You're not her top option

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June 29, 2018

Are you sitting there right now, with your phone in your hand, your palms sweating, heart pumping, mind racing, about to make a post on AskTRP asking what you should text/say to a girl over social media or how to respond to something she sent you or said to you?

If you are ever having to ask yourself, or needing to ask others, "What the hell should I text this girl/respond with", or "How long should I wait to respond to this text" or anything that requires any thinking and planning in regards to texting her, chances are, you're not her top option.

When you are her top option, you'll know. There will be no doubt or guessing. The level of investment and attention she will be giving you will be off the charts to the point where its almost creepy or clingy. She will respond immediately to your texts, initiate conversation all the time, and always be available. You won't worry if she will respond or not. Escalation attempts/logistic arrangements are cooperative and accepted. Since you are at the top of her mind, its almost impossible to lose. You are all she is thinking about. When her phone vibrates or makes noise, she picks it up hoping its you.

You don't have time to sit there and wonder what to text her, what to say, how long to respond, how to escalate, or any of that shit. Because either she will do all the work for you and take all the guesswork out of it, or she will positively respond to pretty much anything you send her way within reason. It's almost impossible to do wrong in her eyes. It's like some kind of super cheat code has been activated.

When you aren't her top option, you'll know. You will feel like you are doing all the legwork. She will seem cold, standoffish or rationing her attention. She will take forever to respond to texts, if she responds at all. Her texts will be brief and to the point. You'll get wishy washy communication and answers. You send texts and such worrying she won't respond. Getting her to communicate with you will feel like you are trying to give her root canal. She won't respond to escalation attempts/logistics and ghost you or give you vague wishy washy answers, or worse, try to change the subject and act like she didn't even see it. It's because you aren't at the top of her mind, and therefore, not a priority for her. When her phone vibrates or makes a noise, she picks it up hoping its her top option, and its not, instead, its you, and she is disappointed. This leads to negative reinforcement in her mind(since she was disappointed it was you), and actually depreciates you in her eyes and makes it difficult for you to climb up the ladder and become her top option.

It's a night and day difference when you are and aren't a girl's top option.

You are sitting there thinking what to say, how to respond, how long to wait, and all of that because the frame is already set. You're not her top option. You're trying to figure out how to be her top option, failing to realize you are only digging your hole deeper the harder you try. It's not something you can negotiate, its not something you can do simply by texting her more and more.

When you aren't her top option, the best thing you can do is withdraw. I know it sucks, and it might feel like you are ending any momentum you may have had, but trust me. The more you communicate with her when you aren't her top option, the more pissed off she will get at you in her subconcious. She has a man in mind, and you aren't him.

When you are her top option, its blatantly obvious, you won't have to ask. It's easy mode of easy mode. There are really only 3 things you can do to hurt yourself when you are her top option:

  • Self depreciation. I.E. typical beta behavior.

  • Going full, 100% player. It's fine to go 90% player with her. But too much and she will not trust you.

  • Loss of Frame.

Every single one of those 3 would be self inflicted if you are her top option. Beta behavior? Self inflicted. Going too much player? Self inflicted. Loss of frame? Since you're her top option, things are in your frame, so any loss of frame would be self inflicted.

That's it. You can do no wrong in her eyes otherwise, so it doesn't really fucking matter what you say, when you reach out, how long you wait between texts, what you do. Chances are she will do the initiating and the talking and the communicating and even the logistics arranging so all you have to do is not be a beta autist try hard and its you're golden ticket. Don't fuck it up. Easy easy easy mode when you are her top option is to say nothing at all and let your actions do the talking. You literally can't screw up at that point.

BUT MALLARDCOVE! I'm not her top option right now, how do I become her top option!!!????

Like I said earlier. WITHDRAW. I repeat - when her phone vibrates, when it makes a ringtone, she picks it up, gets excited and gets a dopamine rush, hoping its her top option. Then she sees that its you(not her top option) and disappointment washes over her brain. She then begins to associate you with disappointment each time this happens(negative reinforcement), killing your value in her eyes.

Withdraw, and game other women, try to find one who will actually appreciate you because you're her top option. Trust me. When you are her top option there is no stress or worry, its easy and care free. That sounds much more pleasant than stressing over some bitch who doesn't give a fuck about you.

BUT MALLARDCOVE, I don't want to withdraw. I want her.

Drop the scarcity mentality, kill your oneitis. find options, learn abundance. But I know most of you fucks won't listen to me, so I'll say this. Withdraw for 10-20 days, forget about her but keep her on the backburner, game other women, and try to send out ONE feeler text to see how she reacts. Chances are she's not into you, and you still aren't her top option, so you'll either get no response or a wishy washy one. If you do, put her back on the backburner, wait 10-20 days, forget about her, game other women, and do it again, but keep in mind there is no point in continuing this cycle. Because if you all of a sudden do become her top option, she will reach out to you. You won't have to go find her.

The only reason I put this here is because I have had limited success(keyword: limited) with the backburner approach before, but that's because I literally forget about these women, don't care, and game other women. So when I reach out to the backburner women, I give no fucks either way and eventually give up and 100% forget about her after 1 or 2 attempts. The backburner method doesn't have a high success rate, but the success rate isn't 0, which can add up to several extra dates/lays over the long run. The problem is that you fucks have scarcity mentality/oneitis, so you will not understand the core principles behind the backburner method and how to actually do it the right way, and you're destined to fuck it up. The backburner method doesn't fucking work if she's your only option and the only girl you are pursuing. Because if you are a chef only preparing one dish, putting that dish on the backburner is fucking stupid and makes no sense.

BUT MALLARDCOVE, just because I am not her top option, doesn't mean she isn't into me, right?

When you aren't her top option, she absolutely isn't into you. Women get oneitis just like men. Yes, they have men on the backburner themselves and backups, but they are not into those guys until they are needed(invisible).

The thing is, women are programmed to focus on one guy, because that's how women evolved. That's why oneitis in men is inherently a beta/feminine behavior, because men evolved to spread their seed across several females.

Women don't give a fuck about you when you aren't her top option, and it will be perfectly clear. Even if she tries to string you along and make you an orbiter/LJBF/friendzone, she doesn't give a fuck about you outside of what's in it for her and what she can extract out of you. She might be attracted to you, but she isn't INTO you unless you are her top option.

BUT MALLARDCOVE! I just got her number, you see. You don't expect me to be her top option right away, right?

Obviously it may be a bit of a stretch to be a girl's top option right off the bat(if a girl is anywhere remotely attractive, she'll have at least a dozen of viable male options in her stable at any given moment). But there is only one way to find out. Hit her up. See how she responds. Like I said, you'll know. I've had girls be into me and be their top option right off the bat. It does happen. You might need to build a tad of rapport over 3-5 message exchanges, but it can happen if you are attractive enough with a strong enough frame. If she's not into you, everything I have written applies. Withdraw, game other women, put her on the backburner, and if you become a top option for her, she'll reach out.


Post Information
Title You're not her top option
Author mallardcove
Upvotes 1692
Comments 180
Date 29 June 2018 06:50 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Original Link
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Red Pill terms found in post:
ghostingbetaabundancescarcityframefriend zoneorbiterLJBFgamethe red pill

[–]Theoriginaldon23355 points356 points  (4 children) | Copy

This is the type of hard to swallow posts that really gravitated me towards this sub. The truth hurts but it's incredibly beneficial

[–]Hellsteelz94 points95 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, these are the posts that sting extra hard, right into the gut. They are also the ones who make you more aware.

[–]bluefingerblue14 points15 points  (2 children) | Copy

Yup. This is the kinda thing we know deep down in the back of our minds, but oneitis causes you to start rationalizing her actions. Surely she feels the same way about you that you feel about her.

Previously I’ve tried the back burner approach, but unless you have actual abundance, it won’t work. You need to truly have enough options where you don’t care if you never see her again, even if you have oneitis.

I’m in this position right now. Finally got my abundance to a point where it doesn’t matter if my oneitis comes back around in terms of her interest level. And I’m in a much better place now. Don’t feel the same desire to try to get to be her top option again. It’s whatever. Maybe it’ll happen maybe it won’t.

