If guys suddenly stopped asking women out, would women begin chasing men?

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August 15, 2018

(This was a question I recently encountered on Quora. The answer below was written by Lucas Lundstrom, a Quora user, and I found it a very insightful read.)


This, in fact, has been tested large scale.

Japan is in dire national crisis because of this.

The issue is a bit complex, but can be summarized as that the Japanese men gave up on women because it was simply not worth it any more. They were expected to make the first move, pay for things even when the woman earned a good living, be the active part in love making, work double jobs and hardly be home just to meet expectations, give grandiose gifts at many, many days similar to Valentines day around the year, and so on. The women had grown away from the old ways of being considerate, supportive, warm, and kind and were now instead generally much more cold, distant, career driven, demanding, and selfish - but still held up all the demands on men which men had previously filled as a balance. Not 'I scratch your back - you taunt me for not making as much as my brother'.

They found that they could just put their foot down and say no. No more. Sex could be replaced through masturbation with VR and other tools and an advanced pornographic culture, or prostitution. Deep personal conversations, blowing off steam about your manager or best friend could be had through special business who cater to specifically this with trained hostess staff who have regulars. Having your head on someone's lap while watching a movie - also available. Etc., etc. The Japanese culture turned out to be very good at figuring out what little details in a relationship is actually important to us on a deep level, like having someone hold your hand while you are doing thisor listening to you explain how you feel about that, and then making a business of exactly that little niche.

So it happened. The Japanese men at a quite extreme and alarming rate started saying no to marriage. No to girlfriends. No to girls. They did not go into situational homosexuality as a cultural prison sexuality either, at least not in any major scale. Instead they found that with all that free time and available money to spend on anything that made themhappy they could have the worlds most extreme entertainment culture at the tip of their fingers. Games galore! Interactive movies, perverse comics, cool neo-sports, and so on.

So. How did the women react? Did they say "Oh, shit. We done fucked up now… Let's show the men that we are worth it. That we are actually really nice and warm too even if we are more independent than before. That we are loving and kind." No. They started using the term "Sōshoku(-kei) danshi", herbivore or grass-eating men, to condescendingly refer to those who reject the pleasure of the female flesh. They started large scale mocking all these men who refuse them. Claiming that they are not real men , that they are gentle, mild, sissy, closet gay, small boys, etc. This, er, did not get the men to come back. It made other men who saw how the women in large scale culture acted join the herbivores. And now it just spins like this, with the women pushing away the men further instead of chasing after the men.

As of now more than 60% of all men in their 20s are Sōshoku danshi. Here is the wiki for the phenomenon: Herbivore men - Wikipedia

Post Information
Title If guys suddenly stopped asking women out, would women begin chasing men?
Author m4ch1ina
Upvotes 1468
Comments 401
Date 15 August 2018 02:39 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/51931
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/97iry0/if_guys_suddenly_stopped_asking_women_out_would/
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[–]Endorsed ContributorRunawayGrain696 points697 points  (87 children) | Copy

My though is that with 80% of women going for the top 20% of men, these guys are just saying "I'm not in the top 20%, so fuck it." You won't see much traction until later on, when the women in their twenties now start to age out, and want to round up a guy. Either that, or the top twenty percent guys all also bail out.

Claiming that they are not real men , that they are gentle, mild, sissy, closet gay, small boys, etc. This, er, did not get the men to come back. It made other men who saw how the women in large scale culture acted join the herbivores. And now it just spins like this, with the women pushing away the men further instead of chasing after the men.

This is just how any woman reacts when she gets rejected.

There's actually a debate going on, because the Japanese obsession with perfection leads to a lot of waste. Read about some of it here, mostly focused on agriculture. I see that as being at play here too.

Some of my Japanese exchange students had something like abundance mentality above and beyond anything I've ever seen. One had a girlfriend here in the states. He went to her family reunion and found out she had a family member with downs syndrome, decided that shit ran in the family, and dumped the girlfriend on the spot with no qualms.

[–]1Original_Dankster178 points179 points  (44 children) | Copy

80% of women going for the top 20% of men

I think you hit on something important here. As long as women have access to 20% of men, they won't improve their behaviour.

A mental exercise now: What if a portion of those top 20% men started going herbivore / MGTOW as well (which is distinctly possible in Japan, though not happening yet)? Would womens' behaviour change? Perhaps only for those men in particular?

[–][deleted] 86 points87 points  (10 children) | Copy

Even those '20%' type men are being fucked over by women. Just look at Brad Pitt. Women are hardwired to always want better. It's ultimately why they are utterly miserable. Because even when they have chad, they are never satisfied and will constantly test his strength. When he inevitably falls and the betatisation process takes over, he'll just be another simp in her eyes.

But to fall back on what you said. It would take more than just MGTOW for women to change. It's female nature. However, MGTOW is a personal journey of having true mastery over your life. Not being a slave to your biological imperative. Stripping away the manipulation that gynocentrism holds firmly over your life even if you call yourself 'red pill'. Ultimately, men should go their own way for themselves and not to change the current climate.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (9 children) | Copy

Mgtows dont lift weights. If they did, theyd be getting pussy with ease and they wouldnt even be worried about "not being impaired by your biological urges". Its a trend that will die with its creators, because theyll never reproduce.

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (8 children) | Copy

MGTOWs do lift weight just not to get pussy. Because that's a pretty sad life to lead if all you are doing is chasing women. And women are incredibly boring blank canvases.

And you're completely wrong of course. Most MGTOWs are men who have been divorce raped and had their kids taken away from them by family courts.

[–]RedPilledRoaster2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy

Then what the fuck are you chasing? There is literally no other point in life besides reproduction. There is no 'destiny' or 'purpose.' Not to be nihilistic, but you are lying to yourself if you believe there is some greater meaning to being a man besides fucking as many women as possible. MGTOW is just a giant hamster wheel for not getting pussy. I've honestly never fucking understood it because getting pussy isn't really hard to do, especially if you lift.

Once you're Chad, every fallacy and hamster wheel becomes blatantly obvious. And MGTOW is just that. A hamster wheel.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Okay this is going to be a long reply because this topic I'm passionate about:

You would be right if we wasn't self-aware, smart and evolved from our primitive state. Men more so than women. Without society we certainly would just be purely following our primitive nature to reproduce. Today? We've evolved beyond that. Also though, society has revealed how manipulated we are as men. How enslaved we are to the pussy. How we transform ourselves in the image of women's ideals just to fulfill our biological imperative. And for what? I say, what men have created beyond their primitive nature is absolutely fucking beautiful in comparison to reproduction. You see, there's a reason why men have a strong sense for brotherhood and community. Do you think women do? They follow. Sisterhood is full of back stabbing. I know men back stab but male spaces untouched by women usually last for generations. Men generally get on better. Loyalty is a male trait after all. Something much more evolved than our biological imperative. Whilst I'm not against having kids and the whole nuclear family (we obviously need to reproduce), we also live in a gynocentric society. Currently, the juice is just not worth the squeeze. Feminism and championing women as fucked any inclination of a decent relationship for men. I would say though, that men have always been manipulated. Women are Machiavellian in nature. They realise how easily thirsty men will sell their souls just for sex. The current society has evolved beyond our primitive state though and yet men still make stupid decisions with their hindbrain. It's why we have The Red Pill in the first place. It's not like we get out of marriages and relationships so easily without being financially crippled by the state. Men have been attacked and demonised by society that we've just had enough of their bullshit.

As for sex? Easily had. MGTOWs get laid (as do I). The whole inclination that MGTOWs are some how monk/celibate is a fraction of MGTOWS. A choice that some men make because they are just fucking fed up with the nature of women. And can I blame them? It's very gynocentric to judge men on the basis of how much sex is having. Hence why women just love using the word incel to shame men. MGTOWs are just tired of transforming themselves just to appease women's impossible standards. They are tired of being manipulated and burnt. Women will always bite the hand that feeds them.

So then the other red pill that must be swallowed is that even as 'red pill' you are still the manipulated man. Chasing women is like a drug. You might adhere to be pedestalised as a Chad but like a drug you too will be manipulated by female nature. And to just appease to females standards. To lift to get pussy to satisfy women's overwhelming list of growing standards is an fool's errand. A list that keeps growing and men give in to them and hand their self-worth on a plate. I say lift for yourself and for discipline never for women (even Bodybuilding Misc figured this out years ago) because if Brad fucking Pitt can be dumped and divorce raped. If Jenna Dewan thinks she can get better than Channing Tatum, then it's a rat race that just isn't worth racing.

In conclusion: Women's female nature is pessimistic. They will always want more. Even when they have Brad Pitt. Channing Tatum. They want better. Becoming chad is a fool's errand. And this Chad got fed up with women and started to live his life for himself and went MGTOW. Much happier. You eventually get tired of the drama and bullchit that comes with being with women. You call it shit tests. I call it unnecessary drama and disrespect.

The game is rigged. The prize is shit. And once you actually get laid consistently, you realise all that effort to appease women is a waste of time. A sort of self-actualisation. The real red pill.

You say MGTOWs don't get laid. That they don't want pussy. Well, most MGTOWs come from broken nuclear families. Most MGTOWs are divorced raped. Most MGTOWs are tired of being the manipulated man. MGTOWs are smart. And most MGTOWs have their shit together much more than simps who chase women.

[–]AnInstant 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy

MGTOW is a circlejerk of people who cheat themselves they are somehow better than women so they don't have to do anything and move out their comfort zone. When I accidentally see one of their shit in reddit (esp memes) it's cringe af and I can't help myself but think how miserable these guys are.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

Your comment is ignorant at best. MGTOWs have mostly been successful with women. Majority of MGTOWs have been divorce raped or burnt by being in relationships with women. And we are just tired of their shit. And yes, we are better than women. Tired of giving women credit where it isn't due. Tired of championing and pedestalising women which hasn't been earned. Tired of being manipulated by women and society that only sees men's worth for what they can do and be for women.

MGTOWs are happy as fuck. And yet most married men and guys who tie themselves to women are utterly miserable. But you keep on being the manipulated man.

[–]AnInstant 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy

Yeah you're all so happy you have to spam your sub with silly memes about women. Can't call it IDGAF attitude.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Memes are life though.

And yeah very happy. Part of being happy is being able to vent. That's why SJWs are all so fucking miserable.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

And women are incredibly boring blank canvases.

Yea but their pussies sure feel nice.

[–]CensorThis11138 points39 points  (5 children) | Copy

And this is exactly where I wish TRP would grow into some more wisdom.

People want to pretend like morality and ethics don't matter, well guess what there is a very long and valid counter argument to that.

We have an incredible amount of control over our culture being at the top of the food chain. There are ways we could condition this culture into getting better for everyone, and it would be worth it.

Trickle down economics is a joke because power flows up. That's why our entire civilization has been built on harnessing the power of human slaves. Building up the weakest of us will bring huge benefits to the top.

A perfect example of this is the huge group of disgusting unfuckable women that were in a large part broken by society. Ya'll want to live in the land of milk and honey? Well if you could turn sewage into more honey that would be quite a trick. And considering the direction humanity is headed in, we're gonna have a huge supply of sewage.

We are all connected. Our relationships with others shape the future in ways we will never fully understand. We could still attempt to, though, and maybe even discover that there is a best choice to make.

[–]JJ331410 points11 points  (4 children) | Copy

While I think it’s worthwhile for redpill men to work in collaboration on an organizational level, much can be accomplished with a legion of men, all acting independently, but with redpill knowledge. I’m assuming that not all MGTOW, and RP types are just living in a cabin in the woods, or retreating from occupations that exert some influence on the world. Some people have the potential to be employers, mentors, and work inside the family court system, for instance, acting independently, but with an eye towards checking gynocentrism, and assisting decent and hardworking men improve their stations in life.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

No. No independence, unless you are talking about seperate independent groups of redpill men. To effect any change, any good legion of men must be in a group. Since our agenda is quite controversial and would have spies infiltrate our groups, we would need splinter cells that act as independent groups with the same agenda, each group seperate from each other with an undetectable number of cells. If one cell gets compromised, they have no way of infiltrating the other cells.

[–]FratboyOnReddit 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy

Bro. Me and my friends were just chilling getting high, all 19-22 yr old college kids (I'm the only one in our group of 6+ in the room with RP insights) and were just fucking around shitting on our current president (Trumpo) and how since he, a person completely unfit for the role to lead became president, who anyone could probably run next.

So a friend of mine threw out the idea that if Dwayne Johnson became president he would create an elite society of built men, an elite society with mandatory lifting (friend is an unconscious alpha) and how dope that would be.

