I don’t like ONS or Plates. What’s wrong with me? What do I do?

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November 28, 2018

I’ve been in a few LTRs, spun plates for a few years, and have had my fair share of ONS. I struggle to find enjoyment in Plates and ONS both socially and sexually. I derive pretty much no pleasure from condom sex (don’t know why just always been that way) and I’m wary about having unprotected sex where the power of bc is in their hands. I find these short term relationships leave me feeling pretty empty and unsatisfied. I even struggle mustering up the motivation to pursue girls for ONS or Plates because deep down I feel like the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. This has been the case regardless of how hot they are.

I do find pleasure in LTRs and longer term plates that I’m investing in a bit more than usual and vetting for LTR basically. However, there’s inherently problems with this due to the lack of abundance and all of the other usual problems that come with LTRs.

So what do I do? I’ve spent a lot of time trying to like them, but I just don’t. Should I just keep jumping from LTR to LTR knowing eventually I’ll lose frame and abundance and it will fall apart?

Post Information
Title I don’t like ONS or Plates. What’s wrong with me? What do I do?
Author SixtySecondJeep
Upvotes 71
Comments 88
Date 28 November 2018 12:49 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit askTRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/54499
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/asktrp/comments/a15wud/i_dont_like_ons_or_plates_whats_wrong_with_me/
Similar Posts

Red Pill terms found in post:
abundanceframelong term relationshipplateONS

[–]boundarychimps103 points104 points  (16 children) | Copy

  1. Are you using the correct size condoms? Too-small condoms will cut down on feeling way more than correct-size ones.
  2. Nothing is wrong with you. Different people prefer different lifestyles.
    1. If some of the guys here are too insecure to admit that men can enjoy emotional connections, well that's their problem. Connections like that really do make sex better, and are also enjoyable on their own.
  3. Remember that TRP is supposed to be about how to get what you want, and not about what you "should" want.
  4. Finding someone who's good for a stable relationship is very different from finding someone who'll be fun for a fling / ONS. Most of the tactics here are meant for ONS, and can actually be harmful if you want something that will last.
    1. This does not include the self-improvement ones, like lifting and dressing well.
  5. I'd suggest finding social activities that (1) you enjoy, and (2) a lot of unattached women do. Go there to enjoy the activity and meeting new people and be attractive and friendly, and make sure you show that you want more than just sex (very different from BP / niceguy bullshit where you pretend you're not interested in sex at all).

[–]SixtySecondJeep 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Really good advice. Thanks. My only sticking point is 5 as I find most of my hobbies and interests tend to scare off girls lol.

[–]Endorsed ContributorUEMcGill8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

The key to LTR game and abundance is realizing that you have no obligation to stay. Keep fit, keep your finances tight and always have options. It should be her job to constantly meet your expectations. You provide the mission, and she runs support.

So if you do have hobbies and interests that are yours, but not too interesting to women that's ok. I'm a fly fishing junky. My wife has no interest in it, but that's cool. If I tell her, "Going to Alaska for a few days." She holds down the fort and maintains order as part of supporting my mission. She doesn't like my cars, and she's not big on shooting, yet these are still hobbies I enjoy and find fulfilling. They also add to the sense of mild dread that does marriage and LTR's good. Your jacked, do things that you want to do and have fun regardless of whether she is there or not; it instills in her she needs to keep her girl game up, because you got options.

[–]adam_varg0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I am the same way. Lot of men and women are.

I rather don't have sex than fuck with condoms..

Same story with ONS sex btw

[–]shredzro4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Really solid advice. I enjoy seeing people who actually understand trp

[–]OldManGoonSquad0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

Wait can too small condoms really do that? I’ve always hated condoms for the same reason and have had issues with them breaking before

[–]Talinor091 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah I always had an issue with them until I found a decent brand, that fit well and was thin.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

There are charts online of the sizing of different condoms. It's really worth checking out, particularly if you're girthy (no homo, well maybe a little).

[–]OldManGoonSquad0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Yup that’s my issue apparently. Average length, bit above average girth.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Don't buy into the Magnum hype. It's mostly just branding with a similar size.

