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Why women aren't attracted to men who "love" them

Reddit View
May 21, 2016

In this post I try to solve the conundrum that a lot of guys face: why does it look like girls like guys that don't give a shit about them? The usual answers are simplistic: girls want what they can’t have; aloof guys look like they have higher value; aloof guys seem more interesting or mysterious, etc… All of these answers are right to a degree, but they don’t tell the whole story. So I came up with my own explanation:

Needy love: Our society exalts love as the greatest good, the pinnacle of human life, etc… But the problem is that our society sees “love” as purely an emotion. What our society calls love I call needy love, defined as a set of ultimately selfish emotions including the desire to have sex, the desire for physical affection, the desire for an ego boost, the desire for validation, etc… This is not a complete list, but the specific emotions are not important – the point is that these emotions are selfish in that they consist of YOU wanting something from the other person without regard for what they want. There are, of course, other conceptions of love: the Bible (and many other traditional societies) saw love as a contract between two parties that has little to do with emotion. But our society sees love as purely emotion without the accompanying obligation – when your “emotions” run out, you’ve “fallen out of love” and you can go find somebody else with no consequences.

The emotions that make up “needy love” are our strongest emotions, so needy love hijacks our thoughts and convinces us we have a deep connection with the other person. People don’t think “Wow I am under the influence of a bunch of extremely strong chemicals in my brain” but instead think “this is my soulmate.” That is why “love” is the subject of countless poems, movies, love songs, etc… and an object of worship in our society.

Needy love emotions are different for men and women. Women, for example, feel a strong attraction to “confident” men, whereas men, although they like confident women, don’t have the same emotional reaction to confidence. Men, on the other hand, place more weight on physical appearance than women do. Overall, the checklist that has to be satisfied for women to fall into needy love is much longer than men’s, which is part of the reason women take longer to fall in love and are more “flaky.” The reason relationships are so hard is that just because you feel needy love towards a woman doesn’t mean she feels the same needy love back – they have a different process going on in their brain.

One of men’s strongest needy love emotions is their overwhelming desire for sex right away, so men “fall in love” and emotionally over-invest in a relationship much quicker than women. That’s why men are a lot more likely to be “creepy” than women –their “needy love” emotions activate much quicker. However, the needy love emotions are much stronger in women and once a woman “falls in love” she is much more likely to become clingy and needy.

Negative needy love: Here is the dark side of needy love: while the needy love emotions make you feel good for a while, they have an incredibly destructive negative component. Feelings of attachment, sexual desire, acceptance, etc…, can quickly change to neediness, depression, desperation, loneliness, anger, resentment, etc… if the person rejects you. Needy love is like crack – the highs are amazing, but the lows are terrible. The Greek philosopher Plato wrote that “erotic” love is ultimately dangerous because it makes you irrationally value a person when they like you, and then irrationally hate them when they don’t. As we all know, love can literally drive a person crazy and cause one to become violent, stalk somebody, fall into deep depression, etc… “Love” has ruined countless people’s lives. On a subconscious level everybody knows that a person in the grip of needy love is basically insane.

Vicarious emotions Human beings have a weird ability to feel emotions vicariously through other people. For example, if you see a guy get hit by a car, you feel “bad” for him because you FEEL as if you yourself got hit by a car,. You don’t logically think to yourself “oh that must suck to get hit by a car.”. The Scottish philosopher Adam Smith said the basis for human sympathy is the fact that we feel through the eyes of the others. That’s why you oftentimes don’t have sympathy for people experiencing problems you haven’t experienced.

One reason needy love so intense is that you feel the other persons emotions vicariously: not only do you feel your own emotions towards them, but you also literally enter their mind and feel their emotions towards you, so being in love is like an infinite loop of emotions. You love them, you feel them loving you, you then feel them feeling you loving them, etc… It’s insane and part of the reason why “love” is such a complicated mindfuck. But beware: YOU CANNOT ACTUALLY READ THEIR MIND SO YOU PROJECT EMOTIONS ONTO THEIR BRAIN THAT THEY MAY NOT HAVE. Oftentimes when guys get “oneitis” it is not only because they desire the other person, but because they’ve tricked their minds into thinking the other person desires them when they don’t.

Women (and men) are disgusted by needy love The main point of this article and the reason why women like men who don’t give a shit about them is this: women are disgusted by needy love. If a woman sees a guy displaying the needy love emotions, she immediately become turned off because she vicariously feels that he is becoming crazy. She knows that the man WANTS something (not just something, A LOT) from her. This puts pressure on her because now somebody’s happiness is dependent on her. She knows that he is constantly thinking about her and if she fucks up even a little (i.e., forgets to call him back, says something weird, etc…) he will become angry and disappointed. The guy goes from a regular, nice, attractive dude to an irrational robot that wants and needs something from her. Worse yet, the woman knows that if the guy doesn’t get what he wants, he will become depressed/rejected/angry. Because women don’t want to “hurt” the other person, they just disappear – they literally reject you because they don’t want to reject you. The fucked up thing is that women feel all this subconsciously, so they don’t really know why they are getting turned off: they just know that the guy is doing something that is repelling them.

All women have felt needy love before so when they sense it in somebody else they know exactly what is going on. However, women feel needy love on a much stronger level than men so when a man displays a tiny bit of neediness, the woman interprets that as more than it really is because women don’t understand how men’s emotions work. One thing I have noticed is that the clingiest/neediest women oftentimes give out the harshest rejections – it makes sense: these women reject guys the hardest because they themselves know full well know what its like to be needy and they know its terrifying.