Im just in the back processing this shit if we had a redpill leader as president that would be insane.

Its was just a high thought but damn a redpilled president... a man can only dream.

[–]Alexbeav1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Oh Jesus Christ what the absolute fuck did I just read?

[–]BurnYourFlag0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Lol 😂 I’m dead. Your friends sound funny as fuck. To be serious though Donald trump is pretty alpha which is why the media hates him so much, and believing the media is like believing society. Society wants you to be bluepilled

[–]NYCSPARKLE90 points91 points  (16 children) | Copy

What happens is a market equilibrium where (1) the benefits for the top 20% of men are too great to ignore and continue GTOW, and (2) the women (as long as they aren't made to look bad), put up with it.

These benefits are:

- Open harems (recently took a day trip with an ex plate, a current plate, and three of their girlfriends. The plates were bitter and catty for about 4 minutes, and then paid-bonded with "OMG NYCSPARKLE IS SUCH A PLAYER LOL WHATS YOUR INSTA / LET'S TAKE A SELFIE!").

- More threesomes.

- One-way open relationship (main chick / side chicks, where the main chick not only knows, but still chooses to be exclusive to the man).

Side note on the main chick / side chick. AWALT, so can't count on main chick's exclusivity, but can generally expect her to be exclusive in that she is publicly displaying your relationship and fulfills all duties associated therewith. She tells guys she has a BF and doesn't, for example, go on formal first dates, etc. Will still probably cheat on you in Cabo.

Field report: This is the current case in major cities with small # of available, successful men and lots of women. I have a plate that's new to NYC, and she was introduced to this market equilibrium abruptly when she found clothing of another plate at my apartment.

I didn't even strategically respond to her shit test, I just was like, "oh, must be another girl's."

I thought her head was going to explode for about 10 minutes. She vocalized her thoughts / hamstering / anger / jealousy / other concerns all out loud to me while I cleaned my apartment and ignored her, haha.

Her main takeaway, after this, was "Ugh, I have to just be OK with this.." and then, like clockwork, she was aching for me to fuck her (we had already had sex that morning) to which I happily obliged and then gave her a little comfort cuddle (have to give a little in that situation).

[–]Morphs_35 points36 points  (2 children) | Copy

market equilibrium

I like that term (just like your whole post in general). The sexual market place is just economics, supply and demand.

I think ALL men would have to stop approaching for women to become assertive. I heard that in Finland women tend to be more assertive, as by culture there often was a shortage of fuckable men since most of them were fishing on the sea.

So the women that were assertive were the women that would get the guys that stayed ashore. And so this culture came into existence.

[–]RedPilledGodEmperor9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

does a google search of flights to Finland. Books flight.

[–][deleted] 38 points39 points  (7 children) | Copy

Benefits though?

  • Open harems (recently took a day trip with an ex plate, a current plate, and three of their girlfriends. The plates were bitter and catty for about 4 minutes, and then paid-bonded with "OMG NYCSPARKLE IS SUCH A PLAYER LOL WHATS YOUR INSTA / LET'S TAKE A SELFIE!").

I would rather do something productive with my time than waste it on more women. All they offer is sex and after you get over the high from sleeping with multiple women, you realise it's a fools errand. I see no benefit to having an open harem. Unless you cling to scarcity in which getting laid is a difficult feat for you. Pump and dump.

One-way open relationship (main chick / side chicks, where the main chick not only knows, but still chooses to be exclusive to the man).

And all that feeds is your biological imperative and ego. And what benefit do they offer other than their vaginas? Sex is easily had and you don't have to develop open relationships to obtain it. Instead you are dealing with 'shit tests' which really is just disrespect and drama. No thanks.

I thought her head was going to explode for about 10 minutes. She vocalized her thoughts / hamstering / anger / jealousy / other concerns all out loud to me while I cleaned my apartment and ignored her, haha.

Sounds depressing. All it does is feed your ego whilst rob you of your time and energy. The drama is parasitic. Eventually it will grate on you. Again, much better to pump and dump.

[–]NormalAndy12 points13 points  (4 children) | Copy

I was thinking the same. City life seems even more about empty egos than ever before.

As trp prescribes though- enjoy yourself through the decline. Wow, what a decline... This is a good example of sex being held up as the be all and end all, which misses the mark.

[–]NYCSPARKLE1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

This is a subreddit for sexual strategy. Did I miss something?

You are a collection of cells and DNA that program you to reproduce. That's it. You're not special. You have no place in the universe and no one will care when you die.

Pretending that there is more to your life than "empty egos" is actually quite blue pill (i.e. fantasy world).

[–]NormalAndy3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

The sexual strategy part is essentially a hook. If that's what it's all about for you then thats fine.

[–]sir_shitfuck 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy

That position puts you not much above bacteria

[–]NYCSPARKLE6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

And all that feeds is your biological imperative and ego. And what benefit do they offer other than their vaginas? Sex is easily had and you don't have to develop open relationships to obtain it. Instead you are dealing with 'shit tests' which really is just disrespect and drama. No thanks.

My life requires me to have a dependable, attractive main chick for periods of time (to be a wedding date, attend work functions, be my date for events, cook and clean in the fall and winter for me, etc.).

It's a trade off like anything else, but having a productive relationship with a solid main chick and also being allowed to have side chicks has a lot of benefits (for me personally, maybe not for you).

[–]RedVelocitiy1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I like your way of thinking. Please share more.

[–]loveladee2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

NYC sounds awesome. I keep hearing the power dynamic skews super hard in favor of men, is it always like that?

[–]NYCSPARKLE2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Yep. It is probably the single best city in the U.S. to be a single guy.

No need to drive; everyone is Type A and assertive; big drinking / happy hour culture.

I think the mix of single women to single men is like 70/30.

[–]loveladee1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

My god that sounds amazing. How do you afford it?

[–]NYCSPARKLE4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

It is expensive, but salaries are generally higher in NYC.

I work in a fairly high-paying industry, and have 10 years experience, so doing OK.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

gave her a little comfort cuddle (have to give a little in that situation).

The Chad giveth, and the Chad taketh away.

[–]omega_dawg9350 points51 points  (8 children) | Copy

but from my experiences with Asian women, they do not like to share.

so the 20 can't possibly marry the 80%... somebody has to settle for being the "side piece," and they don't generally go for that.

[–]1Jaereth85 points86 points  (6 children) | Copy

somebody has to settle for being the "side piece," and they don't generally go for that.

At least in Japan, which this was written about, they absolutely settle for that. It's almost assumed that your husband will have mistresses and flings. It's ingrained in their culture.

I know some girls over there that have passed the age for marriage though, and it's a sad situation. When guys are turning away from the young girls with the creamy pussies because it's just too much of a fucking hassle at this point, imagine how hard it is for some post-wall Japanese woman to find a partner to have a real commitment to her. It just doesn't happen much.

From the outside it's hard to analyze, because many get married and have families. However, the infidelity is rampant among the married men. They have hotels that specialize in being a low-key place to take your mistress.

[–]LandoChronus89 points90 points  (1 child) | Copy

and it's a sad situation. When guys are turning away from the young girls with the creamy pussies because it's just too much of a fucking hassle at this point, imagine how hard it is for some post-wall Japanese woman to find a partner to have a real commitment to her. It just doesn't happen much.

Oh fucking well. I have no sympathy for women who ignore intelligent teaching and go for the "have my cake and eat it too" lifestyle then find out that's not how it works. At least she'll have an army of betas to help rationalize that it's not her fault.

[–]Ragnarok31415989 points90 points  (0 children) | Copy

She won’t have anyone to rationalize her choices. Most men in Japan do their own thing.

[–]omega_dawg9318 points19 points  (2 children) | Copy

understood. my experiences with asian women have only been here in the USA, and they're relentlessly possessive (imo).

i can't speak on japanese culture (in japan). if it's like that, chad is fucking a LOT of women. geez.

[–]1atticusfinch19738 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

I was banging a married Chinese woman for a while and the funny thing was she was doing it as revenge because her husband had an affair with a younger woman. She constantly said what a terrible person he was right after I'd finished doing anything I wanted to her. It goes across all cultures.

[–]omega_dawg937 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

tldr: AWALT?

is that what you're saying? lol.

[–]Pelikahn16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy

Good thing Japanese people already love cats so much

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes. women would replace men as the alpha. They already have more resources than theyve ever had before, because their jobs pay so much, and they face virtually 0 threat of physical violence because they arent hardwired to do so. Unless men go full islam and start making their bitches wear hijabs and ninja suits worldwide, this is bound to happen. Then the world turns to chaos, because women are inherently chaos. Its happening right now as we speak. So really its up to men to establish order again, first in their own family unit. Tie your bitch down. Make her submit. Dominate her. If she acts out of line, punish her. And that family order will turn into a societal order, then into order throughout the world. I think its all preplanned.

[–]theBreadSultan27 points28 points  (1 child) | Copy

This will no doubt get lost but fuckit.

Japan is a special case because of their cultural norms.

Firstly, free time is very limited in Japan.

Second, women don't date strangers (lest they be labelled as slags), so it requires your social circle helping out, unless she is already in your direct social circle (status bs)

The format in Japan, unless you already know the person well, is that, unless you are. Slut, you only date someone you know. The bench mark is usually 2/3 times hanging out with girl and or other friends / wingpeople...before you can go on your first date

And if you think you are getting a fuck or even a kiss on that first date, guess again, lest she be for ever tarnished as a slut.

At between 3-5 dates you can socially get laid...

The issue is, due to the lack of free time, just going from knowing of girl, to date can take three months, and that's all of your free time / days over those three months.

That's the high cost. It's not about gifts etc, in fact Japan is very equal on that shit. Valentine's Day for example is a day where women treat the men.

In Japan status is everything. So either you commit huge amounts of time and social resources to trying to honourably date a good girl. Or you trash your status by dating a slut.

Girls are fucked in the same way.... But hey, at least the economy is doing well aye

[–]FratboyOnReddit0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

fuckkkkkk you make sound like its all fucked which is it. Which doesn't help because if we don't (America) get our shit together give it a decade or two and we might as well be on the same route.

[–]MazMazda354 points55 points  (34 children) | Copy

That is an absurd reason to break up with anyone. "Heyyyy, ummm... so I noticed your third cousin was a bit funny sitting in her wheel chair. I don't think we should see each other" Da Fuk? Lol

[–]zyqkvx89 points90 points  (21 children) | Copy

Agreed, but his abundance mentality will always take him further than a less abundance mindset, even if he's wrong sometimes.

[–]manusiniectio113 points114 points  (9 children) | Copy

He might also be Wong, given he’s Asian.

[–]Nitsujsith12 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy

He most likely is right, given he’s Asian.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

See, this is how to respond. Frame. Wit. Directness. All the things women get all gushy over.

[–]CommanderBlurf78 points79 points  (8 children) | Copy

Slightly less absurd, if he were considering reproducing with her.

[–]rockstarberst34 points35 points  (7 children) | Copy

Downs Syndrome generally isn't hereditary.

Of the 3 types of Down Syndrome that we've mapped, Translocation is the only one that could potentially be passed down -- and it occurs in less than 3% of cases. Trisinomy 21, the most common type, is completely random and can happen to nearly anyone.

[–]xddm265320 points21 points  (4 children) | Copy

Doesn't matter, if you could have any girl in the world you aren't gonna choose the one with in-family misgenetics

[–]missinglastlette2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Did you even read the comment you replied to? Leaving her has a 97% chance of not making any difference at all. It’s really got nothing to do with genetics. It could happen with Stacy just as easily.

Also, is “misgenetics” even a word bro?

[–]Taguroizumo-3 points-2 points  (1 child) | Copy

My ex had a uncle with Down syndrome, i never considered dumping her for that kind of genetic risk, but hey she is someone else’s problem now.

[–]CommanderBlurf3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Hence my "slightly less absurd" line.

[–]weiguk0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

According to Wikipedia (cannot be bothered to do proper research) the chance of trisinomy 21 is "0.1% in 20-year-old mothers".

I'd rather take the .1% risk than the 3% risk.

[–]Pestilence19111 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Ive dropped a plate because she had a rare blood disorder, and it was hereditary.

Accidents happen. Dont reproduce with...avoidable problems.

[–]fashfront-4 points-3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Have fun with your downie kids lmao

[–]NormalAndy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Is that 'fuck it' in the sense of 'I am giving up', 'fuck it I am going my own way',' fuck it I'm killing myself'....?

There are many ways for men to say 'fuck it'. Some ways mean they will preseve Japan by preserving themselves, others mean that the society is dead in the water.