Durex in the light purple packaging (called "Extra Sensitive") is good for a condom that isn't super thick but works well for thick dicks.

Length isn't going to be an issue on condom size basically ever.

[–]OldManGoonSquad0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Gotcha; thanks man, I appreciate it. I’ll try ‘em out and hopefully it’ll make a difference.

[–]Thizzlebot0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is my biggest problem, I have lots of hobbies that are all solo lol

[–]Poutvora31 points32 points  (0 children) | Copy

Don't delete this in the future OP. I would like to return to it from time to time to read the replies.

[–]red_dread_redemption17 points18 points  (1 child) | Copy

It's a conundrum that I find myself in as well. So, nothing is wrong with you. Quite honestly, I really enjoy a quality LTR. I've had various opportunities for short terms, but never closed, b/c I lacked true attraction/connection/wtf you want to call it (many times girls slept over only to be frustrated by lack of advances). The problem we both face, is the escalated risk when shit goes south, in this gynocentric feminine biased societal structure. And holy shit does a women lose her fucking mind when her expectations aren't met.

Sorry, no answers for you, been wondering it myself. I still miss one of my LTRs. All I can say is I'll ride out the current LTR (no cohabitation, no marriage) until the wheels fall off.

[–]faustian_talos7 points8 points  (27 children) | Copy

How old are you?

[–]SixtySecondJeep 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy


[–]StandardDeparture 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

I'd agree that condom sex sucks compared to going raw, and you probably don't want to do that with randos.

You can serial LTR for a while, just keep in mind that she's not yours, it's just your turn. Read up on LTR game, there are plenty of resources within the RP community. And still, even in LTR, be real careful about going without condoms. Leaves a lot of power in the girl's hands and you never know if you've got a baby-crazy one on your hands - especially if you end up dating around your age or slightly above. Aim for 21-24 IMO.

[–]SixtySecondJeep 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

I know the risks associated with condomless sex, even in LTRs. I vet hardcore for this reason, but I can never completely eliminate the risk I know.

I haven’t gotten LTR game down pat yet I’ll admit. I tend to start off strong and hold frame and slowly but surely BP oozes out and I lose frame without even noticing. The lack of abundance is the other major issue, but I guess that’s just part and parcel of monogamous relationships.

[–]StudyHacks6 points7 points  (16 children) | Copy

Vasectomy my dude, get one. I've got one and it's fucking amazing. I've been doing it with girls raw, no STDs so far and I agree, sex with condoms ain't shit in comparison to raw sex.

[–]SixtySecondJeep 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

I’m 26 and would like to keep my options open for kids in the distant future so not sure a vasectomy is the best option for me but thanks it is a great solution for some.

[–]StudyHacks11 points12 points  (8 children) | Copy

Yeah for sure. I have had it done because I never wanted to have kids in the first place, and like some commenters have pointed out, don't want to be controlled by a woman in terms of whether she'll get "accidentally" pregnant or not. For me it's like this: I do not want kids, ever, and I'm not going to let her be impregnated by me just because she's absolutely desperate to lock me down, fuck no. For me that'd be a trap.

But since I've had it done I can do it raw. I never tell them I'm 100% infertile, they just end up wondering why they haven't gotten pregnant. One of them even asked me "are you sick?" because she didn't get pregnant, lmao.

[–]SixtySecondJeep 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Lol. It does sound nice not having to worry about it. If you know for certain you don’t want kids it sounds like that’s perfect for you then.

[–]StudyHacks0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy


[–]Atheist_Utopia-2 points-1 points  (3 children) | Copy

But you don't want to leave a legacy behind? You live and die like nothing happened?

[–]airmcnair060 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

How much was your vasectomy? Was it covered under insurance? I want to get one. If I remember correctly, they can be reversed later on in life

[–]StudyHacks1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It cost me 1000 Euros. No, it wasn't. Yes, it can be if you decide you want to be made fertile again, tho that only has 30% success rate afaik.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

You really should check out blackdragon's blog, I think it'll give you great clarity on how to go about living an LTR life while being red pill and avoiding a lot of blue pill mistakes like marrying for children.

