659,329 posts

Wife wants me to take her back and I'm torn.

by LazerSpin | May 06, 2020 | askMRP

21 upvotes

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In 2019, after six years together with my wife (no kids), I filed for divorce. At the time she was 32 and I was 34. I have been living by myself ever since then while she stayed in the house I owned prior to marriage. I initiated divorce because, despite my best mostly Blue Pill efforts, she never stopped nagging and starting fights with me over our time together. The last argument she started had me especially scared because it sounded like she started yelling how I was hurting her (of course, I wasn't event touching her), I got scared she or a neighbor would call the cops, and I would get Duluth Modele'd.

The divorce process has not been combative, but slow. I'm having to push both of us through the process instead of working with another person. Over the past few months with Corona and economic uncertainty (in our six years together she has never held a full time job) she's made a blitz to get me to take her back. Last time I saw her she gave a power point presentation on why I should do this. Her arguments were that divorce could still continue, she knew the kind of sex I liked, she promised no more fights and that she'd clean and cook. Essentially it boils down to her realizing her mistakes over the time we were separated and having become a better person in the time we were separated.

Honestly I'm also a realist. I tried dating after I filed and it went OK. I'm well situated financially, educated, but fat and BP. The latter things I can fix, but I don't know if I'm up to the effort that would take (I'm kind of a pussy). I do want kids and a family some day so MGTOW isn't really for me. I have no idea and little confidence that I'd be able to achieve this dream if I turned her down now.

I can type an entire book explaining the nuances of our relationship, my past dating history (I'm a commitment-phobe), her absentee father (her mom divorced when she was young and her younger sister is also a divorcee), but I know no one's got time to read my life story. In short, my situation is really painful, bros, and I don't have anyone to turn to (my parents mean well, but they are too old to give me advice on this). It hurts a lot.

I guess this boils down to gambling on me being able to rise up and doing better in the future or picking the "devil I know" and hoping that the only RP thing I ever did in our relationship (serving her papers) and whatever skills I pick up along the way will be enough to create a long-lasting marriage. I don't know what to do. I wish I just kept being beta so she'd dump me instead of me dumping her. That would have made things so much easier.


Post Information
Title Wife wants me to take her back and I'm torn.
Author LazerSpin
Upvotes 21
Comments 171
Date 06 May 2020 01:08 AM UTC (2 months ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/660114
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/geacf0/wife_wants_me_to_take_her_back_and_im_torn/
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[–]Redrover85790 points91 points  (20 children) | Copy

You are currently being lifted out of the ocean by the rescue helicopter. You are hanging on to the ladder, looking back down at the ocean and wondering if you should jump back in.

[–]nordicpolarbear10 points11 points  (5 children) | Copy

Exactly. You don’t have kids why the fuck would you stay. Cut your losses become your peak and THEN find a woman. You are too focused on women. Focus on yourself become your own mountain you fucking faggot. Your blue pill post half makes me sick half pisses me off. What the fuck man?

[–]Redrover8576 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy

Yes. I have some friends that have remarried or have LTR with women that aren’t the mother of their kids. I’ll never understand why they give two shits what she thinks about anything. If you have a family with the woman I completely understand wanting to lead and keep that moving in a good direction. But if you aren’t the mother of my children you can fuck off.

[–]nordicpolarbear4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yep pretty much. What’s even the point of marriage but to have children and raise them proper? There isn’t. Without children it’s pointless to me. I’m more scared of dying knowing that I haven’t lived my life to my fullest than dying alone. This guy is living in fear. That’s not living it is merely surviving. Go it alone for a while and make yourself stronger that’s my advice

[–]RPAnon1230 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I’m more scared of dying knowing that I haven’t lived my life to my fullest than dying alone.

That whole dying alone thing is such a fucking lie. Women outlive men by 6 years these days. Women are the social creatures that can't live without the attention of a man. Healthy men have no problem living alone. So who do you think someone is going to be lonely and "die alone" ?

[–]LazerSpin[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

That's a good point.

I'll have to make myself better to find a better woman to have kids with. If I can't improve myself then there's no point having kids with my current wife or anyone; it'll just turn into a shit-show.

[–]betatest-in-progress4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Quit beating this horse. Its dead.

Do the work or GTFO.

[–]LazerSpin[S] -1 points0 points  (13 children) | Copy

That's a beautiful analogy. I tell myself that never during the time we were separated and no contact did I miss her or the sex. Sure, sex is nice when I don't have to think how much work it requires, same for companionship. Some of the dating I did went well, but the women (understandably) did not want to proceed too much further after learning I was in the middle of a divorce.

The only reason I'm thinking about jumping back in is because I have little confidence that I'll be able to do better in the little time (~5 years till I turn 40 and then I can forget about ever having kids?) I have left.

[–]_-resonance-_19 points20 points  (3 children) | Copy

Improve your confidence. Also, my dad was 45 when I was born and he was my baseball coach, bowling buddy, etc. Stop making excuses for being weak. You shouldn’t want to be with her if she wants to be with a lower version of yourself than you are capable of. Choose to stay with her because she is your best option, not your only option. Choose her because she makes you want to be better. If she doesn’t make you feel that way, you especially should not want to be with her.

[–]FoxShitNasty8312 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

Choose to stay with her because she is your best option, not your only option. Choose her because she makes you want to be better. If she doesn’t make you feel that way, you especially should not want to be with her.

This

[–]LazerSpin[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I'm glad to hear you had a good connection with your dad.

Choose her because she makes you want to be better

She only ever felt like an extra set of problems and burdens I had to deal with or carry. Maybe she just never learned how to make her partner feel like "the man" or give them encouragement/energy?

Choose to stay with her because she is your best option, not your only option

You nailed it. Right now, if I want a decent human being (not a drug addict, carousel rider, etc) then she's my only choice. There are higher value women out there, but they are not going to be interested in me as I am right now.

[–]RPAnon1233 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

You nailed it. Right now, if I want a decent human being (not a drug addict, carousel rider, etc) then she's my only choice. There are higher value women out there, but they are not going to be interested in me as I am right now.

You are so fucking wrong it hurts. Your oneitis is killing your judgement.

"Not going to be interested in me as I am right now" ? NO KIDDING !

Why don't you get your act together, build some SMV and then make that decision. You are capable of growth, right ? There are some pretty awesome women out there if you are a good man.

Your wife has never held a full time job. What makes her so special that she can't be replaced ? Are you fucking kidding me ?

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando12 points13 points  (2 children) | Copy

I have little confidence that I'll be able to do better in the little time (~5 years till I turn 40 and then I can forget about ever having kids?) I have left.

This is fucking retarded thinking. Your ex-wife is nearly 40. Her time for having kids - without either her or the kid having some kind of medical issues, or even being able to conceive at all - is pretty much up. She's well past her sell by date. And she fucking knows it - why do you think she came crawling back to you with fucking spreadsheets?

Once you quit being a fat Beta slob with a scarcity mentality, you can have kids any time you want with someone much younger, much hotter and much more sexually available.

Why would you go rooting through the thrash for scraps or old, rotten and used flesh when there's a fucking world of tasty, fresh meat out there for the taking?

[–]LazerSpin[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

So in short: if I do the work then I'll be likely to find the same or better family situation. If I don't do the work then nothing will help. Either way, I'm not confident that I'll be able to both stay and work on myself in this relationship so I guess the answer is clear.

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If you do the work, you'll be able to do whatever the fuck you want, with whoever you want.

But it's a big 'if'.

Your mindset is fucked at the minute and it's not just a fleeting phase - you've spent your whole life working towards the point where you are now.

If you put in the work, just be aware that it's going to take you at least two years to rewire your brain and fix your fucked mental modes and at least two years to recomp you body into something half decent looking.

