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NYTimes on Falling Sperm Counts - Links to TRP, Get's a lashing from Roosh, then peddles fake news on Soy. Lots to unpack here.

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July 27, 2018
120 upvotes

This is probably the most fun I've ever had reading the NY Times. If you haven't read this yet, check out this archived version of the article here.

The author predictably takes a condescending tone towards men and their little guy problem with a video of men crying at the top of the page and sarcastic bullet points such as:

  • Men are testing their sperm at home in tiny CENTRIFUGES — and dosing up on testosterone!
  • Start-ups and doctors have good news: Male anxiety is treatable.
  • Don’t cry, soy boy — just get out of the Jacuzzi.

The author sources theredpill as well as Rollo Tomassi as manosphere spokesmen, but the best quote - by far - was from RooshV:

"Daryush Valizadeh, who runs The Return of Kings, a men’s rights site, called the situation “a biological crisis” and one that women struggle to understand.

“Tell your editor to stop being an idiot and reassign the article to a man,” he wrote in a direct message on Twitter. “Then get in touch with me.”

And what's a NYTimes piece without a little fake news? She quickly dismisses the soy:low-T connection as simply a myth, even though this has not been shown to be true. 1 2

The truth is, there's a lot of varying factors that might cause low sperm count but there just isn't much push to figure it out. The author suggests simply not using hot tubs as an actual "cure" but the problem isn't as simple.

I did a little research on the hot tub theory and it's simply not that clear.

Many articles suggested hot tubs are the primary cause of infertility in men, while others insist that hot tubs aren't hot enough to kill sperm that have already been produced, but simply pause sperm production which requires lower temperatures until you are out. Otherwise, a hot shower itself would be killing our sperm counts every day.

Experiments with heat and male sperm counts were performed, finding that temperatures of 107F and greater had actual effects. Most hot tubs don't go higher than 104F.

(I don't have the sources handy on this one but I'll post them later if I can find them).

Once again, male issues are given exactly the reverence our culture and society believe they deserve, and our soy-boy nation gets another pass as we self medicate Western Civilization into extinction.


Post Information
Title NYTimes on Falling Sperm Counts - Links to TRP, Get's a lashing from Roosh, then peddles fake news on Soy. Lots to unpack here.
Author redpillschool
Upvotes 120
Comments 58
Date 27 July 2018 04:05 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/51672
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/92dso9/nytimes_on_falling_sperm_counts_links_to_trp_gets/
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Red Pill terms found in post:
soyRolloRoosh Vtestosteronethe red pillmanosphere
Comments

[–]InhabitantOfOddworld132 points133 points  (12 children) | Copy

Personally, the hot tub shit shows how out of touch the corporate lamestream media really is.

Who the fuck has a hot tub? Or can afford one? Never mind use it so frequently that it creates an actual chronic effect on your sperm count.

Next up on the NYT, eat cake if you can't afford bread.

[–]Omnibrad31 points32 points  (4 children) | Copy

It’s not that the mainstream media is out of touch. They are very in touch with their target audience. You are not their target.

Their entire purpose is simply to give a plausible excuse while whatever is causing this biological crisis continues unabated.

[–]InhabitantOfOddworld3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

Their entire purpose is simply to give a plausible excuse while whatever is causing this biological crisis continues unabated.

This is precisely why I say they're out of touch. It's not plausible.

[–]Omnibrad1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

In the mind of their target audience it is.

Besides the main point was to say “nah soy doesn’t do anything.” It wasn’t their emphasis, but it was the point.

[–]BlackCraneStoic0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Has it ever occurred to you that this is what they want? That NYT is in bed with Big Brother while the underlying agenda is to decrease the population size?

[–]InhabitantOfOddworld1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Absolutely. The media are just the lapdogs of a malevolent state

[–]ssr40255 points56 points  (1 child) | Copy

I can't afford a hot tub so I just warm my balls up on a hot plate.

[–]HiredMind4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

I used to have a spa. They're not that expensive, unless they seat 20 people. They even have inflatable hot tubs that are under $500, IIRC.

And I used it every night if I could, to alleviate back problems.

[–]InhabitantOfOddworld3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

I used to have a spa

Not saying no one does, I just question the frequency

They're not that expensive

Depends where you live I suppose, I'm a Britbong

And I used it every night if I could, to alleviate back problems.