Also, because the needy love emotions are at the forefront of women’s minds, a woman can sense needy love in a guy when he himself doesn’t even see it. Worse yet: super attractive women have so many men fall in love with them that they may assume a man is displaying needy love to them even if he isn’t. Some women (especially women that get hit on a lot) interpret simple, everyday actions by the guy (having polite conversation, buying them a drink) as insane needy love – remember we said that vicariously feeling emotions doesn’t mean that you will actually know what they are feeling. If you’re a super hot girl in America in 2014, you have tons and tons of people displaying needy love towards you: the cashier at the grocery store, your 15 ex-boyfriends who can’t get over you, other girls who are jealous of you/want to be you, etc… A person who is genuinely emotionless towards you is a breath of fresh air.

Finally, beyond the subconscious level, women are turned off by needy love because needy people are just not fun to be around. They agree with everything you say, don’t say anything interesting/provocative, laugh at all your jokes, and don’t challenge you/call you out on your bullshit. Basically you are useless. Furthermore, people under the influence of needy love act irrationally, talk stupid, act creepy, and display more negative emotions (jealousy, disappointment) than positive ones.

Please keep in mind that our brains can subconsciously pick up a person acting out of needy love, and the signs are often very subtle. Imagine a person saying “hey how are you”? A person can say those same words as a merely nice guy, but another person acting out of needy love will betray their neediness in their body language, tone of voice, eye contact, etc… On a logical level there is no difference, but your subconscious emotions will be able to pick up that the person is displaying needy love. That’s why a lot of guys fail when they pretend to not give a shit – they have to actually not give a shit. It is a very delicate dance to not display needy love – you need to carefully choose your words, and you need to monitor your subject closely to see if you are freaking her out. I’ve noticed that really emotional, shitty girls are even more prone to freaking out when guys act needy. You can be having an amazing time all night but then the slightest nudge of needy love freaks them out and sends them running. You should stay away from girls like this in the first place, but the point remains: sometimes even a subtle, slight bit of neediness puts the subject on the defensive. Remember, freaking out over needy love is a subconscious process so they may THINK they like you but they will feel a revulsion if you are being needy.

Don’t girls want to be loved? Well… not exactly. I mean, of course on a logical level they think they want to be loved, but nobody really wants to be the object of somebody’s needy love. What women really want is a guy THEY CAN LOVE. As a guy, you need to just get out of the way and let her love you and not say or do anything to fuck it up. Remember, needy love emotions are selfish, so a girl will send needy love to you all day but then freak out when you send that same needy love back. Of course, girls want certain things from guys, like attention, somebody who will listen to them, sex, etc… It’s ok to give those things in the right times and right amounts. But the full panoply of needy love emotions often freaks them out, especially if the guy’s needy love is stronger than theirs. Another way to put it is this: women want to be loved on a logical level: they want a guy who is attentive, cares about them, isn’t needy, isn’t selfish, and isn’t an asshole.

Girls aren’t impressed with needy love. A lot of girls have had shitty ex-boyfriends who were full of needy love but still treated her like shit (in fact, being fully of needy love makes you more likely to treat a girl badly because you are more likely to be angry and emotional). The creep at the bar that talked to her for 5 minutes will start displaying needy love. So a girl will not say “oh this guy isn’t expressing needy love towards me, he doesn’t like me.” Also, girls know that the needy love emotions are temporary and wildly fluctuate, so a guy who is under the spell of needy love could easily fall in “love” with another girl tomorrow and leave alone. One thing I’ve noticed is that the most “slutty” girls post the most quotes about “love” on their Facebook and stuff. Why is this? They can’t control their emotions and live in a world of needy love, and needy love doesn’t actually care about the actual person you love. When somebody else tickles your emotions you move onto them and forget the first person you were needy loving. If you love a girl “logically” you are actually doing her more of a service than if you love her with needy love. Logical love is more solid and pure than needy love.

So what should a man do? If you want to get a girl to like you, talk to her, be nice to her, joke with her, etc… But just don’t display the needy love emotions. Treat the girl like any other dude you know. Don’t say anything that implies that you “need” anything from her, don’t stare at her too long, don’t follow her around, don’t demand her attention, don’t do things for her, etc… If you’re out with her, don’t make her feel “responsible” for you – make her feel like you could totally walk away and do your own thing and it wouldn’t bother you. In fact, you should err on the side of slightly being a “dick” because a lot of really hot girls will interpret normal behavior as needy love. It will be hard, because you’ve been taught by society (i.e., romantic comedies and Disney movies) that the way to court girls is to kiss their ass and tell them all about your deep and passionate needy love. And of course your emotions are going to want to make you act needy. Control your emotions! Another danger is that the girl will start showing interest so you will think “it’s ok for me to start showing needy love now.” No!! Needy love is always bad, and just because you’ve been making out and staring into each other’s eyes doesn’t mean its ok to bring out your needy love.

After some practice (and abundance mentality) you will be able to snap out of it. It’s hard to act emotionless so you will fuck up. Some guys slip back into needy mode after the girl shows some interest, or they will “ignore” the girl, causing her to think you are uninterested or an asshole or playing games. But its like weightlifting – once you get to a certain point you will be unstoppable.

But won’t I friendzone myself? Good question. Yes, if you completely act emotionless around a girl, she may think you are uninterested. So you need to do 2 things: 1) tell her you are interested. Ask her on a date. A lot of guys are afraid of asking girls on dates because they don’t want to look needy, but if you can ask a girl on a date without displaying needy love you will intrigue and excite her. It’s a great deal for her! She can get all the fun and excitement of a date without the burden of dealing with a guy that wants a bunch of shit from her, and 2) do all the things you’ve learned in seduction: eye contact, deep, intelligent conversations, kino, escalate, etc… It is possible to do all these things without showing needy love. You may ask: how can one escalate with a girl sexually without making it look like you want to fuck her … well, it’s an art (see the push pull method).

Check out my blog:

Post Information
Title Why women aren't attracted to men who "love" them
Author Woujo
Upvotes 459
Comments 97
Date 21 May 2016 06:29 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Original Link
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Red Pill terms found in post:
abundancefriend zonekinothe red pill

[–]Modredpillschool[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (6 children) | Copy

[–]_the_shape_156 points157 points  (26 children) | Copy

Guy: "Hey, what's going on?"