Biggest thing is always working on new prospects. It’s easy to get complacent once you have a steady pussy or two, but once her interest level starts to wain, you’ll get needy unless you’ve been working on new options simultaneously.

[–]MilkMoney11112 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy

Kinda bittersweet eh? It's like you once-upon-a-time was really passionate about this girl and as the pill digests, you kill some of that passion. It's healthy because you're not emotionally invested and immune to being hurt by her, but you lose that special unicorn feeling that made her so special in the first place. Abundance is really the only option anymore. C'est la vie.

[–]bluefingerblue2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah man wow. Couldn’t have said it any better. It’s tough because that feeling is pretty exhilarating, but the alternative is better.

[–]DeontologicalSanders263 points264 points  (8 children) | Copy

Solid post. The Light Switch Effect is real and can happen at any point, and with any woman, not only in relationships. The minute she perceives you as second-best, whether it's because another guy shows up, or because of some little slip-up of yours that planted a seed of subconscious doubt in her mind, the night-and-day difference is immediate and obvious. It's lame af.

Abundance is the only way to beat it. Women be shoppin', and they have no shortage of places to shop. Set up and sell your wares on the busiest street you can. With time and consistent effort, there will be a decent-sized line in front of your stand, and other women walking by will be wondering what they're missing.
Cultivate options of your own, so that when Stacy hits you with ambivalence, it's no big deal because you've already got plans with Becky, and Sarah as a backup.

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguardbsutansalt[M] 10 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy

The Light Switch Effect

Here's a solid post on The Light Switch Effect as well that everyone should read. I've experienced it firsthand and boy is it true. Women are mercenary in how they love and once it's no longer your turn, they will often flip on a dime and reframe history (I suspect to avoid any coginitive dissonance and/or to avoid any bad feelings about their choices).

[–]wonderdog88881 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

If you are in a relationship you are already her lowest level sexual encounter. All the guys she has fucked before you have dumped her or she would be with them. If she goes out at night she can very very easily pickup a Chad. She just can’t keep them.

This is the women’s dilemma.

You are her Clone Wars.

And the opposite is true for a guy. All the one night stands were with lower quality girls that you had to run from in the morning.

She is your Empire.

It’s only normal she is looking for an upgrade.

[–]SuaveUchiha2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Lmao please explain this SW reference to me

[–]infamous3238319 points320 points  (53 children) | Copy

If you want to be her top option, make it so she isn’t your top option via abundance. A guy and a girl both having oneitis for each other is a fairytale, it’s either one way or the other. Strive to be the guy that hot girl has oneitis for, and life will be great.

[–]ChadsLeftNut381 points382 points  (16 children) | Copy

"The best relationship in the world is when the woman loves the man and the man likes her." - Fat black guy RIP

[–]che5568124 points125 points  (6 children) | Copy

Sounds like a Patrice quote.R.I.P🙏🏿

[–]ChadsLeftNut56 points57 points  (5 children) | Copy

How many fat black guys are there

[–]1dongpal96 points97 points  (3 children) | Copy

Many, but there's only one with that kind of wisdom.

[–]TonytheNetworker91 points92 points  (2 children) | Copy

So much this. I strongly believe for relationships to work in the man's favor the women have to be head over heels in love with the guy, cooking him food, cleaning his apartment, happily gobbling on his dick, among other things. For the guy, he can appreciate her company, reward her accordingly, and be the rock she relies on but being just as in love with her as she is for you is a recipe for disaster.

[–]elborgo2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Could anyone elaborate some more on this? Any thoughts or articles I should read...

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (4 children) | Copy

He really was a genius, I don't understand how he was so naturally insightful.

[–]WannaBangTheYoungins4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

He needed insight on physical fitness

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

it genuinely saddens me every time I'm reminded of him that he's dead. However I would kill to have his natural confidence, insight, and wit.

[–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove[S] 99 points100 points  (23 children) | Copy

Pretty much this.

If a girl is your top option because she's your only option, you're doing it wrong. You'd be surprised at how many girls came crawling back to me after I ditched them because I knew they weren't into me and I felt my time was better spent finding new girls to game.

[–]TonytheNetworker22 points23 points  (22 children) | Copy

What was your success rate with the girls who came back after you knew they weren't interested? I call these girls boomerangs. Don't feel the connection so I ghost and they usually come back anywhere from 3-12 months later.

[–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove[S] 41 points42 points  (21 children) | Copy

Boomerang is a good one. Sounds about right.

I hesitated on putting that part in my post, but I did, because TRP truly is a numbers game, and the boomerangs, while rare, do add up over time and can represent an extra few lays/dates per year. The problem is I know too many oneitis losers are going to see that and think that its OK to keep holding onto women who clearly aren't into them.

I'd say for a boomerang/backburner to work, there had to be some kind of connection/chemistry there, with a bonus if you were able to play with her emotions or connect with her on an emotional level. And of course, you have to be higher SMV/attractive.

For the sake of this I'll call a boomerang a girl I forgot about who came back to me without me doing anything or reaching out. I'd say that's more common. In fact, me being 30 years old now, most girls will find their way back to you at some point if they remain single/unmarried. Sometimes it takes a few years but they really do come back especially after hitting the wall and they see you kicking ass SMV wise. But even pre-wall ones will boomerang back if you were able to leave a positive impression on them and maintain/improve your SMV. You have to remember that whoever their top option is may be a Chad but he may not be red pilled and could ruin his chances, and she will be on the prowl for a better top option.

For backburner girls, aka girls who I put on the backburner and make an effort to reach out to again a few weeks later, I'd say the success rate is low, maybe 1 in 20? I can only count 3 or 4 girls total who I have ever ended up going out with/fucking with this method. I'd say its really a matter of being in the right place at the right time. Maybe her top option was acting a fool and there was a void at the top of her list, and me reaching out to her allowed me to become a candidate to become her top option at that moment, where if I hadn't reached out, I wouldn't have been a candidate.

[–]lookoutitscaleb6 points7 points  (14 children) | Copy

Do you ever allow the boomerangs back in?

I've had a few which I mentioned in the comments down below. After they came back I continue to ignore them because I'm not interested in someone who isn't interested in me. Even if they are now.

[–]TheTrenTrannyTrain15 points16 points  (12 children) | Copy

That's just your ego talking. The fact that they boomerang back means they're testing you to see if you have the potential to be their top pick since their original top pick didn't work out.

Had a plate come back 4 months later, told her to come to my place and she was compliant.

[–]lookoutitscaleb5 points6 points  (10 children) | Copy

I was wondering about that. If it was my ego being offended or if I was done.

It was more on "once a girl shows disrespect, demote her, once she has been demoted she can never rise above her previous position".

She was only a fuckbudy and once she showed disrespect I demoted and she can never return to fuckbudy status.

[–]RedHoodhandles12 points13 points  (5 children) | Copy

That one was of the hardest pills to swallow and I am still struggling with it from time to time. You need to let go of your ego. Don't base your selfworth on any women and how hot your hottest lay was.

Does she fuck you. Good. She doesn't? Then she can fuck off. You can take it very far with this concept. Where you draw the line is up to you.

Mental point of origin. It must be you. Always.

[–]lookoutitscaleb8 points9 points  (4 children) | Copy

I wouldn't say I base my selfworth off of women, but to me the boomerangs coming back feels like a siren call. Hey you're about to make it to the other side fall back into your old ways and come with me. Allowing them back in appears to me to be a form of telling them their disrespect is ok. They were cut off for a reason and that reason stands.

[–]youngzari5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Exactly. It's not about selfworth but self respect. The vibe wouldn't even be the same nor really worth it anyway. Walk away, move on..

[–]MilkMoney1110 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I'm going through the same shit right now. A girl hit me up after three months of me ghosting her. I considered her previous actions disrespectful and was willing to never contact her again. And she wasn't the greatest lay anyways. But I've noticed the less I care, the less emotions I had invested in her, the more I'm willing to start spinning her again.