What men do is important.

[–]metallicdrama0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Mad respect for that. I would have done the same.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yea that's probably it. These guys are incels not voluntary celibates. The urge to mate is pretty strong in like... every organism on the planet.

[–]Chad-IRL-68 1 points [recovered]  (5 children) | Copy

This was also tested in San Francisco in the 1980s. The city was being flooded with gay guys, and the number of straight women was higher than the number of straight men. I came to SF in 1984 at 16 years old, and stayed until 1992. During those eight years, getting laid was never easier.

At least 2-3 times a year women directly asked me out on dates. One started by asking for a cigarette, then asked if I was straight, and then asked me out. In nearly every case I had sex with them on the first date. From ages 16-24, I never had to ask a girl out. In fact, I had no game when I left because I was used to women being the aggressors, which obviously wasn't the case elsewhere.

One the extreme downside, these women treated me horribly. 1980's San Francisco extreme feminism was at it height, and I was put down for being masculine; I rode a motorcycle, lifted weights, rock climbed, and other stuff. Being masculine in SF then was frowned upon. They were also abusive, both mentally and physically, but that could be in part because I was dating more aggressive women who were willing to do things like ask men out.

During large-scale wars, colleges also tend to experience this. I've heard accounts of women becoming the aggressors during WWII, much like what I experienced.

[–]FratboyOnReddit11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

Sweet baby jesus please share more of these stories, any good personal ones? Any memories of which colleges? Where? Maybe field report write ups or history posts/articles? Anything please this is so interesting to hear about in America, because its so rare.

Side note... during WWII, in a class i took the teacher mentioned that all the girls wanted "intimacy" from all the guys (built, strong handsome men) hence the baby boomer phase.

Fuckkkkkkkk this rabbit hole always seems to go deeper than you think.

[–]mancozbi2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I was ... being masculine; I rode a motorcycle, lifted weights, rock climbed, and other stuff. Being masculine in SF then was frowned upon.

I would guess that you would have gotten laid in any society, not just a society saturated with gay men. Women are attracted to fun masculine men regardless of political correctness!

[–]fuckrbrasilmods78 points79 points  (6 children) | Copy

Part of the problem regarding gender relations and mating is that women have been idealized both emotionally and physically.

Emotionally, some men (menchildren, guys w/ no strong role models or a wide social net of mutual support) believe women will nurture them in a motherly way. Most of the time, they will not: that is reserved for their own children. Don't look for a second mommy.

Physically, sexual drive is distorted by the idea that women's bodies are flawless. They're not: they age, they stink, they sag, they lose their attraction. That doesn't mean female beauty doesn't exist. It does, but it is often makeshift (make-up, bras, yoga pants etc) and most of all it FADES. Take that into account every single time you look at a beautiful woman.

Stopping idealizing women is the number one step for a more successful dating life and a more balanced gender dialogue.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Couple this with Japanese extreme perfectionism and it's no wonder people rather go their own way.

[–]johngalt12340 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

preference for beauty wouldn.t have evolved if it is not genetic and naturally occurring.

[–]fuckrbrasilmods2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

It's been artificially inflated. Beauty is great but it's fleeting and also much less solid than many men assume: it's often not that real beneath the make-up, the clothes etc.

[–]johngalt12340 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

It does exist otherwise the desire would have no meaning. Its much rarer.

For the same reason we feel hunger.

[–]fuckrbrasilmods1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Your arguing w/ yourself-- nobody said it didn't exist.

[–]R3v4mp3d0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

As some people posted awhile back (I haven't been active for quite some time): the "unspoken deal" what that the woman would be supportive, caring, kind, loving to her mate. This worked up until the last ~2 generations (the US) and up until the last generation (middle and Eastern Europe) since tho woman NEEDED the support of the man to actually live and fulfil her biological and nurtured role. Our current generation allows the woman to live well with or without a mate, but subtle bio/psychological cues make both men and women pander to her needs. This breeds weak-minded women. This effect isn't reserved to the female gender alone as I've seen it in med that had no/ weak/ absent father presence/ influence.

The truest of answers was that the social "system" was built around some biological cues, imperatives, affinities and tendencies. Our society evolved past the context in which this system could be used (we own the globe pretty much and are living in a hyper-prosperous environment unless you're in a tribe somewhere). The system needs a rework, humanity as a whole needs to sit down and think VERY CAREFULLY about how to deal with it. As things are going we're waltzing randomly about between the logical flaws of the old system, the benefits of the new system, the tendency towards biological urges, yet the longing for a system that we were raised in (partially for some, fully for others) and which proved to be a good, balanced out, elevating plan, but which really needs a revision 2.0 right about now.

[–]DeontologicalSanders333 points334 points  (111 children) | Copy

One thing you can be sure of is that women will not take steps to change this or improve the situation.

Reactivity to male initiative is fundamental to how women work. It's not something that can be eradicated or adjusted. It's kinda fucked, but you really have to hand it to them: every woman has a pretty firm idea of what she's convinced she deserves from a man, and she's usually not willing to settle for less just because better is not available.

There is only one hill that women are willing to die on, and this is that hill.

These women are not suddenly going to go, "Oh no, I have realized the error of my ways, senpai! We must accept that men are no longer satisfied with what we offer and make ourselves more attractive." Have you ever known any woman to readily accept fault for a major problem?

No. Instead, these women are going to do what women always do: complain, and wait for some other men to show up and fix their problems. Namely, immigrants, expats, and foreign invaders. Grab the popcorn; this should be good.

[–]Drumcode-Equals-Life108 points109 points  (44 children) | Copy

Even now, I see late 20s women with graduate degrees on social media claiming they won’t settle for anything less than the perfect man, as if they don’t realize all the men with similar education and adequate value are already taken, meaning they are destined for the life of a crazy cat lady, and seem to be just fine with that fact.

[–]recon_johnny121 points122 points  (24 children) | Copy

and seem to be just fine with that fact.

No, they just don't know yet. What they want in their 20's sure as shit changes pretty quickly as they get closer to 30.

I've seen it up close with my family. Literally a female in her 20's demanded a type. Only when that type was not available despite her looking for years....well, her objective changed, without her acknowledging it.

And that's the key. They convince themselves their new reality is the way it's always been.

The girl now? She's getting married in October. To someone less than ideal.

[–]Drumcode-Equals-Life68 points69 points  (23 children) | Copy

Give it five years, she’ll be miserable

[–]Fielder5792 points93 points  (21 children) | Copy

My LTR's best friend is like this. She's 33, single and clinging onto anything left. For the last 2 years I've watched her go from dumpster fire to dumpster fire trying to find a man. Now she's settling for whoever will put up with her because she realises her value is dropping daily. It's actually sad to watch.

[–]recon_johnny35 points36 points  (5 children) | Copy

That's the thing. Thanks to here, I see what's going on in real time...and I know exactly reality, not the bullshit I've been spoon fed up to now.

[–]Drumcode-Equals-Life33 points34 points  (4 children) | Copy

Exactly, without this sub I wouldn’t understand the true nature of women. Now that I know, it’s apparent everywhere with all the single women I know now in the latter half of their twenties starting to freak out

[–]francisco_DANKonia28 points29 points  (3 children) | Copy

single women I know now in the latter half of their twenties starting to freak out

They rarely freak out that early. Usually takes until about 33/34

[–]SuperCrazy0712 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

They get worried in the late 20s. Freak out in the early/mid 30s.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Didn't know that. I'd been surprised I've never seen an age meltdown. That age range explains it. Looking forward to watching.

[–]a_desert_creature21 points22 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'm still torn between the empathic feeling of loss for them and knowing they've made their own bed. It's tragic to watch and know what's going to happen every damn time. I have not managed to completely quit caring about my fellow human.

[–]SeedThrownAway0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Nothing wrong with that if it's true

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (10 children) | Copy

Haha fuck. My wife at 38 was convinced she had enough smv to do better than me.

Only because I had turned into a beta fuck. I'm turning that around and already she is changing her tune pretty quick.

[–]Fielder5724 points25 points  (4 children) | Copy

She has no idea what kind of world of hurt she has waiting for her if she was single at 38. All the men are either married, divorced and depressed or so well setup they don't need a woman anymore and just use them for sex.

Every day that goes by past the age of 18 the dating pool shrinks and shrinks and shrinks.

[–]midnight_metro10 points11 points  (3 children) | Copy

18? I'd say closer to early 20's. No one is getting married at 18.

[–]cheerful_dude5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

But the amount men who are willing to date them basically reduces each year, as those men will still want to date the 18 year olds.

[–]tempolaca4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

She has lower SMV than you, but doesn't mean she can have less sex.

Women have unlimited supply of sex well past 40 and even 50.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

Oh it's clear from her ventures that she can go have sex. The thing is, she found that she couldn't find any interested men that reached her high bar.

She's looking to best me, and although I did let myself go a little to shit over the last couple years, it was mostly my attitude that needed changing. Now that I actually tell her what to do when she needs it (and she well knows she needs it), she's given up on it. Not mention my own increased smv and some dread.

But yeah, if she lowered her standards just a bit, she could go out today and fuck 6 guys. I'd be pretty damn lucky to win at one. I'm way out of the game at this point, but I'm working on it.

[–]Icarus6630 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

She can find sex, but she will not find good beta providers. This means to find a job, single mom, etc

[–]NormalAndy4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, the change is hilarious. They hate it, but it sure works.

'oh you want to split up? Excellent- shut the door on your way out and have a great life!'

Fuck you. I dgaf anymore.

Seems to have worked anyway

[–]dthlist0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

But is she even attractive? The point being made is the slightly attractive ones will not struggle to find a husband.

[–]Fielder572 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

She's very attractive. She's struggling because she will only date up and not down.

[–]dazed1110 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

And so will be the poor guy she married

[–]red_matrix87 points88 points  (14 children) | Copy

Women think men want a women with advanced degrees and a high paying job. They don't get it, and never will.

[–]187oddfuture99 points100 points  (10 children) | Copy

They're just projecting what they want in a man onto men, assuming that men want the same things. We are simple creatures. We just want something pretty to fuck that's pleasant to be around. Women can't even be that anymore.

[–]xddm265354 points55 points  (4 children) | Copy

I make this point a lot.

Women like to act independent, bossy, and 'alpha' because it's what they're attracted to. Not much different from a nice guy acting nice because that's what he likes

[–]reluctantly_red2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

Women like to act independent, bossy, and 'alpha' because it's what they're attracted to.

This is basically a shit test -- if the guy pushes back watch how quickly they change.

[–]xddm26534 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

It is but a lot actually believe they are exhibiting traits that men find attractive. They think a rich successful man will find their independence sexy

[–]reluctantly_red0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Their independence makes it much easier (and cheaper) to date them. :)

[–]xddm26536 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yea no. A woman who acts like that is going to get plated, not dated

[–]Drumcode-Equals-Life41 points42 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, I just want someone that’s fun to be around when I get home from one of my two careers, I don’t need a damn rocket scientist for a partner

[–]blownnnn4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

That's why actors can get a lot of women and attention. They can morph into whatever they want them to be.

[–]fuggetboutit0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Why didnt i realise this earlier god damn it 😂

[–]PS2Errol41 points42 points  (0 children) | Copy

When infact men are happy with the waitress if she is 25 or under, thin, pert and hot.

Not once have I ever cared what job a hot girl did. Not once when looking at a hot girl, her lovely breasts and fine skin have I ever wondered what education or career she has.

[–]juiceboxguy854 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

If you ever had a money sucking vampire of a wife for a decade, you might change your mind on this. I will never be the sole provider again.

[–]red_matrix4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I understand what you're saying. But that has nothing to do with attraction. Also, most men on here don't want to get married...and why would you after going through a divorce?

[–]SpecOpsAlpha41 points42 points  (2 children) | Copy

Divorced friend of wife dropped off her son to play with my kids while she went out on a date. About an hour or so later, she’s back at our door. Asked her what’s wrong: “Men are like parking spaces: the good ones are all taken and the rest are handicapped.”

[–]Ragnarok31415948 points49 points  (1 child) | Copy

Or it would take me five minutes of effort to find a decent one, but I won’t do that. The earth should rotate around me and the parking spot will come to me.

[–]DeontologicalSanders18 points19 points  (0 children) | Copy

If that were the case, maybe a few of them could learn to parallel park.

[–]rebelde_sin_causa26 points27 points  (7 children) | Copy

Except immigrating to Japan is practically impossible

[–]jjgoto8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is not true at all. You can search YouTube for videos debunking this belief. The difficult part is actually learning the language and the requirement of denouncing your nationality.