Fair play. My only point was I don't think the stats for low sperm counts across men throughout the West are sufficiently explained by all those men using hot tubs. I think soy consumption and female hormonal contraception leaking into the public water supply is a better explanation, both biologically and socially.

[–]HiredMind4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Your point is well-taken.

I suspect there are dozens of factors. Personally I think psychology might also be one of them: modern marriage and fatherhood has become a minefield in the west. Perhaps men are subconsciously opting out of it, and that is manifesting itself physically.

[–]anabolic920 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You are completely missing the point, here they used the bath example, but in other places you can find the design of the modern underwear making your ballsack too warm.

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (2 children) | Copy

Hot tubs didn't lower my sperm count. Nude hot tubing actually is why I have my kids.
A lady has to be stress free to have kids too and in the mood... what better way than nude tubing. Also watching boobies floating in the tub is awesome.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Read this as nude tubing (toobing) and busted up laughing

[–]Yheymos-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Read this as 'busted nut laughing' and smirked at the thought of a guy cumming over something as simple as 'nude toobing'.

[–]trp_throwaway_8826 points27 points  (1 child) | Copy

What a linguistic kill shot from Roosh. I'm amused to no end that these retards actually included it in the article as though it makes them look good and him look bad.

[–]zephyrprime0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Props to roosh for not pulling any punches

[–]38942834793410 points11 points  (3 children) | Copy

Not convinced about the soy problem.

These sources say it has little or no effect when soy is consumed in moderation:

- https://archive.is/B8X7t

- https://archive.is/z8j5x

- https://archive.is/DTNBp

This one is particularly interesting, it's a cited paper that claims no effect:

https://archive.is/faEo7

Even Livestrong claims it has no effect:

https://archive.is/084U1

I'd suggest everyone read the material, the OP's then make up your own mind.

[–]Throwawayhelper4200 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Too bad nobody consumes soy “in moderation” since it is processed and in just about every single food product the average man eats, and this has only been the case for the past 25 years or so, since it was genetically modified to survive herbicides and pesticides, causing huge swaths of farmers to switch to it.

[–]3894283479342 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Did you read any of those links? They give guidelines for moderation.

One example was that one 60 year old man drank 3 litres of soy for months. Do you really think the average person ingests that much soy, and so regularly? Most people don't even drink that much water a day, let alone eat that quantity of anything.

So, even if soy is a part of that much of our diet (and I'd like to see you substantiate it with well cited examples), it's highly unlikely it's three litres of it.

Be realistic.

[–]Throwawayhelper4200 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

A 60 year old man is the perfect subject to test normal testosterone and sperm levels...

I’ve read lots of studies stating “soy is OK”, and they all are either funded by the food industry, they don’t have a control group, they only account for eating unprocessed soy but don’t control processed soy ingredients, or they don’t account for whether a person was eating soy products before the study or whether he had low testosterone before the study began and eating raw soy(in addition to all the processed soy already in his diet for years) didn’t lower it more.

[–]EramSumEro19 points20 points  (17 children) | Copy

I'm curious if any of the studies showing soy products to be harmful were sponsored by those with investment in the dairy industry. My gut tells me that milk derived from a bean would have less estrogen and T-limiting effects than milk derived from a lactating cow.

[–]ThaiEscapePlan11 points12 points  (15 children) | Copy

We've been drinking milk (well Africans have) for tens of thousands of years. Soy has been around for a blink of an eye, with no long term testing, and is now in just about every packaged food. What the article fails to address (no surprise) is what are the sperm counts of people who do not eat a western (shit) diet? yes. their sperm counts are still high. It's a conspiracy. a conspiracy of Don't Give a Fuck on the part of big agriculture, big govt and the media. If you want to do something about it, don't eat packaged foods, don't eat fast food, avoid BPAs, soy, don't be obese, etc. Oh yah, and eat full fat milk, cheese and dairy. it's good for you. https://citizen.co.za/lifestyle/fitness-and-health-your-life-your-life/1591003/huge-drop-in-mens-sperm-levels-confirmed-by-new-study-here-are-the-facts/

[–]5121653819 points10 points  (12 children) | Copy

Oh yah, and eat full fat milk, cheese and dairy. it's good for you.

