Why did this girl lie to her orbiter?

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November 21, 2017

This past weekend I went out and hit it up with a HB7 who was celebrating her 18th birthday. Since it was her first night of clubbing she told me she was nervous apparently, so I invited her to my favourite club to see the crazy light shows they put on. Accompanying her was her HB6 friend and this quiet guy who just stuck by 7’s side the whole time we were conversing. He was attractive enough but it was obvious 7 had him on a tight leash.

On the walk to the light club 7 was less responsive to me, so I kept frame and chatted with 6 until we arrived. Upon entering 7 pulls her orbiter aside and whispers some shit about who knows what, and he almost immediately pulls me aside and offers me a drink at the bar.

While enjoying my free drink, orbitman gets dead serious and says: ”dude heads up but 7 just said she doesn’t want to get with you, so probs isn’t worth trying”

I finish my drink, say “ok” and leave the bar. Old me would’ve taken orbiters advice and left her, but I wanted to test this out. With orbiter trailing behind, I find the two girls in the mosh and without hesitation grab 7’s waist to dance. She reciprocated instantly and were hooking up within 30 seconds. I caught a glimpse of the orbiters face and it looked as if his brain had stopped working.

Normally I’d brush this off as a last ditch cockblock effort but the look of straight up confusion on the dudes face makes me believe he was telling the truth. So why would she go back on her words within a span of 5 minutes? Why would she tell him that in the first place? I just don’t see what she would have to gain from it.

Post Information
Title Why did this girl lie to her orbiter?
Author bostonburrito
Upvotes 56
Comments 56
Date 21 November 2017 06:48 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit askTRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/538
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/asktrp/comments/7efxqm/why_did_this_girl_lie_to_her_orbiter/
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Red Pill terms found in post:

[–]refusewool95 points96 points  (2 children) | Copy

Strange, if only we should listen to their actions and not their words. Oh well.

Edit: I propose a new adage for beta orbiters:

Don’t listen to their actions, or their words

[–]Speedracer111118 points19 points  (0 children) | Copy

Deleted to prevent doxing

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Genius...Someone needs to add this to the sidebar!

[–]GreenPiller62 points63 points  (2 children) | Copy

This reminds me of the time I got friendzoned by a woman, she fucked random dudes on the side and kept telling me they were just bootycalls. She told me that spending time together was way more important because we cared about each other. My time is a valuable thing, its not easy for women to find a guy that'll give them all the validation and support. To all the orbiters out there, don't let them rape your time.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

Most orbiters are happy exchanging their time for validation/female attention. What they must do is understand why they value their time so poorly.

[–]BreakingRed_2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

There's something to be taught to people who generally value the contents of their wallet more than their time. I got into reading Stoicism stuff and Seneca's letters "on the shortness of life" pretty much taught me to respect my time. By absorbing that lesson I stopped browsing reddit and became more productive. In fact wasting excess time now disgusts me, because my standards on what "fun" is are higher. That means I'd rather read a book that has some insight to offer than play a video game that I somewhat feel like it.

[–]theincrediblesreddit27 points28 points  (4 children) | Copy

Similar situation happened to me last weekend, I was hitting it off with this girl, damn this girls body could turn a gay guy straight. So we're talking I escalate, she doesn't reciprocate. Ask her for her number she refuses and straight up ignores me.

I say fuck it, I go dance with other girls. Tunes she was seeing me the entire time, cause I looked back and saw her staring at me. WTF?

As you know, approached again and she was an entirely different person, gave me the number without asking and started feeling me up. Girls are weird.

[–]Ou-tis30 points31 points  (2 children) | Copy

They are weird if you look at them like men,but they are girls and in your situation the girl acted like a girl. You was nothing special to her,but after some time spent with other females your value to her increased.

I have chickens,a few are brooding hens.When one of them leave the nest to eat,the other chicks want her eggs, and they go broodi them but soon they leave the job because require skills and it's boring. But they go for it every time,because chicks want what other chicks have,maybe later they will do their estimation about it. The same is with food,if a chick have something in her mouth the other chicks want it no matter what taste it can have.

Human chicks act the same,preselection is real. And the more I think about my hen-house,the more similitudes I see.