[–]MavRP1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It is pretty easy for a US citizen to get a 1 year work visa though, just teach English.

[–]DeontologicalSanders-5 points-4 points  (4 children) | Copy

Funny, they used to say that about Germany. And Sweden. And the UK.

[–]1Kurush55923 points24 points  (3 children) | Copy

Actually the UK has had lax immigration laws since the Victorian era, when it branded itself as a haven for immigrants who wanted to make something of themselves in Britain. Immigration requirements are now considerably tougher than they used to be

[–]1-Fidelio-14 points15 points  (2 children) | Copy

Immigration requirements are now considerably tougher than they used to be

And yet millions per year combined for these countries. They're pretending to have tough requirements. They don't actually.

[–]CryptoViceroy6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

They're pretending to have tough requirements. They don't actually.

Much truth. It's a fucking disaster.

Even though the vast majority of voters are against immigration, doesn't stop them from importing 100,000's per year regardless.

And they wonder why Brexit happened.

[–]1-Fidelio-2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

They know why it happened. They're trying to prevent the cattle from having the political realization that they aren't isolated in their views but in the majority.

[–]momomotorboat11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

I agree with you. The only exception I've seen where women realize their errors is when you leave them. Of course, they have to have bought in. Sure, anyone can be coy to try to get you back in the short term, but sometimes you see the shift in the long term.

Outside of that, women will firmly hold to the idea that men are defective and the fault can't possibly be between their ears.

[–]smaffit44 points45 points  (22 children) | Copy

And I'm willing to die on the same hill. Do something to deserve all the effort, or the effort isn't going to happen. Period. This must be a two way exchange

[–]DeontologicalSanders107 points108 points  (21 children) | Copy

Right. But the problem with that "tit-for-tat" compromise, which women are seemingly unable to foresee, is that the downside of not engaging in it is waaay worse for women than it is for men.

Unless he is an abject professional failure, a man unmarried and childless at the age of 40 probably has some kind of sports car, a condo, some cool friends/connections because he still goes out, free weekends because he doesn't have to spend them at tee ball practice, and a couple of younger women on speed dial. They may not be as attractive as what he could have pulled at say, 30, but hey, our expectations as men are relative. We make due.

On the other hand, an unmarried and childless woman at the age of 40? Yeesh.

Beyond that point, stray cats and porcelain angel figurines practically begin appearing inside her house out of thin air. Women aren't taught this. It's an ugly truth no one wants to talk about, because the women who endure it refuse to publicly admit to their own misery. The dire importance of positive public perception over truth, inherent in all women, precludes them from ever acknowledging it.

[–]flameohotmein31 points32 points  (0 children) | Copy

It used to be taught to some degree. We don't even have that shit anymore.

[–]rigbed21 points22 points  (12 children) | Copy

Why would a 40 year old be unable to get as attractive women as 30 year olds

[–]NYCSPARKLE41 points42 points  (11 children) | Copy

The physical wall for (most, but not all) men is late 30s / early 40s.

Harder to keep in shape, begin to lose a little hair, etc.

Also the mental sticker shock for a 22 year old girl dating a "40 year old man" versus a "35 year old guy" is real, unfortunately.

Luckily the 27-29 year old HB8s will be all over you.

[–]rigbed20 points21 points  (4 children) | Copy

Fuck. So if you don’t have it together In your 30s you’re fucked.

[–]NYCSPARKLE40 points41 points  (3 children) | Copy

I would say so.

You can pull off "struggling musician" at 32.

At 42? Might as well be a literal homeless guy.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yowch. Right in my reality.

[–]NormalAndy9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

I turned it around post 40. Life has never been better.

[–]TheMajesticDoge10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy

that's why you hop on test and become a fucking beast.

[–]xddm26539 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

Nah man, hugh heffner didn't have a wall. There is no wall for men unless you build one yourself

[–]Pussyshack 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy

The physical wall for (most, but not all) men is late 30s / early 40s.

Wrong. If you're chugging coors light daily then sure.

Harder to keep in shape

Wrong again. It's easy to keep in shape. Most men are lazy fucks.

Also the mental sticker shock for a 22 year old girl dating a "40 year old man" versus a "35 year old guy" is real, unfortunately.

You're on a real fuckup roll bro. Young women LOVE older men if he has his shit together. Again, most men are lazy fucks so that don't apply.

[–]NYCSPARKLE0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yes, that's why I said "most, but not all" in my first sentence.

[–]red_matrix19 points20 points  (4 children) | Copy

The cat phenomenon is something else, it screams "I want a baby to take care of", but women don't want to admit this.

[–]Lizzle3721 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

What do you say to childfree people? Men and women? Are they all lying to themselves?

[–]NormalAndy2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Society manipulates people into choosing not to have children- same way we are told not to consume resources because we should 'think of the planet before thinking of ourselves'.

It's bullshit. Families and dynasties rising up are threats to the status quo and dynasties who currently run things, which is who government is really here to protect and provide for. They don't have to come along and kill off the competition if the competition can be trained to be compliant and kill itself off. That's why we are trained into becoming betas.

[–]red_matrix2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Women have the need to take care of things - it's why single women almost always have cats (and sometimes dogs). Its why the love gay men, and stick up for them and trannies. When women hit 30 baby-fever hits high gear. Men don't don't go these things.

[–]blownnnn5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

It really is ugly. I know this hot ex-celebrity that had it all: fame, money, traveling the world, any guy she wants. Then got into a big cheating scandal, basically ruined her career & life. Never recovered, left Hollywood. Got knocked up by some random dude, single parent, unmarried in her 40s and recently got a job at a place that reminds her of the guy that ruined her life. It's fucked up! Truth is, her "BFFs" sabotaged her life, out of pent up jealousy and guided her to fail. Women turn more cruel as they age.

[–]Mgtowmillion5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yep Unmarried childless 40s Own condo Have 28 and 35 on speed dial

I made a horrible mistake marrying ( blue pill) and feel better the younger model is 25 years younger than my ex

I actually look for educated women- because they date up and it is a small pool

[–]Rian_Stone23 points24 points  (13 children) | Copy

One thing you can be sure of is that women will not take steps to change this or improve the situation.

It's a shit attitude form men raised to think like women. they outsourced their happiness to people who give two shits about it. They are the sexual version of occupy wall street. A bunch of kids with no financial future, petitioning the banks to change their practices.

the banks just swilled champaigne and laughed form their penthouses

[–]187oddfuture11 points12 points  (12 children) | Copy

Still doesn't change the fact that responsibility is women's Kryptonite. Obviously RP man shouldn't derive his validation from what women think of him or what women he gets with (tell that to Donovan btw), but that doesn't mean that we, as men, can't see the situation and their collective behavior for what it is and call it out.

[–]Rian_Stone11 points12 points  (10 children) | Copy

We are saying the same thing. taking your ball and going home is not a valid strategy to get women acting right. They would rather burn it all down than do anything about it.

As for Donovan, he's not getting validation form his woman, he's getting it through rubbing peoples noses in it. He's a hot head that way, hyper competetive

[–]blownnnn4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy

This is the right strategy. It's pointless to marry a western woman, do not even bother to get them to act right. It's futile. Right now, western woman are the worst women to "invest" in.

$1.3 trillion in student debt, 3/4 of that is women. If your women is college educated and not from a rich family, she is already a liability. If you want to buy a house or have kids, you have to deal with this debt.

Women are graduating with degrees with less earning potential, a rising pay gap, they take more time off for kids/caring for people. #metoo has obliterated their executive hiring possibilities. The deck is stacked against women to just pay off their student loans. A western woman will be too overworked to love you or even take care of the kids.

If your just not into plating and gaming woman. MGTOW makes A LOT of sense. There just isn't much you can do.

[–]Rian_Stone0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

if you're not into sex go workout. that moral stance against biological impulses betrays a deficiency

[–]blownnnn0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

You cannot negotiate or get someone to "act right" when they control & possess what you want.

[–]Rian_Stone1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

This isn't a sniper game. You don't get someone to act right, you expand your pool of people willing to act right, and get enough exposure to meet more of them

RP is never about getting 'that' girl, it's about getting 'more' girls

[–]blownnnn1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I agree with you. There is way better options in the world. The point I'm making is that the west is at the mercy of women right now. If all western women decided to not pay off their student loans, they can tank the economy. Right now igen's and millennials think socialism is the better option and that frankly irks me. Because they want to put off their responsibility to pay off their debt for someone else to handle.

[–]Rian_Stone1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The point I'm making is that the west is at the mercy of women right now.

Russian occupied Germany was at the mercy of Russians. There are winners and losers in every other situation.

Thefuck is anyone doing here, if not to carve out their own life within this framework?

Women are incompetent debt riding tatto'ed children and are the evil masterminds causing the downfall of society with their unlimited power.

Can't have it both ways. and the more experience I have, the more I realize they are children who get a few hall passes.

Women have a hard time coming to terms with being inferior, men have a hard time coming to terms with being disposable.

[–]187oddfuture2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

I disagree, I think Donovan's entire identity centers around his woman because of his past and how BP he was, and how he never wants to be that way again. Ironically, by being so obsessed, I think he's the most BP of the RMG. But that isn't the point. MGTOW and the herbivores aren't trying to get women to act right, they aren't political. They're just guys who see relations with women as too costly. Most MGTOWs would love to get married, or at least date, but in the West the laws are just so one-sided and too risky in their eyes, so they elect to limit or cut contact. While the RMG and the RP sub guys still see value in the companionship women offer and their sex, MGTOWs and their international equivalents simply don't believe that the benefits outweigh the risks.

[–]Rian_Stone0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy


[–]NormalAndy5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

responsibility is women's Kryptonite.

Wow- can we pin that one somewhere?

[–]a1b1no27 points28 points  (10 children) | Copy

Immigrants and expats is not going to happen much in Japan as it is also an island with a mostly closed culture...

[–]DeontologicalSanders24 points25 points  (9 children) | Copy

Funny, they used to say that about Germany. And Sweden. And the UK.

[–]187oddfuture28 points29 points  (5 children) | Copy

Nah, bruh. Japan is way different. They're xenophobic as fuck and openly racist. They have the same DGAF as the Chinese ingrained into their culture for thousands of years. The Japanese have one of the lowest birthrates currently and they still won't let in immigrants, and are lukewarm to expats at best. They'll either solve their own problem by taking the vote from their women or they'll die out, either way of their own accord.

[–]giantsrocker11 points12 points  (4 children) | Copy

Ive heard that their lukewarm behaviour turns colder as your skin shades go darker. Japan has been a very homogenous society since inception.

[–]ReMaxius0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Where have you heard this and wtf does it even mean?

[–]AGallopingMonkey 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy

It means if you’re black they’ll hate you.

[–]ReMaxius0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Oh, gotcha. I’ve heard the same. Was interested in studying abroad in Japan until I found out how xenophobic and racist the general population is. I get enough of that here in CA, I don’t need to travel across the globe to experience it at a higher magnitude.

[–]DaParish9-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

The Japs are a bit fucked in the head just saying

[–]red_matrix11 points12 points  (1 child) | Copy

Europe used to be a cold fortress that killed invaders, including other Europeans. Now look at them....

[–]NormalAndy8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Austerity does the job better these days. Slavery was much easier to understand and fight against. Modern society kills silently and effectively - which is why borders are less important.

Same with sex. Chad gets even more yet we supposedly live in this metrosexual equal society? I don't think so...

[–]HuckleberryVanWinkle 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy

Not seeing just generally not giving a shit as being the same as waiting around for men to show up and fix their problems.

Seems like both genders are ok with how this is playing out.

[–]DeontologicalSanders13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy

It doesn't matter if people "feel okay" with how this is playing out. Japan now has the second-lowest birthrate on the planet. A population crisis wherein the vast bulk of people living there are old and non-productive. Not enough taxpayers to foot the bill for their versions of social security and medicare.

No one is going to give a shit how the "genders" feel about it if their society starts crumbling around them.

[–]Avertus1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Western European countries would be more than glad to export them to Japan if Japanese women want 'em so bad.

[–]omega_dawg930 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

isn't this happening in Europe as well?

[–]Oceansdrive9 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy

No. Mediterrean countries are very traditional, they still have that macho culture. Thus aimed at getting some ass. Holland germany slightly less but in no way comparable to japan.

[–]Avertus10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy

And Japan used to have that culture as well. Their soldiers would literally kill themselves rather than be captured by the enemy or surrender. Not many Asian countries would build a colonial empire rivalling Western ones, let alone fight the USA in an ocean-spanning war.