I'd bear that in mind when making your decision. The hard option is a long haul, the easy option is a phone call. Either way, it's you choice.

[–]SailorAground8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

The only reason I'm thinking about jumping back in is because I have little confidence that I'll be able to do better in the little time (~5 years till I turn 40 and then I can forget about ever having kids?) I have left.

Tons of men have kids after 40. Trade your wife in for a younger model. Men don't have the same time limitations on kids that women do. You're a king, act like it.

[–]turbospeedsc16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy

After my 1st divorce i felt the same at one point, i was 31 balding, beer gut, but with a great job, it was before finding the RP, naturally i started to lose weight, hit the gym, going out, having fun ended up with several plates in different cities (traveled a lot), while my exwife told me several times i was never gonna find someone better than her.

Ended up meeting my current wife, at the time a hot 23 yo special kids teacher, and while i have fucked up this relationship going back to my beta bitch ways, its entirely possible to find a much better partner, if that's what you want.

Once you lose weight and get a bit fit, a decent looking guy it's 40's with a decent income and body can easily find a hot 27-29 girl willing to have a family.

[–]nordicpolarbear6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

No no and no you’re thinking is fucked. Men hit their peak at 40 stop thinking like a woman. If you want her back tell her you’ll take her back after the divorce as a girlfriend and if she is a good girl for a year you’ll remarry her. Then after a year tell her to fuck off. She would do the same to you.

[–]LazerSpin[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

tell her you’ll take her back after the divorce as a girlfriend and if she is a good girl for a year you’ll remarry her

I wouldn't mind continuing to fuck her, even though I'm worried about getting child-trapped (male BC pills can't come fast enough). I have thought about about coming back so she can "show me" how much she has improved as a person during our time apart but continuing the divorce during this time. Then, when everything is finalized, asking her to move out. I have no idea whether this is a smart thing to do or not.

[–]Tyred_Biggums10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

Some of the dating I did went well, but the women (understandably) did not want to proceed too much further after learning I was in the middle of a divorce.

I had no issue with this. If it ever came up, I’d lay it out that I’m separated working to finalize a divorce and that was it. Next subject. Not one woman I’ve seen backed out because of that.

You’re just going to fuck everything up if you don’t get your shit together. Than means lifting, dropping the body fat, and rewriting your fucked up mental models.

Your wife will go back to her old ways quickly. She’s searching for safety right now and see that in your (beta bux).

Don’t do it... work on yourself for a couple of years.

[–]An_Actual_Politician1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Those women who didnt want to fuck you didnt want to fuck you because they're lining you up to be the same kind of blue pill beta provider that you currently want to jettison.

I used to get that treatment. Now that I've applied RP, embraced lifting and present myself as a HVM you know how many women have balked at getting fucked by me after I tell them I'm married? None. It's full steam ahead after I tell them flat out why I'm not concerned about it and why they shouldn't be either.

You need to become more attractive.

[–]scarmine3435 points36 points  (4 children) | Copy

Child: I want a puppy! I’ll walk it and feed it and everything, I swear!

[–]part_wolf18 points19 points  (3 children) | Copy

I know what kind of sex you like! I mean, I’m not going to give it to you, but I know!

[–]z2a1-93 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Lmao yup

[–]LazerSpin[S] -2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy

No, her point was that she'd give me what I want if I only came back and gave her "a chance to show how much she's grown as a person". That the house would be clean and there would be no fights/nagging, etc.

If anything during our relationship I was the one who started pulling away from her sexually because her nagging/fighting was killing my boner.

[–]part_wolf2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

You want kids. This woman isn’t capable of giving you that. What more information do you need to make this decision?

[–]elgath328 points29 points  (7 children) | Copy

My. 02

If you are fat and BP and actively choosing not to do anything to change that, you'll likely be unhappy whether you stay or go. Choosing to stay as a way to sidestep doing the work of fixing yourself will likely result in the same outcome as now, just delayed by a few years.

Be grateful for the burden of choice. You get to pick whatever path will leave you the happiest. Whether you succeed or fail at finding happiness, you at least have agency to make it happen for yourself. That's no burden at all.

[–]LazerSpin[S] 7 points8 points  (6 children) | Copy

Thanks man, that's a beautiful point. You're right, in my mind the attractive thing about staying (and getting all the bennies she promises) is not having to do any extra work myself.

I guess I'm just worried that if I do get out whether I'll have enough time to turn my ship around and get the family life I want or if this is my only choice (no matter how bad it is).

That said, I've kept thinking about this quote from Bill Burr over the past few years:

Realize that sleeping on a futon when you're 30 is not the worst thing. You know what's worse, sleeping in a king bed next to a wife you're not really in love with but for some reason you married, and you got a couple kids, and you got a job you hate. You'll be laying there fantasizing about sleeping on a futon

[–]UriahTheChosen12 points13 points  (4 children) | Copy

I’ve read thru some of the comments and it has become clear you are using this “fear” of running out of time for a family as an excuse. My father conceived me when he was 58. Stop making excuses. Stop tricking yourself into the path of least resistance.

Do you really feel as if you can’t get better? That you won’t do the work? If so, i say don’t take her back and ruin TWO lives. Work on yourself man and rise above this. You deserve better

[–]LazerSpin[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Fair point. If I may ask, how old was your mother and are the two of them still together?

You are right about "ruining two lives" part. If we're together it'll be even more difficult for me to find the energy to improve myself between having to spend time on work (mandatory) and her (also... mandatory). It doesn't look like it'll be anything more than a slow death for the relationship.

[–]UriahTheChosen4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

It doesn’t matter but my pops was 58 and my mom was 38. She had my brother when she was 40 and unfortunately no they are not together. They split up when i was in like 5th grade bro. They are on good terms and still talk to one another, they amicably ended the relationship and both went on to find new spouses.

[–]SailorAground1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Fair point. If I may ask, how old was your mother and are the two of them still together?

Why should that matter?

[–]UriahTheChosen4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

He’s looking for a way to keep hiding behind the excuses. If my mother was way younger than he could have gone on with the excuse of potentially not having a family and continued to live his shitty life guilt free.

Unfortunately for him, my mom was 38 when she had me and 40 when she had my brother. And its not uncommon for women around the wall to still bear child. He’s clutching for straws here so that he doesnt have to take responsibility for his actions.

[–]turbospeedsc7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Staying to do less work is a mistake, having plates is EASY compared to mantaining a LTR, with plates you go get a few drinks, jump in a hotel, fuck a couple of hours and everybody goes home just pure fun; no smelling farts, no bad humor, no problems, no mood swings, no money, no debts, no kids, no shark week.

For plates all you need is watch your weight, hit the gym, look decent, get some money for drinks and hotel.

[–]Rock_Granite17 points18 points  (7 children) | Copy

Don't do it. It's game over when she starts talking about about "you're hurting me". I don't care how great the bitch is. If you are in jail it's game over. That shit right there is toxic. She's gonna hold that over your head the whole time you are together.

[–]LazerSpin[S] 4 points5 points  (6 children) | Copy

When I told my dad about this he sympathized. His advice was to install a camera pointed at the front door "in case of theft" so I can have some coverage if that ever happens again.

I guess it only ever got that bad because I wasn't giving her the attention she craved due to being exhausted from work. I know that she never though I would react the way that I did to her (leave home immediately and a few weeks later file for divorce).

[–]Rock_Granite6 points7 points  (5 children) | Copy

What if she's doing it to you out of camera range? Jail is some serious shit. Who are the police gonna believe, you or her?

[–]LazerSpin[S] -1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy

I'm fairly sure she was not intending things that way. Now there's enough dread that I can set the rules, but the other issue is what happens when both of us start getting complacent again and she goes back to her old ways?