[–]KilgorrreTrout1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

One option is to have some sperm frozen first and then get the snip. I've been thinking about doing this. I'm still undecided about having kids myself but this is one way you can be sure you're getting the right person pregnant when you want to. Also with advances in science it may soon become trivial to decide ahead of it you want a boy or girl if that's important to you.

[–]SixtySecondJeep 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Not saying this is the worst idea but it blows me away the lengths people will go to cheat biology lol.

[–]KilgorrreTrout1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Haha. I'm not saying I would necessarily go as far as trying plan the gender of my child, personally. But the option of knowing exactly when and whom I get pregnant is appealing.

[–]adam_varg0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

So do what i do.

Made your partner, be it longterm plate or commited ltr, to get copper IUD. It is the most reliable contraception and there is no way she can get rid of it without you knowing. To make it even more safe or before iud is there, i finish in ass or mouth..

[–]ChadTheWaiter1001 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

What is your Ltr game like Brody?

[–]SixtySecondJeep 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

I always start out strong. Over time I tend to get comfortable or complacent and lose frame. BP starts ooze our of the cracks slowly but surely. A big hurdle for me has been keeping abundance once in a committed monogamous LTR.

My game outside of LTR is solid and I usually have plenty of options.

[–]ChadTheWaiter100-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

What is your physical condition like? Height, weight and estimated body fat percentage.

[–]faustian_talos1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Dude chill.

Focus on yourself a bit.

[–]SixtySecondJeep 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Okay so just focus on myself and don’t have sex?

[–]faustian_talos-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

Monk mode?

[–]sixtyearths32 points33 points  (8 children) | Copy

What's the value of frame/abundance if you don't enjoy it? Unless your goal is to impress the members of this forum, the only reason you should do anything is because it makes you happy and fulfilled.

There are people in this sub who will call "beta" the second they hear you want to see a girl more than once, but if those opinions don't match your experience, they're useless to you. "Adapt what is useful, reject what is useless"

trp is a methodology for getting sex, not a methodology for living a happy life.

[–]Xkirbyx2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy

That’s where you’re wrong, a lot of structure that I didn’t receive from a healthy male figure in my childhood I received from reading comments and post on TRP. If you’re using this betterment for the sole purpose of sex then you’re fuckin up. This is to better yourself as a damn human being and be a healthy male figure in our broken society now. All the tools are here it’s on you on how you’re using them

[–]empatheticapathetic0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

It all ends up in the same place eventually.

[–]Xkirbyx0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Ok how so?

[–]empatheticapathetic2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

We all reach the same conclusions eventually through wisdom or experience if we’re all following the same rulebook and ideology (TRP).

If he’s chasing sex he will eventually succeed and get to the same point you may be at now. Or he could realise this ahead of an excess of experiences based on other people’s wisdom and his own more passive observations of life.

Shaming him for not being as woke as you is redundant. He will get there when he gets there. Asking questions such as this is part of this process.

[–]sixtyearths0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

What bands these subreddits together is the methodology of achieving sex, and that focus on sex can be seen in every item in the glossary, and every instructional post.

The relevant exception here is confidence/self-care. Care of your body and mind are important habits for happiness and getting sex, and that's why r thankTRP is full of appreciation for this aspect, and that's a benefit it has shown you.

No methodology for living a happy life would be complete without tactics for helping with confidence. It just so happens confidence is important for achieving sex as well, and that is the only reason it's discussed here in trp forums.

Your life has improved from using these tactics, and that's completely valid. Guides on the internet have helped me with confidence in ways I wish I'd had as a child too.

[–]cant__find__username4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

This is garbage. TRP can also be used for a happy life. TRP is a tool box. You can use it to develop yourself, your career, and your relationships. TRP is a way of life not a map to life.

OP, do what works for you. Use the tools that work for you.

[–]sixtyearths8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes, it can be used for a happy life, but this sub is full of people having contradictions between their feelings and what trp recommends. People regretting breaking off contact with a girl, or OP's confusion about wanting a LTR. The general view that women are black boxes that you press buttons to get the reactions you want is not the quickest way to happiness.