If I truly do not care, I'll fuck her again. My ego won't get in the way of that. But I truly don't care if I don't fuck her either. It's up to her to prove she's worth another fuck after her behavior. So I allow her to be nice and I'm casual back. Key word is "allow." She is 100% in MY frame now. So she has little opportunity to disrespect me again with all the work she has to put in now. And if she can't handle MY frame then I have no problem ever talking to her again.

[–]TheTrenTrannyTrain7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy

Banging an old FWB is the easiest lay ever, barely any effort is needed.

Plus you don't have to take humansockpuppet's bitch management guide like it's dogma, it's just a guideline. Just make sure you guard your emotions wisely.

[–]lookoutitscaleb3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

I would definitely say that I was getting emotional which is part of why I cut communication. It seemed like letting her back is saying her actions are okay and she can hit me up whenever she wants to fuck and I will be compliant.

[–]TheTrenTrannyTrain6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

I look at it this way, she boomerang back, meaning she wants to go back into your frame; you have all the power. Now would be a good time for you to test her compliance, make her pay for your drinks or dinner when meeting up, make her feel she has to win your affection back.

[–]Oland_Devo1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I had an old plate fly me to Calgary for a Megadeth concert once. Hit me up after years. The trip turned out to be a disaster, cuz the bitch was crazy. But it was pretty cool up until the point where she got herself kicked out of the venue for being too fucked up and starting fights. Haha.

Probably shouldn't have done that one.

[–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It depends, if she is pre-wall and not just a desperate post waller looking for a soft landing, I just see where it goes.

[–]greatamericancities5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

They all boomerang eventually. Social media is the primary means. Married or not, no matter.

[–]Dartleather5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

Can you explain the difference between a Chad and being Redpill? I thought they went hand in hand.

[–]Fantawaters15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy

It just means a chad is someone who girls love, think typical jock/fuckboy, whereas red pill guy has knowledge on inter-gender relations, chad or not

[–]Nocryingok4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

The thing about the boomerangs is... what's the other option besides ignoring them? Orbiting them is retarded, so ghosting for a while is the only reasonable thing to do

[–]Zech4riah0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This boomeranging only works if you were once her top option and actually fucked her.

[–]3LiveAFTSOV41 points42 points  (2 children) | Copy

I believe the best option a man can have, is to be by himself.

If any woman gives you trouble or treats you ad anything other than her top priority, knowing that you're cool with being on your own is the ultimate abundance.

"U don't wanna come? Ok. That's fine." 100% Chill.

It's also good when dealing with shitty relationships. If you'd rather be alone than with a girl, that girl is gonna do everything in her power to keep you, cus her knowing you'd rather be alone than date her will destroy her ego.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

knowing that you're cool with being on your own is the ultimate abundance

This is the most underrated and one of the hardest things for men, even for those who are trp aware, but imo, it's the absolute best. When you realize that your goal is to improve and progress everyday, instead of chasing women and making them the focus of your life, and realizing that they will eventually come to you on their own (not initiate ofc, but you get what i mean), because they'll be drawn by you, the mindset that you talk about becomes natural.

[–]Lib3rtarianSocialist5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

A guy and a girl both having oneitis for each other is a fairytale

I wished it could somehow be possible. A patriarch?

[–]AlexanderTheBread7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

Things like this happen, but they are exceedingly rare. I'm not talking about two people experiencing puppy love. I'm talking decades-long love that doesn't seem to lose steam. Case in point, my parents. But their story is so unique as to be useless to learn from.

[–]Lib3rtarianSocialist1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I am thinking that it required two people to be near-perfect and understanding their own intentions. Not an ideal to pursue though.

[–]Red_Faust10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy

I like how MattyAnon writes it (I'm paraphrasing here):

Poligamy is the only rational answer to hipergamy

It's very beautifully condensed. Poligamy vs Hipergamy. If she's constanly and mercilessly screening for the top man available, the only possible answer is to manage several options at once to increase the odds of being the top man for one or several of them.

[–]jonpe870 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

This is Blue Pill in Red Pill skin!!

It's not true, girls aren't focused on one guy. I worked with girls all my life and they are sluts. The thing is that they can fake it so well that you think it's impossible. I worked with one girl that would pass all day flirting with me, kissing, grabing my balls, blowjobs.. and other day she was crying cuz her boyfriend did something.. all the girls that I worked were sluts, the thing is that the mind seems to create different realities for distinct contexts.

Maybe I should write a post, I was 16, and since then I m RedPill, never had a girlfriend

I had no game, but at some point you get some intimacy for working all day together, and all it takes is one sexual inuendo, one day, and so the vibe was there forever.

So when a see first time M. Method I understood it, game is not something you do, but what you dont do, is the art of play to loose, don't give a fuck about impress, about stereotypes, not even one thought about try editing youself for another person.

So, EVEN if you are her best option she will fuck worse options too given the chance, you can be a total 10/10 rich, smart, she will fuck a guy worse than you, cuz instincts beat emotions and reason.

[–]infamous32381 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

How is this any different from what I was saying? Of course girls are sluts and aren’t focused exclusively on one guy. But one guy is their top option, the guy they’re crushing on, at that moment. Even if they’re fucking others. Oneitis is different for girls.

[–]Gl0weN59 points60 points  (0 children) | Copy

damn it really do be like that sometimes.....

[–]Red_Faust72 points73 points  (10 children) | Copy

Mallard, you are becoming one my favorite posters here in TRP, your material is incredibly insightful and this post is memorable like every one of them. You're pampering us.

Regarding your post, after more than a decade of experience, one of the few things that still irks me is when you're a girl's top option, and you can feel it, and somehow you get out of the top position.

It happened recently to me and oh man it still stings. Seeing someone so into you, and switch that off overnight is pretty disheartening. I might have miscalibrated something, or some cadder cad might have appeared. Who knows? She won't tell and we shouldn't ask. As you say, withdrawing is the only viable option.

But still, every time a girl seems madly into you, then switches in the blink of an eye, it stings and you become a little bit heartless, a little bit more machiavelic, a little more darktriadish for the next time.

Another thing I wanted to add:

  • If she's into you, and you're her top priority, strike while the iron is hot.

One tell that she's into you is that she's ok to meet in person ASAP, and you should take that advantage as soon as you can, when logistics allow. The longer you wait to close, the more chances for you to hurt your chances or for a newer chad to appear.

[–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove[S] 38 points39 points  (7 children) | Copy

The "lightswitch" phenomenon you described, sucks. No doubt about it. It happens.

From experience I'd say the most common reason is because there was another guy in the picture who took your place as the top option. No other way to put it. It sucks, its a blow to your ego, but from my experience most of the time that is why.

Of course there are times you self depreciate, lose frame or fuck up somehow without realizing it until much later down the line, but most of the time, its another guy. Whether it be her ex, or someone out Chad'ed you.

When she replaces you as her top option with another guy, its either an ex that alpha widowed her, or the guy has to be multiple magnitudes of SMV higher than you. If he is only marginally better, or equal, it's not going to happen, because when you are her top option, she will inherently raise/inflate your SMV in her eyes, as well as be less willing to entertain the notion of other guys period. It has to be a home run in terms of his SMV eclipsing yours, or her ex that alpha widowed her.

It does suck though. I had it happen to me a couple months ago. Every year we have a huge annual sports event come to the city I work in, and all week long I am covering the event and the hours are long and the weather often sucks. But this past year I hit it off with a girl who worked for a competitor and we got along extremely well right off the bat. The whole week, which usually sucks, was awesome because of our chemistry. We went out and fucked the first day after the event was over that we had free time. The whole week she was blowing up my phone, doing all the initiating, textbook example of a girl who is totally into you and you are her top option. Then after I fucked her and she went home, the lightswitch happened. No more texts from her, no more initiation, none. Turns out her ex re-entered the picture and took her on a spontaneous trip to San Francisco. Even though I did my best not to over-invest and put all my eggs in her basket, there was still that disappointment that a girl who was so into me one week just all of a sudden wasn't the next. It's why you have to be vigilant in guarding against oneitis and investment. My pre-TRP self, I probably would still be weeping and moaning about it today. Instead I got over it quickly.