[–]HappyProfessor2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

All the good men died in that war. The next generation was fatherless and thus started the downward spiral.

[–]Guardian_of_Justice0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Reactivity to male initiative is fundamental to how women work. It's not something that can be eradicated or adjusted

I think it can, if done on a global scale. If ALL men stop chasing women they WILL change their behavior. Practically its not realizable anytime soon, but in theory it definetly works.

[–]NormalAndy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

There is a massive gap between what women think they deserve and what they actually deserve. You get out what you put in and can only expect to leech of others for so long.

[–]punchyson255 points256 points  (25 children) | Copy

My novice understanding of Red Pill theory is that as long as there are some alfa males to have, the women couldn't care less that the guys they don't really want to fuck anyway are checking out.

Japanese Chad must be swimming in pussy.

[–]Rian_Stone108 points109 points  (7 children) | Copy


he's actually desperate to get more guys to help out

[–]NormalAndy27 points28 points  (0 children) | Copy

From the article:

" Shimiken exercises 90 minutes a day, four days a week, focusing on heavy weight lifting and deep squats, which he says not only help his thrusts but also build up testosterone. He lives off a go-bag filled with glutamine, branched-chain amino acid, zinc (said to make semen whiter), arginine, and vitamin jelly. He dumps the bag's contents out for inspection, and nowhere in the pile is the pill that fuels the American porn industry: Viagra. "I haven't had to use it," he says. "Yet."

He knows what's important and he manages to get 90 mins of training 4 days a week on top of a 7-8 hour day 7 day per week shooting schedule. The man is a legend...

[–]MisterTwo_O22 points23 points  (2 children) | Copy

This article is riveting. Thanks for posting!

[–]Rian_Stone24 points25 points  (1 child) | Copy

This is the kind of place an rp man would go if guys go MGTOW. Let them sleep with their egos, you can drown in pussy instead

[–]missinglastlette12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

Let them find validation within themselves, you can continue trying to get it from women instead.

Nah but in all seriousness, that article was really interesting, along with your point. The numbers are almost unbelievable

[–]punchyson36 points37 points  (1 child) | Copy

That is kinda hilarious, too bad I'm not Japanese.

[–]Rian_Stone55 points56 points  (0 children) | Copy

I can never figure out how they get their crotches to look pixelated like that. I must not have the right sort of clippers

[–]greenlittleman14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy

Same way we don't care about ugly fat old women and this not likely to be changed even if their percentage would be higher than now.

[–]3LiveAFTSOV62 points63 points  (7 children) | Copy

japanese chad is american billy beta lol

[–]punchyson38 points39 points  (5 children) | Copy

Lol that is probably true. There has to be some Yakuza or whatever that crush it with women though.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock24 points25 points  (1 child) | Copy

Top gangs always crush pussy. And IIRC the Yakuza control the Japanese porn industry and keep out non-Japanese.

[–]RyanFire0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

> Top gangs always crush pussy. And IIRC the Yakuza control the Japanese porn industry and keep out non-Japanese.

i'm interested in this, do you have any source on that? Or can you give me more info on what you heard?

[–]rigbed21 points22 points  (0 children) | Copy

Japanese women are worthwhile enough for yakuza to pursue but the money can buy Slavic

[–]greenlittleman-5 points-4 points  (1 child) | Copy

He probably meant what it is much easier to be Chad in Japan. And if you look their porn - you'll understand what this is indeed so. It is not Yakuza who crush it with women, this is just any above average guy who could be considered as a beta by american standards.

[–]MemeAttestor15 points16 points  (2 children) | Copy

No, it's mostly foreigners. The Japanese were isolated for many thousands of years, so it only makes sense.

[–]punchyson10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

I can see that, but there have to be some Yakuza guys or whatever that get all the pussy they want from hot women. Tatted up gangsters do well with chicks.

[–]Islam-Delenda-Est17 points18 points  (0 children) | Copy

Do you know how few foreigners live in Japan? The foreigners in Japan do well with women, but there aren't enough of them for anything to be "mostly foreigners."

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Pardon me. What does “alfa” mean?

[–]omega_dawg9336 points37 points  (1 child) | Copy

it's the nickname for the Italian car.

[–]CherryCityPulp 1 points [recovered]  (13 children) | Copy

Very interesting. I think we may see something similar happen here in the U.S.--we already have the MGTOW movement, but I also see women doing some really weird shit and putting themselves in a horrible position to find a man.

One kind of stupid example is not shaving their legs and dressing like weird fucking hippies in a way that is NOT attractive whatsoever. I live in Portland Oregon and I see this all the time. I'm like: "you actually thinks this looks good?" I guess so? But I also think it's the arrogance of women in their 20's who are so jaded by male attention they think they can get away with anything.

The next dynamic, however, is much more common and widespread, which is the career focused woman. She spends her 20's and maybe even half her 30's focused on gaining material wealth, happy to toss men aside and not really making any real efforts on the relationship front. Then, suddenly they hit somewhere between 30-40 and it's like: SHIT, I want to settle down/have a family/what have I done with my life?

The problem for these women is that hypergamy doesn't work in reverse. I don't care if you have a bunch of money and status--I care if you look good. Additionally, these women try to seek dudes of a similar age: in their 30's and 40's, not understanding that those guys are now entering the prime of their SMV and can easily date women in their 20's.

But--and here's the hilarious part--these women won't lower their standards. They still think they should get the same level of guy they could attract when they were 25 and refuse to consider anyone who makes less money than they do. Ever seen "has his shit together" on SOD (swipe/online dating)--that's what that means. Anyway, they end up just being forever single and settling down with a bunch of cats, reading romance novels and whatever else useless people do who have money.

The good news is that for TRP men it doesn't matter. There are plenty of women out there who want men in their life, and relatively few men who understand how to get their attention without getting trapped in the subversive relationship we call marriage.

[–]1empatheticapathetic40 points41 points  (3 children) | Copy

A lot of these women have chads kid relax their need for a BB partner. Check out r-WhereAreAllTheGoodMen

[–]AHumilationADay20 points21 points  (2 children) | Copy

I feel like this will just make me sad, but i'm going to look anyway

[–]1empatheticapathetic21 points22 points  (1 child) | Copy

Your sadness turns me on bro

[–]brxdpvrple10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

Why is this being down voted its hilarious 😂

[–]grewapair18 points19 points  (0 children) | Copy

But--and here's the hilarious part--these women won't lower their standards.

Trust me, they increase them. You date these women only once and go back down to the pre wall ones.

[–]22oregon2210 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

Portland is an absolute SJW hipster wannabe “feminist” shithole. I lost my last gf to Portland “culture.” Stay away.

[–]GoCleanYourRoom54 points55 points  (3 children) | Copy

sees the antifa SJW liberal mental disease in Portland

Press F to pay respects.

[–]VoidInvincible2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I live in Portland too and my god has feminism done a number on feminity here! I am glad I am not the only red pilled dude in Portland.

[–]throwaway2_5_5_20 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I have to disagree on the hair. I love it. So primal.

[–]Median219 points20 points  (2 children) | Copy

I've been to Japan multiple times, and this phenomenon simply does not reflect the reality of what it's like over there. There are couples EVERYWHERE you can't walk through Shibuya, Shinjuku, or any large district in Tokyo at night without seeing swarms of people in their 20s and 30s looking to meet others. There is a vibrant nightlife scene in clubs and bars, full to the brim with people meeting each-other every single night. The women there are not cold, stuckup, derisive, or particularly money hungry, if anything they are more polite and more approachable than women in most Western countries. That being said, Japanese people in general are far more reserved than people in Western countries, but that goes for Men and Women, and that has more to do with how polite (sometimes overly so) Japanese culture is, where people are usually extremely worried about offending, bothering, or inconveniencing each other.

That post, like many others about "herbivore men" in Japan reads a lot like it was written by some ignorant foreigner who has never been to Japan, and is just buying into the crap spouted by shit like Vice News.

Furthermore, rates of being single and unmarried are up EVERYWHERE, not just in Japan, and yet we never see talk of "Herbivore" men in the United States:


That being said, there ARE problems in Japan that make relationships harder than they need to be, but it has nothing to do with the individual men and women. Japan suffers from an ATROCIOUS working culture that forces salary men and women to work to the bone until late at night and on top of that to then go drinking with managers and coworkers, which is why you will see a constant stream of people in business clothes filing out of bars/restaurants at midnight to catch the last train home every single night of the week. That, on top of ASTRONOMICAL living costs, makes the prospects of having a family or even a relationship more difficult (on your wallet) than it should be.

[–]GAndGMethod4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I agree. Lived there for 3 years.

This whole western media brainwashing about sexless Japan is really over hyped.

It is easy to game there and I knew and seen plenty of Jap guys slaying pussy at the bars and nightclubs in Osaka, Tokyo and Okinawa.

[–]sd4c31 points32 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don't mind approaching. I mind being taken for a ride, gradually dropping my plates in the growing and false conviction that "this one really loves me", only to end up dumped (or forced to dump her) the moment she figures out that I dropped my guard and decided to love her back.

Women are the opposite of men. Buy a gift, do a favor for a guy or otherwise show loyalty- and he'll go out of his way to reciprocate your tributes. But I've seen an enthusiastic woman's face fall, crestfallen, upon my providing a gift or demonstrating other sincere affection.

The greatest gift you can give your girlfriend, is iron-clad proof from another cute girl that she wants to bang you. This never failed to get hot sex, whereas a diamond ring, iPad, help with work- never did.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev29 points30 points  (0 children) | Copy

Reminds me of this joke:

Q: ”How many women does it take to change a lightbulb?”

A: ”Two, but they don’t actually change the bulb, they just sit in the dark and bitch.”

[–]DropDeadTyrant54 points55 points  (14 children) | Copy

after reading this, I think girls will end up chasing guys again in Japan. But, not for a century or so of keeping that up. I mean, think about the U.S. We gave women voting rights and for years the majority of women still believed that staying in the home was the right thing to do. Japan is on its way to breaking the "men need to be available for women" mindset, but it's not going to happen rapidly.

[–]DatingTank35 points36 points  (10 children) | Copy

If they keep it up for a century, the population will be extinct

[–]omega_dawg935 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy

i think they have the slowest population growth in the world right now!

[–]digeridooasaur42011 points12 points  (2 children) | Copy

I thought their population was decreasing (or at least stagnating.) I could be wrong though.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

It is declining. They’re barely having a child per woman right now and you need at least 2 children per woman for population growth.

[–]Field_Of_View0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

No, you need more than two children per woman (2 point something) just for replacement aka stagnation. Growth would require more yet.

[–]Samatic7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

There are some schools in Japan where there is one class that has one student and one teacher.

[–]Merica9116 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy

They all ready have a negative population growth and their government is giving couples incentives in having kids.

Also, Japan (men) has the highest suicide rate in the world. Shit is that bad out there.

But I truly believe if Japanese men not only unplug from the video games and vr shit (and they are the highest users) but to also unplug from the blue pill matrix and start to fucking swollow the red pill.

If man have to work their asses off (and we also do here in the west) but and also get fucking jacked in the gym, learn game, etc it will spin chicks wigs in Japan.

It's that men need to learn to grab the bull by the horns regardless of the bull. If the bull is harder to ride from previous years, fucking learn how to ride better..

If you search YouTube on Japanese men, you can't help in seeing a bunch of anime watching pussies.

[–]AmTishka0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Poland have the highest suecide rate, do you have answer for that?

[–]blownnnn0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Japanese people are deep down crazy man. Behind that facade of pacifism, are some of the most cruelest & fucked up people to exist.

[–]BandzThrowaway-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Two nukes and the utter pillage of that country from the top down during WWII will do that to a society. All the real OGs must have been killed off with that generation.

[–]Hoodwink8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think it will be an interesting case-study of what happens when a population naturally shrinks - rather than die-off to invaders or (replaced with immigration). I hope that they keep their immigration policies to see exactly how they fair. I'm actually interested for some environmental reasons because we will eventually hit the point where the earth can't support the human population..

I don't think we actually have a historical record of anything like this without another human population doing the killing/raping/replacing.

What happens in the economy would be interesting as well.

[–]red_matrix4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Not likely...virtual reality is right around the corner.

[–]llDUNN8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

The problem is men have, for the most part, always been available to women. It's women who try to manipulate us to think that they are available. When they're not. Even more so now lol

[–]analt22310 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy

No. Women deem a much much smaller percent of men attractive than the other way around.

[–]casemodz12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

Women look at fitness, charisma, social status, wit, success, wealth.

Men look at how decent their body and face are.

[–]ten-bible0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is true, but standards go down given availability.