A methodology for achieving sex can be used as a good proxy for a path to happiness for some people at some stages of their life. The immediate gains in confidence in this important area of life it's been lacking can be tremendously beneficial.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (1 child) | Copy

Idk about anyone else but I love the phrase "the juice aint worth the squeeze". Just sayin.

Maybe try going no sex with women while determining their LTR capacity. Also, try to meet women in more wholesome environments than bars/clubs or coffeeshops. One of my own personal favorite places to find higher quality women is Rec sports leagues/events such as triathlons, trail runs, bjj tournaments, Ultimate Frisbee leagues...much more my style and they tend to attract a healthier, more wholesome kind of person than anything in the party scene.

[–]Turkerthelurker2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

One of my own personal favorite places to find higher quality women is Rec sports leagues/events such as triathlons, trail runs, bjj tournaments, Ultimate Frisbee leagues...much more my style and they tend to attract a healthier, more wholesome kind of person than anything in the party scene.

A massive +1 to this

Paddle boarding, popular hiking locations, 5k/10k/Half marathons, kayaking, volleyball leagues as well.

[–]Ohboohoolittlegirl9 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy

Same here, I've spun plates, picked up girls and had lots of FWB. However, it's just not the same.. problem is that I'm no longer willing to risk a lot for an LTR and I cannot deny female nature... I stopped chasing pussy. I'll take a girl home whose obviously into me and have sex and that's it

[–]SixtySecondJeep 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

You’ve pretty much described my perspective here. It’s hard to mentally keep pursuing LTRs and investing knowing female nature will shine through eventually and it will fall apart.

Do you think it’s possible to maintain and continue LTRs if you keep your frame solid, continue to game your LTR, and keep abundance high or are they all destined to fail regardless?

[–]TheYoonFather1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It will fail if that’s what you lead yourself to believe. It can succeed if you believe it can. I know that sounds cliche but making the generalization that they are all “destined” to fail is a toxic mindset to have.

While a lot of marriages fail, a lot still succeed. Yours can succeed too if you become the best you can be and change your “destined to fail” mindset. You control your destiny man.

A lot of women at some point or another want to settle down for marriage and kids. They are only going to do that with the highest smv man available to them. I think you are self sabotaging yourself. Maybe internalizing too much RP. I have never really bought into the AWALT generalization. People are too complex to make such generalizations.

[–]TheRedPillMonkey4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy

Should I just keep jumping from LTR to LTR knowing eventually I’ll lose frame and abundance and it will fall apart?

This is your problem. Never drop frame and never lose abundance. Especially in a LTR. It sounds like you don't know how to properly be in one or vet. A plate and a good LTR can be awesome if the chick is awesome.

[–]SixtySecondJeep 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

I tend to start out strong in LTRs but eventually lose frame so I admit I haven’t fully figured out the RP LTR yet due to my own fault, but I do find frame naturally starts to break down in an monogamous LTRs due to the lack of abundance. I’ve vetted heavily prior to LTR and LTR’d “awesome” chicks. Female nature comes out eventually even in the “good” and loyal girls if I lack abundance.

[–]inspiredshane5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy

You’re performing. No one writes PUA for guys in LTR, so you eventually run out of performance material and revert back to your true, non-performance self.

You have to get to the point where you’re pulling without trying games or tricks or gimmicks to get a girl to like you. This performance is inherently dishonest, and it means you’re trying to get someone to like you. This is needy and unattractive.

Ironically, the solution is to “be yourself” for a while. Not in the way everyone says, “Just be yourself,” but in a way where you’re actively using your frame to say some raw, honest shit courageously and put your true vulnerable self out there and fuck up your chances of having sex.

You need to be OK with her slapping you in the face when you speak. And... as silly as it sounds, the best way to get over that fear is to live through it and realize it doesn’t kill you.

Done right, you’ll attract and repel women based on who you actually are. This means going out with women you genuinely care about, and who genuinely care about the actual you. And there will be no performance that extends throughout the LTR that you eventually “run out of material” for. So, there won’t be any backsliding, or regression, or losing frame.