I had another girl do the same thing, which I wrote about in a post last week. She was into me, I was her top option, we make plans, but then she stands me up. I hear nothing from her and still haven't since. Looking at her Instagram story, it was also another guy. I don't know if it was an ex or what, but the guy looks like a loser so it must be, my SMV is way higher than his.

[–]TheTrenTrannyTrain13 points14 points  (2 children) | Copy

To add to your experience, it doesn't have to be another guy more AF than you. It could be you projected too much AF and not enough BB, and she could be in her ovulation cycle where security is more important to her. Enter BB orbiter who professes his undying love to her, and you'd also get the situation where the girl who worshipped the ground our walk on yesterday, suddenly decided to ghost you and not reply your text today.

[–]newcomer3319 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

Goddam exactly this happened to me a month ago. I applied dread too much, and she ghost me for ever, even if the day before she was writing me love letters.

The lightswitch is truly shocking. In my case, it was sudden loss of social status due to her beta friends envy, calling me a misogynist, etc. giving me shit because I display RP behavior and her friends were the most betaized feminist you can find. They slowly but surely fucked my status . My LTR one day just vanished into thin air.

I don't think it was another guy. She's still single a month later, I'm quite sure it was my loss of status/frame. Now that I think about it, there was a huge BB new orbiter of her, but they are not dating, the guy is too pathetic. But yes, you describe my situation almost exactly:

  1. too alpha/dread

  2. ovulation

  3. new BB orbiter into the scene

  4. ghost/breakup.

They are not dating, it would surprise me as the guy is truly pathetic, too low a SMV for her but you never know.

[–]oyoungpadawan10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks man this post hit home.

Experienced the same thing you did a few months ago. Amazing chemistry, did all initiating. Asked me to come over etc, made me breakfast in the morning. Treated me like a king.

Then one day an ex entered the picture and I was forgotten and dropped like a stone in the blink of an eye. I later heard from someone she was totally alpha widowed by the guy.

Like you I tried not over-investing, still met other girls, but when a girl is sooo into you it's hard. Didn't help that she was so freaking hot either...

Being the top option is dangerous for oneitis.

[–]RedHoodhandles0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I just lost my raw dogging main plate/fwb 2 days ago. We were monogamous for a month but I had to downgrade her to plate status permanently. I lost my job 3 weeks ago. That same week she met a guy through a girlfriend of hers and she realized that she had no sexual attraction for me any more. How comvenient.. It's like a switch flipped in her had. Yes, she actually said that. She didn't want to tell me sooner because she didn't want to lose me as a friend. I hugged her goodbye and she said that she hopes we'll stay in contact. 'No, of course not. Take care.'

Yes it's a blow to your ego. It always will be I guess. But you'll get used to it. Wipe your mouth and get back to business. I have two Tinder dates lined up for next week. There's only one way. Forward.

[–]Zech4riah0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

She isn't your plate/fwb if you are monogamous with her. She is your girlfriend.

Like monogamous plate, wtf is that?

[–]greatamericancities7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

...strike while the iron is hot.

Crucial. I remember someone else describing this as having the "killer instinct". Uncertainty, hesitation, poor logistics, etc. When you are the top option, you have a brief window of free action.

[–]freshking56ace4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

My friend literally went to the dark side because some girl kept being a boomerang and then decided to tell him she doesn't wanna see him anymore. Smh so now he's done caring about feelings and just been having sex with women. It's crazy how these "women" can change someone.

[–]SoA_MC28 points29 points  (8 children) | Copy

There’s two versions of “top option”, one where she is at ease with you and feels like you’re being real with her, which is the one you describe here. She has no reason to delay texts on purpose, or play any sort of game. Usually to be this you have to have experienced the second version of the top option.

And that is where you are the one she wants the most but isn’t sold on you because you haven’t given her enough reason to be at ease with you. Even if you’re fucking regularly and she really likes you, if she thinks you’re good looking enough to get any girl you like or you fail to text back for a day, alarm bells go off in her head. So what happens is she plays games, but as long as you remain her top option SHE WILL reply, SHE WILL meet you even if she makes you jump through a few hoops. She will want to appear less available to you so as to increase her own perceived value. This is natural, everyone does it especially to our top options because we want them to think we’re hot shit.

[–][deleted] 24 points25 points  (2 children) | Copy

You’re dead on with this. My one plate does this. She will throw herself at me and do whatever I want. Then when I deny her she’ll disappear for a while, but she always comes back. It usually cycles like this: we’ll fuck, she’ll try to fuck again in a short period of time, I’m too busy. I won’t hear from her for a week or three, and she’ll come back asking when I can I fuck her again. Sometimes if I’m bored I’ll throw one out and tell her to come over. It’ll either be an immediate yes, or she’ll play games and I’ll drop her. Some time passes and she’s back again begging for it.

It works, because I truly don’t care if she sticks around or not. The sex is good, but I have other options. If not her, someone else will satisfy me.

[–]VW_wanker2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

It is like in poker, sometimes you gotta fold the aces and play the next hand. People get married to aces even though the board has them as an underdog. And sure enough lose.

[–]AlexanderTheBread0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Sounds exactly like a girl I know. It's been two months now though as she found some dude. Thankfully.

[–]MilkMoney1117 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

I wish this was discussed more in the sub. It's great to look at everything so nihilistic and remove emotion, to teach that looks really don't matter as much as guys think for the ones less fortunate in that department. I love the support for the men here.

But for the guys that just "seem" like they're players to women. They see a guy and think "Oh he can get any girl he wants but not me, I'm going to be the special one, the one HE has to chase." It's a paradox because women are attracted but through sheer insecurity they play these games. Hard to get becomes impossible to get. The "game" is no longer fun, but annoying and a waste of time for men.

You can be an attractive guy but it's not enough. I feel as if you have to work even harder because women are more intimidated or fearful of being hurt. It's a totally different game of push/pull for those guys. You must show interest in the girl so she gets the tinglez but not so much you enter orbiter territory.

I'm not the best at expressing these points. I wish we had more discussion on how already attractive men can best utilize game.

[–]Zech4riah0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Interesting, you should do a post about this that we can have a discussion about the topic.

Makes sense tho and I think I agree with you. Seems like most of the time I'm the second kind of top option because. I guess I should add a bit of comfort to my game.

[–]SoA_MC0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Ultimately it’s the girl’s self esteem and level of self respect that will determine how long you can be the second kind before she ends things. At the end of the day, if you’re her top option she’s going to know she has competition, as do we when we have a top option of our own, it’s natural. She needs to always have a certain level of doubt, but this will raise continuously and if you don’t occasionally push it back down some, that doubt will become a truth in her head and she will convince herself that you’re gonna hurt her. Then, her walls go up and she’ll cut you off before she invests any more emotions in you. This happens when she’s already caught some feels and as said the timing of this is very relative to the girl’s self esteem/respect, could be months or years. And we can say IDGAF as much as we want but if you want to keep seeing a girl you have to give a bit of a fuck, otherwise she will be the one not giving a fuck about you anymore.

[–]Zech4riah0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Yes, and add this to the post too. Otherwise I'll post quoting your text :D

[–]The_Chiselnator24 points25 points  (2 children) | Copy

Unless you are her Siamese twin your are never going to be her top choice all the time everywhere. Ultimately you have to be on your own mission to maximize your own life experience and enjoy your life. She will meet some mechanic guy who will fuck her right in ear and you will never know. Do other things. Get some when you get some. Do your thing the rest o the time.

She is never yours, it is just your turn.

[–]Werewolf35b2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

So true.

Good response to a good post.

[–]88VILLI16 points17 points  (2 children) | Copy

great read, thanks for this.

i like how you started the post but asktrp is a shambles atm. the majority of the people posting there lately probably won’t read this, hopefully it’s just school holidays that are to blame.

[–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove[S] 39 points40 points  (1 child) | Copy

AskTRP has always been hopeless betas/virgins/incels looking for generic relationship advice on how they can win over their oneitis instead of actual red pilled advice. Every now and then you get someone who posts something there who clearly has no grasp or idea what TRP is, but most guys posting there know damn well what TRP is, what the red pilled solution is, they just don't want to follow it and post there hoping that they get a response that is confirmation bias.