Girl: "Hey there."

Guy: "I'm not going to beat around the bush - I have a job I'd like to offer you. The job itself is pretty simple, but it demands a lot. All you need to do really is reply back to any text messages you receive from this one guy, but convincingly - you have to truly make it appear like you mean it. If he calls, the same rules apply. Listen to him talk, maybe ask a few questions of your own, laugh, cry with him if you have to, that sort of thing.

Girl: "Do I have to meet him in person?"

Guy: "Glad you brought that up - yes, that's quite important. In fact - sorry, there's no easy way to put this - you need to fuck him too. Whenever he's in the mood, basically. You can't let him grow frustrated or angry that you aren't screwing him. Also, don't ever mention any other guys around him, as he's prone to fits of raging jealousy. He's the most attractive guy you've ever met and no other man even remotely compares. Anything he asks, you must do - his emotional well-being literally comes down to how strong your work ethic is. You'll be provided with a phone as the job is round the clock, every day of the week. It doesn't pay very well and there aren't any actual 'benefits', but it's a great, ummm, 'learning experience'. Interested?"

tl;dr - a man in "love" is the worst job (read: set of responsibilities) a woman can ever accept

[–]eh_fuck_it198044 points45 points  (1 child) | Copy

Holy shit. I just gained a whole new perspective on my younger self in regards to dating. Thought I was a "good guy." Eye opening.

[–]Askada8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Majority of us once were. That's why we truly understand and respect what is being discussed on this sub. We see everything through our past experiences, making it 10 times more valuable.

[–][deleted] 27 points28 points  (5 children) | Copy

Yeah, doesn't seem appealing looking at it from a woman's perspective.

[–]skoobled22 points23 points  (4 children) | Copy

I don't think it does from a man's point of view either. On paper, having someone heads over heels in love with you is supposed to be great. The reality is it's a massive burden.

[–]1PantsonFire123413 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy

The thing that puts women off is the idea of expectations.

Remember the best memories you had in life? Allot of them were spontaneous and unexpected I bet. Things just fell into place and everyone enjoyed themselves, when you try recreating that night things never quite live up to it. The simplest things can become great memories when they came unexpected and allowed you to be surprised.

Relationships and romance are kind of like that. Expectations breed stress and create a burden that prevents all parties to let go and relax. That's the moment where people can truly enjoy themselves.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

exactly. It's like having someone on drugs doing a tightrope walk over the abyss of despair blindfolded and you are the one responsible for telling them where to put their feet.

Fuck if I want that responsibility.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes, the women is supposed to be fawning over you not vice versa. Looks pathetic and I wouldn't want to be that guy.

[–]1PantsonFire123417 points18 points  (1 child) | Copy

Well put. Now imagine how horrible relationships and marriage sounds to the unplugged guy.

This is the deal: You give 100% of the commitment and she gives you 10% of the sex. Other responsibilities include: listening to her emotional drivel, watching her fatten up while telling her she's still beautiful, respond to her never ending need for validation, getting 'tested' constantly if you're still a man etc etc..

Also put the following dates into your agenda:

Valentines, Mothersday, Her Birthday, Your Birthday, Family get togethers, Christmas and the most boring New Years Eve you will ever experience.

Men put up with all of this and it's so ingrained into our culture that we think this is normal. While simultaneously giving credence to the imaginary emotional 'burden' women feel with a guy.

That's really the worst. When a girl loves you and everyone around you tries to encourage you to chain yourself up for her. If you don't answer her feelings your the bad guy and the shaming and accusations begin. If you answer her feelings your basically in hell.

You're now allowed to imagine a man throwing his hands up in the air in total surrender.

[–]SinisterSwindler2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is so accurate, I don't miss any of these from my previous LTR.

 and the most boring New Years Eve you will ever experience.        

Mate, most boring new years ever, had me in tears. Lost frame and decided to to my girls parents house for new years instead of a rave. They sat in a living room drinking and watching the fireworks. :/.

[–]2awalt_cupcake10 points11 points  (10 children) | Copy

Do one for alphas from a woman's perspective or "job" perspective. What type of job would we expect to give her as an alpha? This is fantastic and eye opening.

[–]_the_shape_30 points31 points  (7 children) | Copy

Guy: "Hey you"

Girl: "Hey! How's it going?"

Guy: "Great, great, thank you. Listen, I don't have a whole lot of time here, but just a quick glance at you gives me the impression that you may be interested in what I have to offer, so I'm going to make this fast."

Girl: "Ok..."

Guy: "Perfect. Tell me first: you ever heard of those assistant roles where a girl gets paid fantastically to do pretty much nothing?"

Girl: "Yeah, and I heard they're all schemes too!"

Guy: "Not this one!"

Girl: "Yeah right..."

Guy: "Let me detail a bit what the job entails, and if you don't like what you hear and what you see, you can return to your world of paper-mountains and fountains of stress."

Girl: "Oh, alright.."

Guy: "Ok. This job is simple - extremely simple. Sales is what bring in the dollars in this business of ours here, but don't you worry for a second as you'll be doing none of that. You see that towering Greek God of perfection chatting up that giggling girl in the corner?"

Girl: (distracted by his stunningly good looks, her ears fail to listen to what is asked of her but her eyes beat his question by a few seconds)

Guy: "You there?"

Girl: "Huh? Oh! Ugh, yes yes, I ummm, yeah, I ugh... I agree. I mean, wait, I'm so sorry. What was the question again? Sorry"

Guy: "Hah! That's alright. Very common reaction. Hell, if I were a woman I'd probably lose all focus too with a guy like that around, but I digress. That right there is Chad, but we call him 'C.T.' around here. He's the one who closes all the deals in our little firm. We still wonder if he's human or not - that's how easy he makes his job look."

Girl: "But what about my job?"