Where before you would regress into an old BP version of yourself after 6 - 18 months, now you already were yourself all along. You’ve just changed who you are, so when you are yourself... that self is enough.

Why? Because you put the work in, up front, before you even met your LTR. You dated a lot of women, and honestly put yourself in a vulnerable position with 10x as many as you’ve dated.

[–]IronMonk482 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

This is straight from Mark Manson's "Models". Good advice.

[–]inspiredshane2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

It is! I’ve yet to find a better book on the subject because of this very idea. The Rational Male is a close second, but the writing is terribly edited. It’s like he just copied and pasted his first draft blog posts into a collection and said fuck it.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Glad to see a lot of good answers here. I'm also LTR-oriented despite being RP'd and having a decent notch count.

You have no problem. Some people invest in quantity while some in quality. As someone who recently fucked up their LTR with a beautiful girl who checked all the right green flags, I only have this advice:

Keep yourself in check.

In the beginning, I followed everything TRP to a T. She followed suit perfectly. It also was just me being natural, since I naturally act pretty RP after dumping my beta conditioning. She adored me for my authenticity and the connection we had.

Over time, though, I saw what power I had and started to abuse it. It was a one-way open relationship, and I was far too careless both in who I fucked and how I told her. I also tried to restrict what she could do far too much and put too much pressure on her. While she abided, resentment built and her mental health deteriorated. A once happy, care-free, sexy-but-good girl had to go to therapy to seek counseling because I destroyed her. She also hooked up with someone else as soon as we ended because she was just absolutely shattered that I ended things with her despite what I put her through.

So, as someone who obtained what I used to call the dream TRP LTR only to then ruin it and the girl in the process (and feel terrible about myself for having done so), I say to watch yourself. Apply TRP, internalize it, let a chick hang on your every word. But do not abuse that power--it will blow up in your face.

Essentially, what it comes down to is that most people here will tell you to be Alpha in a relationship. You need to be more than just that. There's essentially two types of Alphas--an evil, dark triad Alpha, and a nice Alpha. I was far too much the former. So, I will give advice I wish I had and that's to focus on more than just being Alpha. Girls will stick like glue to either Alpha, but the dark triad Alpha will decimate their sanity. You have to be nice and caring too, for an LTR to work. I'm currently working on those traits in myself. You are a Christian, so you will certainly not openly fuck other girls in your LTR, but I am giving you the advice both because I wish I had it and for any others who may read this. An LTR goes beyond just getting a high quality chick hooked to you, which is not the problem most face--but I wish someone had warned me anyways. It also can happen in any situation. My LTR was more physically attractive than I am, so one would think this wouldn't happen. If you abuse TRP, it still can. (By abuse TRP, I mean things like overdoing 'idgaf,' 'dread,' 'boundaries,' 'pre-selection,' even 'leadership,' etc. I basically took a HB4 plate, trained her in the gym to be a HB8, showed I could get real HB8s, showed I had high social value and am seriously talented enough at several things to potentially warrant future fame, set many boundaries enforced by ruthless dread such as just fucking hot chicks, showed pre-selection by the amount of dudes irl who ask me how I get the chicks I do despite looking pretty average, was fun to be around with top-notch humor and wit, and was bi-polar as fuck and often insulted her. All this resulted in her seeing me as invaluable to her life, clearly leagues ahead of what she deserved as a former chubby girl, and a capable leader who could steer us both in the right direction. On the flip side, she basically constantly feared losing me and it quite literally drove her to insanity. There's both good and bad to be taken from this, and no, I'm not proud, so learn from my mistakes.)

[–]SixtySecondJeep 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Hey man. Sorry to hear all that. First, I just want to say I have shared both similar and opposite experiences with so many things you mentioned. You sound pretty hard on yourself and you should really try to forgive yourself for what happened. We are human beings. No matter how Alpha or high SMV or Red Pilled we become, we still make mistakes and we are flawed creatures. TRP gives us good insight into the way things are and offers suggestions on how to navigate it, but in reality there is no playbook for any of this shit and we are all just trying to figure it out as best we can as we go. The important thing is that we are sorry for our mistakes and we forgive ourselves. It is also important to understand that while you may feel you have brought harm to her, you are not completely at fault for her problems. Problems are problems because of our perception to a certain stimulus. The stimulus is only part of the equation. I think you should acknowledge that you unknowingly provided a harmful stimulus, forgive yourself and seek forgiveness (from God or the Universe or her or whoever you need to) and wish the best for her and yourself. Use the experience to become a better man and person.