I.E. all the posts you see there about guys asking what they should do if their ex (texted them/talked to them/friended them on social media/viewed their snapchat story), they already know damn well they are going to try to talk to the girl and try to win her back over and start a new relationship with her. They've already made up their mind. So when they ask for advice its not for advice, its to hope that someone responds with "Yeah dude totally try to win her back bro!" so they can justify their idiotic decision to return to their ex by saying "Well AskTRP told me to do it!" and therefore wash their hands of responsibility when shit hits the fan.

It's nothing new.

[–]88VILLI4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

i see, i only really used to lurk there and started replying recently, which must be why it seems worse to me now.

i feel like a lot of people can convince themselves that after reading the sidebar and a few posts that they’ve swallowed the pill but carry on pretty much as before. hopefully after seeing the same result for a while they can accept that they haven’t put the work in and start to apply the teachings, rather than continue believing they did it right and give up on trp.

[–]TonytheNetworker51 points52 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yup. Damn, I love this post. I remember before the red pill I would be texting girls, hoping to make something happen. Slow text, one-word answers, the girl is "busy", among other indications that she's not interested. Now that I have decent game and have been losing significant weight it's like a day and night difference. Girls will "accidentally" leave their panties or lipstick in my apartment to come see me. They text me all the time and sound happy to do so, will show me off like some damn trophy in front of their friends, will brag about how big my dick is and if they want to share sometime, clean my apartment and iron my clothes with no prompt, and initiate sex 90% of the time. They treat you like a damn king when they are attracted to you and want to please you but they treat you like a damn homeless man if they find you undesirable.

[–]readordie1329 points30 points  (2 children) | Copy

Couldn't word this any better. Go with your gut always. You'll know if she wants you.

[–]blister3337 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

It’s night and day when it happens and makes you realize how much of a time waster other chicks are

[–]U-9410 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

There's a weird balance of having your ego in check to be confident but also checked out when she fucks other people.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

this hits too close to home. ima delete the 3 sluts im talking to. I for sure am not their top option. time to move on to others.

[–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro21 points22 points  (0 children) | Copy

BUT MALLARDCOVE, I don't want to withdraw. I want her.

For guys with oneitis: just let it go.

You can't fight the law of the nature.

Somehow she already decided.

You choose attractive girls, the same way she choses attractive men. What's attractive to you? Would you like a tall one, a short one, busty one, thicc one? That's your genes, that's nature at work.

On her side, nature did its part. Just let it go. If you just went, raped her and impregnated her, chances are that probably there would be something wrong with the children. Or at least - probably - they would perform worse when compared to Chad's kids she wants so badly.

You don't get all outrageous when someone says "be eco friendly, respect the planet". Solar energy's cool because it seems so right thing to do.

Just do another thing. Let that girl go and look for more compatible girl. In her mind, she's already taken.

And while you're at it, send some "thank you" to the OP. Solid post, bro.

[–]ThexNoobx127 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Nothing but cold, hard, facts. This is one of the best pieces of advice I've ever seen given on this sub. Not sure why guys even bother wasting time on a bitch who is either giving one to two word responses or taking over an hour to fucking respond to their text (unless they're extremely busy at work) lol. Like you stated females are glued to their phone, it's literally an extension of their body, so as soon as you text them they damn sure see that notification. Regarding the abundance mentally that also is something that guys "need" to master. We, as men, are conquerors and were never designed to just have one women and live happily fucking after lol. The more females you have on your rotation, the less fucks you give and that alone provides peace of mind in itself.

[–]Frich39 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

This should be taken with a grain of salt obviously. I understand where you are coming from but you every woman is different so to speak. I go out with a few attractive women on the weekends and they are pretty open about this kind of shit. One pretty hot hispanic chick I went to eat sushi with said that friday night she fucked her ex fling, saturday fucked her "boo thang" (aka her beta bucks), and the sunday fucked her ex fling again. She's 29 and looking for a meal ticket but still eats a little dick on the side. She referred to herself as a "slut" for doing such things, but in the end, she had more than one option. I guess what I'm saying is that just because you aren't option number one, doesnt necassarily mean you cant still fuck. Just keep in mind that you shouldnt treat her like your number one either, and if the night comes where you get a chance to hit, put it down, and she will call you when her and her "boo thang" are on bad terms.

[–]squarehead932 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I second this. I've managed to hook up with a couple tinder girls I hadn't talked to in months due to a perceived loss of interest but just out of the blue decided to text. OP is right though that you can only do that from a position of IDGAF and abundance. I'd already written them off but I was cleaning out my contacts and figured what the hell. The difference is I had nothing to lose.

OP's advice is sound for anyone that has a habit of getting oneitis or needs to constantly text someone. You're better off erring on the side of moving on and forgetting girls who give off signs of you not being their priority.

[–]fartingaround7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Guess ive never been a top option

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Experienced this once, so I know it's 100% true. I was BP at the time, so I was in an LDR. I could call any time, whether it was 5pm, 11pm, 1am, or 4am where she was, and she'd drop everything to pick up. This is going to be my new goal for every relationship I'm in. Life's too short to be second best.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (7 children) | Copy

Great post. So what do you do if this is an LTR? Avoid contact until she texts, then be slow to respond/ seemingly disinterested?

[–]heartbroken_nerd2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy

Why are you in such an LTR?

Oneitis? Lack of abundance?

Get this through your thick head:

The only reason for a woman to be in your life is if she makes you happy.

That's the only reason in my eyes at least.

I recently saw a video related to this topic with a bit different perspective:

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

I had plates. I cut them off (for now) because I wanted to try a relationship with one person. Got tired of fucking chicks with no depth to the interaction. Seeing how well/ how long I can maintain one. If I don't enjoy it, I will discontinue it.

But the question is, say you happen to be married. Your wife doesn't text you. What do you do?

[–]heartbroken_nerd8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy

Preface: Short answer is: Have standards and hold every woman in your life to those standards. The ones that do not match your standards are to be dropped or ignored (put in the back burner).

Firstly, you shouldn't be married in the first place.

Since "don't get married" is such a mantra around here, you probably have heard it before.

BUT in the (quite common) circumstance that you chose to ignore this golden advice and got married anyway...

Well, LTR and marriage is the same except marriage the woman has a loaded gun and is pointing it at you, whilst you're telling her not to pull the triger.

In LTR you have easier time walking away.

The principle in both cases is the same:

Have mistresses (plates) that you can fuck if the woman you're in relationship with doesn't want to do it.

If you are not in an immediate need or do not desire to fuck something RIGHT NOW, then just chill. Work on your mission, go lift, improve yourself in the meantime as she takes time to respond. If you're anxious about the reason she's not replying to you i.e. what if she cheats, that means you care too much for no reason. If she wants to cheat, she will. Nothing you say to her will change it. So stay vigilant and observe... Be ready to walk away if you are disrespected.

It really is that simple if you want to fuck a girl and she doesn't comply, then find another one to fuck.

Why else would you stress about her not sending you a message on her own or not replying when you message her first? Do you need that validation? Kill the beta and the desire to act feminine. You don't need her to respond.

Oh, and if she doesn't respond to something that ACTUALLY matters (some kind of matter of life and death), then she disrespected you, meaning you demote her (if possible) or walk away (if you can no longer demote her any lower).

It's never about her, it's always about you. Remember this and you will know what to do/what the answer to any situation related to relationships is. Respect yourself and your time. Find your mission. Mission comes first.


Women are a lagging indicator of success, meaning that the 'successes with women' you get from chasing them in and of itself are very limited in comparison to what kind of 'successes with women' you can get if you become a top 20% male through lifting, financial situation, getting your style in check, improving your game by practicing a lot on many women...

TL;DR/reiteration of preface

It's not about what she did or didn't, it's about who you are and what you want in life.

If you want peace of mind then ignore the hoes that don't provide you with peace of mind, simple. If you text her and she doesn't respond, but you would like your woman to respond at a moment's notice, then she doesn't meet your STANDARD.