[–]krefnasterploc1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

One of the best analogies I’ve heard about women

It’s like preprogrammed actions they can’t control

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

They're not weird, they're just making sure they don't give their pussy to a dude who is unfit in the masculine sense.

There is no difference between a woman rejecting a guy to see if he's socially bold and a dude turning down a commitment request from a girl who doesn't meet his ltr standards.

We protect what is valuable to us and only let those in who have proven themselves.

If women don't "let you in" it's because they're not satisfied you're valuable enough.

[–]Nomfwic20 points21 points  (2 children) | Copy

Well I sense a shit teat tbh. Testing 2 birds with one stone. The obedience of her loyal obiter aswellas seeing if you are alpha enough to ignore her words...

Made a very good call bro, well done.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Imo, shit testing op is fine; it's natural. But what I find sad, is the orbiters strict compliance. I'll never get tired of watching men cater to women in public.

[–]Morphs_2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

The orbiter just doesn't know any better. We have all been like that at some point in our pasts. Imagine how big that knowledge gap is between this guy and OP. It's quite nice actually to be able to handle a situation like that and leave the other guy standing in confusion.

[–]iLLprincipLeS22 points23 points  (7 children) | Copy

A consistent criticism I’ve received over the years is that the Red Pill is so negative. Why cant the Manosphere just sweeten up? Its truth is definable and self-evident, but why can’t Rollo adjust the ‘tone’? I’ve lived and written through several waves of newcomers to the ‘sphere and in each generation the same want for a ‘kinder, gentler’ Red Pill is always there. The idea is that if you just changed the delivery of the truth it would somehow make it more palatable to a wider audience.

Who’s It For?

I want reiterate here that it’s never been my goal to write for an audience. Whether it’s writing on this blog, my books or when I’m discussing things on various podcasts my only imperative is to convey the information I think is relevant to the topic of intersexual dynamics. My obligation is to picking apart and considering as close as I can get to an objective truth. And I don’t do this by way of some sense of duty to objectivism – it’s just the way that’s always seemed most efficient to me to come to a usable truth. It’s pragmatism on my part, not dedication.

Yes, I know, true objectivism is impossible for human beings. Yes, I also know that even biases we’re unaware of will subconsciously influence our rationality. Spare me the classicist intellectualism, I’ve been at this long enough to have considered all that. But the fact that objectivism is never perfect doesn’t mean we should strive for our best attempt at it – nor replace it with moralism.

I don’t write for an audience. I write about what I see going on around me and I connect dots. Writers today, of all medias, will tell you to “give your readers what they want” if you want to be successful. Writing about uncomfortable truths that rattle people’s cages is counterintuitive to the write-for-success mindset. If you want to sell books, if you want to monetize blogs, if you want to get more channel subscribers you gotta give the folks what they want, right? That’s how most churches work today; cater the message to the congregation if you want the tithe checks to stay consistent.

And always write to appeal to emotions too. People don’t enjoy thinking, but boy do they ever love feeling something – particularly in an age when female emotiveness is the order of the day.

When I began writing regularly it was in a forum environment. We hashed out many ideas and weren’t afraid to get ugly. It was a necessary part of the process. There was no pretense of appealing to an audience for money, traffic or readership. The sole focus was debating the truth about a dynamic. That debate was always a hot kitchen, but the results were something greater than the process.

As a result my essays carried over a lot of the heat from the SoSuave days kitchen. I wasn’t writing to impress readers or increase traffic to the blog it was just to document and codify the objective truths I came to. There is no monetization and the comment threads have never been moderated (besides spam and trolls). Almost 8 years later my charter is still about the same objective debate.

The drawback to this commitment to objective truth is that it rarely appeals to emotionalism. No, it’s not the ‘tone‘ or the feel of the information being related that’s so off-putting – it’s the information itself, and how it makes one feel, that determines whether it’s perceived as positive or negative.

Feels Before Reals

Most people who are still plugged into the proverbial Matrix are living in a world that prioritizes feels before reals. The purpose of consuming really anything is to judge it by how it makes us feel; and especially so in an era defined by the female experience. Emotion always comes before reason in women’s natural, unlearned, interpretive processes. This is also extended to men who’ve been conditioned to prioritize emotions before reason. And this is exacerbated by their need to be better feelers, better emoters, than those other ‘typical’ guys if they want an emotional woman to ever bear their children at some point.