It's almost impossible to believe that she has truly and fundamentally changed herself over these past 6-8 months and yet that's what she claims and wants me to come back and live with her to "prove to me" that it's the case.

[–]Rock_Granite9 points10 points  (3 children) | Copy

Maybe she didn't intend it that way. But it is disturbing that she has that in her tool box. Your dread is only there until you agree to drop the divorce papers. Then yes, the clock starts ticking until the laziness kicks back in.

She's doing this thing called hysterical bonding. Happens all the time in dead bedrooms. Under the threat of divorce, the spouse pulls out all the stops to try to save the marriage.... for a while. Then reverts back to the way they were before the divorce threat.

If it weren't for the "you are hurting me" thing. I would have said give it a chance. But I'm sorry, it's game over when she starts bringing in domestic violence into the picture. Next argument she'll be telling all her friends and family about how abusive you are. Then the argument after that it's a call to the police.

It is a difficult situation.

[–]LazerSpin[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

The other thing she's mentioned several times (in English, we usually speak another language domestically) is "emotional abuse" and that I'm too controlling. This may be very beta of me to say, but I can see how some aspects of my approach are controlling, especially around money because she almost never had her own reliable income. The "emotional abuse" part is absolute BS unless switching from DEERing to ignoring her hysterics falls under that category.

We also tried something similar a few years ago. Had a long talk, she promised to get better, but eventually both of us got lazy and things drifted back into their familiar patterns. I brought this up already, but she said that now she's a different person who realizes she needs to be more independent (not only relying on me for validation, etc), but I guess that's just not enough at this point.

I guess your post is pretty clear - you don't see anything there for me to return to.

[–]SailorAground1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

but I can see how some aspects of my approach are controlling, especially around money because she almost never had her own reliable income. The "emotional abuse" part is absolute BS unless switching from DEERing to ignoring her hysterics falls under that category.

Stop, just stop. It's look you're looking for a reason to run back inside an empty burning building. If you are going to be this much of a coward, stop the conversation now and run back to your wife. You're literally burning daylight.

Had a long talk, she promised to get better, but eventually both of us got lazy and things drifted back into their familiar patterns. I brought this up already, but she said that now she's a different person who realizes she needs to be more independent (not only relying on me for validation, etc), but I guess that's just not enough at this point.

They all do this. My ex did it and still does. You need to look at her actions and stop listening to her words. She is saying whatever she can to get you back under control and keep her betabux flowing. She's already at the point where 90% of her eggs are gone and conception will be difficult and she knows it. By the time you get back together, she'll probably be 34-35 and at the point where you risk serious defects like Downs Syndrome, Autism, and physical deformities. You staying with her for kids is literally scraping the bottom of the barrel.

You have a golden opportunity to unfuck your life and find a hotter, younger mother of your children. Then again, you can remain a coward.

[–]LazerSpin[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This divorce made me realize how much of a coward I am. For the longest time I was panicked she would show up at my new place un announced, start banging on the door and making a scene. I avoided contacting her for months (and she didn't bother reaching out herself) because I was anxious over what she would say/react.

I guess it boils down to two things:

  • Can I "fix" myself during the relatively short "hysterical bonding" phase? No, unlikely.

  • Even if I could fix myself, is there anything worth saving? Only a relationship that gave me enough to class itself as a marriage (some house comforts, fairly liberal access to sex/anal with the requisite complaints) with minimal investment from me. i.e. If I do the work I should be able to find something better.

[–]Skiffbug17 points18 points  (17 children) | Copy

FFS, how is this even a choice: a) Fulfil my potential as a man and push myself to be better than I am today, or

b) Go back to my bitch wife on vague promises of sex and household bliss so she can continue living without needing a job.

Are you really considering the easy option? There is no clearer Bluepill or Redpill choice here...

Edit:weird Portuguese word creeped in

[–]betatest-in-progress7 points8 points  (10 children) | Copy

> I wish I just kept being beta so she'd dump me instead of me dumping her.

No you don't. You'd feel even worse.

If I were in your shoes, I'd keep her on the hook with a maybe. Take time to read the side bar, work on yourself. You admitted you are fat and BP. So fix it. Work on yourself. Be all you can be. Only then consider her offer.

> [...] but I don't know if I'm up to the effort that would take (I'm kind of a pussy).

The absolute beauty of being human is that *how you feel doesn't matter* unless you let it. You can *choose* to be up to the task. Dip your toes in: read NMMNG, do the exercises, post a weekly OYS. Do it for... Iunno. A month?

The absolute worst thing that happens is that you quit. Then you're back to now.

[–]LazerSpin[S] -1 points0 points  (9 children) | Copy

Only then consider her offer.

Her offer is not going to be on the table forever. If I keep feeding her "maybes" then she'll get fed up eventually. I can come back to live with her at my place for some weeks or months and have her demonstrate how much she has changed in this time.

It's tempting to do this, enjoy the hot sex and hot meals, and then push to finish the divorce regardless. "Kid trap" aside, I don't know if I'd be setting myself up for even more emotional pain if I did that, though.

You can choose to be up to the task

Thanks man, as simple as this is it's a beautiful thing to read. I really wish work wouldn't take so much out of me. It often feels like I'm spending all my energy to just keep my head above the water. On top of this my T is at the absolute lowest end of the "healthy" range for my age. T-levels aren't everything and maybe getting my BMI down will help, but I'm not sure my approach to life will ever change.

[–]betatest-in-progress6 points7 points  (8 children) | Copy

T-levels aren't everything and maybe getting my BMI down will help

T levels are directly impacted by fat mass. Lose weight, gain T. I recommend a keto style diet, if you can swing it. Work your way up to OMAD. I've never felt so clear and energized as when I've gone ~24 hours without food.

but I'm not sure my approach to life will ever change.

Again. You choose. You are only a victim of your choices. You will have to choose over and over again. Every day, even every hour. And forgive yourself, too. The past is there, immutable. You can't change it. Instead of beating yourself up for where you've been, choose to learn from it. The future? You can choose that.

I have here in my hand a Red Pill and a Blue Pill. You get to choose.

[–]HighTesticles3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

+1 for keto and it's not even close. Fat is fuel. Carbs are nitrous. Cut carbs and and eat within an 8 hour window and you can literally eat as much of whatever else you want and lose weight without even exercising. I've done it.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Cut carbs and and eat within an 8 hour window and you can literally eat as much of whatever else you want and lose weight without even exercising.

I agree intermittent fasting works. Last time I bulked, I put on 19 pounds. I used intermittent fasting to lose 10 of it when I cut - 2 pounds a week for 5 weeks... my easiest cut ever. I don’t agree about the Keto part, but I’m usually in the minority here on that. I view it as just another diet fad. When I did that 10 pound cut, I just made sure I had enough protein to keep the muscle I put on, and I cut out sugar.

Carbs are not bad. Complex carbs like potatoes and Ezekiel bread provide a lot of fiber, which makes you feel full.. Plus, it’s a great source of energy. People tend to lump carbs all into one category, but there are good carbs and bad carbs. Good carbs will help you lose weight. That’s my experience....

[–]LazerSpin[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

Thanks for that. I'll definitely have to get my BMI down to healthy range before I can consider things like TRT.

Speaking of choices the only thing I regret is not getting her pregnant when she first moved here. She would have been too exhausted to nag (as much) and she wouldn't have to find a job (we didn't need the money, but I wanted her occupied and she failed to do that). I guess now it's too late and if I want kids I'll have to gamble on finding another willing and young enough woman to do it with (who BTW might have her OWN kids already).

[–]tspitsatgp2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Too exhausted to nag... I don’t even know where to start with that, but it’s very revealing of your flawed thinking patterns. Lol, too exhausted to nag. Damn boy, go have yourself a couple of kids with her and report back to us in a few years.