Guy: "I'm getting there. You see, C.T. likes things done his way, and we try our best to go out of our way to get him whatever he wants, whenever he wants. He brings home the bacon for all of us, and in return we make his life better in any way possible. As for you, all you have to do is be by his side unless he dismisses you to go do something else. Simply strive to look your best at all times and stay out of his way, broadly speaking. Give him room - always! Watch him work his magic on one client after another while keeping a smile on your face and you'll do just fine. Many times, all you'll be doing is driving around with C.T. from one spot to another in his Maserati. He'll take you out to eat at great restaurants from time to time, you'll get to occasionally get hammered on the job if that's you sort of thing - but don't overdo it! - in fact, it'll all be so easy and be so much fun that you won't believe someone is actually paying you (and handsomely) to do this.

I've been working for C.T. for many years now, and all the assistants who've worked for him have told me the same thing: 'I feel alive when I'm with C.T. I feel like I was made for this!' It's true - the guy has a way with people, especially women. Very impressive. You remember that old Aretha Franklin song: 'You Make Me Feel Like A Natural Woman?' Well, every single girl who's worked for him has reported back some permutation of the title of that song. Every. Single. One.

If there's any downside to the job though, it's that the nature of it is incredibly unpredictable."

Girl: "How so?"

Guy: "Well, for as smooth and charming as C.T. is known to be, he's also got quite a reputation for being elusive and mysterious. Sometimes he'll grow silent and refrain from talking to you for most of the day. It's nothing personal - just the way he is. There may be days where you guys are getting along just great, and just like that, he'll ask that you stay home for the next few days, maybe the next week or two. He might even pick up another assistant the very next day."

Girl: "He'll replace me without notice?"

Guy: "It's possible, yes, but odds are you'll be sticking around for awhile, especially with eyes like those and an ass like that"

Girl: Hey!"

Guy: "True story!"

Girl: "Am I going to be his only assistant?"

Guy: "Ah, yes, excellent question. If anyone personifies the expression 'variety is the spice of life', it's that man, so be prepared to see another face or two from time to time. Many of the girls have been consumed by their own jealousy and consequently sent home to 'cool off', but they always express a desire to come back once they get a grip on themselves. I mean, you should witness some of these girls outside of the job when they're away from C.T. - it's all they talk about! How he did this, how he did that! How he took them to this place, how much they miss him, how this place and the other remind them of him, how many new things they've learned about and experienced while with him, how he won a karate tournament with a dislocated shoulder, how his political views changed over the course of his 20s and into his 30s, etc. etc.. Tell me, who else obsesses about their job like that!? No one!

So now that I've told you about your role, I only have one question left...

Girl: "Omg. omg. omg."

Guy: "How soon can you begin?"

Girl: "TODAY!! RIGHT NOW!!! NOW!!! NOW!!!"

[–]1PantsonFire12344 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

The job the Alpha gives girls is the one where they can make up their own hours and workload. She gets to pick the things she wants to do. It's the easiest job in the world, that's why.

[–]lMETHANBRADBERRY16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy

That's one of the cringiest things I've ever read.

[–]2awalt_cupcake1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

thats really long. The other one was easily remembered.

Still great though. Should be included in the sidebar imo.

[–]hbPUA-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

Great story. C T looks like a fun guy.

[–]redpillbrazil-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

Amazing my friend, this is gold right there!

[–][deleted] 6 points6 points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–]newgrounds6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Holy shit dude. This right here describes me in a long term relationship. I am laughing really hard but wow. What a loser.

[–]Zeronn0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

holy shit i suck!! thank you so much for this

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is why a woman cannot love us the way men want to be loved. We want too fucking much, it's ridiculous

[–]Renaissancepirate26 points27 points  (2 children) | Copy

If you read 48 Laws of Power, what OP describes seems to be a transgression of two laws.

Law 3 - Conceal Your Intentions

By showing needy love, A women realizes what you want. As we all know, women want a challenge when it comes to love, and the man who freely gives it on the first meeting, is no challenge.

16 - Use Absence to Increase Respect and Honor

To make matter worse, that same guy is blowing up her phone and trying to meet with her all of the time. As they say, familiarity breeds contempt.

What OP is telling you to do is just observe these laws:

If you want to get a girl to like you, talk to her, be nice to her, joke with her, etc… But just don’t display the needy love emotions. Treat the girl like any other dude you know. Don’t say anything that implies that you “need” anything from her, don’t stare at her too long, don’t follow her around, don’t demand her attention, don’t do things for her, etc… If you’re out with her, don’t make her feel “responsible” for you – make her feel like you could totally walk away and do your own thing and it wouldn’t bother you. In fact, you should err on the side of slightly being a “dick” because a lot of really hot girls will interpret normal behavior as needy love

This is observing both of the above laws.

[–]Strike48 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Good observance my man. Good reminder for me as well as I constantly have to keep reminding myself to remain absent. I'm talking to a few girls currently, but I have my eye out for this one specific one that I'm just being a retard for. Called her today "Hey, I want to see you, come over tomorrow." She then gives me some excuse "I think my mom wanted to do something tomorrow".

I'm really into this girl and I need to constantly remind myself to leave it alone, but it's fucking hard to just soft next her right now. I lack discipline in emotion management. Something to work on and grow on I suppose, but damn, I hate the fucking feeling.

[–]Renaissancepirate-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Law 3: Conceal your Intentions:

Hang out with some friends, (espically girls) and post it on Facebook, where she'll see it. Or just do some cool things with some friends.

Don't know if you were asking for advice, but try not to focus one girl too much or you'll wind up breaking Law 3.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy

Girls don't like boys that needy loves them because they already won. These boys are their property.

Aloof guys - there is still fight. Who would made a needy sucker out of him. Girls even compete with each other on the bases who would bend this motherfucker.

If you aloof guy and in relationships all your girlfriend friends would envy her. Because she got so much THRILL and so much ACTION.

They not so lucky. They settle up for a needy beta male. And she is... Oh, she is so fucking AWESOME! He is like a rock.