Anything that prioritizes reason before emotion will always run the risk of being perceived as negative. Even if the sum of the information is positive, the fact that you had to come to the truth by way of reason rather than emotion will make it negative.

If you used your head instead of your heart to figure something out, in Girl-World, at best it’s bad form. At worst, you’re a negative pessimists or a cynic.

Usually those designations are reserved for the men who make a habit of using reason to the exception of emotion to relate an objective truth that’s unflattering to the feminine. Again, it’s the information, not the tone, that’s offensive to the emotions-first prioritization. To the Blue Pill mind, any strong idea that conflicts with this prioritization is an affront to the personal investments they’ve made in ideas that it challenges.

So, understand, I’m not a negative person by nature. I’m an artist. Few people know that my 2nd degree is a BFA. I draw, I paint, I play four instruments, I used to do Shakespearean stage acting – I’ve even done children’s theater.

I fully embrace the emotional as a necessary part of the human experience – Hell, half of Red Pill awareness is acknowledging and confronting emotions. I’m certainly not a cynic or a pessimist. Anyone thinking so usually hasn’t read my work. I’m very much an optimist when it comes to creating a New Hope for men in a Red Pill paradigm. I don’t just stop at clinical realism and leave men hanging. I don’t subscribe to the ennui of the “Black Pill” – I’m certainly not absolutist or a determinist.

However, I also have a commitment and an obligation to objective truth in everything I write. Trust me, there are times I wish I could use my wife and my marriage as a ‘proof of concept’ example of how a Red Pill aware guy can make a relationship work today. But the objective truth would make me look like a charlatan if I tried to convince a man that marriage was at all a good idea in its present state.

That’s tough for me. I have had to hold back from posting pictures of my beautiful wife and daughter to prove something to truly negative naysayers. Ladies, you want me to write something positive about women? I love my wife dearly. She’s been a net benefit to my life for all of 23 years now. My daughter is a model. She’s feminine to a fault and she’s smart and ambitious. I would die for her, gladly.

But I never use my personal life as an example in my work for their protection, but also because I don’t want to lead men astray by in anyway implying that what I have is possible for them. And I’ve had men tell me that, “I want what you have.”

But I don’t make value calls. I consider information, I try to interpret it, and I present it in such a way that it’s useful to men where they’re at. I want to give you tools to use to build your own life, not mine.

Truth & Hustle

Admire the Hustle. We read this a lot in the Manosphere among the guys who fancy themselves entrepreneurs. I think one reason critics think the Red Pill is negative is because all they see is the Hustle. The Hustle has a way of becoming the whole point of anything.

I’m an abortion doctor, but I make six figures and I’m the best at what I do. No one will out-work me. Admire the Hustle baby.

When the selling is more important the the product itself, then you have problems. When the truth is less important than the Hustle inevitably our truth becomes the Hustle. There needs to be a balance and that’s getting harder and harder to find now.

We’re at a moment in the Manosphere where the truth is starting to get lost in the Hustle. I’m accused of it, or I’m accused of associating with ‘too much Hustle’. Well-meaning colleagues with too much perception and not enough information are feeling that salesmen care more about the sale than the product.

I hear you.

Let me finish here by reiterating that my obligation to objective truth will always be my motivation for doing anything I put my name on. It always has been. However, I have worked for amazing companies who sold things that people loved and enjoyed only to watch them crumble and die because the sales team assumed control of the ‘product’. The selling became more important than what was being sold.

My books, my blog, my appearances, every aspect of The Rational Male is my art. I craft each essay. It’s what I care about most. I will never allow the truth to be compromised by the Hustle. The Hustle is important, particularly when it’s about disseminating the truth, but it is secondary to the truth – even to the exception of the Hustle. Sometimes the truth doesn’t sell.

This Is Important

We are rapidly entering a time when our ideas will be vilified. Very soon the objective, life-saving, praxeology that is the Red Pill will be used as a label, as a synonym, for negative ideologies that never had anything to do with the Red Pill. And people who are all about the Hustle will gladly abandon the truth they’re selling now if it means the public opinion of it would compromise their Hustle. It’ll be less about what we’re discussing than how influential and how many followers the person we’re discussing it with has.