[–]LazerSpin[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I take it from that you'r take is that early kids would not have improved the situation, but only made it worse? Gotcha, at least that's a relief to hear.

[–]tspitsatgp2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Most guys fall off the wagon when the kids arrive because of a lot of reasons. It’s pivotal time. It’s highly unlikely that this would have played out the way you imagine it.

[–]betatest-in-progress1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Make a plan. Execute. I expect to see your OYS post in the next 12 hours.

STFU. Lift. Read the sidebar.

[–]NeoTheJuanDJ1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

l If you got her pregnant, you would be wishing you were in the position you are right now, today, instead. You have an opportunity to walk, scotch-free, a couple sheets signed, no strings, done, and on to a life of abundance. That life: you have no fucking clue what it feels, tastes, sounds, and looks like. You cannot possibly fathom the possibilities, once you have realized your potential value, how much time and potential you actually have, changed your mind about yourself, created a vision for what YOU want in life and done the work to achieve it. Right now, you are an inland animal, feeding off dead and decayed fish, denying the existence of the ocean and that it could ever be better, that there could ever be an abundance of fish, three times the size and weight with minimal scars and rot, and fresh, delicious meat. How do you know? You cant so stfu because you don’t know. Your wife nagged you because you were a faggot and her instincts were telling her so. If it wasn’t your wife nagging, it would have been another girl. The problem is you. The problem is your mental. Which is exactly why if you were to get back with your wife, or even into a relationship with a new chick, you would re-enter the exact same issues you were facing with your wife before. The problem is you. Forget about kids. Your biggest concern is raising your value and fixing your mental models. You have no confidence because you aren’t out there realizing your potential. The only way you do that is to test yourself. Create a vision, read the sidebar, stfu, lift, and start trying. Lose bf, gain muscle, save some cash, approach some women, listen to audiobooks and read the sidebar, fucking brainwash yourself into a new mental model because with the current one you have, you will NEVER accomplish anything of worth. You have so much time, you have a wealth of information, here, on the sidebar and other podcasts/ readings, etc. You’ve victim puked enough. Quit sulking faggot. This is pathetic. Get your shit together.

[–]Smuggler-Tuek6 points7 points  (12 children) | Copy

I don’t know if I’m up to the effort it would take

Bail on this and all future relationships. You’re fucked if you think there’s any road from here that isn’t a personal crucible of self discovery and reformation.

[–]LazerSpin[S] 0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy

You echo what others have posted: creating a new family or restoring this one will both take a lot of work. The only other deciding factor is having kids (which I personally want) even though it's hard to imagine my current wife as a mother (but who knows, right?).

[–]Smuggler-Tuek4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

It seems to me you lack abundance mentality if you are willing to stay with a chick for the potential to have children with even though you also admit it’s hard to imagine her as a mother. If you stay the road will be longer than finding someone new (don’t fool yourself that road will be long too). It’s one of the iron rules that it’s always easier to start a new relationship than to salvage a shitty one.

Very seriously: sidebar and lift.

[–]SepeanRed Beret2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

it's hard to imagine my current wife as a mother (but who knows, right?).

This is a big one. Why the fuck are you considering her when you want a family and don’t think she’ll be a good mother?

Parenting is hard, man. If she’s not empathic, neat and hardworking already (with people and projects she cares about, don’t use how she treats you as a metric) things are going to go south real bad when there are kids in the picture.

Read this https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/37l2q0/when_to_next_your_wife/

[–]LazerSpin[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

She's a lot like I am right now. Hard worker and detail-oriented when a project catches her interest, but struggles with the routine. The key difference is if my heart's not in something then I drag my feet on starting it, but finish it very well. She does it in time, but does a slap-dash job.

Thanks for that link BTW, very good stuff. Too bad I'm only reading this now and didn't start working to change the direction of this stuff two years or so back when it could have made a difference to save this marriage.

[–]Balls_Wellington_Main Event + Coronavirus2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy

For the love of fuck, don't have kids if you are scared of work.

To be a halfway decent parent you have to change up your whole life. You have to fix all sorts of shit about yourself to keep your kid from picking it up. Early morning wakeups are mandatory, because the kid doesn't give a shit about your schedule. You will be shit on weekly. Your kid will push you to the limits of your endurance and patience.

And you want the easy path to it? Because you are a pussy? Do yourself a favor and stay child free.

[–]so_woke_da_wookie2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

What in the absolute fuck is going on.

This guy thinks his eggs are going off.

Oh no, wait...

107 comments, MRP just got mega-trolled. She couldn't even conceal her gender and 'she' comes with the spreadsheets. Hidden in plain sight.

We're retarded.

[–]LazerSpin[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Not my "eggs", no, but the challenge of finding and marrying a woman young enough to have healthy kids when I'm already 35.

I mean, if you really don't believe me I can post a pic of my hairy balls with a timestamp, but I think that's over the line.

[–]so_woke_da_wookie2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

You haven’t a clue.

Lifting and STFUing will solve most of your problems.

Read: https://therationalmale.com/2011/09/08/rooting-through-garbage/

[–]Chump_No_More0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Late to the party... glad to see somebody beat me to it.

Rule #7 is one of my favorites. Nothing screams scarcity and lack of frame like a guy who takes an ex back.

Just. Don't. Do. It. Ever.

[–]so_woke_da_wookie0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The scarcity mindset is normalized in otherwise capable men.

I am not implying that the Poster is either capable or normal.

He is 35 and oblivious to how sperm works.

[–]LazerSpin[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I just know that if I don't have kids then eventually it'll be too late and I'll forever regret it.

As for work, I understand they will require work, but I always thought it's a different kind of emotional labor than with a spouse.

[–]Balls_Wellington_Main Event + Coronavirus0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's different, but it is compounding. Everything hard about your relationship will get harder.

There's no breaks any more. No hangover Sundays where you sleep until noon and watch TV in your underwear. That kid doesn't give a fuck if you are sick, tired, hungover, whatever. He will wake up at the ass crack of dawn and expect food and care, and you're gonna give it to him.

It's rewarding as all hell, but it'll stress your relationships. You better be tight going in, if you aren't...wait. you can have kids at 40, I know a couple that is doing fine with it.

[–]Tiway224 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy

Awww she promised no more fights on her powerpoint presentation! How sweet!

Makes you wonder why she was nagging and causing fights while you were together, doesn’t it?

The answer is: - Absolutely do not get back with her. You left for a reason. - Get into shape. Stop being fat. - Date some new hotties, which the former will help with.

If you’re thinking that dating isn’t for you and that your ex wife is your best option I think you need a reality check.

[–]LazerSpin[S] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

Thanks man, I appreciate the perspective.

FWIW she nagged because she work was killing me and I wasn't giving her enough attention during the week. Or she was bored. Or frustrated at her own lack of progress in a new country. Those are the only things I can think of. Thankfully I found a new job soon after filing for divorce and between that and moving out my stress levels have been down immensely.

[–]Tiway222 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

I bet they have. Do what’s best for yourself. And it’s okay to be alone for a while.

Women will not be on their best behavior when they know you won’t leave - now that she understands that you can/will, she’s trying to say she will be on her best behavior. See how conditional she is?

[–]LazerSpin[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I do. When she first floated the idea of me coming back she said sex was off the table because we were separated for so long (about 6 months living separately). After our first makeout session and me still being non-committal she said all kinds of sex was now on the table.

The really funny thing is that, in a way, I've never felt lonelier than when I was married. Here was another person and while we had good weekends together during the week it was almost like a room mate with benefits? Maybe I felt this way because I was always hoping she'd offer emotional support (which I now know was a mistake) and I don't have a male support network of my own.

[–]Tiway221 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

So she uses sex as a bargaining chip and decides her behavior based on what exactly?

