but should the dude just knock the bitch tf out to teach her a lesson or what?

[–]ZeroSixNiner1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy

Deflect and extricate. There is no fucking way you can hit a woman back in anger and not have repercussions that will burn your ass for the rest of your life in these days of smartphones and social media. No woman -- good or bad--is worth that.

[–]Mi9937-1 points0 points  (5 children) | Copy

Idk how youd do that when a woman is literally hitting you, youd just look like a pussy from what im imagining

[–]ZeroSixNiner1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

That's immature pride talking. But hey, you do you. Pick a fight with some girl, let her land a good punch and then beat that hoe to the floor. Let's see how that works out for you.

[–]Mi99371 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Im not vouching for it, im just simply asking

[–]ZeroSixNiner1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

My point is twofold: 1. Hitting chicks, even if they deserve it, will never fly in today's society, as others have already said. 2. By disengaging, you are maintaining control of yourself. "Officer, he lost control and punched that woman." Bam. No going back from that, and social media will ensure your reputation is completely nuked. There's only so far DGAF will take you. A woman hits you, you maintain control and walk the fuck away.

Now if you're dealing with a psycho bitch swinging a metal pole or other deadly weapon at you, the stakes have changed and you're dealing with self defense. That's a judgement call for you alone.

[–]Republic_of_Ash0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You'd look like more of a pussy if you ever hit a woman. At most, restrain that hoe, but don't ever hit.

[–]WarBanjo0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's a shitty situation, you look like a bigger pussy when you hit them and it instantly makes you the bad guy... If you won't argue with a 6yr old girl, you shouldn't hit a six year old girl, even if they are trying to swing on you. As the adult in the exchange your job is to deescalate. If she has a history of that kind of shit, avoid her.

The only exception would be if she was brandishing a weapon with intent to use it on you.

[–]Aktiv8r0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Negative reinforcement over punishment. Once she starts hitting neg her to hit harder and more accurately. " haha, you call that a punch? Arent you supposed to hit people in the face? What does punching my chest do?" So on and so forth while laughing.

The point is to instigate her to punch as hard as she can to your face. At which point you you move your forehead into the punch while also decreasing the distance between you two. The result will be her breaking her hand.

Now youve inflicted damage without lifting a finger. Shell be hard pressed to garner facor when the injury is self inflicted.

Source- actually did this with a drunk bar chick.

[–]kingbraderz[🍰] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

“Cauliflower ears” had me dying lmao good post

[–]xtsv-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

I find myself winning arguments with women, which is really fun.

[–]SavvyMillennial-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Wish these posts where shorter or numbered. So hard to read lol. Maybe i'm just slow and or spoiled

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (11 children) | Copy

Its better to argue back at them with a violent tone to make them fear you because deep down they know they dont stand a chance against a man, and even if they think/”know” you wont hit a girl they are still pussies both literally and figuratively so a little threatening bodylanguage tone will often shut them up.

Of course in 90% of cases its a waste of time to argue with logic and in a calm manner since feminists are always wrong and they dont care.

[–]malmordar-2 points-1 points  (9 children) | Copy

You should seriously consider writing a book about it, I am sure a book like that would do well in a country that undermines women, you know. One of those fucked up dirty countries that smell like curry.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (8 children) | Copy

Nah, such a book would do well in any country that values truth.

And India does not smell curry, and its not fucked up and only certain parts are dirty, it doesnt undermine women, women are in their natural place on India since women are naturally inferior to men.

[–]malmordar-1 points0 points  (7 children) | Copy

I’m sure plenty of women will chew you up and spot you out, and I never said India. But I guess you k ow your country better :) hahaa. Listen kid. I’d be happy to beat you up. But I’d rather let a woman do it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

Im sure they would like to do that but they cannot because i would just chew them up and spit them out and then step on their weak small little bodies.

You have mentioned India many times before so its no secret what you meant you pathetic little cocksucking whore.

You would never be able to beat me up, I would easily kill you with my bare hands without breaking a sweat, and I would do the same to any woman who tried to fight me.

[–]malmordar-1 points0 points  (5 children) | Copy

Where do you live, i am in Australia right now and oslo next week. I’ll Come To You wherever you are, just name place. Also I’ll allow you to bring 5 friends to help you with hammers I’d you need . I’ll Come barehanded and naked. Gives you something to look at and get wet over before I make you cry like a girl and send you running to your ugly mama

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy

come to sweden, stockholm to be precise, arlanda airport. Let me know when you are there. I dont need any help to kill you. It will take me 10 seconds to make you cry like a little feminine bitch, and just like you are an ugly incel, your mother looks like a disgusting whore.

[–]malmordar0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Full name and address or stfu

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

im not stupid enough to write my personal adress online for anyone to see, if you want to fight come to Arlanda and then we can pick a place from there where I will kill you little whore.

[–]malmordar-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

Pok pok pok pok pok .

Indian pussy rapist boy.

[–]DrizzlyShrimp36-3 points-2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Hold on. So if I have a certain stance on a certain issue and she has a different stance on said issue, I should just shrug and not give a shit and not waste time making my point? Or should I say what my stance is then not bother arguing afterwards?

Say I have a solid argument that will shut her the fuck up at once, should I give it to her or just not give a shit and keep doing whatever I was doing?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

You feel a need to "fight to be right" or can you realize that it just doesn't matter?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

She doesn’t give a shit about your rock solid argument. Women argue to establish their hen pecking order and to reach concensus. They aren’t much interested in the truth.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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