Sometimes they even give up, make a clique and try to BEND THIS MOTHERFUCKER together. So he would stop being so FREE and you know HUMAN. But most of them time they envy each other and repeat the phrase inside their mind: SHE IS STUPID CUNT. I WOULD BEND AND FUCKING RUINED THIS ALOOF MOTHERFUCKER.

[–]Il128 46 points46 points [recovered] | Copy

The vast majority of women these days are incapable of loving a man.

It's not your fault. Some stupid fucking feminists told her to go ahead and fuck every guy who made he snatch wet. After a dozen or do dicks she just shuts down and can no longer pair bond.

Sure, she'll lie to get resources and security but she can't love.

It's not your fault.

[–]1PantsonFire12342 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy

Most women I've met have been open about the guys she dated and LTR'd. Sometimes I wonder if that's all they've had. Or if their hiding an entire closet full of completely different guys- that only fucked her.

I know women love to compartmentalize. But if this is the case then logically there's no happiness to be found.

[–]Il1280 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

Actually you can be happy without a woman being a part of that happiness. That's really the key.

I've got two plates that cook, clean and go shopping for me (one 49 and one 46) and I still pull a couple twenty two year old pump and dumps a month (Tinder is awesome!).

It's not excluding women from your life, it's just keeping them where they belong in your life.

[–]1PantsonFire12340 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

Absolutely, same here. The idea is to avoid relationships until I really have to. Though when I reflect on the girls I dated back in the day. Sometimes I wonder if they possibly hid this from me.

Some guy posted this a while back. Where he explained that girls will try to dial the sex down in order to LTR a guy. Then when the same girl fucked some Chad she behaved completely different.

You can be alpha all you want, if she wants to lock you down she doesn't want to appear a slut.

[–]Il1282 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

I had a third plate that was married. I had to cut her loose because she was pushing me for commitment. It's pretty sad when a woman is cheating on some poor bastard and pushing her (in her eyes) alpha fuck monster to commit to her.

There were times when she'd be at my place, cooking, cleaning, doing my laundry (wearing lingerie the entire time) and doing sex play with me, while her husband was at home watching the kids and doing the cooking, cleaning and laundry.

This person actually thought I would commit to her if she threatened to never see me again.

I said, "Get out. Never bother me again."

[–]1PantsonFire12340 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

At the least she tried to branch swing. It would have been more fucked up if she simply separated her BB and AF and kept both of you on board.

[–]Il1283 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

I had no problem with what she did outside of the "relationship" she had with me. It was only when she got that hamster spinning out of control and she thought her value was so high that I had to commit that she had to be cut loose.

Her total inability to see the reality of what she was doing at the time coupled with her starting to incessantly bitch about "us" was just to much.

If she had half a brain she'd have realized a couple years ago that there was no way I would ever commit to her, no sane man would. We were fuck buddies. I let her spend time with what she saw as a high value man and I got sex and household chores. A very good deal for both of us. But she had to fuck it up.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

If she had half a brain she'd have realized a couple years ago that there was no way I would ever commit to her,

Seriously, how can you commit to someone who cheated on someone to be with you. Clearly showing how much respect she has for "commitment".

[–]user_7at5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is why we shouldn't marry. This is also why we need to abolish needy love from our emotions. While impossible it is still possible to actively distinguish and suppress these emotions. If anyone is getting hurt here it shouldn't be you.

[–]PlansAndPlates 2 points2 points [recovered] | Copy

There's studies that show this right? I remember reading they begin with X% pair bonding power and X reduces with every subsequent mate, i.e. she feels the strongest for the first partner and it becomes less 'feels' for every subsequent partner.

I can't find the source if anyone knows it.

[–]slay_it_forward0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I've seen the study. It's true.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This short comment pretty much sums up our current societal situation right to a fucking T.

[–]getRedPill-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's not your fault. Some stupid fucking feminists...

Feminists. + Welfare.Taking money from you and giving to her irresponsibly not only makes us all some kind of beta cucks but it what's really makes her incapable of bonding and respect.

[–]Theophagist10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy

Wow I am under the influence of a bunch of extremely strong chemicals in my brain

It's one of the things I figured out on my own the last time I had one-itis, long before my redpill days. It saved me a lot of trouble and most likely dignity.

[–]AngeloCiao1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Snap! saved me, not only dignity or self respect which totally goes out the window with one-itis, for this is the moment in our lives when men become irrational, for over the last few years alone, I have said to myself on countless occations, that if it wasnt for TRP awareness, and the understanding of concious competence or concious incompetence it gives you, boy I would have fucked up ALOT more and not capatalised in the way I did.

[–]greatslyfer10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

Man fuck romantic comedies and Disney movies, really ruin it for guys out there lol

[–]NeoreactionSafe14 points15 points  (8 children) | Copy


Men love women, women love children, children love puppies


As long as your "orientation" is based in "masculine polarity" then to love is to reward and punish as neccessary for the greater good of the relationship.

Love can be from "above" as a man or "below" as a puppy, child, woman or beta male.

This is very similiar to:

Men desire Freedom, Women desire Access a woman's logic her desire for Access "feels like" Freedom in her mind.

A woman views the word Freedom as meaning "free movement" into other spaces.

For a man Freedom means separation... the ability to build a wall to keep others out.

So meanings can be opposites.


[–]DysfunctionalBrother3 points4 points  (7 children) | Copy

Women love children, but if your a son of a single mother and behave in a way that reminds her of your father she will shame, emasculate you and make you hate yourself.

[–]lMETHANBRADBERRY6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy

Sounds like some deep seeded problems bought you here...

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Some deep seeded problems brought all of us here.

The whole point of this sub is to discuss those problems.

[–]hb8only 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

dont make a fun from him tought

[–]NeoreactionSafe0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Women ideally would love children, but for women this is extremely difficult without some form of male guidance to instruct them on what love is supposed to be like. These days most low quality single mom's will attempt to use needy love with their children.