I think you can do a lot better man. A lot. Don’t stay with someone just because they’re available. Be with someone you are passionate for!

[–]LazerSpin[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Don’t stay with someone just because they’re available

The conversations here make me realize that the primary reason I'm hesitant to break things off is because how little I was able to invest in the relationship and still get some attributes of family life + bareback sex. The hesitation is not because of love. I can easily say that I've never loved her; just liked her. I married her because that was the easiest thing to do (going with the flow) of what my parents suggested. If she and I were just dating then I would have broken up with her a long time ago despite getting sex.

I hope I find someone with whom I can start a family, but I'd be wary of being passionate for them. That doesn't sound like the RP approach (not that I'm criticising).

[–]SepeanRed Beret5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy

Ignore her promises. Women will rewrite the rules anytime they see fit, what she says is entirely irrelevant. And this is clearly a beta bucks proposition - which is why you get power point presentations instead of sex.

The only thing that matters is your SMV and frame. That makes you attractive and makes her naturally behave the way you want, and it also gives you the leverage and determination to enforce your boundaries as necessary.

Another thing to note here, at the level of SMV you had, she would rather divorce you than comply. It would probably be the same with any other woman. This is how fucked up you are.

I was there too, and now she drops by when I’m showering to suck my dick a bit.

This whole thing with your wife and her wanting back, it is just background noise. The only thing that matters is how alpha you are. If you’re alpha, her or some other girl will treat you well. If you’re not, her or some other girl will treat you like shit.

[–]helaughsinhidden2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

How is this not the top comment? You, u/LazerSpin are and always were the problem here. If you knew how to be stoic, DARE, or at least STFU you would have never had a fight with her a day in your life.

Should you leave her? Probably because you will trust the fate of the relationship on her promises to be a good wife that are as good as words written on a sandy beach. Then you will "kick the can down the road" to another woman who will audition for wife, realize you're the bitch, and repeat.

Instead. Do some work. Read the sidebar posts, do burpees till you collapse, join a gym when they reopen, and start to post in OYS.

[–]LazerSpin[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I guess it boils down to whether I'll have the time to get myself on a high enough level to maintain a healthy relationship while still married to her or if there's no way I'll manage this with my current state of mind if we remain married.

Like I mentioned in other comments this relationship has been very comfortable. Minimum work from me for someone who (kind of) takes care of the house and some pussy when I want it. It's certainly not the case that conversations were ever stimulating (makeup, Kardashians and the British Royals are all she was interested in)

[–]helaughsinhidden1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Become the best version of yourself and all your options are better.

[–]KoolAidMan798012 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.

Youre a fat, lazy, put no effort into anything pussy that wants a bunch of other guys to make a decision for you. Should I stay? Should I go? How about fuck you. Youre 35 yo and youve probably never put effort or tried at anything. Are you surprised you ended up with a low effort wife when you yourself are a lazy piece of shit?

But...but I wanna have kids. Heres a quick answer for you: DON’T. You cant be bothered to put the effort in to fix yourself and better your life. What the hell would you do to an innocent child? Do you think kids are easy and raise themselves? No they require time, energy, and effort. Things that you know zero about.

[–]wkndatbernardus4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy

First off, why the hell are you allowing her to live in YOUR house?!?! If you want to start larping as a man with a sack; kick her out, finalize the div, and then decide if you still want her in your life. In the meantime, start exercising, fatty mcbutterpants, because even if you take her back (obviously, not legally), she'll lose respect for you in the long run if you aren't in shape.

[–]LazerSpin[S] -2 points-1 points  (3 children) | Copy

She's in my house because she has no job, no money, no family/friends in this country and thus no place to go. Kicking her out would have been an easy court win for her. Thankfully rental prices are now falling so I'm gently pushing her towards searching for her own place finally.

No matter my FOMO/dying alone/never having kids fears the only solution that actually feels good is finalizing the div and then continuing communication with her (if she even wants that). I can't shake the feeling that trying to rebuild things after 8 months apart is just too weird.

[–]part_wolf4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

You’re such a nice guy.

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Hey, watch the insults bro.

[–]part_wolf1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Reporting you to the mods for tone policing.

[–]FoxShitNasty834 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Last time I saw her she gave a power point presentation on why I should do this. Her arguments were that divorce could still continue, she knew the kind of sex I liked, she promised no more fights and that she'd clean and cook.

Please please do you own power point presentation on how she can fulfill YOUR requirements. make it clear this is a competition with your other girlfriends and you are the prize.

Edit: in the mean time STFU, Lift and sort your MAP and mission

[–]Octellius5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

You will never do better. There. Why? Because you got what you got based on who you are, an underachiever. So even if you leave her you just find another girl to disappoint.

Want women to be disgusted by you? Just be a slovenly, lazy, underachieving, underwhelming weakling.

So, what can you change? Other people or yourself?

I have a serious question for you. If you had a daughter would you think she has done well to date someone like her dad? No? If you had a son, would you suggest he follow your lead in life? No?

Your life is you. Try to make it something worth being proud of.

Read the rational male. If she isn't attracted to you then she is fucking you for cash. Attraction is never negotiated. The PowerPoint is her convincing herself why she should should stay on your payroll. Gross. I'd complete the divorce but keep her around until you get your lifts sorted and start looking for plates, she will fail, but you can use her to practice game and toying with women.

[–]LazerSpin[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

A long time ago I was part of a small group of students who were getting private tutoring for the SAT. That guy (asian dude in finance) called me (in private) an underperforming asset. That stuck with me. He wasn't calling me dumb/bad, just not pulling my weight. Some 20 years later I'm still thinking about those words because I don't know how to fix myself. Best I can come up with is TRT or anti-depression meds, but those seem like band-aids at best.

I would like to keep her around, but something tells me that if she were to move out (a relief because right now she's living rent-free at a place I own) then she'd cut communication to focus on finding a new provider. She may be a woman, but she still wants to survive.

[–]part_wolf4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

Iron Rule of Tomassi #7

It is always time and effort better spent developing new, fresh, prospective women than it will ever be in attempting to reconstruct a failed relationship. Never root through the trash once the garbage has been dragged to the curb. You get messy, your neighbors see you do it, and what you thought was worth digging for is never as valuable as you thought it was.

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

This should be the top comment, I have no idea why faggots are elaborating.

Its never worth it.

[–]part_wolf1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

In fairness, the helicopter thing was a really good metaphor.

[–]rightsided3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

Your problem is yourself. You are fat, lazy, and unattractive and this is the reason for your FOMO. You know a 'better' woman isn't going to be attracted to you for your looks. Sidebar, lift, STFU. Could it be any more simple?

[–]LazerSpin[S] -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

Sidebar, lift, STFU

That goes without saying. The real issue is whether I ditch the wife for good to start a new relationship or not.

[–]MisfitPL94 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

NO - the real issue is whether or not your willing to fix yourself. The hardest part of the Red Pill is understanding and accepting that it is YOUR FAULT. You got complacent, You got fat, you didnt understand the way a woman works/emotions etc....

[–]slappysq3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Tell your wife she can come over (a) after you finalize the divorce and (b) only on nights when she brings her hot friend into bed too and (c) you are going to fuck the hot friend and anyone else you want.

[–]LazerSpin[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

Well. Goes without saying that I'd fuck her even after divorce is finalized, but of course she announced she'd go NC then (which I'm fine with, I haven't missed her so much in the 6-8 months we've been apart).

[–]johnmic073 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy

You need to get less fat and take the red pill regardless of what you choose. If you divorce, you'll enjoy it a lot now with red pill. If you go back to her, you'll do better with red pill instead of blue. It seems like you've been reading, but the physical part of red pill is the problem. Is it really that hard to go to the gym three times a week and throw out your ice cream?