OP has it wrong. Sexual mating is just like macro-economics with supply and demand.

Men stopping being the "askers" won't change the fundamental realities of the marketplace. It's just a pain that causes men to do more work and handle more rejection. You can shift that burden to women, sure.

But women will still be 'asking' (vs accepting) the men they truly want to fuck. Harems would persist. Selectivity imbalance is still there.

The only way to fundamentally change the market is if all men suddenly decided to become more difficult/ high standard in sex. Create artificial scarcity (like women do) and drive up the price of dick.

Problem is, this would never happen, it counters basic biology. Women are more selective and probing for evolutionary reasons, not intellectual ones.

BUT -- if men did this, it would work. Problem is, there would be "strike-breakers" taking all the low-hanging pussy anyways. So yeah. Wouldn't work.

[–]JohnBravo9990115 points116 points  (15 children) | Copy

Women have to be subservient to men for civilization to exist. When the population crashes enough, men will reassert themselves.

[–]cjandstuff120 points121 points  (10 children) | Copy

When population crashes enough, dominant men from another country will come in and take over. The women will be subservient to them, or be killed.
This is in no way meant to promote any kind of hatred towards women, this is what happens through history over and over again.

[–]red_matrix22 points23 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yup, it happened as recently as WW2, Nazi Collaborators sleeping with the enemy. After WW2 the French beat and shaved the heads of these women who betrayed them.

[–]RedHeimdall51 points52 points  (3 children) | Copy

For the autists, it usually doesn't happen in modern times as a formally declared war between nation states. It happens through migration, aka population replacement, aka soft genocide. As opposed to the more popular hard genocide of times past.

[–]HappyProfessor6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

Japan has one of the strictest immigration systems in the world. But at some point, they are going to have to compensate for their rapidly declining population.

[–]RedHeimdall2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is easily done if there is the will to do it. Incentivize large families. The government can offer home loans to large families, and/or tax breaks, and/or just write them checks. It's been done before and it works. The only problem is that it's politically incorrect.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Robots will take up just about all menial work in the coming decades, I don’t think they will have to replace their population.

[–]Samatic1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Its this reality that women need to realize what can happen when they do not let their man lead them in life since once the women see a weakness in men they lose all interest. Then again most women don't read about history since they are only interested in the short term future of events. Sicilians are actually a great example of all this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3yon2GyoiM

[–]casemodz6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

You put men on one island and women on another island and see how it goes. It's been done before too. The results are as you'd expect. I'm not sure why women are so highly regarded.

[–]Adeus_Ayrton11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

They are much better consumers. You can sell a man something that costs 5 bucks at 10 apiece, but only to a woman can you sell something that costs 2 for 50. Ie literally the entire make up industry and stuff that revolves around fashion.

[–]drkinferno726 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

But what's the word on gaijin hunters over there?

[–]DeadliftRx63 points64 points  (10 children) | Copy

I would like to state that if you require women in your life to develop a sense of value or to find purpose in life, then you are proceeding through life, as a man, in a misguided state.

This effects my take on the separation between MGTOW and TRP, where MGTOW swear off women, and the focus of MGTOW is still about women. TRP is about how to persevere through women being part of our universe and to enjoy them when they happen to be involved in our lives. Realize the frame, gentlemen, and how women are a part of our universe; not the other way around.

It reminds me of how hatred is not the opposite of love because of how one dwells on that hatred, but rather how true apathy is the antithesis of love. No man requires a woman to thrive, but they can be excellent entertainment.

[–]uniqueusernamex11214 points15 points  (3 children) | Copy

i dont think mgtow is bout woman tho

[–]frankreyes-5 points-4 points  (2 children) | Copy

men going their own way: men without woman. It's all about women.

[–]uniqueusernamex1125 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

well you are twisting it for your own "truth"... a man can be happy on his own and/or with pussy on the side . either way we all agree that having a bigger purpose then woman is sth that every man should have


[–]187oddfuture18 points19 points  (4 children) | Copy

That's not what MGTOW is at all lmao

[–]ArthurSamuel25 points26 points  (7 children) | Copy

As a non-Japanese who lived there for a number of years I'm not sure I completely agree with this comment. It's much more nuanced that what has been suggested above. Yes, I don't doubt that this does exist but not to the degree suggested, however, it would take too long to explain my thinking.

Anyway, to address the actual question: would women chase men if men stopped chasing them, the resounding answer is YES.

As a western male in Japan I would have the pick of both the locals and the expat women. But the tables were turned on the western women. Where we had abundance and choice, they did not. Most local guys were too shy to approach women due to their perceived (possibly justified) sass and the language barrier.

So the expat women, that back home wouldn't give you the time of day, would throw themselves at the expat men. After all, we all need a bit of love.

That's just me and my buddies experience but I don't see why it wouldn't apply to other situations.

[–]iLLprincipLeS 1 points [recovered]  (6 children) | Copy

What would happen if you as a western male would impregnate a bunch of local girls?

[–]ArthurSamuel2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

What usually happens when you impregnate someone?

[–]GAndGMethod0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Nothing, at least if you live in the u.s

Japan is not apart of the international child support laws. Meaning if you knock one up and come back to the states they legally can not make you pay child support and vice versa.

So cum in all of them. If you want a visa just seduce and marry one. It's pretty easy. The women are lonely as fuck.

Source: lived their for 3 years, recently just got back to the states.

[–]iLLprincipLeS 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy

Sounds good. Sounds really good. Do they usually use condom? Take pills? Are they pregnancy wise or they don't care? I imagine their loneliness would influence their decision to keep a baby.

[–]GAndGMethod0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

No they usually never use condoms. That’s not a Japanese women thing, that’s a worldwide women thing. Even female doctors let you hit it raw. In fact I have never had any women in my life insist that I use condoms. They actually get mad when you do.

No they do not take pills. In japan my girlfriends told me there is a social sigma for women that take birth control. They are seen as whores, or at least they think only whores take bc. Japan might have some of the lowest bc rate of any country.

Also if you do knock one up the chance she will get a abortion is rather low. Social conditioning is to strong for them to actually show up to the docs because of “shame”

Japan is low key one of the most poorly sexual educated nations.

With that said a lot of women have untreated stds because of these very same issues.

One more thing if you left and are in good shape you don’t even have to approach them. They will just randomly approach you any where you are and flirt with you and grab your muscles.

Muscles are extremely rare for the women to see there and they love them very much.

[–]I_do_it4sloots23 points24 points  (6 children) | Copy

Women would keep chasing chad

[–]omega_dawg9314 points15 points  (5 children) | Copy

yeah they do... but after a certain number of fuck sessions, they ALL ask that one long question:

"what does all this fucking mean... where is this relationship going... when are you gonna step up and do the right thing?"

[–]grewapair15 points16 points  (1 child) | Copy

THey only ask YOU that question. They keep their mouths shut when it comes to Chad.

[–]omega_dawg938 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

true dat. but they try to force chads hand at times too.

women are relentless about their feelings.

[–]_the_shape_6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

And that crossroad right there is what separates the men from the boys.

One group will cave and say something like: "Fuck, you're right - I'll introduce you to my parents tonight and we'll rent some mover trucks this weekend to transport all your belongings into my place."

The other group will stand their ground and say something like: "well, if this isn't working for you anymore, you know where the door is."

[–]I_do_it4sloots0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That is a shit test that only comes when they suspect chad isnT fucking other women

[–]RocketPowersSD 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy

Women want money far more than sex or companionship. As long as we allow women to replace relationships with cash, the birth and marriage rates will fall. GYOW, AWALT. They are soulless, greedy succubi.

[–]MemeAttestor12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

That doesn't really make sense, since most Japanese men have money to spare and spend on women replacements. Of course the top % will always find a gold digger, but it's overwhelmingly rare for an above average gaining jap business man to find any wife.

[–]red_matrix5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Women want cash but also men. They are of two minds, they seek the hot alpha as well as the beta provider. A man who wields both of these will hold a woman (or many women) forever.

[–]_the_shape_18 points19 points  (1 child) | Copy

The issue is a bit complex

Quite so.

To my understanding, comparing Japanese women specifically to women here in the States is flawed from the get go. For starters, the weeds of feminism haven't grown wild over there like they have here, so (to take one effect resulting precisely from that point) their culture doesn't celebrate "you go gyrl!!" hyper-promiscuity like it commonly is over here.

If guys did begin to start dropping like flies from the dating game, I'd predict women would dial up the attention-whoring (ex. more revealing pics on Instagram, showing more skin on the streets), and yes, they'd go even harder after Chad specifically (they can't help it ). They'd probably disregard the regular Joe-schmoes they tend to settle with when things aren't going their way (i.e. when they hit the wall, when Chad rejects/ignores them), and they'd continue their policy of zero fucks to give for the incels and unattractive MGTOWs.

TL;DR - withdrawing from the game en masse would stick it even harder to the 80%, and even would mean more ass for Chad

[–]Two_kids_in_a_coat7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Naw, WW2 Russian women would fight for any man they could get.

[–]emdmarco37 points38 points  (7 children) | Copy

“..Games galore, interactive movies, perverse comics...”

I wonder if those were instead replaced with more self-building hobbies- such as lifting, martial arts, art, business success, etc (of course with the occasional leisure and video games), if women would have thought differently. Seems like they gave up on women, but ALSO gave up on themselves.

Find me a guy in japan who gave up on women but lifts, has hobbies which benefit the mind/body/soul, is successful with his job, has a passion for contributing to this world, and has PURPOSE. I guarantee you he has women leaving bras and panties at his front door.

Edit: added last paragraph.

[–]p_and_q34 points35 points  (1 child) | Copy

It's easy to assume that most men in Japan are soyboys by popular hobbies like "..Games galore, interactive movies, perverse comics...", but remember that the work culture in Japan is incredibly intense. The options become a mix of lifting, self improvement hobbies, “..Games galore, interactive movies, perverse comics...”, and dating real women. Which of those activities do you think the average overworked Japanese guy is going to go for?

[–]emdmarco-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

I actually learned a bit about their intense work culture recently. I’m not by any means calling Japanese men soyboys so I apologize if that’s how I came across. However, I can’t blame Japanese women for becoming unattracted to the ones who do spend most of their leisure time on hobbies such as video games and movies, instead of red pill ideologies of becoming better men. This goes for all men universally, not just Japanese men.

[–]heisengarg3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I completely agree. Thats what was ticking me off about this post. If you are buying stuff that only a Woman can provide you might have given up on them but are still recognizing and granting them value rather than building value for yourself.

[–]RedwallAllratuRatbar0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

You cant grind a purpose imho

[–]emdmarco0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

What do you mean grind a purpose?

[–]RedwallAllratuRatbar1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Life is pointless from "purpose" point of view, unless one plans to grind to levels of influence of politicians, fulfilling meaningful purpose is out of reach

[–]c_megalodon255 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think that there may be cultural considerations in Japan that are not the same in the West. While there is certainly a rise of toxic feminism in the west, most straight or even bi women do want a man to fuck their brains out. Hell, I knew a few lesbians who were experimental enough in college to want a dick on occasion.

I went to a college that was 40-45% men. I don’t care how liberal or feminist they were, they wanted dick and would put the energy in to get it. I don’t feel jaded or feel disrespectful of the women, but in the end, women (and men) all want to get laid.

[–]Endorsed ContributorSKRedPill3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

The masculine must actively establish boundaries for the feminine. Passive aggression will not work because the feminine in a way wants to be led. If you want to plant trees, you've gotta put your hands in mud. No way out of it. Withdrawing masculine energy from society isn't going to make things better. Establishing the frame does. For that you've gotta get into it.

Engaging with women and then kicking out the ones who do not respect you is a far better way to ensure compliance on a large scale than to simply withdraw. The feminine will not come to compliance on it's own. Without the masculine, it will just fluctuate away to it's own funeral.

Japan for it's part, suffers from a horribly time consuming work culture that is old fashioned, unproductive and leaves no time for any life outside the office. Since World War 2, they've become soft, which was ok at first (imperial Japan had become dark triad sociopathic masculine) , but now they're absolutely making a national identity out of beta-ness. They're suffering a national Nice Guy Syndrome, with all the symptoms.

It's ok, let civilization decline for a while. It will act as a cosmic form of dread. :)

[–]red_matrix11 points12 points  (2 children) | Copy

I've thought about this. And what we are seeing is women filling in the masculinity void men have left open. Like water finding a common level, the masculinity and femininity have to balance...thus you see women acting like men, against their own nature, subconsciously. You see women acting tough, Wright lifting, yelling, stronger grip strength, more tattoos, more cursing, more belittling of men, radfem culture. Also women want attention, that's why they pretend to be lesbians and make out with each other, it's why they support LGBQQTT2 etc, and also why so many women own cats, their surrogate children. Subconscious they know they are lacking testosterone in their lives, so they seek to create it...problem is, they are getting it without men, and it's fucking them up. No wonder female happiness is at all time lows in the west.