That's backwards.

The type of love where the parent seeks things emotionally from their children is not a good example of being a parent.

Women prefer to love "above" themselves... this is how they are designed... but when there is no man in her life for that kind of love she uses her children as a source for "narcissistic supply". other words the love she should be getting by looking "above" to an actual masculine male figure (someone who she submits to) gets redirected (perverted) as it's sent downward towards her children.

That is not love that's mental abuse... and it's very common these days.


[–]DysfunctionalBrother1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Exactly. You put it far better than i ever could and is my experience.

[–]ThePantsThief6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Man, posts like this always come just in the nic of time it seems like. This girl I'm talking to just started testing me I think. Not sure I passed tonight… but I won't fail again.

Thanks OP. And everyone.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Very good, the sort of post I come here for. Thoughtful, analytic, yet practical. We are all subject to that chemical maelstrom at the most unexpected times, and it can make us weak and stupid, so understanding it is very useful, both to have better control over ourselves, and to understand how it gives us power over others (ie women). I remember my deep need for sex and affection when I was young, exacerbated by my school experiences leading me to cut myself off from people, which took years to overcome (but I did overcome it extremely well). During that period I fell deeply in lust with a lass doing the research at the same university, and my neediness turned her off like nobody's business. I cringe thinking of myself back then, not surprised she ran a mile.

Later, I saw it from the other side a few times. One girl, who was clearly smitten by me, I just avoided like the plague. Another I had an affair with for nearly two years, and it was great. It showed me what a woman in love was prepared to do (pretty much anything I asked her to), yet also it worked on me to keep me aloof. Her very need of me kept me feeling there was an emotional wall between us.

[–]RP_Vergil3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Another way to summarize this. Man Like, Woman Love. If a Man Love a Woman, the Woman would only Lile the Man.

[–]afkb39sdfb3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

tl:dr They come off as needy and it turns women off

[–]ubiety 7 points7 points [recovered] | Copy

Basically, treat the girl like a best friend, except you're physically attractive to her. The loving indifference part allows you to express your interest while not becoming overly attached to her.

A woman is not attracted to assholes per se, they're attracted to their abundance mentality and indifference to her, especially if he trickles interest then moves on to another girl. Girls work for these guys attention in part because they look like they have options and a girl wants to selfishly make herself the only option.

This doesn't excuse you from approaching girls. You still need to approach girls and express interest. The correct way to show a girl you're attracted without being desperate is written in the OP, basically ask her on a date in a clear direct manner. Don't explain yourself, keep it short. The mystery is part of the chase and women like this.

Good write up OP.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Girls work for these guys attention in part because they look like they have options and a girl wants to selfishly make herself the only option.

And once they are the only option, when they have you in a relationship. They will leave you as the magic is gone, and they find someone knew, where the magic is new again.

[–]askmrcia1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

I have another theory. I always believed girls go for assholes because it causes drama, which gives her more attention. Tell me, From a girl's point of view, which sounds better?

Billy who is a nice cool dude that never causes any problems in the relationship, never really have to argue, always a good guy, but not a push over.

Or Chad on the other hand, who cheats on her, verbally abuses her and all kinds of other shit?

Which one gives the girl more attention? Chad of course. Everyone in that girl's social circle is talking about the drama between her and Chad. Everyone is telling her she needs to break up and asking why you with him. She won't be getting this attention from Billy. However, her shitty relationship with Chad can leak out to Facebook and Twitter and now everyone is talking about how this girl has a bad relationship and how she can do better.

So now based on that, you can see the shitty relationship gives her more attention, which is what women love. She's always the victim and Billy never does anything wrong so she can't blame him for anything. This is why I think girls go for assholes. They live their own reality TV show

[–]BenjiDread1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

She's always the victim and Billy never does anything wrong so she can't blame him for anything.

I've heard a woman complain because she never has a good reason to be mad at her boyfriend. Every time she thinks she's caught him doing something wrong, he has a completely reasonable and innocent explanation. He's just a good guy.

What kind of sick fuck WANTS their SO to do something wrong just so they can be righteously mad at them? It's as if they're already mad (for no reason), and get frustrated because they can't hamster a plausible reason for being mad.

[–]askmrcia0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Your question can be answered easily. The people (girls) that wants their significant other to do something wrong so they can have something to be mad at are the girls that are desperate for attention. When that girl is with her girlfriends, she most likely has nothing to talk about.

"Billy is a cool guy, he took me out to this concert and then we went to the super bowl. " That conversation can last only twelve mins.

Now let's go with this. "CHAD is an asshole. That jerk cheated on me with Melissa from taco bell. Ugh I'm so mad. I do everything for him. Why would be cheat on me. All guys are assholes." Girls can literally talk about a scenario like this for days. She loves everyone telling her to move on. She loves it when people are calling her a dumbass for being with this loser. It's good attention for her.

I've been in those situations many times. I don't do shit wrong, but they will find something the smallest thing to get mad at you for. And they want you or us guys to verbally attack them, physically attack them, cheat or something. If you do what I do and ignore them they will leave. If you do with what I've seen most assholes do, which is cuss them out, argue for hours, cheat, beat them or something like that, she will come crawling back.

Me personally I hate drama and it's a huge headache. I know some guys love that shit. They love to argue, fight and get caught cheating. But yea hopefully this answers your question. And trust me, I hate that girls are like this.

Let me give you one good quick story. I was dating this girl a while back. We were in the back seat of her car. I offered her a drink. As I was pouring the drink she moved her cup out of the way because she said it was too much alcohol. So some alcohol got on her legs and I tried moving my hand to stop the drink from spilling. When I did that, I accidentally hit (more like a very soft tap) her head. No blood, no bruise nothing.

The next day she tells everyone that I tried to get her drunk so I can rape her and beat her. Lol.