It seems like you have a really hard time making decisions. I guess if you're really on the fence, you could tell your wife that you're open to discussing getting back together but you'll need time to think about it.

Dude. Just improve yourself. Commit. Watch some motivational YouTube videos or something.

[–]LazerSpin[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

go to the gym three times a week and throw out your ice cream

I sometimes feel like getting in shape will be the hardest thing I'll ever do in my life. Using food as a crutch and way to relieve stress makes kicking that habit much harder. However I know I don't have any other choice because, outside of appearance, health problems like diabetes will eventually get me.

Unfortunately we both "sat" on this issue for 8 months now. I did because I didn't want to deal with it and she did because she's living in a place where all the bills are paid for and has nothing to lose by waiting. I can go back to try and enjoy some hysterical bonding, but it seems like it'll be just to get some last minute sex out the door because I doubt I'm strong enough to keep that flame alive or that it'll make the divorce process more favorable.

[–]johnmic072 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

I have to respect how honest you are with where you're at, which is at least an important first step. Maybe try exercise as a stress release? Shooting guns is also a good stress release.

[–]LazerSpin[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I really did come here for advice because I have no one else to turn to IRL and my own navel gazing/anxiety over the divorce are preventing me from thinking clearly.

I re-started compound lifts last year, I'm out walking every other day now and I'd love to pick up trap shooting after the divorce. I don't know why it's so hard to be confident in my decision to divorce. Maybe it's because my wife is asking me to question it yet again after I made it twice before (served her papers and sent an email about a month ago) that she has me second guessing myself.

I also realize what a blank slate I am. Not boring per say (I like and can talk about art, travel, and the world) but the kind of guy who has nothing going on on the weekends. I do have to reinvent myself and I don't know how I'll get the energy to do that.

[–]johnmic071 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

maybe you should go take a trip somewhere to clear your mind? Airline tickets are pretty cheap right now.

[–]Over60_FireTempered3Red Beret2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Decision time for you. The fact that you are posting is a good sign that you have evolved to the "you know what you don't know" stage.

Here's something for you from my past, and my personal experience:

Torn Shirt Theory:

Once you tear a shirt so many times and mend it so many times, it will never be something you want to wear in public again. Even the biggest tear can be mended, but is it worth it?

[–]LazerSpin[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Good point. Especially when I wasn't attached too much to the shirt to begin with. It was just comfortable and the easiest thing to wear and I had to do little work in maintaining it.

[–]Over60_FireTempered3Red Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yet your post is Titled:

Wife wants me to take her back and I'm torn.

If you....

wasn't attached too much to the shirt to begin with. It was just comfortable and the easiest thing to wear and I had to do little work in maintaining it.

...then you got exactly what you worked for.

At some point you might come to the conclusion that this whole crapper is on you. Failing to lead, lazy, take the easy way, faggot. Until you do "own your shit" you are doomed to beta hell. BTW, don't take offence, I'm pulling my punches here and being nice to you.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

The divorce process has not been combative, but slow

I stopped reading here because I k ow BS is to follow

It doesn’t take 2 years to have a divorce in a non-combative filing / I don’t care what state you live in.

What is your height/weight, lifts, Sidebar? I suspect you are a fat beta. If you had done any work whatsoever, it’s pretty damn easy to get a woman to commit to marriage. In any case, the fact that’s your goal speaks volumes about your lack of abundance. You should be smashing pussy for 10-15 more years- spinning a few plates at any given time.

It’s a fallacy that if you don’t have kids, you will die alone and miserable.

[–]Praexology2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

There are two options moving forward.

1) Decide for yourself that you will improve for yourself. You will succeed and fail but it will all be forward facing. The 'you' now will die, because the you now sucks bad enough that YOU won't even hedge a bet him. No offense.

2) Resign back to a life you were dissatisfied with. Maybe with a wife who will love you for hopefully another 45 years even though she had some problems after her first 6. Maybe not.

But thats up to you. Some advice though: Men who dont choose, choose to resign.

[–]tspitsatgp2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

You have a defeatist attitude. Problem number 1. Problem number 2 is that you haven’t hit rock bottom yet and you seem like the sort of person that had to hit rock bottom before you stop making excuses. At the moment you are just half-assing life.

You can either do the work now or do the work later (once you actually realise just how fucking unhappy you are with your miserable existence) or you can never do the work like so many countless others.

It’s up to you. Just realise that it is a choice.

[–]_-resonance-_2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

She will be able to smell if you stay with her because of your lack of options, so even if you stay, you are going to need to game up. Either way, you would need to game up, so don’t “stay” thinking it’s the best you can do. This strategy will backfire because either she’ll smell your desperation or if not, she will observe it. So either way you are going to need to improve yourself.

If you decide to stay, you better be confident that you’d be able to pull a better replacement if she were decide to change her mind again. Otherwise it’s all for nothing.

[–]LazerSpin[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

It would be nice to at least dip my toe in for an extended weekend or two of this promised "everything on the table, just come back to me" sex. I can't shake the feeling that she'll just be more upset when I eventually say "thanks, you tried, but it wasn't enough/I still want to divorce".

[–]_-resonance-_0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Are you able to fuck her like a whore without letting your emotions get in the way?

And then continuing to do that? Without caring if (when) she pulls away to test you? How we deal with their withdrawals says more about us and our intentions than it does about them.

[–]_-resonance-_0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

correction: I misread the end of your comment. If the EOTTJCBTMtm sex in no way would change your opinion of the divorce, why bother? But wait, if you have never had this kind of sex before then you are entering into a whole new ballgame. As you continue to increase your value as a masculine force, her sex would continue to be at that level at which point you may *actually want to reconsider the divorce.

Why not consider divorce your failure for not delivering her with life-shattering orgasms? It’s never too late to start, or at least start caring. Be a gentleman. If it’s too late and you can’t win her over with BDE, then keep working at it and maybe a future girlfriend will get some from you and want to keep fucking forever like her life depends on it. I can’t live any other way. Things may get dicey at times but fire is hot.

[–]MRPFag2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Dont do it. I did it in 2016. Jumped back in 7 months later, 18 months of pure misery before I left again anyway. Not worth it, no matter what she says

[–]LazerSpin[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Did you also walk out after filing/threatening divorce and then see her hysterical bonding attempts? Was the "pure misery" her quickly returning to her old ways or just the emotional pain of uncertainty?

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

No.

Just no.

[–]WolfofAllStreetz2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Dude, you’re weak. You don’t even write about wanting to fix that. Go back to your shitty wife and fat life since you lack the motivation to fix your shitty situation.

Shocked you haven’t been ripped apart here.

[–]LazerSpin[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

I kind of am being torn apart :)

I didn't write about steps I've taken to fix them because they didn't really appear material to the fundamental question: do I go through with the divorce in its current state or not.

Reading peoples' replies I'm starting to figure out that the biggest reason I liked out relationship is because it was very comfortable for me. The only real effort I put in (besides planning trips for the both of us) is putting up with her nagging/fights. She took care of the house/cooking as best as she could. She put out as best as she could.

She got a lot in exchange, of course, and if she was smarter then we'd still be married.