[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

That was the most thorough response to a question I've ever asked on here, and you make great points. I appreciate it man

[–]heartbroken_nerd0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

No problem, I hope I could help at least a little bit.

Most people here won't apply the advice this sub gives anyway.

Even I, myself, struggle with sticking to what I told you above.

Gotta fight the programming/kill the beta every day and gotta stay sharp and vigilant, nobody cares if we fail so we have to keep pushing ourselves to get up no matter how many times we fall down.

The only alternative is suicide.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

True that. Amazing how quick one reverts to beta shit. I've been applying TRP for 5 years at least, and still have to be very firm and gangster with it or I'll relax my boundaries and lower my standards. Putting myself 100% at #1 is the hardest part. Getting better every day, but not there yet. Just gotta keep drilling it in and make the proper choices every time no matter how it feels.

[–]trollreign7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy

Good post, there is just one thing missing.

If you are the top option of a girl, it is quite likely that your SMV is 1-2 points higher than hers. Women date up, men often date down. Almost all 7.5-8/10 women will have a 9 guy "willing" to fuck them. If you are a 7/10, it's highly unlikely that you will be the top option of an 8/10. That girl that gives you the obvious signs that you are her top option is going to be a 6/10.

This does not invalidate this post but puts a huge dent in it. The reason why men try to "demonstrate value" by great "text game" is because they are trying to fuck women who are at their SMV or above, and those women almost always have higher SMV men as options.

You suggest men should stop texting this one particular girl and go game other women instead, for whom he is the top option. I agree with you. But you also need to add that that other woman, for whom you are the top option, she is of lower SMV. Bitter pill, I know.

[–]615bachelor0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You are 100% correct. You should write your own post.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Ughh..I dont wanna do ugly chicks. Its hard being attracted to lower SMV girls

[–]Zech4riah0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I hope you are right because that would mean that my SMV is 1 or 2 notches higher than I think myself.

Additionally, if we add SMV's subjective cousin called "perceived SMV" to the equation - this gets way more complicated.

[–]lookoutitscaleb10 points11 points  (4 children) | Copy

As I started to raise my SMV I fell for a woman, we had many of the same values, and she was pretty. She and I connected well in the beginning but I started to catch the feels and in turn the OneItis. I could see her pulling away and eventually she would just outright not respond to my texts. 3rd time she did not respond to my text I hard next her.

About a month after not hearing from her she hits me up 4 days in a row using different tactics to get me to respond. I don't, and run into her at her work. She tries to make it awkward "Long time no seeeeeee". I ignore it and go about my experience, flip it on her, and maintain frame. She texts me the next day at 1 am asking to fuck. I was already in bed and I don't have time for someone like her at the point in my life that I have reached.

TL;DR: You have to pretend to forget about her, then you actually forget about her.

[–]lossofmercy13 points14 points  (3 children) | Copy

This is probably the most annoying aspect of dating today. I am not a guy who wants/needs to bang a lot of girls, it's not very important to me. I like going after one girl who is attractive and one I "click" with (IE, easy humor, charm, wit, intelligence, etc.). But they always tend to pull away rapidly if you start catching feelings. So I have to behave in a way that I personally don't enjoy, which makes this whole thing a chore.

Anyway, just venting.

[–]squarehead931 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I hear you. I'm in the same boat. I enjoy casual sex but I've never had an interest in getting a new lay every week and racking up a huge N count if it means putting other goals of mine on hold. And I agree on needing to click with someone. Every FWB or fling I've ever had was someone I could at least have a solid conversation with.

And I've definitely been there with catching feelings. In my experience girls fuckzone guys too, and almost expect you to be an uncaring fuckboy and get weird when you get serious.

[–]lookoutitscaleb1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Completely. The book of Pook said it best. When I started gaining weight and raising my SMV women just want me for my body. I genuinely enjoy spending time with people who I am in sync with. Sadly the majority of people I click with tend to be hippies that turn out to be brain dead and think meditating and yoga is the only necessity to self betterment. (It helps and is a tool but it's not the end all be all).

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

I typically won't even fuck with a number until I've gone out and gotten a few more so that I don't fall into this trap. It's a numbers game pure and simple. You can solidify your interactions and get "better" numbers, but at the end of the day, as OP stated, it's dead obvious if she's into you or not. If she isn't reciprocating then drop it and find someone else. More advice should focus on doing this instead of shit like "how to make her want you more!".

Let's be honest, you should definitely back up your numbers with solid game to maximize your chances, but 85% of the time, if she is in the right state of mind you can win with shitty game because you're in the right place at the right time.

[–]TheDevilsAdvokaat4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Good post. Very true, and I've definitely noticed the difference with different girls.

Another thing to keep in mind his, even if you ARE a girl's top option and all is fine...she will one day meet an even better option, and suddenly her behavior towards you will change. In addition, she may even become resentful towards you if you are married, because now she feels "stuck" with you - instead of being a prize, you are now a consolation prize.

This can explain those sea-changes of emotion you will experience with a woman over the course of a relationship. Sadly, once she has started to see you as number two or worse things never get better.

[–]Natchili4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Every time I actually talk with red pilled people they seem like betas that watched a few to many pick up artist videos and are really bad at what they try to describe or do.

[–]ajayhemant4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Absolutely true. Women are like candles. They give you light long enough and you only know it's over when the candle finishes. They accumulate your beta points at the back of their mind. What you felt like light switch might have been a long buildup.

Thus only advise to the novice : Never become complacent. Women move on like share market collapse. You know when it happens but it always take long to build up.

[–]betabran[🍰] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

They accumulate your beta points at the back of their mind

This hits so close to home

[–]surfandturfbaby1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This literally just happened to me, was noticing something was off on Tuesday when she didn´t want to hang out, yesterday I knew she was with my friend group and she didn´t invite me. Regularly was always initiating contact, the last time we saw each other she gave me a blowjob so I thought she was very attracted. No idea what I did wrong but cutting contact is the only choice we have and it stings.

[–]heartbroken_nerd3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I repeat - when her phone vibrates, when it makes a ringtone, she picks it up, gets excited and gets a dopamine rush, hoping its her top option. Then she sees that its you(not her top option) and disappointment washes over her brain. She then begins to associate you with disappointment each time this happens(negative reinforcement), killing your value in her eyes.

Damn, this is such a powerful truth. It pierced my soul, even though I've known this on some level for over a year now.

[–]Satou42 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Really needed this one today. Need to expand my net.

[–]SheepWaker2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I wasn't my gf's top option... ever. 7 years, just got a brutal red pill . This shit kills me, the last 3 years we had sex maybe 30 times. She smashed other guys more than that in 3 months, i can see it. With little effort and no support.. We done she has no respect for me, and she never will again. She may say she did the last 3 years, but now it's obvious i was a fucking chore.... She didn't even look forward to fuckin me...

[–]hritzmane2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Dude, you couldn't be more accurate with this post. I hope everyone reads this and learns something from it. You're blunt as fuck but completely fucking logical. Life is hard, fuck the girls that don't give a shit and stop wasting time

[–]lehappyjuice2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Pure black pill post.

Basically be hot, be attractive and capitalise on that fact. If no woman has you as her 'top option' then ignore her.

Well thats exactly what Ive been doing for years, since I was 15 (the time when I've figured it all) and of course I get no sex

[–]Vitamin_Red0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Used to be in the same situation. I don't like it, but the reality is that you have to chase the girl - at least initially. After you've fucked, you let them chase you. Of course, that is only if she shows you some interest. Don't try to court(chase) a girl that doesn't give you the green light to do so (IOIs).

[–]lehappyjuice2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Well and what am I saying?

If no girl gives you any 'green light' or IOI then you are better of ignoring them. And you get nowhere

[–]Grimsterr2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Well, whether you're her top option or not, I can guarantee you're not her ONLY option, and even if you're her best option, that's not even close to a guarantee that you're her chosen, or exclusively chosen, option.

[–]Neropax1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The negative reinforcement bit is very interesting.

Maybe gaming passively through social media(assuming she gives a shit to actually check your status) with the use of dread/pre-selection, is the only way to digitally rake in a specific crush or whatever. Basically just exercise abundance like is mentioned in OP.