She did that because we were dating for like three weeks. I never gave her anything to argue about. So she was waiting for something stupid to get on me about. Did I post shit on Facebook bashing her or anything? Nope. She just ignored my next text message and dated some asshole who knocked her up and left her. And I got way more similar stories like this.

But yea, they are screwed up in the head.

[–]BenjiDread1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question. I think you're spot on. My ex was like that too. She would get upset over nothing just to make sure her hamster got exercise.

I'm like you. All I want is peace and harmony. She thrives on conflict, even though she says she "Hates drama". Turns out she's on the BPD spectrum.

I didn't think about the friend factor. It's amazing how much their actions within the relationship are dictated by validation from their peers. The same "bitches" they complain about constantly.

Trying to comprehend women's behavior breaks my mind. I am so glad I found TRP.

[–]1favours_of_the_moon2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

It's a classic case of "identification with the aggressor" on the level of mass psychology.

These people are not sane, cannot have normal relationships.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

When I was in high school, I had feelings for this one girl. I thought I was in "love", I thought love was this permanent thing. I thought love was what tv, people, friends told me it was. I romanticised love, I thought love must be this permanent thing, like when you love your family, friends, it is supposed to be permanent, you cannot love your bother, sister, father, mother, one day and hate them forever the next day. When family members do something wrong, even if it is evil in nature. You still love them, this love is permanent. No matter what society thinks or what they did, they are your blood, they are your family, you "love" them, FOREVER! I thought this applied to women as well as in how you love a women, when later the relationship ended, i could not accept that i fell out of "love", I thought it was supposed to be permanent? I thought to myself, did I even love her? I asked myself, Do I even "love" my family? What is love anyways? For a long time, I would hold onto feelings for a crush i had or a gf I had because, I thought love is supposed to be permanent! It had a huge effect on me, I thought that I was flawed or that I couldn't love because, eventually the "love" i had for the women i liked, would go away, it fucked me up. I thought I could never love, or i didn't know what love really was.

It turns out that you can fall out of "love" with family as well. Turns out, love is not real.

We're killing strangers, we're killing strangers

We're killing strangers, so we don't kill the ones that we love

-Marilyn Manson

[–]mack_and_the_boys2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

'Second—There are several kinds of love. One is a selfish, mean, grasping, egotistical thing which uses love for self-importance. This is the ugly and crippling kind. The other is an outpouring of everything good in you—of kindness and consideration and respect—not only the social respect of manners but the greater respect which is recognition of another person as unique and valuable. The first kind can make you sick and small and weak but the second can release in you strength, and courage and goodness and even wisdom you didn’t know you had'

John Steinbeck's letter to his son - 1958

[–]matacks9702 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

In any kind of relationship the love should only be flowing from the woman to the man. There may be times when it's OK to show a little love back but if any guy does this too much, the women may mistake you for one of her own kind and be repulsed.

[–]AIEmpire2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

So this is kinda related to my situation at the minute. I just broke up with my girlfriend of three months the day after I told her I love her. I went over to hers and she's giving me the cold shoulder (sitting on opposite couch to me, etc). So I said 'I think we need a talk don't you? I'm guessing from your behavior that you don't want to be together anymore'. Apparently she still wants to be friends, but that aint gonna happen, what's done can't be undone and I've got no interest in being her friend.

Probably my own fault for ignoring the red flags, I always knew deep down I was putting more into the relationship than she was. It's also worth mentioning that she has other shit going on in her life as well (she's on anti-depressants and going to counselling), but I was willing to support her because I did actually love her.

Did I fuck up by telling her I loved her? Pretty sad state of affairs if you can't say this to your girlfriend.

Oh well. Think I dodged a bullet anyway tbh...

[–]teeelo2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Maybe she only accepts the love she thinks she deserves?

None if any.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

She's a mess and will destroy you. Women like this are garbage, no offense.

[–]askmrcia0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yea its to the point where you can't tell the girl you like her anymore because that can come across as clingy.

[–]Strike482 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Fantastic fucking write up. Every article that I see posted by you is a must read from me going forward. I learn new shit and it's explained well. I'm also able to process what you write very effectively without complication so thank you for the quality.

[–]iseeyou13124 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Women don't want your love, they want your validation. How much, or how little you love them is irrelevant.

[–]Luckyluke231 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

As we all know, love can literally drive a person crazy and cause one to become violent, stalk somebody, fall into deep depression, etc… “Love” has ruined countless people’s lives. On a subconscious level everybody knows that a person in the grip of needy love is basically insane.

you have no idea how bad this is, I know a guy from high school ( circle of friends) who met a girl and he got SO attached to her, that he is on suicide watch, has a Violence restraining order against him and he had to move cities because of it.

want to know the kicker? he blames her for everything. He now proceeds to post vids on youtube and cry in them.

love a girl “logically”

by logically do you meam, I love this women for XYZ reasons. If one of the reasons don't hold true, I won't love her no more.

where " needy love" you would love her DESPITE XYZ not being true?

[–]trptwerp1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I thought that this post was nothing new, but this deserves to become an addition to the sidebar.

[–]1PantsonFire12341 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I've experienced some truths about what you wrote. When a woman displays love towards me I feel terrified. It's the first thing I try to avoid. When they display arousal, attraction and respect- these attract me. The problem arises when they spill over into love. This tends to happen allot and it sends me running.

Now I've never been hugged as a child and no relationship or fling lasted for more than a couple of weeks. This makes me very inexperienced when it comes to dealing with love, so I opt to avoid it.

Here comes the joke: the more you try to avoid it the more it comes after you. It's terrifying me, every interaction with a girl spirals down to this horrible conclusion. I can see it in their eyes and their body language.

When they first interact with me and I respond differently then most guys would. Their eyes light up and their smile widens, their body relaxed and they start to make kino if their slightly drunk. These types are the worst, their already making wedding plans within twenty minutes of conversation. Couple years ago things were so messed up that I'd get nauseous and sometimes ended up throwing up. I learned stop caring about rejecting and hurting them. But this only made things worse.