Others, those who were appropriating the ‘brand’, will throw the Red Pill under the bus to save their own necks. The coming storm is going to test the resolve of people who are all about the Hustle and all about the Red Pill. I know where my obligations lie, they’ve never changed.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Billy Ockham wants to shave with you.

[–]jm5110 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy

She did not lie. She told him to tell you that she likes you. Orbiter cuck lied and told you she is not interested in you.

I don't think that the orbiter lied. She was interested enough to have the orbiter pass on a shit test to OP. Shit test = Are you worth fucking?

The orbiter didn't know that it was a shit test, hence the bewilderment when he saw her snogging OP.

[–]Toussant2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Orbiter could also just be shocked that OP didn't believe him.

[–]Original_Dankster1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Exactly this. It was a shit test delivered through an unwitting intermediary.

[–]professor_mcamateur4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

what if she was just pissed/annoyed at her "friend" (and horny?) and lied to him on the off-chance that OP would have the cajones to grab her because she maybe knows she's the hot one?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I dunno, sounds like a shit test from the woman to me. Dude may have lied but I'm inclined to think she was just shit testing our rp friend here

[–]Rav_the_slav16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is one of those situations where no= yes. If she had no intentions to get with you she wouldn't have aired them. She would've acted in such way that you wouldn't even have known you had a chance. Now, you do not know what she actually said to the orbiter, he might've tried to cuck you, but if we follow your story, the conversation between them most likely went like this.

HER: hey, what do you think of X?

HIM: Dunno, he seems kind of weird...d-do you like him?

HER: Oh, absolutely not, ha ha...

[–]monkey_typist6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

She could have told something to the orbiter to placate him, because women like attention from orbiters, and she wanted to keep him around.

Probably something stupid like oh I don't even like him that way.

The orbiter then kicked into white knight mode and delivered this message from his fair maiden.

If the orbiter did what you did and showed some balls since day one, he would have gotten much farther than just being an orbiter, or he would have bombed out and wouldn't be wasting his time with her or his money buying you a drink. He'd be hooking up with some other chick instead. Chump move all the way.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

[–]LordThunderbolt32 points33 points  (19 children) | Copy

Hooking up = sex

You were kissing

[–]bostonburrito[S] 25 points26 points  (15 children) | Copy

Is this a US thing? Where I live people refer to hooking up as just kissing.

[–]redblueninja 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy


[–]bostonburrito[S] 20 points21 points  (0 children) | Copy


[–]Acquin9 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy

I'm Aussie and I have to always ask "did you actually fuck or are you just talking about shitty kissing?" when I'm feeling petty

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

In Canada, I always thought hooking up was a general term that encompasses kissing, blowjobs, fucking etc. Everything sexual.

Some people assume it means just fucking, but I still hear others use it to refer to making out. I don’t think there’s a consensus

[–]cdogg750 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I find girls use it to paint broad strokes to what they are really doing, so they have deniability if they are called out on it. "I told the truth"

[–]joedevice2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy


Got off = kissing hooked up = sex

[–]123InigoMontoya1234 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Really seems like "got off" should mean sex... As in "getting your rocks off." But hey, you people invented this language.

[–]kurisuotaku1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

I am UK, and we do not use the word hooked up.

We call it shagging. Or sleep.

Nah I didnt shag him only got off with him.

Nah m8 didn't sleep with him just gorroff with him.

[–]GreatMenderTeapill4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

American here: Sex = I fucked her. Kissed= I fucked her.

[–]joedevice0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

*You don't use hooked up


[–]kurisuotaku1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I've lived in the UK for 31 years, and I've never heard anyone use the term hooked up. You must live in reet Americanized shithole.

[–]joedevice0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Good for you.

[–]yumyumgivemesome1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think it's also an age thing. When I was younger, kissing was a big deal. After college, if you're not banging, you're nothing more than a friend. I've heard my younger cousins in US college refer to kissing as "hooking up."

[–]jovijovi990 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Canada too

[–]123InigoMontoya1230 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah it seems like it's a US thing. I'm American and dated a South African gal for a while. She thought "hooking up" was simply kissing until I taught her to stop saying it in the US.