Its junk food. You've been marked to by the dairy industry. Cows produce milk while pregnant, and its full of IGF-1, estrogen, and artery-clogging saturated fat.

[–]ThaiEscapePlan1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

saturated fat does not clog arteries. that is a myth perpetrated by Ancel Keys back in the 60s and promoted by the modern food industry. Eat what our ancestors evolved to eat, not crap invented in the last century that is made in a factory. So no "heart healthy" grains and "vegetable" oils, aka industrial seed oils. We evolved on a relatively high fat diet. but if you want to die early of diabetes, high blood pressure, etc., by all means eat a high carb, highly processed diet.

[–]5121653811 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

saturated fat does not clog arteries.

Yes it does.

https://nutritionfacts.org/2017/10/12/what-a-single-fatty-meal-can-do-to-our-arteries/

In fact you can see what a cardiologist says to his sick patients.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_o4YBQPKtQ

[–]ThaiEscapePlan0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

We can cherry pick studies until the cows come home. (and I drink the milk).

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/317118.php A new editorial published in the British Journal of Sports Medicine says that this notion of saturated fat clogging a pipe is "just plain wrong." 2017

But feel free to browse through this list.

http://healthydietsandscience.blogspot.com/search?q=saturated+fat

[–]itwasonlythewind 1 points [recovered]  (8 children) | Copy

Dumbest shit I’ve read in a long time.

[–]5121653817 points8 points  (7 children) | Copy

Dairy is junk food.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2715202/

A potent link to dairy seems to exist for three hormone-responsive glands. Acne, breast cancer and prostate cancer have all been linked epidemiologically to dairy intake.

The 5alpha-reduced compound 5alpha-pregnanedione (5α-P) present in milk is a direct precursor of dihydrotestosterone and may act through that pathway in prostate cancer,

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16684388

CONCLUSIONS:

These data provide some evidence that variation in childhood milk and dairy product intakes underlies associations of leg length, IGF-I and cancer risk.

https://www.cancercouncil.com.au/21639/cancer-prevention/diet-exercise/nutrition-diet/fruit-vegetables/meat-and-cancer/

Meat and cancer

Cancer Council estimates that in 2010, one in six (or 2600) new bowel cancer cases in Australia were associated with consuming too much red meat and processed meat.

[–]enraged_ape1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

Downright false regarding saturated fat being artery clogging.

Also, DHT is five times more potent than testosterone and produces masculinization effect.

[–]5121653811 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/saturated-fat/

Saturated fat is considered harmful to health. Studies have shown that high saturated fat intake may raise the risk of:

Abdominal aortic aneurysm Alzheimer’s disease Bacterial vaginosis Colon cancer Coronary artery lesions Decreased male fertility Dementia Diabetes Hardening of the arteries Heart attack Heart disease High cholesterol levels Intestinal lining breakdown Kidney problems Non-alcoholic fatty liver disease Periodontal disease Skin aging and wrinkling Stroke 

The meat, dairy, and egg industries have funded studies and undertaken campaigns designed to give the public the mistaken idea that foods with saturated fat are not harmful.

[–]enraged_ape2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Wrong. https://itestosterone.com/saturated-fat-testosterone/

Also, French paradox. Saturated fats are a necessity.

[–]512165381-2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy

I quoted a website by a doctor, and each of his videos are supported by numerous references to research.

You quoted garbage. eg

Generally speaking there are two types of fat, saturated fats–the kind that are solid at room temperature like butter and coconut oil–and unsaturated fats, which are liquid at room temperature–think olive oil.

Olive oil is about 14% saturated fat. That website is nonsense.

[–]enraged_ape2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Lol.

Your source is as good as mine there kid, expert opinion is the lowest form of evidence. As an example, here is a countersource by yes, a doctor - https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/09/22/7-reasons-to-eat-more-saturated-fat.aspx

Here is the proof for your woozy ass to sip on: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/6538617/

Now apply some aloe to your buttplug and wait for your soy to settle 😂

[–]zephyrprime0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

It's only one group of Africans that have been drinking milk. Most africans never developed that technique. Also Humans have only been farming since the end of the ice age and I bet that milk drinking has only been going on for a few thousand years.