[–]NeoTheJuanDJ2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

If you got her pregnant, you would be wishing you were in the position you are right now, today, instead. You have an opportunity to walk, scotch-free, a couple sheets signed, no strings, done, and on to a life of abundance. That life: you have no fucking clue what it feels, tastes, sounds, and looks like. You cannot possibly fathom the possibilities, once you have realized your potential value, how much time and potential you actually have, changed your mind about yourself, created a vision for what YOU want in life and done the work to achieve it. Right now, you are an inland animal, feeding off dead and decayed fish, denying the existence of the ocean and that it could ever be better, that there could ever be an abundance of fish, three times the size and weight with minimal scars and rot, and fresh, delicious meat. How do you know? You cant so stfu because you don’t know. Your wife nagged you because you were a faggot and her instincts were telling her so. If it wasn’t your wife nagging, it would have been another girl. The problem is you. The problem is your mental. Which is exactly why if you were to get back with your wife, or even into a relationship with a new chick, you would re-enter the exact same issues you were facing with your wife before. The problem is you. Forget about kids. Your biggest concern is raising your value and fixing your mental models. You have no confidence because you aren’t out there realizing your potential. The only way you do that is to test yourself. Create a vision, read the sidebar, stfu, lift, and start trying. Lose bf, gain muscle, save some cash, approach some women, listen to audiobooks and read the sidebar, fucking brainwash yourself into a new mental model because with the current one you have, you will NEVER accomplish anything of worth. You have so much time, you have a wealth of information, here, on the sidebar and other podcasts/ readings, etc. You’ve victim puked enough. Quit sulking faggot. This is pathetic. Get your shit together.

[–]LazerSpin[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I agree that I have a lot of work to do on myself and I want to do that work. For example I'm already lifting, but a 325lb squat doesn't really matter when I have a BMI of 32%.

The real question is if I can ride the hysterical bonding that's going on now to self improve enough that I can "save" this marriage. The more I read replies here the more I realize the answer is probably "no" because I'd have to spend energy on work, on myself and on maintaining a shaken marriage. Ultimately the question here is not whether to take the RP, but whether to stay in my current marriage.

[–]NeoTheJuanDJ1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The RP would be to leave your wife. The BP would be to assume there’s anything for you left in that shit show relationship you had with your wife. You are clinging to your old BP beliefs. The beta inside of you wants to save the marriage. The beta inside of you thinks that saving the marriage is on you. That’s it’s your responsibility. Commitment is a woman’s responsibility. Not yours. Let her convince you to stay. But she won’t. She won’t try to convince you to stay because you are low value. Why would she fight for that? Would you? You’re not in a position to hold leverage where dread is effective, where your frame she wants to fall into. It’s over. Get your wife and the thought of saving that out of your head. The marriage is done, it’s not on you to save. Setting covert contracts, hoping “she sees this bro” and doing anything to salvage what you had won’t happen. It’s done. Learn your lesson and move on. The hysterical bonding is her realizing her decaying value is progressing and steadfast. She doesn’t have much time and she is aware of this. She realizes you still have potential to raise your value, in which she no longer has even if she tried. For her it’s over. There are no better options that she has on rotation. At least, not currently. This is why she is trying to get you back and lock you down before the ship takes off for good. Understand that if you get back with her, you would be fulfilling her strategy, you would enter her frame. You would be a pawn in her game. A means to accomplish temporary security. Nothing more. The second you step foot back in that door, the sex would go back to non-existent, she would go back to disrespecting you, and you couldn’t do shit anyways because you’re STILL a fat, BP, beta shlub with oneitis out the ass and is simply unwilling to grow/change. No shit she’s going to treat you like the LV guy you are. Is that what you want? If you could plan your life out the way you want it, Is that the life you want to lead? I’m not telling you to do anything, because I’m the end it’s all up to you anyways. Take it or leave it.

[–]Tambamwham1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Wanna know what my experience and gut tells me? This is run of the mill. There’s nothing unique happening here. You’re wife started treating you like shit because she wasn’t attracted to you and didn’t respect you. There was also another man involved. Guaranteed. And I’m willing to bet she was all for the divorce at the start or Atleast didn’t seem too bothered by it. At one point that changed pretty quickly. I get that right? Take a guess why that is. I promise it ain’t because she realized she’s in love with you.

[–]LazerSpin[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

You’re wife started treating you like shit because she wasn’t attracted to you and didn’t respect you

The only thing that doesn't add up is that she was the one who wanted sex while her behavior was killing my attraction to her. Maybe she was causing fights to get me to fuck her. She was also never stingy with sex or played games with it.

At one point that changed pretty quickly

I doubt a man was involved during our marriage (but I'd have no way to check). She probably started dating after I left the home and realized that no one wanted to jump into an LTR with her. With Corona at the door she realized that a safe provider (me) is a good choice and decided to get me back any way she can.

What fucks with me is how often she says she loves me, but damn, you just don't start screaming/fighting with your partner if you really love them, do you?

[–]Tambamwham1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Bud. This isn’t complicated. This follows the same basic pattern as all cheating women. Same behaviors. Even the moves she made toward possible false dv Charges. She was interested in another guy, you were in the way so you got the wrath, now he’s out of picture and she’s crawling back. If you think she dated a guy she met after you filed then you’d be wrong. He was already on deck. And yes you could tell her to hand over her phone and piece together yourself if you’d like.

How long was it from the day you filed until she started asking for you back?

[–]LazerSpin[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Meaning your take is that the fights were her way of killing my sexual energy so she'd have more to spend on the other guy? She finally got me out of the picture, but now that he has moved on she's back.

Would be nice to take her out for a final ride, but I'm not sure that effort is worth it since I do plan on finishing the divorce.

[–]JimboNumberz1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Dude is a pussy just let him puss out if he wants

Help somebody who wants help

I will give him that at least he’s a self aware pussy

My sad advice is get back with her, have the kids you want, still work on yourself in your slow way. Some self improvement may keep your ex honest in her agreement

Real advice is to man up and become the man you were meant to be. You dont have to worry about finding the right person in the right timeframe. You have to worry about becoming the right person

[–]Massive-Plate1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

If you don't lift and get in shape, your eventual BP ways will open the door for LTR issues down the road.

Aka, she will get bored of you, fights will start, maybe affairs, etc.

Don't be purple pilled, go full red and lead yourself and future spouse.

This woman may, or may not be the one for you, but without strong leadership from you.... she definitely isn't.

[–]RPWolfAlpha_as_Wolf_2.01 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

tl:dr - I know I am fat, lazy and stupid. I know how to fix all three but am torn between the low hanging fruit of an equally fat, lazy and stupid wife or actually becoming a fucking man.

By all means, continue to be who you are and this time maybe you will get a DV charge. Kudos.

[–]so_woke_da_wookie1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

For extra points: get her pregnant then click and collect your DV charge.

Whowee, think of all that sweet alimony that OP gets to pay.

Make it Rain OP, make it rain.

[–]-Acta-Non-Verba-1 point2 points  (12 children) | Copy

Dude, we can't do your homework for you. People in the inter webs won't know what the right answer is. Only you will.

[–]LazerSpin[S] -1 points0 points  (11 children) | Copy

I get that. Ultimately I'm responsible for this decision. I feel really trapped and alone - that's why I made this post.

[–]-Acta-Non-Verba-2 points3 points  (10 children) | Copy

Well, it doesn't have to be all or nothing, right? You can do a trial reunion, see how it goes, and you'll be able to make a decision with better information later on. It sounds to me like the divorce is not final yet. Eventually you'll know if it's better to finalize it or not.

[–]LazerSpin[S] 2 points3 points  (9 children) | Copy

You're going to facepalm when you read this, but...

...I keep worrying how, if I go back, I'll get stuck again. Either she'll get pregnant or I'll get complacent and, at best, I'll be back at this within a year and at worst within a few years when alimony and other divorce expenses will be even higher and I'll be even older.

I'm scared if I keep the course I'll just never finding any amount of family life happiness again.

[–]-Acta-Non-Verba-3 points4 points  (8 children) | Copy

Well, if it's any consolation, you have cranked up the dread to 11. It might be the foundation of a better relationship. Or not.

The way I see it: My stay plan = my go plan. Either with my wife or with someone else, I want to improve myself, become more fit, become a better leader, handle my responsibilities better, and so on. You can keep working on becoming a better man while with her, and if things go bust, you take that improvement somewhere else.