[–]hawkeaglejesus5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

it's power talk with plausible deniability, it means as little or as much as she or you needs it to depending on how much she wants to reveal.

Hooking up simultaneously means "we made out while watching netflix" and "he fucked me so hard it's left a mark on my uterus for all time"

[–]TitsAndWhiskey1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is correct

[–]nabosch0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

US: Could go both ways, but more often I've found it means making out

[–]GunnarX4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

This story was easy to follow as you referred to each girl by their SMV. This should become a regular thing. Good job, OP.

[–]Original_Dankster0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Agreed. The only problem occurs if there's ever a FR that has multiple women of roughly equivalent SMV. But in this instance, it was very clear to read.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Giving a shit test via orbiter.

I have to say I've never seen that before. Very interesting story.

[–]foggydew422 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

This was definitely a shit test and a very interesting one. Extremely easy to pass to by just ignoring it and escalating.

[–]WISE_TURD4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

If a woman brings up sex first, whether in the negative or positive, it's a good thing.

[–]Endorsed ContributorUEMcGill3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

He made the mistake of listening to her words. What she was saying is "I think I'm attracted to him but on the fence go tell him so I can decide"

You then helped your case by being fun. You still have some work to do because she brought friends. Move to isolate her and don't tolerate game play. If she keeps inviting friends time to ghost. Women don't bring people when they want to fuck.

[–]kurisuotaku4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Obvious, at that moment he was obviously insecure, she was like "it's okay I don't even like him anyway", and he took her seriously.

Its the same as the girl who in one moment tells her orbiters what a dick her boyfriend is and how he treats her terribly, only to dutifully lift her ass up for his cock in the next.

[–]beta_no_mo3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Here's my unprofessional analysis based on what I've learned so far:

  1. She was attracted to you (tingles).

It all starts with attraction. She wanted to have fun and you were leading the way.

  1. The Statement: this was a shit test (and ASD) delivered through the orbiter. Normally, this would have probably been done through the HB6, but she knew he would be more than happy to deliver such a message because she knows he's going to infer that it's going to be him instead.

She wants to keep him around for all of his provider qualities and validation, but she also secretly hates him for being a pussy. All women are repulsed by orbiters, but they're smart enough to know how useful they can be, so they rarely straight up make them go away. They know they don't have to because orbiters gonna orbit.

You passed with flying colors by ignoring what she said and seeing what she does. She no doubt got some major drama from old dude on the backside, but that's her problem.

[–]Questionnaire72 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

She got him to administer the shit test.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

First, immediately after reading that orbitman's message to you, I thought, shit test. My guess is that she wanted to see if you'd get discouraged and leave/get pissy/ignore orbitman.

Either way, you did great. Something I always try to remember is that, your frame is what attracts women. It's your reality when you're in social situations, not hers. If you let the words, actions, intimidation, rejections etc. Of others change your mood or course of action, you're not operating from your frame, but theirs.

Excellent job op. It's your world. 7 and orbitman are either trying to cope with that fact, or testing whether or not it's true.

[–]quicklogaccount2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I was that orbiter a few times man. Here's what went through.

The chick was interested in him and probably entertained the idea of dating him for a while since they're "friends". She would make out with him if he made a move.
You were probably more attractive (even if you weren't, familiarity worsens his position) so she solicited him the information to encourage him. But she was attracted.
Had he made a move, he'd probably have scored. But he didn't. (They're friends, he has a lot invested, it's a risky move for him.) She was attracted to you, you made a move and she hamstered something right away to allow herself to tag along.

Now, she lowered his value and her attraction for him dwindled because of what and how it happened. It'll take a while before he gets another clear shot.

[–]RunawayGrain1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

So why would she go back on her words within a span of 5 minutes? Why would she tell him that in the first place? I just don’t see what she would have to gain from it.

Some girls get off on fucking with their orbiters heads like that.

[–]mrHappyPotatoe0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for the FR. And you already know why she said what ahe said. At that moment it wasnt a lie. After u grabbed her it turned into a lie.

Women are scysophrenics i like to say.

[–]shr3dthegnarbrah0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'd speculate that it came out more like:

7: "Hey, I don't want to hook up with bostonburrito, so why don't you two go get a drink?"

She could've lied a little more than that, but she was already having feels and that was about the last resistance she could muster.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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