[–]ThaiEscapePlan0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

ya. you got me. I fucking love the stuff and I find it helps in the gym. No ill effects as far as I can tell. I'm english-irish heritage but beyond that have never done any testing about allergies. Everyone should do their own research and determine what works for them and what they can live with. If I didnt like beer so much I'd be keto I suppose. check out Dr. Dale Bredesen if you worry about Alzheimer's like I do. (mom has it)

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

My gut tells me that milk derived from a bean would have less estrogen and T-limiting effects than milk derived from a lactating cow.

As opposed to milk from a lactating Female when you were an infant?

[–]djh86017 points18 points  (1 child) | Copy

Does the NYT have a man cover women’s issues?

[–]Wabbajak5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

If the NYT would be aware of its own double standards and contradictions, it wouldn't reflect and address its target audience.

[–]PoppinChlorine13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy

Okay I can get behind a lot of the stuff on this subreddit but this soyboy shit is just ridiculous. You all need to stop losing credibility by convincing yourselves of bad science. And the second article is about a soy protein supplement- not the same as actual soy. Those supplements are pretty much universally regarded as bad, on top of it hard to predict what effects they will have from individual to individual. So that link wasn’t proving shit.

What you SHOULD be worried about is packaged food and processed meat.

Lose the soyboy posturing. It’s not a good look.

[–]Galbert1239 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

You have been stockpiling the content to dump it all on us at once!? I am going to be reading all weekend!

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Sometimes I like to push out a bunch at once to get some new conversations started and nudge the direction of the sub a little.

[–]Nomfwic9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is why I don't watch / listen to any news. News is created for / by women coz women like gossip and gossiping women always attach extra shit to stories to make it more entertaining.

[–]Jonmad172 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Is there any research into excess masturbation and sperm production? It's safe to assume that men masturbate more often now give the availability of porn on the internet. And while regular ejaculation obviously doesn't affect sperm count, I wonder if compulsive masturbation (i.e. multiple times a day until you body can't keep up with production) could that have a long-term effect on your body's ability to manufacture sperm? Sperm is made up of nutrients that aren't infinitely available in one's body.

[–]kjlh99 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

Let them laugh in two decades when all the soy boys go sterile since their testosterone levels are shot. What a fucking disgrace

[–]civilizedfrog2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Lol. I just love how they brushed aside the whole issue by saying men to wear loose pants. Can Title IX be used on the government for spending infinite amount on women's health but just very little on men's health?

[–]Ruby_Red_Pill_Maker4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

This was just awesome until it all went downhill with that hot-tub shit. Its like that aliens comment. Well the pyramids are awesome I wonder how the build them: aliens. Completely freakin disconnected and makes no sense.

[–]Jonmad171 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I love how the article starts off with the notion that "low sperm count can be indicative of many health problems, and can even lead to an early death", and ends with "it's not like we need more sperm anyways." You can only possibly hold those two concurrent thoughts if you genuinely believe that it's okay for men to have health problems en masse.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I had to chuckle when the NYtimes cited another NYtimes article, which didn't even say what the first article said it did.

The end sentence was prophetic "Maybe we just don't need as much sperm" or something along those lines.

You first soyboy.

[–]NormalAndy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I believe you started a war last week?

The 'independent media's are your establishment attack dogs. Now is the time to find your facts on soy, sit and write them down again.

Being in the mainstream press is bad. Sucking each others plums over it is worse.

[–]EumenesOfEfa0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Here is a link to an article about a long term research done at Sinai and hadasa: https://m.ynet.co.il/Articles/4994164

The proof is conclusive.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Hot tubs arent really good for your balls bro. Cold tubs are much, much better for T. I hate hot tubs, to be honest. They are too damn hot. God damnit. I prefer a cold shower any day. Or at the most, a steam room.

[–]unclecrumble0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

If people are bitching about low sperm counts and they own fucking hot tubs I truly hope they can’t reproduce because I don’t feel bad for them

[–]matto6660 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Edgy as fuck you dirty commie

[–]Don_Himself0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

cold bath/shower is the way to go. contrast showers at best.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Haha I can't believe they ran this.

[–]BostonPillParty-3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Lol what a bunch of soy boys



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