Second, I want to acknowledge that this goes both ways. I was like you and lost a relationship because I was too Dark Triad RP. Then, I found a girl who checked all the boxes for LTR material. To this day she checks all the boxes. I ended up losing her too because I was too wary of being too RP with her that I gradually flipped to beta and lost her. I tell you this so you keep this in mind. LTRs are not easy. They require you to put in a lot of work. Don’t let the pendulum swing too far to the other side.

Best of luck to you man.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks man, helpful advice. Wish you the best.

I'm not totally condemning myself or anything, but I do take part of the blame as I should. I'm just going to try to be better next time. Very true there is no playbook--I just did TRP things, and she was unbelievably into me. Too into me. It was my first LTR, and I just couldn't handle everything thrown at me.

Yeah, I'm not going to be too beta next time. I naturally fall at a level that would clinically declare me a psychopath--I completely lack empathy. I feel very low impulses to do "nice guy" things, so I need to put more of a focus on doing that in the future--which is ironically the opposite of what most guys have to do. My LTR would comment that beyond the first time I said it I would never say "I love you," I'd never buy her any gifts, never do any of that stuff, was much more cold than warm and affectionate. While it's good to not overdo those traits, not doing them at all to a girl who's head-over-heels for you is like punishment to them. I don't really have it in me to overdo beta traits because I'm just a cold person, so that shouldn't be much of a problem. It's amazing girls like me, honestly. Evolution is so fucked up--I should not have made a girl like me so much, if the world were fair. That may sound like I hate myself, but I don't--I just recognize the traits that I have. But yeah, I'll add more beta next time without adding too much. It's just a shame because the girl--who I recently lost, days ago--was an amazing catch. Not in a one-itis way, but in a she was always instantly the sexiest girl in the room but also fun to have around and 100% devoted to me kind of way. The type of relationship one only stumbles across a couple times in a lifetime.

But yeah, I'll get my shit together. Thanks man. Best of luck to you too.

[–]BusterVadge3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

There's nothing wrong with preferring LTR to Plate/ONS. There's a certain level of closeness that can't be had unless you're in a LTR.

I do find pleasure in LTRs and longer term plates that I’m investing in a bit more than usual and vetting for LTR basically. However, there’s inherently problems with this due to the lack of abundance and all of the other usual problems that come with LTRs.

Why can't you be in a LTR and still have abundance? Flirt with other women, just don't sleep with them. Abundance doesn't always have to mean sleeping with other women, it can simply mean that if your LTR ends you have your pick.

That's exactly what happened with me. My LTR ended, and I got to sleep with a few girls I was gaming during my LTR. It took some of the sting off of the break up.

[–]Flintblood1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

I’m with you. I have about half a dozen potential tinder matches who want to have long text sessions (i’m really trying to keep it to just logistics, but they want to have long chatty text sessions). However, I’m finding myself increasingly disenchanted. There is something kind of depressing about the dating app method, but I can’t quite put my finger on it.

I would prefer to focus on one person at a time, and someone I get to know through work, or through a common interest. I still feel some of the longings for an LTR or oneitis from when I used to live exclusively from the blue pill mindset.

[–]SixtySecondJeep 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

I don’t necessarily think it is a BP mindset to want an LTR. Human beings are designed to have meaningful relationships with one another I think. It does, however, feel quite hopeless at times.

I would be wary about relationships with coworkers. I’ve personally seen that have bad ramifications.

[–]Turkerthelurker1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don’t necessarily think it is a BP mindset to want an LTR.

R vs K selection breeding strategies

[–]Musicgoon1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I wanted to also add to this. You can be red pilled in a LTR or marriage. Go to the married red pill sub or askMRP. It definitely is the next level in game. It can be done, but it's some serious time and commitment and you're playing on hard mode.