[–]civilization_failed 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy

Like the toy dog that hasn't been dominated enough, yap, yap, yapping away, nipping at people, trying to run shit without a clue how to do it.

[–]red_matrix2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Same goes for single moms and their children.

[–]rlindem48 points49 points  (1 child) | Copy

None of you has any idea how japan society works. It’s another universe over there. Don’t even try to speculate.

[–]NormalAndy18 points19 points  (10 children) | Copy

Oh well, time for a cheap Japanese takeaway (finally). Option1: marriage will just be seen as a business relationship again as vulnerable girls become chattels- but how likely is that? Alternatively Japanese society follows the Swedish model and imports men. Also unlikely with their xenophobia.

Most likely outcome: socialised jap society kills itself off just as quickly as it rose from feudalism. Corporations move on...

[–]smaffit14 points15 points  (9 children) | Copy

I don't think a desire to preserve culture and mitigate the demonstratable risk of violence falls under the xenophobic category

[–]majaka12349 points10 points  (7 children) | Copy

Except non Japanese who have grown up in Japan are treated stigmatically.

Even people who live there for a couple of decades, are married to a Japanese person, have a Japanese job, speak fluent Japanese and for all intents and purposes are model examples of what all immigrants should strive for, will never be allowed "full access".

Immigration policy should reward successful integration into the host culture, not treat them as separate no matter what.

Edit: autocorrect intelligently switched out "Japanese" for "Spanish" after mentioning "Japanese" around six times. I tell ya...

[–]smaffit24 points25 points  (4 children) | Copy

You said who speak fluent Spanish... I think you meant Japanese. Even still, you are correct in that non native Japanese will never be accepted fully into Japanese culture. Japan is not a melting pot, and they value the homogeneous nature of their culture. The distinct culture is also one of the things that drives tourism and a general sense of being Japanese. To integrate would be to lose this aspect. The Japanese aren't afraid of other cultures, tjey are just very protective if their own.

[–]majaka12342 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

fluent Spanish

Wtf autocorrect. slow clap

[–]NormalAndy0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Apart from the way they treat 'herbivore men' that is?

[–]smaffit0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Meh, as a secure man, being shamed by insecure women doesn't bother me

[–]NormalAndy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Sure- the point was about how Japs treat their own.

[–]Islam-Delenda-Est1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Even people who live there for a couple of decades, are married to a Japanese person, have a Japanese job, speak fluent Spanish and for all intents and purposes are model examples of what all immigrants should strive for, will never be allowed "full access".

When I visited Japan and from talking to the expats I know there, people treat you better with "partial acceptance" to Japanese culture than "full acceptance" in American (or most other Western) culture.

Immigration policy should reward successful integration into the host culture, not treat them as separate no matter what.

Those two statements are not at odds, Japan does reward successful integration, just not to the extent of "all of the benefits of full native citizens" - and why should they?

[–]NormalAndy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Have you never been refused entry to places in Tokyo which are Japanese only?

Probably not as bad as Chinese people spitting in front of me as I walk by but racism certainly ingrained in the culture.

Truth be told, it is everywhere. There are no truly non- racist nations, no matter what it looks like on paper.

[–]AlexDr0ps7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

I've had a woman 'ask me out' on two separate occasions. One of them had their male friend approach me and hand me a paper with her number. The other faked a phone call, approached me while talking on the phone, and handed me her number. Both were overweight, the former was morbidly obese.

The idea with both of these scenarios is that they wouldn't know if they were rejected. They did not formally ask me out, they just put themselves out there for me to make an actual move. In the truest way possible, women can't handle rejection.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Why is everyone here so convinced that things will change? It seems much more likely that the Japanese men have adapted to the environment and the women have no reason to make any changes because any reproductive urge they feel can be dealt with in other ways: pets, adoption, toys, etc.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

To the title:

They already do that’s part of people’s problem on here, the game I learned is to make the fact your available know introduce yourself then back off and “pursue” something else or work on yourself the second you start seeing those “hey how you been” texts that’s your cue to make a move.

Women want what they can’t have or want something that they perceive a better looking women in their eyes wants.

My complete opinion.

Women chase just in a different way then men.

[–]LogicalAnswers2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Women already ask guys out all the time. Nearly every successful couple I know of (not many these days) the girls slid into the DMs lol. The couples that always fail are the ones where the guy asks the girl out. The reason for this is pretty obvious if you understand hypergamy and such

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Well yes.

They ask men out occassionally, but while it isn’t completely unheard of, it certainly isn’t common.

Girls ask guys out if that guy is in the top 20% in attractiveness and they are really into the way he looks.

As a moderately good looking individual, I have received date invitations and booty calls, but only a few times, and never in person.

[–]Endorsed ContributorKeffirLime20 points21 points  (1 child) | Copy

This is basically a discussion about MGTOW.

A fundamental problem with Sōshoku(-kei) danshi is that no one gives a shit that they're gong their own way. It will change nothing. No real man of value would go his own way because Society (yes even a femicentric one) still works for a man of value. And if Society works for a man of value, what incentive does he have to go his own way?

If all the men of value, the CEO's, the alphas started going their own way it would make an impact. Because then it's directly affecting human beings biological urge to mate with the peak of the opposite Gender. And if the peak of the opposite gender is making themselves unavailable it would have a marked effect on society as a whole.

Even if the Alphas joined the betas in abandoning pussy, women would get thirsty. Settling for substandard cock. This is when the betas who originally were Sōshoku(-kei) danshi would come out the shadows and cease their opportunity to get some pussy because the whole reason they went Sōshoku(-kei) danshi is because they couldn't get it. Essentially their original dilemma would be solved.

Men in Japan are hardly happy with Sōshoku(-kei) danshi, their depression and suicide rates are testament to that, they would much rather have the real thing and in all likelyhood still long for it.

But Alphas going Sōshoku(-kei) danshi isn't the case, and would never be for the above reason. An alpha doesn't compromise his position in Society, he revels in it. Sōshoku(-kei) danshi is mostly men who are bitter that society isn't working for them. These are not high value men. They will cease to breed and work themselves out the gene pool.

The same could be said for feminism. Seldomn is it the peak of their gender who claim to be feminists. Society currently works for beautiful woman, they have the easiest life you could imagine. True equality would be a disaster for these woman. Unless all peak woman start really becoming feminists it too will never have it's desired effect. Despite shit tests biology/Survival of the fittest tends to keep things in balance.

[–]simplisticallysimple1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Just because you're a "man of value" doesn't mean things will always go your way, especially in this gynocentric society. MGTOW is smart even if you're Chad. But Chad doesn't need to be reminded to go MGTOW -- he's naturally MGTOW. Why would he settle down with one broad and cut off the rest? He wouldn't. He'd pump and dump them with impunity. That's precisely what MGTOW is. Look at Leonardo DiCaprio.

The only problem is that most MGTOWs can't get women anyway. But there are guys who can get women who will never be caught dead in a relationship with a woman, let alone a marriage.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy

Maybe this is a species level mechanism in response to overpopulation.

[–]civilization_failed 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy

No, this is is a result of a global social engineering program to control population now that people are wising up to the bullshit wars they throw every few decades to cull the herd.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I think it's easier explained as a natural correction mechanism, since many people who exist now are superfluous and not good mating quality. That's why there are incels and feminists, they're really not fit to mate.

[–]Mefic_vest10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy

Tthe end of the red pill road has always and will always be MGTOW. When you put everything in current society on the scales of logical and rational risk assessment, there is only one possible outcome.

[–]rebelde_sin_causa4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think the natural progression for any RP man is GHOW, but typically when he's older and sex isn't as important as it was when he was younger. For the man in his teens and twenties and thirties, the biological urge is too powerful to overcome/resist. But in middle age things can come into a different perspective. Then he wonders why he should ever put up with any of her shit if all that's in it for him is to be able to fuck her.

[–]thebadmanpuntdbaxter2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

If we can call “love” a psychological game, it’s pretty certain that a party will stop playing when the frequency and reward of winning is skewed drastically to the other party. If a dog never wins at tug of war with a person, it loses interest. Unfortunately, moral shame is the default mode of correction for a society rooted in western religion. And japan is VERY westernized.

[–]uber_kerbonaut2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I've found Japanese women to be more likely to make the first move (than American women). Maybe it did change them a bit.

[–]UnluckyPenguin2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Welcome to Ancient Greece.

I can't find any article that mentions this, but I know I've read about how women used to be the ones that chased men in ancient greece.

Generally, women were the pursuers, and the 'men' acted grossed out about cat-calling women and proceeded to hook up with other guys.

[–]blownnnn0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Greeks believed abstinence made them mentally and physically more powerful.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

holy shit when Japanese men just redpill themselves you glorious bastard

[–]VillagersUnite2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think that has a lot to do with upbringing as well. A hell of a lot of blue pill conditioning as men grow up. But let Japan be a lesson. Instead of taking the red pill they altogether just said fuck this and opted out. Sooner or later they'll start incentivizing giving birth and creating families. But even then that may not be enough. Japan needs changes all around.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

The thing that should be of interest for us at TRP is are those women having less sex?

If no, then clearly that means the top 10%/20% of men are laying all the women while the rest of men have given up any competition.

Seeing as how the goal of TRP is to get yourself into that top percent bracket this should be great news for all of us.

[–]bonusfruit3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Agency is strictly masculine.

[–]Mattreddit7607 points8 points  (6 children) | Copy

Human nature takes centuries to change not a decade

[–]zyqkvx23 points24 points  (5 children) | Copy

Human nature has changed an incredible amount in the last 50 years. I was there. It will continue to change rapidly with many new twists like what I'll call mass mental illness enabled by the internet.

[–]trizzletrazzle8083 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy

Human behavior has changed, sure, but human nature? That'll never change. Go read the sidebar again.

[–]zyqkvx-4 points-3 points  (3 children) | Copy

Human behavior has changed, sure, but human nature? That'll never change. Go read the sidebar again.

Go read the sidebar again.

Talking like that is a good way to get fucked under and never know how or why. Especially if you rudely dictate someone to do something. It's like telling someone to calm down when they are upset. Instant enemy, possibly a murderous one. Do as you wish.

[–]trizzletrazzle8088 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don't want to get banned or anything, so my apologies to the forum in advance for any breach in etiquette, but in all seriousness, making threats while under the veil of internet anonymity is a classic bitch move.

So go fuck yourself, and then read the sidebar again. Bitch.

[–]IronMonk48-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

Your frame is weaker than the eggs I cracked for breakfast. Geez man it's the damn internet ffs.

[–]SpecOpsAlpha1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

If a man can have a bot/synth female sans all the bullshit, why bother unless you want kids?

Also seems like some R versus K population dynamic at work.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Because sexuality through a bot (or porn for that matter) is a shallow existance afterall.

[–]SpecOpsAlpha0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, but the bot/synths are getting better all the time. There’s an old Twilight Zone episode where an isolated guy is brought a very lifelike female bot and the guy’s buddy has to blow the head off the bot to convince the man his gf is a fucking robot. To some Japanese worker bee dude, a sympathetic bot may be just like that.

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillcad1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Gotta think a Japanse guy who lifts and read some Chateau Heartiste would be slaying it. Absolutely crushing it

[–]victor_knight1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Better this kind of global-scale, long-term social engineering to help reverse population growth than some brutal virus to wipe out half the population quickly. At least that's what science and government (who are behind the social engineering programs, like feminism) believe.

[–]Iwantmypasswordback1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Just wait until the sex robots become realistic. There will be a huge change in the dynamic

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Natural selection is working nicely.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think it depends on the woman. Some women may take action and seek out a guy. I think the majority would not though.

Personally, I know I’ve had enough of the average little princess phone zombie. Sure, I’ll act if there is a unique situation that is too good to pass up, but my drive to try and talk to women is fading fast.

[–]Elaol1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's not about women not being worth it. It's their work culture. Japanese are so obsessed with work, working over 15h a day. They don't have time for romance. Actually, they are fine with it.

Source: worked with little motherfuckers for 18 months

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. “ - Gandhi

[–]Aloongish1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

There are women who already do chase men. It wouldn’t matter if men stopped chased women or not. Both women and men are met with rejection with some of the people they like.