Good stuff man!

[–]Jesusswag4ever1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is gospel if you aren’t trying to punch above your weight class. But you have limited time so OP excellently addresses how to get the mostest from the leastest. I see a lot of truth but I wouldn’t run it all like this. Flip a coin twice if she’s really hot, and if you get heads twice put in the effort. Other %75 put in the numbers game. Most importantly though, stay disciplined, and make sure the long shot isn’t taking more than %25 of your time.

[–]Sc3m0r1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

My problem is that I live with knowing that I'll never be the top option, so I just keep my social media mouth shut, but then I often drink out of loneliness and drunk me fucks sober me over and writes/calls people. It's fucked up, I know.

[–]SnatchWhistle1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I am working a few new prospects. I am really digging one. And one is all over my nuts, to the point that it is annoying.

I needed to see this. Really helped me out.

Thanks for helping me see where I was being a faggot.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is awesome,

This shit also can happen in a LTR

[–]Pakirambo0001 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is happening to me right now actually my situation is a bit different since I left the country for training but still its clear I am not her top priority last night I called 2 times and she said she was with her girl friend sent me some snaps of them together having fun . Then a screenshot of a massage saying that her friends /friend likes her . I didn't respond and went to the gym at 2 am came back home at 4 am went to sleep woke up at 8 am for work . I haven't texted or called today she sent me some snaps on SC but I didn't really respond to any of them I read this post in the morning feels like it's meant for me . Thank you

[–]Prophets_Prey1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Reminds me of an older post, if she isn't a fuck yes, then she's a no.

[–]cptgoatsack1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Once you've been with a woman who sees you as your top option you won't want to be anything else. I've had women beg me to come over to their place, prepare me dinner and suck my cock and fuck on the first date.

[–]gtzgoldcrgo1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Many women don't have oneitis, and some just like to play hard to get, also this depends wether you are a good option for her or not, for example you can be attractive for her but there can be a more attractive man that is her top option, but i do believe you can be her top option if you show a better game that the other dude, but only if she also finds you attractive.

[–]Rollo_Mayhem31 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Can not emphasize the OP's astute observations. My mantra is that people, in this case women "acts towards things they value" If she is not hitting you up or responding to you, it's a sign, a very clear sign.

They'll be chicks at bars waiting for their booty call from the guy they are obsessed with. Sure you have a chance but once that call comes in, she is gone. So you might be tempted to think you can get her next time. Well the better play is to create your own bullpen of girls rather than worry about the one that isnt showing interest.

Hence the soft next..

[–]Mattreddit760-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

This whole thing could have been said in one sentence lol

[–]camelCaseOfBeer0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I love this post. We all need to learn how to walk away. Women can sense if you’re truly willing to walk away at any moment. They’ll do everything you want them to do.

This current plate literally told me I could do anything sexually that I wanted with her. This was after I, tactfully, let her know that I couldn’t be her BF.

As I typed this she just asked me out on a date for July 4th. She does all the legwork. And I get everything I want.

[–]newName5434560 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Insulting part is when women try to sell it to betas that "being top option" is irrelevant and only thing that counts is their current relationship and "future together".

[–]1TRPKiddo0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Practicing an abundance mentality is key in these situations. Get her little chubby hamster wheezing.

[–]GoldAri70 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Mallard, this was a very insightful post. Thanks for sharing.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Does this not contradict hypergamy?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I hate a lot of this sub because it can get so douchey and image-obsessed that it becomes toxic, but, this is 100% fucking correct. If a woman is genuinely interested in you then you are gonna know. Anything in between are all the dudes who think the friend zone exists when in reality it just means she doesn't want to fuck you.

[–]The_subtle_learner0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Good post that initiated some interesting chains of thought.

[–]TheEnglishman280 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I have seen self depreciation ruin things for guys who are fresh in a relationship.

That one point alone is gold, never neg yourself early on before a relationship or in a fresh one.

Never say shit like,"I don't know what she sees in me" or "I am lucky to have her".

I have seen guys say shit like that just after dating a little regularly and they end up getting dumped.

In fact, there was this one poor sap who posted both of those things on social media and his chick dumped him and started fucking his best friend.

Don't do that shit.

[–]greatamericancities0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Great stuff. Thanks for covering all the objections, in advance.

I love calling girls out on their bad behavior, even or especially the most minor infractions. If you are her top option the response will be one way. If not, it will be the other way. Either way, you will know.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Abundance mentality women don't want what they can easily get they like a challenge as much as men

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you for this OP. Was about to text something I could not come back from.

[–]jonny470323990 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Just strive to be the best you. Just do you and everything else will fall in to place.. Dont over complicate shit

[–]apost540 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

This girl said I was hot tho AND she instigated... but she's also avoiding me. I'm doing an okay job at negging her and I'm getting better at push/pull, but since now she's pulling a lot of the shit mentioned in the first paragraph should I withdraw? She also has a ton of shit to do for a big event in a few days so I feel like it's not about me personally...

[–]Agrees_withyou0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

The statement above is one I can get behind!

[–]MrChuckSharts 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy

I knew a girl who was into me (in hindsight) but still took time to respond, though she made sure her responses were long and well worded. Didn't want to show she was into me.

I think we must keep in mind the other two possibilities:

  1. She's new and/or hesitant

  2. She's into you but is playing hard to get in order to get your full attention.

In which case, I guess OP is right. By withdrawing, you'll let her know that she has to amp up her game if she wants you and sure enough, she'll reach a breaking point where either she gives up or if she's genuinely interested, reverts to the form op mentioned.

[–]askmrcia0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

A girl can be into you but at the same time you can still not be a top option.

[–]-DoW-0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Excellent post.

I met a girl on a dating app a couple weeks ago, before moving back to the city. I know I am her top option but I'm not sure how this has happened. I made several beta mistakes, including a chat about depression that I had a couple years ago. During some flirting the other day, she said she was glad I told her (?)

Despite these mistakes she is super interested and wants to meet up. I've just moved into a new house though so logistics aren't working at the moment (I've had to be in for deliveries etc etc - the house is unfurnished).

[–]trentreznor950 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This really pounded some sense into me.

[–]unjoined0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

One of the best posts I saw on trp. Thanks brother.

[–]WarViper13370 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I wish I could give this more than one up vote.

[–]ourob0ross0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Its all about height, jawline , cheekbones, eye shape and hairline. lol

[–]JohnDick2k0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I had a simillar situation with a girl at the party. She was hitting on me hard, and then asked me to get her a drink, I was also too drunk to operate with my player mindset, so I just said no. After that she turned around and stopped giving me attention. So I just walked off and started talking with other girls. Next day I tried to text her to see if she went cold in 1 sec for real, and actually she did. Somewhere in my subconcious I knew about the thing you wrote about, but still I wanted to know... stopped talking to her once she wasn't too receptive. At least I kept my dignity. Cheers boys.

[–]troutmask960 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I've been messaging back and forth with several gals on Tinder/Bumble this week and went as far as arranging a meetup with one of them last night, and she flaked out on me. I'm going to send her one more message today to see if we can get down tonight, and if I don't get an acceptable response I'm going to ice her.

On the other hand, I've got another gal who has been messaging me very frequently, and when I decided to put her on hold for a couple of days (this one seems like more of a LTR gal and I'm recently divorced and I want to stay in hookup phase for a very long time) she actually sent me a text bluntly saying, "are you going to ask me out"? I'm pretty clearly her top option, and the difference between these two interactions is night and day.

[–]1319Skew0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Everything about this is solid advice and is basically side bar 101. Thanks for the reminder.

I'd like to add one thing. Don't ask a girl out. Tell her you're taking her out and give her options around what works best for YOU with her consideration in mind.

If she constantly turns you down (2-3x MAX) without giving you an alternative, then next her. She's not interested.

[–]Redpillandrew0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Great post, great format. When sidebar?

[–]Rommel05020 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

TRP at its core is an exercise in understanding market forces.

This post is another example of that.

[–]Red902100 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This should be in the sidebar.

[–]GoToStudy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

What is the use of withdraw when you can just keep looking others and not become too attached? I'm new at TRP, and sure that this does good to me, nevertheless.