Nowadays I feel more comfortable talking to aloof girls even though I know they have zero interest towards me. There is no expectation there, just calm and relaxing peace.

[–]bisjac1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Well if it was to easy, then one must wonder if thats really as good as they could get.

[–]BiggestOfBosses1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

fucking hell, could have used this advice when I was younger. better late than never, huh?

[–]Askada0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Don’t girls want to be loved? Well… not exactly. (...) What women really want is a guy THEY CAN LOVE. (...) They want a guy who is attentive, cares about them, isn’t needy, isn’t selfish, and isn’t an asshole.

It's basically tl;dr version. And it fucking hits the nail on the head.

That is some high quality posting. I applaud.

[–]Bluetinfoilhat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Men don't like needy girls either. It is a media trope of the psycho girl who is needy and tries to spend all her time with her boyfriend when the boyfriend just wants to hang out with his buddies. It is even creepy when this is done before one becomes boyfriend and girlfriend. Syncophants are annoying. You can be kind without being needy.

[–]Polaris3820 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Pretty much nailed it, and its the approach Ive had with my current GF (who actually is a pretty high quality woman) who keeps chasing, pursuing, coming after me, etc.

Get them invested in you, and then put yourself first most of the time.

You need to value your freedom, independence, individuality, etc.

[–]murraay_0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

How can I practice Christian love without seeming needy?

[–]DysfunctionalBrother2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

What do you mean by christian love?

[–]murraay_0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

It's a platonic, universal love reserved for everyone. For me, it means acting morally, not using people, and treating others as I'd want to be treated.

In dating it translates to not using and throwing people away, not taking advantage, and trying to make the person better. Note that this is an ideal conduct and it's hard to do irl.

[–]DysfunctionalBrother2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'm going to assume by everyone you mean people in your life.

Being a fair person is fine, but acting moral isn't healthy because you are not perfect and people who tend to have it put in their heads they must be moral judge themselves harshly for having human feelings, thoughts and needs that are labelled as selfish then they judge other people harshly for being selfish. At the end of the day human beings are selfish and need to be selfish sometimes to survive and protect others.

We all use people to some extent, for example church goers who are serious about christianity will want to become friends with the minister to learn more about the faith through what he knows and the minister wants people to listen to him and follow his advice. In both cases one is gaining from the other and is using the other. In most cases the two wont talk as much eventually because person A is satisfied with the information they got from person B and person B gets pleasure from sharing what he knows and seeks out more opportunities to do so.

The problem with treating others as you'd want to be treated is they may not want to be treated as you want to be treated. There are also some who may take advantage of your kindness because they view you as weak and it makes them feel they have power over you and throw you under the bus when you least expect it.

It took me a long time to realise this, but the best thing you can do for the world is to love yourself completely because when you love yourself you are more happy and content, you don't need everyone to like you, you don't take yourself so seriously and you can see the bigger picture. This will help you love people in a more healthy way because you can't love others without being dependent or needy if you don't love yourself first and if you don't love yourself first why would anyone else?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

charity is giving from abunance, not needing something from someone else

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Good post. I want to extend on one thing... the whole "feeling bad to see a guy get hit by a car" is something related to mirror neurons. Our neurons trigger whenever we see someone performing a task. It's thought to have evolved as part of a learning process. So, if you see someone pick up a stone and knock another stone with it to make an edge, your neurons are firing in similar ways to the guy manipulating the stone. Or if it's a golf swing, your basis for being able to do it at all, to imitate it is based on these mirror neurons. You watch and basically record the basic version of the program, which you can play back. It sounds obvious because we just do it automatically but other animals are not so good at it.

When someone eats something very bitter they make the disgusting grimace. Eyes squint, mouth gets pulled down. When you see that face you experience the emotion they are experiencing because your brain is triggered in the reverse way. Their brain experiences disgust -> their face becomes a grimace -> information goes to your eyes -> into your brain -> you involuntarily share their disgust.

By observing what they're seeing or doing you learn something about your environment. Your pal Sam over there too a bite of something very bitter (alkaline chemicals are bitter and often poisonous) and he makes that face, you now know that this plant is bitter -> disgusting -> your brain records the emotion and associates it with the plant he's eating, and thus you get to skip over getting poisoned without having to experience it first hand.

The surge of joy you get when your team hits a walkoff grand slam to win the game by 1 with two outs is partially the victory feeling that the hitter has. Your favorite hockey star throws his hands up after a goal and you throw your hands up in sympathy.

All of this is brain wiring, and also tightens a social group. One of your guys gets a beating from an outsider, you first feel his pain and suffering and then you get triggered into fight or flight just like he is.

Body language and being in synch with someone else's body language probably creates that feeling of sympatico because what you're observing is feeding back into your own brain, mirror neurons and your normal neurons all setting the same pattern.

Anyway, I digress, but there is some science (some of this stuff is still theory) in this.

[–]aanarchist0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

show her you love her by choking her and beating the shit out of her.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

you know, if she likes that kind of thing

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Are these troll accounts in a attempt to make TRP look bad? Seen a few of these lately.

[–]ElementArrow3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Nah I'm pretty sure he's not being serious.

[–]aanarchist0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Her reward for not wanting to be loved is to be used and abused.

[–]Il128-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Here is how your modern woman is and how she sees love.

[–]2awalt_cupcake-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

if you see a guy get hit by a car, you feel “bad” for him because you FEEL as if you yourself got hit by a car,. You don’t logically think to yourself “oh that must suck to get hit by a car.”.

Yes I do. I understand it must be excruciating pain but it is not my pain to experience. I sympathize but I do not FEEL as if I got hit by a car. The fuck.

[–]Endorsed ContributorWoujo[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I dont think you understand the point i was making

[–]2awalt_cupcake0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

My comment was not about your point. I was addressing this particular passage.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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