Contrary to the accusations, I don't hate Jordan Peterson. I generally support most pro-male figures, even when they're terribly mistaken about major points. I like Milo, even though I disagree with him on religion. I like Jordan even though I disagree with his conclusions that a reversal to pre-sexual revolution times is a genie that can be put back into its bottle.
But I really disagree when somebody is operating in the frame of the feminine imperative and they either don't notice, or worse - don't care.
The lesson this weekend, which many of you chose to ignore or misunderstand, was specifically to address learning to be critical of high-visibility thought "leaders" (for lack of a better term).
The original post I made I think stood for itself. The point in question was JP's insistence that pickup is an inherently psychopathic behavior, and that's because individuals matter. The individual woman matters.
Sometimes I post content like this to take a measurement of the community, to see what, why and how people are interpreting the world around them. And this was a very dissapointing outcome.
Instead of some reasoned comments dissecting his misinformed statements, I got just plain drivel. Ad hominems, accusations that the mods and ECs here don't know shit about women, sex, or the red pill, and whiny concern trollers talking about how things used to be better before people started calling JP on his bullshit.
I gave the community a second chance, perhaps the post was too focused on JP himself, as many people rushed to his defense but the discussion was devoid of any substantive material in regards to the video. So I posted a transcript of the first few minutes of JP's rant. And the results were worse than I could have expected.
Very very few people were able to pick out the issue in JP's reasoning. Instead, many elected to insult me, the mod team, pickup, game, and even the red pill itself.
I'm disappointed, because I believe the sort of content we promote here is designed not only to change your worldview, but also change how you think about things so that you can change your own worldview. You cannot escape blue pill thinking by simply finding another god to worship. You must learn to process information for yourself. You must learn to pick out internal inconsistencies in others' ideologies and ideas.
The fact that there's a pro/anti-JP argument on here is fucking stupid. Because it shouldn't matter who has said anything. If his ideas are good they should stand up to scrutiny. If they are bad, then it is fair game.
A lot of people have reached out to me and asked why we still allow JP content on here, given that a lot of his advice and goals are counter to the established theory we've been refining over the years.
The fact is, ideas must stand up to scrutiny including our own. I see nothing wrong with discussing JP's ideas and comparing them to our own. What is useful, you keep. What is not, you throw away.
But I'm done tolerating any further discussion about the man himself. Because it's clear too many here are unable to process ideas and theories apart from the man, and a discussion of a man is not sexual strategy. This forum is for discussion of man's ideas and theories.
Pickup Artists are Psychopaths.
It should be obvious to anybody who is familiar with TheRedPill (read the sidebar), but the primary problem with this statement is that it operates within the frame of female primacy. It appeals to the feminine imperative and only serves them while hurting men.
REDPILL 101 ALERT: Female sexual strategy is one of selection. Women select. Men are selected. Inherent in this system is the fact that since men must be selected, their strategy must employ persistence and play the numbers for success.
Women, in their capacity to select, must by definition reject most possible suitors to maximize their strategy. Their ability to procreate is limited, and as such, selecting the highest value males is beneficial to her strategy. For her, selecting among many eligible mates means she may eventually need to filter based on more superficial qualities. The story of sexual selection and how it shaped our species (such as secondary sexual characteristics) is a post for another day. If you're not familiar, I recommend you spend some time reading the sidebar.
But returning to my main point... JP uses the phrase "Pickup Artists" as a caricature. The idea that a dude put on some fancy hat and makes a habit of going out and tricking women into fucking them is not only a very outdated reference, it doesn't really touch on how men actually learn and use game to increase their changes with women.
Pickup artistry as is depicted in the media is mostly dead, and in my opinion never really lived. It was a gimmick of sorts, but I don't believe it was as effective as many had bragged about. For some? Sure, maybe they cleaned up. But for many, pickup served as an introduction to one of the most important topics man can learn: GAME.
Game can best be described as understanding and using psychology to best avoid being a complete fucking idiot and fucking up your chances with a potential mate. Game isn't a parlor trick where a woman's panties drop and she's none the wiser. Game is a set of strategies and explicit behaviors that help complete god-dammed social retards from getting in their own way.
And JP is saying quite frankly that he thinks improving on male sexual strategy is psychopathic. That's not because it is. It's because the negative connotation helps push the narrative of the female primacy, and helps grow the influence of the feminine imperative.
Men should not improve their chances with women. Men should abandon anything resembling numbers games with women because each women is special and unique and you must put in high-investment before being considered a possible mate. Do these things, and do not do the other things.
JP is effectively telling boys and men how not to be sexually successful.
This is making no comment on whether you think hookups are moral or not, or whether hookups are even a preferred strategy. Some here don't want to spin plates. Some here also want the wife, two and a half kids, and the white picket fence.
Although I strongly disagree that a traditional marriage can happen or work in today's culture, that is up to you what and how you want to pursue it.
But no matter your goal, you won't get to spin plates, LTR, or anything else if you cannot first attract a mate. And following JP's advice, anything that makes you better at attracting a mate is psychopathic.
Be on the lookout for people framing advice with the feminine imperative
This should go without saying but any time somebody makes an appeal to some greater good or cultural norm that isn't directly addressing your strategy or goals, you should proceed cautiously and ask yourself, who am I serving with this advice?
Can you spot the frame?
- Man up and take care of her child as if he's your own!
- Be the best man you can be.
- Spinning plates is wrong, you should only date one woman at a time.
- Game and pickup is weird and wrong. You should only use "honesty" when meeting women.
The mods have not been banning from these threads, even though our general policy is to remove people who resort to personal attacks. I wanted to finish this exercise in critical thinking before we begin a purge.
We want members to recognize what this exercise was and perhaps rethink how they approached the subject. If you remember hurling insults to other members instead of discussing the merits of the ideas, perhaps now is a good time to make a comment on this thread and discuss what you learned.
But stay on your road of blind denial, ad hominem, and appeals to authority, and you will be swiftly removed. We have a much higher standard of content than that.
That is all.