[–]muddynips1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Masturbate less. Fishing is better when you're hungry.

[–]Musicgoon1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

There's no hard rules for how you live your life. You can always upgrade a plate to a FWB. Or if you vet her better a LTR. It can change constantly and how far you go depends on your own rules.

From reading more it sounds like you haven't connected on a more personal level with women. It will drain you mentally. I've said it before.... Don't be all cock and no heart. You have to have passion or this shit becomes utility. Terry taking some chicks out on dates doing stuff that YOU want to do.

Just remember to control the frame. Now if things progress to LTR status. (I would recommend open LTR) make sure you keep control of the two major pitfalls. Don't cohabitate, you will lose all of your power and don't knock her up. Another losing venture and loss of power.

I think condom sex sucks. I went to the doc and got snipped. Most STI's are curable and you can always get on TRUVADA if you're worried about the big bad one...

At the end of the day, it's your life and your happiness. If you're nit happy make some adjustments. You've got this. Pilot your ship!

[–]z2a1-91 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Do you bro!

[–]deltron801 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Sounds like you're K-selected, which is actually better than being r-selected. Try finding a conservative girl and make some babies.

[–]downvotesanimals1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Unlike some of the folks here, I don't think the crux of your issue is condom usage... or at least, that's not what I'll focus on.

I've had moments where hookups get boring as well... just going through the motions (no pun intended). Banging lots of randos is nice from time to time, but certainly gets boring and... well... time spent with a higher quality woman is time better spent than with whichever local pub skank happens to want to fuck you at the moment.

Use this to your advantage. Most guys are obsessed with how much they hook up. You're in a better position if you don't care. Focus on yourself and wait for the quality chicks to come around.

[–]Eldudearino891 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

Im going to go against the grain here. Taking it a bit further than just flirting. Why not if you have a plate that you've been seeing for a while 6+ months plus bump her up to a meaningful love filled relationship while continuing to see someone on the side. (I.E. Open Relationship) That way you don't lose your abundance mentality, or the frame you're worried about. There are women out there that you can do this with. That way if/when it ends you're a step ahead. Just a suggestion. May your decision come peacefully to you.

[–]SixtySecondJeep 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Thank you. There’s 3 reasons. The first honest answer is that it’s a moral issue for me due to my Christian beliefs that I am not willing to abandon. I know many will disagree, but that is the truth. Also, it would be quite hypocritical of me to expect monogamy from her end while not being monogamous myself. If she’s not monogamous, she’s not an LTR material in my opinion nor would I want to subject myself to an open relationship in which an LTR is able to have sex and/or feelings for other men. Lastly, I find relationships to be more rewarding in general when they are monogamous.

[–]Eldudearino892 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Then you answered your own question if LTR's are what you truly want. Im a former Christian turned Agnostic so I understand where you are coming from. Maybe check out Married Red Pill out to see some pros & cons. How to navigate a LTR more efficiently I'm sure there are some Christian guys in there. Just know your game, frame, and everything is going to have to be A+++ for any hope of succeeding.

[–]CalfReddit-2 points-1 points  (2 children) | Copy

The solution to this is, stop being a Christian. Also, being afraid of an open relationship because she might fuck other guys comes out of an insecure attitude.

[–]SixtySecondJeep 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

I clearly said above I’m not willing to abandon my beliefs. Also not about fear as much as the fact that I see nothing RP about sharing your girl with other men.

[–]CalfReddit0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Claiming a girl doesn't sound RP to me either. But without getting into an argument, often if you fuck the girl properly and have proper aftercare, she won't fuck others because she only wants you..

[–]CainPrice1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

It sounds like your problem is that you're not connecting with your plates. Maybe you're not letting yourself.

Sex isn't just friction. If it were, you could just use your hand and avoid dealing with women altogether and it would be just as good.

Sex is about connecting with another person. It's about the involvement of another human. That's what makes it good, and not just friction. If you're just picking up girls, without really knowing or connecting with them or appreciating what they're like as humans in any way, primarily just to enjoy the sense of power and validation and the friction on your penis, you're missing the point of sex. You're supposed to like the people you have sex with.