[–]Zech4riah0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Harsh cold truth there, I think most of us wish it wasn't true but it is.


There is some exceptions with really shy and introverted girls but they are really rare so they are irrelevant in the broader picture.

[–]iamanalterror_0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Great post. The only point I'd add is that if she's your oneitis, put her somewhere else and just fully forget about her, because you've already fallen into her frame. Any effort you spend pursuing a oneitis will be too much, because you're too attached.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

All very good advice. Of course, this is all negated if you have more than one option anyway. As you end up automatically doing the above because there simply isn't enough time in the day to respond to all of them, and the ones you aren't on the top of their mind, you don't even notice, because you have multiple others who are.

So like I said, you'll automatically do the above... Whose mind aren't I on the top of again, which one was that again?

Now, that's the attitude you need to take...


[–]apatel2150 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I typically stay off the sub during the weekend. And coming off this weekend, this post being the first i read today, is exactly what i needed. thank you OP

[–]Dawnguards0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thats is very nicely worded.

[–]Shredderick4200 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This resonates with my past encounters. One thing that I have noticed in previous relationships is that when I dont seem to be the top option, I have always thought that I need to do something about it, I need to do more, suprise her, be romantic etc and guess what, it didnt help. Withdrawing attention is the key. Good post it is.

[–]eyewant0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

rationing her attention.

Women are almost naturally strategic

[–]Pastelitomaracucho0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is the kind of shit that was hard to swallow years ago...

Eventually it just comes so fucking naturally, even if you haven't ever read this sub, just spending enough time with women and people in general will get you to this point... TRP just accelerates the process.

[–]thedaynos0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

i backburnered a girl for almost exactly a year. had a huge crush on her but she "just got out of a relationship" and "wasn't ready". we became friends on facebook and i liked her pics and we commented on each other's shit. thing is, i had been dating, a lot. dating apps and just meeting girls around town. so much that i didn't give a fuck when i saw this girl post a pic a few months later with another guy. in fact i "liked" the pic cause she looked cute.

then one day almost a year after meeting her, she came to a house party of mine. i had just gotten back from a bar crawl where i got 2 numbers. and i had another girl at my party who was there for me and she brought a few cute girls with. she could tell a) she wasn't my top option and b) i didn't give a fuck about any of them, including her.

to my completely unexpected surprise, she took my phone and put her number in. the following saturday night into sunday morning and into sunday night was a fuckfest w no rubber.


withdrawing works. sometimes. but yes, only if you're practicing abundance. because if I wasn't seeing other girls, i might have messaged her on fb or deleted her as a friend when I saw her with the other guy. I kept her around and it paid off. It doesn't always work this way but fucking her brains out that night was one of the most accomplished feelings I had at the time and I remember it fondly. I kicked it with her for a few months and that's the end of that story.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is a solid post. Let's assume for the sake of argument, that you are not her top option; fine. You are partly to blame if your game wasnt on point. Attraction, rapport etc not there. Can you swing it? Perhaps. If you did everything and still its not on, its not on. But at times, I think alot is to do with game not being on point.

[–]BraindeadIQ0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Still swalloing the pill, But i was texting this girl and having sex with her, Often after gym i would meet up with her only to recive a blow job. She would snapchat me almost all the time, I didn’t respond to all of them. I just responded when i wanted like blow job or sex. But slowly she became creepy, clingy and annoying. But now reading this post i guess i was her top notch and she had oneitis for me and i jut liked her for the sex and blow job.

[–]Chad_bisceglia0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

So fucking true.. I remember finding a girl on snapchat I completely forgot about on the bottom of my friend list, I was bored and started talking and she was so invested it was crazy.. I could say literally anything

[–]Chad_bisceglia0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

So fucking true.. I remember finding a girl on snapchat I completely forgot about on the bottom of my friend list, I was bored and started talking and she was so invested it was crazy.. I could say literally anything

[–]itzdjengo0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Wish I saw this post one year ago, where I was one BP bitch. And exactly in this particular situation.

Great post 🙌

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

What if I was her top option for 5 years? We even get married, and then another guy comes in the play. How would that go?

[–]sanitypanacea0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

thank you. this is fucking amazing. i have become a top option and in my unplugging I see the joy this knowledge brings.

[–]dewzahundred0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Really need this right now

[–]therealjohnfreeman 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy

BUT MALLARDCOVE! It's self deprecation, not depreciation.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Unsure if sarcasmz or not, but deprecation and depreciation are both words with different meanings. Pretty sure OP purposely used the latter.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I've gotta say it, guys. In my experience women are much better at handling this than men. There are reasons for this, of course. I've seen so many men hammer away at the same girl who clearly just isn't interested. We have to realise that sometimes it's just a no go and move on, but so many men become obsessed with a closed door. Just move on and find a door that opens. She's not that special and you're wasting your time.

Oh, and don't let a closed door make you bitter. I've seen a couple of guys lose their minds and become angry and spiteful over a closed door. It does nothing but hurt them and when other women see it/hear about it it's pretty unattractive.

Also, appreciation often goes downhill. If you weren't her top choice at the start you won't be throughout your relationship even if you do get her. Red flag for cheating.

Oh yeah, great post OP.

[–]room_303-4 points-3 points  (6 children) | Copy

"You are the prize" might be at the top of the most bullshit lines from The Rational Male. (and there is plenty)

You could either James Franco or average, fit, have a job/make ok money, have a place - but still you have to become some well read circus clown that goes out in public does these fancy moves, uses power words and NLP, "approach 10 women" brah, lift brah - in the delusion you're the prize - Yet no women approach you

[–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove[S] 13 points14 points  (5 children) | Copy

This reads like something I would see in the Incel subreddit or the Incel 2.0 Subreddit(MGTOW).

When they say "You are the prize" they aren't saying that you are going to be constantly approached by a hoard of 9s and 10s.

What they are saying is not to take a shit deal. If a girl isn't treating you like the prize, forget about her, to hell with her, go find one(or several) who will.

but still you have to become some well read circus clown that goes out in public does these fancy moves, uses power words and NLP, "approach 10 women" brah, lift brah

All conjecture. This is my biggest problem with PUA, is that they think getting women is some 12 step program of doing all these overt/covert actions and getting all these readings/signals and all of that. None is true and I never implied that. I do agree you need to lift and approach, though.

You sound bitter, its no wonder you don't get approached. Women probably see it in you. A man still needs to do the approaching, but if your shit is on point enough, you'll get approached by women and/or their friends every now and then.

[–]michaelmindset3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

Ah, hating on the mgtows again. LOL...if you’re the same dude that made the tinder post, I’ll just say have fun with your drone and dumping all your time into women AND writing about them on reddit. It’s funny because “Incel 2.0”...try unplugging again brutha. Sure MGTOW attracts some incels, but that’s a fuck ton better than seeing them drive their car through a crowd of people.

But NO...”you need the pussy” so I can sell you my content...fuck out of here. Pussy in 2018: I’ll take it if I’m her “top option” but I sure as hell ain’t trying to be her “top option”. I’m my own top option. Health, wealth, happiness OVER PUSSY.

[–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

MGTOW are faggots. There, I said it

[–]michaelmindset-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Call us FGTOW then, it hurts our feelings so bad lol...remember this fellas, guys like this will make you think that your masculinity is synonymous to how wet you make the pussy, wrong...that’s the gynocentric definition. Masculinity will always be a man defining his life by his own standard, regardless of society or female praise. Go your own way.

[–]room_303-5 points-4 points  (1 child) | Copy

But mallardcove you are wrong.

[–]heartbroken_nerd2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

You really proved your point right there with your elaborate explanation of why and how OP is wrong.

Oh wait...

[–]redditster00-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Great post I agree with almost everything but I'm not sure about "When you are her top option... She will respond immediately to your texts, initiate conversation all the time, and always be available".

I don't do any of these with my top option. I don't respond immediately to texts, initiate conversation all the time, and am not always available. Maybe it's just a vain hope that I have but I'm trying to imagine myself in a woman's position and trying to justify how I could still be her top option. What do you think?

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