[–]Youngyoda894 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

So to me- this sounds like a good place to go to get your dick sucked. A sex deprived woman is ready to jump on anything (fuckable).

[–]llDUNN3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

The main thing to understand is that women are biologically designed this way, to cheat, to fall out of companionship once the excitement is gone. Women are children at heart, and girls just want to have fun. Once the fun stops, they begin to start filtering out who their next "slave" or exciting "Chad" will be. They're essentially hormonal robots that are at the mercy of their own biology. We've all seen how well that goes. Biologically they have to mate because once they reach 30, they begin to lose fertility, and eggs. They're just not designed to cohabitate very well, if at all.

[–]TheTrenTrannyTrain1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Here we learn whether it's East of West, women in general all love to shame men to make us follow their feminine imperative.

[–]1Jaereth1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The main thing this passage neglects though is that male infidelity is very prevalent and pretty much culturally accepted in Japan. So for every guy who MGTOW over there, there's some Chad-san who's adding his potential girl to his soft harem. And it's not even that soft, because Chad-san usually has a wife and traditional family at home. It's just accepted he's going to fuck about if he's a "powerful" man.

[–]TarsierBoy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

or they would explore the pleasures of southeast Asian fulfillment

[–]iLoveReddit320 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Fuck. I hate that this is so true.

[–]albus_scirocco0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is one of the best posts I've read in awhile. Very informative and challenging. Kudos!

[–]Chenzomocco0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Boycot? Boycot?! Boycot! Hey everyone, BOYCOT!!

[–]Schwaggaccino0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

As of now more than 60% of all men in their 20s are Sōshoku danshi

This falls in line with the bottom 80% of men. Women shame men in either Japan or the States when men fail to pursue them. This is nothing new. I think the more interesting question is - if the top 20% of men stopped caring, what would happen to the 80% of women going for the top 20% of men? Would they throw themselves onto them? Would they try to change their behaviors? Would they go their own way?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That's because men on a whole never really stop chasing women. Only a group of men are going their own way. Still, you have to consider gynocentrism and how society pedestalises women. Going your own way is then a personal journey. Like cutting out the tumour.

[–]simple_beauty0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I think natural, hetero behavior is so far removed at this point (thanks to, what I consider, psychopaths), at least in the West, from what's organic, and that we'd be even more f*cked if we stopped asking women out.

It would just be one more way in which man and woman takes a giant step away from what's natural. I think it's natural for men to ask women out. Certainly, there are exceptions and rare cases, with everything. But I do think there is something to be said for the fact that selfless men have a tendency to jump in front of a car if it means the car is going to hit a woman, and I do not think women have that same tendency to save men in that way. Women are more focused on saving themselves, which is maybe a cause of deeper fears, or maybe because the universe needs them to have and raise children. Who knows? But I do think it's a natural process, for man to ask out woman. And I think we'd be giving "them" (liberals, psychopaths, ego-centered humans) another victory over the natural world.

[–]JJ33140 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I think it's possible if a sizable percentage of top 20% men either go full MGTOW, or at least refuse to marry/commit while having zero children with these women.

My suspicion though is that things will be more like the inner city communities, where the most sexually active guys will be too stupid to not get these women pregnant. If the women get knocked up, they may be sufficiently satisfied with being pumped and dumped by attractive men, and bearing at least some of their children.

Higher IQ and conscienscious women will still try to marry, but unclear if they will be able to fully overcome feminist programming and the natural tendency for women to assume role of receiver of male attention. They may just double down on the bitterness if pumped and dumped enough and go to sperm banks rather than dish out proposals. Women from upper middle class households where the parents happened to stay together will probably be most tempted to aggressively seek out husbands as well.

[–]synchronicity90 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Brent Smith has some good ideas on getting women to chase you. It works, but u still need the inner game worked out.

[–]Mr-Ed2090 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'd be wary of believing much in the way of Japanese men putting their foot down with their women and saying no. Having lived there and gone out there, young japanese guys are shy beyond belief. A lot of them resort to getting black out wasted after work in the cities and hitting up 'host' clubs to get their kicks.

It stems from their culture which is very oppressive to the young in a 'respect your elders' way. Corporate Japan is archaeic with the younger staff mostly always being subservient to the outdated elders ways of operating. Forging your own path or way of doing things is simply not expected and the penalties for failure or misconduct are often severe and bully like.

Japan still holds extremely traditional values albeit at the cost of their youth 'growing up'. It's hard for them to learn Independence and many live with their parents way into their 20s and 30s.

[–]Matthias_Foley350 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It’s just another lame shit test. Ignore them and stay happy. The happier you become, the more miserable they are because it proves them wrong. Ignore their bullshit and just do what you need to do.

[–]Luckyluke230 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

and then making a business of exactly that little niche.

you think the CAPITALIST west would have done something like this now.

[–]NikolaGeorgiev0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

So, tl;dr: Japan is MGTOW on a large scale.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Depends how attractive you are

[–]Persaeus0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Japanese culture is pretty different compared to western, especially USA, culture.

from what i have seen from my highschool age kids, yes the girls step in to at least partially fill the gap.

as aside, all the Japanese pussy going untapped. i need to move.

[–]2johnnight0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

We are so advanced technologically that in the urban environment people do not need each other for physical help/work. The last thing men can provide is money, which can be extracted from men without their presence (alimony or taxes). It may be different in rural areas where people still appreciate and rely on each other, where one can not rely completely on law or money.

[–]JohnGalt3160 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

counter point:

when WW2 killed a ton of Russian males, it skewed the dynamics. Russian women became hard working and Russian men became drunks. i guess it depends on the culture of the women. japanese women are going their own way.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah ultimately it comes down to the man bro. The man has to hold everything together. A mans best investment in life is a $100 olympic weightlifting bar, $200 for 400lbs of weights, and a squat + bench rack. Few months of hardcore 3x3 compound lifts will turn any japanese herbivore man into a flesh eating, pussy destroying monster.

[–]quakociaptockh0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

The topic can be broken down to the question:

Does low attractiveness motivate women to change?

The answer is: no.

For the sake of the discussion we are assuming: attractive - guys want to fuck her; unattractive - guys don't want to fuck her.

First, do "naturally" unattractive girls receive a blast of motivation and start to work on themselves? No, an ugly girl will complain that no man wants her, and might descend into compulsive eating and become fat.

Second, do women hitting the wall, their attractiveness declining because of age, change their attitude into more feminine and develop some character traits to compensate for their fading looks? No, they stay equally entitled and would rather blame men that they only like younger ones.

Third, if all the men in the world agreed not to fuck women anymore, effectively treating them as unattractive, how would that affect them? They will probably get depressed. They will probably blame men. They will probably all die alone.

"Work hard to get laid" is a man thing. Girls are the passive side of the trade. Unattractive girls don't go and approach men, they also don't acknowledge any responsibility of their part in the situation. Women see the world as driven by some external forces (men, God, fate, stars, whatever), never by their own fucking selves.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I still kinda want to see every man stop chasing women. Not just a percentage. Will they get desperate, or will they just become more obstinate? Would they for once start going for guys under the top 20% threshold?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I almost feel bad for what we did to German and Japanese culture to turn them from warriors into this. Almost.

[–]greenlittleman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

BTW this quote is bullshit "As of now more than 60% of all men in their 20s are Sōshoku danshi. Here is the wiki for the phenomenon: Herbivore men - Wikipedia"

Not 60% of all men, but 60% of men who is single in their twenties and thirties. And only about 30% of men are single in their thirties, i.e. you could get what only 20% of men (lowest tier) become so called herbivore. Guy who answered on quora most likely just try to falsify facts to make his point more extreme.

[–]Betterthanuatlife0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I couldn't explain it any better than this guy did. He really hit a home run in this response.

[–]ahahhahahahhaa0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Sick of investing in women to receive certain comforts, and as a result pay another women to let them rest their head in her lap...same thing.

[–]Poopmaster300080 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I read somewhere that chinese men have become incredibly arrogant to such an extent that chinese girls are the ones doing the chasing over there. This is supposedly due to the lack of desire to have female children. I don't remember where, but I can try to find the source it if someone wants.

[–]Endorsed ContributorSKRedPill0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I wonder what women would do if all men gained control over their sex compulsions and went on a commitment strike (or even a sex strike, seriously, I wonder how many guys have turned women down). This is actually very hard -- it is so much easier for a woman to withdraw sex or pull out of a marriage now.

(PS : I think the commitment gatekeeper role is a bit exaggerated, because a) Women have far more control over commitment and as you may be aware, 80% of divorces are initiated by them and b) Seriously, if men had the same control over commitment, women would be the ones proposing for marriage)

If the 80-20 rule is to be believed, men withdrawing won't change the equation much, and actually makes things easier for the top tier guys. The population of men in fact needs to drop to 20% of the total, consisting of only the most attractive men with sufficient resources before the dread becomes intense enough to tip the balance back in favour of men.

That, or get rid of the welfare state.

[–]Quo2100 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

So... Japan is essentially a Red Pilled (male) Society?

This is a very interesting read. Since I found TRP just very very recently, I've wondered what would happen if most men took on his job to learn the truth and just move from the blue-pilled attitude to being self-caring, independant and open about their desires and expectations for their own life, and ditch every one else as a secondary worry.

Thanks for sharing this

[–]Fyrjefe2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

No, it's not. Both men and women are plugged in and their base natures are exploited by their materialism. Only when the men rediscover value in themselves and work to cultivate it--and their traditional culture has many tools for that--women will also see their value. The good news is that walking away from demanding women points to fact that they believe that they have some inherent dignity. The mistake was putting up with the attitude and letting it cultivate. I suppose they can enjoy the decline in the meantime as well.

[–]TopOccasion290 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

They would only chase the top 20% men...as they have always done. Some would chase the remaining 80% to be their betabux though.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Let me tell you the puss in Japan is ripe for the picking. Although not all Japs would make great wifes they'll at least cook and clean your place while they nag you to death.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Japan and co will be the pioneers of transhumanism. Their culture is driven that way by tptb. Asians are the best test subjects, they are adapted to be efficient and obedient.

[–]ovrload-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Japanese women won’t care, western men in japan will fight over them

[–]TRP VanguardWhisper-1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy

[–]3LiveAFTSOV1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Was he pointed because he brought in something and started interesting discussion ?

[–]Serious_Tour0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Nope, he got pointed for copying/pasting a quora discussion, lol. https://i.imgur.com/xzwGUDX.png

[–]3LiveAFTSOV1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

That's what I'm saying man.

[–]Hailteni NaHalitenina0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy


[–]jonpe87-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

No, a generation of jerks will soon be born in Japan, men are the soul of human race, woman can't do shit. Wait like 30 years and new cultural trends will appear. Soon the young boys will realize: "WTF is this shit? Lets get my dick wet and stop being retarded."

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think the real root cause of this issue is related to the Japanese culture of worklife balance. Most Japanese people work in excess of 50-60+ hours per week. The work is often stressful and has even resulted in the creation of a new word for death from overwork. The Japanese word Karoshi means “overwork death” and it was created in the 70s because of the epidemic that was from people dying from or at work. I suspect that the Japanese have not only given up on women but they have also given up on social lives and due to their “hive” mentality they focus more on what they can do for their country vs as an individual. I think that this is why you see such a massive difference between Western culture and Asian culture.

Also, this wasn’t aimed at insulting the OP on this thread. Wanted to clarify that because I didn’t want to hurt your fee fees.

[–]justchilllllin-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

> as that the Japanese men gave up on women

More like a lot of Japanese guys are just clueless incels. Japanese guys won't approach girls due to fear of rejection because of cultural shaming.

[–]Jackpot807-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

So what do you suppose we do about it? Just sit back and watch the world empty out?

[–]chances_are_ur_a_fag 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy

just got back from Japan. complete bullshit. soyboys don't get pussy like everywhere else, me and a homie had a blast.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

“Chances are ur a fag”?

Jesus, the amount of asshole is overwhelming.

[–]chances_are_ur_a_fag-3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy

while i get laid, faggots bitch about it on quora lmao. lay off that soy homeboy

[–]zyqkvx-4 points-3 points  (3 children) | Copy

If guys suddenly stopped asking women out, would women begin chasing men?

I'm responding to the title before I read the post. Let's see how I do:

That will never happen in American in the foreseeable future so entertaining those ideas are a sure thing road to bluepill thinking.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Read the post before making assumptions, or you’ll get ahead of yourself and make some mistakes.

[–]zyqkvx-2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy

I did read it after. It was a good post. I said.. "I'm responding to the title before I read the post. Let's see how I do.."

It was a mini experiment.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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