I'm not saying you have to be madly in love, deeply emotionally involved, or on the path to marriage with a woman. You just have to connect a little. Let yourself actually know the woman, like her, appreciate things about her. Really notice and enjoy things about her, specifically, that make her who she is. Connect. You don't have to fall in love. You don't have to have a relationship if you don't want one. But you should be meeting people you like and choosing them for sex because you like them, and enjoying what makes them likeable and fun.

[–]SixtySecondJeep 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

I do have a hard time connecting with people in general but especially girls outside of LTRs. Any tips to overcome this?

[–]CainPrice0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The same way you'd connect with a man or a girlfriend. Take an actual interest in people and pay attention to what they say. Ask questions. Be interested. Learn something from others.

Hey, maybe a lot of women you meet are stupid and boring and terrible or uninteresting human beings that you don't like at all. I guess you can still take them home if you want, but that's mostly just friction. If you have the choice, at least take home someone fun and interesting. The sex will be more fun. It will be sex with -her- as opposed to just sex.

[–]ThreeEyez0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Hey man absolutely nothing wrong with that. LTR’s are awesome and can be more fulfilling if done right. All I can say is make sure you’re fucking solid as a man and a human being before you enter a LTR. Basically what I mean is actively keep your shit together, keep your insecurities and negative thoughts in check, and fuck her good. Another big thing is don’t sell yourself short when it comes to picking the right girl for a relationship. Make sure she’s worth it. It’s a big investment! Date around, enjoy life, have fun, and the right girl who’s on the same wavelength as you will come around.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Don't have one night stands or plates. Cultivate long-term FWBs and LTRs. Just learn how to manage them better.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Spinning plates is a tool to keep an abundance mindset. If you're able to hold that when dating one girl then you don't need to spin plates. The problem that a lot of guys have is they catch oneitis and overlook the red flags they would have seen if they were seeing multiple women.

Spinning plates isn't necessary. It's also not wrong to seek and LTR. The end goal of most of us is an LTR. Just recognize the red flags and stay in your frame.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Do whatever feels right to you.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I'm the same way too, and there's nothing wrong with that. Plates can be fun and all, but I have the most sociosexual fun when I'm in some form of a relationship. It may be an LTR, may be an MLTR, may be an OLTR. The point is to have fun and do what you want. A lot of the advice on asktrp and on the main sub can be geared towards ONS/Plates and Tinder game/night game. I find myself most comfortable running day game, and attracting and being with more substantial women, even if they're one peg hotter sometimes. An 8 I enjoy being with is, ceteris paribus, better than a 9 I don't, and a 10 who I don't care about. I would recommend checking out blackdragon's blog, a reliable source for guys like you and me, that a lot of Red pill theory comes out of and is well applied.

One thing though that I feel others aren't mentioning. Ask yourself why you prefer LTRs over ONS/Plates. There is no right answer except the right answer for you, but it would be valuable for you to understand why. For example, in my case I found it to be because of incorrect bluepill pre-conceived notions I had about myself and my masculinity and an aspect of unresolved emotions related to my emotional security. I was using LTRs as a way to justify to myself that I was in an emotionally secure and happy place, as many blue pill and some red pill men may still do. So make sure you're doing it for the right reasons. Women, whether ONS, Plates or LTRs, are only ever along for the ride, they are not the ride, you're the main attraction and the prize, it was only your turn and having an LTR, and women in general, will not make you happy, you are responsible for your own personal happiness. As long as you're clear with these important mental paradigms and clear and have good reasons on why you prefer LTRs, use the tools red pill gives you to go after what you want, and not an idea of what you should want. The latter destroys the soul faster than anything.

[–]icarebot0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I care

[–]1Terminal-Psychosis-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

You have not tried either enough to judge.

[–]Internet-Troll-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

Are you a guy or girl? What do you mean the power is in their hand when you guys don't use condoms?

I thought you have the power because in or out it up to you?

[–]phareux-3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Maybe u like men

[–]Prysefighter-3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You're gay

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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