Finding a healthy new relationship and making it work won't be easy. It will take work. Making the one you have right now a worthwhile one will also take work. Can't get around that. If you are going to have children with someone, sooner will be better than later.

Do you have basic incompatibility that make it so that pursuing something with your current spouse definitely a no-go?

[–]LazerSpin[S] 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy

If you are going to have children with someone, sooner will be better than later.

Part of my concern is that, if I don't have kids with her, then I might never have them.

Do you have basic incompatibility that make it so that pursuing something with your current spouse definitely a no-go

Only our history, her harpy behavior and my previous DEER attempts before I got fed up with the fighting and would just start ignoring her. About three years in she found incriminating messages between me and an ONS. I denied, timed moved on, but she voiced how much she regretted "letting me off easy". Sex was never amazing, but she never used it as a weapon or bargaining chip and I had oral/anal/kinky if I wanted it. She was almost more of a burden in family life, but never intentionally sabotaged me.

All that does make for a pretty low relationship bar, but reading some of the modern horror stories make me wonder if this is the best I can get from a white woman (albeit a European "import") in the USA. Nothing against other races, but if I go that route it means my kids won't be like me, but mixed.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy

About three years in she found incriminating messages between me and an ONS. I denied, timed moved on, but she voiced how much she regretted "letting me off easy".

Damn, I can’t believe you omitted this. This seals the fate of the relationship. She’s trying to draw you back in so she can fuck you over. Trust me. It will be an epic mistake. She already showed her hand with the domestic violence threat. Don’t be a dumbass and let her execute it.

[–]LazerSpin[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

I do worry about her apparent vindictiveness. I never gave her too much cash and always kept control over her spending ("financial abuse" as she later called it). Once when drunk she told me that if our situation was ever reversed (i.e. she made bank and I was stay-at-home) then she'd treat me exactly the same way. In my case I did all that to try and motivate her to find a damn job (as mistaken as that approach may be).

As for leaving things out - it wasn't intentional to try and save face. There was a lot to cover and I was just worried people wouldn't bother reading if there was too much text.

I'm thinking of dipping my toe in for a last hurrah of "hysterical bonding" sex, but I'm not sure if I'll be able to stay on top of that mechanical bull.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

T> I do worry about her apparent vindictiveness

You should. When you originally left, the event was her acting like you were abusing her. In 4 years on here and other pages, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen this domestic card being pulled and destroying men’s lives. Now, she’s had 2 years to think about ways she could screw You over.

It’s not worth the sex. That is scarcity thinking. Get in shape, build some frame, and slay all the pussy you want.

I have a feeling you already made up your mind before this post, so the ball was sore in motion.

You are free to do as you wish, but remember, I and others here were once you, and that makes it so easy to see the mistake you are about to make... and it all stems from scarcity.

[–]LazerSpin[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Just to clarify - we have been apart for about 8 months now.

I think you are right. Even if it's the most explosive/amazing sex ever it won't be worth having to go through the process of getting the divorce back on track. If I had a plate right now who was fine draining my balls whenever i thought of my ex-wife then my ex-wife's offer would have absolutely zero appeal.

[–]-Acta-Non-Verba-2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I was once considering taking a trip to Europe. I had the time, I had the money, and I had the way to get there. But I still hesitated. Finally, I told myself, "You know what? Just go. This chance might never present itself again. If I hate it, I'll come back in two weeks." I ended up staying 3 months and had a blast.

So try it for 2 weeks. If you hate it, you can always bail. If not, keep going for another 2 weeks.

Good luck to you.

[–]LazerSpin[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I hear you, man. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

[–]LazerSpin[S] 0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy

To give some post-separation context. She was quiet for months after having her initial panic. She justifies this as "wanting to give me time to cool off". After I re-engaged because I wanted to get the divorce finalized she started her push to have us get back together.

Initially sex was off the table (we were separated for months by that time). After I sent her an email explaining why things are over she said sex is on the table and I have "nothing to lose" by giving the marriage another shot because the divorce proceedings would still be there and the only way she can show me she has changed is if I come back and live with her for a few weeks.

Aside from gettin tricked into having a kid I also don't see a downside, but something inside me is making me incredibly reluctant to say "yes".

[–]sassboysamJr6 points7 points  (5 children) | Copy

Listen to your guts

[–]LazerSpin[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

The funny thing is that saying "no" is easy. I feel like it'll make a lot of the ambiguity and emotional pain going away.

I keep looking for reasons to say "yes" to her offer and to go back. All I can find in this category is the fear of becoming forever alone. Sure, the sex and home life are also good, but they are not front of mind or enough to outweigh the feeling in the pit of my stomach.

The only other problem is that I've quit other relationships because... I guess I was either lazy for how much work they would need or lacked confidence (what I described as commitment-phobe). I'm scared I'm making the same mistake again.

[–]sassboysamJr6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy

Bro hit the gym and get in shape and it’ll fix that confidence problem lol. Don’t just read the side bar but take action also. First thing first is getting in shape

[–]LazerSpin[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I have been hitting the gym and doing compound lifts. Unfortunately stress eating + alcohol + work eating up most of my mental energy means I still have a spare tire (~230-250 range).

[–]sassboysamJr1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Meditation is what u need, the sitting down and focusing on your breath one, and also the mental noting one. Look them up in the meditation subreddit

[–]LazerSpin[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you, I'll absolutely follow up on that. At a minimum that should quiet the anxiety and dread I feel because the past several weeks it has been relentless.

[–]pootaboo7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy

You’re going to get a lot comments saying you haven’t read the side bar and something along the lines of you’re a faggot who hasn’t read the side bar. All of these are true; however, you’re more likely to take offense and not really internalize anything.

You’re looking for validation not to get back together with her. You see BP doesn’t work, and this won’t work unless you put in the work, but that won’t be worth it. You’ll be miserable. Go start fresh with someone else, it’ll be much easier than repairing this.

Trust your gut more than anything. Side note, her “quiet period” was her fucking other dudes. If you pretend that you’re interested in her deal, but she has to tell you about who she banged, you’ll get a tickle truth about it, but not the full details.

[–]LazerSpin[S] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

I'm not offended by such comments (I haven't BSed anyone who told me as much here), it's just that they're not super helpful to the immediate matter at hand.

You’re looking for validation not to get back together with her.

Yes. Along with a slap on the ass and a "You can do it, champ". Or comments like "You'd be an idiot to pass this up because it doesn't sound like you'll get anything better."

her “quiet period” was her fucking other dudes

Yup and I guess she found none of my "level" or better who were offering commitment. To be fair, I fucked a few girls myself during this time and realized just how much work a new serious LTR would require. As long as we don't spill the beans to each other then I'm fine with this.

[–]turbospeedsc4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

There are tons of girls out there, but they wont fuck you unless you get lose weight, get social, have fun, have a interesting life, btw is the same thing you need to do have a decent relationship with your wife.

[–]LazerSpin[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I understand. It's almost like changing the way you eat when you first try to lose weight. Maintaining such a strict diet for the rest of your life sounds dreadful, but that's the only way forward that RP offers and I haven't found any better solutions for normal people.

[–]bsutansaltTRP Founding Father0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Go review the iron rules of tomassi and pay special attention to the one about rooting through the garbage.

Skip to 31:38 https://youtu.be/_VT54ETuLYE

[–]theunconquored0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I wish I just kept being beta

You did. That's the problem. Serving her with divorce papers isn't "RedPill" when you are clearly a weak pussy who is trapped in her frame, and who never bothered to get himself in shape to be the hawt guy she will submit to.

Divorce her. Or take her back. Either way, it doesn't matter. Your life and all of your relationships with women will look EXACTLY LIKE THIS if you don't take charge of yourself.

[–]gameoflibidos0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

She doesn't want you. She just doesn't want a job more.



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